ACOTAR: The Illyrians Deep Dive | Their Origins, Their Wings, The Blood Rite, and More!

0:00 They are afraid of woman's power. They are afraid to let women fly. They are afraid to let women train. They're afraid of witches, right? So the question is, why? What has happened to them that would make them oppress women? At brunch yesterday with one of our mutual friends, I got a new Kindle.

0:31 I left my Kindle on a plane, so I had to order a new one. Terrible. Yeah. Kind of a bummer. But also, like, my Kindle was pretty beat. Like Rory had like, chewed a corner. It was kind of an old model. It was like, it was OK. You know, I don't remember what we were talking about, but I just, like, pulled my Kindle out of my pocket. And she was like, you just have your Kindle in your pocket. I was like, yes, you not have your Kindle in your pocket. Do people not keep their Kindles in their pockets? That's like the whole point.

1:00 Won't fit in a pocket but like I have started just bringing it anywhere like cuz like. You got 5 minutes. It's like, way better than scrolling. Just, like, read your book. Yeah. The reason that I have the, like, original Kindle is because I like it to fit in my pocket. But I know that the Paperwhite is supposed to be better reading.

1:19 Yeah, I don't know whether this is, like, controversial. I did get only because I want to be so clear, only because this was the one that would arrive overnight and I did not want to live without a Kindle for more than one day. I got the version without ads. Like you can pay $20 more Version without ads. Wait, I'm obsessed with it.

1:42 Are we are we talking about ads like on the home? Screen. Yeah, on the home screen like so, this page, when your Kindle is locked, typically will have ads for books. Yes, I know because I got, Well, I what's really funny is I have a Kindle, right? And I get ads and they're like crappy romance books 9 times out of 10. But I figured that was because it was like for me. But then I got Derek a Kindle and he's reading spy novels, but he's still getting ads.

2:10 He gets crappy romance for the crappy romance style. Yeah. Oh, I thought this was more like targeted advertising, but I guess it's not. I guess it's just. The ad it is, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But I like got the one that came the next day. And if you can basically just have a Kindle that's $20 more expensive and it doesn't show you advertisements and it's kind of amazing. I genuinely thought for a second you were talking about some dystopian hellscape where Kindle had started inserting ads into books like, oh, you've read 5 chapters, time for an ad break. Can I imagine?

2:44 Of course I can imagine. Like, yes, I can definitely imagine that that would be so terribly horrible. Yeah. So Derek, on Friday, he, like, took the day off and had a little, like, mandate for himself. And he went to the bookstore. I'm like, oh, will you pick up this book for me? And he's like, you have a Kindle?

3:02 I'm like, yeah. He's like, when why wouldn't you read it on your Kindle? I'm like, look, the Kindle is for traveling and books that I want to read, read right this very fucking minute. But like, yeah, if I have a book on my TBR that like I know I want to read in a week or two, I'm going to get that at the bookstore.

3:20 Like I'm not the Kindles, not for everything. Like I do want to support the bookstores where I can. But then I bought a book for $0.99 on my Kindle this morning and I'm like, I don't know what to do about this. Yeah, it's interesting. I haven't ironed out my Kindle philosophy quite yet because I do.

3:39 I think that overall the Kindle has been a poor decision for me financially because I end up purchasing duplicates. Like that has been generally my MO so far. Like if there's a book where I'm not sure whether I'm going to love it, yeah, I will get it on Kindle. And then if I love it, I will buy the copy.

4:00 Like I like having the print book and that so far has been my general philosophy, but I'm not typically picking up books where I'm like. I'm almost the opposite where I will buy the paperback or whatever, like the physical copy and then if it's a book that like we're covering or where I'm like I need to be taking notes, then I buy the Kindle version.

4:24 But I'm almost always buying the paper interesting version first. Yeah, Because I want to take notes and I don't want to tote my copies of 4th Winger beat to shit like I want like I kind of want to, Yeah, I feel like. Or difference in lifestyle because I'm on the road so I'm like whatever I'm reading I need in this thing because I'm not going to lug my fucking 700 page copy of the will of the money on a fucking airplane.

4:50 Yes, but then also, as you know, what's hilarious because we both do this is we'll annotate in Kindle and then not read our fucking annotations, never read them and then text each other and be like, oh, wait, I did have the same exact thought that you had. I just didn't realize that what I do love is going back, going back and reading my Kindle, seeing that I've highlighted apart, think something in my brain like I was reading Crescent City the other day and I thought, oh, that really sounds like this.

5:16 And I open the annotation and I have word for word written the thought that I just had in my brain already. Yeah, OK. I'm a consistent. Creature. Yeah, although I never annotate on my physical Kindle. It's a. Nightmare. It stinks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's really bad, but the. I don't know, reading in the year of 2026 is an interesting time.

5:43 At least we don't have to deal with ads. In between the pages of box which would be. I hate that you just put that thought into the universe. I wish you would take it back. Honestly, I'd never even considered that as a remote possibility. I was just so excited that my Kindle has a little screensaver now. Yeah, I know.

6:03 That's cute. That is cute. It's cute. It's really cute. Yeah. No, I'm sorry for putting that out into the world. I hope I my God, we better not ever get to that point in our society. Anyway. With that, I'm Abby. I'm Ronnie. I'm Ronnie, this is Dragons in the details of podcast that helps you better understand your favorite fantasy books over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. We are currently covering, not for much longer, but for now, A Court of Thorns and Roses, the series also known as ACOTAR by Sarah J Mass Disclaimer These episodes will contain spoilers for the entire ACOTAR series.

6:45 If you've gotten to this point in our season, if this is your first episode, welcome. What an episode to come in second or last episode of this season. But these episodes will contain spoilers. The entire actor series. We will announce any other mass for spoilers ahead of time. We keep them to the end.

7:01 We have an actor section. We have a mass first section. Disclaimer This podcast is rated R Do not listen with your children. Each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are digging into the bat babies of the night court. The Illyrians, that is, the Illyrians in general, not as real. And Cassie and they had their own deep dives. You guys know this by now, But the Illyrians as a concept, we come with receipts.

7:27 We have quotes to back up any theory, so you can follow along if you're skeptical. Ronnie, do you want to do announcements? Yes, so as always, deep dive music and audio editing brought to you by Schwidley SCHWODLEY. Check them out on Spotify if you like our deep dive music. If you missed it last week, we are back to do regular episodes on YouTube. We hear your feedback.

7:53 So we for a little bit we're testing out how some things impacted our data. We had cut straight to our deep dives on YouTube. We heard you. You want the banter back on YouTube. So the banter is back on YouTube for full episodes are now on YouTube. So if you switched to Spotify, whatever, Apple podcasts, you can go back to YouTube if you would like to. Next episode is going to be our season wrap up. So we are going to be covering Book 6 predictions that will be our last formal episode of season 2, which is crazy. The reason we're telling you this is because after that we are going to have a mass verse only episode on the places of Prythian.

8:31 So that will technically be still an Acatar ish episode, but it will cast yeah, have mass versus spoilers. It's not going to have an Aqatar only section. So we're sorry to act our only listeners, but we're doing we're doing it outside of our Aqtar season. So we're going to do that as kind of like a bonus postseason 2 episode prior to our postseason 2 break.

8:53 And then season 3 is going to be on if you've missed it, Crescent City. So if you would like to continue listening to this podcast, if you like us, if you like our stuff, we would really suggest that you start reading Crescent City right now if you have not read it already. We know that a lot of you are reading it right now, which is great. We know that a lot of you are hesitant to start Crescent City because it's in an urban setting. It's a different style of writing. It is very much worth the read.

9:22 It will enrich your experience reading Sarah J Maas's books, including this series. Akhtar massively really recommend it. It's super fun. Here's my promise to you. If you like Akhtar, by the time you get to the end of Crescent City, you will love it. That's my promise. I agree. I think that's fair. I think that's fair.

9:42 Yes. And I think I hear you on the urban setting. I hear you. I am also that type like I will always prefer a more classic fantasy setting, but I think Crescent City does a nice job of mixing fantasy and like modern world and you get you do get a mix. I'm not going to say any more than that, but you get a mix. I will also say, and you're the one who actually pointed this out to me, Sarah J Mass has a pattern. Her first books are never what the series actually ends up being about.

10:14 And that applies to Crescent City as well. So I would just say keep that in mind. Keep that in mind as you read, too. Yeah. 100% but I will say the first book of Crescent City I enjoyed way more than the first book of A Court of Thorns and Roses. Totally, totally. But it was a way better book. Way better.

10:32 I think it's way better. Way more compelling plot line. I thought it was super fun, yeah. I agree. Cool. So season 3 Crescent City get cracking. If you want to stay with us, really recommend it. We will be taking a little break. We don't exactly know how long it will be yet, but we are going to take a break because we need to reread these books and they are wonk, which is why we're telling you to get started if you would like to get started. So we're going to take a little bit of a hiatus between seasons, but it's not going to be very long, we promise. And finally, if you like us, if you like what we do, if you want us to keep doing it, if you want us to do more, we ask that you please, if you don't subscribe

11:08 already, it would mean a lot if you did. We are small, we are growing. We're really excited about the growth. We want to do more of this. In order to do more of this and be able to have more time to focus on it and make time in our lives to focus on it. We need to have the numbers to back it up.

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11:43 Back to you. All right. Corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. I do not have any this week for ACOTAR only. Nothing. No, sorry, sorry, guys. All right, right. To the fun question. Ronnie, you can only choose one Illyrian to be your ally in the blood, right? Who are you choosing? So I did write this question. No weapons and no magic and no flight. The correct answer, in my opinion, is Cassian. It's Cassian 100% like there's like. It is Cassian in my opinion.

12:14 Did you ever? No, it's Cassia. It's always going to be Cassia, because also he'll like keep my spirits up. Azrael's going to go be a little emo baby in the corner. Yeah, I do think the second most correct answer is Azrael though, if you're not going to take. I'm curious if Azrael's shadows worked in during the blood right? I don't know, but if they did, that's an advantage. I would assume they did not because Nesta's magic does not work.

12:44 Yeah, I would assume they did not either. Yeah, yeah. But the other reason I think, and we'll obviously talk about the blood right more. But the other reason I think that the answer is Cassian. The second best answer is Azrael and then Reese, assuming those are like the Illyrians that you're choosing from, maybe you're going to go crazy and choose like Paul Tasar or something, I don't know. But assuming those are the three that you're choosing from, I think we're told that like Cassian is carrying Reese up and as really like covering in the back. So like, assuming that's what you know. It's Cassian.

13:15 It's Cassian, but I want to be so clear. Cassian is pretty much my answer to any question. Any activity you want to do with an Acatar character like Cassie, it's probably my answer. So like. The fact that you're choosing Cassian, not surprising. The fact that I'm choosing Cassian means, yeah, that it is really factually Gassian. Yeah, Cool.

13:34 Yes. All right, shall we deep dive? Let's deep dive all. Right, Ronnie, what are the Illyrians? We're starting with a softball question. Softball question. Pretty long answer. Yes, the Illyrians. All right. The Illyrians are a warrior race that reside in the northernmost region of the Night Court.

14:02 They occupy a region that is called Illyria, which consists of steps and mountains. They look kind of like high Fey but their ears are rounded and they have these giant leathery bat wings with claws on top of the thumb of the wing so they look like high face sized humans molded with bats. Bat boys, bat boys, bat boys and gals.

14:28 There's girls too. They are kind of infamous for being hard headed, difficult, and generally not very restful. As a unit, Reese has had to take care of Illyrians who rebel and some actually sided with Amarantha back in the day when Amarantha was running around. We know in Akamai Chapter 7 that some of them did support Amarantha and Reese and his inner circle had to effectively deal with them and take them down. So even though they are Reese's in the Night Courts army, they have had various rebellions and recent Cassian and Azrael do not shy away from having to put them down. Illyrians are not considered high Fey and they are not considered lesser ferry.

15:14 They are in their own category. We learned that in Akamai when Ferrud is just she's just figuring things out and they're kind of laughing at her. She says you 3 aren't high Fey and Cassian says Illyrians are certainly not high Fey and glad of it. And we're not lesser fairies, though some try to call us that. We're just Illyrians.

15:33 Considered expendable aerial cavalry for the Night court at the best of times, mindless soldier grunts at the worst. It is implied that they are much more powerful warriors than high Fey. And like really not even comparable in Aquar when we get Reese's point of view 2 years before the wall, he's kind of looking at the battlefield and picking out his his Illyrian warriors and trying to figure out like who has died. And he notes a pile of bodies and sees 1/2 shredded Illyrian wing jutted from a cluster of high Fey corpses as if it had taken all six of them to bring the warrior down, as if he'd taken them all out with him.

16:10 So six to one seems like a standard match for Illyrian to high Fey warriors. And we see this reflected kind of throughout the battles that they fight, right? Like the Illyrians can fuck up the Fey. Like they are very powerful, very powerful force. They have their own culture and their own ranks.

