Onyx Storm: Dreams Deep Dive

0:17 I know I'm not an audio book person and you're not an audio book person, but Onyx Storm, the audio book just came out. The graphic audio book. I might have to listen. OK, wait, should we? OK listeners, you don't know this, but we have a road trip planned. Should we listen on our road trip? Yeah, we could listen on our road trip.

0:32 I don't know if I want to listen. There will be boys in the car. I. Don't know if I want to do that maybe? I don't know. I will say there's always those clips on Instagram with like the audio book and I will listen to it and I my God, it gives me the ick. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just like. Voice is like higher pitch than I expect it to be. No hate to the audio actor.

0:54 Like, you're phenomenal. You do an amazing job. Yeah. Like, it's not what he sounds like to me. And so I'm just like. I think audiobooks are so tough. I think we've talked about this because, like, when you're watching TV, it's like, I feel like it's different enough from what you picture that you're like, OK, like I recognize that this is a completely different thing from what I have in my head.

1:12 But when you're just listening to the audiobook and you've already given these characters, like voices and you've thought about how they say certain things, yeah, feel like it's a lot tougher. And like, if they don't, yeah. I mean, I was listening to. I think like when Satan says like, fuck, love, like when it's giving him a head.

1:29 And it was just so not the way that I. Don't want to hear that like you're just. So not the way that I pictured it. It was so much more like corny. And I was like, I don't know about that. I don't know. This also brings me back to, I know I've sent you a video of this creator that I follow on TikTok named Andrewski, and he only listens to audiobooks, and he listened to the entire Avatar series. And for a court of Silver Flames, he was like, I can't listen to this in public.

2:02 Yeah, innocent years. So. Yeah. And so true. Like, I can't. I just can't. I watched a clip last night and it was the scene. It was a very emotional scene in a court of silver flames, let's put it that way, kind of like the big scene. And I hated it. Again, it's not, it's me. It's not, I'm not saying it's bad.

2:21 I'm not saying anything like that. It's just me personally. And audiobooks like don't mash. But I am thinking about trying. I, I know I texted you about this, but I am genuinely thinking about trying powerless on audiobook because I haven't read it. So I don't have like a baseline for what it's supposed to sound like. Yeah, I might do that because I feel like I need a audio book. We're going to do a lot of driving. I'm going to do a lot.

2:43 Yeah, I'd be pro. I'd be probably more pro powerless audiobook than than Onyx Storm. But you don't even know it's coming. I have no idea. I don't know that we all don't know it's coming. Yeah, I guess. That's fair, That's fair. It's funny that you don't want Connor. Like, I'm begging Derek to read these books. I'm like.

3:00 I want him to read them. I don't want him to hear them. You can also, you hear me right now, I want you to move them. Yeah. Anyways, Anyways, I had a funny story I was about to tell you, but we can talk about the podcast. Since we're live, we might as well speak to our listeners. Hey, guys. Hi. Hi, everyone.

3:18 I'm Abby. I'm Ronnie. Am I doing the intro? Shit, I'm so unprepared. This is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes. You guys know that already. Or maybe you don't. If you don't, welcome. We're happy you're here. This season we will be focused on the Imperium series by Rebecca Yarrow's Fourth Wing Iron Flame. Onyx Storm.

3:45 If you have not finished our Onyx Storm, I was about to say Iron Storm again, which I do all the time. You're not finished Onyx Storm, stop, go no farther. This is a spoiler heavy podcast. Go finish it, come back, save these episodes. Listen to it when you're done. We have a lot of people who are doing that now, especially as we just referenced now that the audio book is out, I think a lot of people are going to listen to the audio book.

4:06 Hopefully you come here and listen to us after that listen to us yap crazy shit about this book that may or may not be based in reality. Other disclaimer due to the contents of this series, this podcast is rated R and should only be listened to by mature audiences. This is not a podcast for children.

4:23 Mostly because we curse. We very rarely talk about sex. Although I did talk about head not 5 minutes ago. So we run the game. First though. I do think that was the first reference, actually. Do you think that's one of the first times we talked about sex on this podcast? We. Could live without it for the rest of the podcast.

4:38 Is wild all right different spice tolerance levels I see just. Talking about it on a. Public podcast. I'll read it all day. All right, each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. This week we are doing a dream deep dive, so we are diving deep into all of the dreams. Well, I don't know about all the dreams, but we're diving deep into most of the dreams that occur in the Empyrean series. If you've read it, you know why we're doing that. We come with receipts.

5:09 We have quotes to back up any theory, so you can follow along if you're skeptical. As always, unless we come up with a theory on the fly and then we don't have receipts. And then you guys usually come in and tell us why we're wrong, and that's fine. We like it. We love it. This episode is focusing on Violet's dream, specifically the ones in which we know she's walking into other people's dreams.

5:29 That's your spoiler alert. That's your last spoiler alert. If you're still here and you don't want to be spoiled, goodbye. All right, so what's our fun question about? I didn't have one. We don't have one, Do you? OK, I will. Do you like, do you like this as a plot mechanism? I mean, dreams, there's kind of a common trope.

5:48 Do you like the way Rebecca handles dreams in this series? I have liked it the way that it's been presented so far, because as I reread them, I was like, oh, it's so interesting that I thought that this was Violet and it made sense as Violet. And now we know that it's Satan. And I still have questions about specific things in the dreams that I thought made more sense with Violet.

6:06 So I like it in that regard. I think I'm going to. I like it a lot more now that she knows that she can do stuff in them. Yeah, I agree. I think it's interesting too, because like as we were doing. So first of all, I'm just going to say right off the bat, I'm not at all convinced that I think one of these dreams has to be violent. I think it makes.

6:23 No sense. We're probably thinking of the same, yeah. There's a very specific line. I think it has to be violent. We'll get there. Well, I think it's somebody else. All right. Fascinating. Love it. I think it's very clear going back and reviewing this, usually dreams are like prophecies, right? Like usually it's like this is what will happen. And that doesn't seem to be what's happening in these series.

6:46 It's not, it's not this is what will happen because in some cases we know what's happened and what happened in the dream is not what happened in the battle of Bazgaya, for example. So it's, I think it's interest, an interesting line that she's drawing between what will happen and what kind of the dream Walker in this case, thinks will happen and how those differ or are similar. I, I like it.

7:09 I actually feel like she's kind of taking this trope and is reworking it and turning it on its head. So I'm a fan. Yeah, OK, She's doing a good job. I'm very curious to see where she goes with it. And I like, I just love when we learn that something has been happening under our noses the entire time. Like, I'm relieved that her second signet had manifested super early and we found out way later because it makes theorizing way more fun.

7:31 Oh my. God, this is this part. This book is such a gift for people like you. And it's like what? Lost was right. Hopefully it doesn't end the way Lost ended. But like, it's just such a fucking puzzle box. It's like every time I go back, I'm like, God, there's even more here to unpack. I mean, we just did history Part 2 and we walked away being from that, being like, OK, we still don't know anything. Still don't.

7:54 Yeah. I know and I feel like yesterday I was actually, so yesterday I was wrapping, trying to wrap history prep and I went down like 7 rabbit holes, none of which I brought up on the yeah I was just like this. I can't even coherently talk about this. So there's still more there. I went into AI, went into a deep rabbit hole about all the different languages that exist in this world. Who speaks what language?

8:17 What languages are like logosyllabic, as we talked about? Like, yeah, it's just got layers, man. Like chocolate cake? Yeah, like chocolate cake. All right, do we want to start with corrections, omissions and social media shout outs? I think we both have one big omission. Well, I don't know if omission is the right word for it.

8:37 We're doubling down. We're doubling that. So this is going to be kind of a two-part omission because Abby and I both looked into this after our last episode. So the last episode that you heard, I think is mailbag #2. And we had a moment where we were talking about Brennan not knowing old Lucerish and Violet thinking that he did.

8:56 And he's got a rune shaped scar on his hand. All sorts of weird stuff with that guy. And we were just like, what if Brennan's not Brennan and we? Thought we you this was your theory and I want to give you credit because I think it's a great theory. I think it's a great theory, but I went through and looked at every instance of Brennan across.

9:12 Well, probably not every instance I tried to to do my best, but it wasn't as thorough as I would have liked. I think there's cases for and against it. So when I when I first spoke this into the universe, it was actually supposed to be a precog corner theory. And then I would just decided it wasn't worth it.

9:27 And now I'm like, there's enough, but there's also plenty that's against it. So I want to talk through like both of the sides that I found and get your reactions and get whatever I missed. Literally have a list. I literally have a list that says pro Brennan anti Brennan. Yeah, yeah, I agree. OK, so context again, we are wondering whether Brennan is not Brennan.

9:48 The spark for that was a bunch of stuff, but the kind of nail in the coffin was Violet thought that he would be able to translate war external. He was not able to. There are some other minor things that we'll talk through. And so so the theory is that someone else is happening in Brennan's body. Basically, yes.

10:06 Brennan is human Wyvern or or something else? Oh yeah, that's how it came about. Is we were talking about Wyvern. Wyvern, yeah. We don't think he's human Wyvern and that he's just being mindlessly controlled by Ben, and we think actually someone is like inhabiting his. Body. Yeah. Is inhabiting his body, yes.

10:25 And the reason that we think that is we were talking about how Wyvern are created. We know that they're not hatched, so they're not their own form of life. We know that they're created and we know that Violet used the flesh of them to avoid being drained because it had repurposed. So we were like, what was the flesh of the Wyvern before it was Wyvern?

10:43 And now we're thinking about could could there be like some weird form of necromancy happening basically, OK, so reasons that Brennan probably is Brennan one. It is mentioned many, many times when Violet first learns that he's alive, maybe too many times that he's just so him smile, eyes. It's really him.

11:02 Such a Brennan move. So classic Brennan, like, there is very much a familiarity and, like, reassurance to Violet, who was seeing her brother alive for the first time in six years, who thought she thought was dead. She's like, OK, this is Brennan. Like everything he's doing right now is familiar. Like, I get it. It's Brennan.

11:20 That was a little bit of a double edged one for me because I was, like, you say it a lot of times. I'm convinced, like, you said his name, he's here. Like, yeah, there. Yeah, he's also super defensive of Violet. So Zaden brings Violet to him on the brink of death multiple times and he is pissed off, especially the second time. Like what did you do to my sister? And he is just like possessive and protective of his sisters in a very elder brotherly way.

11:47 Violet says many times that he looks just like dad. The the one, the most convincing one for me that he's Brennan is Marb is still alive. And he, we've seen him riding Marb. Like at first I was like, I kind of forget any mention of Marv. Like, did we actually? No, yeah, Marv is definitely in the picture because because Brennan, I mean, Brennan rides a couple of times, but he rides to a cow deer when they're trying to get the luminary and he rides to Baz Gaius. And yeah, Marv is in the.

12:15 Picture yeah, he's riding. He also recognized the bracelet on Mira as belonging to their grandmother, which I would argue like other people might recognize that if they know Grandma Niara, but he he specifically does recognize it. Side note, I think the knots on that bracelet are tearish knots, so we should talk about that at some point.

12:33 I think we should also talk about the bracelet that Violet gives Aiden that has a piece of pre or that's awesome shit. Brennan made it. Yeah. You had Brennan make it? Yes. Those were the things that I had that were like pretty clearly like Brennan is probably Brennan based on these things. Did you have any others? Immediately, almost on like page 2 of Iron Flame, he remembers the biscuits the cook made for them in Cal Deer. So that's like a pretty hardcore memory. He says he misses Kaori, so he knew who Kaori was. He knows Tearish.

13:05 Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of verbiage around him being Brennan, but I admit it was so I I didn't write down the exact line, but basically it was like when Brennan is getting Violet to eat the biscuits, he says, Oh yeah, isn't it just like the cook used to make for us in Cal Deer? And my eyebrows kind of raised at that. I'm like the lady doth protest a bit too much on that one. I feel like, like that's a little too like leading the horse to water.

