Sarah J. Maas on Call Her Daddy: Reaction Episode

0:00 Do we think this is an accoter only book? No, no, no shot. And help guys. Read the math first, OK? That's it, she said. She said you've had enough time. That was your warning. You have had plenty of time. I think the most surprising, well, I don't know, there were obviously a lot of surprising things, but the least expected thing was the Legolas obsession all of her male main characters give Aragorn.

0:43 So. Aragorn Lego loss is blonde. Baby, look, I get it. I had the Orlando Bloom poster. I've gone on record Legolas was my first crush. But then you grow up, and then Aragorn is your second crush, of course. Yeah, which is also Phyra's journey. I have not Look, didn't seem to be Sarah's. Sarah seems like a like a lost girly all the way. Whatever her journey is has gotten us to this. Point So it's OK No.

1:10 And I love it and I respect it's OK. I love it about her. It's just it was unexpected. I didn't it was. Unexpected. I just have to tell you, I'm recording this at my parents apartment. My father has picked up some new hardware and it's staring at me on his desk. I must show you this. OK, this is who's joining us for today's recording. Oh dear, the episodes for this to be staring at. Me dear.

1:39 So we're going to turn him around and he's going to join the team. To see this, I don't think he needs to hear it or their ear. He needs to hear it. Yeah, let's just put little, big little earbuds for you. Imagine have you had little earmuffs for Jesus? Yeah. So he's not turned away, which is good because I think this could be a turn into a pretty rated R discussion. For everybody who's listening and not watching, there is a small Jesus statuette.

2:06 This thing is the size of my head. This is not small, this is enormous. It's rather large, relatively large. It's hardly life-size, though. Sarah J Masks could not make out with it. No, no, no. No, let's just get right into it, shall we? I'm Ronnie, I'm Abby, and this is Dragons in the Details, the podcast that helps you better understand your favorite fantasy books through a series of deep dive episodes.

2:32 We are currently in between our A guitar and Crescent City Seasons and we are supposed to be. And what a time to be in between what? A time to be in between guys. This was obviously not planned. Sarah did not let us into her plans, but they worked out so beautifully for us. Thank you, Sarah. From the bottom, thank. You, Sarah, if you're a secret listener, I mean, you might as well be, honestly.

2:57 For how things worked out, we're in the midst of some bonus episodes post a guitar season. Then we're going on our little our little break to reread Crescent City. But Sarah J Masks decided to break the Internet by announcing not one, but two. Really three. But she formally announced 2 new Agatar installments.

3:17 You all wanted a reaction episode. We kind of said we were going to do 1 before we even knew this was a thing. We. Wanted to give you a reaction. We can't shut up. So here we are. We knew there was a good chance that we would be here. Here we are. We are doing it. Disclaimer this episode will contain a Qatar spoilers for the first part, mass for spoilers for the second part. We're going to do our usual.

3:41 We're going to act our only spoilers and then we're going to do mass for spoilers. So for anybody who did not listen to the Sarah J Maas call her Daddy interview who has not read everything, you can listen to the the ACOTAR only section of this podcast because we will hold off on mass versus spoilers and then we'll do mass versus spoilers.

4:00 Second. Also disclaimer, as Abby just mentioned, this podcast is rated R and it's like definitely going to be a rated R1. Like it's definitely like, oh, maybe it won't be. Maybe it'll just be curse words. No, it'll definitely we're going to it's going to be rated R. So don't listen to it with your children without an accompanying parent or guardian. Abby Announcements?

4:21 Do you have any announcements? Crescent City season 3. Crescent City Season 3 is coming. It's coming I. Think this is an official announcement, but we did get this question on our Discord. OK, so now that Sarah J Mass and if you didn't listen to the episode, the big news is Sarah J Mass is dropping Akatar 6 on October 27th, 2026, which our discord did break so fuck yeah guys. Great fucking job.

4:45 I'm so proud of all of you. Great job. Especially Swizzy using Guitar 7, which I don't love that they're calling a guitar 7, but we'll get into that later. It's going to be released on January 12th, 2027. And we do not have a release date for Aqatar 8. But the way this is working is that Aqatar 6 is going to be Part 1 of a news story. Aqatar 7 is going to be Part 2 and 3, and Aqatar 8 is going to be part 4.

5:13 And those four parts will be a complete story. But she was, I thought maybe she wasn't totally clear, but my understanding is that we're not getting a, a nicely arced story for, for any of these, right? So like the whole thing will be a finished arc, but we're getting parts one, parts two and three, and then part 4. So I don't know if I read it as we're going to get like a broken story.

5:35 I read it as we're getting like a basically another little series effectively. Yeah, I don't know what she's going to do. I don't know if it's going to be like the way we had Wicked Part 1 and Wicked Part 2 where like they were maybe Wicked's a bad example, but like, you know, it was like I. Don't know about that comparison all. Right, let me let me take you back a couple years. Fast and Furious 10 Part 1.

5:58 Not a complete story. OK, We're still waiting for Part 2. I. Don't like that you just put that comparison into the universe? No, but this is what I'm saying. I don't know if she's doing like what all the like studios have been doing with their big temple movies where they split it up and Part 1 like doesn't really end and it just kind of stops.

6:15 Or if it's going to be more wrapped up, either 1 is fine with me because we're getting Part 2 so quickly. So the announcement part of this, you guys have been like are you going to cover Acatar 6, 6 when it comes out because that's not a lot of time between Akhtar 6 and Akhtar 7 or are you just going to wait till Akhtar 7 to talk about both of them?

6:32 We literally could not not cover this guys. There is no way that we are not going to cover this. Could actually sit with our mouths shut or talk about something else during that time. Are you crazy? Guys, that's OK. So I don't know how it's going to work. We haven't got down and scheduled every single weekend or anything, but basically we're going to start, we're going to start our Crescent City season.

6:58 We are going to roll right into Akutar 6 and we are going to go right into Akutar 7. All right, So get ready because it's going to be a lot of Masters content from us for the whole year. Tough time to not be a Sarah Day mask. Fan Tough time to not be a Sarah Day Mask fan in period. Listeners, we have not forgotten about you. We'll see what Rebecca's doing.

7:18 If Rebecca also decides to drop a book in the middle of all this, Ronnie and I will simply stop sleeping. I don't fucking know. We'll figure it out. We will find a way. We will find a way, but that is the high level plan. At this point in time, I don't really have any other announcements other than we're going to be your mass first friends throughout all of this.

7:36 We're going to be here, don't worry. We're here, we are here. Cool. OK all right, we are doing normal format guys. Question, question format. So we have an outline. We've got all the usual shit we'd said this in the interim, this is a reaction episode to Sarah J Mass's episode on Call Her daddy. So I feel like we should maybe just relive how this all came about because last time we were on here, which was, which was not that long ago for you guys, but it was kind of a while ago for us the.

8:04 Episode that we released today, yeah. The episode that we released today, we were like, we've heard that Sarah J Masks might go on call her daddy. That would be kind of wild. That would be kind of fun. OK, like, we'll listen. Then Over the last week and 1/2, it went from maybe she'll go on to oh, shit, Alex is teasing a guest. That's definitely an author.

8:26 Oh, shit, it's Sarah J Masks. Oh, shit. It's called the wait is over. Oh, she's announcing a book. Oh, it's 2. Oh, it's 3. Wild wild. And then we ended up live tweeting at our discord the entire time, which was also wild and fun. So fun shout out to you guys. That was that was like the most fun I've ever had.

8:46 We will do any author interviews like that in the future. I think we're just going to go with a live tweet. So if you want to join our discord, you should definitely join our discord because that was a hell of a time. Yeah, I think it was especially doable because it was a podcast that you could just replay to like, I don't know if I would have felt that way if it was like a live interview or like something where you were just able to watch it once.

9:07 Would have been way harder because I definitely was a little bit distracted while all of that was going on. But then I was like, I could just listen to it five more times. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Exactly. So fun anyways. OK, so that's why we're here. How did you feel about this interview? I thought this was if Sarah had not said a word about ACOTAR 6, if Sarah had not given us a release date, if Sarah had just said I'm still working on it.

9:30 I still think this would have been an incredible interview. I thought. I thought this was like such a real interview, such a raw interview, such an open and honest interview about what it is to be a woman and the hell that can be. And I thought, I've, I've watched it or listened to it three Times Now.

9:49 I've cried every time. Even though I know what's coming, I just start tearing up. I thought Alex did an incredible job. I thought Sarah did an incredible job. Like just getting all that insight. And it's so funny, right? Because when you're a reader, when you're a fan of his, of hers, what we've always said on this podcast is that what her strength really is, is her characters, right?

