ACOTAR: Amren Deep Dive - Angel, Serpent, Betrayer of the Inner Circle?

0:00 I could have sworn I saw great burning wings. A crown of incandescent light floated just above her, flaming a hair. She was a burning behemoth, raining fire in brimstone. This is biblical Angel of death. She's an Angel of death. So next weekend obviously is the New York City Marathon, and we record these two weeks behind.

0:39 Are you coming up by the way? Is Jenna running it? Yes, her knee is like a little bit. The guppy, but like, yes, she is going to go to the start line and start. OK, I haven't decided. I actually, so I texted you this morning that my morning is chaotic. That is because this is my second activity of the day. Listeners, it is early in the morning. The Marine Corps Marathon is this weekend in DC. So we just got back from watching the Marine Corps Marathon.

1:03 So now I'm all like hyped on marathons. I'm like, oh, maybe I should go up to New York. Yeah. TBD. We'll see. Well, regardless, I have two friends who are running the marathon. One is Jenna and then the other is another friend that you have met and it's his first marathon ever. So we're having people over and the intent was for it to be like we kind of live close ish to the finish line, not that close, but walking distance and raise a good location in that it's kind of far enough away from the crowd that it's not going to be horrible in terms of just crowdedness around our apartment. And so I got asked, is there like a party fuller, a link or a start time or something to send around? And I was like, Oh yeah, sure,

1:43 quick, let me just make one. And so I make one. And I made it for the day because I figured, OK, we'd watch the pros on TV in the morning and then we'd go cheer and then we'd come back with the finishers and hang out and drink and celebrate. And I sent it till the the friend who's running, not just Jenna, doesn't really care whether we have a party or not. He's kind of like, I'm just trying to make it through the race.

2:08 But this friend and he was like, I don't think that non runners consider the marathon an all day affair. I was thinking like a three PM like after party. That's so funny. So nobody wants to start watching the pros at 9 AM, 9:00 AM. He was like, I didn't even know that professionals like ran this event that. Is so funny.

2:32 OK, that's a good reality check for me. I got it and I saw it and I'm like, what the fuck? She started us at 3:00 PM. The race is going to be like, oh. I'm upset about it. I specifically put in the body of the invite. I was like text me if you want to watch the pros in the morning. I will be watching them on TV so. Either way, I'm going to be doing that. The question is, am I doing that from New York or am I doing it from where I live?

2:55 But we'll see. We'll see. I'll. I'll keep I'll keep an eye on train tickets like. Yeah, so lesson learned, apparently. Apparently not everybody considers the marathon full day then, and also apparently not everybody knows that this is a professional. Oh. My God, it actually is. We're probably losing a ton of listeners here, but like, it actually is. I don't.

3:16 Yeah, we've watched a marathon in person together. It's so fucking wild because it is the flip of most sporting events where no one is watching the pros on the court and everyone comes out to cheer for their friend, right. So like the actual good runners who are like, in the pack and way far ahead of everyone. No one's for them because they're like, Oh, my friend's not coming for like an hour, you know? It's crazy.

3:37 It's actually crazy, brutal life. You'll watch like one of the fastest people in the world just stand by breathing borderline silently. Like you can hear their breathing and I'm like, you're at mile 24 and a half 26. .0 Race 4:45 and. Everyone's just like, oh, who's that? I'm like OK. Anyway, we love marathons.

4:03 Going to be emotional. It's going to be I. Was crying today. I'm a sports crier. I'm a real rudder crier that like 100% Oh my God. Especially in the marathon, like the the ends of sporting events and then the immediate aftermath of the victors. I loved, actually, back to your party fault. Party fault. I loved the picture that you selected because I was like, that's you're either going to know what that picture is or you're not.

4:28 And for our listener, it is when Shalane Flanagan won the New York City Marathon. And what? Fuck yeah on national television, which is like screaming fuck yes, the best American distance runner moment of the past decade. Oh my God, it's so good. And the best part of that for this specific event is even if you don't get it, it's still great because it is still like what you want to embody at the end of the marathon.

4:54 But if you do get it, it's like, like, what a moment? Like I've relaxed Grace. Full body cells. Tears, everything. I don't know if you remember this conversation. We had a conversation like 5 or 6 years ago. You and me. Yeah, you and me. This is obviously before we started this podcast, but we were joking.

5:12 We were like, should we start a podcast called Sports Crying where we just watch sports and crap? Let us know. Yeah, let us know if you want that to be a sight. Now that we're one step closer to that reality. Yeah, we know how to do a podcast. Yeah. Let us know. The Empire's boy. Anyway, love the marathon. Love the.

5:33 Love a marathon and duly noted how the rest of the world feels about. Them, and we know none of you care. So apologies that this was not the most riveting banter topic for you all. And that will cut it, will make it interesting. It's fine. My banter topic was going to be a rant about how there are no good adult non scary Halloween movies, but this is a. Bad topic, tell me what I want.

5:56 All right, so like, I don't like scary movies. As our listeners know, I'm more of a Wikipedia reader of The Scary Movie. And Derek and I like, we're like, OK, it's like a week before Halloween. Like I'd really love to watch a Halloween movie, but I don't want something scary. Your options are pretty much like Hocus Pocus, which I've watched 500 times at this point.

6:15 Practical Magic, which I still haven't watched, but I really want to watch it. There's Death Becomes Her, and then there's the Addams Family and Addams Family One and two are cinematic masterpieces in my opinion. But like, the rest of them are kind of like they're OK. So we settled on a movie called Hubie Halloween, which was it's an Adam Sandler movie. I don't like Adam.

6:33 I don't like current day Adam Sandler. Like 90s Adam Sandler was kind of funny. It was the worst fucking movie I've ever seen. We watched 20 minutes of it and I was just like, I can't, I can't even watch this. Like this is so bad. That's so interesting because I like, I kind of just have never really, I've never delineated children versus adult Halloween movies. Like, I just think of Tim Burton as like Tim Burton, and I'm going to watch anything by Tim Burton. That's true.

6:58 Tim Burton is certainly. Movie season movies to me. Yeah, Tim Burton is in that. Well, I wanted to watch Sleepy Hollow, but we had also recently watched Sleepy Hollow. My point is there's really only like 20 movies I think that fit this man. And we've watched. All of them. Harry Potter could be spooky enough, Could be spooky enough. I consider it a horses movie.

7:17 Is it a Halloween movie? But I think you could do both. There's a lot of movies. They're about to get through. You're right. It could be a Halloween movie. Yeah. Anyway, don't watch you be Halloween. Don't do it. It's terrible. So bad. Halloween Town was fun. So this is what this is what brought this up. We were walking in downtown when we were still in Rhode Island and they were doing a like screening of Halloween Town and we didn't know it was happening, but I was like, I want to stay. We like had plans.

7:46 We couldn't stay, but I was like, I just want to watch Halloween so bad. But that is definitively a children's movie. Like it is not a movie for adults. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I just maybe I just like children's Halloween movie. It turns out for holiday movies, I'm good with kids movie. Yeah, maybe that's the case. Maybe that's fine.

8:03 Or maybe we need to turn A Court of Thorns and Roses into a movie series. Food for thought, but I don't think that will fit this Halloween. No, I suppose not, but the world could always use more fantasy. I have been loving the guys. This is my first year in the romantic world. Like truly, I entered this world in January. It's all new to me, right?

8:22 So like all the like, fan art accounts that I follow on Instagram are doing the like Halloween costumes for our favorite romantic characters and I freaking love them. And I posted this the other day and Ronnie actually DM me about it. There was one where Cassian dressed up as Reese and like Nestor was like, I hate you, like I don't want to do this. And Caspian whispers under here.

8:44 He's like, don't you want to hate? Fuck me. I was like, I love the unhinged energy. It was great. It was great. I love it. Keep doing it, fan art accounts, keep doing what you're doing. They bring me so much, what you're doing. 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. I love it. All right. Hi, everyone. I'm Ronnie. I'm Abby.

9:03 And this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart your favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. We are covering A Court of Thorns and Roses, the series also known as A Guitar by Sarah J Maas. Disclaimer These episodes will contain spoilers for the entire A Guitar series, all 5 published books. We will announce any other masks for spoilers ahead of time. We keep them to the end.

9:28 If you're new here, we split our episodes into A Guitar only, so only the five published books in the actor series. And then we keep mass first to the end. If you've been here a while, you know the drill. Mass first section at the end. Another disclaimer, this podcast is rated R Don't listen to it with your children.

9:43 You already heard us talk about Cassian, and that's hate fucking while Cassian is dressed up as Reese. That's kind of par for the course here. All right, each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are digging into the tiny ancient one, Cameron. We come with receipts. We have quotes to back up any theories so you can follow along if you're skeptical.

10:03 Announcements, Abby, right? Our deep dive music is brought to you by Schwidley. So they are real artists. They are on Spotify. And their name is Schwidley. You should check them out. Other than that, in general, we, we've mentioned this before, we'll mention it again, but please rate, comment, subscribe if you like this episode.

10:19 We are small podcasts, but we are trying to grow and we actually are growing. We're growing a little bit. We're doing good. So you know, if you like us, if you're new here, tell your friends about us. If you think your friends would like us to, we know there's a lot of group chats out there. There's a lot of book clubs.

10:32 So you know, if you're in one of those, feel free to share. The more the merrier. Anything else? In that vein, I forgot to announce this last time we recorded but we had another social media milestone. We hit 10K on TikTok so thanks for being here. Kind of wild 10,000 people think that our silly little clips and videos are worth watching and showing up on your feet consistently, so thank you. OK, yeah, it is wild, guys.

11:01 We are. We are very happy that all of you are here and all of you have found us and we love this little community that we're growing. And once again, I want to shout this out. We put this at the end of the episode, but we do have a discord. It is drags in the details pod. That is the name of our server.

11:16 So if you want to and it's fairly active, there's fairly active chatting all the time about their theories. We love it. So if you want a place where you can just talk, talk shop all the time and you don't have to wait for us to post something, that's your spot. And we always put a link to it in the show notes too.

11:31 Cool, all right, Corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Also known as cosms. All right, I do. I do have one. All right, so we in our Cassian episode talked about the fact that Cassian and Nesta have matching 8 pointed star tattoos. And I said that that's not typical. Usually bargains in there in this universe are not marked with the same tattoo, which I'm still standing by.