16:27 So they have Lords and bloodlines within their own race that they keep to So again and back in Akimaf when Cassian is kind of explaining the lore of the Illyrians, it's worth noting, right? The Cassian is much has much more reverence and Reese too really for for the Illyrians than Azrael does. So Cassian, even though he gets irritated with them at times, he's has a lot of respect for the Illyrian culture. He says the Illyrians, we love our people and our traditions, but they dwell in clans and camps deep in the mountains of the north and do not like outsiders, especially High Fey who tried to tell them what to do, but they're just as obsessed with the lineage and have their own Princess and Lords among them.

17:05 As he said, pointing a thumb in his direction is Red Siphon. Catching the light was the bastard of one of the local Lords. And if you think the bastard son of a Lord is hated and you can't imagine how hated the bastard is of a war camp laundress and a warrior, she couldn't or wouldn't remember. So there are Lords Princess and bastard children like children out of weddles.

17:24 Black children of affairs are very, very much frowned upon. So they have kind of their own shit going on within their culture. They we just talked about this last week. They fight in scale like armor. So they kind of look like winged reptilian beasts when they're fully armed. They've got those bat wings.

17:40 And then when they are armed to the teeth, they've actually got armor that makes them look like bass. Their arm literally, literally looks like that Illyrian fighting Leathers. The dark pants were tight, the scale like plates of leather worn, scarred and sculpted to legs. I hadn't noticed were quite that muscled, dark scratched armor. So I just thought that was interesting. Like they they are made to look kind of like the beasts of the night court when they're clad in armor to to fight. And then their power right there. Their power is sort of interesting. They have what they call killing power and little magical gifts beyond that.

18:15 So Reese clarifies, right, the power of stronger Illyrians tend towards incinerate now ask questions later. So again, that very like brutish reputation, they have little magical gifts beyond that. The killing power. The Illyrians bred the power to give them advantage in battle. They also wear siphons to focus that power.

18:33 So they wear siphons to focus and concentrate that killing power in battle. A normal Illyrian needs one. Cassian and Azrael each wear 7. So that's kind of fucking crazy. The siphons filter. This is again in ACMA. The siphons filter that raw power and allow Cassian and Asriel to transform it into something more subtle and buried into Shields and weapons, arrows and Spears.

18:56 Imagine the difference between hurling a bucket of paint against the wall and using a brush. The siphons allow for the magic to be nimble, precise on the battlefield when it's natural state lends itself towards something far messier and unrefined and potentially dangerous when you're fighting in tight quarters.

19:12 So they were siphons. They need them to basically make any use of their killing power other than just like a detonation. Effectively they have other power aside from the killing power, so recess. They have little magical gifts beyond that. They do have quick healing gifts. So we learned this from Azrael's childhood when he is abused by his brothers recess. When he was 8 his brothers decided to be fun to see what happened.

19:36 When you mixed an Illyrians quick healing gifts with oil and fire. The warriors heard Azrael screaming but not quick enough to save his hands. So Illyrians can heal quickly, which makes sense because they are fighting machines. Makes sense that they would need to heal rather quickly. I don't know that we necessarily observe too much of that, because whenever they get really fucked up, it seems like somebody needs to come in and heal them. But I guess we're just like simple, simple cuts. They can heal pretty quickly.

20:01 They also have really strong instincts to train and fly, which As Real obviously gets suppressed for most of his life. And when as Real introduces himself to Elaine, he describes Illyrians as born hearing the song of the wind. That could just mean. I have strong instincts to train and fly seems related, but I thought it was just an interesting use of the phrase given.

20:23 We are again talking so much about all of these people who hear wind on carpet for real, and that is in Akama chapter 24. If anybody needs the receipt, he says Cassie and I hail from a race of fairies called Illyrians. We're born hearing the song of the wind. They seem to have their own language of runes, which I completely lost over until this episode frankly.

20:47 When Reese let's Farrah into his mind to show her what Azrael learned from the Adder, he notes that Azrael's knife. Truth teller, says truth teller in quote silver Illyrian ruins. I forgot about that. So then I remember that Farrah had seen the knife and thought the runes must be like Illyrian. I think there's a line for that, but it didn't occur to me that Reese is confirming that these are in fact, their own language.

21:15 That's his consciousness that's saying over Illyrian runes, so. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't really process that until this this episode. And then Illyrians also, their whole, one of the like core parts of them and who they are and what they look like is their tattoos. So they get tattoos when they become warriors.

21:36 And notably, Farrah's tattoos are the same type of tattoo, right? So in Akamai, that said by Cassian, that we get the tattoos when we are initiated as Illyrian warriors for luck and glory on the battlefield. And Farrah later realizes in that passage, my tattoo, I realized, had been made with Illyrian markings.

21:54 Perhaps Reese's own way of wishing me luck and glory while facing Amarantham. Well, and it's not only that this suddenly just occurred to me, but that they get that they become Illyrian warriors after they go through the blood, right? Right. Like that's the point at which you become an Illyrian warrior And and Reese gives Feyra the tattoos during her trials, right? So I think it's almost Reese saying this is your blood, your blood, right?

22:18 Yeah, which is cool. Yeah, I have two other things that are not really, well, they're kind of about Illyrians. Illyrian blades are mentioned a lot in this series. We, we don't learn much about like what they look like until Seraphim steel comes into play, right? And then we get a lot of comparisons and like, learn a little bit more about what they look like.

22:40 And they're described as dark and ancient. So the Illyrians must have been around for a very, very long time. And that quote is from Akwar chapter 35. It gleaned as brightly as Amarin's eyes, that Seraphim steel. I unsheathed my Illyrian blade from across my back, the metal dark and ancient by comparison to the living silver flame in her hand. So the Seraphim steel is being described as a live silver flame new.

23:08 And this Illyrian blade is like dark ancient old which I thought was interesting. Is that? Whose sword is Amarin's holding a Seraphim blade. No more is holding a seraphim. More is holding a. Seraphim. And it has silver fire in it. Living silver Flame. It's very interesting. It's described. The steel is described as living silver flame. Yeah.

23:31 It doesn't actually have silver flame. It does not have silver flame. Interesting. Yes. Did you have anything else on the Illyrian? Yeah, I had a couple. You read this quote, but that you didn't dive into it. But I think it's actually kind of interesting. I have a couple other things too. But the Illyrians bred the power to give them advantage in battle. Yes.

23:50 Right. So I think this is really interesting one, the idea of there being like an Illyrian breeding program, right, because Cassian even says they have they had no idea where as and I got all the power because they they actually breed for power, right? Illyrian women are not allowed to fight basically, right? They are not fighters, but we're told that they're breeding for power, which implies to me there must be powerful Illyrian women, right?

24:18 Like if they're breeding for the power, that means that the two sides have to be matched, right? So like, why aren't they letting the women fight? Like what? What is the stem from which I think we'll get into the next question. And we're also told all Illyrians, all Illyrians have this instinct to fight and to fly when they're young. Those were the instincts that Azrael's that were suppressed for Azrael, right?

24:41 So like, and the women don't get to listen to those instincts basically, right? Like they can fly, but they're never taught how to fight. So it's really like, really bad for the Illerian women. Aren't allowed to fly. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's a good point. So bad to be an Illerian woman. A woman.

24:57 Sorry for woman. Sorry for Emory there. There's one fun little fact about the Illyrians, which I think has a fun mythology tie. So you mentioned this. They live in the Illyrian Mountains and the Illyrian steps, and they are called Illyrians, but we're told that they're actually originally from somewhere called the Mermidons, and we don't know what where that is.

25:19 The quote we have for that is the mountaineered, bitey and endless, so wide that he might as well have been a mayfly in the wind, A Cassian sword toward Ramiel's southern face, rising high enough to catch a glimpse of the shining and Blackstone jutting from the top. Who would put that stone atop the peak? He didn't know either.

25:36 Legend said it had existed before the Night Court formed, before the Illyrians migrated from the Murmidons. Murmidons, I don't know. Before humans had even walked the earth, even with fresh snow crusting Ramiel, none had touched that pillar of stone. So the definition of Murmodon is a follower or subordinate of a powerful person, typically one who is unscrupulous or carries out orders unquestioning, unquestioningly, right? So we have a follower, a follower of who who was leading the Silyrian army.

26:08 Where did the Sarah choose this name to be? The origins of the Illyrians, right? And the Marmadins were also the legendary, fiercely loyal and elite tribe of the sorry Thessalian warriors led by Achilles in the Trojan War, known for their immense strength and unquestioning obedience. So we're kind of getting this idea, unquestioning obedience, which doesn't really match with the Illyrians we know now. We know there's like disgruntled Illyrians, rumblings of rebellion within the Illyrian troops. But I, I think it's interesting that she chose this name and the implications that go with this name of them being led by someone perhaps not good, basically. And what I also think is kind of

26:52 interesting, you mentioned the Seraphims. The Illyrians are one of three winged winged humanoid creatures we get in Perthian, right? So we have the Peregrines and we have the Seraphim, but we kind of get clues that the Illyrians are fundamentally different than those other two. So obviously we get it with the whole fucking Pharaoh birth debacle and Pharaoh's birthing canal and the Illyrian wings being Bony when the Seraphin wings are soft and pliable, right? But we also have it with thee sin and his healing. So the quote for this is from Akor, Chapter 66. I swallowed.

27:32 How's Azriel alive? His back is fine, but Thiessen hasn't healed many alluring wings, so the healing is slow. Different from repairing peregrine wings, apparently. Obviously, we have bat wings versus bird wings here. So maybe that's just like, that's fundamental differences in anatomy you get with a mammal and with a bird.

27:49 But we're getting called out to, like, specific differences here, which I think is interesting. And I think that's all I had. I wrote they are not high. Fay, thank you very much. Yeah. Definitely do not want to be considered high, not high. Abby. Why do the Illyrians hate women so much? And why does Azrael hate the Illyrians too?

28:13 The Illyrians treat women like garbage, so the quotes we have for that. So all in Miss and Fury Chapter 16, The Illyrians, Reese smoothly cut in that light, finally returning to his gaze, are unparalleled warriors and are rich with stories and traditions, but they're also brutal and backward, particularly in regard to how they treat their females. They're Barbarians.

28:35 Airman said, and neither Illyrian male objected, more nodded emphatically, even as she noted Azrael's posture and bit her lip. They crippled their feet female so they can keep them for breeding more flawless warriors. When females come of age in the camps when they have their first bleeding, their wings are clipped.

28:51 Just an incision in the right place left to improperly heal can cripple you forever. So this is kind of that breeding program, for lack of a better word. But like that breeding idea, like women are really only good for having babies, which we hate. We know that Reese has given the Illyrians orders to train the girls, but they're resistant to it.

29:11 He also outlawed wing clipping, we find out, but no one's really listening to him. So the quote we have for that is you're training female Illyrian warriors trying to Reese gaze across the brutal landscape. I banned wing clipping a long, long time ago, but at the horse zealous camps deep within the mountains, they do it. And when Amarantha took over, even the milder camp started doing it again to keep their women safe. They claimed.

29:37 For the past 100 years, Cassian has been trying to build an aerial fighting unit amongst the females, trying to prove that they have a place on the battlefield. I love him so much. So far, he's vanished to train a few dedicated warriors, but the. But the males make life so miserable that many of them left.

29:53 And for the girls in training, a hiss of breath. It's a long road, but Devlin is one of the few who even let's girls train without a tantrum. So like Reese and Cassian are out here doing everything they can and it's just, it's just not happening basically. They also react viscerally to Nesta calling herself a witch. We've read this quote many times, but just for memory, for reminders sake.

30:15 So he noticed Nesta, he being Devlin here. What is that? Devlin asked. Nesta merely stared at him, one hand clamping the edges of her Gray cloak together at her chest. One of the other camp Lords made some side against evil. That's just so funny. They're like Oh my God, what is she that? Cassian said, too quietly.

30:34 Is none of your. Concern I picture like whatever the Illyrian version of like the crucifix is like the sign of the cross yeah no, like the. Like mother saving Yeah mother saving is she a witch? I open my mouth, but Nesta said flatly yes and I watched as 9 full grown weathered Illyrian warlords flinched. She may act like one sometimes Cassie and clarified, but no, she is high Faye.

31:05 She is no more high Faye than we are definitely encountered. So like they know they they're very scared of witches, which like we haven't met any witches. Why are they scared of witches? Like is this just a superstitious thing or like do they know Shriega? Do they know Shriega? What's going on here? I have one little note here and then I'll get back to kind of the main theory.

31:26 We have a quote Favor calls out. Devlin had complained when we'd first met that Amron and I were other as if he were possessed by some sense for such things. Amron made, Farrah made, NASTA made. Does Devlin have some kind of sensitivity somehow how some kind of radar for made things made people like all three of these people are made and he has a sense for it. Like how does he, why did he do that? Which I think is interesting.