10:08 That is really why you keep coming back to these stories again and again, because these characters feel so real. They feel so lived in. You sympathize with them. You feel like you see them. And then to hear that that's how she writes them, right? Like she feels everything she's feeling everything that her characters are feeling when she writes, you know, if they're going through an emotional time, she's like sobbing, like. And to hear how much of her experience she has just poured into these books just gives you.

10:34 It gave me such a like, stronger appreciation for them. And and you feel like you know her, right, because you know her characters and you know what they went through. And then she's saying like, yeah, well, that was me. Like that came from me. And it just, I felt like, really emotional and like raw, honestly, since it aired, I'm like, I thought it was fantastic.

10:52 I thought it was really good. What did you think? Yeah. I thought it was awesome. I mean, I, I loved a few. I loved a few things. I loved that I learned so much more about Sarah J Maas than I ever thought that I would. And Oh my God, I love her. Like I don't know whether maybe I've just not been paying as much attention or like on the interview scene as much as I should have with her previously, but I feel like this interview was much more about her than other ones that I have listened to previously. Like other interviews have been much more geared towards her books and what she's written, and this one felt much more about her.

11:28 I laughed, I cried. Like I think she's incredible. She's so bold, she's a risk taker, she's confident. Like she came across both very vulnerable and very strong, which I thought was awesome. And like she, she tells a story of being like kind of a a rebel writer child who was making some life choices that were viewed as really questionable and was just like, I'm going to fucking crush it.

11:56 And obviously it's like much more powerful because she is on caller daddy and like has obviously fucking crushed it. But like it was it was just a very like powerful and emotional interview. And then she also obviously gave very vulnerable parts of her life to the audience in her pregnancy experiences and like being a mother and all that.

12:14 And there were definitely like moments in the book talk where I was like Alex follow up, but I generally. Thought that. Alex did a nice job, and she's been getting a lot of criticism on social media. Like I think she did a nice job letting Sarah take center stage. Like I took up so little space and everyone was like, oh, she didn't ask good questions. She didn't ask good questions.

12:36 I think that there isn't a skill in interviewing that is like, let the interviewee be the point. And I think Alex did a good a good job of doing that. Like I thought Sarah was the point of the show. I actually even have, I want to call something out that Alex Cooper said here, I'll do it later because it's one of the smartest things I actually think I've ever heard anyone say about women. But I thought Alex Cooper did such a good job. And I've only listened to one other Call her Daddy episode before, so I can't speak to how she normally is. I thought she did such a good job. Exactly what you said, letting Sarah talk, right? Letting Sarah talk, asking Sarah questions about herself, not about her books.

13:16 Like, what is your experience as a woman in this industry? When have you been marginalized? Like what happened to you? And, and we are so much richer for it. We are so much richer for having this information. Like, guys, the books will come out. We'll get the answers about the books, right. OK. We can be patient.

13:33 Like it's OK. It's like not every episode needs to be like, so like what it what happened to Manon? You know, like, what do we mean XYZ? Like she asked those questions. For the most part, we got the non answers that we thought we were going to get, but it's totally fine. We're going to get into that anyway. I'm so much happier that we got this insight into Sarah and who she is rather than an interview spent trying to dodge spoilers. You know, like, I truly like emotionally connected with this in such a way that I so would not have if it was just, hey, tell me, tell me what's going to happen in your next book. Right.

14:06 And I think I think what people wanted was an interviewer who was going to ask questions that frankly, like Sarah J Maas did not want to answer. And as an interviewer, you get a lot more out of letting the interviewee go where they want to go. And I think that's what Alex did so. I mean, these were so clearly conversations that she had had so many times, right?

14:30 Just not, not on a camera, not in front of her mic. These are conversations she had had with her friends, had with her loved ones. And now we get to be part of that. And I think that's I think that's really special. I thought it was great. Yeah, yeah. So I wanted to call out because I love this answer. So Alex asked Sarah, I forget what the exact wording of the question is, but it was basically like, what is your view as a woman in this industry? Like, what do you wish people like knew about your work? Like, how do you feel about the boxes that you've been put into basically, right.

15:03 And Sarah, as predicted, as I totally, completely fucking understand, was like, I'm really sick of my art basically being called smut and everyone just talking about the sex and and that being the focus, like that is part of it. But like, that's not it. I want to say two things about that, right? First of all, Sarah, even if your books were only about the sex scenes, the sex scenes that you give us are so good and like so geared towards women and so empowering. That would be enough in my opinion. That would be enough.

15:31 You do this so well, like nobody doesn't like you. I love it. It's so important and that would be enough. But you also give us this amazing fantasy on top of it. So I'm just like fucking in awe of you. And then what Alex said, I actually like copied and pasted this quote because I thought it was so good. She said, I was going to say this is 1 of this is the commute.

15:51 This is the commonality that we all of us share in this world is we all have sex. We all deserve pleasure. And so if we continue to go down the path path of women shouldn't write about these things or read about these things or talk about these things, then it really is still just a man's game. And that is like that. Is it at the basis of this, right? Like if women are not out here talking about sex, writing about the type of sex that they want to have, having these conversations, then those conversations don't happen, right.

16:17 So like, I totally just want to take a minute to celebrate that Alex said that and that she put that out there. And I think her whole podcast has always been that kind of like this is sex from a women's point of view. But I think it's it's so important. It's so important. And we're having those conversations now. I would never say that what Sarah does is just smart. Obviously, I love what she does.

16:36 But I think even the sex part of what she's doing is so important. And I just wanted to kind of applaud her for that because we don't talk about it as much on this podcast, but it's really important. Yeah. I mean, I think it totally is, and I think even even the fact that the smart element of it is set in such a derogatory manner is also really frustrating because like, like Wolf of Wall Street has been nominated for like 5 Academy Awards. Like you fucking kidding?

17:07 Not that it's not a great. Film. I haven't seen it. I can't speak to it. It is a great. Film. No. No, but I'm more saying there is really good art that is made by men for men right? That has tons of sex and is actually rooted in profanity and like, vulgarity and is nominated for like, entertainment's biggest awards. And the fact that we're frustrated by a categorization that is like sex based in and of itself is annoying to me. So.

17:40 It's all sexist. It's all ridiculous. Yeah, I'm just going to repeat myself, but she the sex that she writes is important, and what she writes is more than that as well. Yeah, sorry Jesus. Sorry Jesus, But yeah, totally agree. Cool. OK, I don't really have anything else. I mean, I have like, yeah, nothing else. That's not honestly reaction oriented. Like I just, I think she's so fun. Like everything I learned about her, I'm like, you are so fun. Even parts of her that are so different from me because she is.

18:10 So she's so different from me. I wish I well, no, I like exactly who I am. But like, like the more I heard her speak, the more I was like Sarah and I like, even though I would love for us to be kindred spirits, like we are not the same. Like I don't know shit about crystals or astrology, but like, I love that you do.

18:26 Like, I love, love that you are fun. The one thing that I did relate to her on is that I am, I don't know if you know this about me. I feel like it would stress you out maybe. But I eat and type all the time. And so my keyboards are chronically covered in grease and it like actually really upsets me.

18:43 But I continue to do it. And so when I heard that Sarah J Maas eats fucking Cheetos and then types, I was like, how do you live with the Cheeto dust keyboards? Holy shit. ANYWAYS, I just loved like, I loved the banter and I loved that so much of that episode was banter. Like, is this how you guys feel when you listen to our banter? I fucking loved it.

19:04 It's. Great, we're never cutting the banter again. I saw this fucking wild thing. I'm not. I don't want to go after anyone. I don't want to go after anyone's beliefs. Believe whatever you want, I'm all good. A woman posted a reel of from this interview of Sarah talking about her crystals on her desk. I'm not a crystal Gurley, but no hate if you're a crystal Gurley. It's all good about Sarah having the crystals on her desk and how she feels like when she's when something comes together really well.

19:34 She's like, Oh, I'm channeling from the crystals. And this woman posted a reel and it said, Christian Acatar fans, how do we feel about this? And then in the caption she wrote, this is actual witchcraft. That was the real. And I'm like, you guys know there's there's literal skull fucking in this series, right?

19:52 Like, are you cool with that? Are you cool with that? The crystals are a bridge too far. Also witches, Yeah. In. The She is a witch. There are witches in the books. No, I mean like obviously like all respect to all religions, I went to Catholic school, completely respect to that. But also if you are reading these books and have issues with crystals sitting on, I have questions.