13:30 Yeah, Right. Yeah, but it could be. I hate, I hate to say it, but it could be bad writing. But I don't know. Rebecca's a really good writer. I don't know. Once we had this idea in our head, I was a little like, Oh well, that is a bit of like, who actually talks that way? Yeah, It was like we were trying, the narrator was trying too hard to convince us that this guy is actually, yeah, Brennan.

13:50 Yeah, Yeah. So in that vein, the case is against. So Brennan does not remember the fables of the Baron. He thinks that Wyvern are hatched, not made, which you would think that he maybe would have like thought about that a little more deeply if he did know that at one point, given the battle that they're currently fighting and the fact that he knew about Wyvern even though the cadets did not like you.

14:10 I don't know. He just doesn't remember the fables of the Baron. And he remembers a lot of things, like he is the most like, if Violet is Asher protege #1, Brennan is Asher protege #2, right? So it's surprising that he's forgetting basic things. Seagal hates him. He does not know old Lucerish, not he doesn't remember old Lucerish.

14:29 Like he's not confident in it. He just straight up doesn't know it. And so I know that like he and him knowing Tearish was a case for him being Brennan, but like plenty of other people know Tearish and not many people know old Lucerish. He calls his mom General Sorengiel, which is not that crazy because he's like trying to separate himself from her, but he calls her General Sorengiel like rather effortlessly and is really harsh on her as well. Like he's like she can basically rot in hell for all I care like fuck her.

14:57 And even like Mira and Violet after they know everything Willis has done still like love her as their mom. Violet specifically says when Brennan is getting orders, she says in their place as a man, I barely recognize an officer. I don't know, Brennan may as well be a stranger. There's that. Deborah says do you not remember how battle brief works at one point?

15:18 Like he just forgets everything and just starts talking. And she's like, do you know how this goes? Like, you don't do that. So he forgets that. Brendan is also like seems to be really skilled in runes. When he's leaving the site where Mira almost bled out, he was like, I have a dozen runes I can leave.

15:35 Like I can leave rooms for you. But they didn't teach runes at Bezgayeth, which means he would have had to become an expert in the last five years. Unless we don't know something. I don't think that's that crazy. He's been in Tyran door but it's a good point. None of this is that crazy in my opinion. Brennan also basically confirms that he died. He said to Mira in chapter 39 of Iron Flame. Mira's like making some case for I don't remember what, and he says you weren't killed like I was killed. Yeah.

16:03 So he died, like fully died dead, which makes his resurrection make even less sense if we think about like the limits of power. And finally, this is also a week 1, but Brennan is said to be like a really good poison master by Mira, Zaden and Violet and I don't really feel like that's come into. Play.

16:20 We have seen no poison the way no poison. Right. That we expected it to. So kind of relatedly, maybe not. The last thing I have on my list is that Asher's chest pain started right after Brennan's death. Yeah. OK, so I have two additional things and then I have theories. I guess I want to talk. Through with you?

16:36 Yep. Other things that are new about Brennan, he has coppery streaks in his eyes. Violet makes a point to say the coppery streaks in his eyes are new, but we know Copper is pretty close to Red, so that is a little sketchy and that's a little bent encoded. The other thing, and I had to kind of go back and reread this a couple times to make sure I was following it correctly, He can speak Krovlish. When they go to Cordon, he starts speaking to the guards that have come out to meet them in Krovlish. I don't know if he's good at Krovlish, I don't know if he's fluent in it, but he is speaking Krovlish to them, which is not a language that Violet ever mentions knowing that he can speak.

17:13 Yeah, good point. Where did that come from? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Why? Wouldn't he have with them in place of Danish? Yeah. I mean, I believe I actually, I can look at my list. Violet doesn't speak it well. Jane speaks it well. But yeah, I thought, I thought it was interesting that he can speak Crow and there's been basically no, no made of that at all. So I thought the first group of arguments you made, I thought you were going for it.

17:36 Maybe he's Asher. Maybe Asher's in his body. Yeah. But he doesn't remember how the Wyvern are made. Yeah, and he would also know so much more. Like he would know old Lucerish. Yeah. If you were Asher. Yeah. So it's hard, Yeah. And then with the second round of things you were saying, I was like, oh, well, maybe he's fat because he seems to be so comfortable in Tierra Door. But then how would he know about the biscuits and Cal deer? I don't know.

18:02 It's tough to say. Well, I mean fun was nobility and so I don't think that anything like anything that happened at any important outposts is out of the realm of him knowing. The thing that I can't get around with the Fen theory, like Asher I could even see, but Fen like is not a rider and I just really doubt that Marv is like down to like unless it's like literally somebody inhabited his body and like combined with him somehow.

18:29 I mean, I feel like that's actually what it would have to be for this to be accurate. It's like it's running and another. It's running, but the life force of somebody else. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. But then like, like, I think we also have to think about like, who was there? So like Fenn was there, but then he got killed.

18:46 Naolan was there. Naolan was there, and we don't know anything about him. So like he could have been originally from tier and door. That's totally possible. And we've not been given any reason to not believe that. But I thought about this and I thought, well, and and this doesn't necessarily disprove it, but Brandon needs Sloan to save Mira. And if he had this, like I don't know if if he had part of Naola and if he had some siphoning abilities, would he have needed Sloan?

19:10 I don't, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, I guess if you're assuming that he absorbed the power of like the signet of that person too, then, yeah, he wouldn't have. I know. And then I also went down kind of a path to try and figure out whether Brennan, like, could have could have another signet of some type.

19:27 And the only thing I can think of is like, he is a brilliant tactician. Like, that's his bit. And so could he have something like Melgren and Arc where he can like, can see paths of battles so that he can, like, determine the best strategy? But I can have a long shot. Yeah. And I don't know who would have had it either. Yeah.

19:50 Except maybe fun. I don't know. I, yeah, I made, I made the same less useless you made basically. And I walked away being like, I don't, I don't think there's enough evidence one way or another. I like the idea, but it is like he's Brennan minus some parts of himself plus other parts of someone else.

20:08 Yeah, yeah. So don't know, Brendan is a fishy topic and he's got an orange dragon and we know how people feel about orange Dragons. Yeah, but Imogen has an orange dragon and she breaks bad. I'm going to fucking revolt. One other like throwaway comment, but it feels like not a throwaway comment. Do you remember when Lilith told Violet that she was all that was left of Asher? Yeah.

20:30 And Violet says that's not true. Yeah. She, well she specifically was like Mira has his laughter and his warmth. Like why would Lilith say Violet's all that left that's left of Asher? I don't know, food for thought, OK? Because Lilith might be a stone cold bitch, I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Anyways, in conclusion on is Brennan, Brennan, we don't know. We don't know.

20:54 We're not sure we had a good time looking into it. There's enough to look into. I'll say that. Like there's something going on with that man. There's definitely as as many other people have concluded, something is up with Brennan. As just about everybody who's read these books that's concluded, you heard it here first. Something's up with.

21:11 Brennan Now we dive in. All right, So I think the way this is going to go is we're just going to read the full text of the dreams, which I apologize for. I know that's not always the best listening experience, but I think it's what we have to do for this one. And then we're going to get into kind of notes and questions.

21:27 Does that work for you, Ron? Yes. All right, so I guess I'll start. So this is the first dream. I should mention that the actual first dream in this book is the book. That is the dream that Violet has in Fourth Wing when she's in the archives with Asher. I do have it here. I have notes on it, but I don't know that we're going to cover it. I didn't find anything super relevant, and that's obviously before and has started channeling, so I don't think it's a dream walking dream, but there is that dream, there's stuff there.

21:54 Maybe we'll talk about it at the end, but this is the first dream in Iron Flame that we later find out is a candidate for dream walking. So I guess I'm just gonna read all this text right now. Let's see how this goes, right? Faster. I have to run. Faster. Feel. Fear holds my throat shut as a tidal wave of death chases me across the sunburn field to where Taryn waits, his back turned. Wind.

22:17 The wind roars around me, stealing every other sound, even my own heartbeat. Taryn's going to die, and he doesn't even see it coming for him. Gold flickers near the tip of his wing. God's no. And Dharna. She's here. She shouldn't be here. The wave nips at my heels, transforming the ground beneath my feet into an ash and desiccated wasteland.

22:34 There's nowhere to run, Rider. A hooded figure steps into my path out of nowhere. Raising one arm, I'm yanked off my feet by an unseen force and lifted into the air, completely immobilized. The wave of death halts and the wind falls silent, as if he stopped time. He shifts his staff to the other hand, then pulls back the thick maroon hood of his floor length robes with gnarled fingers, revealing the white of his scalp under his slicked back thinning hair. Shadows mark the gaunt hollows of his cheekbones on an eerily youthful face, and his lips are cracked and dry, just like the land behind me.

23:06 But it's his, his red rimmed eyes, the distended veins spider webbing across his temples and cheeks that have me fighting to open my mouth, straining to scream. Venon, so disappointing. He lectures as if he's my sage and not the teacher of the dark wheel wielder I killed on Terence back. All of that power at your fingertips and yet you insist on fleeing over and over, using the same failed tactics and expecting what?

23:27 He tilts his head to the side to escape. My ribs tighten around my lungs as tire takes hold and I force a garbled sound through my throat, but it does nothing to warn Taryn and Dharna. There is no though escaping me, Rider. He whispers, his finger ghosting over my cheek but not quite touching. Fight me and die or join me and live beyond the ages.

23:43 But you will never escape me. Not when I've waited centuries for someone with your power. Fuck you. It comes out as a whisper, but I mean it with every bone in my body. Death it is. He looks so disappointed as he lowers his hand. Wind howls as I fall to the ground. A scream tears through my body as a wave of agony rolls over my skin and bones, leaching the very essence of my energy.

24:03 Until that's all I wrote down. Is there more at the end there? I think that's the end. She she then wakes up. She wakes up, Yeah, Then she wakes up all right. I guess to start before the stream, Violet is talking to Eric and finds out that he knows about the Venom and Zaden is not at Pesky. Right before this right after the stream, she suddenly was Zaden who was walking her to the Peskyeth Forge. And so if like Zaden's not sleeping on flights right? Like when he's flying to this guy, he is not asleep, he's riding Seagal probably.

24:35 And so this might be a candidate in which she was not with him when the. Sleep in the saddle. Violet sleeps in her saddle. Yeah, I guess that maybe he's dreaming while he's asleep on Seagal. I don't know. Yeah, but we know. We're told this can happen. Like when Violet figures it all out. We're told that they've been miles apart before when she's found.

24:54 Yes, they've definitely been miles apart, but I thought you were leading towards and Zaden wasn't asleep when this dream happened, but I think he could have. I think he probably was like, I think this was probably like, if I'm trying to put time against this dream, I think it's more likely aligned with the time before the dream than the time after, which is like when Zaden was wherever he was Samara or something. So I mean, Taryn and and Dharna are there. And when I was first reading these dreams, I was like, oh, maybe like, Taryn is just getting confused with Segal, but.

25:23 And Dharna's pretty not mistakable, right? So like, why are Taryn and Andarna in Zayn's dreams? I think the easiest explanation is they're the symbolism of Violet being there wherever they are. Violet is. Maybe he's trying to protect Violet. But I think it's interesting, right? Like, we don't really see Seagal in this dream. Yeah.

25:42 Seagal is not in any of these dreams. Yeah, yeah, Seagal is just missing. Yeah, I also think it's interesting that the the quote, the wave of death halts and the windfalls silent as if he stopped time. Like is Bert, the stage stopping time is now. Coming back, right. So does Bert right? Does Berwyn have the ability to stop time too? Or is this just something he can do in dreams? Like because we know he has power of the dreams. Like basically I see it as an inception scenario where he is creating these these dreams, these realities for Zadan and then Zadan just kind of walks right into them. Yeah, I know.

26:16 Is that back on on the table? Yeah, I don't know, Maybe I might have something to do with my precar corner theory. Maybe interesting. And then the other piece that I took note of was fight me and die or join me and live beyond the ages. We know that then and especially from his description, right? He's got a white scalp and slicked back thinning hair, but his skin is youthful.

26:35 He has a youthful face. So he seems, I don't know how to interpret like thinning hair in this scenario. Like does that mean that he was old when he turned? And like I as the for the eerily youthful face, I thought he was not old when he turned. I thought so too, but theophany has a full. Theophany has a full head of hair. It is silver though, so we don't know if she would have like been going Gray.

26:57 Yeah, true. Maybe. And then the quote, I've waited centuries for someone with your power. I think when we first read that for the first time, I was like, they've been waiting for Violet's power. That makes a lot of sense because Violet has this like kind of unique signet. We know that shadow wielding is particularly powerful, but like, why have they been waiting on it?

27:16 Yeah, I, I had a couple. I I don't have an answer to that one, but I do think we, and I think we talked about this in our Zeidan episode too, right? They've been waiting for centuries with some for someone with that power. I have a couple notes. Fight me and die or join me and live beyond the ages. But you will never escape me.

27:30 Not when I've waited centuries for someone with your power. OK, so waited centuries for someone with your power kind of disproves our Berwyn is Grandpa Reorson theory, right? Like if Berwyn has been alive for centuries. However, we also like hypothesize there's kind of a hive mind thing going on with the venom.

27:49 So like, it might not be that Berwyn himself has been waiting centuries. It might be that the venom have been waiting centuries. And he's just kind of part of that hive mind situation, which we should have thought about with our Brennan episode, with our with what we were just talking about with Brennan. Could Brennan be part of a hive mind now? But so maybe it disproves it.

28:08 Maybe he's not Grandpa Reorson. I've seen people use that quote to disprove that he's Naolan. I still think it could be that, but I still think he could be grandpa. We are. So I'm still pretty sold on that. But I think that I think that bears thinking about. The other thing about this quote that I also thought was interesting was he said fight me and die or join me. Like he's saying, I've waited centuries for someone with your power, but I'm OK with you dying. And like, why does that make any sense? And that's referenced multiple times. I think in a later dream he's going to say like. Yeah.

28:40 Like the one who watches thinks we should just kill you. So I was thinking about this and we've talked about how it seems like the Vennon higher ups can have multiple signets and one of our listeners I have I have kind of two theories on this. One of our listeners named Jess DM me and she, it's kind of a long quote, but I'll read it. I'm loving this podcast and only on episode 5 on Vennon. So you guys may have covered this elsewhere, but you guys were talking about how Vennon recruits Cher powers. To me, it sounds like an MLN scheme basically, right? So and issues have to invest to get started channel and then the sages get the powers of the Asians below them once they are recruited under them.

29:17 This explains why we didn't see fire wielding after resin. The fire wielder for that sage was one of the men and that was killed right? So in wrestling we see that the that Berwyn can like haul throw balls of fire at people and that never comes back. Then the mavens get the powers of their It comes back in Suniva.

29:32 Don't they burn Suniva? I guess I just assumed that was the Y burn maybe? OK then the mavens get the powers of their respected sages and then the top bend and get everyone's powers. It would gate keep the best powers for the highest ranked while also allowing people in the company to expand their powers and ensure required level of recruitment. So basically that's one theory.

29:50 It's basically an MLM scheme. When you when you recruit someone, you get their powers. So that would make sense for the join me part, but for the die part, I'm like, OK, is the other option here that then in somehow absorb the signets of everyone they kill? Like is that how Vennon are getting sigmets? Because we also know that signets are supposed to be a unique gift, but unique combination of the dragon and the rider.

30:15 And with the Vennon there's no dragon. So how does it make sense they have signets? Like that doesn't really make sense. But is it for every basically rider that they kill, they get they absorb that person sick? Yeah. Is that why we get this reference multiple times? Like, like kill. I'm either going to kill you or you're going to join me. Yeah, I.

30:34 Don't know. It's an it's an interesting thought. I guess I'm trying to think of where that hasn't proven true. Like Jack seems to be able to do things right like throw out Shields, but who is Jack killed? I mean, it kind of doesn't work with the balance though. Yeah, totally ruins the balance. It ruins the balance.

30:52 So maybe not so I bet. I just don't know why they're OK with killing these people when they've waited centuries for someone with their power. But maybe it's just, well, better for you to be dead than for my enemy to have. You right? Maybe. Yeah, Interesting. All right, other notes I had here in this stream, it seems like Berwin is unwilling or unable to touch Zaden. He gets close, but he doesn't.

31:14 He gets close, but he won't touch him. The other thing is, and This is why I was talking about the dreams are not necessarily the future. Berwyn is wearing a maroon robe in this dream at Baz Gaiath, which is when I think this is supposed to be taking place, is the battle of Baz Gaiath, right? He's wearing a blue robe.

31:31 So it's not like a one to one match. It's not like, OK, this is exactly what's going to happen. This is like Berwyn creating a reality for Zaid and saying this is what I want you to think is going to happen. The other thing I had here is the last sentence. So a scream tears through my body as a wave of agony rolls over my skin and bones, leaching the very essence of my energy.

31:52 So I think this is interesting because this is kind of the first account that we have of what it feels like to be drained. Like Dane gets drained, but we don't know what it feels like. We're him now. We know what it feels like. And once again, this is different than what Violet talks about on the mat with Jack, right? Like, So what actually says I scream as I'm shaking by an internal force.

32:11 I don't understand. And as though he's forcing his own power into my body, shocking me with 1000 strings of vibrating energy with this, it's leaching the very essence of my energy. So they're opposites. Yeah. So I think that's just. Like the draining is what wakes him up. And I think there's several dreams in which, like, dying is the conclusion of the dream. Yeah.

32:33 Not actually killing the dreamer. So yeah. That's true. So did Berwyn kill Asher? Yeah. In the sleep? I don't know but. Yeah, we should keep going cuz there's more. Well the other thing I wanted to talk about, this also disproves my theory that you had to have channeled for Berwyn to talk to you in dreams because Zaden has not channeled at this point.

32:54 This is before best guy right? So that proved I have been disproven. So I don't know why Berwyn is not over here talking to everyone in dreams. And maybe he is maybe violets just only seeing because they're bonded and he's easy to walk into. All right. Do you want me to read the next one or you want to read the next one so this is the next one.

33:11 Bold choice to move so far from what you. Perceive is sorry before we start reading this is chapter 37 now. Yeah, it's chapter 37. Throat working. I struggle to relax, to calm my heart and change my breathing in hopes of waking myself up. But it's only my mind that knows this isn't real. My body is very much locked into the illusion.

33:28 You can only hunt me to the wards. I quote. I croak. Yet you sleep beyond them. A grotesque smile tilts his crack mouth, and the longest night has yet to pass. He reaches for a poison tip dagger and then he wakes up. So seems to be the safety of the wards #1 like they know that the words are not working. Mac has told us there could be venom creeping around in Bezgayeth, and it frankly wasn't that hard to alter the word stone so that Flyers could channel. Like right.

33:55 Well, this is before. This is before the eration Ward Stone has been. I know, I'm more saying like the possibility of the ward stone being altered such that then and can completely and totally exist behind them. I feel like we know that's possible now. Totally possible. I feel like we also learned about potentially 2 new signets that Berwyn has in the stream.

34:16 First he reads her mind or. He reads his. Mind, yeah, Satan's mind, yeah. It's like I'm trapped in this fucking nightmare again in his head. And Berwyn responds, Of course, again, you will never be free of me. And they don't have a bond yet at this point. I mean, maybe they do because Berwyn's like. But Dayton hasn't channeled.

34:33 Yeah. But I was thinking about this. It's kind of inherent in the in the dream walking. I think that you are reading that person's mind, right? Like you are just walking around in their mind. So like, I think it kind of makes sense that he can send Satan's thoughts within this dream. I agree with that. What's the other one?

34:50 The other one is a little bit of a rogue one, but he says the longest night has yet to pass and I'm wondering if he's talking about the 12 hours that they went missing at the end of Onyx Storm. The only really long night that I can think of in this series is at the end of Onyx Storm, where they get back at 3:00 in the morning, literally.

35:09 The Battle of Baz Gaia happens on the winter solstice, so that's what I assumed this was about. But I like this. Let's let's dive into this one. Yeah, maybe it's winter solstice, but either way, like, isn't that potentially precognitive either way? Well, if it's winter solstice, then we know that Bourbon was planning to attack that night. Yeah, but this is interesting because I think this so I so I had this note in a couple of these dreams, like where are they?

35:37 Where is this sunburned fields? Because it's not at Baz Gaya. And he describes A sunburned field and frozen ground, right? So like the where of it is very weird. So I don't know if it's weird because it's a dream and things are weird and dreams or if this is this is not where it was. I don't know what's going on. But we know that Melgren thinks that the Vennon are going to attack Samara on a solstice.

35:57 And what actually happens is they go to Baz Gaya, right? So maybe he's showing him Samara here thinking that, thinking that they will go to Samara. But yeah, I just assumed that was, hey, we're planning to attack on the longest night and I'm giving you a little clue or Rebecca's giving us a little clue that this will happen on on Solstice.

36:15 Maybe. Interesting. So the sunburn field. When does Dreethus actually come into play? Not till. The not till audit storm. Yeah. So OK. And Dreeth is he's dreaming about a green meta all of Iron Flame it's about. It's the sunburned field. It's the. Sunburnfield, yeah, he's not at Basgayeth, as far as I can tell.

36:35 But there is a spot as at Basgayeth where all of this happens. Like Brandon wanted to go with him to mend the. Yeah, by the river. By the river. Yeah, but that's by the river. OK. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where it was to take place. Sunburned, frozen, it's got to be north and N is just loose.

36:54 I don't know, it seems almost impossible to me actually. Like if you either have a dry, arid, sunburned field or you have frozen ground, right? Maybe it's the Baron. It's a thing about if it was like referencing Lilith somehow, because we know Lilith can bring the temperature down. Interesting. OK.

37:11 I had a note about you will never be free of me. I will hunt you to the ends of the continent and beyond, right? And I went back to this what we were referencing before the study about Benin in the 1st 24 hours of removal from source magic. The subject in a some presented is even tempered. Both withdrawal quickly revealed the subjects true nature requiring the subjects and media transfer to stage two of the study results can be found with group 33B under the category death by fire and subsequently group 46 C under the category death by poisons.

37:41 Then and can't be away from magic is what this study is concluding right, because 24 hours removal from the source magic. How is Berwyn going to pursue them beyond the continent when we've been told that there's only magic on the continent, right. We were being lied to again, I think. Or it's a throwaway line, I don't know.

38:00 Or it's the water Or it's the water. Yeah. All right. And my other notes on this one. My body is very much locked into the illusion. We're getting dream sex, guys. That's sorry. Sorry. We're talking about sex again, right. Like we're getting dreams sex in the next. Book, It's going to happen, OK. Yeah.

38:19 And then I had just a note on the longest night has yet to path, so that's what I had for that one. Just a quick before and after check. So before the dream they had arrived in Arisha with a bunch of Dragons and riders from Bisgaiath. And after the dream Violet and Zayn wake up in Arisha together.

38:34 So they are together for this. One, they are together for this one. Yeah. All right. This next one, I think, is very interesting. I'm suspended again over that sunburn field, the death wave, a heartbeat from overtaking me once the Sage releases me from his hold. And he will, he does, every time.

38:50 I recognize the scenario for what it is now, a recurring nightmare. Yet I'm still held powerless, still too slow to reach Terran, still can't force my consciousness to snap me awake. I grow weary of this. Now. Wields. The Sage whispers, his robes purple. Tonight, group free, show me the power you use to slay our forces above the trading post Prove me right, that you are a weapon worth watching, worth retrieving.

39:11 His hand hovers over mine, but doesn't touch me. The one who watched thinks you'll never yield, thinks that we should kill you before you grow into your full abilities. My stomach turns, my mouth watering with nausea as the Bony hand drifts upwards, ozzing at my neck. Usually, jealousy always sways the tongue of young wielders.