31:53 So I have some speculation and then I have actually kind of like a crazy precog theory here. I'll just get into it with this question. Why not so? Yeah, why not? This does seem to me they are afraid of women's power, is what this reads to me. Right. They are afraid to let women fly. They are afraid to let women train. They are afraid to let women.

32:16 They're afraid of witches, right? That's what this seems like to me. So the question is why, like what has happened to them in their past that would make them so that would make them oppress women other than general terribleness. But it does seem to be like a specific sensitivity to like witches and whatnot. I want to talk about the Valkyries. We've we've talked about the Valkyries and Cochet, but the last battle of the Valkyries is actually really, really suspicious.

32:42 And Cassian kind of goes into it a bit. So in Silver Flames he said I fought beside the Valkyries for 5 battles, but that stopped at the battle of Manure Pass. His smile faded when most of them died to save it. The Valkyries knew it was a suicide mission from the start. Even Gwynn Stop fight, stop smiling.

33:01 Why did they fight then? Everyone there knew it would be a slaughter, but I've never been able to find anything on the politics behind it. I don't know. This is now casting and talking again. I don't know. I was a grunt for an Illyrian legion. I wasn't Privy to any of the leader discussion, but I had friends who fell that day.

33:17 The Valkyries fought even when the bravest males would not. The Illyrians tried to forget that I fought against males who were my superiors arguing to help the Valkyries. They beat me. Sunslish trained me to a supply wagon and left me there. When I came to the battle was over the Valkyrie sling. So basically the Valkyries went into this unwinnable battle and they the Illyrians did not help them. We get a couple other sketchy things about the leadership of the Valkyries.

33:44 Right. So Ameren said Ameren is talking about the Valkyries and he she says Ameren lifted her glass and salute. I liked those females. Never let a male boss them around though I could have done without their foolish king. He has as much to blame for their deaths as the Illyrians who walked away during that battle. So we're getting they didn't let a man boss them around, but they had a king.

34:07 Was it a female king? I know we do that sometimes, but like, what do you mean they had a king? And why did he lead them into battle? Anyway? What I'm getting to here is it seems to me like the Valkyries and the Illyrians had some kind of fighting relationship and then the Illyrians walked away from it basically for whatever reason.

34:26 And like maybe let the Valkyries die, maybe even like led the Valkyries to their death because they felt threatened by the Valkyries power. And we know the Valkyries. What we know about the Valkyries is they weren't a race. They were just women from all, from anywhere, right? Any woman could be a Valkyrie. So like is the source of the Illyrians hatred towards women somewhat tied to the Valkyries basically showing them up in battle and saying we are braver than you, we are better than you, we are better fighters than you, you're not not anything really.

34:56 I don't know kind about their idea. I said it was Precock. Yeah, it's interesting because it also makes you wonder whether the Valkyries had, like they had to have a leader. Apparently they had a king. Why would the Valkyries have a king? Yeah, this feels wrong. Sarah added it. It's a queen. Yeah, no, I like it.

35:16 I mean it does feel off that the Valkyrie suddenly just went into battle and didn't come out, especially when. It feels like a setup, yeah. Feels like a setup. Yeah, yeah. Especially when like, I don't know, like Cassian, like loved one. Yeah, and Cassian was. They literally chained Cassian to a cart instead of letting him help.

35:38 Right, Right. Like, that's really sketchy. Yeah, I don't know. Could have nothing to do with it. Held Cassian, king of High Burns chain. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically we're getting classic actually afraid of women's power in these fragile, fragile male egos. What's interesting though, and I'll let you get more into the Asriel stuff because I think you have more than that, is that Cassian has made his kind of flagship issue for his political campaign women's rights, right?

36:10 But he is still willing to say I am Illyrian. I love the Illyrians. They are backwards. I recognize this part of them, but I'm still Illyrian. We haven't really gotten that from as. Obviously he is still a champion of women. I'm not saying he's not, but he's not as like forward about it or vocal about it necessarily as I would say Cassian is.

36:29 But Azrael is the one who is like, I am not a Leerian, It's them and not me, right? Like AS is the one who's drawing the line in the sand here, which I think is interesting. But yeah, I'll let you speak to that. Yeah. Well, I do feel it's interesting, right? Because I think that Cassian, while he, Cassian, has not been wronged by women the way that Azrael has, right? Like Azrael's father's wife is the problem, right? Yeah.

36:57 Like was the problem for him and the reason that he was like, shipped off and locked away and all that shit. He doesn't have this huge pillar of his life dedicated to outwardly. Like, I am going to help women, but it's not like he doesn't, right? Like. No, of course not. With manners and like helping Elaine and he like goes into the temple to save all of the priests.

37:20 Of course, yeah are assaulted and very much cares, but it's more of a he. He definitely houses more trauma than yeah, Cassian seems to. Yeah, and to be fair, Azrael was held in a dungeon and tortured by Illyrians. His family is. They're Illyrian, right? So that could be part of it. I just think there's more untold time what has happened with Azrael than than what is actually told. Like you've mentioned, he nods when Amran says, when Amran calls Illyrians violent war mongering and Cassian's kind of like scolding him, right?

37:56 Like Azrael is like, yes, they are violent, they are war mongering. His shadows are coming out. He's like, fuck the Illyrians. And Cassian was like dude, like those are our people and he's like not mine. And he says amongst their kind, it's considered inappropriate to touch someone's wings without mission.

38:13 So he doesn't even consider himself Illyrian. He's like, get that shit away from me. I am not them. And Farrah notes it. She's like, they're kind, not his. It took me a moment to realize what he was asking. So he is very much trying to separate himself from from the Illyrians. And Reese. Reese like understands this trauma with him too, within him too, right? We get that in Frost and Starlight and notes this, he notes that Azrael still wears the Leathers, still has not tried to get his tattoos removed. Part of him was still Illyrian, always would be, even if he wished to forget it.

38:48 So I think like the reason that this is one question in my mind is I think the two are kind of inextricably linked. Like, I think a large part of it is because he is in the stungeon, was in the stungeon for so much of his life. But I think something is still happening. And I think it I think it might be related to his mother.

39:06 Like we do not know where his mother is. We know that there's something called Rose Hall. He knows that Rose Hall. We know that someone we know that is. We don't know that his mother is dead. I should say that we don't. She's alive. We know that she's alive. Yeah. Well, do we know that she's. We know Reese says get her something for me.

39:24 Yeah. But we don't, I don't think, if there's anything on paper that says Azrael's mother is alive. He says I believe that he's going to spend Solstice Day with his mother or visit his mother after Solstice. I suppose I didn't prep this the way it's written. Maybe we're talking about a grave, but that, the way it's written, led me to believe that she's still alive.

39:46 Yeah, OK, I think let us assume, let us assume that everything that's written implied heavily, heavily implies that Azrael's mother is alive at Rose Hall. We have not seen her. We don't know what her current situation is, but we know that Reese's mother knew her and that he is a bastard son of a Lord and her. And she, for whatever reason, does not live near them anymore. Like, she's away.

40:10 So what has happened to her? Like what? State is she in, I don't know, like what has been done to her? I just have a sense like I have a feeling that there is something active going on in his life between him and his mother that is untold. I totally agree. If it weren't like if that weren't the case, why would she not be with them? Like why would she not come to them? Reese's mother knew her.

40:33 There's no reason that they wouldn't all be together. Yeah, why? Like you're saying, why wouldn't she come live at Night Court? Why wouldn't she be in the Night Court? Why wouldn't she spend solstice with them? Why would Reese like sent have Azrael get a gift to bring her? Yeah, like it all. Just it's giving a sense of like maybe she's maybe she's institutionalized in some way, like permanently damaged something that is that is causing like continued trauma and a continued reminder because she is still alive and because he still goes to see her. I think, I mean she so we don't know where Rose Hall is. We don't.

41:14 I think it has to be in Night Court because at least in the early days of ACOTAR you like needed permission to go somewhere. Else to go somewhere else, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the question is what? What is the deal with Azrael's mother? That she is still alive, is not with him? I don't want to say aloud because I'm not sure what situation she was in, but like her son was in prison for the first eight years of his life. Where was she when that?

41:42 Happened. Capable of caring for him. Incapable. Incapable of caring for him. Why did he go live with his father if his mother was alive? Right? Yeah I agree. I I think we are getting set up for more of this story in book 6. I don't think we have been given enough yet to have the full understanding.

42:02 Like just again to compare Cassian and Azriel, Illyrians killed Cassian's mother, worked her to death, kicked him out, made him sleep in the snow as a three-year old, we're told right? And basically he was not shown kindness until he met Reese and he still is like these are my people. Azrael's mother is alive, obviously still not a great childhood, but like they didn't the Illyrians have not killed his mother and he is like they're Illyrians. I'm not Illyrians.

42:32 They at literally one point, Cassian says they both knew Israel would sooner disband and destroy Illyria than help it. Like we have not been told. Whatever is that motivation? I think yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, yeah. Cool. I think it I think it probably comes down to his mother because I think we've learned the trauma between him and his father's family.

42:53 And I don't think that that really Azrael is a pretty tough guy. I don't think some scarred hands would cause the level of. No, I mean I. Right, but. And he killed his brothers, right? Him and Reese and Cassian killed his brothers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he has murdered, I don't want to say murdered.

43:12 He has killed the sons of an Illyrian Lord. I don't know if that Illyrian Lord is still alive or if his wife is still alive. But his sons are dead and his mother is still. Alive and the place called Rose Hall that we don't know what is going on with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But but apparently he goes to without Reese, which is just odd. It feels odd.

43:40 Yeah. And like, Reese's mother was a seamstress, right? So like, how who would she have known? How would she have? Known women, Yeah. Reese's mother was lowborn. Yeah. OK. Next question, why did Balthazar, if you guys don't remember who Balthazar is? Well, you're about to figure it out. Help Nestor Balthazar is the Illyrian warrior who helps Nesta.

44:03 This is a wild speculation question. This is just a throw shit at the wall and see. The explanation of who Balthazar is is half the answer to this question. Yes, seeing as there's not tons of answers. But there is fun wild speculation in my opinion. Maybe it's maybe it's not going to be fun for you guys so there's chapters if you hate it all right. Why did Balthazar help Nesta during the blood right There is a random Illyrian with a gash down his face in the blood right?

44:29 Who helped Nesta Port of Silver Flames Chapter 66 Nesta meets him Nesta worlds dagger out to find an Illyrian male standing 10 feet away. How he'd crept up, how he'd survived given the gash running down the side of his face. He noted her own wounds, her nakedness beneath the coat, the bare legs and the boots, the knife.

44:51 Yet no lust or hatred clouded his brown eyes. The male carefully pointed to what she'd mistaken for a leaf covered boulder. That's a cave big enough to fit inside. Nesta drew herself up to her full height, let him see the cold violence in her eyes. You won't survive an hour on the ground once night falls.

45:07 The male said, his boyishly charming face neutral. And if you're not already scaling a tree, then I'm going to guess you've got someone hurt with you. So this guy, he's got a gash down his face. He has a boyishly charming face. He seems to just be wanting to help. So Nesta is reasonably suspicious because everyone that she's met so far wants to kill her, so that's fair. But he seems to want no trouble.

45:27 He knows who Nesta is. We also quickly learned that he knows who favorite is. So Nesta says and I have you take my weapons and kill me in my sleep. The male's brown eyes flickered. I know who you are, I'm not stupid enough to go after you, Nesta says. It's the blood right? You'd be forgiven. He says. Pharaoh curse breaker would not forgive me for killing her sister.

45:46 Nesta says. So you do this to gain her favor. He says. Doesn't matter. So Balthazar then helps her and Emery into a cave and gives Emery his thick wool wool cloak, which is very kind, and they switch off watch all night. It seems to at one point maybe read her mind. That's maybe a little bit of a stretch, but the quote is.

46:07 A quick inspection in the dim light revealed that though her friend remained unconscious, the wound on Emery's head that stopped bleeding but nest of thoughts are cut off. You'll find plenty of clothes today. Balthazar said, seeming to read her mind. He stepped into the daylight and peered around, then cursed under his breath. Plenty of clothes that could be nothing. That could be absolutely nothing. Nesta claims that he's more interested in politics than killing.

46:31 She says I survived by dumb luck. And an Illyrian that's more interested in politics than killing because he basically didn't kill her because he wants to be in Farah's favor. Should Nesta come out of this alive and remembers that this kind man named Balthazar didn't kill her and helped her in a cave.

46:45 So we have an Illyrian warrior who is even keeled with a boyish face, knows exactly who Nesta is. Paul's Farah curse breaker offers Emery a cloak, seems to maybe read Nesta's mind, but that's probably a stretch and might be more interested in political favor than killing. I will say, before talking about anything here, this is a wild speculation question. I do not feel strongly about a single thing that I'm about to stay here.