20:15 I do. I have. Questions. I have questions, but to each their own. It's all good. It's all good. Yeah, OK. Speaking of reach their own. Yeah, I will ask myself, how did we feel about her response to the Tamlin questions? So we're gonna get into both the Tamlin questions and the Reese questions. So everyone who's gonna comment, cuz you guys like to comment while you listen.

20:37 I've learned. I stopped doing that. And then you'll respond to your comments. You got to it so. Actually, I love it. When you do it, it's. Really fun for you guys to do that, but I'm telling you now that we're going to do the Tamlin questions and the Bend the Reese questions. So how do we feel about her response to the Tamlin questions? So just to give a little bit of context, she when asked, you know, would would Tamlin have a redemption arc and like, how would that play out?

21:01 She basically said that she has close friends who link Tamlin to their own abusive relationships, so if pastor abusive relationships. So if she ever wrote a redemption arc, it would have to be in a way that did not erase what he did. And I really liked her answer so I'll start there. I thought it was interesting for a couple of reasons and fair. I thought it was interesting and I don't disagree with this, but I just think it's interesting and I think I'm noting it for other things that she is actually allowing her friends perspectives and outside perspectives to impact what kind of story she is writing for Tamlin. Like I do think that's interesting. It's just something I'm noting.

21:40 Not that I disagree with it or think that she should do anything any specific way. But I do think it's interesting cuz she like she kind of revealed in this interview that she sometimes just lets things happen in these books. So she's actually approaching this one in particular with intention, which I think is interesting.

21:57 And I think it's, it's fair. Like I personally totally agree with it independent of her friends. Like you can't erase the things that someone has done. And this is the case in real life too. Like right you can only acknowledge things, grow from them and move on. Like that is the case in life. And I think that I would personally struggle with.

22:19 And we'll talk about the differences between Talon and Reese again in a second, but I would struggle with a redemption arc from Tamlin side that just explains away every poor behavior he has ever exhibited. Unless you are flipping every character in this story. And to do that, I would just be, I would have challenges with that.

22:42 I'm not telling Sarah what to do because like, like I would like to tell many people who are posting about this interview, it's her fucking world and her books and her character. It's like she can do what she wants. But I like, I think this is, I think that's the right answer is like, if you're going to give him a redemption arc, he needs to grow from what he's done. But we can't erase what he's done because then it makes the redemption feel fake.

23:06 Like it makes it feel cheap and cheaply written and cheaply told. My fund mental issue with Tamlin as a character has always been his inability to control his emotions and his response to most things being rage, right? Like and that is where you get crossed into this unacceptable behavior basically, right. So I don't know how you solve that problem within this book without a Prithian version of therapy. And if we get a Prithian version of therapy, kind of like we did with Nesta, OK.

23:38 You know, and I, we've talked about how a talent redemption art could work. I really like your idea of it being his repairing his relationship with Lucian rather than being something romantic. I think that's totally a way that this could go. But yeah, I mean, you, you cannot ignore the characters that she wrote in books 1-2 and three basically, right. You cannot ignore who he has become. And I think, I don't know, I really just think she said it perfectly.

24:03 I don't I didn't really have anything else to add. I thought it was a perfect answer to this question. Like she she could do it, but it would require a lot of care on her part and and we support that. Yeah, I think it could be done through sacrifice as well. It wouldn't really be a redemption in that case, in my opinion. It would just be like you wouldn't change necessarily. I wouldn't like it.

24:25 I actually wouldn't. That's that's the one thing I really wouldn't like. I don't think that I think that's an easy way out of this. And I don't think she's interested in writing. I'll read whatever she writes. I'll read whatever she writes. I think she she nailed it. The thing that I couldn't figure out, and I think I'm erring on the side of it, sounds like she hasn't.

24:41 The way that she phrased it was hard to tell whether she has approached this at all in anything she's written so far. It doesn't. Sound like it. It didn't sound like it to me. It sounds like she's thought about it. It sounds, it sounds like she's thought about how she would do it, but it did not sound to me like we're going to get a Tam. The redemption arc in the next book, personally, could be wrong.

25:02 She could be queen of misdirection. How do you feel about her response to the Reese questions? All right, so. This was specifically a question about Reese kind of withholding the information from Farah about her pregnancy. And first of all, just again, I know we talked about this at the top, but the experience that she went through with her pregnancies was so like emotionally devastating and raw to me.

25:26 And I know you and I both have fears of childbirth, but like, it was it was like really. So just like props to her for for sharing that and being that kind of like raw and open with her readers. So basically what she said is that Reese is entitled to like go through his own shit and make his own mistakes. So like she said, should he have told Fay, right? Yes.

25:48 But he was absolutely terrified. And she said it's much more interesting for me as a writer to have him make the wrong call and reflect on it later and have him basically say, oh, crap, maybe I did the same thing that as Tamlin does. How do I learn from it? So I thought kind of two interesting things there. One, she openly admitted that Reese made a mistake, which I think is really good because Priest did make a mistake, right?

26:11 So I think it's good that we're acknowledging this. What? What did I fuck up? No, no, you didn't fuck up. But like everybody is out there saying I shouldn't say everybody. A lot of people are saying that she justified Reese's actions. I did not hear one. I didn't hear her say that justification. Well, this is my second point.

26:31 What she said is he said that her I'll say justification, but her explanation was how do I learn from this, right? And we haven't seen that from Reese yet because the book ended basically, right. So I do think she owes us in book 6 Reese learning from it and Reese getting better and Reese growing as a character, which I'm all here for, right?

26:54 Like that's that's great. But like, no, she hasn't written that yet. But I do think we'll get it based on what she said. That's my hope. And like, obviously the difference is because people are going to say this, right? It's going to be Reese first, Tamlin. Tamlin didn't learn, Tamlin didn't grow. Tamlin kept doubling down and making the same mistakes, right? So we're going to see if Reese learns and if Reese grows from this or if he doesn't.

27:15 And if he doesn't, you know, we might have to like re examine our relationship with Reese, but seems like he's going to. Yeah, yeah, I think I totally agree that she acknowledged that it was fucked up and basically said, and like authors are allowed to do this. Like authors are allowed to write characters that do bad things.

27:34 Like this is permitted because they are. Isn't it boring if they don't? Right, she said. Like it would be pretty boring for Pharaoh to just go be happy and start punching out kids. Like they need to have conflict and growth. This was like a bad thing that Reese did like objectively so, and they now need to grow from it. I think that what we didn't see that I hope we I hope we like understand what happened here.

28:00 Like whatever happened off page between Pharaoh and Reese after that, I'm sure Pharaoh fucking let him have it because like, I mean, he didn't tell her he was her mate and she went and painted an entire house and didn't speak to him for days. Like I can't even imagine. She probably put her entire foot up his ass. Like like the.

28:25 Entire townhouse is covered in paint now. I'm sure he answered to this somehow. I mean, I think the thing we're also forgetting sometimes with this Reese storyline is that Reese fully thought he was going to die too, right? So like for Reese, the calculation was, I only have a couple months left.

28:46 How do I want to spend, you know so. Yeah, as soon as Sarah was asked this question, it was a question about Farah's agency she launched into her own traumatic pregnancy experience. And it sounded a little bit like she could understand someone who loved, like, loves her wanting to take burden away. And I'm not trying to justify it, but like it, it could explain a motive behind why Reese did what he did. And like that was her way of processing it. Like she said out loud, writing this was my way of processing what happened to me and that's it. For me, for me, there was never any question that Reese was doing what he was doing out of love. It was misguided, but it was never, he's manipulating her. Oh, he's evil.

29:34 His intentions were always pure. It was the execution that was that was wrong. And, and yeah, I mean, Sarah acknowledges that and says he has to learn from it and grow. And I hope, I hope that's what we're getting. Hope he grows. But I think she did say, like, and this is I feel like this is going to upset some people.

29:52 But she had say, like, race and fair are in love their mates. As a writer, it is more compelling to have them go through ups and downs than just have Farrah, like, happy. Yeah. And punching out kids. Yeah. And I think the really powerful piece to me of how she told that story was when she compared it to her experience and said, like, I would have like, I would have died and my son would have died if we do not have modern medicine. So yeah.

30:15 I mean, it, it was clearly a deeply personal story for her and she wrote it the way that she was feeling and that the way she wanted to write it. Like that's what it comes down to. Yeah. Yeah. I. Hear that people are upset by that element of the story. I was upset by that element of the story.