11:57 However, we did have a listener point out and she brought a receipt. She had a quote. So I thought this was great. So this is Puja 07/3. I think Reese and Favor have the same tattoo from their last bargain. The quote Reese pulled back, tattooed arms braced on, on either side of my head. One was covered with his Illyrian markings, the other with the twin tattoo to the one on my arm.

12:18 The one on my arms. The last bargain we'd made to remain together through all that weighted ahead. And that isn't A Court of Frost and Starlight Chapter 5. So yeah, she's totally right. Recent Farrah do have twin tattoos for their bargain. Cassie and Anesta get twin tattoos for their bargain. I will stand by though, that is not how this originally started, right?

12:35 So originally only Farrah had the tattoo for the bargain with Reese. And we know that she gets tattoos for her bargain with re access and that Reese and Triga also have tattoos, but that those tattoos don't appear to be matching. So I don't know if that is just a decision that Sarah J Mass made at some .0.

12:52 These tattoos should also be matching, or if we're supposed to read into it. Could be nothing. Certainly could be nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because the recent fair one actually makes more sense in my mind to be the same because they're deciding to do the same thing together, right.

13:08 I kind of agree with that. Like it makes it makes more sense for there to be asymmetry if somebody owes the other something. Yeah, yeah. Which obviously isn't the case. So yeah, maybe like maybe it's just a little bit, maybe there's not really a pattern for us to be recognizing and we're just looking for something that's not there. Yeah.

13:25 Certainly could be that that would fit into our niche. It's into the niche. Well, yeah, OK, that's a good one. Yeah. Did you have any? OK I have one. Well 21 is a shout out on a comment. So we posted a real slash TikTok from our as real episode about Elaine wielding Truth Teller, killing Hyburn, killing the king of Hyburn and just appearing behind him.

13:51 And a commenter named Amanda commented that Newala and Sarah Dwin could have winnowed her. I think this is interesting. I don't necessarily know that new Allah and Sarah Dwin could have winnowed her. Maybe they could have. But I do think it is interesting that this like period of Elaine wielding truth teller and also getting closer to Azrael also coincides with her getting closer with half shadow wraiths, right? Like did this and I don't really have a clear perspective on this, but I kind of it seems like they got a lot closer after Elaine came into contact with truth Teller. So maybe they helped her.

14:28 Maybe there's just a connection to Elaine and shadows that we didn't necessarily appreciate. Maybe it's as real related. I don't know, but I think it's a good point. Like New Orleans, Sarah Dwin definitely are half shadow wraiths and close to Elaine and could have helped. We've talked about there being something between truth teller and shadows already. Could there be something between truth teller shadows and shadow beings?

14:51 Yeah, it's interesting. We got the same comment on Instagram. I wonder if it was the same same problem. Were they at the battle? So they were at the camp I'm pretty sure. I could be wrong on that, but just going off of pure memory, I thought that they were at the camp and still like helping them at the camp could be. I don't remember.

15:06 I don't know. It's possible, but we haven't really. We've seen them walk through walls, obviously, but we haven't seen them winnow, as far as I know. But yeah, you're, yes, all of the shadowy things for Elaine seem to be happening around the same time, which I yeah, it's definitely interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

15:25 And then one shout out for so I've shouted out accounts before on TikTok that I thought were interesting. I want to shout at another one. I love this creator. She comments on a lot of our stuff. I totally agree with everything that I see of hers. I actively do not watch her videos because she covers the exact same content as us. It's like math first theories.

15:45 And I'm like, I do not want to subconsciously absorb your theories, but I want to shout her out because I think she's awesome and deserves like so much more attention than she's getting. Let me find her a handle because her name is Morgan. But I want to actually get her a handle. Sorry. So her handle on TikTok is 3 faced goddess and her bio honestly illustrates it. It's mass verse crash out.

16:08 Like that is what she does and she makes she makes content about the mass verse every single day. It's so great. It's so in depth. I'm obsessed with it and she comments on so much which of our stuff like agreeing with it or pointing out really like important points and has asked for the title of podcast Auntie at this point, which I think is hilarious.

16:29 And we don't have one of those, so sure. You got it, Morgan. So thank you Morgan, for all of your your comments and feedback and love your content. Currently not trying to consume too much of it because don't want to subconsciously take any of your ideas inappropriately, but you're great. So thank you.

16:45 Yeah. It sounds like if you like us, you'll like her, so if. You like us, You'll like her. Yeah, that's what I think. That's what I think. All right. Anything else? OK, Fun question this week. Choose your fighter. Amarin or more. I know what you're going to ask. This is Amarin Pre. What's he going to ask it?

17:01 I would just assumed pre cauldron Amarin Amarin again. I didn't prepare anything for this, but and and we talked about this with our more episode, right? We have not really seen yeah, the power out of more that is alluded to. So I don't know what it looks like, but like is she a fucking Angel of death sweeping over the army of hybrid? Because if she's not, I'm not picking her. Yeah, I agree.

17:24 Yeah, I agree. Aaron, I do think in the question I had intended it to be Ameren bound to her mortal form, but like we have unfortunately seen her in her whatever her raw form is, which yes, literally kills everyone that she even passes. So something very nefarious, Not nefarious. Well, I don't want to get into that something. Deadly.

17:46 Deadly lethal, if you will. Yeah, I agree. Lurks under her skin, so yeah. And the fact that I think Reese's only questioned her like a couple times ever, not crossing her. So if I'm picking a fighter, it's probably her. However, who's less likely to backstab? Probably more, Probably more. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I'm accusing my fighter round about that. So you wouldn't pick Amarin because you think Amarin would betray you or deceive you in some way? Maybe, maybe I'm still picking Amarin, to be clear. But like, am I posting Amarin?

18:21 I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. We'll get into that. All right, shall we deep dive? We shall. All right, Roddy, what are Amaranth powers? All right, we've got a bit of a list here, but there is also just kind of this overarching immortality, death, glowy, dangerous shit living behind her eyes. So like when because when we were talking about Nesta's powers, I feel like we didn't lead with that. I'm going to lead with this.

18:56 Like Amron's got something very deep, very dark, very big happening within her that I that I don't think we fully understand. But we're going to talk about what it looks like, what it presents as, what it does. But first I'm going to talk through, I think everything that we've observed and I may have missed some things because there's a lot of books, which is fine.

19:14 So formerly she had immortality, right? At least we're told like immortality in that, you know, Faye are yes, immortal. But like she was immortal even compared to to Faye. She had this mysterious glowing power behind her eyes. She had it really frequently before the events of ACT War, but it actually does happen again after the events of the Cauldron, specifically when they're talking about the Dread Trove.

19:40 So I don't think everything within her is gone. She's still, her eyes still glow, so something's there. She is able to make people hallucinate, feel and see things that are not actually there or happening. So she makes people who are attacking Velaris feel like they are dying effectively on land or feel like they are, you know, seeing things that they're not actually seeing.

19:59 So they end up just like crashing. She's able to heal to some extent. She says she's not actually a real healer but she's able to like start healing Cassian's wings in the end of according to some fury, bless you bless you 3 times. She's able to sense words, adapt wards and destroy wards. So just a general wording of things.

20:21 When they steal the books she's like looking for them. She can't find them. She can destroy the wards around Brie axis, there's a bunch of other times she can adapt the wards around Valoris when that shit happens in Valoris and she can create wards as well. So just general warding things, She made herself mortal and bound herself to a body, whatever the fuck that means. She made her own body and was able to execute whatever spell was required to bind her own being to that body. And that is how she escaped the prison. And then at the battle of Hyburn or the final battle of Hyburn, I should say Battle against Hyburn, when she tricks Farah into helping her unbind herself from that mortal form, we see kind of her true form.

21:09 And this is not the question about what is Xamarin, so I'm not going to describe it in detail. But we see her take her true form so that she can fight on behalf of of Prythian against Highburn. And she basically is just death. Like she can just sweep over people and quote inhale the life out of them.

21:27 So she has this power that seems quite a bit like death. She doesn't even really have to touch anybody to execute it. She just is there and then they are dead and then she just has this unknown otherworldly power. An example of it when they are stealing the Book of Breathings, she puts her palm out against the door, is burning the door. She has elemental power, I guess is the way that you would describe it.

21:52 And swirls and whirls like radiate out of it. So these like tattoo whirls that we see on people's bodies like that is her magic somehow question mark. So this has other worldly. Power. She has this death power. She has basic elemental power in seemingly every sense. She's able to heal, she's immortal, she's I assume she has mind work because she's able to make people hallucinate. She's seemingly all powerful.

22:20 What did I miss? Yeah, so there's some really I want to talk about the so the the Book of breathing scene is totally fucking crazy because we see Amarin do things that she has never done before and that we are kind of told she doesn't have the ability to do, right. So we're specifically told like Nesta Amarin did not possess specific Matt, sorry, like Nesta Amarin did not possess court specific magic related to the high Fey. It didn't make her influence in this court any less mighty. So we know that Farrah has control over water because she has Tarkins court specific magic. We're told Ameren doesn't have that, but Ameren holds her palm out and water parts for her right, which I kind of didn't catch the first time I read it.

23:02 It's pretty, it's pretty wild. It's a little I'll definitely say it's a little confusing. I want to talk about the mind work because like once again, we are getting mind work right? So like and the the quote for that is when this is again when the soldiers attack Polaris with her dark power, she had spun illusions St. into the soldiers minds.

23:22 They believe they had fallen into the Sidra and were drowning. They believe they were flying 1000 feet above and had dived fast and swift for the city only to find the street near feet away. And the crunch of their skulls, the crueler ones, the wickedest one she had, she had unleashed their own nightmares upon them until they died from terror of their hearts giving out very de Madi, very, very de Madi. And we're never told she's a de Madi, right? But like this is literally what Reese says, like de Madi can do, right?

23:48 De Madi can like and he says he does this too to both the picks in a bad way and to the to Claire in like a good way, right? Like kind of spinning this illusion, spinning this reality for them, making them believe that they are somewhere, something that they are not. Again, not told she's a De Madi, but that we're told she has that power. And then when she's training Nesta in to go into the human city, we get like other clues that she has this mind power. So what she says is hold on.

24:15 Yeah so Farrah walks in on Nesta and Ameren having basically a staring contest and she's like what's going on here and the quote is Ameren turned her head to me with exaggerated slowness. Her chin length razor straight hair shifting with the movement. Reese has his own method of training you. I have mine. Her white teeth flash with every word. We visit the court of nightmares tomorrow night. She needs some basic training before we do. Like what?