47:10 Wait, are you about to go where I think you're going to go? A few people call Farah Curse Breaker once in the series, like a lot of people call Farah Curse Breaker once. But two main characters call Farah Curse Breaker, repeatedly and almost inclusively, and that is the Cereal and the Bone Carver, both of whom are allegedly dead as of Aqua War.

47:29 Not where I thought you were going to go, but so now I have a fun theory, but keep going. You can go somewhere totally different, that's totally fine. I don't think either of these are unique possibilities, but I think both of them are possibilities because the Bone Carver dies as an Illyrian warrior and the cereal dies in the possession of a thick wool cloak, and Balthazar shows up with both of those things.

47:52 I personally like the Bone Carver possibility a little bit better here because we know the Bone Carver can take just about whatever form he wants already. And we know that the Bone Carver knows exactly who Nesta is, and we know that the Bone Carver is very much more interested in politics than killing.

48:10 And it's all of the Bone Carver's energy, right? He's like, I don't want any trouble. I'm just here to help. I'm here to shepherd you through this process. And I also, by the way, you're never going to see me again. And I have a boyish face and that's it. Goodbye. Here's why I love the idea of it being the bone Carver.

48:27 The Balthazar. The most famous Balthazar in history is one of the wise men from who visits Jesus right in in the Bible. Were you about to get here? Am I ruining this? You can, yes, but you can go. That's OK. Nix is born on the last day of the blood right? And the bone Carver appears to Farrah as Nix. If it's the bone Carver, we're still and Nesta needs to survive the blood right for Nix to be born. Nix needs to live.

48:56 And Nix needs to live. Right is the only person who can make him live. Yeah, so if this is the bone Carver setting up the pieces, the ancient players are back. And I also love that because it's one of three wise men and we have three death gods. One of. Three that arrives at the birth of this like, miraculous fucking baby, Yeah. Oh, I love that.

49:20 Yeah, yes. So favorite Curse Breaker. I think Curse Breaker to me is the calling card here. I acknowledge that it is out there because plenty of people, again, plenty of people call her Curse Breaker. But this man shows up and then disappears. Never again do we see him. He gives her no trouble. He wants nothing. He wants to interface with No 1.

49:43 He wants to be forgotten. He has a boyishly charming face. He cares about politics. He knows who Nesta is. It's giving Bone Carver energy. Here's another point for that argument and I and I clocked this, but I didn't write it down because I didn't have a cohesive theory. Gwynn when they meet up with Gwynn later in the bone in the bone, right? In the blood, right?

50:05 She has climbed a tree at one point, but the beasts that are prowling the forest don't bother her and they're like, they must only be attracted to Illyrian scent basically, right? And there is a moment in The Cave and Gwynn is like, OK, well baby, the two of will be enough to cloak Emma basically, right?

50:24 There's a moment in The Cave where a creature walks by and they're like right at the edge of The Cave, but it doesn't bother them. If he's Illyrian, that creature would have smelled. Should have bothered him. Should have bothered them, but it doesn't, so it's not Illyrian. Yeah, yeah. And he has a gash on his face, so he was bleeding too.

50:45 And he was bleeding. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. That would be so great. All roads lead to Nicks and the bone. Carver all roads lead. Really all roads lead to the bone Carver, but I would prefer that all roads leads all roads. Yeah, but it's about Nicks. It's about Nicks. Yeah, I mean, the bone Carver shows up like she's the best.

51:06 Shows up in fucking book 2 as Nicks. As Nicks. Yeah, yeah. Crazy. Yeah, No, I. Love that idea. Terreal maybe. I think, yeah, I think the cereal, I'm going to choose to believe the wool cloak is a red herring here. Or if the bone Carver, well, this goes back to your cereal is actually kind of dead theory, right?

51:28 If the cereal and the bone Carver are both in this like death realm and the cereal is just like, here, have my cloak. You're going to need it, you know? But no, I don't know. That's crazy. I thought for a second you were going to say it was Tamlin A shifted Tamlin, but that would be so. One thought that I did have before I went down like my opinion less crazy train route is 1 of Eris's hounds.

51:48 If they can shift. If they can shift, maybe it's a crazy knife theory, but we don't need to go there. I love the bone Carver idea. Let's stick with that. I love the idea that. This we'll stick with the bone. Carver idea. Cool. OK for this question nothing. Nothing. It's the bone Carver. You heard a difference so we're calling. No, I had absolutely nothing All right, that was great. This concludes our Agatar only section we're about to talk about the mass verse.

52:14 If you have not read all of Crescent City all throw no glass, we highly recommend you stop listening, but if you want to keep listening, that is your prerogative too. You can find us on social media. We are dragging from the details pod on all platforms. We have a discord. It will be LinkedIn the show notes.

52:31 We are on YouTube, we are on TikTok, we are on Instagram, We are on Facebook. We are on Pinterest. Now if you want to follow us on Pinterest. I don't know how Pinterest works guys just throw some stuff on there we'll see what happens that is it from us. If you like what we do, we would love it if you subscribe.

52:44 And as we said, next week we'll be our last Aqatar only or Aqatar episode and we will catch you guys next week and then in season 3. I love you. Bye. Love you. Bye. Except for anybody who read the Mass verse, because we're going to talk about spoilers. Now, which, let's be honest, is most of the end anyway.

53:01 OK, all right, 320 Mass verse cosms. OK, so like, also the Illyrians could hate women because they're torture and leader was a hellish woman named Vesper is followed by seemingly another tyrannical woman named Thea, Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. All right. Could all, all roads also lead to Thea? But we'll get there, I think with the next question. Yeah, yeah, maybe.

53:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Do you have any cosmes? I do. I do. So I have a social media shout out slash omission. I'm not actually going to shout anybody out because not everybody was very nice about how to bring this up. But there was some discourse about why time might have slowed in the scene where Nesta saved Fareham and I wanted to talk about it.

53:58 Somebody made a good point buried in a bunch of really not nice comments. So your theory, which I thought was a great one, is that time slowed in that scene was before Nesta laid a single finger on the trove, which everybody in the comments forgot about. Time slowed because in the mass verse, which we learn in Crescent City, right when Micah dies, Hunt says this in the mass verse when a great power dies, time slows and warps and a second could last a day, an hour, whatever. And the interesting point about that scene in particular, I think the most likely scenario is that Nick's is a great power that was dying or maybe Pharaoh was a great power that was dying one of the two one of the two of

54:41 them, maybe both of them fine. But what's interesting that could be like an alternate and and if if this is true, we used to think, because I don't know what this means is in the situation where Micah dies, Hunt feels time warp right from where he is, which is very fucking far away. So he feels it in that scene Nesta feels time slow, but in Cassian's POV which is like in the same time, he sees golden light flicker and then Nesta is suddenly over by the bed.

55:10 So it seems like the door is open for time to have only slowed for some reason for Nesta. If that is the case, is Nesta able to move like light? Think that, I mean, we can go through it line by line again, but I think that the Cassian seeing Nesta move across the room happens after the time slowing and warping and it's we're getting like this 3 seconds of time from Nesta's POV and then we're getting like the next three seconds of time from Cassian's POV. I hear what you're saying that it's not like everyone felt it. Yeah, that's the only like comment. It isn't.

55:46 We're getting POV switching, but it's not clear that everyone felt it. That's yeah. That's a precog theory. Yeah. Yes. For fun, just for funsies. This whole podcast is just for funsies. I have a similar one in that vein. It's also about time slowing. It was comment on our theory that when Reese died, what he actually did was tumble through worlds the way that Aylan did when she closed the word gate.

56:12 So the comment with this is on Instagram from Megan, and I think it's a great idea. She said this is top of mind after Monday's episode. Would this explain why time does not slow for Reese's death? He didn't actually die die, he was world walking. Same for Aylan but we understand she's alive because we have her POV.

56:31 So when Reese dies in a Qatar, time does not slow. Which seems like kind of a plot hole because we're told Reese's is powerful as an Asteri right? And when the Asteri die time slows. Is it because he wasn't actually dying? He was world walking, but Farrah felt it as him dying because the bond was no longer there, because he was in another world. I thought it was a really good idea and I love that. So thank you, Megan.

56:54 That was a great call out. Yeah, which just like again the deaf question, because if you just appear dead when you are world walking, like what are we dealing with here? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. This is a whole lot. It could be something. Could be nothing for sure. Yeah. Hold on. Let me close these blinds.

57:11 OK. All right, our next question I'll ask myself. What are the Illyrians? What are the Illyrians, actually? Actually, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right you ready? So I think we maybe have already gone over this exact phrasing on this podcast, but just for memory's sake, we get a lot of questions. We get a lot of questions about how we know that the Esteri created the Illyrians because we say this a lot right, The Esteri created the Illyrians.

57:37 Vesperus told us this. So the quotes we have the reason we know this like very explicit, like a theory like this is candid. So the females nails gouge deep lines into the crystal, but the lid held. She searched beyond Bryce, her gaze falling upon Azrael. Her lips curled. A foot soldier. Remember what I said about the Murmodons?

57:59 Excellent. Kill this insolent female and free me. She pointed to Bryce. So that's, that's first calling Azrael foot soldier and then the female before them, she was the Esteri who'd ruled here. Thea's mistress. The Esteri's blue eyes lower to the dagger. This is truth teller. You dare draw a weapon before me against those who crafted you, soldier from night and pain against those who crafted you.

58:25 So like she literally means that the Esteri made the Illyrians the same way the Esteri made the Molochem in Crescent City, right? It's not that crazy. Like this is what they do. They make things. If you listen to our creatures episode, made everything. OK so the Esteri made the Illyrians to be their foot soldiers. That is basically what I'm concluding from this scene. To add on to this, Vesperus also starts talking about Analius. So what she says is did Fionn send you them to slay me in my sleep or was it that traitor Analius? I see that you bear his dagger as his embassy emissary or his assassin.

59:03 The word must have meant something to Azrael. The warrior let out a small noise of shock. Reminder real quick on who analysis. The quote we have for that is NASA listened, Nesta listen to the low level Illyrian soldiers whispering about how Cassian had thrown that spear, how he cut down soldiers like stocks of wheat, how he'd fought like Analius, their most ancient warrior God and the first of the Illyrians.

59:24 So Analius was the first Illyrian that was made by the Esteri. Vesperus knows him. Theon knows him. Theon knows him, and Vasperis calls him a traitor, right. So to get back to kind of what Ronnie was talking about before, what we were talking about with why the Illyrians might hate women, it seems like maybe Vasperis was like perhaps actually in charge of the Illyrians, and obviously she's female and that the Illyrians rebelled against her. And we're not happy, justifiably so, but we're not happy with this women, this woman in power.

59:57 And that also lines up with Celine's story about the high ladies as well. Too, right? Like she saw what Thea did with this power and she decided not to become high lady and she kind of ruined it for everyone else, right? So it's kind of like similar through lines where early Prithean history is filled with corrupt women and today's women are bearing the brunt of that impact, for better or worse. She also says she says that Azrael's power is and always would be hers.

1:00:25 I wrote in all caps before reading this quote. So much interesting shit happens in this scene. We will talk about it in Crescent City. We will do a Vesper episode, it will be epic. So there's a lot of interesting stuff that's going to happen here. I'm going to focus on the Azrael part. A whip of Blue Magic shot through the world, a ribbon of cobalt piercing the Starlight.

1:00:42 In darkness, she could see every loop and coil as it wrapped around Vesperus's neck. So this is Azrael's magic looping, right? Azrael's magic is the cobalt blue, it's looping around Vesperus's neck. She let out a strangled laugh as blood leaf from her mouth. Still so ignorant. Your power is and will always be mine. Blue Magic appeared at her fingertips, absorbed from the Illyrians attack.

1:01:07 So the same like remember the Middingard worm absorbed Azrael's power. Vespers can do it too. She wrapped it around one hand like a glove and grasped the Star Sword's handle as if it provided the barrier she needed, allowing her to touch the blade. Vespers yanked the Star Sword free and let it clatter to the stones coated with gore.

1:01:25 I have no idea why Vespers can't touch the Star Sword, but that is a question for another day. OK, Vespers. This is described as having blue flame, blue fire in her eyes. We talked about this at great length in our Bone Carver episode as reals power manifests as blue. So I do not know if that means there is a direct link between Azrael's power and Vespers's power.

1:01:49 Like I don't know if she could control Cassian's power which we know is red, or if this is the more general all Illyrian power is mine and always will be. Or if she's like for some reason, especially in with the blue guys. I don't know. I don't know the difference between the power colors. So basically they are the Prythian version of angels right?

1:02:06 They are the foot soldiers that were created by the Esteri to serve as their army on Prithean. Not that crazy. We've seen this in Crescent City. Here's what I think is interesting. What were the Illyrians made from? I think is a huge question, right? Because we have Cubanoid bodies with leathery wings, so Vesperus says they were crafted from night and pain.

1:02:30 I could find absolutely no other reference in the night, the mass first to night and pain. So that pretty much tells us nothing. But let's talk about the leathery wings. What I thought of was, do you remember pain and panic from his, from Hercules? It's like that's what I thought of. Panic reporting for duty. Best characters in that movie.