39:27 He drags a single long fingernail down my throat, exposing in a span an expansive tan arm under his robes, and I twitch, fear accelerating my heartbeat. I force my mouth to open, but no sound comes out. Touching me is new. Touching me is terrifying. The rest turn for power. He whispers. It's coming so close I can smell a hint of something sweet on his breath. But you will come for something much more dangerous, much more volatile.

39:50 He wraps his hand around my throat loosely. I managed to shake my head in denial. You will. His dark eyelash less, eyes narrow and the jagged fingernails slice into my skin with an all too real bite of pain. You'll tear down the wards yourself when the time comes. The temperature plummets and my next exhale is visible in the frozen air. I blink and snow covers the ground. The only warmth is a quickly.

40:11 Cooling trickle along my neck and you won't do it for something as tray as power or as easily satiable as greed. He promises in a whisper. But for the most illogical of mortal emotions. Love or you'll die. You both will. He flicks his wrist and a bone jarring crack tears me from my sleep. All right, what do you want to talk about this one?

40:28 Well, the first note I took is show me the power you used to take down our forces above the trading post. Again, brilliant writing like works for both Violet and Zayden. So at this point I am still none the wiser the first time I'm reading this again with we should kill you before you grow into your full abilities.

40:45 What hat? Like what do you get out of killing them if anything? Like are you just avoiding his wrath if he's on the non venom side? I don't know. The sage touches him in this stream for the first time, which is huge right? Like this. Like this is the first time we're told like OK you can make contact.

41:05 You can actually do something in the stream again, the dream sex, but also like other implications, the reason that I think this still is not to the point where we're going to see dream deaths yet is because he does kill him in the stream and Zayden just wakes up like it's all fun. The most the actually, I'm curious what you think the most interesting line of the stream is.

41:25 For me, it's you'll tear down the words yourself when the time comes, and I think that's interesting because I don't think it's happened yet. OK, so I disagree with your first point. Show me the power you used to slay our forces above the trading post. I have read this like 3 Times Now. I don't think Zaden kills a single Wyvern like in resin the way that Violet does right? Like I don't think I actually think this is Violet's dream. I don't think this is.

41:48 I think this is Violet's dream. I think that might be why Berwyn can touch her now, because just for whatever reason, she's also walking right, Which maybe that means we're not getting dream sex. That would suck. But yeah, Zaden doesn't. Zaden doesn't slay the Wyvern in Ressa. Not really. It's Violet, Right. So show me the power you used to slay our forces above the trading post.

42:10 This could be the lightning wielding. Could be the time stopping too. Yeah, like that also happens. What if actually the whole time they've just been after time stopping? Because we know Berwyn is referencing it in this dream. Whether or not he can actually do it, we don't know. But that is the power that keeps coming back in this dream. But if, if I like this a lot.

42:30 But if that's the case, so much is about to open up here. This is also the dream in which he says you'll turn for love. And you'll tear down the wards yourself. And you'll tear down the wards yourself. So is this again, like is Violet going to turn and tear down the wards and that just hasn't happened yet?

42:45 I don't know. I don't know. But yes, either way you'll tear, you'll tear down the wards yourself. Has not happened. Has not happened. Has not happened. Doesn't mean it will happen because we know that some things in these dreams don't happen, Right. Right. So I just really don't. I just I've I've like, bashed my head against the wall in this one. I just don't think this is Aiden's dream. I know she says.

43:06 And I went back and looked because I'm like, oh, no, there's this line about every every dream is Aiden's dream. But what if I actually says is every dream I remember. Yeah. Is Aiden's dream. Yeah. Now, of course, there's the argument to be made that she's writing this book, so obviously she remembers the stream. I don't know.

43:21 But it's not Ziden slaying the Wyvern above the trading post. It's definitely Violet. Yeah. I don't know. This is also where we get the reference of the one who watched. I know some of you have reached out and say what are you talking about? The one who watched this is the one who watched. So we don't know who this venom is, but we know someone was watching.

43:38 Whether they were there physically or they were watching through like a little crystal ball thing or it's a signet, we don't know. Yeah, but if this is so, I'm just going to keep pulling this thread. So if this is Violet's dream, then does this still need to be Berwyn? Like if this is a real dream, one like, do we know for sure that Berwyn is the one who's there? This is also the tan arm dream.

43:59 We were basing this off of being Zadan's dream, and this was our kind of main ammo, that Berwyn is Grandpa Ryerson. But if this is Violet's dream, is that Zadan? I don't think so, but if this is Violet's dream then that becomes a possibility. Wait, you think this is Zadan? Well I'm just saying like that being Berwyn is predicated on the fact that Zadan is the POV, so it cannot be Zadan.

44:22 If it's Violets then does it need to be Berwyn or can it actually Zadan? I don't think so because of what the sage actually says. Right? Like you'll turn for love. It's more dangerous. It's the most illogical of mortal emotions. Kills her. Yeah, and it's also like, I grow weary of this now. Wield like Zadan is intimately familiar with Violet's power. I don't know.

44:43 That's a good question. I mean, Rebecca has said that there's only one other person who can teach Violet how to dream walk, so I assume that Berwyn is the only other dream Walker. Yeah, I guess my final rebuttal for like, maybe this is actually actually still Satan's dream is before the dream there at Rhiannon's sister's house, Satan's not there, but after the dream, she does wake up next to Satan. Yeah, I'm not convinced by that.

45:05 Here's another argument that it's actually Viola's dream. So she she says the temperature plummets. There's been frost on the ground in the other dreams, but I don't think it's specifically said the temperature is plummets. The same thing happens in Lilith's office at the beginning of Fourth Way when Mira brings up Brennan.

45:21 Violet says the temperature plummets. Like like courtesy of my mother's storm wielding cygnet. So like, it's a specific call back to Lilith. It's a specific call back to something that has happened in Violet's mind, but not necessarily in Zaden's mind. And if Berwin is all up in here, walking around Violet's mind like he would have access to that memory.

45:39 Yeah, true. OK. So maybe. So this is the one. I'm not convinced I'm interested in this one. I thought. You OK? All right? Interesting. This is the one I thought. Yeah, I think one more point on this stream though, So, right, I think the next time we see the Sage after the stream is when the Sage Berwyn.

45:58 I keep calling on the Sage because we're never actually told this is Berwyn. I just want to make that clear. OK, that's fair. The sage from the dreams brings his Wyvern to test the wards, and he watches them die, and then he goes away. Well, we're told it's the same sage as from resin. Yeah, which would mean that it's, it should be Berwyn. I'm just clarifying, but it's.

46:20 Never. Yes. It's never immediately said. They never say. Oh, our friend Berwyn here. Yeah. And then between this dream and Marin's dream in Iron Flame chapter 40, Violet says if I didn't feel him, my swollen lips and every sore muscle in my body, I almost think I dreamed him coming back yesterday. I think that's maybe just like fun foreshadowing. But also, I don't know, like, what are the limits of the stream walking?

46:45 Like, can you go places? I don't know. And then in Iron Flame chapter 42, this is when Violet asks Taran. And you already brought this up. Do you see my dreams? And Taran basically says he has better things to do. And it's like, if a dream bothers you, leave it. Stop allowing yourself to be tortured like a hatchling and wake yourself like an adult.

47:02 And so again, it's not a no and it's almost, it's almost tricky wording by Taryn because it's like he knows he's like, wake yourself up. Yeah, right. That's why I'm calling fucking bullshit on. He says wake yourself up, right? Like, and she's like, I'm about to say that's not how dreams work for humans.

47:19 And he's like, oh, I know nothing about this. Like I don't really believe him. And to be fair though like Taryn has yelled at Violet to wake up before. Like we know that Violet almost got killed while she was asleep and he was like wake the fuck up. Right, right. OK, but that's before this signet manifests. Correct.

47:37 Yeah. So I'm saying it does barely need to. Him saying wake yourself up is not like he necessarily knew about dream walking because he has said wake yourself. Up before, but he woke her up so he. Yeah, OK. I think it's also worth noting here that Zayden says there's a conversation they have after Violet realizes she can dreamwalk where he says my signet doesn't work on Dragons, my intensic signet doesn't work on Dragons, so yours probably doesn't either. But we have that line.

48:05 And fourth thing that we keep going back to where Terence says don't try to read me human, right. So is Zayden lying about that? And can Violet potentially dreamwalk in Dragon's dreams? In which case all of Terence secrets are not safe. Which good, because there are many and I want to know them, yeah.

48:24 OK. All right. So that is the conclusion of our iron flame. Dream Yep. So that all happened before Zaden ever channels. Or Zaden ever channels yes. So Berwyn can walk into anyones dreams it seems, which means Violet can walk into anyones dreams which is kind of terrifying. Any other like big conclusions from that? Not from the Iron Flame dreams, not. From the iron flame dreams of crap. All right, so the first dream we get in Onyx Storm is the Marin dream.

48:51 I'm just gonna kind of paraphrase it. Paraphrase it. So basically we find out that she this is a dream from the fall of Cliff Spain Academy. She is desperately searching for a picture of her parents. In this dream, the building is literally on fire. There's blue flames, so we know that's a why burn.

49:10 At one point, she knocks over a mirror. She's desperately trying to find this picture. She starts digging through a trunk at the end of her bed. The trunk is described as endless. So that tells you there's some dream logic going on here. Cat shows up and Marin is like it Kat says we have to go and Marin says I need to find this you go save yourself.

49:29 This is the you're the future queen of tear of Terendor like I'll take you he'll take you back. I know he will. This is that Dream does end up finding the picture of her parents, but then it turns into her family on. Fire in front of her and they burn. Yeah, and and after Zaden and Violet realized So what we so this is the first dream in Onyx Storm. But after Zaden and Violet realized that Violet has been mind walking, she goes and talks to Marin. She finds out the picture is still there and she's like, I can't be it can't it can't be the same because the picture was destroyed, not realizing that it was a dream, right. So, and that's, Marin says.

50:04 It used to be my worst nightmare that it was on fire. Yeah, right. So I think she also recognizes it and she's like, oh shit, I've seen. Yeah, she recognizes and she recognizes Marin's brothers when they go save them. And the context of where that dream took place, they were all the whole squad was sleeping in Zaden's old room at Samara, and Violet wakes up in that same room. He tells me about the dream and Riddick is like, you guys need to shut up.

50:30 Yeah, I guess reactions to that. I think that one's super straightforward, honestly. To me, that dream existed and was put in there to tell us two things. One, that it's not a bond thing that she can walk into people's dreams who are not just Satan. And two, that she, unless she consciously decides not to, feels she like truly can embody the exact feelings and emotions of the dreamer.

50:52 Like she felt all of those things for Cat and thought those things for Cat despite obviously being Violet and not married. Yeah, that's a great point. She's absolutely fully inhabiting the feelings of a person who's dreaming. And there's a lot of instances, instances here. I don't remember if it happens in Iron Flame, but in Onyx Storm, this is kind of the first one she says.

51:15 I can't find it. I try to yell, but it comes out as merely silent. Why can't I scream? But then Marin is obviously talking to Kat, right? So why can't she scream? But Marin can talk to Kat? I think this is the first instance of the meddling that Zaden references. So this is something Violet on her own wants to say, but because she doesn't realize she's dream walking, she can't say it yet.

51:37 She can't talk. She doesn't have that awareness. The only other note I had in here is that Marin breaks a mirror. We know that Arik receives a broken mirror on the Isle of Sahilna. So I'm wondering, is this a tie to luck or perhaps a foreshadowing of an Arik Marin romance? I don't know. It would be fun and I'd be way better with that than a cat. I'm so I something's broken inside me that I'm kind of like, I want Kat to have her happy ending. With Kat having happy ending, not with arc. Not with ARC.

52:08 Maybe she can change Holden. Yeah. Maybe that would. I think that would be more fitting. I'm she's going to end up with a choir though honestly, I. Don't know, I think it would be I I feel like she might end up with arc like it would unify, unite the the kingdoms. Yeah, we go down this rabbit hole every time. We don't need to talk about that again. It's weird that I'm so invested in it. I don't understand why.

52:29 Anyways, that's really all I had on that dream. Yeah, not not too much to analyze on that dream, but a fun one nonetheless. All right, so we have our next Onyx Storm dream. I don't have the chapter number. Chapter 45. Thank you. I hang in the air, suspended by an invisible hand around my throat as the as lightning strikes in the distance, fear pumps through my veins. But the harder I fight, the narrower my windpipe becomes, the harder it is to draw breath.

52:53 Quit fighting it, the sage orders. Quit fighting me. You're dead. This isn't real. Repeat the phrases mentally, when my lips refuse to form the words. This is only a nightmare. A very visceral, terrifying nightmare. The fight drains out of me and I fall to the ground before him, hitting my knees and gasping for charred air. And Dharna screams, bellowing with rage and pain, and my head snaps towards the ridgeline, towards the storm. Blue Flyer fire likes up the hillside, reaching for the city walls of Dreythus, devouring the fleeing civilians in its past. Such a motion.

53:23 The sage tisks, crouching down in front of me. Don't worry, it will feed in time. Fuck you. I lunge forward, only to be shoved back to my knees by an invisible force. I'll allow you to help her this time. The sage promises, pushing his robes up to the length of his tanned arms. OK, so tanned arms again.

53:38 So that's pretty good. Just submit, come to me except for you where you belong, and you'll find a freedom like no other. And if I don't? I asked, playing into the dream. Then you'll find I have ways of. You'll find I have ways to bring you to heel. The sage draws a sword from his robes, and the next flash of lightning reflects in the emeralds adorning atop of the hill. Wisps of silver hair blow in the breeze at the edge of my vision, and the Sword of Tyrion door rushes towards my chest. Wake.

54:04 I scream, but my mouth won't work. The end. So this is the one that I was questioning, whether it's actually Zayden's dream all. Right, let's talk about it width. Of silver hair blow in the breeze at the edge of my vision. To me, one of two things has to be happening here. Maybe one of three, but the third is very unlikely. 1 Is this is Violet's dream? And the silver?

54:25 Hair is hers and the silver hair is hers. Yep. OK, and that also, like you said, tanned arms. That's good. But like if that's Violet's dream then that might not be good. We'll tell you, the first time I read this dream, I absolutely thought this was Zeta. I thought this was Zaden being the Sage.

54:38 I thought this was like a future. Dream Yeah 2 is at the very end of this dream, and we kind of feel it, right. Violet is actually separating herself from Zaden because she realizes there is it. You're dead. This isn't real. I repeat the phrases mentally when my lips refuse to form the word. So she's like she is clawing at like the bars of her enclosure within Satan's body basically like Wake this isn't real. So maybe she's separating from Zaden like right at the end of the stream and that's why the silver wisps appear. And 3rd I think it's unlikely, but third isn't theophony. Yeah, so I don't know.

55:15 She has known its dreams before. It's realizing that it's other people's dreams is what we. Were separate, yeah. Because she says. Could the silver wisps be? OK, so I wrote, wisp of silver hair blowing the breeze at the edge of my vision. OK, who do we know with silver hair 1, Violet 2. Theophany 3 Priestess from Umbria. Could be found, yeah.

55:34 It's weird. It's weird, right? Because they, they blatantly say there's lightning striking in the distance. They blatantly say they're at Dreyfus, right? So like, that to me means like this is Violet off in the distance fighting theophany. But we know that the dreams are not, they're not precog.

55:53 They're not reflective of reality necessarily. Yeah, and also like Theophany could be causing that entire storm by herself, that Violet could be there and Theophany could be over there and that still checks out. Same with vice versa. That's. True. I don't know. I like, I'd like I said when I first read this dream, I was like, oh, this is this is the future dream.

56:13 This is what Zayden's going to become, especially because he has the Sword of Tyran Door, Right. And Zayden is the last person to have the Sword of Tyran Door. We've talked about how if this is Berwyn, OK, maybe he's Grandpa Rearson. He wants the Sword of Tyran Door. Yeah. And and we know that Berwyn can create dream markers.

56:30 Can't. We'll get this into this later with dream markers can create weapons in their own dreams, right. So, like, he can, it's it's a dream. It's not real. He can just create the sort of Kieran Door. Right. Yeah, I want to say like I am in the camp of this is Aidan's dream. But I do think like we have to explain the silver wisps.

56:47 The silver wisps do not make sense unless. He also. Unless he gets dedicated. You've never seen a male dedicated to Dune? No, there are priests of we we talked about, I think we talked about this in the aisle episode that there are. We talked about them existing, but we don't know whether they have silver. Yeah.

57:04 OK, hold on, I want to talk about one thing and then I want to get back to this because I think it's relevant. We talked about how Seagal is never in these dreams and it's and Dharna it's always and Dharna screaming, right? Like by by Onyx storm. I don't even think Terran is in the dreams, right? So and Dharna screams bellowing with rage and pain and my head snaps towards the ridgeline towards the storm. We know this doesn't happen and Dharna never screams at Dreythus and Dharna doesn't show up until the very end, right? Until the Eden's blackout, right? So this is again, this is not the future, this is a dream. Why is Berwyn conjuring Andarna though in this dream? Why is he trying to work the

57:40 emotional connection to Andarna rather than Segail rather than Taryn? I don't know. Yeah, I don't have a great answer, but I will say when I first read it, and again, like when I first read these things, I was being naive, right? But when I first when it first came out, the Violet was walking in Zayn's dream, aside from the one with the gold, I was like, is it actually Segail?

58:02 Like that's a little bit of a reach, but like. No, I don't think you think. That Violet knows what Seagal sounds like is the reason I think it's a reach. But like if you're hearing like a female dragon scream, like is this Seagal to Zayden? And Violet just thinks it's Andarna because she's like, I'm locked in my own.

58:18 Yeah, No, I think, I do think we have to kind of filter all the dreams through that I had. I had the same thought. Like, is it actually, is it actually Segal? Whenever, every time she says I hear and Darna scream. Yeah. So the other note I had is the sage says I'll allow you to help her this time.

58:36 The sage promises, pushing his robes at the length of his tan arms. Just submit. Come to me except for you belong, and you'll find a freedom like no other. And this is Dreythus, right? So did Berwyn actually let Zaden go at the end of Dreythus? Like, because he says, I'll allow you to help her this time.

58:51 And we know that this battle is supposed to be, like, representative of Dreythus. They're at Dreyfus. Yeah. And I think that Zaden, I mean, we don't know for sure, but pretty sure that Zaden gets away from Berwyn at Dreyfus. Oh, no, He definitely does. Sorry. He definitely zaded at Dreyfus. So did Berwyn let him go, is what I'm saying?

59:10 Because he says, I'll let you help her. This time. Is the hearse A Gale? And this time is Dreyfus. Yeah, yeah, maybe. So once again, I don't think we have a lot of answers. Yeah, just rounding out the context before the stream is when Violet is confessing to her friends that Zaden is slowly turning Benin, and Zaden has absconded at this point, so he's not around Zaden. 'S not around, yeah.

59:31 Zaden's not around when the stream happens. So distance does not matter. Good to keep in mind since they're separated now. Yep. OK. All right, Chapter 50 chapter. 50O45 and then 50 so close together. I know they're all pretty close together at this point, yeah. Spring green Meadow grass bends under my boots as the first drafts of rainfall. I shouldn't be here.

59:52 I know what happens here. And yet this is where I'm called time and time again. This is the price of saving her life. Lightning splinters the sky, illuminating the high walls of Dreyfus and it's spiraling tower in the distance and outlining dozens of wings in the sky. If I move fast enough, I'll get there this time, but my legs won't obey, and I stumble just like I always do.

1:00:10 He steps out of nothingness straight into my path, and my heart pounds as though increasing the speed of its beats will cease it from sinking through my chest. I grow weary of waiting. The sage pulls back his so the sage pulls back, the hood of his robe revealing red rimmed eyes and scarlet veins branching at his temples like roots.

1:00:26 I am not yours. I flipped my palm, summoning the power that's come to define me, but nothing rises except my own panic. Before I can reach for my blades, I'm yanked into the air. I see fingers wrap around my neck. Too vaporous to fight you. Substantial enough to nearly cut the flow of air. Parent pain sears my throat. Asshole.

1:00:44 My magic never works here, but his always does. You are ours. The sage. The sage's eyes narrow with malice. You will bring what I want. His grip tightens with every word, allowing only a trickle of air into my lungs. Or she dies. I'm through waiting and I will not allow her to win such a prize.

1:01:00 I sweep the sky for a familiar set of wings as I hear her scream, but fine none as the rain begins in earnest. He's bluffing you. I force the words out. Do not have her. He drops his arms and I fall to my knees on the grass, pulling breath after breath to replace what he denied me. But I will, he vows.

1:01:17 Because you'll bring her to me. The fuck I will. Anger cuts through the fear and I slam my left hand to the ground. Rain runs off my flight jacket and courses over the edge of my relic and ribulets as I flex my fingers on the wet grass, playing my fingers wide. My hand, it doesn't look like mine.

1:01:32 There it is. Power courses through the earth beneath me, ready and willing to annihilate their forces if I have the courage to let go of the impossible dreams I've clung to and accept the fates and all has dealt me. I only have to reach, and they'll be safe. She'll be safe. No, this is wrong. This is a dream, only a dream. And yet he holds me here, night after night, fighting through the weight of the nightmare.

1:01:51 I wrench my hand from the ground. Wake. I scream, but no sound emerges. The city will fall, yours will be next. The Sage promises. Wake. I jerk my head up, only to find the Sword of Tyran door at my throat. The Sage draws his arm back. That's it. This is a big one. This is a big one. The one that right before.

1:02:09 This is where they realize she's dreamwalking. But she's dreamwalking, yeah. Yeah, and what to unpack? I will say I thought that this was peek fuckery with pronouns, but actually the next one is peek fuckery with pronouns. But like Rebecca, like so many hers, so many she's Yeah, so. So let's start from the top. Who do you think?

1:02:27 So this is the price of saving her life. Do you think this is Violet, Segal or Andarna? OK, so obviously the first time I read it I thought it was Violet, and then after reading the end of Honest Storm I thought it was Segal and I'm no longer sure. I think it's Segal so the first time I read it I thought it.

1:02:45 I thought it was Andarna because I thought it was Violet Stream still. Yeah, I'm OK. Sorry. Yeah, First I yeah, that's fair. The. Second time I read it I thought it was Violet. Because, I mean, right, There are 4 hers at play here. There's Violet Segal and Dharna Theophany. Theophany. Yeah, exactly. So I think the price of saving her life ultimately is Segal. You do not have her.

1:03:08 I'm sorry, there's five hers at play here. Because Mira is also at play, actually. Yeah, right. So you do not have her to me. I actually think that is. I think that's Violet. So Zaden says after this dream, he wants me to bring him you. Yeah, Violet, right. Right. I don't know that we can confirm that if if this is the pronoun fuckery that's happening in the dream, but Zayden seems to think it's violent. Yeah, I don't think we have a reason to not think it's violent other than that Rebecca wrote it this way. Right, right.

1:03:43 And obviously I think the I will not allow her to win such a prize is the often. That's the oftening. That's the. That's the sure. Unless it's not, Unless it's Violet. Unless he won't let Violet win such a prize because Zaden's fighting for Violet. But I think it's Theophany. Yeah. And then, of course, like, all of it comes out when Zaden lays his hand on the ground.

1:04:04 It's a relic hand. She's like, wait a second, this isn't my hand. And she feels all of Zaden's emotions and tries to break out of the dream and actually gets him to lift his hand. And that's the meddling, right? Like at the end of the dream I wrench my hand from the ground and resists, and Zayden is not the one doing that I don't think. This is the first time Violet realizes, and I think it's an important point.

1:04:28 She can influence the actions of the POV, not just break out of the POV. Yeah, yeah, that's true. She can actually. Almost bodily control. That's a lot. That's a lot. Yeah. OK. And I think it's worth noting too. And then we'll get this into this in the next stream, I think. But Berwyn does not realize Violet is there until the next stream is our assumption.

1:04:50 Because he says hello, lightning wielder. But Zayden mentions that he feels like someone's in his dreams with them watching him. Right. So think there's I think it's interesting too because there is a moment earlier in the dream where I think Violet is also trying to influence it when he says if I move fast enough I'll get there this time, but my legs won't obey and I stumble just like I always do, I wrote. So is this Violet actually trying to get to the tower? Does Zayden never try to get to the tower? Right, because, well, I guess if he says I stumble just like I always do, maybe he does try to get to the tower and Berwyn won't let him.

1:05:23 Yeah. The line my magic never works, but here, but his always does. We've talked about that. That obviously means violence. Magic will also work in dreams. Whether or not that has implications in the real world I think is yet to be seen. We obviously have that theory that maybe Berwyn killed Asher in his sleep, but we also have the theory that Asher used too much time, which I'm leaning towards more now, but it kind of feels like it has to have implications in the real world or what is the point?

1:05:48 But spying, I mean, you could spy, right? Like you can be in someone's dream without them knowing, which is crazy powerful, right? So you will bring what I want or she dies. I'm through waiting. I, we talked about this right when we thought this was Violet's dream, We thought this was in turn. Now that it's Zayden's dream, Zayden thinks it's Violet.

1:06:10 I still think it's interesting that Berwyn says here you will bring what I want, not you will bring her to me, you will bring who I want. Like, does that mean Violet is a what does that mean Violet is like a thing that the Venin have been waiting for? Or is Berwyn actually talking about something else here? Yeah.

1:06:31 And we keep seeing the sort of terrendor, like it's a logical question. We keep seeing the sort of terrendor the. Last one to have had it. Yeah. So is it about the sort of terrendor? And, well, I guess the stone is from the blade of Orisha, the stone on Violet's ring finger. But like, are these magical artifacts that have some intrinsic value that we just aren't aware of yet?

1:06:50 I don't know. Yeah. Right. So Violet, Right. So Violet is able to meddle. So this, yeah, Violet is able to meddle once she realizes that it's not her dream. I think we already talked about that. But she has to. It's it's like what you said, right, a long time ago in Cygnets that I kind of made fun of you for. But it's like the Riders have to realize that they have this power, like they have to believe in themselves that they can do it and not for them to do it.

1:07:13 No, you're totally right and I was the asshole there and I apologize. Yeah, all of the dreams, I think I interpret each of them as what is Rebecca trying to reveal to us in this dream? And obviously there's all of those things we just talked about. But as far as Violet signatabilities, this to me is she can change the actions of the person that she's in.

1:07:31 We don't see that in the next one, right? She just separates herself. Well, OK, so the other thing I had, well, two things. Wake. I scream, but no sound emerges. So she still can't like talk. But I guess that would be, I don't know. I guess that would be weird. I don't know. So she she can make Zayden's hand move, but she can't scream.

1:07:47 And then the sage says this city will fall, yours will be next. So like, I know they already kind of came for Orisha, but like, are they really coming? I I mean, that's obviously where we're headed, right? Like obviously the final battle is going to be in Orisha. It's not Where else would it be? It wouldn't have an emotional component to it if it wasn't an Orisha, but. Yeah, I think it is.

1:08:05 Yeah. Do you want to talk about After the Dream? Yeah. For the sake of the listeners, I mean, when she wakes up from this dream, Zayden's still locked in the nightmare. She's like we got a get out of this and he immediately jumps to her and it's like are you OK? He says my hand looked like yours. They start talking about the dream and Zaden is like oh shit you are in my dreams and we have the very specifically worded line as you've mentioned.

1:08:29 Two hours later, I've told him about every dream I can remember with the Sage, and Zaden's had every single one. So when Zaden is still in the dream, Violet says. My chest tightens at the visible pain on his face and I throw myself down the bond like Satan is in pain. He is in physical pain which I think and and Violet like talks.

1:08:51 Violet mentions a couple times in this dreams like oh shit I can feel this right again. I don't know if that means you can kill someone in a dream. Like I know at one point she's bleeding in the dream she wakes up, she's not bleeding. I just think it's that's an open question basically like how much pain can someone actually be caused in a dream?

1:09:09 Yeah. So pain is even if bodily harm is not being inflicted, pain can like put your body under an amount of stress that could cause problems. Sure. I agree that I like the time travel killing Asher better, but if Asher recalled in pain for multiple nights, yeah you could have a heart attack. I think heart attack is still on the board.

1:09:28 I don't think being mysteriously stabbed in your sleep is in the is on the board, but I think heart attack is on the board. Yeah, I agree. So Zayden mentions he's had these dreams once a week since Resin, which like, first of all, poor Zeidan. That sucks. Yeah. But yeah, it's way before he channeled, and clearly Violet is not in all of these dreams.

1:09:49 Although Violet does mention early on after resin that she's having dreams. Here I have the quote so Zaden asks early in Iron Flame. He asks do you have nightmares about rest and is that way you can't sleep? And she she says I dream of a million different ways we could have lost. Sometimes I dream it's Imogen who dies or Garrick or you. Those are the ones that make it impossible to sleep afterwards. The ones where their sage takes him from me so. Why are we forgetting about Bodie once again? Like what the fuck, Violet?

1:10:19 Because his signet is being undetectable. Yeah, I know, justice for Bodie. But anyways. Yeah, this bitch anymore. He literally gave you his flight jacket so he didn't freeze to death. He's. In love with you. Yeah. Forgetting about him. Anyways, so like Violet is dreaming about resin often. We just don't know whether those are Zaidan's dreams or not.

1:10:44 But I think like we can kind of infer that when she says I've told him about every dream I can remember with the sage. And then she says earlier those are the ones that make it impossible to sleep. The ones where their sage takes him from me. She actually is probably in more than we're hearing about if. I had to go.

1:10:58 Interesting. That's an interesting point. Yeah. OK, so she's in more than we're thinking than we're hearing about. I wanted to talk about this is the one where they figure out that this is her second signet from Antarna, and what Zayden says is her kinder, peaceful, and the ability itself would be passive, even a gift in a culture like that.

1:11:16 So the word gift has popped up here once again. And we know that Violet can do this when Antarna is gone. So I'm still of the mind that here it's gifts. Dragons give signets, earrids give gifts. You keep the gift from the Earrid regardless of whether or not the Earrid is still around. And I'm starting to think that's important for a couple of reasons.

1:11:37 We'll get to my pre card corner theory. So then Zaden says, Violet says there's no such thing as mind walking. Zaden says there is such a thing. It is absolutely more dangerous than lightning. It's a form of intensity. Zaden is so sure it's a thing. Does he realize at this point in time that perhaps Berwyn is a dream Walker too?

1:11:56 And that Berwyn, I assume? So like, why else would Zaden know that this is a thing? But he also has a line that like he has to go to Dreyfus to remind himself it's just dream. But I don't know. Yeah, but so that line is actually super confusing to me because Zayden says exactly what you just said. He's like, it's it is, it is a thing. But he claims that he hasn't realized that he's in nightmares when he's in them.

1:12:20 So like the only dream Walker we know of that's not Violet is Berman. Yes, we should actually take a step back here because we are talking like that is fact and it hasn't been confirmed, but it seems pretty obvious. Yeah. Like, yeah, like I it's never said in the books that these are dreams that Berwyn is creating for Zaden. But like, it has to.

1:12:42 Like that's clearly what's happening here. Yeah, I mean, I don't know why. I guess Zaden could create these dreamscapes himself unconsciously, and maybe Berwyn is not actually there, but. But Berwyn says it so many times, like I'm the reason you're still here, I'm holding you here, I'm why you can't escape.

1:12:58 Like he said so many times, I. Appreciate you trying to clarify, but I actually reject that notion. I think it's OK. If you're a very light reader, you might not. Yeah. But I. Picked up on it. I'm I don't know if I picked up on it the first time I read it, but yeah, yeah, Berwyn is clearly also the other dream marker. Yeah, yes, agree.

1:13:16 But why does Zayden like if Zayden isn't realizing, like I guess maybe Zayden is just waking up and realizing that like Berwyn is holding him in his dreams every night and it's like fuck, like Burton's a dream Walker. But like he seems very confident that that is a standalone segment for someone who has only encountered one in his dreams himself. So then they talk about why she manifested this and the fact that she manifested it because of Andarna and the dreamless sleep.

1:13:40 Bull fucking shit we've. Said it before, we'll say it again. Doesn't make any sense it. Doesn't make any sense. It's a dreamless, dreamless, quote, UN quote sleep. Yeah. I just don't buy it. I don't think that this is the need that inspired this this signet. So maybe I should actually just clarify because we haven't really talked about this since like the Violet deep dive, which was our first episode ever. Like, I do not subscribe to the theory that she's only a dream Walker.

1:14:08 I think she has been needing to be in people's heads for this entire series. And I do not think she's going to be limited to. Sleep This is going to get us my pre cod corner theory. So. But I agree with you, bullshit on the dreamless sleep. We've said it since day one. Doesn't make any sense. We talked about the fact that they basically say, you know, there were nights when we were hours apart from each other, so I guess distance doesn't matter. Good.

1:14:31 Good to know. Good for us. Also, I was like so excited about the dream sex until I read Crescent City and I was like, this has been done. Yeah, we can cut that since it was a spoiler for Crescent City. I mean, you didn't say who, so I think it's fun. Anything else on the stream? No. That was it. Really.

1:14:48 This is also where Taryn is like Andarna. What the hell? You didn't say anything so that the passage, just to be clear. Like when Zayden's like you walk straight into them. I draw slackens and I reach for Andarna. Is it true? Taryn rustles, but stays silent. What does he know? I did not choose it any more than Taryn chose lightning.

1:15:07 She says defensively. But you have been known to wander while dreaming. It's harmless. You're mostly drawn to him. The blanket falls from my fingers. And you said nothing? Taran growls. You did not inform her the first time she wielded lightning, and Darna argues she needed to discover it herself. So these both of them are aware when she's channeling or when she's wielding.

1:15:26 Excuse me? Well, and Dharna is aware. And Dharna is aware when Violet wielded lightning and when Violet was walking dreams. Taran is seemingly, I say seemingly because I'm not sure, seemingly unaware of when Violet is dream walking because he says and you said nothing like are you fucking kidding me? And Darna, what the hell?

1:15:46 So interesting. Yeah. Yeah. OK. We have, I think, one more dream, right? We have one more dream. And it's a juicy one. It's a juicy one. Do we want to read this whole one, too? Yeah, we've done them all. For all the other ones, you might as well. All right. Ready. Ready for audiobook? Brought to you by Abby.

1:16:01 I stand in the field in front of Dreyfus, surrounded by the peaks of snowtop mountains, and even though I shouldn't, I take the first step toward the city. I'm too far. I'll never reach Terran, and he's my only chance of finding her. Battle erupts in the sky over its spiral tower, and the outline of outlines of wings pop through the ominous clouds hovering over the canyons to the South before descending Into Darkness once more.

1:16:23 The storm gives me the one thing I can never really afford. Hope. The rain might make flying a pain in the ass, but it will give her the edge she needs. Fire erupts along the high walls, and flames of blue and green rides climbing the guard towers like Ivy. Shit, I have to get there now. I can put it out.

1:16:38 Shadow beats flame every time my footsteps falter and I pause. Shadow. I don't wield shadows. Zadan does. My body fights to lurch forward, to run toward the city, but I shouldn't continue across this field. It only ever ends one way, with a sage yanking me into the air. This is Zadan's dream. Awareness prickles the back of my neck.

1:16:57 I'm in Zadan's dream. The realization does something that feels like a snap across the back of my skull. Suddenly I'm no longer a part of him as he takes off running ahead of me, dressed for battle. Zadan. I shout. Before he can make it half a dozen steps, he stops, then slowly turns to face me in the grass covered field. His eyes widen when he spots me, then narrow as he glances left then right.

1:17:18 You shouldn't be here. That's an understatement. I take in our surroundings with a quick glance. The field is barren, but if this dream is anything like his others, it won't be for long. You aren't safe. He shakes his head in stocks towards me. I can't keep you safe, this isn't real. I take his ice cold hand in mine, then startle.

1:17:34 I can feel that. Why can't you escape this place? What keeps you here? I do. The sage answers from behind Zaden. Zaden whips around, reaching over his shoulder for a blade that disappears and I move to his side. The sage pulls back the hood of his maroon robe, revealing the freakishly young face that haunts my Zadan's dreams and smiles, cracking the skin of his chapped lips.

1:17:54 The veins along his temples pulse Crimson as he folds his gnarled hands, like this has the possibility of being a sibling encounter. It's so nice of you to join us, lightning wielder. He tilts his head. Or should I call you Dreamwalker? My lips part. Zadan's nightmares are eerily on point. We should go.

1:18:11 I whisper. He can't. The Sage's smile widens and he lifts his Bony hand. Zaden rises and claws at his throat. Wake up. I shout at Zaden. I told you he can't. And here I'd hope you'd be a quick learner. How disappointing. The slaves lectures then slits his eyes like a snake towards Zaden. You lost something I wanted.

1:18:27 But you will bring her. He demands. Never. Zaden forces through, never, never. Zaden forces through his throat and his feet kick for the ground. Don't worry. The sage says with a twisted smile. I'll be a more merciful teacher than Theophany. Fear races down my spine and I reach for power. Stop.

1:18:43 This is a dream, it isn't real. He isn't losing air, he's breathing just fine in our bed. I have to wake up, but that only ever happens when once. The sage strikes his sword coming down on me. Pain, I need pain. I reach for my thigh but only find a smooth layer of leather. I'm done waiting. The sage snarls.

1:18:59 Done playing this little game. You may have raised your words, but they won't save you. We have the advantage, and if you do not deliver her, then she will come herself. It closes his first and Zaid and wheezes. It's simple, Dream Walker. You come or she dies. She who? This is a dream, I remind myself, and if it were mine, I'd be armed.

1:19:15 I slide my hand down my hip and find the hilt of a dagger before I can second guess my plan, I wrench it free, the sage's eyes wide and on the polished wooden handle, but I'm already swinging it toward my arm. The blade sinks into my skin. I jolt upright in bed and gasp for breath, blinking furiously to clear the haze and the nightmare as dawn breaks outside our bedroom window. Oh boy, that was a doozy.

1:19:36 Yeah. All right. Where do you want to start? I mean Violet is conscious within Satan's dream. Before the dream, Satan and Violet are in the throne room after Bodhi says he doesn't want the crown and Brennan gives Satan some mail and then when they wake up. And Brennan delivers the mail. Literally. And then after the dream, they wake up and basically talk about how she separated herself, I'm pretty sure, and I have to actually look at the passage, I'm pretty sure she wakes up and then has to wake up Zayden, which is starting to scare me because Zayden is no longer able to wake himself. I have in my notes what would have happened if Violet wasn't there.

1:20:11 Right. Like, yeah, yeah. And Zayn, like when he wakes up, remembers that she was there. So he, like, in a way, she's actually pulling him out of his dream consciousness by being there, which I think is going to help him at the end of the day. I hope it's going to help him at the end of the day. The Sage also obviously acknowledges her directly, which I think is the first proof that he's dream walking. I think the Sage at this point is pretty confirmed dream walking because before that you could argue that it's like Satan's worst fears but he looks directly at her and is like hey. So here's my thing.

1:20:46 Why? OK, let's say that my theory that the second dream is actually violence is wrong and that it is all Zaden's dreams. Why are they going to Zaden? Why aren't they going right to Violet? Like, why? Why do this stupid fucking workaround, right? Like, is there something about, is there something about dream walking that Shields you from being a different from a different dream Walker, even if you don't know, Like, yeah, why are the workaround?

1:21:11 Why? Why all the red tape? Why such bureaucracy invented? Yeah, I agree with that. But I also think like this is going to sound like a dig at Satan, and I don't mean it too, but like Violet is much stronger willed when it comes to like her own protection. Then Zadan is like, I think Zadan is just the easier target.

1:21:30 Yeah, honestly. And that's kind of what I come back to with the you lost something I wanted to like I have racked my brains because like we've talked about the sage in the stream says you lost something I wanted, but like whatever. Basically. Like I still want Violet. This is right after Andarna leaves. We have been, or at least I have been racking my brains to think of like what else did Zaden lose between the stream and the last one?

1:21:53 I think it's still Andarna, honestly. I think it's Andarna too. I actually wrote that here. You lost something I wanted. What did Zaden lose? I know it just like doesn't make any sense. Why would you go to Zaden to get Andarna? I don't. Know, I think, I mean, I think it's it comes back to like what's simple?

1:22:07 Like if he went into Violet's mind and was like give up Bandarna, Violet would be like absolutely not. If he went into Zaden's mind and is like Violet will live if you give up Bandarna, they'd be like, OK. Maybe. I don't know, I don't know. But the other like really important part of this dream is that Violet creates a dagger in the dream and stabs herself that is fucking. Sick and important.

1:22:30 OK, hold on real quick. I think Dane would give up Andarna. I don't think Zaden would give up Andarna. I think that's fundamental difference. Dane would do anything to protect Violet. Zadan would talk, would bring Violet in right? Zadan would let Violet make her own choice. Yeah, I agree. So This is why you pick Zadan number Dane every time, OK?

1:22:50 Violet creates A dagger. Violet creates A dagger and the sage's eyes widen on the polished wooden handle. So why did the sage's eyes widen? Is it because Violet can create weapons in this dream and maybe he can't? Or is it this dagger specifically? It's important, Yeah. We haven't seen a dagger with a polished wooden handle.

1:23:12 I don't know where Violet got this idea from. I don't know why she wouldn't create a dagger. Dagger a a the alloy dagger. Thank you. I don't know why she create an alloy dagger. I don't know why she create this dagger. Whose dagger is this? Or is it just, oh, shit, Violet can create weapons? That's bad news for me.

1:23:29 It feels anticlimactic if that's the case. No, I think it's they're. Both green walkers. Like he can probably also create whatever he wants. Like, why is he so shocked? Well. He got rid of Zayden's swords before, right? Zayden reasons for his swords and they disappear, right? I mean, it could be the pace at which she's learning.

1:23:46 We know that Violet is actually inherently very skilled at mine work, right? Because of how quickly she can put up her Shields. Yeah. So baby Burn is just like, similar to Zayden. Oh, fuck, that took me months. She just realized how to do. This. Yeah, she just did it. Yeah. Or it's the dagger.

1:24:01 It'd be so much more fun if it's the dagger it. Would be, yeah. Especially if she comes, if she sees it somewhere else in the future. I looked for a polished. I searched these books for polished wooden. The only thing that came up was the exercise machine that's in the gym that she does with Imogen. I was like, I don't think that's it. I don't think that's right.

1:24:19 Yeah, the other. But the other thing I was thinking that's wooden is Liam's carvings of all the Dragons. So is there some relation there? We had gotten some theories that somehow maybe like this was on the and on the other, other people talking to Liam post that like maybe he had somehow like Horcruxed his soul into the wood carvings.

1:24:44 I don't know, maybe. But I do think, you know, that's kind of the other wooden thing that comes up. Yeah. In my mind. From that theory, I think it's probably more likely if the fact that your belongings weren't burned means that you're still wandering which which. Means it's like really that that puts Asher in play, That puts like pretty much everyone in play. I was thinking about this belongings being burned thing like where does the line?

1:25:08 Get drawn. What happens with the scribes? What? Happens with all of Asher's books, right? Every book that someone has written. What happens to your house like this stops making sense pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah. So it would be more fun if it were the dagger. I agree. It could very realistically be how quickly she figured out how to do it. Like in the same dream that she figured out how to separate. She's creating a dagger.

1:25:32 I don't know seems. Aggressive, right? And so maybe it's not because we talked about this like, maybe Berwyn can kill people, maybe he can't. But also maybe if, like we said, Violet at least needs to die to wake up, right? So if Zayda, if Violet can kill Berwyn in these dreams, then he is no longer in control, right?

1:25:53 He can. He can be kicked out of these dreams. Yeah, if Violet finds him. Right. Yeah. So it's finally going to be able to free people from Berwyn's dreams. Maybe that would be fun. Or hold Berwyn in a dream. Hold anyone in a dream really and torture them basically. I mean, she can do. She can fucking torture Age House in a dream.

1:26:11 I would. I would the only other note I have on the stream and then I have some general theories at the end is Gehrig shows up in his carrying tiny scale tiny scale. Oh my God, I thought you said they are Gale, he said. China's scale. China's scale. He shows up and she thinks she's he's holding a shield and he's actually holding mirrors.

1:26:31 Dragon's scale and I haven't capped so they are definitely making dragon scale armor yeah no, the dragon scale armor thing is definitely real That's definitely happening yeah OK. The more you look for it the more you see it. General theories OK or just like points. Let's do it. That I think are interesting. 1 is about Violet's consciousness. We've already talked about how Violet shares consciousness with the person that she's whose dream she's occupying. She also shares contextual knowledge with the dreamer and knows things that the dreamer knows. And I think that's going to be huge. And the reason we know this is when she says. I can't explain how I know since I've only ever seen it from a distance, but the last couple of

1:27:14 times we've been near Dreyfus. And she knows Marin's family. It's the same thing when she sees a picture of Marin's family and recognizes it. Yeah, yeah. So she is registering knowledge of the person that she's occupying. So if she actually hones her signet and can walk into other people's dreams, she's going to start knowing things that other people know, which could become super significant if she starts walking into leadership streams.

1:27:40 Venom's dreams, Jaden's dreams. Yeah, I. Feel like she has to walk into Taryn's dreams. I just feel like it has to happen. I don't know. And imagine the thing she's going to find out then. Taryn is so big because he's full of secrets. Some people will get that reference. We already talked about how the abilities don't seem to be limited by physical distance, Violet says. I've had the dream on nights you weren't with me when you were hours away.

1:28:03 The dreamer can also recognize when she's there. I think the way this comes into play is she starts having to be strategic about how she's working in these dreams, whether she stays within the POV and starts to meddle and understand things, or whether she separates out. Because based on what Zayden is saying, once she separates out, like the Dreamer knows that she's there.

1:28:23 Yeah, there's two, there's two paths for this, right? There's the spying, which is what we're talking about here, going and gathering information. And then I think there's the fighting, which is what she starts to do with Berwyn, but then for some reason taps out, takes herself out instead of trying to fight Berwyn. Yeah.

1:28:37 I'm on the last note that I have and this is like this could be nothing in chapter 54 when Indarna leaves. I love when you start a theory with it could be nothing because it means it's going to blow my mind every time. It could be nothing. It actually could be nothing. In chapter 50 for when Andarna leaves, Violet mentions she sleeps but she doesn't dream. What I'm wondering is, does this mean that Andarna actually did shut down the bond for a period that is a argument against against being an inherent gift, but reopened it and wasn't hiding when Violet started dream walking again? Did Andarna actually go away but then come back and kind of stay hidden?

1:29:14 Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. Or maybe she was so drained from the sudden absence of an Darna that she just had nothing in her to. Yeah, Drain, yeah, I think either of those. Anybody else's? Is possible, yeah. Wasn't Darna just secretly in Arisha the whole time with the other hidden den of?

1:29:32 Irids, I actually think it's totally possible that she literally left for like basically that time that Violet was in bed and then was back. I'm serious, I would not be shocked. I don't know, they can literally blend in. I know, I know, I know. And they can appear as other Dragons. Yeah, let's move on. Is there anything else that you had General berries on Dream? Just my precog which is dream walking related. Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

1:30:00 OK. Should we go to Precog corner? Sure. All right. OK. Precog corner. Precog corner music. One day we might have actual segment music. It'll be fun. OK, so back to our favorite people, the Irids. So what the ocean says to Andarna before we know what signet Violet has gotten from Andarna is. And you, you gifted her something far more dangerous, didn't you? And we know that what Zadan says is that and Arna, it would be it.

1:30:29 Her people are peaceful, right? Her people are considered peaceful. It would be considered a gift in their culture, right? So why would the Irids think that dream walking is dangerous, right? Because like, Zadan has a good point that they're peaceful. They would think it's harmless. They would think it's a gift.

1:30:45 Why would they think that dream walking is dangerous? I think the Irids know that dream walking is dangerous because they've gifted it before and they've gifted it to Berwyn. So the way that Berwyn got this signet is from an Irid, right? Irids? So I just know that dream walking is far more dangerous because they gifted it before Berwyn ends up with it. Now he's using it to recruit for the Venant and possibly also kill people, right?

1:31:08 So at some point, even if he's Grandpa Reorson, based on the theory we were just talking about before, we're like Tiera Door might have been a Mecca of irids living peacefully with people. If the Irids had given him this gift. He had the dream walking ability. He still has it right, because it's a gift. It's not a signet.

1:31:27 He still has it. He's basically using it to recruit for the venom. That's how he got the gift. Or if we're going off that you get the signets of the people you kill theory he killed someone who was bonded to an Irid. I think it's much more not bonded to an Irid, but got the gift from an Irid. I think it's much more likely that he got he got this gift from an Irid and that's the balance, right?

1:31:45 That's that's how the balance works. And that's when Indarna says like nature likes everything in balance. It's the first thing we're taught, right? So like that, that is the balance. And Irid gave Berwyn dream walking. So an Irid had to give a non venom dream walking as well. The other piece of this is Indarna, as we've talked about, means second honor.

1:32:02 Everyone says that's because she's Violet's second dragon. What if it's she's the second Irid to give this gift, right? She has to be the second one. It's in my pre cut corner theory. It's not. I'm not that sold on it. So you think this theory like coexists with Erwin having been bonded to Segal previously?

1:32:18 I think it still works if you buy my theory that there's a secret era den in Orisha. For anybody who's confused about the Secret era den, please go listen to history part. There were other Dragons when Brennan died, and that's where. I have an errands. Yeah, I mean, I have no reason to believe that that couldn't be true.

1:32:36 And I do think like, I just, I have this feeling that the irids and the venom are intrinsically LinkedIn some way. Like they are either like 2 evils that need to, I shouldn't say they're evil, but like two things that need to exist together or cause each other to exist somehow. And this lends itself to that. Interesting.

1:32:56 Yeah. I mean, and he also in a dream sort of alludes to stopping time. Exactly he also let's just stop in time, which we think is a is an irrid thing. We think all irrids can probably do that based on all irrids can Asher having so much time to run to romp around the aisles. That's my theory. I like it. Thank you.

1:33:14 OK, cool. OK cool. OK good. So Berwyn got dream walking from an Irrid. Got it. We are just writing our own. This has become a fan fiction podcast. We could honestly like just based off of this, probably write books four and five or a version of them. It definitely wouldn't be as good. There's that.

1:33:30 OK, well, so my precog corner theory, I'm just carrying it over from the last episode where I basically chose to do a throwaway 1. I already had a precog corner theory about the earids having all of the magic and I I could double down on that. But I'm just going to tell you to go listen to that precog corner theory because I do still think that there is a real possibility that the earids are the only true source of magic that exists.

1:33:51 But this has nothing to do with any of that. It actually is from our history episode. That's completely irrelevant to what I'm about to tell you. Completely irrelevant. I want to talk about siphons. There is a part of a quote that is super obvious that I think I just massively overlooked. And so I'm curious whether you also massively overlooked it or whether I'm alone here.

1:34:11 When they're first learning about Nailin, who is the only siphon aside from Sloan that we are presented that we know about, right? It said nail and signet was siphoning. He could absorb power from other sources, other Dragons, other riders and then use it or redistribute it. And my question is what does use it actually mean? We have only ever seen siphons SAP power from something and send it to someone else.

1:34:37 And me in my head was just thinking that's what they do. They take power and then they give power because they don't have a signet, like they don't have a thing that power manifests into. But that's not what Kiori is saying here, he said. Use it or redistribute it. So if if Naolan was OK, but like, I guess the question is how do you define use it? Like because if Naolan is giving that power to Brennan to mend himself as he's dying, is that not using it? I think that's a redistribution he's, but I guess I'm not Brennan.

1:35:08 I would think what Sloan does to Brennan when he's healing Mira is a redistribution, but I would think when and he's giving that power, when Naolan is giving that power directly to Brennan to mend himself, that isn't using it. But I see what you're saying, Brennan. Is dead like how is Brennan using like how is Brennan like hemorrhaging and like no pulse because he says he died like he was like you weren't killed. Okay, actually the part of that quote that I thought was fascinating that you just said was they can use the the magic of other Dragons.

1:35:43 Other Dragons, Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. How are they not just venom? Yeah. That's wild. So like, I guess what I'm what I'm ruminating on is yes, like it's crazy that you can like siphons seemingly can can basically channel yeah from any power source the same as as venom other sources, other Dragons, other riders like doesn't matter.

1:36:03 They if if there is power there they can take it, siphon it off and use it or redistribute it. I'm wondering what use it actually means. Like if if it means you can use the power in the same format you siphoned it in, AKA you can use other people's cygnets, then that is an absolutely crazy segment. Like that's the craziest signet that exists, but it also makes Brennan's death and subsequent resurrection like possibly make a little bit more sense.

1:36:30 Wait, wait, wait, wait. Wait, so you think siphons are kind of mimics? I think siphons, I guess, are mimics, but you can't use, you can't use that signet unless you're drawing from it. I see what you're saying. Yeah, like mimics can. Just like we've never seen a mimic. So God knows what a mimic does, but they have to be actually like taking in that power.

1:36:48 And then it also made me wonder, like, could it make sense if Jack were a siphon then? Because he was literally taking Violet's power and pushing it back into her. And I guess the venom do need a siphon if Naolan is not a venon. If he's not a venon, yeah, I still think he's a venon, but like that. So use it or redistribute it.

1:37:06 I like can't, my brain can't let that go. And like what does it mean that Sloan can do? So basically like in conclusion, my pre caught corner theory is I think that siphons can do more than just put power in other places. Yeah. And we haven't seen what that is, but I think it's going to end up being. Yeah, I definitely just, I definitely just glazed right over that.

1:37:24 Interesting, I'm also now just thinking about what other sources means. Dragons, Riders, what are. Ground, sky, water. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So can a siphon turn venom? I guess if he runs out of yeah, I don't know because like. What are the others? Siphoning was such a mind fuck too, because like so Violet, right, Who's like a lightning wielder? Like she gets her lightning from the power that is Terrence. Like what is sight like?

1:37:51 How do you burn out siphoning? Like you're not siphoning the power of your dragon. Your dragon is giving you the power to siphon. Yeah. I can't right now I can't. It's. Too much, it's hurting. Anyways, we got to this up. Yeah, we're going on. We're going on five hours. This is we. Yeah. We were like, oh, this will be. This is what we do when we start talking about these books. We just keep going and going going. It's great.

1:38:12 All right. What are OK? It's Reading Corner time. I guess we're calling it Reading Corner. Are you reading anything fun? Yeah, I'm trying to reread A Court of Thorns and Roses, the first book, the one that's. That's what we talked about last episode. So I guess maybe to just share a little bit of my personality with our audience.

1:38:30 I am selective rereader, so I will go reread either books or parts of books that I just want to reread. So I ended up by accident rereading all of a Court of Silver Flames because that book is fantastic. I also ended up rereading all of a Court of Mist and Fury. I've read like some of a Court of Wings and Ruin, just the parts that I like, but I have no issue.

1:38:50 Like I don't have the like type A and me to be like I need to reread a book from start to finish. I just pick the parts that I love so. I will say part of the reason it takes me so long to prep for these episodes is because I will find a passage in any of these books that I like like, and I'll just reread the whole fucking chapter. I'll be like, I need the context for this. And then suddenly I'm just like rereading. So that happens with me with the Empyrean series, but it's usually because we'll be rereading something for a chapter and then like all of the good stuff in this book happens starts at the end of chapters.

1:39:25 So I'll get to the end of the chapter and I'm like, oh oh, I want to reread this part. This is fun. Yeah, no, that's what I meant for the Empyrean. Series, but yes, yeah. All right, I'm not reading anything. Well, let's assume by this point I'm on book 2 of Throne of Glass and I love it. In reality, I'm halfway through book one, but let's just assume by the time this is out, I'm on book 2 and I love it.

1:39:44 Love it. Great, perfect. I love. How much can I? OK, Throne of Glass spoilers if you haven't. Spoilers go right lightly reference it. I'm only going to lightly reference it, but bye. I love that we have an actual fucking love triangle and I don't know who she's going to pick. Like I like them both. I know that I know this is not going to go the way I think it is because it's Sarah J Maas.

1:40:05 But like right now I'm like, I'm invested in both these men. I think they both have their pros. I think they both have their cons. I'm excited and I'm sure I will eat my words in a week, but. No, I mean, I think that's the way that you're supposed to feel. Like, yeah, Selena's kind of like a wild card. I know I'm like, are we going to get a threesome like? She's also like, I feel like this is probably the the series where Sarah J Maas actually focuses the most on, like furthering the main protagonist independent of romance plotline. The book is about Selena.

1:40:39 Yeah, that is what. No, I really like it. I really, I know people love this series. I'm I'm on board. I'm all in. I mean, this series like, brought me like figuratively to my knees, like sobbed so. I know what you're saying. Like I'm such a crier. I'm such a crier. You're done. You're done for.

1:41:02 Well, you're gonna see me next week and we'll see where I'm at. Yeah, I mean I'm just trying to literally 8 books to go through so. I thought it was 7. So actually this would be fun for our listeners. So I have read all of Throne of Glass except for Assassin's Blade. I have not read the the prequel.

1:41:20 The prequel, Yeah. And the prequel is the 8th. OK, Jesus Christ, how are we ever going to pot about this book? We'll figure it out if we do it. There's a way, but there's a way. I mean, you can't, I don't know. I think it needs to be the same structure as this where we choose like specific theories to dive into that's. What we're gonna do, that's our thing. Yeah.

1:41:41 That's our thing. Yeah, Yeah. OK. Well, that's where we guys. That's what we're reading. We're excited about it. Thanks for listening to us. Yeah. About dreams for. I'm going to guess we're going to edit this down to about an hour and 35 minutes, but we'll see. My bet's closer to an hour 45, but all right. Between an hour 35 and an hour 45. Thank you.

1:42:04 You'll get to know which of us are right as you listen to this, which is fun for you, OK? Oh wait, social media. An announcement Social media follows on Dragons details Pod on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. e-mail us Dragons in the details pottedgmail.com We are also now on Discord if you want to talk about this stuff even more with a bunch of other people who also want to talk about this stuff. It's actually funny.

1:42:26 We've had a couple people join and be like oh this is great because my book club hated Onyx store but now I have people to talk about it with. I'm like how could anyone hate dark dorm? What the fuck? Yeah, I mean, I have met some haters and I get why. Like I I do understand. I guess I'm just in my mind, it's such a puzzle box that like, I don't know, I'm just like even if I even if I didn't enjoy it, which I do, it just activates my brain so hard. That like, yeah.

1:42:54 But I think there's. People who want to theorize and then people who want like a well articulated story that doesn't make you think super hard and this. I think this is a OK I if people don't like Onyx Storm because they don't want to feel the way it's making them feel, I understand that. Yeah, which was me when I first read this. I was like, this is fucking.

1:43:13 Terrible. Yeah, I understand that. But I have a hard time with anyone who's like, this is just a bad book. I and but everyone's entitled to their opinion. I think there's there's two primary things that I've heard from people who don't like this book. 1 is that in the first half they have no idea who anyone is, which I actually resonated with.

1:43:30 Like, who are these people? Yeah, Are these Flyers? And then 2 is like, yeah, you're basically reading a novel of like, Satan slowly dying, which is depressing. I feel like this is just like now that I've gone through and do the close reread, I feel like it's more like Rebecca was like all right, training wheels are off y'all better keep up.

1:43:49 Yeah. Yeah, All right. I desperately need to go. OK. So love you guys. Bye. Love you. Bye.