24:38 Ameren side of the ceiling shielding herself from prying minds in powers. So she's teaching Nesta how to shield with a prying mind, right? She is prying into Nestas mind. Like how is she doing that? And then later she says you always need to protect your vital organs. Like what is this? This is like not anything we've seen before, right?

24:56 Yeah, so she has all that. Just some other notes about her and Reese. I think Reese says that she taught him how to control his powers, right. So the quote for that is it's when he's like kind of like letting off some of his magic and fair was questioning about him about it. He says it seems like you have a She says it seems like you have a great deal of magic constantly and use it once a shrug. It helps me work off the strain of my power. The magic needs release draining or else it'll build up and drive me insane, or so I was warned.

25:26 I can feel it though, the pull of it if I go too long without releasing it. That's horrible. Another shrug. Everything has its cost, Farrah. If the price of being strong enough to shield my people is that I have to struggle with that same power, then I don't mind. Ameren taught me enough about controlling it enough that I owe a great deal to her and currently including the current shield around my city while we're here. So again, we're told that Ameren like, doesn't have this fame magic, but then she's teaching Reese how to control his magic. So like something kind of doesn't add up there I think. Yeah, I think it's fair.

26:00 I mean, we're not told that she's Damati. We're not told that she has fade power, but we are told that she is the only thing of her kind. We are not told that she just doesn't have power. We're not really told really anything about her power. Like we're not told Ameren doesn't have X, Ameren isn't Y. We're just told like Ameren is something else, like there is no other kind like her.

26:24 And so in that sense, she is a total enigma. But I think it is important that she is the only person who's able to train Reese and and that she's Reese's second for whatever reason. Totally agree. Yeah. And like what she can do, it kind of seems to be like whatever is whatever. She wants whatever she wants. Yeah, Yeah.

26:45 But I don't know what the route it would be fair to call her like because the Damati seems like it's a they skill so maybe that's their delineator. I don't. Know, I don't know. She's not saying. She's certainly not fae. I'm not saying right. So I'm not had the argument with Tamlin. I'm not saying she's Damotti here.

27:03 I don't even know what that word means anymore for being honest. But like, she clearly has some kind of mental ability. Yeah. And where she can make people do mind things. Yeah, she can do mind work. Yeah. And like, she taught Reese how to control his own power. So why is it is it that Amran was the one who taught him to control his powers when there's so many Faye around him? Why did he have to go to Amran to kind of do that? You know, that's that's the question that raises for me. I don't have an answer.

27:28 Yeah, she kind of plays like a Hand of the King type figure I feel like in their relationship. And then the only other thing I would mention here, we don't have to get too deep into it. She is made right, but she is not connected to the Cauldron the way that Nesta is. And we know that because the quote is basically when Farrah is like the king of hybrid is going to try to bring down the OR Reese is like the king of hybrid is going to try to bring down the wall.

27:56 Ameren is like, I think I could train Nesta to prevent that and to patch up the holes in the wall and kind of like make that OK. Like I think I can train Nesta. I can't do it myself, even though I am made. And I think, I think that question is even asked at one point that Amra's like, yes, I'm made, but I don't have the connections to the cauldron that you do.

28:16 So again, that kind of delineation between different made people and like what that really means. Yeah. And she needs, she needs Farrah, and she thinks she needs Nesta as well to help her manipulate the cauldron and unbind. Herself. Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's a great point. That is a great point, yeah. So she can't do anything because she couldn't unbind herself. She can't do anything without that connection to the cauldron. Yeah.

28:44 She needs Favor to be the conduit. Interesting. Interesting. Cool. OK. All right. Anything else on Amrons? Powers? No. I think we're good. OK, Abby, where did Ameren come from all? Right, I don't have a hard and fast answer for this one, but I think it's worth talking about the quotes that we do have about this, right?

29:02 So number one, she came from somewhere with humans, which I think is very interesting, right? So now we know that humans exist on multiple different worlds within this universe, within this reality. So the quote for that is I watched them for so many eons. Humans in my world there were humans too.

29:18 And I watched them love and hate, wage senseless war and find precious peace, watch them build lies, build world, build worlds. I was, I was never allowed such things. I had not been designed that way and not been ordered to do so. So I watched and that day I came here, it was the first selfish thing I had done, blah blah blah. So basically somewhere with humans, right? Which is interesting to me.

29:38 She says it's also somewhere where the blood tasted pure and richer. We know Ameren drinks blood before she kind of fully goes into her fae form right? So Farah is bringing Ameren blood to her apartment as like a thank you or a gift. And she asked Ameren what her favorite type of blood is and Ameren says lamb has always been my favorite. Horrible as it is not human.

30:00 She made a face watery and often tastes like what they last ate. And since most humans have piss poor palates it's too much of A gamble. But lamb? I'll take goat to the bloods. Pure richer reminds me of another time and place. So that's Miss and Fury Chapter 39. This kind of reminded me of the Lanthus line about magic flowing untethered again.

30:20 So the quote for that is we shall rebuild. And this is when Lanthus is talking to Nesta in the prison. We shall rebuild to what we were before the golden legions of the fae cast off their chains and overthrew us. We shall resurrect the Wild Hunt and ride rampant through the night. We shall build palaces of ice and flame, palaces of darkness and night.

30:38 Magic shall flow untethered again. So we get this kind of just an imagery throughout this series that like, things are not what they used to be. Impressive. Like magic has kind of declined whether or not this blood is from here or for somewhere else. It's like the blood here is not as good as the blood was elsewhere. Like we get this idea that like maybe something is like leeching off the land and we don't really know what that is. I don't have, again, I don't have an answer there, but just kind of like we're we're continuing to see this pattern with Ameren.

31:09 We also know that like she appears from a RIP in the sky. So basically the quote we get for that is I was perfect according to some. I did not regret, did not mourn in pain. I did not experience it. And yet yet I wound up here because I was not quite like the others, even as as what I was. I was different too curious, too questioning the day the RIP appeared in the sky.

31:31 It was curiosity that drove me. My brothers and sisters fled upon the orders of our ruler. We had just laid waste to Twin Cities, smote them wholly into rubble on the plane, and yet they fled from that RIP in the world. But I wanted to look. I I wanted I was not built or bred to feel such selfish things as want.

31:48 I'd seen what happened to those of my kind who strayed, who learned to place their needs first, who developed feeling. But I went through the tear in the sky and here I am. Couple interesting things here. So she she says she came through a RIP in the world, right. Again, this is not answering the question. These are just interesting patterns. I found.

32:04 We have two other times where a RIP in the world is used that phrase and it's about we think it's about windowing, but it is about Reese and it is about Eris. So the first time that Reese winnows it is described as a RIP in the world. And the quote is and this is literally in the Supreme Court, right all the way back in Book 1. Reese and turned to Tamlin, unfazed by the high Lord's proximity.

32:25 Well, this was entertaining the most fun I've had in ages actually. I'll look forward to seeing you 3 under the mountain. I'll give him Marantha your regards then Reese and vanished into nothing as if he'd stepped through a RIP in the world, leaving us alone in horrible trembling silence. So like what Amarin went through was a RIP in the world, but then we're also calling winnowing here a RIP in the world. Eris appears out of a RIP in the world at the start of the Battle of Hybrid.

32:49 So the quote for that is out of a RIP in the world. Eris appeared our top, our Knoll clad head to toe in silver armor, a red Cape spilling from his shoulders. Reese snarled a warning too far gone in his power to bother controlling himself. We don't know where Eris came from. There was Eris before this battle with Reese. We know he was like going back to Under the Mountain, presumably.

33:11 But like, why use a RIP in the world for, like, all three of these things when we know Ameren was coming from, like, a different planet entirely or different something entirely? Yeah, interesting. I don't know. I don't know. We have like maybe one clue with the bone Carver so that we know the bone Carver also came from somewhere else. We are told he arrived 10s of thousands of years before Amarin, but the Amarin timeline is really sketchy and I think we'll probably get into that in our mass first section. Yeah.

33:39 We're told he arrived 10s of years, 10s of thousands of years before Amarin also fell into this world and that his world is now nothing but dust drifting across a plane. When he is talking to Farah, him and Farah have been talking about Amarin and then at a certain point they start talking about his siblings. But before they start talking about his siblings, he says where we came from, Right?

34:01 So they were talking about him and Amarin. He says where we came from. I don't know if that means him and Amarin came from the same place or if he has started talking about his siblings now, but he does. He doesn't say where I came from. He says where we where we came from. Well, I think it's it's worth noting, and again, this could totally just be because of how long Ameren has been around, but like, she knows all these people.

34:21 And by people I mean death God, death God. She knows the bone Carver, she knows Striga, she knows free access, she knows Coach J, she knows Lanthus like she and she is usually the person who's telling us their names. So I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's possible they met before. Somewhere.

34:41 For Peruvian, yeah, I don't think it's unreasonable. I don't think it's like they have to have had a relationship before Parthian. At least she and the bone Carver were in the prison together at some point. So yeah, there's that. But but Briaxis is a great. Question like why would Amber know Briaxis?

34:57 Is why does Amber know Briaxis when like? And she's the only one. She's the only one who knows his name, Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. All right, so the only other thing I have here is that Gwen tells us we have 11 of 11 to 26 worlds we're dealing with here somewhere, somewhere in that vicinity, right? So the reminder for that, I don't have the exact quote, but basically she says Meryl is researching the possibility of other worlds.

35:21 Some people think there are 11, some people think that there are 26. I think Ameren and the Bone Carver confirm that, right? Like they definitely came from other worlds. So like, I don't know if we're dealing with 11 or 26, but like they came from somewhere where else. And we know that we are told that the harp can potentially open doors to other worlds, right? So the quote for that is, and this isn't silver flames, the harp can open any door, physical or otherwise, some say between worlds.

35:45 So we know that a RIP appeared in the sky, but we don't know how or why, right? So is it possible that the harp was used to create kind of a portal between Prythian and wherever Ameren came from? And that's where Ameren came from? Like I know she says her father did it, but there's kind of some weirdness about that which we'll get into maybe in the next question, maybe in Nas 1st.

36:09 And if that's the case, does that mean that the opposite happened too and that some beings from Christian went into her world too? I don't know, I'm just speculating. This is probably going to be a big speculation episode guys. We don't actually know that much about it. We don't know that much.

36:23 Yeah. We're trying to get to like some, some options for answers. So I think the biggest challenge with respect to this question is we have very little information from Amarin directly. Like a lot of information that we have about this question is, is from Reese about what he's gleaned or like what he's assuming or what conclusions he's drawing, or he sent Azrael to go look into this, and not a lot from Amarin's mouth. So Reese, when fairer asks, where did Amarin come from? Talks about the forming with a capital F, which is the beginning of the world.

36:57 I think you talked about this. So it says creatures from other worlds could walk through one of those rips and enter another world, but the rips were closing at will and so creatures could become trapped. And so favorite, like, it's kind of assumes that this is what happens to Ameren and asks like, what do you think she is? He says she's the only one of her kind. There's no records of others ever having existed, like Ameren.

37:19 And so in that way, it seems like he's saying she's one of one of one. And so like maybe she's not like Brie Axis in the bone Carver and Lanthus and Coche and like all of these other beings. But then Ameren, he read this quote too when she reveals how she escaped the escaped the prison recounts her arrival on Prytheon and says she went through that tear in the sky. But she also says she had a ruler, right? And this ruler was like a conqueror ruler. So she she says, upon the orders of our ruler, we had just laid waste to Twin Cities, smote them wholly into rubble on the plane. And yet they fled from that RIP in the world that she's talking about her brothers and sisters.

37:58 And so she's like part of some group with brothers and sisters. She also has a father, mentions a father with a capital F. So it's feeling very angelic, biblical God like sure is, but but not in the traditional sense because we're we're hearing a lot of battle, conquering, destroying cities. So she's she's in like a tough situation.

38:21 She's described herself as unfeeling, immortal, perfect, right. So she is describing herself as as angelic and serving some type of ruler God type thing, but not like God God capital G God. Probably because at least not in the traditional sense. Because this seems to be a not so good, not so good God maybe. Well, I got more into this in the next question, but like, I don't.

38:47 Know we'll talk about like what she what she is, but I'm I'm trying to tie it into like where could you be from? Reese has said, considering the origins of Prythian that they were created by a race called the Daglin who were near gods. So that quote is the fae were not the first masters of this world. According to our oldest legends, most now forgotten. We were created by beings who were near gods and monsters. The Daglin.

39:11 They ruled for millennia and they enslaved us and the humans. They were petty and cruel and drank the magic of the land like wine. And Amaran literally comes up when Reese is explaining this and he explains that Amaran arrives like before Fionn's rule. So during the Daglin rule or maybe at the time of their arrival and we're Sarah J Mass allegedly apparently I've had a screenshot of a transcript has gone on record saying her readers should think of Amron as an Old Testament style Angel assassin who got tired of doing a God's dirty work.

39:41 So could she be from like the Daglins homeworld? Reese is talking about the forming when he mentions where Amron is from. Amron comes up when Reese is talking about the Daglin creating the fae and being the first masters of the world. Amron maybe arrived at the same time as them or during their rule.

39:58 Like, could she have come from that world in that case? Like, I'm questioning what role she played with them or in that world when she came over because it seemed like she was leaving a situation that she didn't want to be a part of. And so like, if if those people were rulers in that world and they came into this one, then like that's not good for Ameren.

40:18 So like, that can't have been good during their rule while she was here. Yeah. So I agree. Like, where did she come from? Maybe there. I, for what it's worth, also think it's. Really plausible to your point that we have not seen where she's from. There are 26 worlds alluded to in this series so maybe we just have no idea. But that is the only world that we have been like potentially told could even exist is like this like pre world of the DAC one well.

40:44 I just to add on to that a little more with the Twin Cities thing. And again we have our next question is what is Xamarin? So I think we'll get into this a lot more in the next question. But just to talk it through Twin Cities, like we have Sodom and Gomorrah in our Bible, right? In our Old Testament, Sodom and Gomorrah like huge allusions to Sodom and Gomorrah with laying waste to Twin Cities, right?

41:04 So is it, is it earth? Is it our world? Like is that what this is like? Is she a true fire and brimstone, which are words she uses Old Testament Angel and is she from our world? I don't know it'd be fun and we know the what is it The less shown Hakodesh that the book of breathings is written in is actually biblical Hebrew.

41:23 It is so like. Yeah. We're getting allusions to our world, which would be like such a fun twist if she put that in there. I don't know. So maybe Earth, maybe Earth, maybe Earth, I don't know. That'd be fun. All right. Next question, which maybe we should have done before this question that I think about it, but it's OK. It's fun.

41:45 All right, Ronnie, what is Amron? OK. So we kind of talked a little bit. That's out of the bag. Yeah, that's out of the bag. But I'll talk about some of her characteristics and then we'll talk about why she might be an Old Testament style Angel Amron before the events at the end of ACT War. We'll talk about first, then we can talk about maybe what we think happened to her following that. So she drinks blood as her primary form of sustenance, doesn't really do food.

42:12 While Amron's out hunting, the citizens of Velaris leave blood out as an offering to basically ask Amarin to like pass over their house which. They paint their doorways with lamb's blood, which is word for word testament. I mean, Amarin does drink blood. So it's a little bit, it's a little bit more about Amarin than just, well, no, yeah, it's Passover. No, no, it's just Passover.

42:40 We've already talked about the fact that they are mortal compared to what she was, and when she's describing herself, she describes herself before she came to Prithian and bound herself into this mortal form as perfect. She did not regret, she did not mourn. She did not experience pain. She basically didn't feel.

42:56 She had what she called burning grace. She definitely had wings. And we find that in her form, when she is released from her mortal form, when she comes out of the cauldron, she has these dark wings. And when asked by Nesta what she actually was, Amarin says a messenger and soldier assassin for a wrathful God who ruled a young world. Her name was not Amarin in this old life. She chose Amarin for a reason but she doesn't reveal it and she says it was long story and Ameren as an aside means rest or peace.

43:28 So it seems like potentially she has come to Prithian and found this rest or peace that perhaps she did not find in her old world. Well, and again, it's I found that it was Hebrew roots. I mean, it's hard to know, but like I've yeah, Hebrew. Yeah, get her back to Hebrew. We're getting a lot of notes of Hebrew.

43:45 She had a father and her father has a capital F Again, very biblical. God the Father has a capital F. She says to to Nesta, we are the same you and I, not in flesh, not in the thing that prowls beneath our skin and bones. But I see the Colonel girl, you did not fit the mold they shoved you into. So she has all that she's describing all of these traits that she was perfect.

44:11 She didn't regret, she didn't mourn. She has all of these kind of angelic biblical qualities, but she is pointing out that she had some some flaw like some form of like original, maybe not original, maybe just sin that didn't that didn't quite fit with the mold that she was being shoved into. She felt something she wanted I think was the exact quote. And you just gave me a light bulb moment. I'm excited, okay?

44:37 Do you want to interrupt or should I keep going? Keep going? She didn't, she didn't fit. She wanted she she was curious. And so she is pointing out that she and Nesta both had this kind of qualm. And when Farrah unbinds her and Cameron literally broke the cauldron, and I think this is important because the cauldron could not contain Amarin's being.

44:58 It fractured under her, right? So she explodes in light and fire, roaring in victory and rage and pain, Farah says. I could have sworn I saw great burning wings, each feather a simmering ember spread wide. Could have sworn a crown of incandescent light floated just above her flaming hair. She was a burning behemoth raining fire in brimstone.

45:21 So like you said, like this is this is biblical Angel of death. She's an Angel. She's an Angel. Of death. She's an Angel of death. And so just to double down on this, right, Sarah J Mast has gone on record. I have read, I will disclaim, but I read a transcript that Sarah J Mast said, OK, so so Amarin is basically an Old Testament Angel, not one of those angels with the pretty white wings.

45:43 Hers are more like wings of raging fire. Think the Angel of death, that sort of Angel, essentially she is an Angel assassin that got tired of doing a God's dirty work and became curious about what else was out there. The author said so the author said so soldiers literally died as she passed. She inhales the life out of them. Her own life sputters out and then of course she her life sputters out.

46:10 But Reese reaches out of hand and and she comes back. I will say I think we maybe went into this episode questioning her relationship to death gods. I wrote in my notes here I don't think Cameron was a death God. No, I don't think she's a death God. I think she is a death. I think she's something else, more greater actually than death gods. Although it's interesting she shudders at the thought of Lanthus, which is also why I don't think she's a death God. After she's fair, right After she yields. Yeah, yeah.

46:42 So I have everything you have. The only thing I would add, so I would add two things. And you, you actually just triggered something for me, which is kind of wild and I have no notes for it, but we'll just fucking go off the cuff. Whatever. So specifically with the Angel of Death, the Blam's blood being painted over the doorway in the biblical story was the was to prevent the Angel of Death from taking their first born sons, right?

47:05 So yes, 100% not just an Angel. She's literally like an Angel of death. So just more confirmation there. She says, and I don't think you read this, but I think it's important you read the first part of this, but you didn't read the second part of this. So I yielded my grace, my perfect immortality. I knew that once I did, I would feel pain and regret. I would want I would burn with it. I would fall right.

47:25 So fall in. I mean, it's it's definitely falling like an Angel falls right. And we get a lot of serpent snake imagery with Amran. There's a lot of times I didn't write them down because I didn't think I had a theory for it. Now I kind of have a theory for it, actually. Oh, I don't like the way you're smiling. Am I ruining something?

47:48 I think you're going towards my precog, but it's OK, it's fun. OK, All right. Like falling Angel is Lucifer, right that he is like kind of the the first one. He is the first Angel who fell like it. He is kind of the prototype archetype for this. Obviously, in the Garden of Eden, he plays the role of a snake. And Ameren is often like, she slither. She has a Serpentine smile.

48:09 There's all this snake imagery about Ameren. Like, is Ameren playing the role of the snake here? Yeah. Is Ameren actually like, is Prithean some kind of Eden? Is Ameren we're going to corrupt them somehow? I don't know. There's a lot of sketchy shit with Aaron that I'm sure we'll get into in mass verse. But like, is that how this comes full circle? And and she might not even be nefarious. It might just be, you know what?

48:30 I'm going to stop there because I don't want to ruin your pre cod corner. I'm just going to point out we have a devil imagery and we have a snake imagery. No, I think it's I think it's fine because this is the last question of the actor only section and I have two two things and we'll get more into it in mass verse that I think could indicate that Amaran is a Lucifer figure within Prithian.

48:52 The first I think is obvious and that is the point at which Amaran is kind of pushing Reese to become high. So that quote is went. So the context is Nesta accident accidentally creates a new trove and Cassie and Azrael and Reece are all like, oh, new trove and Ameren is like, don't you boys fucking touch it? And she read the room and they're like, we're going to touch it and she comes back and she is she basically the quote is with these three blades.