1:02:50 All right so the leathery wings, Where did the Illyrians leathery wings come from? Obviously the answer is either Hell or Valk or they are one of the same. So for Hell at the end of House of Earth and Blood Crescent City one when Bryce is fighting the demons we get arm was numb from the bite of the gun. Every time she fired a wreaking blood covered her and there was no end to the snapping teeth, the leathery wings, the raging lightless eyes right.

1:03:15 So demons have demons from hell have leathery wings. Apollyon again popping up appears to hunt with leathery wings. Apollyon actually appears as seething darkness with leathery wings. I'm like Reese, what are you what's happening? But the quote for that is he didn't want Bryce in a place like this, so dark and empty and yet awake.

1:03:37 Wings rustled nearby, and not the soft feathers of his wings, but something leathery, dry. Who's there? The darkness absorbed his voice, muffling it like the Bog of Orid. The leathery wings whispered again, and Hunt twisted his head towards the sound. Moving his head was the only thing he could actually manage.

1:03:55 So Apollyon appears as darkness with leathery wings, basically, right? If that's not a huge fucking neon sign that like the Illyrians are from Hell, I don't know what is. Bryce sees Azrael's wings and calls them demon wings. She says she glimpsed black boots, dark scale like armor over a tall muscle body.

1:04:14 Wings, great black wings, a demon's wings. So Vesperus has specifically never heard of Apollyon. She specifically never heard of hell. She gets really scared when Bryce says it. Like Apollyon was able to eat one of you basically, right? Like she doesn't like that she says she's never heard of hell, but we have all these leathery wings with hell.

1:04:35 So I don't really know how those two things line up. But then we have obviously the Valg as well, right? So the Wyvern have leathery wings, fowl creatures. So in one of the bonus chapters, Ember calls Cassian's wings dragon wings, right? Dragons and Wyvern, very, very similar, right? So the Wyvern have leathery wings. The Ilkin also have leathery wings. So the quote for that we have is Ilkin as they landed claws out and bearing those flesh shredding teeth. The Leathery wings it seemed marked them as some slight variation of the ones who attract them in oak walled, a variation or refining of an already ruthless hunter. So leathery wings points towards Valk or hell origins for the Illyrians for that part of their

1:05:16 anatomy at least. I do want to throw out one more option to be a little less crazy. There does seem to be an on Pythean option for this as well. And those are the kind of other bat like creatures that are under the in the tunnels that Bryson, Nesta and Azrael go through. So a teeming massive things crested the entrance, smaller than the beneath the dungeon, but almost worse, cruder, more leathery, like some part of sort of primordial bat lizard hybrid. Black tongues tasted the air between flesh, shredding clear teeth like the cristalos bread and rays for eons in darkness. So we do have these big bat like creatures underneath Prythian. Maybe the wings came from that.

1:05:57 I don't really know. But like fairy Valk fairy hell. So that's the wings part. Do you have any thoughts on that? I'm. Wondering because yes, Vespers Dozen doesn't recognize anything related to hell, but she certainly used the Cauldron and we talked at length in our Cauldron episode about how hell the Cauldron is. Seems yeah, and we know that she was making shit with the Cauldron and we have seen people put into the fucking cauldron. Yeah, so.

1:06:26 It was Analius just put into the cauldron. Analius via the cauldron and that is how the wings part of him ended up so hell like. So hell, like, I think that ties very nicely into my next part of this answer, which is OK, What is the human part of the Illyrians? Because the Illyrians are extremely, extremely witchy.

1:06:51 Except for the fact that they're men. All right, so you read this quote before, and I'm sure you read it for a particular reason. He sat down, his fork blinking. I might have even called him self-conscious. He said. Yes, obviously. This is Azrael Hacen and I hail from a race of fairies called Illyrians. Were Born hearing the Song of the Wind highlight it under Meryl.

1:07:12 OK, is that you? Manon? Manon Manon. All right. Astorin says basically word for word that hearing the wind is a sign of having iron teeth blood. This is from Queen of Shadows, I believe. So the quote for that is you've never heard the wind calling your name a lead lock in, never felt it tug at you. You've never listened to it and yearn to fly toward the horizon to foreign lands.

1:07:38 You would hear that wind girl, she said with expert quiet. Because anyone with iron teeth blood does. I'm surprised you're mother never told you. It's passed on through the maternal line. The maternal line, right? We're told that the Illyrians have these like breeding for power right? The only power that Illyrians have is brute killing power.

1:07:59 The only power that Iron Teeth wishes has is the yielding, which is a brute killing power right? Are the Illyrians made from witches? Somehow I like are were the witches dipped into the cauldron. We also get this line, which I think is really crazy talking about Manon specifically with the Bloodhound Ilkin trait that's tracking her.

1:08:21 We get the teeth were black stumps, the tongue thick and red for tasting the air and spreading from that white body. The method of Manaj transportation wings. You see the Bloodhound perd. You see what he can give you. I can now taste the wind smell. It's very marrow, just as I smelled you across the land. So like we have here this Ilkin saying we can put wings on you. We're thinking about putting wings on you. Basically.

1:08:48 Do you want wings? Like we could do it leathery that wings. I want to go back to the woman hating idea again. We are told that witch powers don't set in until they're first bleeding. The quote we have is you must have been 8 or 9 when magic fell. The witchlings who were your age at that time the Sentinel went on never even had a chance to fly. The power doesn't set in until their first bleeding. At least now they have wyverns but it's not the same as it. Illyrians clip women's wings at their first bleeding when they would be getting witch powers basically right. So is this wing clipping a way to we know that they still have the power right?

1:09:28 We know they still have the brute killing power, but basically it's like the wing clipping way to kind of like level the field because the Illyrian women are actually witches and are actually like way more powerful than the men and like the men just can't handle that kind of one more fun thing. We've talked about this quote a lot. Reese calls Nesta and Illyrian, right? Like Reese says Elaine is Elaine, he repeated. Nesta is she's Illyrian.

1:09:55 I mean that as a compliment, but she's an Illyrian at heart. So there are no exclusive excuses for her behavior. We've talked at length about the Iron Teeth imagery we're getting with Nesta. So like, is this also a nod to she's an Illyrian because she's an Iron Teeth witch and because the Illyrians are in fact descended from Iron Teeth witches? I understand that there's a lot of male Illyrians. I get that.

1:10:17 Like. They bleed red but yeah. And they bleed red. I understand all of that. I'm saying origins. I'm saying their origins. A lead also bleeds red, right? Like, yeah, it's diluted for sure. But like, were there origins witchy? Yeah. Yeah. Or did they have common origins in Hell and Valk? Valk, which I think is almost certain, yeah. I don't know.

1:10:39 I don't know. We have witches on Irelia and we have riches on Midgard, which I need to think about more. I think about it but. Yeah, yeah. I mean the wishes on. Midgard are quite different. They're quite different, right? Did did the where did the witches on Midgard come from? We got our, that's our Crescent City season. They come over.

1:10:58 They're like doing with the shifters. A bunch of shit. Yeah, I don't know, a little whack a doodle, but I mean, to me, the what is it? We're born. Hearing the song in the wind is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're yeah, they're kin. They're kin, yeah. I also think we now have a nice opportunity to learn what an Illyrian female warrior really looks like in Emory. In Emory, we have.

1:11:24 So female warrior, A woman warrior who won the blood, right. Who's Illyria? Yeah. Yeah. With wings. Is she going to get siphons? Like, I mean, they are clipped. Yeah, but. I'd be sick if touching. Maybe Nesta. Her wings are back. Yeah, well, I was going to say maybe Nesta can heal her wings with the trove.

1:11:42 I don't know. Yeah, that would be good. I don't know. Those are my thoughts. What are your thoughts? We had a lot of the same thoughts. I mean I did the murmodons in this section because like. It is literally the word meridon beans, hench men, they are vesperous is hench men. She was like foot soldier. Kill him, kill her.

1:12:04 Yeah, kill her, get it done. And they're like likened to ants, which is not a very flattering way to describe the Illyrians. Yes, I did find it interesting. So a couple things. I know we've talked about this before, but it is the Illyrian episode. And I noticed that when we don't cover things in completeness, you guys definitely notice. After her crochet episode, somebody comments commented like how did you not talk about Swan Lake? Like we have talked about Swan Lake. So we're going to talk about it.

1:12:29 We're going to try and talk about all the things we do not have too much on in this episode on tattoos specifically. But tattoos have many different purposes in the mass verse, right? So in Crescent City, they can be loaded with witch ink and be a suppressant. They can also be loaded with other shit and be an enhancement like a trove item. So the Illyrians have these tattoos that they get upon becoming a warrior.

1:12:55 Are they somehow like, what is what are the origins of these tattoos? Right? We've talked about the whirls and squirrels, the possibility that those are word marks. Are they somehow empowered, somehow suppressed by these tattoos? And why do they get them right after blood? Right? You look like you want to jump in. Yeah, I had an idea.

1:13:14 It's about your favorite black crown. Yeah, the black. Crown with witch ink is a suppressant like it is like you obey me. So is that what these leery and tattoos are? And the Black Hat, Black Crown, Cassian and Azrael are way more powerful than everyone else, and Black crowns cannot hold. Princess of hell, Princess of Hell.

1:13:33 And we think they're both. Princess. We think they're Princess of hell, Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. So maybe they are so just sorry. So catch everyone up here, Black Crown. Are we doing that thing? So what Abby is referencing is when I said in Crescent City they can be loaded with which ink and act as magical suppressants, what I'm referring to is Hunt has a black crown on his head.

1:13:54 That's the Halo tattoo that the Princess of Hell basically tell him used to be the Asteris mode of controlling beings in hell. And they were. They called it a black crown. It was like a suppressant and a way to control them, make them part of their army. They cannot control Princess of hell. Black crowns cannot control Princess of hell. So if the Illyrian tattoos are in any way suppressants or ways of exercising control, and Cassian and Azrael have elements of Princess of hell inside them, it makes sense that they have 7 siphons and most Illyrians only have one. Because the Princess of hell look at Hunt and they're like why are you able to be controlled by a black crown? That doesn't make any sense.

1:14:38 You have some of us and ultimately he is able to kind of resist the Black crown in a way. Not sure it totally works because we are told that from a young age Cassian and Azrael ardos, or at least Cassian is just way stronger than everyone. But he also is a Prince of hell, had Prince of hellogenetic material in him. So are they somehow empowered or suppressed by these tattoos? Were they fed like lore to keep them getting these tattoos as part of the tradition?

1:15:10 Their tradition? When actually it was a mode of control imposed by the Daglin Theasteri that were there. And then in Throne of Glass, Aylan has a path home via the tattoo map on her back. So we know that she had word mark tattoos on her back too. So there could be stories or memories in these tattoos as well, which I think would not be surprising, not as exciting, but wouldn't be surprising if the Illyrian tattoos had, you know, stories of their history.

1:15:38 But it would be interesting to consider if they have stories of their history that they don't really understand, right, that they don't know and they've been getting them tattooed on themselves all this time. But I do think that this elite, these Illyrian rooms. Word marks had that thought when you said that, but then they don't recognize the tattoo on Bryce's back, which we also think are word marks.

1:15:59 So I don't, I don't know. You're right, but I feel like that has to just be a whole because truth teller seems that grave. Truth teller. Yeah, with Illyrian rooms that are not the language of the hysteria. I totally agree with you. Like it has to be. It has to be. Yeah, unless the language of the hysteria is not word marks, which we could be misunderstanding.

1:16:20 Like that could totally be the case. Either way, it should match the tattoo on Bryce's back. Back, though, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe Reese is a lying motherfucker. Reese has learned many languages for exactly occasions such as this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, the only other thing I would add is that like down down to the Illyrian fighting techniques, the Astiri influence comes through right?

1:16:49 Like still to this day, the Illyrian sword motions are in an 8 pointed star fashion. And like Sarah Jamas, like has this thread pulled through for us very nicely all in one quote. Like right. Nesta is like Bryce, you have an 8 pointed star tattoo on your chest. I had one on my back. I thought it was because of my Illyrian fighting techniques that I learned, but it's not.

1:17:10 It's because of the star born tattoo. That's crazy. So yeah, they're fighting techniques. To this day, the training is still tied to a Steri fighting patterns. Yeah. Interesting. And so it makes me wonder, like, how much of that power is still coming through? Like is is the killing power that the Illyrians use still a stereo power somehow?

1:17:32 This is where I get, I don't know. This is where I get I, I, that hadn't even occurred to me. But yeah, of course. The Illyrian technique is called the 8 pointed star because they were created by the Osteria. That is what that is, the through line. You're so right. That hadn't even occurred to me.

1:17:45 The quote is. Nesta went silent and Bryce thought she might not answer, but then she said I had a tattoo on my. Back recently, a magical one, now gone, but it was of an 8 pointed star, and that's Brace and the magic, the power of the bargain that caused the tattoo to appear. It chose the design.

