ACOTAR: The Bone Carver Deep Dive | Prythian lore, Ties to Crescent City, Connections to Throne of Glass, and more!

0:00 Before the land was carved up and any high Lord was crowned, I took it upon myself to find my way here. That's a very says that. Which is fucking crazy, yeah. He's not a prisoner guy, it's a. Cranky thing to say. I'm not willing to put my hand on my heart and say the bone Carver is a prisoner. I like your sweater.

0:33 Tis the season. Tis the season. I know I'm wearing my green sweater and I have my red nails and I'm like, fuck yeah. Yeah, I think this will come out actually after the new year, but we are on a marathon of recordings right now and it's all basically the week of Christmas. I don't know, I can't remember if I'd mentioned this podcast on this podcast before, but there's a podcast called Streaming Things and they are a stranger.

0:57 Well, they started as a stranger things, like deep dive podcast, like kind of like what we do, but for stranger things. Interesting. And for season 5, I believe what they did, because they do it episode by episode, even though all of the episodes come out at once. They they like basically did a marathon of they watched the episode and then recorded the podcast And I think then maybe even edited and released the podcast.

1:19 And then they watched the nest episode and it was like every six hours, like a new podcast was coming out. I was like, my gosh fuck, are you guys doing this? This is. Outrageous. Was that like their work day was like watch episode, record podcast, edit podcast, release podcast, end of work day? Yeah. I mean, I think that's, I think this is their job. I think this is what they do because it's become like a very successful podcast.

1:42 But like, yeah, I mean, I think they were just, but, but Stranger Things came out on Thanksgiving. So I think this is like their Thanksgiving, like they just watched Stranger Things. It's a great podcast. You should definitely check it out. But if you like Stranger Things. I also, this might elicit some strong responses, but I am like lukewarm on Thanksgiving as a holiday. Like I see myself eventually becoming a vacation over Thanksgiving type of family.

2:10 Yeah. So I'd be pro. I'd be fine with Thanksgiving becoming that type of that type of. Yeah, Once I started cooking professionally, my family was kind of like, great, you can cook Thanksgiving dinner now. And I'm like this is so much work I don't want to do this. Actually, no, not the best. Thank you. So I totally agree with you.

2:33 Did you watch the trailer for Heated Rivalry that I sent you? However, however, now I have context because ever since we spoke about heated rivalry, my socials have not stopped pushing heated rivalry, heated rivalry anything like yeah. Because they're listening. Talks of the actors at the Actor Awards. The reactions of people in a bar to like random romantic scenes of them kissing on the ice.

3:03 Yeah. I could just anything. So I've seen nothing related to actually promoting the show, but I've seen endless just social influencer marketing. Yeah, so yesterday. In our world yesterday, real yesterday I told you that I would start watching it. You would be. Yesterday I told you I'd started watching it, but I couldn't quite get through it.

3:25 Yeah, but last night we gave it another try and I think we watched. There's two episodes left. We got through all that. We got through 4 episodes, except like the last two left. And it's not bad. It's interesting. It's so funny that it's the biggest problem with it. I do recommend it. It's fun. It's a good holiday watch.

3:44 OK, It takes place. There's kind of an A plot and AB plot and one of the episodes only focuses on the B plot and it is so good. It's such a good episode of TV and the A plot. The issue is it takes place over 8 years. So we just get these. Kind of romance plot, the A plot or the B plot? Or they're both A plot or B plot?

4:05 OK, the A plot and the B plot are both romance plots, not yes. So we have. It's all romance. It's romance and hockey. Those are the only two things that happen in the show. Romance and sure the A plot are the main characters Shane and Ilya and like their kind of relationship. And then we have Kip and Scott as our B plot and it's their relationship and all of these relationships are dealing with like being attracted to men and being hockey players and it's really good.

4:35 But the B plot, at least is what what I've watched off to now is like 1 episode that takes takes place over like it's a contained story within a couple months and it's like a full story. And the A plot is like just giving you these like scenes over 8 years and they're like not kind of quite cohering.

4:52 And I'm like, I think I think the B plot might be better than the A plot, but the story's not over yet. So I'm like not ready to like say that, but it's it's interesting. It's worth watching. I also saw hilarious onion post which I quit, which I keep quoting to Derek because the sex scenes in the show are like very realistic. So like I think there's been like, wait, are they like really having sex?

5:13 And but obviously they're not. But then there's like there's a there's an Onion post and the cat. The question was, are the hockey scenes in the show real? And the answer was yes, it is illegal to depict fake hockey in Canada, which I just keep quoting every time I watch it. That's pretty good. Good job, The Onion.

5:32 Good job, The Onion. Yes, I mean, after seeing I again, literally, I can't stress enough before you told me about this show one day ago. In our time, one day real. Time. I had no idea it existed. Now it seems like the entire world knows about it and I just don't know how I did not. That's why I wasn't sure how you didn't know. Now I feel like I have to watch it. Yeah, now it's enjoyable.

5:58 It's enjoyable. Even Derek has been like, okay, it's it's I'm interested. I meant to, yeah. I do like hockey. That's OK. So this is what I was going to say. One really funny aspect of this show. It's a Canadian show. I don't know what the budget is, but it feels very, to me, it feels like the sets are very obviously like they have one apartment, they have one apartment and they keep rearranging the furniture or getting different furniture to make it look like different apartments. Every time there's a fancy party, it happens in the same building, even though they're different parties. The set design, I'm like, OK, I see it's it's OK, it's OK. But like, I'm pretty sure you're just reusing the same that's over and over.

6:36 OK. I'll see if you agree when you see it. Yeah, yeah, interesting. I guess I will have to start watching TV again. It's the holidays, you got the time. Maybe I was going to say, maybe not. We'll see about that. And now all I want to do is read books and be alone, and that's not happening. But it's OK. Yeah, Yep, we had winter solstice dinner last night. Lovely.

7:02 Yeah, we had three of our friends came over and Connor made. I'm going to absolutely butcher this, butcher the pronunciation of this, but I believe it's Kokovan. Did I say that right? I don't know. To me you did. I'm not French. I'm not French either, so French listeners, you can laugh at me because I'm sure that that was laughable. But we we actually didn't even use we didn't use the sous video, which I guess is probably correct. We used like a Dutch a Dutch oven. But we for the first time, which I feel like is probably wrong, use the base like the base.

7:36 We put mashed potatoes. It's like the base on the plate. I've never had it. Oh that sounds delicious though. Oh my God, going to soft up all that sauce. Really good. Yeah, that sounds the sauce. The sauce and mashed potatoes was excellent. Yeah. And that was like our Christmassy dinner with friends. That sounds really nice.

7:55 Pretending that we were the inner circle, even though nobody else in that group knew what the inner circle. I was going to say, was it Pharah's birthday celebration? It was. Pharah's birthday dinner? Yeah, No, I had one friend there who had read the entire Masters, so she got it. But lovely, the three men.

8:09 I had no idea. Not a clue. Well, hi, I'm Ronnie. I'm Abby. And this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. We are currently covering A Court of Thorns and Roses, the series also known as Acatar by Sarah J Maas. Disclaimer These episodes will contain spoilers for the entire Acatar series.

8:36 We will announce any other masks for spoilers ahead of time and we keep them to the second-half. So if you're new here, we have an ACOTAR only spoiler section. We have a mass versus spoiler section. We announce it ahead of time so that if you have not read Crescent City and Throne of Glass, you can leave and not be spoiled.

8:51 Other disclaimer, This podcast is rated R. Do not listen to it with your children. We don't recommend it. We curse. Also, these are adult books, so they have adult things in them. Each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are digging into digging into It wasn't intentional, but I guess he's underground.

9:10 Everyone's underground. Everyone's. Favorite inmate? The bone Carver. We come with receipts. We will have quotes to back up any theories so you can follow along if you're skeptical. Announcements, Abby. As always, a deep dive music this week brought to you by Schwidley. You guys might know him as Derek by now, also known as Derek staring out on Spotify. That is SCHWOODLEY.

9:34 That's our only real announcement, but we are going to plug as always, if you like us, please like, rate, comment, subscribe wherever you might listen to us. We love hearing from you guys. I think you know by now we always try to interact with comments. We try to interact with as many as we can and we love hearing from you. And lastly, our final plug of this section, which we have decided to actually enshrine in our outlines is we highly recommend that you read the mass first. We are encouraging you to read the mass first. We love our acts are only listeners. We love our acts are only sections. But if you really want to get into the nitty gritty and the details and the theories and the

10:12 like, Oh my God moments, we highly recommend that you read the Mass first. We know it's a lot of books. We know a lot of you are reading the Mass version are going to come back and listen to our episodes when you're done, which is so great. Guys. We we love that. That's wild. That's a lot of homework. So thank you very much.

10:28 But also appreciate it. Here's the way I rationalize it. Right. Like, if you care enough about A Court of Thorns and Roses to be listening to a podcast like this, it's worth your while. It's worth it, I totally. Agree, obviously, like at your own pace, at your own leisure. And I've had book burnout like you.

10:45 You've frankly read them too fast. Don't do, don't do what Abby did. Don't do what Abby did and read them in three months. That was ill advised. I also actually I was like prepping for this episode or for our next episode, I don't remember, and I was rereading Silver Flames and I'm like, should I just reread Silver Flames over Christmas while I have some time? I.

11:06 Feel the way about piano class all the time. Yeah, we'll see. I love it. Yeah, one last thing. If you are wondering, we did in our Christmas the special which has come out at this point go pretty deep into how we think you should read the Mass first. It is kind of dealer's choice, but we did leave some recommendations there. So if you want to hear them, go listen to our Christmas or holiday special, our Winter Solstice Special. Winter Solstice Special.

11:30 We don't actually know if we titled it that yet, but now I guess we have to. The title is TBD title, you'll know what we're talking about. Yeah, it's the special. It's the special yes. Love it. All right, all right, with that, Corrections, omissions, social media shoutouts. Also known as cousins.

11:50 Abby, do you have any to share with the class? I have one hold on. All right, This is a comment that we got on our library deep dive that we released today, and this is just a fun little shout out. I just thought it was a really great comment and I'm like, I should read this out. All right, so this comment is from Jay Gang on Spotify and they were, I believe, responding to our question about what books the bad boys would read.

12:13 I don't even remember what we said, but Jay Gang commented Cassian definitely would read The Art of War. Azrael is the guy who would read the Bell Jar and bought the hardcover special edition. Reese has read The Wheel of Time for fun, but also Cosmos by Carl Sagan. Yes, I think it's perfect. I have no notes.

12:32 Azrael absolutely bought the hardcover edition of the Bell Jar. I think that's perfect. A Reese reading Cosmos is perfect on so many levels that I just fucking love. I agree with Cassian reading The Art of War, but I maintain that he did not read that until he was at least 300 years old. I don't think child Cassian was reading The Art of War, but I agree that he would read it.

12:54 So thank you, Jay Gang. If Reese lived in a version of Prithian that had film in any way, shape or form, he would absolutely be watching anything and everything Morgan Freeman narrated. I'll put it that way. Marsha, the Penguins guy. I'm more was thinking like, didn't he please hold? I'm holding.

13:15 I was thinking of something specific. I was thinking of Through the Wormhole. Actually. Do you remember that? I don't even know what that is, no. That was a great one. That was a great one, but I believe there was a more recent Netflix movie called Art. It's like something like The Universe or Our Universe or something that Morgan Freeman narrated.

13:34 Also very astrology, Astronomy, astronomy, astronomy. That's the one. That's the one. Cosmos oriented. Reese does love the stars for sure. Loves the stars. Loves the stars big star guy. Anyones been commenting on our Instagram about star adjacent people? I've been saying yeah because they're motherfucking star porn.

13:55 Just makes me laugh. It makes me chuckle. Star Boys. Our Star Boys. Star Boys love it. All right, I have a couple cousins. So one is actually from I don't often stalk the Instagram, but when I do and I find something that I think it's funny or just a good point, I'd call it out. So in our High Lords episode, we talked about how the Supreme Court is seemingly totally airless.

14:21 And someone made a great point, Mel Mitchell, 90 on Instagram. And you responded that you thought it was a great point that it is totally possible that Tamlin does have children, seeing as he does get laid every year in this great right? So like, maybe there is an error, maybe there, maybe there are many children, many out there.

14:46 We have no way of knowing whether these maidens get knocked up or not. Frankly, so horrifying. Horrifying. Horrifying. But. Well, that's what happened with Gwynn. Oh, yeah, true. So Gwynn was born of a great right. Yeah. Who's to say that somebody else out there wasn't born of a great right with our high Lord at the Spring Court? So.

15:08 So it's a good point. It's a fairpoint. There is a Spring Court air that we are unaware of. That would be kind of crazy. But you know, the actor series is certainly far from over. So we'll see. And then I have one other shout out that I think is, is actually great that I that I did not think of when we were talking about high Lord's power and the great right and this kind of plot hole that we were discussing where the great right is this thing that we're told every court does that then seemingly no other courts do. Like, let's just lay it out there that way. Creative LBD on TikTok pointed out that in chapter 54 and 55 in a court of mist and fury, everybody knows what happens in those chapters.

15:53 But just to recap Pharaoh and Reese mate, I'll leave it there. Happened happened during Kalanmine. We find that out in Akor and Pharaoh says, I wonder if we generated our own magic that night and creative LBD pointed out like that had kind of hunter and maiden vibes. So the comment was, you know, is there is that just the night and is the right kind of the same across all courts?

16:23 I think it's an interesting point. I guess my my question then is like, has Reese just been knowingly or unknowingly, like hooking up with a maiden every single year? How many years was that, Amarantha? Like, kind of horrifying to think about. Yeah, don't love it, but I think it's a fairpoint. It was called out that that instance, at least with Vera, did occur.

16:47 I don't know what happened for the 49 years yeah or frankly before that like what was going on with Reese Like how did he how did he do that? Did somebody stand in for him? Is that even their great right? There's lots of fun ideas that people commented about the night court great right. Like we have the blood right. Does it like vary by core is a specific to the magic is a Starfall Yeah.

17:08 One thoughts around the snowball fight like I don't know if it's that one. I would love it. But Starfall is interesting, right, because like Reese very much says that Starfall is not about him. But it would make more sense right. Like the spring court being tied to the land and really just the seasonal courts being tied to the land makes more sense because the magic is about the land there.

17:26 Like the land magic kind of ties that land to a season, whereas the solar courts are they experience seasons. So it's more tied to like to to a solar element. Yeah, to the sun or to the stars or something like that. So, yeah, I haven't seen it. Starfall. I have a lot of questions about Starfall. At this point. I don't really have any answers about them, but like, if their souls traveling across the sky and then they land on your face, did they not get where they were going? Is this in fact a fucking horrifying thing that's happening that we think is cute?

18:00 I don't know. That we experience like a cute moment with Pharaoh and Reece when there's a dead soul on your. Face. There's literally just, they're covered in basically, yeah, a dead body. I don't know. I don't know, some point we'll talk about Starfall, but that day is not today. I'm clear. Yeah, unclear. All right, fun question.

18:20 I wrote 2. We can either answer both or just pick which one we like better. First One question. Which character would the Bone Carver be best friends with if you weren't stuck in the prison? What do you think, Abby? Like, I'm inclined to say Pharaoh because that's who he hangs out with the most.

18:33 I don't know. I don't know. I think I think I'll just go with Farrah, maybe Nesta. Actually, I think Nesta and the bone Carver would get I think I think he would like a that she's something different. He's very into something new, something different and BI think he would like her give no fucks attitude.

18:48 Basically. That's why I think that's my answer. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, they'd be friends. What about you? Well, I was thinking the cereal because they're both gossips, but I was also kind of thinking Greece because I know that the bone Carver thinks that Reese is funny. That's true, yeah. The bone Carver was like, tell me a secret and Reese's like my knee.

19:10 To my knee hurts, yeah. He was like, you were always, I think, yeah, I don't know. I think I like Nesta as an answer in that they would be more kindred spirits. Yeah, but I think the bone Carver would be more entertained. Like gossip. Gossip with cereal or Reese. Honestly, I kind of think Reese is the gossip too. Well, the Bone Carver is always kind of after secrets and truths, and the serial in theory knows them. So maybe Elaine is also an answer to your too. Yeah, maybe Elaine, Yeah, although Elaine doesn't have a very strong stomach, so.

19:44 That's true. She might see the bones and frankly just pass out. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And then my second one was more in line with the last few questions that we've had, which was which modern TV show with the Bone Carver been binge watch? God, I don't know. I'm not watching them. I can go first, since I made you go first last time. In the vein of gossip.

20:06 I think he'd love Bravo. I think he loved reality TVI think he just wants to watch the world burn. Yeah, his own sick little way. Yeah, I think that's a good. I think that's a good one because he says he wants to Euro Burroughs, which is a window to the world. Bravo is certainly, I know is certainly a window to them.

20:29 Yeah, I like that. I'm just going to 2nd your answer. I think I have nothing. I was like maybe he'd like Pluribus. That was like, no, I like pluribus. That's why I'm saying. Yeah, I'm trying to think what else he like, enjoys death. Maybe like Jeopardy, maybe he'd like true crime because he likes to hear about people's deaths.

20:52 Yeah, I think he'd like Dateline. Dateline. Yeah, Dateline. Would work. I think that's a good one. Yeah, yeah. OK, Dateline and Bravo Dateline watches both. Perfect. And he listened to Morbid. Dateline for the deaths, actually, yeah. Maybe I was going to say, maybe he listens to my favorite murder because it's funny and true cry.

21:16 Yeah, yeah. Fair. Yeah. OK, love. Great. All right. Shall we deep dive? Yes, we shall. All right, Abby, what are the Bone Carver's powers? All right, once again. Not a super long list here, but I think a very interesting list if we look up at it. So the first one and the most obvious 1, he can change his appearance depending on who's looking at him.

21:46 So if he is not a shifter, he is. I believe I've heard you call him an illusionist, which I think is a good description for what he is. He will appear to different people as different things at the same time. So it's not like everyone sees the same thing when they're looking at him. People see different things. So the quotes we have for that are who is he? This is in Akimath chapter 18.

22:08 Who is he? What is he? This is Pharaoh talking. I'd only been briefed in what I was to say, nothing of what to expect, No doubt to keep me from panicking too thoroughly. No one knows. He'll appear as he wants to appear shapeshifter. Yes and no. He'll appear to you as one thing, and I might be standing right beside you and see another. So that is Pharaoh and Reese talking before they go to see him.

22:30 I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we have another character in this world. Who? Who actually does that? We have characters that can appear as different things, but they are appearing as different things to everyone, right? So we have Lanfus turning into winter, winter rain. We have Koche appearing a shadow, and then we have Shriega, who I believe appears only in one form, but people don't see them differently.

22:53 But you look like you have an idea, so maybe I'm wrong. I. Agree with you that we don't have anything really confirmed, but doesn't the I thought that the boggy appeared like when you looked at it, it looked like just something unique to you. Yeah. So I actually have this quote here. I did pull that. I said buggies kind of similar.

23:15 The quote we have for that again. This is Feyra and Lucian talking in the Supreme Court. This is actor chapter 10. What was that? I asked, brushing the tears from my face. Lucian's face was still pale. You don't want to know, please. Was it that surreal you mentioned Lucian's russet? I was dark as he answered coarsely.

23:32 No, it was a creature that should not be in this lands. We call it the Boggy. You cannot hunt it and you cannot kill it, even with your beloved ash arrows. Why can't I look at it? Because when you look at it, when you acknowledge it, that's when it becomes real. That's when it can kill you. So I thought it was what you said too, that kind of when you look at the boggy, it like kind of becomes your worst fears, which is really more of a three access thing. But we'll talk about that later.

23:55 But I think it's more like when you, when you see it, that's when it becomes real, which I don't know if you've watched Doctor Who, but there are there are these Doctor Who statue demons. I can't remember what they're called, but it's a very similar idea where when you look at the statue, that's when like it becomes real or that's when it will kill you. Or maybe it's when you look away from the statue. I think I'm butchering this, but I'm sure one of our listeners knows what I'm talking about.

24:19 Yeah, yeah, quote is not the moment I was thinking of. That makes sense. When it was when she saw her father, she like looked at it and she saw her father and then she looked back and she saw something else. And maybe like the reason I say it is because we don't have confirmation that it doesn't look the same to everybody when it looks like something. But it is implied that when you look at it, you see something specific to you.

24:44 Yeah, I think the same kind of for Bri access. So I agree with you that it's not this might be very well like unique to the bone Carver in this world, but we have like concepts, certainly similar things. Yeah, we have creatures that will appear to something that is unique to your past. But what I don't think they can do what I think is unique to the bone Carver is appearing as multiple different things to different people at the same time. Yeah, I think that's unique.

25:10 Yeah. And with Brie Axis, I just have we don't actually know. He said to appear as people's like kind of worst nightmare. So that's the implications we get in the Battle of Highburn. He's described as a swirling shadow above a creature like form. So obviously he can like he does have a form, he can hold it, but then he also like appears to Cassian as his worst nightmare.

25:29 So similar idea, but we haven't seen that thing where it's multiple points of view for different things. Yeah. But the exception of obviously, if you like, consider this not really being a magic that's unique from being de Modi, right? Yeah. OK. So the next thing I'm going to say, he appears and I've put quotations around, appears to have some insights into the future and we've talked about this.

25:56 So he appears to Farah as Nix. I don't think I need to read a quote for that. We know that. But Nix without wings, right? So like maybe he was telling the future, maybe he was guessing, maybe he could you know, we know that Lanthus could send the mating bond between Nesta and Cassie and maybe the bone Carver was doing something similarly and like guessing like, oh, this is what your son would look like, because I know that your mates and I'm trying to tell you that your mates and give you a little hint.

26:21 So maybe it was the future. Maybe it wasn't quite the future. Maybe he didn't know that Reese had wings at that point because Reese was didn't have his wings out. So maybe it. Was a little bit of. Guesswork on his part, and then he appears to Reese as Jurian, which is a character that's relevant to Reese's future but also existed in Reese's past.

26:38 So it's kind of hard to say on that one. Next thing I have, he seems to be able to tell if people are telling the truth, which more can't do. If you will recall, even though her power is supposed to be true, the bone garbage seems to actually be able to do it. And the quote we have for that is this is again, favorite talking. This is Akimov chapter 18.

26:57 Hello. I breeze. The boy's smile was a mockery of innocence. Are you frightened? Yes, I said never lie. That had been Reese's first command. So we don't actually have the bone Carver saying I will know if you're lying to me. But we have Reese saying never lie to the bone Carver. Right. Which implies that the bone Carver will know if you're lying to me. Yeah.

27:17 Did you have something? We'll just to add on to that one. And it's, it's kind of implied, but like the reason that the Bone Carver is visited in the 1st place, I assume is in addition to the fact that he's quite old. Like he just knows. The inner circle assumes that he just knows things that are true.

27:35 You can tell when you're lying, but he also just seems to know truths. Like Reese goes to him to confirm things. You know that the Cauldron can do this. Like do you know that Jurian can be brought back? And the Bone Carver is like confirming things to be true. So you can detect lies, but he also seems to just know things. Yeah.

27:57 I think that's a great point. Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of unclear. Like it's not really explicitly stated whether it's because he has context or whether he just knows, whether he just knows. Yeah. Right. And. Favor even. Yeah. Was it the wind whispering to him? Farrah even says, oh, you already suspected about the cauldron, right?

28:16 And he says, like, I wanted the bone Carver to confirm it for me. I'm paraphrasing. I don't think that's exact quotes. But yeah, that's a good point that like he is kind of like the I don't even know what analogy I'm going for, but he's who you go to when you want to know the truth. He's the Wikipedia of Pythian. The last thing we get in the prison, and then we're going to talk a bit about like his war powers. What we see him do in the Battle of Highburn is he seems to be able to talk to the land.

28:44 He says, and this is Akawar. Chapter 22. What if I told you what the rock and darkness and sea beyond were whispered to me, Lord of bloodshed, How they shuddered in fear on that island across the sea, how they trembled when she emerged. She took something, something precious. She ripped it out with her teeth. We've had a lot of people talk about hearing the wind. I don't think we've had anyone say that they can hear the rock talking to them.

29:10 Ameren says the rock beneath this house has ears, but she does not say that she can hear it right. But the bone Carver is saying here that he can hear the rock, which I think is interesting. So now with battle powers, we have kind of 1 interesting 2 interesting things here. So he can desiccate basically hundreds of soldiers with the wind when him and Shriega are on the battlefield.

29:32 The corpse that they leave behind are described as husks. So the quote forget we get for the is the bone Carver fought near Brie axis. No weapons to be seen beyond a scimitar of ivory of bone in that male's hands. He swept it before himself as if he were threshing wheat. Soldiers drop dead before it with barely a blow laid upon them. Even that fae body of his could not contain that lethal power stifle it.

29:55 So he literally just has like this power of death that is like sweeping out from him right. And then the second quote we now for that bodies fell before them. Bodies were left in their wake, some mere husks in case an armor drained by the Carver and Striga. Some fled from what they beheld and Briaxis, the face of their deepest fears. So he's like literally just draining the lifeout of people just by swinging his bones scimitar here, which is like a crazy ability to have.

30:22 And Cassian even says, I think after the first time him and fair would go to visit the Carver that his his skills on the battlefield were legendary. This is pretty legendary. This lines up with that. And then the last thing thing we get, I'm sorry, this wasn't actually a battlefield thing, but I wanted to point it out because we keep on seeing this.

30:38 It's a pattern. He also seems to have kind of a crazy sense of smell or an ability to smell certain things. So when he meets Cassie and he says to him, I can smell the wind on you. That's Akawar. Chapter 22. And then when Faber goes back a second time to bargain with bargain with him, she goes to the prison after the battle in summer Court.

30:57 And what the bone Carver says is you reek of blood and death. The Carver breathed in a great one, full of the air of my scent. He's like smelling her. He's smelling the battle on her. I don't know if this is actually a scent thing or if it's kind of what you said before, that he seems to know truths and he's just saying it as if it were a scent thing. But he definitely is given insights into the world that he shares tidbits of with the people who are coming to to visit him.

31:21 I mean that the I Can Smell the Wind on You, I think is clearly an Illyrian reference with Cassian, which isn't that crazy. So that's what I had. What did you have? Yeah, I had the sense of smell as well. I had a couple other things. I think you had all the same, like major ones for sure. And then I had a couple just like minor, minor potential things.

31:42 You mentioned the wind speaking to him and the land speaking to him. That death power is also at some point described as deadly wind. And that quote is where the Bone Carver was gleefully shredding apart soldiers, draining the life from them, and sweeps and gusts of that deadly wind. So we've talked about wind and its ties to various creatures in this world. Seems to be very much tied to the Bone Carver as well, and seems to be especially deadly in his freed form. He also seems to have this blue flame in his eyes and a few points across both books that we speak with him in Akamaf and Akka War.

32:23 In chapter 18 of Akamaf, when we first meet him, Pharaoh's saying wondering if the blue flame in the carver's eyes might burn my ruined soul to ash. And then in Aka War, twice we hear about flame in his eyes. The carver's Violet eyes flared bright as flame, and then the carver's eyes burned like the hottest flame. So we hear about flame in really only one other character's eyes in this series, and that's Nesta's, right. So again, like this death power parallel potentially or something else, I don't know.

32:54 But Von Carver has flame in his eyes. And it's usually tied to, in these cases, it's tied to like, intrigue with Farah. Does Amber not also have flame in her? Eyes. She does, She does before. She's before she's like, yeah, you know, undone. Undone. Unmade, I guess before you, you know what I mean, before she is rid of her power mostly. And then the only other thing that I had on his powers is that he might and this might be just like futile because he has so much more than this.

33:28 So he of course, probably has this, but he may have Damati powers and that's an Accor Chapter 40 recent favor, basically talking mind to mind. And yeah, the bone Carver jumps in and says it's rude majesties to speak when no one can hear you. So he clearly is aware. And maybe it's just contextual, like maybe they're looking at each other and like in the same way that the inner circle can tell, like, all right, they're clearly having a conversation right now. Like maybe he can tell, but also maybe maybe he can just hear. Yeah, I thought about this one because when we were talking about Klotho for the library deep dive, I was like, oh, can the bone Carver do it too?

34:04 But I got to where you were at, where it's like, it could just be that. It's like a knowing glance between friends, you know, like, you know, when someone's telling an inside joke. But yeah, it could be that he could overhear them, which would be kind of crazy. Yeah. And when you think about it, if you were a being that has the ability to be able to present in a form that means either a deeper deepest desire or a deepest fear of whoever is looking at you, it would be kind of shocking if you didn't. Yeah, you have sort of mind reading ability. So, yeah, again, I don't think that's a particularly insightful.

34:38 Yeah. Observation if the bone Carver has mind reading abilities, but I think it's it's something to note when you have certain people in his presence that he has that mind reading ability. Yeah, Yeah, I would agree. Cool. OK, Ronnie, next question. Why did the Carver want Farrah to look in the Uroboros?

34:59 Yes, so. The Bone Carver, for context right tells Farrah to retrieve the Herberus mirror in order for him to aid them in their battle. And that's in ACOR chapter 23. He says my sister had a collection of mirrors in her black castle, Carver said. We halted once more. She admired herself day and night in those mirrors, gloating over her youth and beauty. There was one mirror.

35:23 The Urber, she called it. It was old even when we were young, very old Mirror. A window to the world. All could be seen, all could be told through its dark surface. Here possesses it. And heirloom of his household. Bring it to me. That is my price, the Urberis. And I'm yours to wield if you can find a way to free me.

35:41 A hateful smile. So we've read that quote, I think probably five times on this podcast at this point. So we've talked. About I need the Urburus, then Kira tells us. You know, you can have the Urburus if you can take it because it drives people insane. So Farrah says, great, pick something else because I can't afford to do that right now. And the bone Carver basically says, I don't want anything else.

36:04 I want my window to the world, give it to me. And then basically smells the fear on her and says, you're afraid to claim it. Why? And she says you're not. And he says, no, are you afraid of it? Too recent? There's kind of this like this game of taunting going on. But the bone Carver basically says, no, but like, that's my price and I'm sticking to it. And so Farrah basically goes and asks her bestie, the cereal, what to do, and the cereal calls it the Mirror of Beginnings and Endings.

36:31 Farad interestingly, describes the Cereburus as a gift. She says he wants a gift in exchange. The Herburus and the cereal. She says the cereal let out a sound that might have been a gasp, delight or horror. I did not know. Which is interesting, right? We're not clear whether the cereal was happy or horrified.

36:48 And just on that, the idea of the cereal letting out a gasp, like she was able to surprise a being that can see the future. Yeah, like, right. Like what is? This thing and the serial clearly recognizes it. Yeah. And the surreal says you were afraid to look, to see what what is within. And Pharaoh says, what? Drive me mad?

37:07 Break me. It was an effort not to flinch at that monstrous space, at the Milky eyes and lipless mouth all focused upon me. Only you can decide what breaks you, curse breaker. Only you. Not an answer. Not really. Certainly not enough to risk retrieving the mirror. So All in all, Pharaoh looks in the mirror, goes through quite a horrific ordeal when doing so, but she survives.

37:27 And then upon doing so, she can summon it wherever and whenever she wishes, including summoning it into the prison, which is kind of insane when you think about it, because the prison has all of these wards against winnowing into it within it, but she summons it directly into the Bone Carver cell.

37:45 But then the Bone Carver basically says, I don't need this mirror. Like I just needed you to basically look into this mirror and not be broken by it. That's it. And then he leaves. And then like he ultimately dies in this battle. So he really just looks at the mirrors like you pass the test and then goes and dies in the battle.

38:03 And that's really all. Like that's the narrative that we are presented with in terms of like why the Bone Carver needed Ferra to get the Uroboros, right? That is what we're given. We rarely stick to what we're given in this podcast. So like, I'm going to take, I'm going to take it in a potentially, potentially different direction. But I also acknowledge like that that could totally just be that could be it totally, yeah, totally, totally possible. But it it would be odd to me that he would call it a window to the world multiple times.

38:31 And then it just isn't. And he doesn't care about it and he doesn't want it. And he just says, like, OK, fair, looked into it and she overcame herself and then she was worthy. And then I fought for her and then that was it. Yeah. There's an interesting moment that we have talked about before on this podcast and I think we'll talk about it later in this episode as well, where the bone Carver says that a long ago Faye warrior would have been my salvation and that this Faye warriors blood runs through a human line.

38:58 Now we've also talked about in this podcast that Reese also says about Pharaoh, you are my salvation. I don't have a lot to go on here to be honest, but it makes me wonder whether this like this fae warrior who would have been the bone Carver salvation was an ancestor of Pharaoh somehow. And that somehow looking in this mirror was a way for the bone Carver to validate that Pharaoh was in fact a descendant and that the bone Carver like was fighting for the right person, the right side. Like the bone Carver will know exactly what this mirror does. It was his sister's like it was in his family for a long time. It's an heirloom of his family's like it's an heirloom of Kira's household, but it's also his.

39:42 Like it was pretty good. So maybe he knew some prophecies, some truth, something. He knows truths. He seems to know truths that would come true when fighting for her that we've yet to find out and seems OK with dying for her. If he doesn't know truths, He seems more comfortable with Farrah specifically like just Farrah, than anybody else in the. I totally think you're I, I, I think my idea is going to build on what you just said.

40:13 And I think it still works. So when Pharah goes to the Carver, initially he is like, I'm not doing it. I'm not fighting for you. I like it here. I'm not going to leave. I don't want to see my siblings. I don't want to go into the world. Right. And then then he finds out that Pharah is going to the Court of Nightmares that night, right?

40:30 And what he says is the passage for this is the Carver smiled. You will be bargaining with him. Him in this case is Kier. A glance at the tattoo on my right hand. I wonder what Kier's asking price will be. A low laugh. Interesting. Cassion said, let out a long-suffering side. Out with it. The bone Carver again fell silent, toying with the shards of the adder's bone in the dirt beside him, the eddies of the cauldron swirl an interest swirl in strange ways. He murmured more to himself than us, right? And the eddies of the cauldron are really about fate, right? That's, that's every reference we've gotten about the eddies of the Cauldron.

41:07 The other references we've gotten is like, well, Reese talking about mates is the most famous one, right? So what decides that? Who decides it restreaten the his lapels before plucking an invisible piece of lint from there Fate, the mother, the Collins, the cauldron, swirling eddies. And then the first reference we get to this is actually Alice talking to Farah in ACOTAR and she says go home I'll take you as far as the wall.

41:30 There's not to be done now. Tanlin will remain her slave forever and Prithian will stay under her rule. That's what fate dealt. That was what the eddies of the cauldron decided right? So I think it's really interesting that the Carver is invoking fate in the the idea of Pharaoh looking into that mirror.

41:47 So I totally think that works with your idea of this somehow being tied to that long ago forgotten Faye warrior whose bloodline only runs in humans now, right? Like, what was the Carver waiting for? Yeah, for that to be like, okay, she's going in the human city. I need her to get the Euro Burroughs, right.

42:04 It feels like we're only getting a piece of that story, and I don't know what the full story is right now. I also think it's interesting we talked about the Carver being like a being who can see the future. I think this shows that he can't see everything right, because he says, oh, the eddies of the cauldron swirl in strange ways that he didn't see this coming. He didn't anticipate for this.

42:25 Whether that's because we know that the surreal can't see beings who are not of this world, right? He like the surreal, can't see the fates of the beings that are not of this world. He couldn't see it. It couldn't see the bone Garver, right. So is it a similar thing with the Euro Burroughs where maybe the Euro Burroughs isn't of this world either?

42:41 I don't know what it would be, but is it something about the Euro Burroughs that would not let him see things tied to that for whatever reason? And then I think there's an interesting piece of this mirror that I don't think we've ever talked about because I've, I've read over it hundreds of times and not thought about it, but I caught it this time and I'm like, oh, this is really interesting.

42:58 We are told there is a point in time where Farah is looking at about the mirror. She's trying to research the mirror. And what we're told is this is Akwar 29. The mirror was notorious. Every known philosopher had ruminated on it. Some had dared face it and gone mad. Some had approached and run away in terror.

43:16 I could not find an account of anyone who had mastered it, face what lurked within and walked away with the mirror in their possession. Save for the Weaver in the wood, who certainly seemed insane enough, perhaps thanks to the mirror she'd so dearly love. So we know the Weaver has looked in it and walked away a bit. OK.

43:32 But Kier has to have looked at it too, right? Because it's in his possession. That's what we're told, the Weaver still alive. If Kier has it, someone in his line has to have looked at it at some point to have gotten it from her. Someone. Someone in his line, maybe not Kier himself, but we have all these like very. Doesn't that just mean that Shriega has to have been in his line?

43:56 No, I think it could means he could have taken it. Either one works. Either one works, right? It's it says it's in Kiir's possession now, though in my mind, that means that someone in his line has to have looked at it, right? So, like, there's something about Striga and there's something about Kiir's line that lets them look at this without going mad for whatever reason, is my thinking. Maybe I'm off here.

44:19 It could be off. Go ahead. I have more. I think there is also the implication that Streega has imbued some of her magic into the mirror as well. So the quote we get for that is perhaps whatever this is a continuation of before. It's so save for the Weaver in the wood, who certainly seemed insane enough, perhaps thanks to the mirror she'd so dearly loved the next paragraph, or perhaps what evil, whatever evil lurked in her land, had tainted the mirror to Some of the philosopher's had suggested as much so they hadn't known her name, only that a Dark Queen had once possessed it, cherished it, spied on the world with it, and used it to hunt down beautiful young maidens to keep her eternally young.

45:03 So we're not told who this Dark Queen is, but we can kind of assume that it's Shriega within our Acatar world. So like Farah says, perhaps whatever evil lurked in her had tainted the mirror right in her. Yeah, in her. Perhaps whatever evil had lurked in her had tainted the mirror. So like, has Striga imbued some of her power into this mirror?

45:23 Which would. And then it would make sense because we think Striga and Kira in the same family line, that Kira has something that would protect him from this madness if like Striga's magic is in it too. Yeah, or Shriga's power is like what causes the madness. And here just like has that because he's around.

45:39 So he's just like, OK. But now does Farrah have it too? Because Farrah is able to look into this mirror and not go mad when everyone else has, right? So like, is there something? I don't know what it would be. I don't know what it be, but is it is the bone carver's actual test here not Oh, I wanted you to look at it and like know yourself and not be afraid is his test. I wanted to see if you would be immune to this death God magic that my sister has infused the mirror with for whatever reason. I don't know to what I I don't know what that magic is, but like, is that what he's actually going for here with the Uroboros?

46:14 Is that why he's saying fate has dealt me an interesting can't hear because I'm not going to go fight just for anyone. I'm only going to go fight for this, this type of person, this type of mind with this type of magic. It would also just make sense if it were like for my blood. Yeah, my life. That would make sense.

46:29 Yeah. I don't know how that would work. I don't know how that would work. Well, I don't think it's that far fetched because if it's Kier, like Kier and Reese are related and Farah has a kernel of Reese's power, that's not that crazy. Well, that's what I think is happening here. I don't think it's a bloodline thing. I think it's a kernel of magic, probably from Reese, almost certainly, that protects her from whatever this madness is or whatever Striga's magic.

46:54 Is, yeah. And that works better than the one we go Faye warrior piece. I think that's separate. Yeah, I do think that's separate too. But I think it works with the second part that you were saying, which I can't remember now, but I think I think it's sort of. Validation that Phara was was descendant of somebody worth somebody that he knew worth fighting for. I think it is that it is.

47:16 It is specifically, does Farrah have that? Whatever that magic is, whatever that is that I'm looking for. Yeah. And I think what's really interesting is we get you get kind of two conflicting stories from the Carver on why he wanted Farrah to look into the Urbara. So the first one we get is I wanted to see if you were worth helping. The Carver went on.

47:37 It's a rare person to face who they truly are and not run from it, not be broken by it. That's what the Uroboro shows all who look into it, who they are, every despicable and unholy inch, blah, blah, blah. You read this. So that's about like knowing yourself, right? But he also wanted to know what she saw.

47:54 He's like really curious about what she saw. So the quote we get for that is. And for once, the Carver seemed to go very still and quiet. He whispered, you retrieved it. I looked toward a corner of his cell. The Uroboros appeared, snow and ice still crusting it fine to summon wherever and whenever I wished how words were still foreign, strange things. The body that I had returned to it was strange to my tongue was dry as paper.

48:18 As I said, I looked. What did you see? The Carver got to his feet. So he wants to know He wants to know what he's. She saw he doesn't he's not just interested in like oh, OK, she saw it. That's good enough. What he wants to know what she is, which I think is very interesting. He never finds out he she doesn't tell him right, But like it's not just a test. He's I think he's looking for information here. If you think back to the first reasons why we had Pharaoh going to the bone Carver, the inner circle basically specifically sends Pharaoh to him because she's something new, because they think he'll be interested in her, right. Like he says when he needs her.

48:55 It's been an age since something new has come into this world. We also know we have this quote. He won't talk to Reese Amron said to the others or to Azrael or to any of us. We've got nothing to to offer him but an immortal with a mortal soul. She stared at my chest of as she could see the heart pounding beneath, and I contemplated yet again what she ate. The Bone Carver might be willing indeed to talk to her. So I think there's some kind of machinations happening here, basically where it's like she is something new. I think she might be something that can resist whatever magic my sister has or I have, and I think that means I need to I need to fight with her.

49:32 I need to follow her. I don't know what that is, but I think that is another way of interpreting what this scene is. I will just say the only other I think we've even talked about this, we have a similar idea about looking upon something and seeing madness in this, in this world, in Prythian. And that is Amarantha's eyes, right?

49:51 So the quote for that is. But while her Ebony eyes shown, there was something that sucked at her beauty, some kind of permanence near to her features that made her allure seem contrived and cold to paint her, it would have driven me to madness. So I'm wondering again if we have a connection between Amarantha Striega's powers and the Aerobaros and how they kind of all fit together.

50:12 And now Pharah, I guess too. Why Pharah is able to be resistant to that kind of power. Yeah, yeah. Cool. OK. OK. All right, Abby, why is Pharah's bargain with the bone Carver marked with a tattoo of the phases of the moon? All right, this is a wacko doodle answer guys, and I'm going to put this in the could be something, could be nothing category.

50:32 I don't even know if you know where I'm going to go with this, Ron. And I have an answer, but I think is probably factual, but I I'm curious where you're going. OK interesting thing I noticed here both Rira both Rira both Farah and Reese end up with tattoos of the moon when they make Well tattoos of the moon are the result of bargains that both Farah and Reese Ren Reese make with deaf gods.

50:58 So when Farah makes a makes a bargain with the bone Carver, she gets a tattoo of the phases of the moon down her back. So the quote for that is. I smiled at him, bathing in that power and send an image into his mind of the colon of of my spine now inked from base to nape with the four phases of the moon and a small star in the middle of them.

51:21 We later and then she later says you retrieve the Erebaros. Reese whispered for standing before Highburn and the Bone Carver and the living where the in the living nest of shadows that was Briaxis, the former contained and freed and a fae body by myself last night, both bound to obey by the simple bargain. Now into my spine I did.

51:39 So technically this is for both Brie Axis and the Bone Carver. But when the Bone Carver dies, she says it feels like the tattoo on her back is gone. I don't think we ever get confirmation, but it seems to be kind of more closely tied to the Bone Carver. Yeah, you have your thinking face on. I am 99% sure I thought the same thing. Wait can you read that quote again? Because I thought the same thing but then I found a receipt and I should have fucking written it down. I found a receipt that the Brie axis tattoo was actually a second band.

52:05 It was just. She has two bargains. All right, so let's just say this is for the Bone Carver. OK, yeah, so the Brie axis tattoo was? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Plans to my arm as if he could see the new second band beside the first one. He lifted her joint hands and pressed a kiss to the back of my palm.

52:23 This was after she said the library is its home. It only wanted some Justin's made to it. So this is just for the bone Carver? Yeah, the Briaxis tattoo is separate. That's just for the Bone Carver's bargain. Well, it says both bound to obey by the simple bargain now inked it to my spine. So I think it's an oopsie.

52:38 I think it's an oopsie. I think it's really Sarah. It's OK. Come on, Sarah. No, we love you. It's OK. We get it. All right, so this is the bone Carver tattoo, which makes my theory much simpler. That's fine. When Striga and Reese make the same bargain, Striga ends up with a tattoo of the moon.

52:53 So the quote for that is Striga the Weaver had waited, hiding here until we arrived. She brushed a Snow White hand over the tattoo of a Crescent moon now on her forearm. Reese's bargain mark, a reminder and a warning to go, to hurry. So Farah ends up with phases of the moon. Striga ends up with a Crescent moon tattoo.

53:12 Reese ends up with a squiggly line. We don't know what that is. We don't know what the bone Carver ends up with as a result of these bargains. So hurling tattoo, I feel like a small curling tattoo. There'll be a Crescent moon as well. All right? That's like a spiral. We don't know what it is. We're not giving enough curl.

53:29 Yeah. OK. So we're going to focus on Pharaoh in this question in the bone car, because this is our bone car episode. But so we have the phases of the moon down her back. We have kind of two other places where we see the phases of the moon, and they're interesting places. So place #1 is Ianthi, our favorite high priestess, who we hate Ianthi. So the quote for that is beneath her pale blue Gray hood I anthe furrowed, furrowed her brow crinkling the tattoos of the various stages of a moon cycle stamped across it. So we have a priestess who is dedicated to the mother who has this phases of the moon tattoo.

54:05 We also have Favour's crown that she says calls to her. So this is an Akawa chapter 41. I'd let the crown call to me. I hadn't picked it for style or comfort, but for the draw. I fell to it as if it were that ring in the weaver's cottage. My crown was crafted of silver and diamond, all fashioned into swirls of stars and various phases of the moon.

54:27 It's arching apex held aloft a Crescent moon of silent of solid diamond flanked by two exploding stars. So we now have 3-3 pieces of imagery of the phases of the moon, one of which seems to be associated with the mother and two of which seem to be associated with Pharaoh. I'm saying the mother because I am the as a priestess.

54:44 This is where I'm kind of going off the walls here. I want to talk about Roman mythology. All right, so we have a Roman goddess, Diana. There are no gods and goddesses in this world. However, Diana seemingly has her fingerprints all over the story. So I kind of want to talk about her and all right, so I want to talk about Diana and the death gods and the origin of the name Diana. And this is all from Wikipedia.

55:07 So she is the goddess of the hunt, wild animals, fertility, and the moon, which is why I'm bringing her up here the the moon part from the death gods named Diana or sorry. The ancient Latin writers Vero and Cicero considered the etymology of Diana as ally to that of dyes and connected to the shine of the moon owning noting that one of her titles is Diana Lucifera, light bearer. So her name seems to literally come from the word dyes, unless I'm misunderstanding that which is possible. And these are these are death gods, right? And we have we have moons on both of them with their bargains, right?

55:44 More from Wikipedia People regard Diana as in the moon as one in the same. The moon Luna is so-called from the verb to shine. Diana also has the name Omnavaga, wandering everywhere, not because of her hunting, but because she is numbered as one of the seven planets. Her name Diana derives from the fact that she turns darkness into daylight in parentheses. Death.

56:06 So we again we have dying. These are death does. And we have shining favor glows right. We know that one of Favor's powers is that she glows. Another quote from Wikipedia. A theater in her sanctuary at Lake Nemi included a pit and tunnel that would have allowed actors to easily descend on one side of the stage and ascend on the other, indicating a connection between the phases of the moon and a descent by the moon goddess into the underworld. So we actually talked with Morgan a lot yesterday about how all of Prythian could technically be kind of like the underworld, right?

56:36 So here we have the phases of the moon representing A descent into the underworld. So this phases of the moon, is this really about Farrah and her journey to Prithean? And like, is that what this is about? Or is it more Farrah going to nightcore, Reese's, Hades, etcetera? I think either of those work, but I definitely think that that's part of this phases of the moon imagery. Yeah.

56:57 And then we have Diana was often considered an aspect of a triple goddess known as Diana triformis, Diana Luna and Hecate. According to historian CM Green, these were neither different goddesses nor an amalgamation of different goddesses. They were Diana, Diana as Huntress, Diana of the moon, Diana of the underworld.

57:14 We then later have depictions of these. Hold on as it as these are the three triple goddesses it represents. One of them with the bow of 1 extremity that is Artemis, Luna with flowers at the other and a central deity not immediately identifiable. All united by a horizontal bar. So obviously these are all mythologies and they're kind of mixing and they're kind of hard to keep track of. But basically we have 1 Diana in this triplicate goddess that is a moon goddess, which I think is very clearly Nesta coated. We have one that is a divine huntress that seems to be Farah coated.

57:49 And then we have one that is Luna. Celine is what they call her and she is associated with flowers. That's kind of more of the Persephone story I believe. But that is a lean coated, right? So like, we have Diana fingerprints all over this story. We have long forgotten gods in these worlds. Was Diana one of them or a version of Diana, one of the long forgotten gods in these worlds? Because this imagery is so associated with her and she is both associated.

58:17 She has ties to seemingly both the Archer ONS and the deaf gods here. So I don't think this is like a coincidence. It's loose. I know it's loose because there is no Diana in this world, but it just feels like her fingerprints are all are all over this. Yeah, we have a little more. Do you want to react to that or do you want me to say a little more? How?

58:36 How is this related to the bone? In that she's kind of the mother of the death gods. Like, like in that Diana could be the mother of the death. Diana is the mother of the death gods. I see. Yes. So so the Bone Carver's connection with Farah is Diana. Potentially, potentially. I don't know. Yeah, everything makes sense.

58:57 So this is this was the more I was going to get into. There are three, Sir. We know that there's a scene Mozart. We'll get into this in mass first, but just to talk about it in a guitar. But there is a scene where the bone Carver is talking to Farah and he is tracing 3 circles in the dirt, right?

59:15 Could be his siblings, could be the Archer on sisters. They also could it also be the three faces of Diana that we just talked about? We are also told that the mother in this story has three faces. Amarin mentions it offhand when Nesta. I'm like what the fuck is her name? When Nesta is crying she says 3 bones for the three faces of the mother right?

59:36 Could Diana potentially be the the mother of this world? If there is, if, if that is the case, because I Anthe has this tattoo as well, right? I Anthe has the phases of the moon tattoo. We have other quotes here. Hold on. Let me this is again for Wikipedia. Diana is heavily associated with childbirth, right? That's one of her things is fertility. So from Wikipedia, we said we have Diana was often considered to be a goddess associated with fertility and childbirth and the protection of women during labor. In her role as a protector of childbirth, Diana was called. Diana Lucina, Diana Lucifera, or even Juno Luchina because her domain overlap with that of the goddess Juno. The title of Juno may also have

1:00:17 an independent origin as it applied to Diana with the literal meaning of helper Diana as Juno Luchina would be the helper of childbirth. When Nesta saves Pharah during childbirth using the trove, we know that the mother was there, right? So the quote for that is Nesta's eyes blazed with silver fire behind the mask, and Cassie knew the being that looked out was neither Faye nor human, nor anything that walked the Lance of this world.

1:00:44 And then Cassian later says the mother, the only being who would see the sacrifice Nesta had made and give a little back. Perhaps it was she who had peered out through them through the mask. And that's in those are in Silver flames, chapter 76, chapter 78. And we obviously also get a lot of moonlight imagery with Nesta.

1:01:03 And we have speculated that she's a deaf God, right? Her power is death, right? So like is Diana? I, I don't know how this works. I don't really know how this works, but it seems like we're getting to a point where Diana could be the mother or a Diana figure in this world could be the mother and that Nesta has her power.

1:01:23 She's watching over her, and maybe she also gave birth to these deaf gods. We know they came from somewhere else. But I don't think the mother has to be only the mother for Prithean, right? I think the mother could be the mother for other things as well and the deaf gods could have come from her and gone somewhere else. So it's a very out there theory.

1:01:40 Very long would an answer for this question, but. What do you Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's that. I actually don't think it's that crazy, though. That's basically just saying, like Feyre and the bone curve were connected by the mother, and you're theorizing on who the mother is and that the mother is Diana.

1:01:54 I also don't think it's crazy to say that the mother is the mother of multiple worlds because the mother like, poured Prithian out of a cauldron. So like, what other worlds did she pour out of a cauldron? Totally. Merrill thinks there's 26. Absolutely. Yeah. So and again, we don't have a Diana in this world, but we have so many Diana coded things on this world like so many allusions to a Diana type figure. Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah.

1:02:21 I think it makes sense. And I think also like the the Archeron sisters, I mean, we've talked about how they're one letter off from the river of the Underworld. Like there's so much yeah mythology associated with them. Like Pharaoh's clearly the huntress, Nesta's clearly death and Elena's flowers. Yeah, I think it all fits.

1:02:39 I guess the question is always, it's the question is always like, is it fitting because the author is using mythology as inspiration or is it fitting with intent, you know? Certainly. Certainly. I don't know. I can't answer that. I can only tell you what my brain thinks. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:02:56 Could be something, could be nothing. Yeah. Cool. What did you have? I mean, I had the same connections, but I did not turn it into a theory about the mother. My my thought was similar. Right. So, like, why? So why, why is this bargain marked in this way? Same quotes, right? So yes, the bargain is 4 phases the moon with a star in the middle.

1:03:19 It looks exactly like both the Bone Carver's bargain tattoo and Shrieka's bargain tattoo together form Pharaoh's crown, right? Which to your point, is drawn to her. She is drawn to the crown exactly the way that she is drawn to the ring in the Weaver's cottage, which it's the same draw between the same people, right? So like Farah and the bone Carver and Farah and Shrieka are the three characters in play here. We'll call it Farah and Reese at this point have the same power, or at least like the same power.

1:03:52 So like it's Farah and Reese's power, really Reese's power calling to the power of the Bone Carver and Shrieka, who are twins and they're twins, which is interesting. I want to talk a little bit about the Bone Carver's history because I think the the interesting thing about this crown parallel is that this is the royal jewelry of the Night Court Fair's crown specifically, right?

1:04:14 So this is when Reese brings her into the royal jewelry room of the night Court. And it's like all of the historical like jewels of their court. And we don't really know how far back it dates, but Reese implies that it's a very long time. Like it is all of their family heirlooms. Basically. We know that Stryga's mirrors are heirlooms of Kier's household. Like what are Reese's heirlooms?

1:04:38 Who did Reese's heirlooms come from? Like who did they belong to? And why are Shriega's and the bone carvers tattoos mirroring night court jewelry? Right. Like who are Shriega and Bone Carver? Reese's said that the Daglin were the predecessors to the thing, right? And so who were Srika and the Bone Carver?

1:04:58 Are they ancestors? Are they ancestors to Reese and more? Let's talk about the Bone Carver's history a bit and how he came to enter that prison, and also how he talks about Farrah and Reese. So the Bone Carver lives all the way at the bottom of the prison. We'll talk about all of this more in Mass first, just as a disclaimer. But he says he effectively put himself there, right? So all before Prythean, this is the quote before the land was carved up and any high Lord was crowned, effectively says I took it upon myself to find my way here. So however long this prison has been around, the Bone Carver has been around for a very, very long time. Possibly one of the earliest prisoners, like we don't know when the prison was created, but

1:05:40 before the land was carved up and any high Lord was crowned, I took it upon myself to find my way here. That's a very says that, which is fucking crazy. Yeah, he's not a prisoner, guys. It's a. Crazy thing to say. So he lives all the way at the bottom of the prison. But I'm not willing to put my hand on my heart and say the Bone Carver is a prisoner.

1:06:00 Yeah, that's what I'm getting in here. He also says that he has carved the door of every prisoner in the prison, but he likes his the best, and Reese agrees with them. He's like, yeah, I totally agree. Why can he just open his door and walk around? Well, maybe Reese is like bringing the gates up, but yeah, I mean, yeah, they're bringing the doors, everybody. Else has a cell like Landis's cell is locked. Yeah.

1:06:23 Like the bone Carver is carved everybody else's door. So already I have questions, right, about like the Bone Carver's quote, imprisonment. Like he has he put himself there. He had good reasons for doing so. He says he's carved the doors of every prisoner in the prison. He doesn't even say other prisoners, every prisoner in the prison.

1:06:41 But he likes his the best. And Reese agrees. And he reveals that his sister Striga was once a queen, right? We've talked about this at length on this podcast about how Striga seems to be somehow and Reese and Moore is lineage. Definitely Moore is because the Erburus is Kyrus heirloom and Reese's mother's ring is left with Striga and passed down through the women and his family.

1:07:01 And so, so question, right, about like the bone Carver and Shrieka. But this is our episode about the bone Carver. Like who is the bone Carver to to Reese? Yeah, who is he to Reese? And finally, he refers to Reese and Farah, but particularly Farah as royalty of his own court. He calls Farah my new high lady, my new high lady, and he calls Reese and Farah majesties. So it's feeling, it's feeling like he is of the night court in some or of this court somehow.

1:07:31 A moment where they're talking about the book of breathing. So I'm sorry, I don't know if you're going to get here, but he says our half. What is Summer Court? What do you mean? What do you mean our half? Are you part of this? Are you in this like? Right, right. Yeah. So it breaks down a little bit because we know that he's not of this world, right? That's what that's what Serial said. I can't see him because he's not born of this this earth. His thread has not been woven in. We talked a couple episodes ago about how the prison was rumored, say rumored because it's really just Reese Reese spinning this rumor.

1:08:05 But Reese seems to know things to be maybe an 8th court before whatever it is today and that it falls under Reese's jurisdiction. The bone Carver, for whatever reason, seems to want to be there. He claims it's to hide from his siblings. What if he's just there? Like maybe he's a prisoner, but also what if he's not? Like what if he was a member of a royal family? Like a member of some sort of royal guard. And that's why their bargain is marked by the same symbols as the royal jewels.

1:08:35 As the royal jewels, yeah. That's my question. I love it and I'm not going to say anymore. I know this will be the last omission and it's coming up. I love it, I have nothing else to add. Yeah. So that's I didn't go to the mother, but my question is. I did. I did go down this exact same rabbit hole.

1:08:54 I'm like it. The language he's using makes it feel like he is Faye, like he is one of them, Like he is part of this. But we know he's not of this world. So, like, how does this work? How? How is this possible? Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, Anyways, all right, well on that note, we are about to start our math first section.

1:09:13 So if you have not read Crescent City and Throne of Glass, we are about to start talking about those. So if you haven't done that, then follow us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. We're on all of those as Dragons in the details pod. We've got a website, dragonsinthedetails.com. We've got a Discord server.

1:09:32 Enter at your own risk. Honestly, you guys have been popping off lately. Oh my God, you guys, what happened? Guys have been crazy, but that Discord server is Dragons in the details and the link is in all of our BIOS and the show notes and we're on Facebook. Yeah, we're on Facebook too. We're on Facebook and that's all we've got. We're about to start talking about Crescent City and Throne of Glass spoilers in addition to a guitar spoilers. So if you don't want to hear those, this is your cue. Love you.

1:09:58 Bye. Love you. Bye. All right, Mass verse spoilers. Let's go cosms for mass verse. Abby, do you have any to share with the class? Yeah, I have a huge one, and it's exactly what you were just talking about. All right, so the bone Carver can hear the rock. Who else do we know who can talk to the prison?

1:10:15 Bryce. Bryce can talk to the prison. OK, so the quote for that is, and this is an hofast. Chapter 22. She'd let them out if she restored the mountain to its former glory. And in that moment, the mountain, the island, spoke to her alone. It was so alone it had been waiting all this time, cold and adrift in this thrashing Gray sea. If she could reach out, if she could open her heart to it, it might sing again.

1:10:38 Awaken. There was a beating of vibrant heart locked away far beneath them. If she freed it, the land would rise from its slumber and such wonders whispering again from its earth. We have the bone Carver saying, should I tell you what the rock whispered to me? Right. So I think the bone Carver can hear the prison.

1:10:54 I think the bone Carver can talk to the prison the way that Bryce can. We don't know exactly why Bryce can talk to the prison, right? Because she's certainly Celine's descendant, but or well, she's certainly Faye's descendant. She's not Celine's descendant. But like Reese should be able to hear the prison too. I guess we don't know that Reese can't hear the prison, but she's she's we think, I don't know.

1:11:15 I don't know, but these two characters can do it. Yeah, I, I mean, we haven't had Reese's. We haven't been in Reese's POV for a prison visit. But like, Reese knows that the prison sentries are in the stone. Yeah. So Reese might be able to hear the prison. That's very possible. But yeah, like, I'm with you.

1:11:36 The bone Carver can hear the stone. The bone Carver wants to be there. The bone Carver. I just don't think as a prisoner. I mean, we'll get to that, but. Yeah. The omission for that question that I had was obviously, he says all before Prithium, before the land was carved up and any high Lord was crowned. dot dot dot took it upon myself to find my way here.

1:11:56 That means that the Carver has been in that strong hold before it was a prison. That doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't have been a prisoner in the palace, but like, because like there are prisoners in palaces. But that's I don't know. He knows what it is. He knows. What it is, Yeah, he knows what it is. He knows what it is and well, sorry I'm I'm conflating omissions.

1:12:19 No, I mean it was a big one. I had more about the herb Burrows, but I think we'll talk about in the street go. So I don't think we need to talk about it here. And then we have a question later about the prison, right? Why doesn't the book I want to leave the prison. Yeah, I just wanted to put a quick note out there about the ancient Fae warrior. And I know we've talked about on this podcast before, but maybe you've maybe this is your first episode because I see this everywhere.

1:12:42 And that is the ancient Fae warrior that tracked down Koche and Shriega and confine them to their prisons. Now, it's not Celine, it's not Celine, it's not Helena, it's not Thea, it's not any of them because only her line only exists in the humans now, right? And Reese is a descendant of Celine. So like, we don't know who this ancient Fae warrior is, but I see all these theories on Reddit because now I go on Reddit, which I shouldn't have done, but I see like all these theories that it's Celine, but I don't think it can be. I don't think it can be because Reese is clearly a descendant of Celine.

1:13:14 So that's what I'm going to say about that. Yeah. Cool. OK, I realized that wasn't really a cosm, but I didn't have anywhere to put it and I thought people might be like, why didn't you talk about the ancient Fe warrior? I think I do have something in one of our questions about the ancient fae warriors. Honestly, the only thing about it that doesn't fit is that Reese is a descendant.

1:13:31 So yeah, like we should acknowledge that. Yeah, but I think it's pretty, I mean, unless she's going to do some crazy retconning or we're wrong about absolutely everything that we've been led to this believe so far. Like I don't think it was Celine. Yeah, right. Yeah, Yeah, yes, couple, couple other omissions. Sorry.

1:13:49 Were you done? I'm done. OK. I have a couple other omissions. The other people in this universe who can appear to people as different things. So I will say that none of this is confirmed, but I feel like we have more beings in this universe that I strongly suspect could do this. I don't know about you. There are three.

1:14:09 It's not going to be shocking to anyone. One is ridgeless. I feel like could probably pull this off given the whole atis of it all which I still will never forgive Sarah James for like. You know how? Hard it is to research for this podcast when you have to look at whether you're in House of Sky and Breath, when ATIS is saying something, you're like, is this ATIS or is this ridgeless?

1:14:33 For our listeners, what we're referring to is when Ridgeless appears as Atis the cat. But it's actually Ridgeless and you can't fucking trust the thing he's saying. Yeah, it's very frustrating. So the reason you should the Internet. The reason I say that, I think it's possible that that might be possible for Ridgeles to do what the what the Bone Carter Carver is doing that is appearing to to two people as different things at the same time is because I think it's mind work not shifting.

1:15:01 I think what's happening there is mind work not physically shifting into something else. Yeah, I'd agree on that. Same deal for Princess of Hell, I think. I think it's mind work, not shifting potentially same for and I waffle on this a little bit until I found this quote. Val Kings from the quote, he could take any form, but he appeared to them now as a handsome man with gold eyes.

1:15:24 And I'm not sure on that one. Like maybe taking a form is just taking a form. Yeah, yeah. But I feel like all three of those are like question Marks and they don't exist in in Corinthian guys. So like, that's why we weren't talking. About them there. Yeah. Yeah, I do think it's a question mark.

1:15:39 I think you're right that it's Damati power. Which gets back to the idea of Reese being linked to the bone Carver, which seems I just had a crazy thought. I don't think it works. OK. Never mind that that Bone Carver is Celine's son, who's key, who's the palace was keyed to hit the prison, was key to his gates, and he's just been guarding the prison ever since.

1:16:00 And the reason that the serial can't see him is because he's so closely tied to Vesperus and therefore not of this world. But I don't think it works. I don't think it works. It's a loose. Theory that would be better than I was worried that I was worried that he was just Vesperus. I don't think he is Vesperus. I don't.

1:16:16 A projection of Vesperus. A projection of Vesperus because we don't really know the timeline like he was only there like until but he took a physical form so he. Took a physical form. Yeah. He was bound to a body. Yeah. Oh God. OK, I feel like. All right, anyways, we can't do this right now. It gets it gets back to the being of a link between the Bone Carver and Reese though. If it's a damn body, power Bone Carver because Reese can spin these illusions too.

1:16:41 Yeah, yeah, and and. And Maeve. And Maeve like the Maeve of it all the. Maeve of it all that's our T-shirt guys the Maeve of it all Speaking of sonoglass gods, I obviously have a huge mission, which is Deanna obviously does exist in this world. I haven't I haven't thought about it guys, our discord.

1:16:59 I do want to shout out our discord. They got into this and I didn't really read it. I kind of skimmed it so I and I didn't include it in the ACOTAR section because I don't actually know what what points they laid out in their argument. But I did see that there was chatter back and forth over whether Deanna could be the mother. I'm maybe I'm kind of starting to lean towards it. I'm kind of starting to wonder if Deanna could be the mother, which I think means that the throne of glass gods are not as Steri, but I'm not sure yet.

1:17:23 I'm not there yet. Deanna and Mala seem like kind of their own things up here, like moon and sun. I don't know how I feel about it yet. I think we'll talk about it more in our either Crescent City or third of class season. I don't know. But I'm telling you, and I guess you are our Discord listeners that I'm hearing you on the Deanna might be the mother thing. I'm starting to think that too.

1:17:44 And we'll get there when we get there, I guess. But obviously Deanna exists, right? Deanna exists. We don't know her story, but I could assume it's pretty similar to Diana's story from Roman mythology. So, yeah, yeah. I yeah, I'm definitely getting further from and, you know, I took, you know, I was unhappy with the throne of Glass.

1:18:04 Gods are Asteri, you were. Yes. Conclusion in general, but I think I'm getting further from it as well. But I also like we need to, we need to go through Throne of Glass. So maybe in 2027 we'll be more sure. 2027 to 2028, we'll have an answer for this on you guys. Depends on release schedules, depends how much if Sarah wants to write a Guitar 6 or not.

1:18:27 We'll see what happens. Guys, we're kidding, but we're we also might not be so. All right, Ronnie, what does the Bone Carver appear to Farah as? All right, so members of the discord probably saw that I had an erased pre arc theory on this that I erased for a reason. So I'll talk about what I think and what I think is happening here.

1:18:47 So and we talked about this a little bit in Part 1. So what what does the bone Carver appear to fair as in Akamai chapter 18, the bone Carver appears to favorite as a young, a young boy. That's what she recognizes him as a dark haired boy sitting against the far wall. Eyes of crushing blue looked no more than 8.

1:19:06 No innocence, no kindness in that child's voice. These are snippets of his description, right? So Violet eyes seem to glow, eyes guttered with cobalt fire. So again these are flames in the bone carvers eyes. So that young boy, no more than 8 blue eyes, dark hair in Aqua war chapter 20 twos A whole book later, but not really that much time later, we see that same boy are cared with eyes of crushing blue. But Farrah realizes or you know, think she realizes, I think she realizes that it's hers and Reese's son. So she says it was Reese's face, the coloring, the eyes. It was my mate's face.

1:19:43 But the carver's full wide mouth curled into that hideous smile that was my mouth, my father's mouth. And then she says the high Lord son, my son, our son, should we survive long enough to bear him. So you brought up the point in the first half of this episode that the bone Carver may see the future. He may also deduce, right?

1:20:04 And so he's seen like he's seen Reese and he's seen Farrah and he can talk to the land. So maybe he maybe he should know about Reese's wings, but maybe he's also only seen Reese under the prison, right? Maybe he's putting them together into like an image of their child but does not know. That their child, what their child is actually going to look like. So the what I'm getting at guys is the omission of Nix's wings might not be intentional.

1:20:30 Also remember that Nix's wings might not always stick right like Reese's. Reese is able to summon and get rid of his wings. Nix is likely going to inherit his mother's shifting powers. This could very well still be Nix. And the reason that I think it's probably intended to be Nix is an Aqua War.

1:20:48 Chapter 40. The Bone Carver alludes to it being recent favours. First born. What about your first born? A secret smile as he gestured with that small boy's hand to himself. So I'm kind of debunking my own potential fun theories that I'm about to present. I think the most likely answer here is that it is Nick's and the bone Carver just either accidentally left out the wings or accurately left out the wings and knows that Nick's is going to be a shifter or can summon it on summon the wings as as he would like.

1:21:21 I'll pause there because I've got the other options. Any reactions to that? Yeah, something you said totally triggered, triggered my brain and I don't have this quote. Yeah, I don't have this quote, but you said that the the bone Carver appears to Farrah as a child with eyes that glow, right? Glowing blue eyes.

1:21:41 That's first. Eyes are crushing blue and glow. I'll get there. OK, because Nix's eyes specifically are called out to glow with the Starlight of both his father and his mother. So that's. Yeah. So. So there's three options I think that could be like just a dish like either off kilter non nex options or additional options that are not just like hey it's their first born.

1:22:07 The first option is what I think is is really the only realistic option, which is this is still their offspring. But it is meant to undeniably link Reese to Vesperus, who is the only other character who also has eyes of crushing blue and eyes that glowed just like the bone carvers glow with flame multiple times, but also Nyx's in real life glow with Starlight. So I think this is I think, I think this is still Nyx. I think it's just meant to link Nyx to Vesperus and link Reese to Vesperus and say, hey, if you didn't already think that Reese and Thea's line is descended from Vesperus. Hello.

1:22:48 This is this is a very obvious genetic link. Yeah. Eyes of crushing blue. And and it means, too, that the bone Carver knows exactly what Reese is, right? If we're right, yes. Right. Because he could talk to the eyelid. OK. And. The Bone Carver related to Best Friends. I don't know. I don't know anyone. Yeah, well, the bone, this is also not the bone Carver's true form.

1:23:11 So does the bone Carver have a true form? I don't know. So then there there's a couple other options that I've seen people talking about, right. And 1 was also one that I wanted to talk about at one point. But like the guys, I think there's too much that's just like, it's Nick's, right? Yeah. The most fun alternative option that again, I don't think is true, but I think it's fun is Rune.

1:23:32 It would not be the first time that somebody literally mistook Reese for Rune. Rune's own sister looked at Reese and said, are you Rune? Which is telling considering it's a literal blood relative. So if the Bone Carver were showing Pharaoh Rune as a child instead of Nicks, that would be pretty fun one. It could be an interesting play on time. Rune's quite a bit younger, so we don't really know when this whole thing was taken place, but it could be interesting if it were actually what room looked like at that given time. I think we've also gotten several hints at Farrah being a potential world Walker, right?

1:24:10 Like leaving this world together it it would be a pretty fun hint that Pharaoh might end up world walking to Midgard, which I would love. Reason being that we've not met Rune, right? Rune has not come to Prithean. So would Pharaoh end up world walking to Midgard and meeting room? That would be great.

1:24:30 That would especially be great because then Reese would have to go with her and then maybe Reese and Lauren could have a run in and then we would get a lot of confirmation or denial. Had a lot of different things. Yeah. The reason I think that's debunked is 1 the bone proper literally points to himself and says first born and then 2.

1:24:47 Iris says. My mouth it's yeah, yeah, yeah, her. Father's mouth, yeah. Her father's mouth. So unless there is some absolute twist of the universe and Rune is somehow Nick's, which I don't personally believe, then I don't think that this. Fits. I don't think it fits, but I do think there's an interesting. I now think it's what you said I the Vespers thing didn't even occur to me.

1:25:08 Which is fucking hilarious because I'm always thinking about Vespers in one way or another. Yeah, you are. But when we first meet Rune, You brought this up before when we first meet Rune. And literally Crescent City one, I think. I think I might have. I don't know where I got this quote from, but Danon's blue eyes simmered like the heart of a flame. The Rune himself bore no such magic, right? And we have the Bone Carver's eyes. Carver's eyes burned like the hottest flame. Cobalt flame?

1:25:36 Yeah, he's got Flame. So I but I don't think it's that he looks like Rune. I think this is, again, pointing to their shared ancestry of Vesperus potentially. Yeah. And I mean, the other thing too is the Carver is literally in a thin place with Midgard. And Maeve says that she can open basically windows to other worlds to look at them. We don't know if the Bone Carver can do that too. But like, even if this is next, and I do think it's next, I think you're right, But like, it is still possible that the Bone Carver has seen Rune and knows about Rune if he can open those windows the way that Maeve can.

1:26:11 We don't know. We don't know. But yeah, are you thinking? I'm just thinking, and then the other option is just the other Reese look alike, which is Dorian. I think it's equally unlikely, honestly, but also points to shared lineage because it would also just hint that we're world walking derelict or two.

1:26:34 You got me missed by I'm sorry, Irelia, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry, Irelia. But yeah, I think it's all just pointing back to, hey, crushing blue glowing eyes. We are all related to Vespers, but especially I think so if you ever I think so. I think that's what it is too. Yeah. I don't have anything else to add on this one. Cool.

1:26:53 All right, Abby, what does the bone Carver trace in dirt while telling Feyra about the ancient Fae warrior and why? OK so to set the scene, this is Aqua chapter 23. The quote is the Carver Trace 3 overlapping interlock circles in the dirt. You have met my sister, my twin, the Weaver as you now call her. I knew her as Strega, she and our older brother Coach, how they delighted in this world when we fell into it. She could not kill them in the end. They were too strong.

1:27:21 They could only be contained. The Carver wiped a hand through the circles he'd drawn, erasing them wholly. I knew that long before she ever trapped them. I took it upon myself to find my way here. I don't know how that line didn't fucking register with me. Yes. All right, so let's act our chapter 23, I wrote in my notes. So, I mean, this could just be possibly to represent his siblings.

1:27:44 That seems to be what that it's meant to represent that the three siblings, the three circles represent the three death God siblings. I said that's possible. You guys are crazy. Not everything is a conspiracy. Then I wrote now just joking, let's talk about the possibilities. So first we have we have a couple overlapping, 3 overlapping circle images in this universe, right? So the first one is the Artesian Arkeesian. I'm going to say it both ways so you guys can let me know which one's right with.

1:28:10 Artesian. Markeesian Amulet So in House of Flame and Shadow chapter 99, So basically Bryce is given the Arkeesian amulet by Jessica. We know that it tends to protect her against things. I believe sometimes it heats up is kind of throughout the series meant to be an amulet of protection. However, when we in House of Language out of chapter 29, we find out the kind of true nature of these Arkeesian amulets. So Jessica tells us that the Arkeesian amulet isn't merely for protection against my books or against demons. It's a link to Midgard itself.

1:28:44 The amulets first belonged to the librarian priestess of Parthos. Each was imbued with Midgard's innate magic, the very oldest, the sort every world has for those who know where to look. So to things here, right? We've got 3 Archeron sisters who we know have a connection to the Cauldron. We know that Cauldron is like innately connected to that world.

1:29:05 It's the kill switch for that world. Is this meant to represent that those 3 Archeron sisters are now intrinsically linked to Krythian? That's option one. That's kind of the first thought I had, the second thought I had, which I kind of started doing. But I think we're going to answer this question at a later point in time. Is, is this a link between the death gods and Parthos? Because, and we'll get into this in our, I think our coach episode, The description that the bone Carver gives for where they came from, which is dust drifting across the plane, is very similar to the description of Parthos. We're not going to get into this episode, but but we know these Arkeesian amulets are from

1:29:43 Parthos. We know that the bone Carver is drawing them in the dirt. Does this somehow imply that the death God siblings came from Midgard, came from Parthos? We're not going to get into it this episode. We will get into it at 1 episode. Just an idea I'm throwing out there right now for a later date. We also have the eye of Elena in Throne of Glass, right? So the quotes we have for that is in I believe this isn't Throne of Glass.

1:30:06 When Elena Oh sorry when Selena slash Alan first gets the amulet she says in her hand lay a coin size gold amulet on a delicate chain. She fought against the urge to scream. Made of intricate bands of metal. Within the round border of the amulet lay 2 overlapping circles, one on top of an of the other. In the space they shared was a small blue gem that gave the center of the amulet the appearance of an eye. A line range straight through the entire entire thing. So if you include the outer circle, then the eye of Elena is 3 overlapping circles.

1:30:38 I mean that's literally all we're given. We do not know the shape of this thing. 3 overlapping circles could mean many, many things. One of the places that we find the Eye of Elena is in the God of Truths. Temple and Rift hold and we're going to get into the God of Truth later as well. But this is in Queen of Shadows and what I think is really interesting is that when the eye of Elena is present, what we learn is that the history that we have been told by Elena is not true, right?

1:31:05 So the quote, what we've been told by Elena is that her and Gavin basically slew Erawan and banished him from this world and then when we're in the Temple of Rift hold, we get the truth of that basically, right. So the quote for that is they did not slay him not by sword or fire or water or might Erawan could not be slain or his body be destroyed.

1:31:23 The eye alien touched her hand to the necklace. The metal was warm. The eye contained him only for a short time. No, not contained, but put him to sleep. I have a very, very bad feeling about this, Adian said. So they put him in a sarcophagus of iron and some sort of indestructible stone and they put it in a sealed tomb beneath a mountain.

1:31:42 A so dark, so dark there was no air, no light upon the labyrinth of doors, she read. They put symbols unbreakable by any thief or key or force. This conversation is taking place in the prison, where there is an Esteri buried under their feet in a sarcophagus lined with lead. Right. So we have two places where this Eye of Elena kind of appears. And there's, hey, by the way, there's a creature of unimaginable power buried somewhere. In this case, it's beneath our feet in wrist hold. It's under, well, it's under the palace. Yeah.

1:32:18 So is this kind of a but like, hey, heads up by the way, there's something here you need to know, but I can't tell you what that is. So the next thing I have for this one, and I should say I don't have a concrete answer for this. I just have like a couple different possibilities. We are also told that the eye of Elena is actually the eye of the goddess and actually an iron teeth symbol. So the quote for that is from Manon in Empire storms, a large circle and two overlapping circles, one atop the other within its circumference.

1:32:44 That is the three faced goddess. Manon said, her voice low. We call this she drew rough line in the center most circle in the eye shaped space where they overlapped the eye of the goddess, not Elena. She circled the exterior again Crone she said of the outermost circumference. She circled the interior top circle mother.

1:33:01 She circled the bottom maiden. She stabbed the eye inside and the heart of darkness within her. That is an iron teeth symbol. So is this meant to tie Pharaoh to the iron teeth which is we've talked at length about Mama Archeron's iron teeth which imagery and how we kind of think they might be descended from the iron teeth.

1:33:18 Is this meant for the bone Carver to say, hey, you are an eye or teeth, which I know that's what you are and I'm telling you that right now. Yeah. And just the idea, I didn't really have nose for this, but the heart of darkness within her seems so similar to what Pharisees in the uro Burrows. Like the idea of the uro Burrows, right? Like people are usually scared when they see what's inside them, but like she didn't run away. Like that just feels so intrinsically tied to me. But I don't have a like concrete theory about it. Yeah.

1:33:47 So we have an iron tea symbol and then once again we have a connection to the mother. So we are given the idea of the mother having three faces in Prithean. We talked about this quote, but when Amarin is teaching us to describe, she says 3 stones for the faces of the mother, 4 bones. For whatever reason the charlatans came up with that I can't be bothered to remember.

1:34:03 In classic Amarin fashion, the witches in Throne of Blasts called the Goddess, the three faced mother, right? So the eye of the Goddess could actually be the eye of the three faced mother, which could be the mother in Prithean. Like we don't know. We're once again kind of getting this idea of a connection between the Archerons and the Mother and Prythian. Yeah.

1:34:21 Deanna, Diana, 3 faced goddess. Lots of three faced imagery there. So I think there's a lot of things that this could be. There's a lot of possibilities here. All of them are interesting. I hope it is not just oh these are me and my siblings but I don't know. What do you have? Yeah, I didn't think about the teeth.

1:34:39 One that would certainly make the most sense given who's tracing it and like a Strega. I mean I guess 1 omission we didn't talk about is the whole Herber as being probably a witch mirror thing like we're. Going to talk about that next episode, I think, yeah. Yeah, because like they were looking into it and proving some lineage that would work very nicely with what we think is probably a diluted which line.

1:35:02 But where I went was definitely more the Arkeesian amulet route. So like the three, I know you said it could be any, any shape of overlapping circles. I generally agree with that. But like if you type into Google 3 overlapping interlock circles, you will get the Arkeesian amulet. Yeah, shape. I agree.

1:35:21 I agree. Less of the just like and centric style of the. But this is also, well, pretend I have it on the bottom too. This is also three overlapping interlock circles, right? So it's like, yeah, right. Yeah, I did go down the Arkeesian amulet path more than the Eye of Elena path. But I think the Eye of Elena path still works. We just like have less to chase in my opinion there. Like that's more just like a, it could be the Eye of Elena. Like we don't know much about the descendant strings there, but you mentioned the Ercusian amulet link to Parthos. There's a couple other I think, interesting things about that particular set of amulets.

1:36:03 Right? So we know that it's 15,000 years old. Those amulets are 15,000 years old. They were of course, the amulets of the priestesses who once served and guarded Parthos. We know that they protect from magic, but not Starborn magic will not Damati magic and not Reese's magic either. So Rune and Reese both can get through.

1:36:23 And I say Starborn magic because it's not just mind speaking, right? It doesn't protect from his starborn connection, right? And we we hear this one betting Hunt says your Starborn connection to her and the horn must have overcome even the masking power of the Arkeesian amulet Hunt answer. That's quite a bond Prince.

1:36:39 So when Rune was trying to like find the horn, he was still drawn to Bryce to Bryce, even though she was wearing the amulet. So there's this starborn magic that can get through the Arkeesian amulet amulet and Rune can speak into her mind and rescan. And we get this specifically, like she calls it out like Sarah Jamas, just like tosses in her face when Bryce thinks she thinks. Would the Arkeesian amulet provide any protection? It hadn't prevented Rune's mind speaking. But and then we hear Reese speak into her mind. I do not pry where I am not willingly invited. So Jezebarrogo, we know brought them from Parthos, but we don't really have a reason to believe that she made them necessarily. She was just a priestess there

1:37:19 who is still alive because, well, not still alive, but was alive because of Apollyon. But we learn right that the Arcusian amulet is a is a link to Midgard is imbued with mid guards innate magic. So if the bone Carver is tracing the Arcusian amulet and he's talking about the long ago Faye warrior is the long ago Faye warrior links to Midgard like you brought this up right. But also if it's if it's somehow has a pass on Starborn power or if it, like if it's imbued with Midgard magic, that is Starborn because it's in that same paragraph, I believe we talk about Evolen.

1:37:54 Yeah, we talk about Evolen and Evolen's magic. Like I know you talked about how Celine can't be the Faye warrior, but is the Faye warrior somehow from Midgard? Is it somehow Helena? Think so though, because rune I mean. Bryce, I understand, I understand. Hear me out. I know that this might not work, but it's like so if he's again, if he's tracing the aircusing amulet, if he's not, none of this matters. But what if Bryce is the human line that Helena runs in? Like meaning So we know that the the Wongo Faye Warrior is bloodline only runs in a human line. Maybe it's Pharaoh's, maybe we're just talking about Pharaoh's.

1:38:30 But if it's Bryce, then we've hypothesized that Rune is star born because of Warren. What if Bryce is only *1 because of Ember? What if the Bone Carver is not from Prithean because the Bone Carver came from Midgard? One of Ember's you're saying one of Walk me through it. I'm getting. So I guess what I'm saying is, we know that the Bone Carver is not of Prythian, right?

1:38:53 Because the cereal says he's not born of this world. If the Bone Carver is tracing the Arkeesian Amulet and talking about a long ago Fey warrior that trapped people on Prythian, but the Arkeesian Amulet amulet is linked to Midgard and was worn by priestesses on Midgard in purpose, yeah, then he's thinking about somebody. We can assume he's thinking about somebody related to Midgard.

1:39:17 If he was thinking about Helena, which I don't know that he is right, then Helena could have her line only running through humans. If you basically throw out the possibility that Einer has any of Helena's line and then Rune is only star born through Lauren and Bryce is only star born through Ember. And the key is being star born through Lauren would mean technically maybe Celine, not Helena. OK.

1:39:44 Maybe. I mean, maybe. When you explain it out that way, yeah, it could work. Yeah. And that basically would be that would be like crazy theory that that someone got Lauren over there from the theory that someone got Lauren over there and that of Faye from Midgard came over trapped coche and Shriega, which is not that crazy.

1:40:05 It's not that crazy. Like we had Faye coming back from Midgard. If heiress and Princess of Hell are strolling around between worlds, Yeah, used to say. And then her only remaining descendant is Amber, and then Bryce. Yeah. Yeah, and like Amber has like, priestesses protecting her womb, like. Yeah, she does something.

1:40:25 Not her Christmas city season, but like something's going on with Amber. Something's up with Amber. Yeah, agreed. Cool. OK, Yeah. Am I hunting for ways that the Autumn King would not be starborn? I mean, he's not, like, canonically he's not starborn, but like, you know what I mean? Not. Yeah. Descended from.

1:40:45 Yeah. Descended from. I agree. Yeah. Cool. OK. Next question. Good. Yeah. Good. All right, Arnie, why doesn't the bone car want to leave the prison? I feel like this could be a short answer now, but yeah, I feel like we have already covered this, but I'll just quickly, quickly cap off here. So the bone Carver says I'll just, I don't think we really read the quotes, so we'll cover, cover the context.

1:41:08 Bone Carver says he doesn't have a home to go to and that he's exactly where he wants to be, citing that he's hiding from his siblings. Right. So the Carver says, you think that I wish to go back? Ferris says. Don't you? The Carver folded his legs beneath his small frame. Where we came from, I do not believe it is now anything more than dust drifting across a plane.

1:41:27 There is no home to return to, not one that I desire. He eventually says, do you think I let them trap me without good reason? So we talked about this in the first bit of this episode. I'm not sure he's really a prisoner, Right. So the bone carver's door is made of bone, just like the gates to the prison.

1:41:43 And in the service of the door are flora, fauna, seas and clouds, stars and moons. Carves. He carves bones. It's this thing we haven't really talked about that much in this episode, but that is his thing. He carves deaths into bones, seems to carve other things into bones too. And he says he carved the doors for every prisoner in this place. But my own remains my favorite.

1:42:02 So he can go to other doors in the prison. He can just just walk around. He went into the prison before there were courts, which we know from Celine's story means that the prison was not yet a prison. It was still a palace. That doesn't necessarily mean that he couldn't have been a prisoner, right? But it opens up a lot of possibilities and means that he was probably in there before all of these wards existed, before Celine filled the place with prisoners, certainly before Vesperus was sealed and decaying downstairs. And he lives all the way at the bottom of the prison and says he effectively put himself there.

1:42:38 We read this already, so I don't need to rehash this. He is also a former royal. He says his sister was a queen and he still acts like a member of the court and he talks about Reese and Farrah as if he is calls the Majesty's calls Farrah mighty high lady. We've talked about all of this. He's not born of this world, but I think he's very much choosing to be there. And the other kind of like crazy theory that I have about this, this is off the walls.

1:43:06 This is not, I'm not saying that I necessarily I totally think this is true, but Farrah frees him off page, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't know that Farrah freed him. Like I wonder whether he was kind of allowing Farrah to believe that she was freeing him. And I also wonder whether that's like possible for for Amron as well, given how little evidence that we have that she was actually in the prison.

1:43:32 I can't really figure out how Farrah would have. Done would have freed him. Yeah, yeah. Like, how is Vera binding him into a mortal body? How did Amron do it by herself the first time? Yeah, so. So I don't think he's a prisoner. I think he's choosing to be there. I mean, I think he's just like, there's a lot of things in the prison, right?

1:43:50 There's a necessary, there's a first light core. It's a thin place. The harp is there, right? He could have brought it upon himself to be guarding any of these things. And then when Pharaoh shows up, he's like, no, I can't leave. I can't leave. Like, I have a job here. There's so much to guard here.

1:44:08 And then because of whatever Pharaoh sees in the borough, he's like, OK, maybe I'm OK, maybe I'm not needed here anymore. It's kind of my thinking. Yeah, that's an optimistic way of looking at it. I mean, he seems very like very dejected. He's like I'm forgotten. Yeah, yeah. He seems pretty. He seems pretty downtrodden.

1:44:27 Yeah, well, but he says that's how I want to be. That's. How I want to be? Yeah, I want to be forgotten. Which Celine wants the Osteria to be forgotten, right. So, like, is that actually a good thing? Like he's like, I'm forgotten. The Osteria are forgotten. This is. Good. Yeah. He almost, it's like he's embodying, almost like the spirit of of Celine in a way. He's like, I will sit here and guard these secrets and make sure that you know this place remains the barren, sad place that it is.

1:44:56 For island that it is. Oh my God, do you think he is Celine? Seems like the spirit of Celine. Like we we didn't see Celine die. He can talk to the island. Like, I don't know, it doesn't really work, but it does seem like he's linked to Celine somehow. Yeah. Maybe, yeah. Yeah, tell me your crazy theory.

1:45:13 Unless you don't want. To I mean, that's it is crazy like, and I don't really think that is true, but I the parallel that I was thinking, there is another character in this universe who just wants to like go away and hide from their siblings and like live a life of and is incredibly powerful and doesn't really want to be viewed that way.

1:45:32 Yeah. And lives a far more grand life in the other place that we see them in, but has similar parallels. Can appear as basically anyone or anything. And that is that is Maeve. So is the bone Carver Maeve. Probably not the concept of wanting to just escape using and wielding their power. Like we are given 2 scenes in Morath where you almost feel bad for Maeve, like you almost want to empathize with her.

1:46:03 It makes me wonder whether we're not going to be presented with her in some other form in some other world given we know it's at least possible with these ultra powerful beings. That coupled with the fact the theory, the circulating the Internet right now, which is like the world didn't slow down when Maeve died, so is she really dead?

1:46:22 And could this have followed Maeve being defeated in Irelia And her just saying like look, I'm good. She looks exactly like Vesperith. She looks exactly like Vesperith. But I don't really. Think that one thing we did not talk about, and I think we didn't talk about it because I think we're going to talk about it in Koche, or at least I think I'm going to talk about in Koche, is the bone Carver's like fascination with death and Farrah's death and Farrah implying that he has come from a death realm, which again, I think we'll talk about in Koche. But what's interesting is that time doesn't slow down when the Bone Carver or Striga die either, right? There's no mention of time slowing down. So like, did they actually die?

1:47:02 I don't know. Or were they just know? Nowhere near as powerful as me for the stereo as possible, but it doesn't seem like it based on everything we know about them. Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting. I don't really have any more on that one. I just think I think he's guarding all of it. I think he's guarding all the things in the in the person. I think that's what he's doing either with Celine's knowledge. Yeah, maybe he's the prison guard. Yeah, I don't know.

1:47:29 But I certainly think he knows about Vesperus, right? And I think he's Bryce doesn't show up until after he's gone, so. If the rock is whispering to him, there's no way that he doesn't know about Vesperus. Yeah, that's what I think. That is what I think. It could also be more nefarious than that.

1:47:45 Like he's over first, like Core. He could be siphoning off power from the first, like Core. You know, I don't know. Yeah. All right. OK Abby, what is the bone carvers connection to the God of Truth and Throne of Glass? All right. So we talked about this a little bit and I think we've talked about it throughout this season. And you just mentioned that he Arf's bones, right there is a how do I want to say this?

1:48:08 All right, so there is a God of truth in throne of Class, right? And the quote, the kind of quotes we have for this are there is a rumor that the shadow market and rift hold is built on quote the bones of the God of truth, which is in Queen of Shadows Chapter 11. This God is not like the other gods that are worshipped in Aralia.

1:48:28 Sorry, really K all says that there is basically K all says there is no God of truth. This is a forgotten God, right That like that's what this is. We just talked about the bone Carver says I am forgotten. That's what I am right. So the quotes for these are the Shadow Market had operated along the banks of the Avery for as long as Rift Hold had existed, maybe longer. Legend claimed it had built been built on the bones of a God of truth so that it would keep the vendors and would be thieves. Honest Kale supposed it was ironic considering there was no God of truth as far as he knows right? So as far as he knows.

1:49:01 So we have a God that people have forgotten exists. In chapter 50, we have Kale, Allen, and Adian finding the temple under the market, and there are bones everywhere, so the quote for that is in every wall. Gulls and bones were artfully arranged, and every wall, even the ceiling, had been formed from them.

1:49:20 Even the floor at the foot of the stairs was laid with bones of varying shapes and sizes. These aren't ordinary catacombs. Rowan said, setting down his torch. This was a temple. And then we have the carving aspect of it. Right, so there's writing on the bones. Adian said, striding down the steps onto the bone floor. Alien grimaced.

1:49:38 Listen to this one here. I am a liar. I am a thief. I took my sister's husband and laugh while I did it. A pause. He silently read another. None of this writing. I don't think that these were good people. Seems like this God of truth Adian called from this wall was more of a sin eater than anything.

1:49:53 You should read some of the things people wrote, the horrible things they did. I think this was a place for them to be buried and to confess on the bones of other sinners. So we have we talked about in backdoor section this idea that Feyra is not allowed to lie to the Bone Carver, right? So the quote for that is Hello. I breathe.

1:50:12 The boy's smile was a mockery of innocence. Are you frightened? Yes. I said never lie. That had been Reese's first command when Feyra and Reese first meet the Bone Carver. Also he wants them to answer questions basically right? To tell him their secrets. So the quotes for that is where did you go when you die? I heard the crack, I said, said.

1:50:32 Reese's head whipped toward me. I heard the crack when she broke my neck. It was in my ears, but also inside my skull. I was gone before I felt anything more than the first lash of pain. The Bone Carver's Violet eyes seem to glow brighter. And then it was dark, a different sort of dark than this place, but there was a thread, I said, a tether, and I yanked on it, and suddenly I could see, not through my eyes, but but his. But was anyone there?

1:50:55 Were you seeing anything beyond? There was only that bond in the darkness. There was no other world. The Bone Carver push. If there was or is, I did not see it. No light, no portal. Where where is it that you want to go? The question almost leafed off my tongue. It was only peace and darkness. Did you have a body?

1:51:11 No. So he's basically asking Farah like all these questions about death. And then he says, I'm going to carve your death into these bones, right. So we have the at the idea of being close to death. We have the idea of bone carving. But then what he asked Reese is tell me a secret, right? He says, tell me a secret, which to me sounds like, give me a confession.

1:51:32 Tell me your sins, right, Like, I want to know what you did. And that's when Reese tells him his knee hurts, hurts when it rains. So Reese and the Carver then start to like kind of bargain over information, right, Because what Farah has said so far has really only been about death, nothing personal. And then when Farah opens up, like offers up something personal, right, kind of like a sin, that's when the Carver starts telling them what they want to know. So the quote for that is when Amarantha made me kill those two fairies.

1:51:59 If the third hadn't been Tamlin, I would have put the dag in my own heart at the end. Reese went still, I knew there was no coming back from what I'd done. I said Sorry. Reese went still, I knew there was no coming back from what I'd done. I said, wondering if the blue flame in the carver's eyes might burn my ruin soul to ash. And once I broke those cart, their curse, once I knew I'd save them, I just wanted enough time to turn that dagger on myself.

1:52:22 I only decided I wanted wanted to live when she killed me. And I knew that I'd not finished whatever, whatever it was I'd been born to do. So this to me is like a deathbed confession, right? First death. This is her confession that like she wanted to die. She felt so much guilt over what she did under the mountain.

1:52:39 And the bone Carver is basically like, OK, now I'll tell you what you want to know. Now that I know your sins. Now that I know your deathbed sins basically, right? I'll tell you what I need to know. Obviously very similar to being a sin eater being what we think the God of truth is. We talked about the giant rendering of the eye of Elena on this on this temple.

1:52:57 And we know that the the death gods are from somewhere else and they're called gods and this is the God of truth. So like, is there enough to go off of and say this is definitively yes, he's the bone Carver. He is the God of truth. I don't know, I'm not sure I'm like 100% sold on this. There's obviously like a lot of similarities, but it's not like this is a temple built from like beautifully carved bones with like intricate like designs.

1:53:20 Like what the bone Carver carves is like plants and fairies and stars. And we get a whole list of the things that he carves. It's not people since you know, like it's it's might be depictions of people's deaths, but it's not like deathbed confessions like this necessarily. But then we have him being very interested in truth and being very interested in sins and like his whole thing with they were wanted to see the Euro Burroughs like that in a way is having her confront the truth of who she is right, which to me sounds very sin eater esque and it's a forgotten God. But I'm like not 100% on this one. I'm like it.

1:53:55 Could be, it could not be. Yeah. What do you think? The bone parallel and the forgotten parallel are super overt for me, but it's so death adjacent, right? But to your point, it almost seems like this God of truth, whoever this God of truth was, has moved on like where this God of truth moved on to well.

1:54:13 Parthian is an option. Parthian is an option. Yeah. Parthian is an option. Yeah. I don't know. The parallels are undeniable. I think the thing that was interesting to me, those these confessionals were written in Word Marks and we don't really hear about like strange symbols or anything carved into the bones.

1:54:32 And in Prithean we just see like images of death. I don't know if all of them, like I don't think the ones that people wrote themselves are in Word marks, right. Because like Aiden and Broden can read them. It's just. But it's like, yes, the big story about Erawan is certainly gotten in Word marks.

1:54:47 Yeah, yeah. Gavin's was in Word marks. Yeah, yeah, I mean, the bone Carver does. Yeah, I agree with you. The bone Carver does some of this, like some of the question like he's paid in, he's paid in information. So in a way, paid in confession. Yeah, he's paid. He's paid in bones, but that's like how he records information. I'm sorry, there's AI think there's AI think you should leave sketch that Derek quotes all the time that says their bones are their money.

1:55:14 And that just passed into my head because we've been recording for three hours. But that's OK, Continue. We need to we need to wrap it up, yes. So Bone Carver, I think it's more likely that he's the God of truth and he's made certainly. I agree with that, yeah. I think he's more likely a descendant or a an ancestor of Reef. Then yeah, he's the God of truth. Yeah, I would agree with all of that. I mean, he came from somewhere.

1:55:39 I don't know where they came from. I'm still not really clear on what the death gods are. Hopefully I get there by the time we do that question. Yeah. And they're leaving bodies as husks. They're leaving bodies. A lot of things they're. Very valgy for sure. Very valgy. They're very. Valgy, but and they're leaving bodies as husks, but also a lot of things, a lot of big bads in this universe seem to eat life, which is very annoying. Right.

1:56:03 And there are other things that make it seem like maybe they're not. I don't know. We'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah. OK. Cool. Anything else on that one? Peacock. Peacock. All right. All right, So precog corner, this is where we put our crazy theories out into the universe. We don't necessarily think that they are true.

1:56:20 Sometimes we do, but we just want to put them into the universe with often very little evidence. Abby, what is your precog corner theory this week? It's not, it's not like the best 1. I don't love it, but but we have one other place where there are carved gates made of bone in the mass 1st and that is in the bone Carver in Lunatheon. So the quote for that is the boat had stopped at the base of worn crumbling steps.

1:56:43 The mists above them parted to reveal an archway of carved ancient bone, brown with agent spots. Memento Mori. It's set across the top and they're they're carved bones, right? We just talked about this. So did, and we. I'm going to back up a little here. Bryce, when she's in Prythian wonders what happens to the gods of original worlds once they go somewhere else.

1:57:02 Right, so the quote for that is? I don't know. Bryce said. I always wondered what happened to the gods of the original worlds when their people cross into Midgard. Did they follow them? Did I bring Erd or Luna or any of them with me? She gestures to the caves. Are they here, or am I alone, straddled in your world with no gods to call my own?

1:57:18 And Cassian tells us the Death Gods were once called Old Gods and were worshipped at as such, right. So the quote for that is old gods, we'd call them. They ruled the forests and the rivers and the mountains. Some were those things. Then the magic shifted to the high Fay who brought the Calderon, the mother along, blah, blah, blah. If the we think the old gods, we think these gods were there before the Faye and Prithian made their pilgrimage to Luna Theon, right?

1:57:44 And we specifically know that the Dust Court are the ones who went to Midgard and that we think that that the bone Carver was there with them, right? Did they bring a version of the bone Carver with them? And is he the one who carved those gates? I don't know. Or is he just going to Midgard because the person is a thin place? But I don't really know about that because I think you need the horn to do it.

1:58:09 But did they bring a version with him? And is that because we do have, I know we said the throne of glass Gods or hysteria, and maybe we're walking it back. But we do seem, we do clearly have gods in Midgard and gods in Irelia, right? That clearly have some overlaps, Right. So is this a similar thing where we have a version of the bone Carver, a different version of the Bone Carver in Midgard? Yeah.

1:58:32 I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. And I mean, if if the God of truth is just like a true throne of glass God, then we know that throne of glass gods can have different iterations of themselves everywhere. So. Right. I mean, that's a nice. Part I have then yeah, this all like they can be everywhere.

1:58:53 Right. The quote for that is not just gods, but beings of a higher, different existence, for whom time was fluid and bodies were things to be shifted and molded, who could exist in multiple places, spread themselves wide like Nets being thrown. They were as mighty and vast and eternal as a human was to a mayfly.

1:59:08 So is that just what the bone Carver is? Is it just a God? I don't know, I don't know. The God sitting at the bottom of the. At the bottom of the prison. I mean, he died, but did he? I don't know. Like I didn't slow down. What is death in this world? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. What's yours? Well, mine's about that.

1:59:32 But if he's the throne of glass God, it's like kind of moot. So mine, I don't love it either. I feel like I got kind of off the walls in this episode anyways. But the bone Carver we talked about this right, like seems to be most interested in favor because she died and he's like very much pressing on, like where did you go?

1:59:48 Where did you go? Was there like, was there another world portal? Like like what was happening there? Which isn't like which kind of actually makes me think that maybe he's not a throne of glass God because like, why are you so curious about death if you are a God? Like why didn't you know? But I don't know, like the throne of glass gods clearly don't really understand the realms because they freak out about hell realms and all that stuff.

2:00:12 But anyways. My thought when when thinking about like why he had fair look into the Erburus was that was too crazy to include in the actual question was did the Erburus somehow indicate to him that she did leave this world when she died and confirmed him? Like, hey, like when she when she looked into it, when she survived it, it was basically proof that she had left Prithian and come back.

2:00:38 Like she somehow that that mirror indicated that because it was a window to the world. Yeah. What world? What world? Yeah. Yeah, and then once he knew that she could look into it and survive, he knew that dying was just leaving this world. And so then he knew that he would die in that battle. Or he like he maybe he didn't know that he needed to die in that battle, but he seemed very comfortable doing it, right. His death is.

2:01:02 I could have sworn he looked toward me as the cauldrons power crashed into him. Could have sworn he smiled. And it was not a hideous thing at all, right? Yeah, he just was like goodbye, he seemed. Happy. Farewell. Yeah. So maybe that was confirmation to him, confirmation that he was looking for that.

2:01:20 Death in Corinthian is transitioned to another world. It's just a portal. And so every time you die, you go into another world and that is just death, at least in Corinthian. Yeah. And that's. No, I think it could the whole time. Yep, I think it could be. I think at some point we need to do a bonus episode on Death and the Mass first because it's so crazy and confusing and I don't know what it is anymore, but I agree with you.

2:01:42 At least, Yeah, I mean death and the mass verse. And I think it seems, it seems like it varies by book, right? Because Danica seems like she's gone. Yeah. Like, it seems like Danica's like, like Essence has run out. Yeah. Yeah. But she did go somewhere for a time, like, and was elsewhere. So yeah, I don't know.

2:02:08 Yeah. Cool. That's all I got. Do we want to do Reading Corner? We're reading the same things we were yesterday. Guys, we recorded yesterday, so we're still reading the same books. I'm reading Alchemized Abby, what are you reading? Alchemized. Great All right, well with that, this has been fun. You can find us on social media. We're on Instagram, Tiktok, YouTube. Dragons in the Details pod is our handle. We have a website Dragons in the details. You can submit a contact form there or you can reach out to us.viaemaildragonsinthedetailspod@gmail.com.

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2:03:18 For this week, love you. Bye.