49:21 You could make yourself hiking. The words cling through the room. Cassie and slowly blinked. Re said tightly. I don't wish to be hiking, I only wish to be here with my mate and my people. Amron countered. All 7 courts united under 1 ruler would give us far better odds of survival in any upcoming conflict. No bickering and politicking required to dispatch our armies. Malcontents like Baron would have no ability to threaten our plans by allying with our enemies. So two thoughts here.

49:48 One, could Ameren know something because she seems to be alluding to a much bigger conflict when we seem to have just won a pretty big war. Yeah, we've got, we've got Koche out there, but doesn't he's. Just one little death God. And he's like trapped in a lake, like, I don't know. Yeah, 2 like this is a pretty clear like poke prod towards corruption, right? Like, oh, Reese, you want to be high king, like a temp, a temptress type of a snake situation, a snake in the Garden of Eden.

50:18 The second one is a little bit sneakier, but I think it's interesting. So we talked, you talked in the last episode. I think it was Bum's cosm. Yeah, about the bargain with Brie axis being potentially kind of like sketchy. And we won't talk too much about it here because I think it's really for the next section.

50:36 But I wanted to point out that. So for context, right, the bargain with Breexis was for sunlight, moonlight and the stars. Ameren is the one who says a window. She is the one who says it's a window. Like that's that's what it is. She is the one who convinces Farah that it's something pretty simple, pushes her into this bargain with Breexis.

50:55 So the quote of that bargain is this is Ameren, she said, her voice as young and old as the creatures. We will offer you freedom from this place in exchange for it. A bargain. A simple, powerful magic, as great as any the book could muster. This is my home, That's Bri Axis, I considered. Then what is it you want in exchange?

51:14 Silence, Bri Axis says. Sunlight and moonlight the stars. I opened my mouth to say I wasn't entirely sure that even as High Lady of the Night Court I could promise such things, but Ameren stepped on my foot and murmured a window high above. So like, what did we just promised Bree Axis? And why did Ameren convince us to promise that to Bree Axis? Yeah, the stars are kind of like are kind of Reese's whole thing. So I think Cameron could be a Lucifer figure. Yeah.

51:44 Yep. I'm debating what to say. I believe there is a moment we can cut this. If I'm wrong, we're Nesta's swords. Atoraxia is described as glowing with moonlight, and I think there is other moon imagery that we get with Nesta as well. So we have rhesus stars and we have Nesta as moonlight, right? So like, are there threads being woven here that are big?

52:05 Helions sunlight we have. Helium are we? Treat are we giving briaxis like Prythian? Yeah. Yeah no, Amerens behavior is really sketchy in that scene. Why is she stepping on Ferris foot I. Don't know all right anything else on what is Ameren? Truly, so many notes that I crossed out because I was like, no, they're not.

52:26 I don't want to talk about this right now. The only note I'd add on Ameren potentially being more nefarious than we have been led to believe up to this point in time is that New Allah and Sarah Dwin are don't like to be around her. They're scared of her, right? So they like leave the room when she's comes in. At one point, Farah says someone like New Allah drew the short end of the stick and had to attend to Ameren that day or something.

52:49 So like, they are characters who are wreathed in shadows. And we've talked about, so we'll talk about this too. We've talked about how Azrael shadows kind of potentially tell him how the world really is, and they do not like Ameren. There are also two instances where it seems like Azrael does not fully trust Ameren. Let me see if I wrote them down.

53:08 One of them is definitely when they're talking about Nesta's trove, and Ameren says do not tell this to Nesta. And Azrael is like, what? Yeah. That's one. And the other one is when Ameren gets really mad because she realizes they want to talk to the bone Carver without her or without telling. And Azrael literally turns into shadows and sneaks behind her.

53:28 And Amarin says like call off your dog like he's about to attack her basically because she thinks that Reese is in danger and Pharaoh is in danger, so he's about to attack her. Let me just see real quick. And then there's a moment, this is kind of at the beginning where it where it literally says Azrael marks Amarin. So the quote is they're talking about jury and coming about jury and being resurrected.

53:51 The quote is Jurian, the ancient warrior who sold Amaranth that had imprisoned within the hideous, that hideous ring as punishment for killing her sister, the ring that contained his eye. Bullshit, Cassie, it's fat. There's no way to do that. Amaran had gone still and it was she whom Azrael was observing, marking, right?

54:08 So we have these shadow adjacent creatures with new Allah and Sergewin and Azrael and all of them are a little skittish, are a little kind of distrusting of Amron, right. And we've talked about, we talked about a great length in the Azrael episode about his shadows and what they tell him and how they kind of feed him secrets.

54:27 So like, I think we're getting some subtle clues here that maybe Amron is not as trustworthy as we have been led to believe. But they're tiny. They're tiny. And obviously Amron up to this point has been a really huge team player and like a huge help and everything. Yeah. And I think it's worth pointing out, right?

54:45 Like these, these moments, they exist and they're enough to give us pause. And they're in direct conflict with the fact that she seems to have given up everything for her friends and Prithian. So it's all very confusing. Like she literally, she gave up her life effectively to try and take out Highburn and chose to to come back and now has this like relationship with Varian. So like, what is going on?

55:09 Yeah. I'm not, I'm not sold on it. I'm not sold on it. I'm just saying there. And I think we're on the same page here, right? Like neither one of us is here. Like planting our flag that like, Amerind can't be trusted, but there are tiny clues that we are potentially getting. But that does not outweigh her actions thus far, which have been on the side of our friends.

55:27 I'm not going to say the side of the good because people get upset about that, but like, on the side of our friends, certainly. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, agreed. Cool, cool. OK, all right, it is time for our Mass Verse section. So if you have not read Crescent City and Throne of Glass in their entirety, all 11 books, you will be spoiled. I was like, there's 16 bucks, but you're not including a guitar.

55:52 Yeah. Yeah, so we are going to start talking about spoilers from a guitar Crescent City Throne of Glass after I finished the sentence. So if you do not want to be spoiled, you should leave now. We love you. Bye. Love you. Bye. All right, welcome to the mass first section. This is where it gets fun, although honestly that guitar only section was more fun than I thought it was going to be.

56:14 Yeah, there is actually a lot about Amarin we don't have to talk about the. Steri, part of it all and you can still get pretty far, but you can't, like get to the truth, I think is the thing of it, yeah. Yeah. Well, I and I also do think to be fair, there's still an open question on and we haven't we have not talked about this in real life at all.

56:32 But like, is Sarah J Mass going the route of the asteri are related to these like this biblical God? Or is Sarah J Mass making one of these 26 realms like Earth and like our God? Yeah, I have no idea. I have no idea. So so you could always take that path of the theories in a guitar only obviously, like then we get into the is this going to become a banned book situation?

57:00 But it kind of already is, so whatever. OK, all right. Corrections, omissions, social media shoutouts, Mass verse edition, also known as cosms. Do you have any? Big 1, and I don't think we're going to get fully into it now, but I did want to bring it up because it is technically an omission and I do think we'll talk about it more in our Reese episode.

57:17 So I'm just going to bring it up now and we can leave it. OK. In our AS Reel episode, we forgot about some pretty important shadow singers in the mass verse, and that is Helena and Celine. Helena and Celine are shadow singers, which is kind of fucking wild. So the quote for that is my mother eventually trusted only Helena and myself to seek the truth. She knew we could be of great use to her because we bore the shadows as well as Starlight.

57:43 And then we cut to Bryce's POV. This is when she's doing the video. Helena and Celine crept through the dimness of a mighty Crystal Palace down a winding crystal staircase. That's the Esteri Palace, Bryce whispered to Azrael and Nesta in the Eternal City. Back to Celine, we spent a month, month hidden in the enemy stronghold no more than shadows ourselves.

58:03 Definitely how Azrael uses shadows as far as I'm concerned. We've talked about Analius being the source of the shadow wielding in Prithean, but like perhaps like there are there are still two ways that this could have happened as far as I'm concerned, right, Because they are presumably Theon's daughters and Thea does not have the shadow power.

58:20 It starts with Celine and Helena, right? So either Theon was Valg slash Prince of hell. We think they're the same at this point. Either Fionn was Valg or we've talked about how Faya's pregnancy was really weird, right? So she didn't get pregnant until later in life and then she had two daughters very quickly. What if it was a hunt afflar situation? Like, what if the Princess of hell got involved at that point and like, provided the genetic material basically? I don't know.

58:46 We do not have time to dive into this theory in this episode, but I thought that was a pretty big omission and we're probably going to have to talk about it in our Reese episode. And this whole that whole thing like something doesn't sit right with me because they are an Atis were made but. And they met after. Two Celine's recountants.

59:06 They met and were mated like well after Celine and Helena were born. But this is Celine's recountants. Totally true. Totally fucking true. So a lot that is far more plausible like if it's Adas's involvement, that's that makes way more sense to me, obviously because like, duh. But to your point, like he he is introduced much later.

59:31 But Celine says I I know almost nothing about the story of how they came to be mates and like how that transpired. So she doesn't really know like when it started and when it like how it came to fruition. So it could still be hell yeah, but. Could still be hell, I have no idea. I am starting to wonder if this is just crazy and none of this actually makes sense.

59:54 But like, yeah, I was reading Crescent City and I was like, fuck, this is a big. Yeah, I did as part of prep for this, which was honestly, it ended up being kind of a waste of time. I did like a full step by step, like easy reading summary of the story that Celine told. And I was just like, like, does this does all of this work?

1:00:18 Okay, yeah. And in that vein, I also have a cosm. And I think if you're in our Discord, you know that this is going to be a cosm. So one of our discord users, Emma, this is very relevant to to our Ameren episode points out and like basically to to build a headline here points out that someone is lying about the timelines regarding the prison Prithian split and the fae exodus to Midgard. And most of what we learn about in in Acatar is related to Amarin's imprisonment because that's how we learn about like the things related to the prison. So I will read what Emma wrote and then I will respond to to what she wrote with kind of my perspective. And then I'm happy to hear yours. So Emma MSN because based on

1:01:01 what we find out about the prison in Akimath Aquar, a court of Silver Flames and House of Flame and Shadow, at least one important player is lying about key timelines regarding the prison, the split of Prythian and the Faye exodus to Midgard. According to Amran, she was in prison before the Prythian Faye left for Midgard, but according to Celine, she created the prison after she returned from Midgard.

1:01:22 So several 100 years after the exodus. True, in Akamaf, Reese tells Farah that Ameren was in prison before Prithian was split into courts. True, but according to Celine, Prithian was split into courts while she was on Midgard, so before she created the prison. The Bone Carver story also disagrees with Celine.

1:01:40 According to the Bone Carver, he saw refuge in the prison before Prithian was split into courts when the forgotten fae warrior was rounding up his siblings. But in Celine's telling, Prithian is split into courts while she is on Midgard. Then she comes back and creates the prison. Amron is also sketchy about the timing of the Dread Trove.

1:01:59 She says that at the time she was imprisoned, only the mask, the harp, and the crown remained and that there was a lost fourth item. According to Celine, all four were in Prythian. Then Thea took the harp and the horn to Midgard. Then Celine comes back later with the harp. So in order for Ameren to be imprisoned when only the horn was missing, it has to be after Celine comes back with the harp. Disagrees with Celine's timeline, but also means that Ameren was imprisoned after the Exodus, not before. So I'll just say I think the summary from Emma is awesome. Emma, you did a great job if you're listening because I hope you are listening because you're in our Discord. So people who are in our

1:02:35 Discord, I feel like are generally listeners. This is awesome. I totally, 100% agree. I think we learned some things here that are important and the important things that we learn are that the people on Pythian don't necessarily know the the right answers and that Amarin is is kind of sketchy. So Reese, we hear a lot of these things like the Prythian data points from Reese and Reese just doesn't know like a lot of this history is a race and like Nesta and Azrael are learning it for the first time from Celine under the mountain. Like Nesta even looks at Azrael is like, does Reese know this? And Azrael is like, no, Reese does not know this. In fact, Reese says things that we having Red Crescent City know are literally impossible.

1:03:19 So Reese says that Ameren was in prison during fiance fall and came out when they were court. When there were courts, the prison did not exist. During fiance Fall, it didn't exist. So recess from what I've gleaned. From what I've gleaned, she arrived during those years before Fiona Gwidian rose and went into the prison during the Age of Legends, the time when this land was full of heroic figures who were keen to hunt down the last members their former masters race.

1:03:45 They feared Ameren believing her one of their enemies and threw her into the prison. When she emerged again, she missed Fionn's fall and the loss of Gwidian and found the High Lord's ruling. This is not possible because Fionn fell, then Thayer ruled, then the whole exodus and disaster happened where Celine locked everybody out and then she turned her home into the prison and then the prison existed. So I think Celine had to had to have imprisoned Amarin for both Amarin's, the things that Amarin has said and the things that Celine has said, to have worked for Amarin, to have gone in before there were formally courts and to come out when there were High Lords.

1:04:24 I think she had to go in when Celine was doing the roundup. I think we, I think, I think Ameren has to be lying because I think. I agree. Why do you think that? There is, because there is a distinct point where this story falls apart and it all happens within House of Flame and Shadow, right? So it's not across books. It's not across universes.

1:04:42 It is within one book. And the quote for that is she tells us that she went into the prison before there were rumors of people disappearing and migrating to another world. So the quote for that is, and this is a little long, so bear with me. So this is it then. This is Bryce talking. This is where we, the Midgard Fay, originated. My ancestors left this world and went to Midgard and we forgot where we came from.

1:05:05 Silence again. Azrael spoke in their own language and resent translated, perhaps resented. Been translating for Azrael mind to mind these last few minutes. He says we have no such stories about our people migrating to another world yet. Ameren let out a small choke sound Reese and turned slowly, a bit incredulous.

1:05:22 Do we? He asked smoothly. Ameren pinked out an invisible speck on her silk blouse. It's murky. I went in before dot dot dot. She shook her head. But when I came out, there were rumors that a great number of people had vanished as if they had never been. Some said to another world, others said they moved on to distant lands.

1:05:39 Still others that they'd been chosen by the Cauldron and spirited away somewhere. So Amarin is basically implying that this happens when she's in the prison, but we know that that cannot. Be the case. It is not possible. She had to have been out. The prison didn't exist. But she lies to find a time when she was lying when I think she had to have been lying in Aktar.

1:06:01 No, I think she only starts lying when Bryce shows up and she realizes the hysteria out there and she's like oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck. I think that's what's happening here, but we'll get into it more, I think, outside of our concept, yeah. But that for me is the smoking gun. She has to be lying.

1:06:15 Yeah. So yes, Ameren, I, I think had to be, well, who knows? Like she could have, she could have totally been lying in a guitar. I think it can line up that Ameren was imprisoned by Celine. I agree with you that she's lying to Bryce in in House of Flame. Flame and shadow. Yeah, flame and shadow, and I read them as a bundle.

1:06:35 I don't know what book is like the other light bulb moment, the other light bulb moment that I have and this I don't know if this is 100% true, but so Celine like basically rejects power, right, And says I'm going to marry this high Lord. Like I'm not going to tell you the story of how that came to be. And I'm just going to like try and atone for my sins. I'm going to turn my home into this prison. I'm going to round up all these like I basically, I went away, I absconded, I rounded up all of these people and then I went and wed this high Lord and created this line. Is she the ancient Fey warrior that was forgotten? I don't think so.

1:07:07 I don't think so because the phone Carver says her blood is gone in fae and only exists in humans and her bloodline is clearly not gone in fae. I have thought about this, however, are we going to talk about the monster that she hunts down? That's the pet of the Esteri? Yes, we are. OK, indeed. We'll talk about it. Yeah.

1:07:25 No, I, I, I I've gone down the is Saline, the ancient Fae warrior, but I don't think it works. Yeah, but I'm so curious who? Who that was I know. It was. Yeah, OK, moving right along. But great. Great work, Emma. Excellent. They're going to be so mad at you. Great work Emma, great work Emma we love. We're big fans of your work.

1:07:47 We agree that they don't align. I think it's largely due to Reese not knowing what the fuck he's talking about. However, Ameren also lies to Bryce's face. She sure does a couple of times. I'll talk. All right, Abby, what is Ameren Mass versus Edition? I had all these preamble notes. I'm just going to get into it.

1:08:04 I think she is probably an early prototype for an arc arch Archangel. Archangel. Archangel. I think she is probably a much more powerful version of an Archangel. We've talked about all the Angel vibes. Let's, let's get into the quotes here. I mean, I think she's probably a Steri, but there is possibility that she's Valg. So the quote is.

1:08:29 But I think, I wonder if my father knew, if he saw how I watched them love and hate and build. This is about the humans again. And open that RIP in the world, not as punishment, but as a gift. Her eyes gleamed. For it has been a gift this time, with you, with all of you. It has been a gift. Who can open a RIP in the world that we know about?

1:08:46 We have either an Asteri Wayfarer, right? That's what they call them, an Asteri Wayfarer. Or we have Valg who know word Marks and can open the rips in the world. But it's very Asteri coded, right? She's she's got light, she's got wings, she's got, she's got a Halo, right? She has all all these things that are very Asteri coded.

1:09:07 She has that crown of incandescent light when she kind of erupts into her true form on the quote for that is, and I could have sworn I saw great burning wings, each feather a simmering ember spread wide, could have sworn a crown of incandescent light floated just above her flaming hair. Bryce obviously has her crown of stars that we've talked about.

1:09:24 Hunt sees her have a crown of stars. We think that that came from Vesperus. Alan has a crown of flames that comes from Mala, right. So again, we're getting this idea that if you are kind of given enough a steri power, we think the Throne of Glass Gods or Steri, you can kind of listen to the powerful season if you want more on that, mostly our Nesta episode.

1:09:42 But like if you are kind of creative with this history power, you might get a crown that reflects the power of that steri. In this case, maybe Mala. Again, we might be dealing with Mala again, right? Because there's so much fire. So like, did Mala have a male form in this version in this world, whatever that was?

1:09:58 I don't know for sure on that either way. And then of course, she disappears and kind of this light, right? So Ameren reached the final boat, the very last ship of our enemy, and was no more than a flame on the breeze. And when that ship too fell silent, there was only light, bright, clean light dancing all the ways, bright clean light, various stereo codeds.

1:10:17 I definitely think that she was. And this is this is how it works with the Cauldron, right? She was made because she was made by the Asteria, but she was made by the Asteria on another world. So she does not have the connection to the Cauldron because the Cauldron is of this world that NASA has. So even though we think that they both have a Steri power, only Nesta has that connection to the Cauldron. On the other hand, just play a little devil's advocate here. We get some Mave vibes.

1:10:43 We get some Mave vibes. Everyone's powers described as dark power twice I believe and that is kind of the code word for Maeve's power. Also making people see nightmares that make it like we talked about this actor section, but making people see nightmares is exactly what Maeve does to the cater during the final battle if Kingdom of Ash, right?

1:11:02 Like that's exactly what she does kind of word for word. And then we get two different quotes about her dark power. And this is both both of these times were tied to when she is making people see things, right? So it's kind of they're referring to the same moment, which is this Maeve moment. So it's away from me, my power from Cassian and Azrael holding the river in the majority of the city away from Ameren, using whatever dark power she possessed to send so many droves of them crashing down with that visible injury.

1:11:31 So that's dark power one. And then with her dark power, she had spun illusion straight into the soldiers minds. They believe they had fallen into the Sedra and were drowning. They believed they were flying 1000 feet above and to head dives. I already read this. I don't think she's Valg. I think this points to the theory that we had last episode that the Valg and the Asteria at one point were kind of one race and that there are like bits of each in each of them, Right.

1:11:55 So I think there's still a little dark power in the Asteria potentially. I Yeah. I mean, I just think she is an Archangel, but she is a earlier prototype of an Archangel. Yeah. I think the only. Yeah, I would. I would like that. Assuming that like the earlier prototypes of Archangels were more powerful and they actually needed to dilute the power of the Archangels because they were too dangerous to the asteri. Because if I like compare Amarin to like Micah, like Amarin would would kick Micah to the curb immediately. Like curb stomp Micah no problem. And I think that's, and I do think that's probably what happened, right?

1:12:34 Because a Amarin left, right, Amron went away, right. So they're like, oops, that failed. Probably gave her too much power. Yeah. I don't know but yes I agree she seems way more powerful than Micah and maybe I'm saying archangels like kind of too loosely. I think she is an early prototype of an Asteri warrior.

1:12:53 And they probably realize they shouldn't give them so much power because they could they could overthrow them, which is the same pattern that we see with the Illyrians, right? The Illyrians obviously nowhere near as powerful as Amarin, but like the the Malachi on Midgard seem to have less power than the Illyrians, right? Like they don't really have much magic. They can fly and they have like general weather magic, but they don't have like what the siphons have. So I think that fits with the pattern potentially. Yeah.

1:13:20 Tell me what you're thinking. I'm just thinking like, what if we're like this would be this would be kind of crazy, but like what if we're missing a layer on the Asteri side? And why? The reason I say that is like we have we have a Valglayer that I'd be like the Valgasteri merger because we have the kings, right?

1:13:39 We have air one, we have Orcas, we have whatever the fuck another guy's name is Mantis and Air 1, the Mantex. Sorry sorry it's not important yet. The reason I bring that up is in Amrons form and also what seems to be inside her seems closer to a rigorous than a Micah or a Sandriel. That I agree with you that I don't think it doesn't seem like she's full Asteri, at least not a Steri like like Bright hand style.

1:14:15 Yeah, I agree. With theory. And So what if there's another layer like a God the Father style layer that's like senior to the Asteri that we are missing here? Yeah, I think that could totally like a Steri Prince and princesses basically, right? Yeah, I think that could be, yeah. We don't really know the hierarchy of it.

1:14:36 Or maybe she is not a really prototype of an Archangel. Had a thought, had a thought. It's gone. She never is. Like seen. No, no, I, I, I don't think she's full of steri because like, she's not locked in a lead sarcophagus underneath a mountain, you know, like she's kind of out and about. And we never see her consume magic.

1:14:55 She consumes blood. We never see the life out of people, though. She doesn't have the life out of people, which I forgot about, but that's only that one. When she's in her actual form, yeah. No, I know. Yeah. And drinking blood is kind of like drinking life. Yeah, it is, But she just doesn't quite.

1:15:12 I don't have evidence for this. I don't know how to have it. She. Doesn't she? Doesn't. She doesn't. Quite feel, yeah. She doesn't absorb other people's power, she doesn't feel full of steri, but she certainly feels close to and a steri mate 100%. Yeah, yeah, okay. What did I have for this question? So I agree with you.

1:15:31 I think she is a Steri coded and therefore kind of also throne of glass, God coded here, whatever relation that is. I think the only other thing that I had that would be materially different than what we talked about is the is the possibility of is there another world that we're going to get that we're going to get knowledge of that is related to Ameren? Like, is she going to introduce us to something else? Aylan fell through two other worlds that we didn't recognize, right?

1:16:00 She fell through. I think there was a world of grass and a world of oceans that we're not. There was a world of oceans, yeah. That we're not the two worlds that we know. So if Tamarin is being linked to our world like that, could that could still be? I think it could still be interesting. I think it could still work with the story, but it is. It could be like nothing we've seen before. She could be always possible, Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:24 But I do think it would be a little weird, given how much the Asteri and Archangels have mimicked classic Christianity already, to introduce like, real Old Testament style. Yeah, everything else and that. So I don't know. I agree anyways. OK, all right, all right. Ronnie, how does Amarin know about word marks?

1:16:49 I don't know how much context we want to get into on this one because we've already talked about a lot of it, but I'll summarize and say that there are several logosyllabic languages. Is that how you say that word? Logosyllabic. You're the only person I've ever heard say that word. I know you've said it so many Times Now that I just think that is how you say it. Hold on, quick Google.

1:17:08 Great. All right. There are several logosyllabic languages across the mass verse, and we have theorized that several of them might be the same. I don't think that's unreasonable. Namely, word marks, the Leishan Hakadash, which is the language in the Book of Breathings that Ameren is able to read, and the language of Bryce's tattoo.

1:17:29 If you are confused by that, I would suggest you go listen to our prior episodes if you want to hear more about that. Word marks are also described in Throne of Glass as whirls and swirls. In Prythian it seems like everything is described swirls and swirls. I'm just kidding. There are tattoos everywhere that are described as whirls and swirls.

1:17:48 Reese's tattoos are described as swirls and swirls. The tattoo that Pharaoh gets on her hand as part of their first bargain has whirls and swirls. And so there's the swirls and swirls imagery. How many times can I say this in one sentence everywhere? That is on Illyrians. And it's like a really just like common thing in Prythian.

1:18:06 And so if if whirls and swirls are also being described as word marks, like are we seeing word marks actually all over the place in Prythian? Ameren seems to have word marks in her magic. So in when they are stealing the book of briefings. We've already talked about this quote, but I'll just recap it here quickly because I think it's important. Cameron's blazing palm flattened against the door, burning, heating the metal whirls and whirls radiating out through it as if they were a language all her own. And then the door burst open.

1:18:37 So like her magic seems to be word marks. We have talked about where Ameren is from, what is Ameren? We've talked about the fact that she could be an Angel. The word marks could be the Leyshawn Hackadesh. I'll say that could be the Leyshawn Hackadesh. We've talked about the fact that she could be Asteri, and we think that potentially the word marks could be the language of the Asteri as well. Like I think she could be from the world apart from all of those theories regardless, independent of them. I think she could be from the world in which the word marks originate.

1:19:09 I think her magic inherently has the. Power. Regardless of the word marks actually are. Yeah. And that's why I think she knows about them. That's not a very long. That would be intriguing. That's not a very long answer. I'm trying to think of how to respond. I think that's a really, really great point. I took this question and kind of went in a different direction with it, which is I think OK.

1:19:30 I think it's definitely confirmed that word marks are what is coming out of Amaran. If they're word marks, though, I think we have to consider, I think we are going to get back to this point. We have to consider the fact that Amaran might be lying about her entire story. Word marks can open portals, right?

1:19:46 And in all of, or, sorry, in all of Akamai and all of Aqua War, what Reese is using to kind of convince Ameren to read the Book of Breathings is that there might be a spell in there to help open a portal back to her home world. If she knows word marks, if she can wield them, she doesn't need the Book of Breathings. She can just do it.

1:20:10 So why is she on Prythea? If if she even wants to go back, I don't know that she does. She might not want to go back, but like why? Why is like this isn't quite adding up, right? We talked about, and I'm going way off script here. I'm no longer talking about why she knows the word marks. I like your idea.

1:20:25 I think it's a good one. We talked about how she is probably lying about when she went into the prison. She's probably lying about how much she knows. I want to talk about the saline line if that's OK, because I think it's relevant. We have this line. See if I can find it. All right, so we've talked about how we think Amaran's lying about when she went to the prison. We have this line from Celine when she is in her hologram talking to Bryce, and she says she haunted down a being of blood and rage and nightmares beneath another mountain far to the South.

1:20:58 I will tell you when I read this, I at first thought we were definitely talking about the Bone Carver. I don't know that I still think that. I think this might be Amaran. So the quote is beneath another mountain far to the South. I'm thinking under the mountain, thinking that's the mountain. I found a being of of blood and rage and nightmares. Once a pet of the Esteri.

1:21:15 It had long been in hiding, feeding off the unwitting with the dagger and my power. I laid a trap for it, and when it came sniffing I dragged it back here, locked it in one of the cells, worded the door. I said I thought this was a bone Carver. I did. However, we get blood and rage and nightmares.

1:21:32 Amarin drinks blood. Amarin can spin and nightmares. The only other character this really fits is Briaxis, but Briaxis is not in the prison, right? Yeah. If this is about Ameren, then she is being described as a pet of the Asteri, which is very different than what we've been led to believe thus far about her role in all this. Right?

1:21:50 OK, so here's where things gets like, really fucking weird. There is a line that Bryce has in House of Flame and Shadow where Bryce says Bryce is talking about the history of Midgard. She says and this is about the Asteri. They arrived in my world 15,000 years ago. No one knows from where. What do you mean by arrived? And I have no idea how they first got to Midgard. The history they spun was that they were liberators and lighteners.

1:22:13 According to them they found Midgard a little more than a backwater planet occupied by non magical humans and animals. The Asteri chose it as the place to begin creating a perfect empire, and creatures and races from other worlds soon flocked to it through a giant RIP between worlds called the Northern Rift, which now only opens to hell, but used to be open to anywhere Ameren pushed a RIP.

1:22:36 How does that happen? Beats me. Bryce said no ones ever figured out how it's even possible. Why is that that spot in Midgar and not others? Why is Ameren, who came to this world through a RIP in the universe, asking how a RIP in the world is possible? She fucking knows how it's possible. She went through what? So why is she asking this question? Why is she asking how to open a RIP? Right?

1:23:00 I did not. I did not get deep into this for this episode and maybe I should have, but I think we might cover it more when we cover Crescent City. I was just going to say I haven't found this and this is just kind of a sidebar. I know you guys are always like oh, Sarah J Mass said this. Sarah J Mass said that.

1:23:13 It's actually really fucking hard to find what she actually said because TikTok is such an echo chamber and like when you Google Sarah J Mass interview, you just get video reactions of it. So I don't know that she said this for sure. However, there is a rumor that Sarah J Mass had said a member of the inner circle is going to betray the inner circle. Again, I don't know if she actually said that. My money, if that happens, is on Amarin. My money is on Amarin.

1:23:36 And that she might actually still have this connection to the Asteri, whatever it is, and that she might be. She might open a rope in the world and let them back in if she is this pet of the Asteri, right? Like if she has been this this whole time and again I don't think her actions in Acatar match that, but she acts really fucking weird in House of Flame and Shadow in my opinion.

1:23:59 In my agree, I think like most of her deception takes place in House of flame and shadow and there was one other so back to your so I also had and I had this in what is Amaran, but I had the like the monster under the mountain that Celine haunted down. I also thought like could that be Amaran? I think Celine imprisoned her.

1:24:18 We have her also described as rage when she is unleashed, so that would Oh yeah, we've got a match for blood, we've got a match for Rage, and we've got a match for Nightmares. So she could totally be that could be her. So maybe she is that first monster. She also lies so that I lied, I guess. I think she does live in ACOTAR. I think she lies about the origin of the Star Sword. Ameren says Oh yeah, that it was dipped into the Cauldron by High Priestess Oleanna.

1:24:45 Whoever the fuck that is. In Celine's memory we see Theon pull it out of the cauldron. So why is Amarin concealing Theon making and saying like High Priestess Oleana dipped the stars or dipped Gwit Ian into the cauldron? Well, why are why is she lying? What's? Interesting is if she is the pet, if she is the Asteri pet that Celine haunted down, Celine haunted her down with the dagger. And we know that the shadow creatures don't like Amarin, right?

1:25:13 So, like, I don't know. Yeah. And if the dagger is tied to hell and hell on this dairy have beef, then that would work. That would work. Yeah. I think we'll talk about it more in our Crescent City. Yeah, when we do that, probably. But. I guess the only reason she would pretend not to understand rips in front of Bryce would be to like suss out what exactly Bryce knows and be able to report back because like everyone else in that room knew.

1:25:43 Knows that she understood. How a RIP in the world would occur right? And also Bryce seemed to have just come from another world so like why the fuck would Bryce not know? Right, but she literally says how do you create a RIP in the world? How how would I do that? If, if one of if one of us wanted to do that, like how would we do that?

1:26:00 You know, because word marks only open temporary portals. It's a throne of glass thing. So yes, in conclusion, my thinking is if Ameren does the word marks, she has potentially been deceiving Reese this whole time because she could always go home herself maybe, I don't know. And she might be a pet of the Esteri.

1:26:17 So we're getting conflicting information on Amarin when you look at the whole Masters. And she's definitely lying about when she went into the prison because that is only in House of Flame and Shadow. Again, that is not across the whole Masters. That is only in that book and the timeline doesn't work out so.

1:26:31 I just feel compelled to say for people who are going to come at us and say they were being crazy. I think it's also fair to say that she might know about wordmarks but not know the exact wordmark required to open. And maybe she's reading the Book of Breathings to figure out what wordmarks she needs to. Open portal?

1:26:47 Sure, totally totally possible. It's less about the wordmarks, it's more about how she acts in flame and shadow. Yeah, yes, more about how she acts in flame and shadow. Yep. OK. All right, Precog corner. Do you have another one? I have like a throwaway one, but my main one was is Ameren Lucifer and we already got to all of my supporting Ameren doing fishy shit. So I can do I can do my throwaway, but you should go first.

1:27:13 All right. Mine actually kind of builds on yours from last week about Eris and was that last week or was that two weeks ago? I don't remember the release order, but about Eris and the Autumn King possibly being in communication, we know that communication between Midgard and the Faye homeworld is possible because Pelleus and Ridgelus do it in Crescent City, right?

1:27:37 So the quote for that or like the basically the quote for that is what the explanation we get is. Helius told her. This is when Thea is looking for another world because she wants both of her daughters to be able to rule their own worlds. Pellius found a Pelleus found a planet for her. Pelleus told her it was a world that the Daglin had long coveted but had not had a chance to conquer. An empty world, but one of plenty. She had no way of knowing that he had spent our era of peace learning ancient summoning magic and searching the cosmos for whatever remained of the Daglin on other worlds. Right.

1:28:09 So there is like, this idea of ancient summoning magic. And Pelleus does talk to original. Yeah. Talk to Ridgelus. And Ridgelus is on Midgard and Pelleus is on Prytheon at this point. At this point in time. Here's my follow up. What if it's not Eris and Einer talking? Eris and the Autumn King talking. What if it's barren and the Autumn King talking? Right, Here's why I think that might be true. What we are told about the Forest House, which is the seat of power at the Autumn Court, is that it goes deep underground. The Forest House was a sprawling complex, Lucian for me during the few times we risked or bothered to speak to each other. It had been built in and around the trees and rocks, and only its uppermost levels were

1:28:46 visible above the ground below. It tunneled a few levels into the stone, but it's sprawling all generated its size. You might walk from one end of the house to another and it would take you half the morning. There were layers and circles of sentries ringing it and the trees on the ground atop the Moss coated shingles and stones of the house itself.

1:29:02 So we have a well guarded sprawling complex that goes underground. We are also told that there are Asteri archives somewhere in this world. You're told that by Bryce, right? So Bryce's got churned. The Asteri must have kept archives and records on this world too. Exactly like the room, right? Bryce had found in the palace full of notes on conquered planets, dust they've labeled the room as if out of all of the world's mentioned within this world remain their focus, this place.

1:29:27 Why is Autumn Court the only one who agrees to go with Thea? Right. Why is Autumn Court the only one out of everyone on Pytheon who agrees to go with Thea? Is it because they have the Asteri archives and they know kind of what's up and they also want their own worlds to conquer and they think that this is the way to do it?

1:29:44 And has Baron found those archives? Maybe had those archives whole time? Yeah. And he's using the summoning matter to talk to the Autumn King. I don't know. I like it because I think it's basically the flip of so I think a popular opinion in the fandom is that because Reese has this Ori and Heiress knows things that he's not supposed to know. And Reese and heiress have this kind of like alliance and and a bargain that we don't understand that there may be like conspiring about other worlds.

1:30:12 And that heiress is maybe talking to Einer because heiress is in the Autumn Court. But if Baron is talking to Einer and Baron is trying to conspire to to conquer other worlds or to like do things, do sketchy shit with other worlds and Heiress and Reese like Reese has been canceled for this. Reese doesn't want to be high king like he has exemplified nothing. But I just want to be with my Kingdom, be with my friends, be with my mate, like I just want to be here. What if he and heiress understand what Baron is doing and are trying to basically work to counter it? That would make more it would be more consistent with Baron's sketchiness and with why Heiress would be so set on Baron not continuing to be High Lord.

1:30:54 Yeah, I think that totally agrees. And I think, and I did think about, well, what about the library? Obviously that goes deep underground and there's like a lot of stuff there, but there are so many priestesses working in that library, right? Like I think unless Reese is keeping like huge secrets, which he might be like, I think the library is a pretty well explored place within this. Yeah, ecosystem and autumn and the Forest House is not. And we have this throwaway line about the forest house, right? And like, why?

1:31:20 Why would it matter that the forest House goes underground, right? Why is that important? Why would she put that detail in there? Yeah, so that's what I'm thinking. That Baron is talking to the Autumn King and that heiress knows, but like and is probably feeding that information to Reese, right? Because like Reese also Cassian does not understand why Reese feels that heiress is so important, right? He doesn't understand why he's allying with Eris, why he needs to keep him in play if it's because Eris is his line to Midgard, basically.

1:31:48 I think that kind of makes sense. Again, precog theory just kind of out there kind of crazy. Yeah, I like it. All right, My throwaway precog. And the reason reason I'm calling it literally throwaway because you have to actually throw away everything we just talked about, like the window, and pretend that that wasn't what we decided that Amarin was. What if Amarin is Deanna?

1:32:08 Her eyes are the one part of the containment spell. That wasn't quite right. You called out that Deanna has this, like, silver flames power. Amarin's eyes glow with this silver power. She mentors Nesta, she says we're the same, you and I Nesta we think has the power of Deanna. And we haven't talked about this in too much detail yet, but I think Aylan probably sent the gods to hell, not killed them. Aylan sent the gods to literally a hell realm. So the quote for that is.

1:32:40 The gods began shouting, running towards her as Aylan ripped open a hole in their sky, right into a world she had only seen once, had accidentally opened a portal into one night in a stone castle. Distant bang howls, cracks from the bleak Gray expanse, a portal into a hell realm, a door now thrown open. Alan was still smiling when she closed the archway into the gods world and left them to it, the sounds of their outrage frightened screams ringing out.

1:33:06 So I think in Bernal glass they like say that they killed the gods. I don't think they killed the gods, I think they just banished them too. Oh yeah, another realm. So like could Ameren be Deanna Would be crazy. My only counter to that is that she says we're not the same to Nesta. She says not. She says you're the same, you and I. But then she says, not in the power that like prowls, not in the thing that prowls beneath our skin. I mean, that would be a lot of other reasons that that's not the case, but I was like, what else could Ameren be? That's that would be crazy.

1:33:34 Sending the gods to hell is such an interesting idea and we need to think about it in terms of our big universe theories. I think you are right, but I don't know that we need to do that this season. I actually think it's a separate, yeah. I think it's part of our Throne of Glass. Throne of Glass probably, or maybe our Preston City season. But I think it's how the it's Terry got to hell. Probably, yeah.

1:33:57 I mean, I think that makes sense. I think that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Cool. Right. What are you reading, Kingdom? Of Ash, what are you reading? I am reading. I'm reading House of Flame and Shadow, but wait, no, I'm reading House of Sky and Breath. I don't know. I'm reading the Crescent City Bundle.

1:34:11 I literally don't know what book is but I also read. I did read 1 dark window and I finished it. Of course, how was it the Shepherd? King duology. It was good. I really liked it. I can't really tell you how I actually felt about it without giving too much away. I will say like I don't think it's the book you're looking for right now because it's like it is like a narrow.

1:34:31 Obviously it's a duology so the world isn't overly large or complex, but it's not it's also not particularly spicy. It's actually barely anything and I would say it's more just like good fantasy story, but it's written obviously pretty standalone and it's just it's not like a smutty, mindless read. It's not.

1:34:51 For our listeners, what Ronnie is referring to is that last night on Instagram, I put out a plea because I was like, Oh my God, like I'm about to finish Kingdom of Ash. I need something like fun and spicy and then I don't have to think about it all. So I've put out a plea. I've gotten some good answers. Maybe I'll share them on Instagram. Like I was like anything that is spicy but mindless, which there I'm sure there are a lot of books that fit. Yeah, yeah.

1:35:16 I think that's like actually a proper genre, unlike romanticity which seems to just be what they do to fantasy with romance that was written by a woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so soon. Soon I will hopefully be on to a mindless read and then I'm going to have to reread Quicksilver because it turns out I remember fuck all about Quicksilver. I know I also I do think rereading Quicksilver is in my very near future.

1:35:44 Yeah, our Discord was paying it. We've created a channel on our Discord to talk about Quicksilver, and they're like, Oh my God, like, and what's up with the witches? And I was like, there are witches in this book, what are you talking? About yeah, yeah, I know. I don't remember like the names of things which I feel like it's going to be a problem so. No, it's I'm going to have to read it. Can I read it?

1:36:04 But cool. Yep. All right. OK, awesome. Well, thanks for listening. We are on social media. We're on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube as Dragons in the details pod is our handle. We also have a Discord. It's LinkedIn, the bio of all of those social media profiles, but it is Dragons in the details server.

1:36:25 Dragons details POD server. I think it's POD no, but Dragons in the details server. I think I say that wrong every episode. Yeah, I think I, I think I actually notice it every time. But then I'm convinced that I'm wrong and you're right. No, no. So I'm like, whatever. We have a website, dragonsinthedetails.com. We have a contact form on that website. If you want to give us feedback, ideas, series, you're welcome to.

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