1:18:02 The star meant nothing to me. I thought maybe it was related to my training, but its shape was identical to the star on your chest. The magic was with Cassian, by the way. This is why it's on Cassian too. This is why because he's a Lyrian, which are made by the Esteri, and the fighting technique came from.

1:18:19 Sorry. All right. That was a question we had in our Cassian episode. We're solving it in our Illyrian episode. Got it. This is a very late omission. It took months for me to fucking put this all together. Okay, all right, OK, so this is where I get confused about what the Asteri powers are because Vesperis says don't.

1:18:37 Vesperis says don't you see to Azrael, right? Your power is and always will be mine. And Azrael's power is blue killing power, which we have never seen the Asteri use anywhere, right? We we haven't seen that at all. We've really only seen the Asteri use this this Starfire that Thea calls it right the light. Until Bryce starts using this fucking laser power that looks. But that's it.

1:19:04 Yeah, yeah, which is Vespiros's style, yeah, but look also quite a bit like the siphon power. But it's light. It's not one color. Yeah, it's what? Which, when you think about the color spectrum like light, is the amalgamation of all of it. Correct. How many? Yeah, someone left a comment about UV rays. That's one point.

1:19:24 I was like, I'm not totally following, but now I'm starting to get what you're saying. Like, yeah, like you got all your colors of the rainbow in the light. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like, are all of these powers asteri powers, Deanna? It's like, are the silver flames asteri powers? Is the white light Isn't a steri power? Is the blue?

1:19:42 And I know you don't think that Deanna's in a steri, but like, whatever. Let's pretend she is for a second. Like this is all a steri power or, or what? I don't know. Like it's, it's that's where I'm getting a little like, what's happening here? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, let's just make the universe like a little bit smaller for a second though in the Illyrian episode, right?

1:20:02 In this Illyrian world. My question is, is because the Illyrian techniques to this day. Are a steri rooted they fight in an 8 pointed star manner. Their siphon power looks quite a bit like Vesperis power but it has a specific color of light and when she tells Azrael like make the tithe and your power is my power. Like was this actually just a cyclical power between them and best breaths And their power however they maintain it is still just a steri power.

1:20:38 I think it. I think it probably is. And that's OK. I mean, I mean, we're literally told your power is and always will be mine. But her power is also the Evening Star. Well, and the Illyrians are only in the Night Court. They're only in the Night Court, yeah. And let's be clear, they didn't migrate from anywhere.

1:20:53 Merman Dons is a word that was a steri fan fiction. You think the the Mermodons are the Illyrian mountains? No, no, I think. I think the asteri made-up the migration from the mermodons. As their origin story. Yeah, correct. There are no mermodons. Correct. I think the asteri were like you guys migrate to from the mermodons and I think they made an alias. I mean, I don't think they're called Illyrians and they they live in Illyrians.

1:21:20 And they're like then best verses like I made Analius who like was in Illyria. So of course they didn't migrate from anywhere. What do you mean? Yeah. OK, Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. All right, we actually do have one more question, whether or not you can't believe it. One more which we should probably start talking about.

1:21:38 This has been great. All right, Ronnie, what is the blood? Right. And how is magic just? Gone during. All right, guys, buckle up. The blood rate is an Illyrian ritual in which an Illyrian goes from a warrior in training to a full warrior and adult. So we learn about mitzvah. It's like a bar mitzvah, There's tons of bloodshed.

1:22:00 Do not recommend to a friend. So we learn about the blood, right? Actually, a few times throughout the course of the series. I'm going to, I'm going to choose the passage from A Court of Silver Flames. But we get tidbits here and there. Chapter 16 in A Court of Silver Flames, Nest asks what is the blood right, what it sounds like?

1:22:16 Cassian says when an Illyrian warrior comes into his full power, usually in his 20s, notably only men, he has to go through the blood right before he can qualify as a full warrior and adult wouldn't be. Warriors from every clan and village get sent in, usually 3 or 4 from each, all of them scattered across an area in the Illyrian mountains.

1:22:35 We're left there for a week with two goals, survival and making it to Romiel. What's Romiel? She asks. Our sacred mountain. He drew a familiar symbol in the dirt and upward pointing triangle with three dots above it. A mountain, she realized, and three stars. It's the symbol of the Night Court. The Blood Right always takes place when Arctos, Corinth, and Aristides are three holy stars shine above it for one week a year. On the final day of the right, they are directly above its peak.

1:23:03 So you hike to the mountain. We kill our way to the mountain. His eyes turned hard. We're drugged and dumped into the wilderness with nothing but our clothes. And you have to participate. Once you're in, you can't leave, at least until the right is over or you reach the peak of Ramiel. If anyone breaks into the right to extract or save you, the law declares that both of you will be haunted down and killed for the transgression. Even Reese is an exempt from those laws. Nesta Shipward.

1:23:26 It sounds barbaric. I agree. That's not the half of it. A spell is in place, so our wings are rendered useless and no magic may be used. Can I just say that if I were Nesta, I would have asked more questions before this line? Because what do you mean we hike up a mountain? But you haven't told me that our wings are bound yet. Like you're Illyrian.

1:23:45 Yeah. Anyways. He held up a hand. You have fucking wings. Right. He held up a hand, displaying the red siphon on his back. Magic is rare amongst Illyrians, but when it does manifest, it requires siphons to be controlled, filtered into something usable. But it gives us an advantage over the other Illyrians without it, so this spell levels the playing field.

1:24:07 Illyrians do possess magic on one night a year, though. The night before the blood, right When the war band leaders can winnow the drug novices into the Wilds. Don't even ask me why that is. No one knows. I'm going to skip a little because they're talking about Azrael being as real. Listen to our as real episode for that. That's a plug.

1:24:25 So without the use of magic in the right you kill each other the normal way. Swords and daggers weapons are banned too, at least the ones that that are brought in from the outside. But you can build your own. You need to build your own, or else you'll be slaughtered by the other warriors. Yes. Rival clans, enemies, assholes seeking notoriety, all of it.

1:24:42 And some villages. The higher the kill count, more glory bring the most backwards. Clans claim the slaughter is to thin out the weaker warriors, but I always thought it was a grand waste of any potential talent. Cassian dragged a hand through his hair. And then there are the creatures that run the mountains, ones that can easily bring down the Lyrian warrior with claws and fangs. Murky memory surfaced of Fair telling her about the horrible species she'd encountered.

1:25:04 The mountain. So you're facing all of that while trying to make your way to Romeo Slopes. The majority of males forget to save enough strength for the end of the week to make the climb. It's a full day and night of brutal climbing where one fall can kill you. Most don't even make it to the base of the mountain, but if they do, the opponent changes. You're not facing other warriors, you're pitting yourself, your very soul, against the mountain. It's usually that that breaks anyone who tries to scale it. And what, you make it to the top and get a trophy? I love Nesta.

1:25:32 We're almost done guys, I swear. Cassie and snorted, but his words were serious. This is all important. I know, but you said that because I yawned, because we've been podcasting for five hours, not because this is far. You make it to the top and get a trophy. There's a sacred stone atop it. Touch the stone 1st and you win.

1:25:52 It will transport you out immediately and everyone else. When the week is done, whoever is left standing is considered a warrior. Where you are when it ends sorts you into one of the three echelons of warrior named after our holy stars. Arctosian, the ones who don't make it to the mountain but survive, Aristian, the ones who make it to the mountain but don't reach the top, and Corinthian, the ones who scale the summit and are considered elite warriors. Touching the stone atop raw meal is to win the right. Only a dozen warriors in the past five centuries have reached the mountain.

1:26:23 You touch the stone, I take it Reese as and I touched together whatever Cassie and Reece and Asriel have won the right, of course. So that's the right, right. Like there is mysteriously, for some reason special magic that the Illyrians have the night before the right and that is so that they can winnow the participants of the right to the proper locations. And then there is a ban on magic on the mountain and around the mountain during the right that stops all of the Illyrians from using their magic.

1:26:54 But importantly, we also learned that it's not actually just the Illyrians, It's all magic, right? Because it also ends up applying to Nesta when she is in the right. And we'll talk more about that. And then the blood right itself is basically just a survival game. You have your wings around, you don't have access to anything, you don't have access to weapons, and you just need to survive and not get killed and kill others if you want to or if you have to and get as close to the top of the mountain as you possibly can.

1:27:21 I don't personally understand why more people don't just like try to survive in like a corner somewhere because that's what I would do. Because they've got these raging male testosterone instincts to kill everything Insight. Because they've been fucking made by the Astari. Yeah, yeah, true. OK, so that's the right, but that's not what it is. There is a blood right qualifier, which is also interesting, which we learn about because Azrael effectively tricks Nesta Emery and the priestesses that train with them into taking it.

1:27:54 It's basically an obstacle course that's super hard and I'll paraphrase this Parks, we've read a lot, but 1/4 of silver flames chapter 60. It's an obstacle course. They say it's impossible. They're like these guys are changing every night. This is terrible. It's basically footwork, mental testing, like puzzles that make them think together and then it ends in feats of strength and as reels like if you finish, you'll get a prize.

1:28:15 And so Gwen and then finish and she's like, what's my prize? And he's like, you just passed the blood, right Qualifier, congratulations. And then they find out that Azrael and Cassian had invited Lord Devlin and another Illyrian warrior to prove to them that these women were also capable of being warriors, which obviously sparked some feelings in them because then they kidnapped them into the blood, right?

1:28:39 Let's talk a little bit more about the magic surrounding the blood, right? Because it seems like no one really understands it or tries to, and everybody just kind of accepts it as, oh, this just happens without really properly acknowledging that there are solar activities occurring. And they're just like, oh, yeah, there's no magic except for this one time. So what we know about the magic as far as being winnowed in our first hand experience of this is Nesta, right? So she wakes up, and when Cassian kind of inspects the area where they were taken from, we find out that it's not like the participants experience any magic. They're just drugged, so they just get drugs and taken in. So there's no magic related to

1:29:22 that. It's just the winnowing. Nesta wakes up first. She thinks it's because she's made, at first a quarter. Silver Flames Chapter 64. She must have awoken before the others because she was made different. Nesta reach inward toward that place where the ancient, awful power rested but found nothing, as if the well had been drained, as if the sea had receded.

1:29:40 Blood, right? Spells bound magic. Her powers have been rendered useless. So this magic that is impacting everybody in the blood, right? Every Illyrian. It's not just impacting Illyrian powers, it's impacting her powers as well. So there's no magic available to anybody. But she's thinking, I woke up because I'm made, which is interesting. Like, why would being made allow you to wake up earlier if your magic is null?

1:30:05 Yeah, I think that's interesting. Later, she ruminates that maybe it's because she and Gwen are not Illyrian. Right. So later in the right when says I woke up before the others and NASA says so did I, I thought it's because I was made, but maybe it's because you and I aren't a Lyrian. I actually think that this might be because Gwen is actually Helian's granddaughter. Exactly.

1:30:24 That's right beside the point. Is, I don't know that it is. I think we should explain that a little bit. So if this is your first episode with us. Yes, we have talked about the potential for Gwen. So Gwen's parentage, she's she was born of a great right. Her mother did it with an Autumn Port male who participated in a great right. We think that could be Lucian, which would make her the son of of daughter, and therefore the grandson of Helium, Daughter, daughter and the daughter of Lucian, and therefore the granddaughter of Helium.

1:30:58 And if she's the granddaughter of Helium, we think that Helium has some potential. A stereotyze. He's also a member of a solar court. He randomly has the Pegasuses, the Pegaside. He has light. He has light, I mean. He has light. Yeah, he glows and he's got stuff that was supposed to be at the prison in Thea's court and.

1:31:18 Yeah, and the mask breaks. It's cold claws down his senses anyway. So it could be that they're not Illyrian, or it could be that they're both paid. And if that means having a steri power, I do think that's relevant to this conversation, which it does, by the way. Yeah. Yes, yes, but Nesta's power is gone, so whatever power she actually wields seems to be gone. But whatever the madness about her is or the fact that she's not Illyrian, we don't really know what it is. She woke up early.

1:31:47 Don't know why that was. I mean, I will say like it is possible that cachet is back there pulling strings this whole time. Like we don't know, right? That's always a possibility because he he is doing that for most of this, right? Healing power is also suppressed in this, right, right. So they should have healed by now, but the magic that bound the right also suppressed any healing magic with a within a fairy's blood, apparently including her own. So this raises the stakes for everything, right? Anytime you get hurt, a wound could be fatal. They are healing at human pace and they are used to healing at fairy pace.

1:32:17 So that's different. But their bracelets work. The mother's power works within the right. Maybe the mother woke them up. And that quote is? She glanced back, making sure no one was gaining on her. This is all in the same chapter, by the way. That's why I'm not saying numbers. And as she did, she caught a flash of light from the woven bracelet on her left wrist, from the little silver charm in the middle, glinting in the light. No, it was glowing.