30:32 Like, yeah, I was like, it was the one thing that Reese has ever done where I was just like, wow, I'm so fucking mad at you over this. Like. So it's the wrong call, there's no question. Actively the wrong call. But I I think Sarah thinks that too. I think she said that. And I think like, I think the one thing that has like kind of frustrated me about the people's responses to this question is, again, these are her books, her worlds, her characters.

30:58 Like I have seen some vapid, vapid shit about how she's like, toxic to excuse that behavior, to justify it, how it's like fucked up to love Reese after he did that. She's saying that she can never write a redemption art for Tamlin, but she's out here still loving Reese. It comes down to violence and anger.

31:18 That's what it comes down to. We are told off screen that Tamlin has been working very hard to try to get Farah out of the bargain with Reese because he because he loves her. But there's a huge difference in the way that they went about it, right? Like Tamlin locks her in the Manor, he locks her in the Manor.

31:35 He takes away her agency, and he explodes in rage, and he lets his fear turn into violence. Violence directed at Farah, right? And Reese doesn't do that. Reese does not let his fear turn into violence. Reese turns his fear into action. And it's still bad. It's still bad that he lied to her. But these are the nuances that matter. It's about how you respond to this wrestlers in your life and when you respond to them with violence, that's when it's not OK anymore.

32:05 If you want to love Tamlin, you can love Tamlin, but you can't make me love Tamlin, and I can't make you love Reese. It's OK. And I'm also, I'm not trying to shut down the Reese suspicion theories. I'm really not. I actually still think they're really interesting and I especially like the theories of Reece being like the back story of a villain in another story.

32:25 We'll leave it at that because I think one thing that Sarah Jamas does really well is tell the good side and the bad side of a character. But this like how dare Sarah Jamas justified domestic abuse shit like. This ain't your podcast, Yeah. She says there's things that will play out from this development, so I don't think we've proved the end of this. And I believe her, right?

32:44 She set us up for that. She set us up for that. Reese has some growing today. Certainly. OK, cool. All right. I will ask myself, now that we know more about book 6, whose POV's do we think we're getting? So we obviously got some some answer word salad around glue reality and A to B storytelling.

33:07 Lots about glue. So I think that the Aqatar 6 POV might be might be more surprising and the Aqatar 7 and we talked about whether we're calling it Seven, I'm going to call it 7 for right now. Like, yeah, we'll call. It seven I just. Don't. It's 7 on Barnes and Noble. OK, Yeah, it's 7 on Sarah J Mass's latest Instagram post. A guitar sevens PO BS might be what we were talking about in our last episode.

33:37 I think the Lucian, Vasa, Elaine, that whole as real story seems like that because it's the longer story might be where we're headed. And for context for everybody, we know that a guitar 6 is a shorter story and we know the actor 7 is a longer one. Thinking a guitar 6 might be a few things. One, I think it might be it might just be Nesta. It might be like a continuation of Nesta's POBI think that would make sense for several reasons.

34:08 And this is our mass first plug to the Agatar only listeners. I think you should read the mass first, but I think it could be a continuation of of Master POBI. Think it could also be a Moore or an heiress POV as well. The reason that I think that is because one, it seemed like she was kind of, she said she was surprised. So she was surprised by the POV that she came out with. I think I I wouldn't be surprised if Sarah thought that Sarah was going to write the Archeron sisters and then Sarah ended up not writing the Archeron sisters when she put pen to paper on book 6.

34:41 Let's say the only thing I'm absolutely 100% confident at this point is that this is not an Elaine 6 only POV book. There is no way based on what she said on this interview. Right? Like. Yeah, yeah. And Moore and heiress, either or or both. I don't know if that'd be crazy, but more heiress or both would both be surprising.

35:02 And I think they would give us information we would not have access to through anybody else. Yeah, so one of the things she said was you'll get she said this kind of quietly. I had to go back and like re listen and then Alex cut her off unfortunately. But she said you'll get a lot of insight into various dot dot dot.

35:25 So I definitely think we're getting a multi POV more than two-story I. Think 7 could be and this isn't? Well, we can cut it if we think it's a spoiler, but I don't think it's that much of A spoiler. I think we could get a Kingdom of Ash style cacophony in. In seven I think we could too. I don't write that's the question. Is book 6 going to be a bunch of multi PO VS or is book 7 going to be a bunch of multi PO VS?

35:51 But we we really seem to be getting set up for a big huge multi POV story. I also think with six, what we could be doing is fucking with timelines a little right? So I think we could be going back in time, I'm not going to say how far back. I think we could be going back in time and seeing events that we have already seen play out just for sex from a different perspective.

36:16 For example, Papa Archeron and crochet. What happened with that? We have no idea. But could that could be be our little prequel, that story be our little prequel before we get a big crochet story in Seven? I don't know. But it feels like she's going to do something she's never done before, and she's never really played with timelines here, so. I mean, I'll give I was going to save this for our next well in two questions, but since this is Acatar only and like I don't like to deprive you guys of stuff if you can know it. Like we have been getting teased about the Daglin and like the period of them ruling incessantly in Acatar. It is possible.

37:00 It is possible that we crack open Book 6 and our POV character is a character that we have never seen in a guitar before. I think is what Ronnie is trying to get out here. Well, I think I think it could be, I think it could be her first, a guitar prequel and I think like she has done prequels in other series before.

37:19 Not a spoiler, she's done. Prequel in other. Series before and I think we have been teased about a time in Prithian that seems to matter because we keep fucking hearing about it but have no accurate source on it. So could we be getting a prequel of the Daglin era in which case we would not know the POV? And she did say like why do I have to do A to B storytelling which is giving, I'm thinking prequel. Jeremy Bear me, Yeah.

37:49 The only thing that that I am wondering with that, and I would to be clear, I'd be so down if it were just a straight prequel. I would love if it were a straight prequel. But we do have this harp. So like we still could feasibly get a nest of POV with this harp and like go back in time because we just we ended silver flames with like, oh shit.

38:10 Time is a thing with this harp. Yeah, but I don't know, that would be kind of wild because then we would just have Nesta like gallivanting around by herself in another time, which would be kind of crazy. So she's by herself, yeah. I don't know. We don't know whether she can take people with her, but we've only seen her go by herself so far. Yeah, I agree.

38:27 I agree. I don't think there's much more we can say in this part of the episode. Yeah. OK. Next question, do we think this is an Accoter only book? No, no. No shot in hell, guys. Read the maths first, OK, that's it, she said. She said you've had enough time. That was your warning. You have had plenty of time, she said it.

38:48 She said it immediately at the beginning of the intermediately. She said you've had plenty of time. That's what she said. She said you've had plenty of time. You've had plenty of time. She's saying to your face spoilers are fair game. I'm going to crossover. Prepare. I just I just don't see how it's not a mass first book.

39:07 That doesn't necessarily mean you have to read Crescent City because it's Crescent City, guys. It's like, well, I'm just telling you right now, you're going to want to prioritize Crescent City if you're going to try to catch up. She hasn't said that you need to read it. I don't know that you're going to need to read it, but I do think we're getting mass first crossover in this book. It's just a question of if she explains it within the realm of Acatar or not, and it's going to be much better for you if you read versus today and if you know what's going. Regardless of whether there is crossover or not, that is definitely true.

39:39 It's going to be better, yeah. I mean, she we're getting a big epic story. I just don't see, I don't see what big epic story she would write at this point that she would keep within the bounds of Prythian when she has built this whole universe. So that's my thinking. That's it. All right, well, that concludes our act. Our only section of this podcast and we are now going to be moving on to mass versus spoilers. If you are leaving us here, we are on social media, TikTok, Instagram and YouTube as Dragons in the details pod if you want to follow us there.

40:12 If you are on any of those platforms and you haven't. Seen us there and you're in the Agatar mass versus universe. I'd be shocked. So if you come across this on there, just hit the follow button. It's so easy. We are now going to talk about spoilers for Throne of Glass and Crescent City, all of them, all the books. So be warned. 321 mass versus spoilers. OK, what story do we think we're getting an actor 6 through 8? So I already kind of said this, but I can talk about it more loosely here, obviously.

40:41 So I'll start and then like obviously just pile on. I think we're getting a prequel for six. I think we're getting non linear storytelling because she literally said why do I have to be confined? I don't need to do A to B storytelling. Regardless, The reason I think this is exactly because of what I said in a guitar only. Even if you are an A guitar only reader, you are wondering about the Daglin.

41:02 You're like, what the fuck were the Daglin? Why do only Reese Namer know about them? Why do their stories kind of conflict? Like what? What the fuck actually happened here? Who was Fion? Like who the. Fuck was Fionn. So enough has been teased that I think ACOTAR only readers would still appreciate this. And so getting the story of who they were and when they ruled Prithian would make sense.

41:25 Even if you're just reading ACOTAR, which she likes to do, right? She likes to make it still make sense. If you read the series Stand Alone, we do not know how Vesperus came into power. We know that Thea and Beyond overthrew them, but we don't really know the particulars. And we know that they was convinced to leave by Rigelous, who I recently learned was pronounced Rigelous. Which makes me want to fucking kill myself. Guess what Sarah said?

41:48 All pronunciations are welcome and this is a safe space so I don't fucking care. So I think. We're getting used to very guys. All pronunciations are right. I think we're getting this Siri takeover of Prithean. I think we and subsequent defeat. And I think that in that we are getting Vesperous crossover, we're getting Rigilous and their intersection.

42:09 And I think that we could also get Rigilous in Irelia, which I would lose my fucking mind over. I need to know who he is. So I think we could get that. And I think we'll get this as it ties into Cochet and the Bone Carver and Shriega and like who they are. And it would also tie into Hell, because Hell helped and this would be complex as fuck and I would love it. And it would be the mega merger.

42:32 It would turn Akhtar into the mega merger and I would lose my mind. Yeah, I mean, as I was thinking about it, right as I was thinking about it, what she's teasing, what is the craziest thing she could possibly do? This is the craziest thing. This is the craziest thing. She could do a book set 15,000 years before the events of Acatar with no Acatar characters too.

42:55 She could do it without a single Acatar character and I think it would be great. I don't know if she's going to do it, but that would be the absolute most batshit thing that she could possibly do in my opinion. Is Acatar 615 thousand years ago. The only issue is, do we lose any mystery there? Like are we, are we losing? We're kind of like that's kind of the answer key to all of this, right?

43:18 So is that the story that she wants to tell or does she want to tease it out over multiple stories? Because the impact on that on Crescent City is fucking huge too, right? And like, I don't know the impact on everything really. Well, I think it could. Like it could twist Crescent City in a way Crescent City has not currently twisted like in Crescent City right now.

43:40 Hell are good guys and Steri are bad guys. Daglin are thought to be a Steri. You don't really have a solid link on Valg. Like yes, it could answer everything, but I don't think it has to answer everything and I think it could throw things out of whack. And the reason I think that it could be 6 and make so much sense as 6 is because if you're an A guitar reader and you pick that up and you finish it and you're like, what the fuck happened to the characters?

44:06 Like cared about? That's why she's putting 7 out so quickly right after. Yeah, right. That's the question we have to ask ourselves. Why is 7 coming so quickly on the heels of 6? Why did she separate it this way? Like, she clearly felt that it was important that these three are released as a unit, right? If it's because Six has none of our characters so far, first of all, I think most people would be pretty upset about that. I think you and I and our listeners would be really excited.

44:32 But I think a lot of people will be really upset if Azrael's not even at this fuck right. If the protagonist of this book is Celine, I'm fucking pumped. I'm so pumped. If Celine is the POV, I'm pumped. Yeah, I am too. I don't know if she's going to do it. It's such a bold choice. But this whole interview, this whole interview was about her bold choices and the bold choices she's made in her entire life. So I don't know.

45:00 I don't know, but it would be good. Yeah, and I'm Crescent. Imagine Crescent City 4 is Helena. Holy shit. Well, apparently it's Helena. I started looking at pronunciation. I don't know. How does My Chemical Romance say it? I think they say Helena. I think. I think dother accepted pronunciation.

45:20 Anyways, what did you have for this question? I have a crackpot idea that's, I mean, that's the crackpot idea, but I have like a disappointing idea. I have written in my notes, are we going back 15,000 years? Are we getting Thea, Helena, Celine as POV characters? Are we getting the ancient fake warrior that was trapped on the lake or that trapped crochet on the lake?

45:36 So all I'll say is we talked about in our Book 6 Predictions episode that came out today about the idea of the crochet story being one thing and the Nesta and the Star Sword story being one thing and being different. I don't think they're different anymore. I think she's merging them. I think we're getting one huge story. I think it's going to be so good. Like, I don't know.

45:59 I don't know. I'm so excited, so fucking excited. This interview made me so happy. Like I just want to read this story. I feel like 6. I feel like 85% of people are going to love 7 and I feel like 15% the crazy motherfuckers who listen to this podcast. I just have a feeling that 6 is going to be the one for the mass first people, but I don't know, maybe I'm completely wrong. I don't know, I don't know, like we, we saw the interview through RPOB, right?

46:27 Where we've been talking about the mass first for like 9 months. We're like, Oh yeah, this is what she's writing. It could also be a story of Nesta transitioning to Elaine, right? It could be Nesta having the Star Sword, figuring something out and then passing it off to Elaine. Totally it could. Or on the continent.

46:44 Would be more on the continent. It could be Paris. I would love it if it were. I'd be good with Harris. I'd be it could be recent Fayrah and silver flames that wouldn't make me that excited, but it could be be fine, you know? But the the absolute most exciting thing that she could do is a 15,000 year prequel in my opinion.

47:05 Yeah, totally. You see? I think it could be all those things. I, I mean, at this point there's no casting votes. It's written so. Yeah. We're getting what we're getting. We're getting what we're getting. Can't be upset. And that book ends with, that's first giving birth to Thea. I don't know, but yeah, I don't know. I like that too, because the length is right, because we've gotten most of this story already. But there's clearly gaffes.

47:31 There's clearly things we haven't quite been told. And so it doesn't fit for it to be in 1000 page story because you're like, OK, we already already know a lot of this, but it's only like 350 pages. I don't know. I like it. And I like it too because it solves the problem of the masters, right. It solves the problem of her readers that haven't read Crescent City, that haven't figured, haven't listened to this podcast and like, done all the deep dives, right.

47:57 Like, it solves that problem. But still, it still gives her Crescent City readers new information, a new perspective on things that they've learned. Yeah. Cool. OK, all right. What do we think Sarah wrote recently that came together so well? Am I going first? I really, my first thought was your precog from last episode about Reese talking to a Prince of Hell.

48:19 That was my first thought, that she's going to go back and look at that scene again and it's going to have been Reese talking to a Prince of hell in his dreams because it just works so well. It just works so well that that's what I thought it would be. So you think she didn't premeditate that? You think she's just? I don't know if she was premeditating things and missed and Fury because she said in that book that Miss and Fury or in that interview that Miss and Fury just kind of like poured out from her.

48:45 Yeah. And that she hadn't really written Crescent City yet, so I don't know. But like, it would work. It would work so well. Yeah, it would work so well. That's my thinking. Yeah, that interview did make me wonder whether, like, you know how we always joke about whether she writes thematically or she's a genius? I wonder whether.

49:05 Little column A, little column B. Both. Yeah. She writes thematically, so she always has these little like, basically like a circuit board where she just like, can plug things in if she chooses to, if she thinks of it, finds a way. Yeah. Yeah, I totally think me and this theory could work and my thoughts behind like, why?

49:27 Yeah. Or something like that. I mean, I I was hoping that she was writing Vesperous taking power and us getting the reveal of who Rigelous was in Irelia. That'd be great too. I don't know, like how that would quote work out so well, but like, yeah, I really want to know who Rigelous is. And yeah, Irelia.

49:48 Von. He's Von. No, he wouldn't be. Von wouldn't be. People would have to follow him. Yeah, and he wouldn't take a blood out to. Fucking Knave. OK, all right, me to me is Elaine rejecting the bond. So I don't have a super long answer on this one. Sarah Dumas sounds like she's basically going to have Elaine be the token experiment with free will against the mating bond. That's how I interpreted her answer. So what she basically responded to this question with was kind of a non answer.

50:18 Basically, I think Elaine has a lot of shit going on. I think she just has like a whole new body and suddenly she's like changed to this man and she like wants to see like what else is out there. To me, sounds like she's definitely not committing to an answer on whether the bond is real. The bond is fake.

50:35 Elaine is rejecting it. Elaine is accepting it. Like we don't know. I don't feel like we have an answer after that answer, but it sounds like at minimum, like my expectation after that answer is that Elaine is going to fuck around a lot. Elaine is not going to whatever, whatever she's doing, it is not accepting this bond with Lucian in this next installment. She is going to go out and discover herself and not entertain the concept of mates at the moment. I totally agree with you, I just this thought pops into my head like if it's not Lucian and if it's not as real who is it? It's not Tamlin after after that interview it's definitely not Tamlin.

51:14 Like who? Who would it be? Well, and yeah, maybe I'm. Maybe I'm and I'm like taking it too far, but like what if? Like what if Elaine is just going to be free for a bit? Like Nest, like Nesta was at the beginning of Silver Flames, or just like truly like no one. I don't know. I mean, I meant truly no one when I said it, but I. Feel like we're getting spice.

51:37 I don't know, but yeah. Yeah, she'll definitely spice, but like, as far as like one true love? No, no, I know. Yeah, I agree. It's just that she's already kind of written that with Nesta, So it would have to be like a little more interesting than what happened with Nesta. You you know what I'm saying?

51:53 Yeah. No, I think something has to happen with Azrael at some point. I don't know if it's. I'm not saying they end up together, I don't know, but it does seem like that we're going in that direction. No, yeah, too much have been teased. Yeah, yeah. But I don't know. But it seems, I don't know, like it seems like maybe Sarah was saying this is going to be an exercise of free will rather than like there is an acceptance or a rejection happening here. But also, like, she wasn't going to fucking answer this question. No.

52:24 So, OK, did you have anything else for that one? I really didn't. Bryce was leading. Dead guys our IP to Bryce real we. Can cut this if we want, but I'm just going to go on the record or saying I'm never talking about it again. OK, it's done. There is one of two reasons that Bryce ended up in Prithee and it's the Star Sword or the horn.

52:44 That's it, That's all. It's certainly not be the Propel. Could also be the other third of Faye's power calling to her. There's reasons, but it's not as real. Yeah, it's not as real. They're not mates. And this is, by the way, this is something that we got completely right in our last episode, which is that Sarah is not going to answer questions she doesn't want to answer unless she thinks they're so laughable that she'll just be like, that's ridiculous. No, Bryce and Azrael are not mates. Hunt and Nesta.

53:14 No, sorry, Cassie and Nesta. Cassie and Anesta. Recent Farah, recent Farah Bates. That's it. That's all the confirmation we got, by the way. Yeah, that was the only. Those two pairs, literally only those two pairs. She didn't even. She denied Bryce and Asriel, but she actually did not confirm Bryson Hunt, which just kind of fucked. She did say it's Bryson Hunt.

53:35 She did right before she said no, no, no, she said Bryson. Hunt end game, yeah. Yeah, yeah, she said. It's Bryson Hunt. She did say that, yeah. She just didn't say that in the and I had people commenting on her Instagram, she didn't mention them with the true mates and I'm like, my God, did you listen to this interview?

53:50 It's an Angel, so it's fun. All right, OK, All right, theory, rapid fire. So we took the rapid fire questions and we are going to rapid fire those questions as well, giving our responses to the questions that Alex asked Sarah at the end of the episode, if applicable. OK, we're going to. I want to call out the ones that were asked that we crossed out just because they were fun.

54:13 Actually, not all of them. I mean, I just want to call out. But she asked what Lorcan did, which was like the dumbest rapid fire question ever because we all know what Lorcan did. He fucked a lead. Fucked a lead. Roll up anyways. OK, All right, where is Vaughn? Sarah said. You know, that's actually a thing I think about a lot. A lot.

54:30 And that's all I'll say about it. So. Like Vaughn was last seen in the wild north of Cherasin, right? That's supposedly where we last saw him hunting work in. No one actually saw him there. We don't know where he was. There's only two reasons to think about Vaughn anymore. As far as I'm concerned, we're either going to Aurilia where Vaughn is no longer in Aurelia, right? So if she's thinking about Vaughn, one of those two things is happening.

54:55 I don't know which it is. I do not think about Vaughn that much. So I'm glad that you are Sarah, because I'm not doing that. I. Think about Vaughn, because I think he's on Prithian. That's the most likely answer here is that he's somehow on Prithian, but I'm curious as to how he got there. Did he go through the archway and the waist?

55:11 I don't know. Yeah. And this is where again, not this is not for now. This is not for now. But I know you guys have someone out there has ideas on and I feel like it's probably Dasha, but my memory is escaping me. I feel like there have been ample gymnastics to not specify the name of the continent and the name of the worlds and Israelia, just the continent in a different time. I don't know.

55:38 I don't know. Where's von? All right. I don't know where. Where Von is, all I know from that answer is we're definitely getting Von. Like I think, I mean he's coming back. He definitely plays a role. I think he's going to play some. I think he's going to contribute to our crossover. I hope so. No, he's going to. All right.

55:52 Is the settling the same as the drop? This was responded with Skip, So probably yes, probably related. Get this idea at all if I'm being honest right? Because the drop was created by the Esteri to harvest first light, and the drop only exists because of the parasite that was present in the waterways in Midgard.

56:11 So if the settling is the same as the drop, there is so much history that we are missing on Aurelia right? Like that means that the Asteria also, we know the Asteria were there, but that means that the Asteria are also infecting the magic of Aurelia basically. And there has been no parasite cure there. So like the implications of these things being the same are so huge that I don't really get how they can be. It would also kind of have to mean that the Pharaoh made from humans or the humans were made from fae or something. Like yeah, it would have.

56:43 Big I don't know. It would have big I. Don't and I don't really know why she would skip it other than just like I don't have brain space or time to explain it. Right, right. I don't know but I I cannot understand how these two things would be the same thing. But it's also kind of a question mark as to like how this so the drop being created by the Asteria to harvest power is interesting because characters in Throne of Glass seem to drop like they seem to tunnel. Yeah, and this is not our throne of last, nor is it our Crescent City season.

57:15 And we will discuss those things when they. Are characters who settle seem to drop? Yes, I mean, Aylan has talked about dropping into her power many times. And Aylan's mortal body disappears when she closes the word gate and she like settles and Bryce says when you do the drop your mortal body disappears and you are forever banner basically Right.

57:33 So definitely seems inspired by the settling, but I don't think it can be the same thing. Yeah, and this might be a situation where Sarah wrote matically and thought maybe I'll plug this in together later, and then she hasn't decided yet, so fine, OK Will we ever see our Throne of Glass characters again? She said.

57:52 I think about them all the time if my children let we sleep in past five, but sure. Yes, yes, yes, and we. Have Rigelous and Irelia. We're getting Irelia again. We're getting these characters. Again, yeah, the story's not done. She said, she said she thinks about Vaughn. She's thinking about Vaughn.

58:11 Yeah, she's thinking about. Vaughn yeah, we're getting them again. I just don't. Get them again. Yeah. Yeah, she thinks about them all the time. Where is Manan now? In therapy. In therapy? As long as she and Dorian are both in therapy and hanging out together afterwards, I'm cool with this answer. I said this is a great non answer and I totally loved it. I don't know where Manan is, but I know that Sarah knows where Manan is.

58:30 Sarah knows where Manan is, wondering if she has any descendants in the library and. I mean, here's the fun thing about Manan. Manan went to the waist, Ansel says. There's an archway in the waist that looks can be A to other worlds, right? Is Manon going through that archway? I don't know. I don't know.

58:46 Don't know what happened to the world of Throne of Glass book. She said she thought it would be easy but it wasn't and she needs to dedicate a lot of time to it. I have no thoughts on this. I have so many thoughts on this. I have so many thoughts on this. This is because of everything we've been talking about with Ridgeless and Aurelia, right? She had a history of throwing glass and then she Brett Condit in Crescent City and said, actually the Esteri, we're on Aurelia the entire time.

59:08 And that's fine. That's fine. She planted those seeds, but now she needs to weave it in. I think that's exactly what happened here, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have many thoughts about the history of Throne of Glass. Are you ever going to do the World of Throne of Glass book? Probably not. I don't know.

59:21 Yeah, it's at guitar 6. That's but. Sure, fine. I feel like she did. Yeah. I don't know. I'm curious whether she's ever going to do like a Tolkien style like Middle Earth. I hope so. Description of everything once this is all gloss established enough, Yeah, but we are. So established enough, I think the fundamental answer here was she was going to write the world of Throne of Glass. And then she realized that she's doesn't need to be done with Throne of Glass and that she could go back and change things. And that is why this book is still on the shelf. And I hope we get it.

59:57 I hope. We get it. I would like it. Yeah, I would like it. How do Faye get into the House of Wind when they don't have wings? She said. This might be something you find out. dot dot dot. I have a pretty clear theory on this. I'm curious whether you do too. I have never once thought about this. This has never crossed my mind.

1:00:14 It's the fucking pegasi. But how do they currently get into the House of Wind? No, they, they the Illyrians now, like how? How did they? How do they? Yeah, the Pegasi. Yeah, well, I I thought 10,000 steps didn't seem that bad if you're an able bodied fan. But yeah, I like that idea. The pegasi. I mean, it is incredibly.

1:00:34 Impractical and crazy. To. Create a house whose only way in was 10,000 steps. However, they have a landing pad courtyard on there. They have a helipad on the roof. Yeah. OK, so this is another argument that ACOTAR 6 is actually a saline book, right? Celine ruling Valeris from the House of Wind, getting in and out on her winged horses on her Jelly jubilee and. This is Jelly Jubilee.

1:01:02 Yeah, all of it. Yeah, the original Jelly Jubilee. The original Jelly Jubilee. Yeah, love it. All right, what is Rusan's last name? She said. I'm not telling you. There's too much pressure now. He's one of one. Yeah. So I took this to mean that Reese does not have the same last name as anyone else, which I think completely makes sense because everything we've talked about has been passed down through women and the maternal line.

1:01:30 And this is actually a patriarchal society, unfortunately. And they take the men's last name typically. So I don't think Reese's last name matters at all. I think his family tree matters an incredible amount. But like, I don't have any thoughts on what Reese's last name is. It's interesting because I agree with you that he doesn't have the same I don't think he has the same last name as anybody else, but I think he's he's one of one is an interesting thing to say, right, Because like that's I don't know, it could be construed different ways. Like he must not have a last name that we recognize, right, Because if his maternal line is the one that matters, I assume right, because Celine married a

1:02:10 Lord of night, then like that last name is the one that got past town. Her last name is the one that matters. It was lost. Her last name wasn't really even the one that matters, because they yeah, I assume that name didn't take precedent. Over hiking fee on? Probably not. Yeah, yeah. But I think that one of one was like an interesting phrase because it also could mean like a unique combination of bloodlines.

1:02:37 Like could he? I don't know, like could he be? We've already talked about a Steri and hell, that is not unique, we think, because we think that Celine and Helena are already that. But like, could he also have something else? If if Valgar throne of Glass gods are different, like could he also have that?

1:02:55 I don't know, like what does it mean that he's one of one? Because he does seem different than just about everybody else. Yeah, I don't know. I don't have the answer for that right now. But I do agree that that is interesting. Yeah, and also like, if it's insignificant, why wouldn't you tell us?

1:03:10 She said there's too much pressure now. Like if it's it's significant, why would you tell us? If it doesn't matter, well. It can still be not the same as anybody else and still have significance. Yeah, I don't know. Like if it's starborn than a pregnant. It's it's daughter of best friend. Yeah.

1:03:27 I don't know. It's just a steri actually. No, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I think it's the wrong question. And so she gave it a non answer. I think it's always been the wrong question. Well, I don't. I don't know that it's fair to say that's the wrong question because she brought it up. She brought up his family name in a bonus chapter. She put it into existence.

1:03:46 I just assumed that was in response to all this speculation. Then why? Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Keep your secrets, Sarah. Keep your. Secrets. All right. What is the King of Hyburn's name? She said. It actually might be something that is discussed. Thoughts. The obvious answer here would be Dorian Senior. I don't know that I'd like it being Dorian Senior because we got a very good arc for that character, right? So I don't really love this idea of it being Dorian Senior. Like, it can't be a Val King.

1:04:16 He wasn't powerful enough to be a Val King. It can't be one of our missing Val King brothers. I just don't know who it would be. I don't know. I don't know what his name would be that would matter. I went Holland, a billiard, Dorian's brother. OK, well, that would be good. I take it all back. I like Holland.

1:04:32 I don't like Dorian, but I like Holland. If it's something that might be discovered that he's Faye Holland. Holland is a king of hybrid, but the king of hybrid is Faye. Unless he went into the cauldron. He's got a cauldron, He's got the. Cauldron. He's got the cauldron. What if it's Vaughn? Well, right, I wrote. Unless it's Vaughn.

1:04:49 I really wrote. Unless, of course, this was someone else like Vaughn. I mean, it's not, it's someone that matters, right? Like that's the if it's if it's something that might be discussed. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who who the king of Hybrid would be, but we'll find out. I'm willing to think about it more.

1:05:04 OK, we don't know. Drop, drop your answers in the comments. All right, What are Moore's powers? The truth. This one fucked me up. She said truth, but there might be other powers too, and there might be more beyond that. Anything is possible. And she said this very flustered. She's very flustered when she said this. She's a witch.

1:05:22 This so truth. But there might be other powers too, and there might be more beyond that. This gave me more than just a witch, to be honest. This gave me. Who are you? What are you? What are you? Yeah. I mean, we talked to her. We talked about her being a deaf God. Yeah. Yeah. You think she's Maeve? We back to thinking she's Maeve.

1:05:43 I have Maeve in this table. I have Maeve question mark. Maeve, is that you? The other thing that I like about the prequel concept is we also get more insight into Moore's line, right? Because her family ruled the north and so far Moore's and Reese's families and intersection has made basically zero sense.

1:06:08 Like it's basically non existent. And so right now for all I fucking know, more could be made and cure could be a fucking Prince of hell. Like I don't even know. Like they could just be they could be not at all who they say they are. But with a prequel we would get those answers. And so I like this is another point for we would get more information about more with that.

1:06:30 This could also be a point for like, maybe we just get more on the continent. Yeah, it feels like we're going to get more. More no matter what. Definitely getting more and more. Yeah. Cool. Can you tell me anything about the Dust Court and are you going to explore it more in the next book? What do you want me to say, Alex?

1:06:50 Yeah, yes, it's going to be a Dust Court book, guys. We're getting this story one way or another. It's just a question of how she does it. Yeah. Have you seen the promotional material for this book? It is all dust gradients. It's all dust. Court gradient, guys, dust court gradients. All right, cool.

1:07:09 Where did Brie Axis go? Sarah said. Where do you think she went? What do you think she is up to? Where does Fear Itself go? So I loved the reveal that Bri Axis is a woman because there's no men allowed in the library. So obviously Bri Axis is a woman. Obviously. Reacts so good. So good. Yeah. All of you. I love that.

1:07:31 So we've gotten a lot of theories in our inbox that Bri Axis is Calton. I haven't really dug into that. I love that you guys are like, now that I know she's a woman, it's Caltane. I think what this does do by assigning this gender to Reactis is open, interesting theory ideas. I still stand by the I still think Reactis is a demon. Fundamentally, I think that's what she is, but we haven't met any women and many females from hell, right? So I think that still plays with that idea. I think that's still interesting and I want to get back to this character.

1:08:04 One of our discorders, and I apologize, I don't remember who it was, one of our discorders pointed out that the imagery about where fear itself goes is very similar to kind of what Irene talks about when she's healing Kaol and she's like in his body and like there's the Valk. Basically the Valk injury is in there and like it's fear and it's pain and it's everything and she has to like beat it out with her white healing light basically.

1:08:31 So like could Bri Axis actually be hiding in someone? Could she have possessed someone? Could she not necessarily in a like malevolent way, but could she could she be somewhere within someone and could that explain some odd behaviors or something? Right. But what I thought was interesting is like, if she is fear, why is she hiding?

1:08:52 Like why would fear itself hide? Like where, where is she? You know, like why isn't she making herself known? Like what's going on here? Why did she disappear? And where is she now? I don't know. Those are kind of my my thoughts. Yeah, obviously the fact that she's a she is an interesting reveal. I didn't know.

1:09:09 I didn't really think of it as like too revealing it more just like like there's some other interesting people. Now that I'm thinking about Cal Tain is 1. Fury is another like there's, there's more, there's not people that I'm thinking Brie axis is, there's people that I'm thinking Brie axis might be in. Yeah.

1:09:29 Yeah. Because yes, like where does fear itself go? We have only been told that fear goes anywhere in this in this world, and it's inside people. Yeah, period. I still kind of like our weird theory that more saw Brie axis just like taking a little nap. Yeah, I like that too. The Woods. So maybe Briaxis and more are hanging out, I don't know.

1:09:54 But I do think it's time for a girl now to come home. Yeah, so like. Make an appearance again yeah, I don't know cool. But face of nightmares is still a thing that Briaxis is called and now we have a she face of nightmares and we had Reese as a face of nightmares in this piece forum as well. So now I'm like, what's going on with? Three access Reese's mother?

1:10:18 No, I don't think so. Yeah, OK, Who is Mama Archeron? Is she a descendant of the Iron Teeth witches? Sarah said. I need a spicy Margarita. Well, she's certainly someone at this point. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much of this was just Sarah throwing out misdirection whenever she could. Yeah, I think we certainly got into that territory.

1:10:36 Is Cormac actually dead? Where did you find these questions? Was Sarah's response? I mean, I thought this was kind of a weird one, to be honest. I'm not really. I mean, maybe we'll talk about it more in Crescent City because we haven't covered that yet, but I've not wondered whether Cormac was. Not dead. I've never wondered if Carmack wasn't dead. I don't care if he's not dead.

1:10:56 He's not the character I'm rooting for to not be dead at the end of this, you know what I mean? Like what? We've learned everything we can from him. What more can we get from Cormac at this point? I. Certainly think Cormac is connected to Cure so I'd like to know more, but he had a nice arc. I like a nice arc, he had a nice arc and now he's hopefully off with Sophie having a nice time in the eternal realms or whatever it is. His dead girlfriend does.

1:11:21 Yeah. All right. Or Bryson Hunt end game. Yes. RIP Bryce Real. OK, I have no comment on that. Yeah, no comment. How did the Book of Breathings and The Walking Dead end up in Jezebel's library? I don't know. You'll have to stay tuned for answers. So we're going to find out. I feel good about that. Anything else to add?

1:11:37 On no, I mean, we have a pretty clear idea of how the book of Breathings could have it's the question is, how did The Walking Dead? And I look forward to finding that out. Do you look forward to finding, especially considering we have Dorian Havelier, the first allegedly stirring a cauldron at some point.

1:11:53 All right, there's a lot of theories the recent and rune are related. Can you confirm or deny this was kind of a dumb question? They are related. That's not even a theory. They are related. Like, and this one was met with silence. And I kind of like to think, and this is I'm, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean to Alex here, but I kind of like to think Sarah was like squint. So I think what this question was, was is Reese's sister Groom's mom.

1:12:21 I think that is really the question that she was asking here, but she didn't ask that. And we still don't know the answer to that question. But Reese and Rune and Bryce are related. They are related from a 15,000 year ago family tree, but they are related. Yeah, yeah. Guys, yeah, I have in my notes, obviously, dot dot dot, all right?

1:12:43 Is Maeve related to any of them? Sarah said. I feel like I should hand over my notebooks to you. I have nothing more to say on this more than what we have said. All this like I I still don't know how I see how it could. I see how it could be. Yeah. I mean, my question is and continues to be until we cover both of these series and have theories that make sense, is Maeve.

1:13:05 Does Maeve look like them or did Maeve choose to look like Vesperus, who is their relative? That is my question. Yeah. I don't like, I don't know. I think that Mave is related to them. Yet because Mave chooses her form, she for some reason has chosen to look like an Asteri, who we think is an ancestor of recent route. Well, and the Asteri choose their form. So who is this woman that everyone is choosing their form after?

1:13:30 Is it the mother? Yeah, I don't know. Why are there otters in Crescent City? Sarah said. Why aren't there? What's the cutest thing that an Otter could do? I wrote. I think the otters were for Sarah. I have never thought about why there are otters in Crescent City. It just makes sense to me. I think the otters are for Sarah, have mentioned like otters in Otterland, but I think the otters are just for Sarah and her happiness and they made me happy too. You guys know how Otterland is spelled, right? Audio book listeners like you know how Aderlin is spelled. Anyway, ARLANI said Aderlin for a long time. All right, who or what is Fury Akstar? Is she the mercenary?

1:14:16 Sarah said. I don't know if I should confirm or deny. Am I ruining people's dreams? I feel, I feel like this is a denial on the mercenary, but Fury is definitely something I feel like this was her way of saying like, am I going to break people's hearts if I say that Fury Act Star is not the mercenary?

1:14:31 Yeah, I, I do not think Fury is the mercenary. I think this was some misdirection from Sarah's part. I think she was like, oh, I have an opportunity here to like throw in some, some confusing shit. I don't think Fury is the mercenary. Yeah, all right, last one that we're going to talk about what's going on with Twilight of the Gods, Sarah said.

1:14:50 I have 3 to 4 full books on my computer. I don't know if they'll ever see the light of day. Give us the buck, Sarah. Publish them, Sarah, give us the precious. I don't even know what to do with that one. I don't know what to do with that one. The idea that we can only have some of this lore. Did she say, OK, so she had three to four full books? Is that one other series or are these different series? Like, I don't know, but if you publish them, I'll read them. Sarah.

1:15:17 I think that we should probably expect, especially given Sarah's siege now, we should probably expect a Tolkien like situation in which there's just going to be a lot of unpublished work that we will just have to make peace with. I mean, she's got plenty of talk. She's 39. No, that's what I'm saying.

1:15:34 Like, there's going to be more, yeah, there's going to be more work that she just, like, writes and chooses not to put out to the world. And that's fine. She. I will read your grocery lists. School with me. I don't know. I don't know if we'll get Twilight of the Gods. I don't know if a Qatar sex is going to be the Masters crossover of our dreams. I don't know what her plan is, but I'm excited about all. Of it, I'm excited about all of it. I would be really excited if you just put out those books, though.

1:16:01 Cool. OK, what did I write? I wrote a bunch of reaction notes at the end, but here are my other notes 1. I need to read outside. I need to bind every book that I own with an A guitar cover because apparently she talks to people who read her books outside. Two. I'm curious whether you pick this up.

1:16:18 Maybe this is complete and utter bullshit, but the fact that the first two books of a guitar were written in two months and Akimath was rewritten, I feel like a guitar could have been intentional. Like maybe we are not ditching the great right Amarantha Hybrid commanders. Maybe they actually had meaning. That gave me a glimmer of hope because I kind of, like, tossed out.

1:16:38 Like, remember how there were supposed to be other hybrid commanders? Yeah. And we were just like, maybe she just decided to forget a guitar. I think it should come back. I think it could all come back. I mean, that's from the Irene Towers, right? Like every time, Irene. Towers. All right? Anything else?

1:16:54 No, I could talk about this interview for a very long time. I thought there were a lot of interesting little Nuggets and tidbits. I love that she was listening to the Robert Pattinson Batman soundtrack because was there ever a more perfectly coded as real man than Robert Pattinson as as Batman? So I definitely think we're getting some kind of as real story in the next series of books. I just don't know what it looks like. When she said that Cosmic Love was the Starfall song, I was like, holy.

1:17:25 That is like the most niche crossover of my unique interests like. Cosmic Love, Florence and the Akatar girlies. Which is so funny because if you listen to I know you've been listening to like the more recent Florence and the Machine, but it's all about female rage and catharsis. It's like so good.

1:17:45 Yeah, yeah, it's very good. I know. To the to the discorders. You guys should definitely add the latest Florence album to your Akamaf reading playlist. Yeah, one of the greats is basically written for Nesta as far as I'm concerned. Also Chains of Love and like a lot of the Wuthering Heights album.

1:18:03 Yeah. From Troy Lee XEXI also started listening to this artist who if anyone's going to know her, it's going to be the people who listen to this podcast probably but have you ever heard of Erin lecount OK she has the song called silver spoon. It's her most popular song that like came across my desk the most popular song and then I went to her Spotify profile. I started listening to her and I was like, how do I not know this woman?

1:18:30 Like how did I not know that she exists? She is like of the she's like of the Florence family, but she's like, if you like crossed Florence and Grimes, maybe. OK, I'm in. I really like her so like maybe start with silver spoon and if you don't like silver spoon then that's the hit. But I really like her other stuff too and that's a plug to everyone and I will replace the what I'm reading what? We're reading, yeah.

1:18:57 OK, Abby can't stay up past 9 so we need to call it. I'm dying. Baby's falling asleep before my eyes, so we got to go. So that's all from us today. That is our reaction episode to Sarah J Mass's big reveal on Call Her Daddy. What a week to be alive, guys. What a week to be Masters fans. Why I felt so happy just since this interview. I'm just so happy.

1:19:21 My brain stem is over stimulated. I don't know what to do with myself. So if you would be so kind as to like this episode, comment on it if you want to leave a comment in response to anything that we've said. Yeah, we want to hear your thoughts. Yeah. We love feedback, we love thoughts and follow our podcast if you don't on whatever channel you listen on, it would mean a lot. And we are on social media, as we mentioned at the halfway point, Dragons in the Details pod on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube.

1:19:52 We also have a website, dragonsinthedetails.com. There's a contact form there if you want to reach out. If you have a theory that you want us to take a look at, just feedback, comments, just want to say hi, doesn't really matter. We love to hear from you guys. It's the best. And that's all I got for you today.

1:20:09 Thanks for listening. Love you. Bye.