1:32:43 Esta brushed A fingertip over the charm. It buzzed against her skin. Dreads Lewis through her, a pricking at her nape. As if a soft voice whispered hurry. Nesta twisted to see it, but to better see it against the sun. But the light within the charm vanished. Nesta pivoted northward. The charm shone again. She'd made the charms into beacons, and whichever of her friends lay to the South wasn't in nearly as much danger as as the one to the north.

1:33:08 But how could the charms work here? The right band magic, both from a wielder and from any objects, unless the power surrounding the right didn't stifle made items. Face spells had to be carefully worded. Perhaps whoever had woven this spell for the Illyrians had never considered the possibility of a made item winding up in the right. Her own power lay dormant, though she strained inward, reaching for it, but only emptiness met her. Her throat tightened.

1:33:35 She was herself a made thing, and yet she was a person to the magic recognized her as a person and not a thing. So we're getting like maybe a little bit overly spoon fed here. Like I woke up because I was made. Wait a second, they're recognizing me as a made person. So my power is not working, but made things maybe work. Regardless, the charms are clearly working. Like here are the facts.

1:33:58 The charms on the bracelet The charms on the bracelets are working. Nesta's powers are not working. Illyrians powers are not working. Their healing powers are not working. The charms on their bracelets seem to be powered by the mother. Nesta has made the charms as. Well, I think we get absolute confirmation that bait items work because the crown works when Cassian shows up during the right right? So I think the idea of the charms being made and therefore working because they are made and a made object does work regardless of whether or not this is the mother. So the idea of made objects working but made people's power not working I find sloppy.

1:34:41 I'm going to say it right now. I. Think that if made people's if made people's power works, then Illyrian would work. I suppose that's true, Yeah. So. So the trove works. The trove works. The bracelet, the Elyrian power doesn't work. Is basically what we're getting to, right? Yeah. So the trove works, The bracelets work.

1:35:00 I still think the knife flew into her hand. Right. I forgot about that. I. Will I have that passage? And I read it again and I still think it did. This is a plug for Eris episode. The knife in this right that Nesta claims suddenly just appeared in her hand in this warrior's throat. So it could be the made knife.

1:35:22 But anyways, the blood, the blood right rules can be broken. It seems that they can be broken by made objects. That seems to be the power that is the exception. Second, Briellen or someone on behalf of Briellen dumped weapons into the blood right and it was fine and no one corrected it or interfered or anything. So like OK, I guess that that rule was allowed to be broken too in the blood right?

1:35:46 As well. It is mentioned that the beasts in the Illyrian forest seem to you mentioned this when we were talking about Balthazar be conditioned to hunt down Illyrians specifically in this blood right And that is 1/4 silver flames. Chapter 68. Emory basically says how did how did these not eat you?

1:36:03 They were pulling Illyrians off the branches like apples. Gwynn says I don't smell like an Illyrian, despite me wearing their clothes right now. She nodded to Nesta. You don't either. If we're lucky, our sense will mask Emery's. So are the beasts specifically looking for Illyrians in this blood right?

1:36:18 If so, that's pretty interesting, because then the blood right is like, very much was created for Illyrians. It's a. Culling like it's, it's a culling like for whatever reason, yeah. So the blood right? Is this annual required ritual required ritual? You cannot not be an Illyrian warrior warrior without doing this.

1:36:41 And it's Cassian calls it a waste of life, right? Even Cassian calls it a waste. It is a big magicless trial in which the whole goal is to reach a very fucking magical obelisk on a mountain that seems to literally vibrate with magic. Ramiel is alive, whispering, murmuring Sacred mountain, heart of Illyria. This is not a novel theory by any means, but we have pretty good reason, right to believe that there is a pot like a pocket of power under Ramiel.

1:37:08 There's one other the prison. That's where it literally says like again the 5th time we're reading this on the podcast. We hid pockets of our power throughout the lands. Have you looked beneath every sacred mountain at their very roots? The magic draws all sorts of creatures. So again, this is probably obvious to everybody listening to this at this point, but I think the blood right is an annual recharging like in addition to this first light core that lives under Ramiel, I think it is basically a massive tithe that was configured by the Astiri and has become tradition. It was configured in a way that lasted effectively. And the reason that I think this like the a big beacon and you mentioned this already in this

1:37:49 episode is that on the last day, on the last day, Nix is born right on the last day. This very fucking Asteri kid is moving into this world too early, like early called into this world. And if you accept that like calls to like and this huge amount of Asteri power is deposited into Romul and suddenly Nyx is pulled into the world, then I think this is a recharging of an Asteri battery.

1:38:16 I think it is. I went through this exact thought because OK, so so we are assuming I think that the blood right was created by the Asteri for some reason. Yeah. Which really doesn't make a lot of sense. If these are your foot soldiers, this is your army, why would you create? Yes, training is fine, but why would you create create a training that seems specifically designed to cut your numbers, right? Like to like like a lot of people die in the blood, right? Why would you want that if this is your your army selection, selection is a possibility.

1:38:51 Well, my thinking was, so this is a right, it is a ritual. The Esteri have created another ritual. That's complete bullshit, right? And it's the drop. And the reason for the drop is to harvest the power that is generated when the fae or whatever the Vanier go through the drop, right? So is the blood right?

1:39:11 Somehow also that idea that it harvests the power, like if you touch the obelisk in the same way that the crystal gates in in Lunatheon will take a bit of your power, does the obelisk take a bit of your power? I went through that and then I was like, but only 12 people in 500 years have touched it.

1:39:32 So like, is it, is it too hard? Is the test too hard? Like, did they fuck it up or like, did it not used to be as hard? Like, it seems like if I were to design A contest where the goal was to get someone to touch this obelisk so I could harvest some of their power, I would not make it so challenging, you know what I mean?

1:39:53 Well, I think so. Maybe we're saying different things here. I do not think that the harvesting is the touching of the obelisk. I think the harvesting is the death. Interesting. It's the second light. Oh, tell me more. Yeah, I think it's the death. So I think there could be a couple things going on here.

1:40:08 I my thought process was that the blood, right, the culling part was the collection of power. So Illyrians have implicit power to them, and when they die, their power dies on Romeo and goes to Romeo. And Ramiel just absorbs the power, right? That's really intriguing. Yeah. Because I mean, yeah, Ramiel is. And we will talk about Ramiel in our Places episode. Don't worry.

1:40:33 I'm so excited to talk about Ramiel. But yes, raw meal does seem to be. Alive. Yeah, I think there's a possibility that something else happens when you touch the obelisk, because everybody who touches the obelisk is obviously quite powerful. But yeah, that we'll talk about later. Yeah, that Will.

1:40:50 I agree that we'll talk about. That's why I was next to you being like I can't answer this question. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I finished it, but we'll talk about it later. But yeah. So I think the culling, I think that's the waste. I think the waste is like we're going to call that is the sacrifice is the power of the Illyrians that die.

1:41:09 I also think there could be something here that's like the magic list. Part of it is also like. Like a donation somehow, but I can't really work out how they possibly work. Here's my thinking kind of off the cuff. I had a lot of notes for this one, but no like concrete idea. The Asteri the trove works right? We're told the trove works basically without being explicitly told the trove work for shown that the trove works is supplied that the trove works but the Illyrian magic does not work.

1:41:36 Was this just basically an Asteri hunting party? Basically like we're going to like we're playing a most dangerous game situation here with the and we're just going to go after them for fun, for sport. Like I don't know because the Asteria are like giving themselves an advantage here. But if that's the case, like, why wouldn't Reese's magic work? Well, no, the Asteria magic doesn't work. We know the Asteria magic doesn't work, but like, the Trove works if the Osteria had the Trove, Yeah. Yeah.

1:42:03 I don't know. Maybe I'm a little stumped on this one, honestly. I mean, it also could be a way, it could have just been a way to control the population, right? And not let them get too numerous because the Osteria were worried that they were going to rebel. And they did rebel, right? Yeah, yeah, it could be population. Control.

1:42:20 I mean, Reese, even Reese even mentions that in Frost and Starlight that like there was a particularly rebellious, I forget someone from one of the camps was like particularly rebellious and then he died in the blood, right? And like it went away. Basically, yeah, yeah, yeah, that happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:42:35 Maybe, maybe it's just population control. I still think it has to do something with something. I still think it has to do with Ramiel. What's in Ramiel. It has to you're right, You're you're totally right. It has to have something to do with Ramiel. I completely something about what happens in that blood, right?

1:42:53 Whether it's who makes it to the top or who dies. I feel like it has to be I feel like it's more likely to be who dies because of how rarely people make it to the top. To your point, has to contribute in some way. And maybe we just don't know enough. Maybe there's some way that Ramiel Ramiel can harvest second light that we don't understand. Or maybe it did.

1:43:12 Maybe they they did and now they're just not there to do it anymore. I don't know. OK, I have one more idea about this but it's going to be my precog and maybe it will trigger something for you, I don't know. But I have some more ideas on why it has to be Romeo. OK, OK. And the other thing, like the other piece, like Nix was born on the last day.

1:43:31 So like something happens on that last day. Yeah. Yeah, something about Gwen and Emery. Emery touch the obelisk. Nix is born. They are transported to the lawn of the River House, which is where Bryce is transported to when she comes to Prythian. Like and what's is it a thin place or is it Reese is like Reese tethering this somehow?

1:43:56 I don't know because like what is important about the river house? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, Bryce says that it's Misty when she's, like, thinking through it. Yeah. But yeah, she could just be rationalizing. Yeah. That's a little out there. We don't have enough for that, but they like, yes, Gwen and Emery are undoubtedly transported to basically the same place that Bryce is transported to when she gets to Prithean. Yeah, cool, cool.

1:44:20 All right, pre come. A corner, OK, mine is not too complex. It is based on one quote for going back to the carvings in the tunnels under the prison in House of Flame and Shadow, or in the tunnels. They're looking at the carvings. Scenes of a blessed land, a thriving civilization. One relief had been so similar to the freeze of the female forging the sword at the Crescent at the Crescent City Ballet, but Bryce had nearly gassed. The last carving before the river had been one of transition of Faye, King and Queen, seated on Thrones a mountain different from the one with the palace atop it behind them, with three stars rising above it.

1:44:56 A different Kingdom then some ancient High Lord and Lady Nesta had suggested before approaching the river. She hadn't commented on the lower half of the carving, which depicted a hellscape. 1L Beneath their Thrones, some kind of underworld humanoid figures writhed in pain amid what looked like icicles and snapping scaly beasts.

1:45:15 Either past enemies conquered or an indication of what failure to bow to the rulers would bring upon the Defiant. My theory this is based off of this passage alone is that the Esteri, the Daglin modeled Prythian after their homeworld, modeled the Night Court after their homeworld. Specifically this image and the Court of Dreams and the Court of Nightmares shows A world of heaven and hell, basically, right? Shows a world divided, shows a world of like a fake king and queen that sit in a nice land, a thriving civilization. And then it shows a hellscape, which is the heathen city, which is the Court of Nightmares.

1:45:52 Yeah, it is giving hell. And so we have all of this is staring imagery, all of this like heavenly imagery, these stars, all of this, these dreams, all of this goodness up top in Velaris. And then we have the Hewn City, which is giving, which is giving hell. And so did the Asteri come to the Night Court and say, OK, our own world didn't work out. Let's make this our home world.

1:46:18 And that's why we're all so confused as to why it seems like it could be their world. Because they they tried to make it their world. They tried to model it exactly after it. I need to look at my ASTERI timeline. Which were also kind of poetic with the fact that the Star Sword and Truth Teller are both there now. I have two thoughts about what you just said. So the first to respond to what you said, it's interesting because the city that Bryce and Hunt go to in Hell is so similar to the Hewn City the way it's described. However, based on what you just said, the Asteri have also been to hell, right?

1:46:50 And they also conquered Hell and Hell kicked them out. We know that Hell kicked them out one year after they lost the Fay homeworld, but it does not say when they arrived in hell. We don't know how long they were in hell for. So it could be what you're saying that it's it feels like hell because the Esteri were in both places, right?

1:47:08 Basically, can you read the first sentence of that quote again? One relief had been so similar to the freeze of the female forging the sword at the Crescent City Ballet that Bryce had nearly gasped. OK, I just had this fucking crazy thought. The and forging the sword at the Crescent City Ballet is thur right? Who is a Prince of hell?

1:47:30 He was the original archetype for Hunt, right? Yeah. So, son of Prince of Hell, but. Son of a Prince of hell, is this confirmation, is this confirmation that we have sons of Prince? Is this first of all, is this fian? Is this fian? And is this confirmation that I mean, I think this is Morgan's theory.

1:47:47 Shout out to Morgan, but. Then also like Celine doesn't need to be a child to beat us. No, I mean is the child of Theon and still a child of hell? Yeah, right. Is this confirmation of that? I mean, I kind of think it might be. I'm going off of nothing. Are you reading like is like, did I hear that wrong?

1:48:05 Did I hear you say? The relief looks so much like the man in the Crescent City Ballet, and that man is forging a sword and then also sitting on the throne next to Thea. It's not about the fake king explicitly scenes of a blessed land, a threat. It's about that world. So it says scenes of a blessed land, a thriving civilization.

1:48:23 One relief, not this relief. One relief had been so similar to the freeze of the fae male forging the sword at the Crescent City Ballet that Bryce had nearly gassed. But I think that's still got a beefy on because this is in Prythean. Well, the freeze is Thor is it's, I believe it's. Thor hammering the sword.

1:48:43 OK, so. So this is wild. Yeah, right. Like I think Feon is. Thur let me let me go to the chapter. No, this is important, everyone. This is important. I'm I'm going to validate on both sides unknown sculptor Palmyra circle circle 125 VE just look for Thur THURRI Don't think that freeze is confirmed to be Thurr.

1:49:09 At least I can't see it in the direct quote. So maybe we can research this after. All right, we'll table this, We'll table this, but I will tell you that my brain went to, I believe is Theon and that that is Fur and I will do some research. Probably not today because I need to watch the Super Bowl.

1:49:26 I mean, if like if Theon is from hell, everything makes sense because also that makes sense, right? Even that theory that we just talked about that it's modeled. After the hysteria's homeworld, if the King and the Queen are hysteria, hysteria and hell, the sword and the knife reunited. Social or people be right. I'm going to do some homework and I'm going to figure this out and maybe there will be a social media clip coming this week or maybe there will be another Precock theory soon about this because I'm very, very fucking excited about this possibility. My Precock theory in a similarly really crazy vein, I think the blood right, happens when it happens when Arctos, Karenth, and Aristides are in the sky,

1:50:08 because those are not stars, those are planets, and we are in a very important planetary alignment at this moment. And this is precog. Here's why I think that when we are in the harp chamber, Bryce is looking at the constellations on the floor and she notes that some of them are planets. So the quote we get is the Archer.

1:50:29 She breathes to the scorpion and the fish. This is a map of my cosmos. Her boot knocked against a raised half orb, a screaming face carved into it. Sif, the outermost planet. She went to the next, a similar mound with a grave male face. Orestes. Orestes. Azrael asked sharply, drawing her attention back to where he and Nesta still stood at the tunnel archway. The warrior and then Nesta speculates that maybe the names had a common origin.

1:50:57 What if this is not the Star or Wristy What if this is the planet Orestes and the solar systems are aligned right now for whatever reason, this when the solar systems are aligned, that is when the blood right happens. That is when you try to go touch. I don't know what this Obsidian monolith is, but that is when you try to go touch the Obsidian monolith at the top of Romeo.

1:51:21 It's not about it's something cosmic. It is about, and I don't, I looked, I could not find any information on Arctos or Cairns. Like there is nothing else in the mass versus that ties these together. But we have other worlds, right? We don't know the planets for Aurelia. We have the water world. Like what if it's actually about planetary alignment?

1:51:42 I mean, it's got to be on some level, right? Because it's important that these three stars are in in the sky. But it's something about this, right, Happening when these stars or planets are alight and touching the Obsidian. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but yeah. Yeah, it has to be. This is going to sound obvious, but the right is dictated by those planets being in position or stars being in position, whatever they are.

1:52:09 But if you're saying that they're planets, and I agree with you like that is what determines this magic. Right, right. So it's. So yes, I agree with you. Yes. I don't have more than that. I don't know what it is, but it is something about something about the alignment of the planets with the Obsidian monolith and Romiol and Romiol, right? But it's not like you couldn't have this in the. I don't think you could have the right in the middle of summer and have it be the same thing, right? Like for whatever reason.

1:52:39 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it has to be then. And what would be super interesting too is if there's like some, if there's some like interplanetary activity that can happen like if. There's what I'm saying, that's what, yeah. Yeah, if there's some world walking activity that can happen as a because right with the right person. We also know that way back in Throne of Glass Book 1, I believe on Halloween, I don't think they call it Halloween, but basically on Halloween, I believe Elena first presents herself to Selena, to Alen in dreams, right? And she says, like, this is the night when the veil between our worlds is thinnest, right?

1:53:16 So we kind of have this idea of there are times not only thin places, but thin times too. Yeah, yeah. Well and that's Bruce says Thea had the gift but basically she didn't know how to use it. She might light up entire worlds if she wished if she sees the power to amplify her own. Like how the fuck do you light up multiple worlds at the same time unless you can access multiple worlds at the same time? Nestus power was felt on this day. Nestus power was felt across worlds. On this day.

1:53:47 On this day. On this day, when on this day? And then Knicks came early. So was it them touching the obelisk or was it Nesta? That's something I have to think about. I don't know, yeah. I'm choosing. I think it's, I think it's got to be the blood rate. Well, and here's a kind of, I'm almost loathe to say this theory out loud because I've always kind of wanted to do this project.

1:54:06 But, and I think other people might, I have had a suspicion that if you go through and you look at the like this quote, for example, right where Nesta's power is felt across worlds. I have a feeling if you looked at Crescent City, you would find that lining up with an event like an Archangel arch.

1:54:24 I always get this wrong Archangel being killed or like a moment where time slowed or something like some big event all happening at the same time. I don't know what that would be like it would maybe be Micah dying and the Crescent city timeline. But like you get what I'm saying. Like if you look when time slowed that could be moments where the timelines like line up. Which makes sense because time is across, yes? So ideally it would slow all at once. Yeah, but it definitely says Nesta's power was felt across worlds, and it is on this day, just on the day when these stars line up.

1:55:00 I love this. Fucking love this. This is a fun episode. All right? Anything else? We should just stop now because. I have to look into Dark right now. I have to, I just need to write down the entire like carvings thing in a row. I'm about to reach my copy paste limit for 1/4 silver flames. Did you copy?

1:55:20 Yeah, I'm at 92% of the copy paste limit authorized by the publisher for OH. My God. Because they're worried that we're like, copy. Pasting the entire book. Oh God, good thing we're wrapping up this season. No, but we're going to have. We're not done with the Mass first. Yeah, so that's fun. I didn't know you.

1:55:36 Have to get another Amazon account and buy another copy of course we're playing. OK, all right. What are you reading? I'm reading The Strength of the Fume. You like it? I'm in the back half. I agree with you. It's definitely like I need to make sure I'm following everything. If I lose track of anything, I'm fucked. I don't know what's going on if I lose track of anything. Yeah, I agree with that.

1:55:58 We were, we were messaging about this a little bit, but there are two languages in this book that we are not really supposed to know. And one of them I don't know. Like one of them I actually don't know, but it's a real language. And then one of them I just do know and it is a real language. And so it that is just weird for me. Like it's been weird the entire series so I just know it. Yeah, and I don't know either of these languages, but I recognized enough to know.

1:56:24 I'm like, wait, this is actually a real language? Like there's all this mystery and what's being said, but you can just Google it and it will tell you. And then you're like, well, now I know what this says. Yeah, I think what I'm learning about myself reading these books is that I do unfortunately need some romance plot line because it is, look, it is a compelling plot.

1:56:48 It is a compelling plot. And I don't actually think that it is because it's written by a man that I can easily put it down. I think it's because the character investment is hard to to like, get so deep on when I don't get to know the characters in as personal of a way as you do when they're in love. I think that's totally fair.

1:57:10 I'm not necessarily sure it has to be a romance plot line, but the absolute weak part of these books are the characters and the character development. I am not attached to really any of them. And some of them do start dying and I'm like, OK, like, cool. Like, yeah, I feel like that is definitely what's really missing.

1:57:32 I agree with you. The plot is really cool. The story is really cool. I am reading Babel right now by RF Kwong, which I would actually argue is a better version of the same story. So I do think you should read it, but I too, am struggling. It's the same thing now where I'm like, there's no, the characters are better, but there's no romance. I'm like, I just need, I need something guys. Like, I need something to hold on to here. Like I'm all for complex stories with academia and anti capitalism, anti imperialism, I'm here for it. But give me something to anchor myself to. Like it can't be all allegory all the time. Like, yeah, I do need, I love all of that. I love it all.

1:58:18 But I also need emotional attachment. I need a man on his knees telling me that, not me telling the main character that they can't live without her. Yes, I need that. Yeah. I do. I don't even know whether the main character is attractive. I have no idea. I don't know what he looks like other than in OK in my mind.

1:58:38 Wait, what's this character's name I cast in my mind? Josh Charles. Not Josh Charles. Fuck, what is this guy's name? Josh O'Connor. I don't know who that is. Yes you do. He's such a cutie patootie. I don't think that's the correct casting. I think that Viz is supposed to be much more Mediterranean looking.

1:58:57 Yeah, I think he's darker skinned. Yeah. But I agree, I do think he's a cutie patootie and I do recognize this man. Yeah, but like, you know what happened? I what happened was I watched Knives Out. I watched the latest Knives Out movie, and I loved Josh O'Connor in that movie. And then I started reading this book. So my brain was just like, these are the same. These are the same.

1:59:16 Character so I could see you know what everyone who's like all like obsessed with this man for Zayden, I just don't see it. I could see Josh Houston for. I could for Viz. Yeah, I could too. Yeah. I can't see him for Zayden. I really hope he's not Zayden. Sorry, Josh. I'm sure you're a great actor, but it's not. Yeah, but this character, I could see him before. Yeah, I could see it working.

1:59:41 Yeah, I agree because. For some reason in my line Suez is like a Mediterranean Isle. I don't know. We can't ever care. We can't ever cover this book because I have no idea how to say any of the words I know, but in my mind it's SUS. It's just SUS. That's what it's called anyway. You can find us on social media.

2:00:03 We are drags in the Details pod on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, facebook.pinterestwhereverwearedragsinthedetailspod@gmail.com. You can e-mail us. We are drags in the details pod server on Discord. Just to shout it out once again. Our Discord is currently doing a mass first reread in publication order.

2:00:24 It's really awesome. They've got some really awesome theories cooking. I've kind of actually stopped looking because now I don't want to take any of their ideas, but I trust you guys. I think it's all going really great. And they do virtual, they're doing virtual meetups I believe once a month. So it's kind of like a nice little virtual book club.

2:00:38 A lot of you guys DM me and are like oh like like I don't have anyone to talk about these books about like I don't have a book club. Join our discord babes. Join our discord. This is the place for you. Trust me there I am but one person. Our discord can gab forever. It is going constantly. It's great. We are Dragons in the details pod.com Dragons in thedetails.com.

2:00:59 I don't know you know where to find us. Love you dragon. Details.com Dragon. Whoever going to get our website right? Well, the problem is some things are pod and some things aren't. We're dragging to thedetails.com. You can reach us there too. We're going to go watch Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl. Can't fucking wait.

2:01:16 So excited. Yeah, we're going to tune in before that. That's the question. I don't care. Well, I'm actually going to Super Bowl party and the Patriots are in the Super Bowl and Derek's Patriots fan, so I have to pretend to care. But I'm really here for Bad Bunny. And I'm actually kind of sad that we're going to a Super Bowl party because I want to just sing Bad Bunny at the top of my lungs and dance on my couch and just like, have a good time.

2:01:37 And obviously I can't do that in company. Because you like, you know, Spanish, Yeah. I know enough. OK, so here's my Bad Bunny story. I used to work in restaurant. I took many years of high school Spanish and college Spanish and then I started working in restaurants and I had to remember all of it really fucking quickly.

2:01:54 So all I would do I whenever I drove to work, I was just listening to the Bad Bunny on repeat, like over and over and over all his albums. Like he was literally my #1 streamed artist that year. So obviously I grew to love him and I love all his music. I don't understand all of it, not even close. But like, I love it.

2:02:10 It's so good. So Benito, love you. So excited for your Super Bowl performance. I can't wait. So excited. That is one thing for my 7 years of Latin. I don't know any fucking languages. Don't do shit. Can't speak any of them, can't pronounce anything except for Latin. King I was taking French classes before I switched before I went to culinary school, I was taking French classes, which I was really enjoying I would really love to do more language stuff like if I had more time if. We I feel like you have an ask for it. I love it.

2:02:37 That's part of why I really like Babel. You should read Babel, but I really love Does it require languages? You could. Be good at languages. No, but it's about, it's about the study of languages basically. And it's about translation and it's about the unreliability of translation. It's a really similar book to The Will of the Money, actually. Like in many, many ways.

2:02:57 I need to. I need to put a romance somewhere. Yeah, so I started this morning. I was like I have to read a romantic see or I'm going to die. Like I literally was feeling that way. So I started Spark of the ever flame. I downloaded it on my Kindle. I was just like I need to do this right now. I'm liking it a lot, but I'm only like 5 chapters and we'll see. Yeah.

2:03:16 All right, now that I've tried to end this episode like 10 times. We love you guys. Next week is our season wrap up. We will talk to you then. Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye.