Onyx Storm: The Iron Squad Fantasy Draft

0:16 I will say I do think I have outdone myself in terms of crispy like coke of the week. What have you got? Oh my God, it's so cute. It's so cute. I love that. It is one of the flatter ones, I'm not going to lie, that I've had, but it's cute. Have we talked about this? I really can't drink soda out of a bottle. Like I really need to drink soda in a glass with ice. Like any soda I like, even even like a sparkling water that I know we've talked about at length on this podcast, but. You just can't.

0:49 Sparkling water. You just can't. No, something's wrong with the carbonation. No, I don't like a can. I just like it poured out. Over ice. I mean, I agree with you that it's best that way, but it's interesting that you refuse to drink it any other way. Refuse is a strong word, but like my preference. Is certainly OK if it's your preference that I I think that's.

1:08 Probably reasonable. Yeah, I am dealing with. I've got liquid IV, I've got water and I've got coffee. So great. If you can't tell, I had a bit of a night. But it's fine. It's fine. OK so the reason I'm drinking 3 beverages right now is because yesterday we had it was like an apartment crawl party. A bunch of my friends live in my neighborhood which is super awesome for me but one of them is moving so this was like her going away party.

1:33 And so we went from apartment to apartment and everyone made their own drink and had their own snack and it was really fun. But she did, she did like a lemon drop type drink, but none of us were really like doing like actual traditional drinks. They were all kind of like our own spin. But she put salt and sugar on the rim.

1:51 It was good. It's so good. I was like, this is genius. I know people have done this before, but it was delicious. Salt and sugar rim Like why choose? You know, like, yeah, This is why choose. Why choose? My why choose is salt and sugar on the rim of a drink. I guess salt versus sugar. I don't know what my why she?

2:15 Was it fun? It was fun. It was really fun, but and I didn't even drink that much. I'm just over 30, so I'm dying today. She had temporary tattoos, so I have temporary tattoos. That's fun. Yeah, yeah. That was good. It's a good time. I have something to tell you. Oh boy. I don't know how funny you're going to think it is, but I thought it was hilarious. Okay, remember last week when we were recording? I guess it was 2 weeks ago and Connor brought in a salad in the middle of it.

2:44 Yeah, and you were like, I don't have time to eat this right now. What are you? I can't eat this. We were in the middle of like, I think our second Onyx Storm ending episode or like something. I was like, I'm definitely not gonna be able to eat this right now. And he was like, okay, sorry. And then he left and then I came out.

2:59 Obviously after we were done and was eating the salad, he was so confused. He was like, why couldn't you eat the salad? Like because we were recording and he was like, oh, I thought you guys just recorded for like 45 minutes and then talked for like 3 more hours and I was like, Oh no, recording for approximately 4 hours at a time.

3:25 I told Derek today, and obviously we'll see how this plays out, but I'm like, I don't think it's going to take as long today. I don't think we have as much to talk about. He's like, OK, so only like 3 hours. I was like, that's a ridiculous statement. But yeah, maybe, I don't know. Your hair looks very shiny. Does it?

3:39 I used dry air dry mousse. Have you heard of this? And they make a mousse your hair, which like I'm not going to lie, when I did when I purchased it, I was thinking to myself like air drying is like the most non invasive way to do anything to your hair. And now we have like made a product. Yeah.

3:56 For it. But I like it, looks good. I mean I always air dry so maybe I'll look into this because your hair looks really nice. It's good, would recommend, highly recommend. Sponsor us No. Crown Affair. Please. Sponsor us? I don't use anything except for their air dry mousse so I really should probably try other products before asking for a sponsorship.

4:14 OK. Hi, have we heard from Coca-Cola yet? We've not heard from Coca-Cola. There's a small brand that we have been featuring regularly that we are really trying to get to sponsor us. Coca-Cola, please consider. Small and deep beverage brand. Small and deep beverage brand. I feel like we've even gotten like maybe a couple comments on the Diet Coke situation.

4:36 Yeah, I think there's a cult following for the crispiness of we've. Certainly, certainly introduced some people to Coke. Some people had never heard of it before they listened to the podcast. OK. Hi everyone. I'm Ronnie, I'm Abby, and this is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes.

4:59 This season that we're in right now is focused on the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaris. We are rounding that out, but we have a few fun episodes that we'll be sharing and airing before we close this chapter chapter. We're not closing it like things are going to happen. Like I know it's just goodbye for now.

5:20 It's not like like the TV show is going to come out. The 4th book is going to come out. I guess the graphic novel is going to come out. I don't know that we're. Going to do anything with that, but we'll see. Like, there's going to be stuff to talk about stuff before we start talking about the graphic novel. Like, emotionally you want to have. Yeah.

5:35 Like, I have to attend therapy before we can start talking about the graphic novel. I said this once, I'll say it before. I think once you start putting images in this book a it starts getting, like, pretty raunchy pretty quickly. But BI feel like things are going to start to get spoiled, like with the end of Onyx Storm, right. If her hair is completely silver. If you have a graphic novel, that becomes obvious, Right. So I don't know.

6:00 It's gonna be interesting. Yeah. I'm not sure how they're gonna work. Through that, yeah. I also just think, like we've talked about this before, but without a Game of Thrones budget. Like I'm worried that they're also just gonna ruin the magic. Like I'm scared of not liking it as much once a show is made. I hear what you're saying and I'm probably going to get crucified for this, but like, I feel like the AI artworks that I'm just seeing on Instagram are like so vivid and lifelike at this point that I feel like you don't need a Game of Thrones budget to have the same level of special effects that you did when Game of Thrones came out.

6:37 I don't work in entertainment. I don't know that anything I just said is facts, and I don't know that that's the way that they want to go with the show. But I do feel like maybe you don't need the same size budget to create as in depth and as good a fantasy series as you did. I agree with you in the sense that I think CGI is going to be way better. I do think there are definite ethical questions within Hollywood right now.

7:01 Over like the youth, absolutely. I'm more broadly. I have a lot of thoughts on this specifically. We don't need to get them into it right now. But I do work a lot with AI. You know, I work a lot with AI and I think the idea of it replacing humans is absolutely absurd. We're nowhere near that point.

7:17 It's and it's never going to be good enough to do that. But I do think there's a place for it to like aid in the creation of stories. And I think it should be used for that. But yeah, no, it's not going to replace. It's not going to replace anything. Wow, we're getting so deep right now. We're getting just so many issues. In the middle of the intro.

7:37 I know. Disclaimer, in case you haven't caught on, episodes will contain spoilers up through Onyx Storm. If you have not finished Onyx Storm one, you've already been spoiled, so yell at Abby for that. To save this, I'm sorry later. Due to the contents of the series, the podcast is rated R only. Should be listened to by mature audiences.

7:56 Please do not listen to this with your children each week. We have previously dove into a specific topic in depth that is kind of been our structure thus far. The the 1st 16 episodes that we put out were topic by topic. This is the first of our like fun series. This is our Iron Squad fantasy draft episode.

8:15 Yay. So for context, we have wrapped our deep dives for the Imperian series and we're now in the midst of our ACOTAR rereads. We definitely still have substantial episodes to record here, so we're working through. It great. I think we still have at least 4, I'm going to say 4, maybe 5 episodes on Onyx Storm that weekend. Yeah, Including the two we're recording today, yeah. I think we definitely have 4, but again, we are now kind of moving into more fun episodes.

8:44 We're going to do a couple of fun episodes and then we have at least one other mailbag and probably a follow up to the end of Onyx Storm. We'll still working through kind of what the rest of the season looks like, but we're not doing a topic deep dive this week. We come with receipts. We have quotes to back everything up so you can follow along if you're skeptical or you don't have to, but I feel like most of you do anyways. So announcements.

9:05 Do you want to give our announcements? Sure. So as we previously mentioned in this episode, season 2 is going to be on Akatar. So if you want to follow along, if you want to do your rereads or your first read, if you haven't read Akatar, please do. And we highly encourage that. We're in the midst of our rereads. I am finding a lot of stuff out, especially in book one. Honest to God, I have a completely different opinion on book one now than I did the first time I've read it. I actually think book 1 is fucking brilliant and we can get into it when and we do our deep dives on a guitar. But like I think book one of a guitars because I always thought book 2 was really good.

9:38 I now think book one might actually be on the same level. So if you want to go on that journey with us, we'd love to have you. So please do your A guitar rereads or first reads. And we are on discord. We are at dragonsinthedetailspod@gmail.com. A couple fun milestones. I think we've mentioned milestones before we hit 2000 followers on Instagram.

9:58 I'm so thank you so much for that guys. That's huge. We love it. We thought maybe 20 people would follow us. Another one, I don't know how legit this website is, but I was looking at a rankings of book podcasts in America and we were ranked 52nd, which I think is fucking crazy. And we were like third, third in terms of podcasts that cover like romanticity. So holy shit, guys, thank you so much for listening. That's absolutely amazing.

10:21 I never thought that would happen. So like, thank you so much for being with us on this journey. And we know there's a lot of podcasts that cover the this topic. So thanks for listening to us because you have a lot of choices out there. So thank you. Yeah, Thank you. Yeah, I think that's. Do we have any other announcements? I think that's pretty much it.

10:40 No, I think those are announcements. Yeah. Corrections, omissions, social media shout outs. Do you have any to share with the class? I do. Do you want to go first? Do you want me to go first? I can go first. I don't care. I've got 21 is a doubling down. One's an omission and then another is social media shout out.

10:57 Last week we were talking about what Berwyn has that Zaden needs. One of the options that we listed, while we kind of generally both agreed that it's dream walking, One of the options we listed was then in knowing the cure. Like don't know the cure, I just in prep for these episodes and actually now 100% in the camp of the Venna, know the cure. And I think specifically Theophany knew the cure. And I didn't bring up this quote and I totally should have and a few folks on our discord helped me dig into this one. But when Theophany leaves Violet a letter, one of the letters is Violet.

11:33 I do hope you had a marvelous time on your journey though. You're right, looks a little haggard when you flew over Pavis. I do wonder why you went to so much effort when I have the one thing you seek above all else. The rest of the letter is irrelevant. The one thing the Violet seeks above all else is the cure to absolutely Venin. So yeah, she has that and I am now kind of terrified that it died with her.

11:52 I don't think it actually did, otherwise there would not be an ending to the story. But like, how devastating would it be if Violet killed Theophany and Theophany was the person who knew the cure? Hopefully it was passed on to Berwin, or hopefully it's just common knowledge amongst the Vennon, but I'm definitely doubling down on that one being a very real possibility. I totally agree.

12:09 Yeah, I, we got comments on that, that quote too. So I totally agree with you. I totally think that's right. I think if Theophony knew the cure, then whoever he quote UN quote is probably also knows the cure. We know he is not Berwyn. Yeah, but whoever Theophony kind of like reported up to probably also knows the cure.

12:26 Yeah. So I'm hopeful as well. Yeah, yeah. We're gonna find it or. Not We're gonna find it or we're gonna revolt. We're gonna find it or we're gonna DNF is basically the situation for me. We can't DNF. I know I can't DNF. It's just like that stupid relay. I have to make it to the end. Do you want to tell people what you're talking about?

12:47 Sure. So. Abby and I and a couple of our friends ran a marathon relay recently and I have not been having the greatest time running recently. And when you're, I don't know, older and running races, the thing that happens when you are either like not well trained or you're injured is used DNF like you don't finish. And I was like in the middle of my leg of this relay and was like, wow, that's like literally not an option for me because I have to hand the chip to.

13:19 The next. Person. Because Ronnie was the first like, so she dropped out. We were all. Yeah, no one would run. So yeah, I think you. Finished. You did a good job. Yeah, it was fun. It was a good time anyways, anyway. Second social media shout out was to Mrs. Sandoval who commented on one of our TikTok posts this week asking us to talk about something specific. It is from Iron Flame.

13:44 It's something that in my opinion is very clickbait is not the right word. But like you read it and you think like, oh, I should think about that. Oh, that means something. But we haven't dug into it and it hasn't really naturally come up. So in Iron Flame Chapter 64, so the end of Iron Flame, Zaden says about the sage at Bezgaya. He says he thought we'd be at Samara, figured we'd do the honorable thing and answer Melgrin's call and Violet says how do you know that?

14:08 And Zadan says do us both a favor and don't ask so why can't she ask and how would he know? Violet at this point already knows about Zadan's second segment. Plus like I think Zadan probably wouldn't have been able to read his intentions from that far away like the sages intentions. Plus it's only intentions like Zadan signet at this point.

14:27 He has not turned yet so at this point he's just reading intentions. He's not hearing like outright thoughts as far as we know. He also was invented at this point so it's not like he could have used like a hive mind or anything like that. The Sage has been appearing in his dream so far but we seem to have seen a lot of those dreams and this doesn't really come up like the Sage saying oh you're going to be at Samara. Like I think you're going to be at Samara. So how did Zaden know what the Sage thought and why the Sage thought you know you won't be here, you would be at Samara. My best guess honestly is that he was just telling Violet not to ask because they are literally right next to CODAG and Melgren.

15:02 So even if he was using a signet, even if Berwyn had told him in his dreams or like through some other way, he's not going to say anything in front of Kodak and Malgren? I don't really know. I don't exactly know how Satan knows. But so either way, he would be revealing either the Venner in his dreams or that he can read minds either way. Like that's a problem to do in front of Kodak. And I definitely thought when I remember this line, and I've definitely thought it was because he had realized that Berwyn was actually talking to him in dreams. And this wasn't they weren't just dreams like that, that Berwyn was a dream and that's how he knew that Violet was a dreamwalker and that dreamwalking was the thing because Berwyn knew about it,

15:39 because Berwyn was doing it. This is making me think though. Remember when we had that theory that the Samara attack was a plant? Like they they were fucking with Melbourne's signet? Like I think like does this kind of tie it like because because Zadan is saying they were always planning to attack Baz Gaieth, right?

16:00 Like he was always planning to be here, but he thought we would be at Samara. Like they never actually attacked Samara, right? So like are the venin, are the Venin able to fuck with Melbourne Signet? And does that mean the Venin are also able to fuck with arcs? Well, I think that the venom fully intended for that to be the case, right? Like intended for.

16:19 I think we need to think more. About this, I think there's more here either way. Like even if that's the case, why does Zaden say don't ask? Because he doesn't want Violet to know that Berwyn is trying to recruit. Right. That is an even simpler explanation, which is Violet at this point does not know that Berwyn's talking to Zaden in his dreams.

16:37 Yeah, something could have happened in his dreams, not the ones that we saw, because nothing really made us think that from any of the dreams that Violet saw in Iron Flame. But. It could also be that well, but Zaden says my powers never work here because I was going to say, it could be that Zaden can read Berwyn's intentions when Berwyn is in his head, like when Berwyn is creating these dreams for Zaden. Maybe Zaden can also like flip that for flip that on its head and be in Berwyn's head too.

17:08 Zayden says my powers never work here. Except Violets actually saying that, right? Not Zayden. Well, whoever violets personifying in those dreams says his powers always work here, but mine never does. But maybe her powers don't work because she's not herself. Like maybe Zayden's shadows do work, but Violets Lightning doesn't because it's not Violet's dream, it's Zayden's dream.

17:29 Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'm she's in a circle. Feeling the same thing that he's feeling in those dreams. Like I think she is him in those dreams and like her mindset is his and said like his powers don't work in those dreams and berwins do. Like I think of anything Violets powers are more likely to work in those dreams than satans, and if satans did he wouldn't be like constantly held in midair at the throat right? I think you're right.

17:52 I think you're right. I don't know, needs to think more about it, but I think it's interesting. I still think. I think, I think the same thing, which is Zaden wasn't Benin. He can only read intentions. So one of two things has to be happening here. Either there are dreams that we didn't see where he had reason to believe that Berwyn did think that they were going to be at Samar, and he just doesn't want to say it out loud because 1, Violet doesn't know about it. And two, they're like literally right next to Kodak like that. Yeah.

18:18 Or two, he like actually could read Berwyn somehow. And if he said that in front of Kodak Melgren, he would be executed. So yeah. No, I think all, all of that, all of those are options. I definitely think there are dreams we haven't seen, right? Because Zadan says he's been having a dream once a week since resin. Yeah, I mean, the absolute wild card in the midst of this is that Arc at this point has bonded and could have manifested at this point.

18:41 But also Zadan's like not been in his intensic Cygnet is allegedly still just intentions. So like how he would know anything that Arc has seen? Unlikely. I don't know. All right, that's a good one. So Mrs. Sandoval, in conclusion, that's our best guess, but we're really unsure. We'll think. More on it, as per usual, there's always more to talk about with these books. Always more.

19:02 OK, what are yours? So the first one goes back to last week when we were talking about the 12 hour window and how we think that Zadan and Violet probably got married on on real and not in Orisha and whether or not they would have had time to get to on Real. We've we've said there might be time manipulation happening here.

19:21 I think that's still possible, but I realized that I missed a quote that I think will help us. And I, I tried to do some like trigonometry, but then I realized I didn't have enough information to do it. But we'll get there. So when they are on the unnamed aisle where they find the ear is Violet saying, I think we just have to go home.

19:39 I don't think there's anything else to do here. Garrick has a quote. Garrick nods and stares out over the water. Technically on the map, if you fly northeast for two days, you'd hit the Cliffs of Dream lore. So I had totally missed that. But that gives us like some orientation for where they are on the map. So also my whole of the aisles might be across the emerald sea thing.

20:00 That's totally wrong. They are S, right. You just said, Oh, Mike, you just whispered, Oh my God, tell me what you're thinking. Because I had something else, a quote I missed that I was going to bring up in this episode, which is also about flying two days straight. OK, OK. At one point, Zadan says only the larger Dragons can fly two days.

20:20 Taryn Segal Mulvik maybe? Yeah, this is right after that quote. This is the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So Mulvik, Mulvik. So does that mean that ARC went? To ARC is the 4th one. OK, maybe let's talk about how they could get to Unreal, because I went through and Rebecca actually does tell us where and how long every aisle is. For the most part.

20:42 It's not perfect, which is why I couldn't figure it out exactly, but when they're first flying, so I had also forgotten when they're first flying to the Isles, they actually leave from Bazgayeth, not from Arisha. So that obviously adds a bunch of time to. Right. They fly so and I started everything from Dreyfus, right, because they're in they're at Dreyfus at the end of Onyx storm. So let's assume that that they're leaving from Dreyfus. Dreyfus to Corden, and I'm going to kind of sorry for everyone who's listening.

21:05 I'm going to kind of like sketch this out with my hands. Dreyfus to Corden probably a couple hours. We know this because when in iron flame, when Violet flies from Arisha to Cordon, it takes like it takes half a day. According to the wiki, Arisha to Dreyfus is a 2 hour flight for Tam. So that gives us two hours Dreyfus to cordon. Dreyfus to Cordon is a 10 hour flight. All right so we're in Dreyfus.

21:27 We're going to cordon 10 hour flight. Cordon to Deverelli, which is due South takes them 16 hours, but it takes them 16 hours with the Griffins And we know that Deborah Ellie is due South because they he to Karis tells us Deborah Ellie is due South from from cordon. It's a 2 day journey by my fastest ship to Kara says, his brow furrowing as he studies me, which would make it what a 12 hour flight due South. So that's what to Kara says to Violet. Violet says we estimate 16 with the Griffins and what your texts have provided about historical wind patterns. So Takaris is assuming 12 hours with the Dragons, but we know that Terran is like kind of twice as fast as all the other Dragons, right?

22:06 So I'm assuming 8 hours. I'm assuming he'll take Terran 8 hours to get to Debora. Ellie from Deverelli to Unbreal, they leave. So first of all, Deverelli is the southernmost aisle. So we know wherever they're going, it's north and they leave from the West Coast. So we can assume that we've gone Dreyfus to Cordon Deverelli's due South. Unbreal is going to be back in the direction of Dreyfus. Unbreal is actually going to be closer to Dreyfus. And we know this because as I said, they're going West and Garrick says that the unnamed aisle is northeast. So at some point they kind of pass back under Dreyfus. Deverelli to Unbreal is 9 hours.

22:41 So now we're back closer to Dreyfus and we're like we're closer to Dreyfus is my point. I'm not doing a great job explaining this. I really need to tie from it out. I think Taryn could get there probably in like 6 hours. So the question is Unreal is much closer to Dreyfus than we thought. Can Taryn get there and back? Taryn, Segal and I guess Molvic get there and back in under 6 hours?

23:02 I think maybe. I think they could maybe have done this without time manipulation. I'm not 100%, but there's enough there that it's like it is possible. It kind of depends on like the directions that Unbreal is from Deverelli and like obviously the maps not super accurate. But the other piece of this is when Violet is flying to, I want to say Samara or maybe it's Montserrat in fourth wing. That flight is 6 hours and that flight is like almost half the continent.

23:31 Like that guy is in the middle and Montserrat is like on the other side. Violet says that flight takes six hours. So like the Dragons can cover a lot more distance than I kind of thought within six hours. All of which is to say, I think it is possible that we're still dealing with a quick trip to Umbria that does not take 8 days, that takes a couple hours. Yeah, possibly, assuming that nothing else happened in that. Assuming.

23:55 I got married. Assuming that basically, yeah, assuming there were multiple parties here and all that Zadan and Violet and Taryn and Siegel did was flyed on real and get married. But I think your quote is a great point because it shows you that Siegel could also do it if she's not super tired and drained.

24:11 Alone for two days straight, which is not 12 hours. So like any dragon I think could have done the 6th there. Wait. It's more about speed than endurance. But yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that only really works if you're talking about longer than 12 hours, I guess, is what I'm saying. OK, that's interesting.

24:31 So maybe not time manipulation, maybe just fast Dragons and only Taran and Segal when? Maybe, yeah. And I do think we should just kind of assume that Molvic is close to the same level as as Segal given that comment and given the fact that he's also a blue. Yeah, I agree. I don't think I fully appreciate it. Just like how much bigger Taryn and Segal are described to be over every other dragon except for Molvic. Basically, yeah, Molvic.

24:57 I think it's described as a little bit smaller than Segal. Yeah, I don't remember, but I think you're right. I think you're right. OK. And then I had one social media shout out. It was a follow up to your theory that Taryn had to kill Naolan. And it was something that hadn't even occurred to me. I think it might not.

25:12 I don't know if it occurred to you, but our one of our commenters named Taylor said, did he ask Taryn or did Taryn kill him of his own volition? Because Naolan would have siphoned Channel Terence power and killed him. And he did this to protect himself, but also Segal. Yeah. Right, So like that that I think is totally I I kept being like, I don't know, I don't know that Taryn would kill Naola and like he seems really torn up about it. They were really close like, but I think if it was to protect Sigail, yeah, no question he would have done if like if Naolan was going like if Naolan killing Taryn just killed Taryn, I think Taryn might have been like not OK, but been like OK, I accept this as my fate, but the

25:52 fact that it would kill Sigail too. Yeah, that's an interesting thing to ponder because Taryn has multiple times said, Violet, if you go, I go. And like that is also, it's a good point, like means he's OK with Segal dying at that point. That's a good point. So I don't know, like why? Like why now would he be OK with him and Segal? Yeah, dying, I don't know.

26:14 I don't know. But it's a good point. And I haven't really processed it as something that would have been done as but also preservation for Segal. I do think, I think it's more likely if Nalen is dead and Taryn did kill him that Nalen asked. I haven't encountered anyone except for Jack, who's like kind of psychopath who wouldn't give up everything for their dragon.

26:35 Like if Nail and could avoid Taryn being at risk, I feel like he would like I feel like Violet would do that. I feel like Zaden would do that for Segal. But also like, yeah, if Nail and puts the Gale at risk, would Taryn have killed him? Maybe, yeah. Anyway, that was all I had for social media shoutouts.

26:57 OK, so we previously said we're going to do a fun episode. Abby, would you like to explain the rules? Yes, episode. So we are doing today and our next episode as well. We are doing a fantasy draft like fantasy football. And if any of you listen to the Ringer Podcast Network, they do these a lot.

27:15 These were kind of the that was the inspiration for this because I think those are pretty fun podcast episodes. But basically what we've done is we have selected a group of people. So this week it is the Iron Squad and we have asked ourselves a number of questions about the Iron Squad or I'll just give you an example.

27:32 Our first question is going to be who is the most powerful member of the Iron Squad? Ronnie and I each get a pick, but we cannot pick the same people. So we have to have a first pick and a second pick. So Ronnie picks Dane for the first one. I can't pick Dane, for example. We also, I mean, I at least try to keep my answers like it's not all Arik, you know, like Arik, I try to answer for a lot of these, but like we try to mix it up. It's going to be a mix of like fun questions and theory based questions.

28:01 And for today, as I said, we're doing the Iron Squad. So our possible candidates are Dane, RE, Sawyer, Riddick, Arik, Marin and Kat. We threw in Marin and Kat because they are technically members of the Iron Squad. We excluded Violet, obviously we. Excluded Violet. We did exclude Violet. We also excluded all of the dead.

28:22 Like Luca, sorry we hardly knew you, but like, you're not on here. Yeah, we also don't like Luca. We don't like Luca. Luca was a bitch. I guess shouldn't we have included Liam? No, because Liam's next week. Yeah, I guess if you need them to be mutually exclusive, then yeah. We also don't have Imogen Imogen's in this squad technique. Yeah, that's true.

28:42 OK, right. Is she? I don't know. I don't actually know because. She's a year older. I don't know. I don't know how it works. Yeah, but RXC, you're younger. All right, let's just these are the people that we're doing. Today, arc is in Sloane, Liam out. OK, because they are included in next week's when we're going to do this again with the marked ones.

29:02 OK, Yep. All right, So our people again, Dane re, Sawyer, Riddick, arc, Marin cat. All right, anything else before we dive? In No, this will be an adventure. It's. Gonna be. We'll see how it goes, OK. So Abby, I think you've got first pick on the first one. Our first question is who is the most powerful member of the Iron Squad, either because of Cygnus, Dragons or politics. Choose your own definition of most powerful. And we're excluding about it.

29:32 All right, This one is actually probably my most theory heavy and my most fun answer. There is an obvious answer here, right? Arc is the obvious answer. I didn't pick him. OK, so maybe that's good for you. Maybe you picked him? He was I picked. Oh my God. So all right, we're not going to get well.

29:47 We could still talk about him. I'll pick them and explain what? Yeah, that's right. Go ahead. All right, I picked. Cat. Did you pick Cat? OK cool. Couple reasons why I picked Cat over Arc. She is second in line to the throne of Peromial. I realize Arc is first in line. There is second in line to the throne of Navarre. However, Navarre is facing a huge succession crisis. Right to your endorse.

30:11 Definitely about to secede. It's going to be thrown into war. Peromial, even though they're being attacked by Benin is whole peromial as a whole country. There's no rebellion there. There's no revolution. They're just trying to figure their shit out as a unified country as far as we know. So politically, I would say she actually might be slightly powerful than more powerful than arc her signet manipulating people's emotions.

30:33 If you're going to become a leader of a country, that's a fucking terrifying signet to have, right? Like you can just make people. I mean, we know we she can't plant emotions in people, but like she could certainly make people fall in love with her even more. So she has the potential to be a really terrifying.

30:49 I also think we have not fully appreciated how powerful her signet is. She has the ability to not make Violet realize that Zaden is in the room, right. So when Kat and Violet are on the mat, yeah, Zaden shows up on that fight in the middle of that fight, right? Like Zaden shows up and and Violet does not realize that he is there, even though they're bonded, even though he can speak into her mind. Like she literally says like, oh, like someone says off to the side, are you going to stop this? And he says no, I'm going to let it play out. But she does not realize it's Aiden, right? We have previously seen her in when she's in Cordon, when she walks into the room where everyone is and she's wearing that dress.

31:27 She's like, I find Zaidan immediately because he's my gravity, Like, nothing could, like, stop me from finding him, right? They say that to each other all the time. But Cat can just fucking like, make them not make Violet not realize that Satan's there. So I think Cat is like, really, really fucking powerful.

31:44 Yeah, I also think Cat might have the ability to project images into people's minds similarly to potentially mind walking. So this is when Violet and Cat are on the mat again. So this is a this is a passage really. She jabs and I weave the thought that I know what he tastes like. She throws another combination that I block, then retreats as if this was nothing but a test, how his weight feels above me. And then this is Violet, she says. I will not vomit on this mat.

32:11 I refuse, but shit if that picture doesn't play out in my mind as vividly as a nightmare. Her hands on his skin, her mouth on the curling lines of his rebellion relic. Envy and anger roar in my ears, dulling my senses, and I blink rapidly to clear the image. But heat prickles within my prickles my skin as power rises within me.

32:29 So like images playing out in Violet's mind that she did not seem to want could be involuntary, like jealousy. Like, sure, I can understand that. But she also says heat prickles my skin. And we know that when Zayden was reading Violet's mind, it was described as a prickling feeling, right? So is this cat actually projecting images into Violet's mind? I don't know.

32:50 But if it is, once again, she's like, crazy, crazy, crazy powerful. That might be all I had, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think Cat definitely is super powerful. I think it's interesting how little exposure we have to the magnitude of what Griffin's channel, because I feel like we've been led to believe it's generally weaker, but then we know that there are drifts of Griffins that have defeated riots of Dragons. I kind of feel like that's just our own internal biases because we live in the heads of writers in this book, right? But it's interesting, as I noted though, as we were going through this, because we don't know what Marin does, do we? No.

33:28 We don't know what Marin signet is. So like also Cat, I don't know. Interesting. Yeah, I do think Cat's super powerful. I do think as far as politics go, I I don't know that I would say point blank that her from a politics perspective outranks Arik in terms of power, because peromial is like falling.

33:48 Yeah, actively. But yeah, she her signet is way sorry. Gift is way more permittable as a ruler. Yeah, I think it's interesting with the arc. I agree with you. Like, yeah, like the the throne of Navarre is definitely more powerful than the throne of Paromial. But it's always when there's like precognition, right?

34:09 When that's like something that's in play, it never plays out the way you think it's going to, right? Like when someone has that ability, it's like, yeah, they can see the future, but they can see like bits and pieces of it. I mean, we don't know what Arc Signet really is yet. We don't know how he sees it. Obviously, so far he's been like, correct about things. But I feel like it's one of those things where there's always a downfall, a kill switch to it, basically. So that was why I picked Cat over Arc. Although we'd love, I love Arc, you know it. But anyway, who was your pick?

34:37 Well I'm going to make my pick is going to be ARC because I do think the right answer. Like he is a full precog. He has been manifesting the entire time without us knowing. We really do not know the full extent of his signet because the only way we find out that he's manifesting is because he gave something to Violet and Violet realized it.

34:56 Like, we do not know what's going on in his head. We do not know like whether he sees literally every possibility to what level of detail. Like I think there's a lot untold there that could make Arc really, really powerful as a ruler. And then I also think we've not paid enough attention to Molvic. Like Molvic is the blue club tail. We know that Blues are merciless. Like the only bonded blue I think that we know is Seagal. Seagal I think also actually.

35:26 That's a great. Point as one with a massive scar across his snout. So that also tells me that he's been a battle dragon and has been around, obviously, like everyone is wondering about every dragon. Like who else have they been bonded to in the past? But like he's got a clear mark of battle and power.

35:44 There have been passive comments about Molvic that have made me think that he's huge. One the the comment that we just talked about where only the larger Dragons can fly for two straight days. Terrence Gill and Mulvik, maybe. There's also a comment that I actually read back and thought was really funny by Riddick. They were like, strategizing about how they could possibly fly fast enough with Griffins in tow. And Riddick says, can't you see Kiriller snuggled up in Mulvik's claw?

36:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in Mulvik's claw is all Griffin cats Griffin, by the way. So are we being led to an arc cat situation? Don't know. I really talk about a formidable pair though. My God, could you imagine if the two of them nightmare? I do think it's interesting we haven't gotten an auric love interest yet.

36:35 Like he's so fucking sexy. Yeah, but I also think he slated himself to die. Like, he doesn't seem like he's super interested in matters of emotion in this series. Yeah. So no, I think that's a great. Arc is super powerful. I hadn't even thought about Mobic. Have we talked about before? I feel like maybe we have. I feel like there's some comment or some point about Blues going for royalty because like, Zaden is like a Duke is, yeah, Zaden's a Duke and then Arc is a Prince.

37:07 Like Blues have some affiliation with like royal lines or something. But I could have made that. Up No, I think we've only talked about Blues potential connection to Unreal. I don't think we've talked about never mind nobility, but I mean that is the pattern that we currently see, right? We know two bonded Blues and they are bonded to nobility. They have good taste.

37:27 They have good taste, yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah, OK. Our next one. Right, who is the most likely to betray Violet Ronnie? You get first pick. Yeah, I don't think you're going to like my answer. This one I don't have a ton of theories on. I'm just like I'm riffing. Yeah, I should clarify. I don't think either of us necessarily think anyone's going to betray Violet.

37:48 But like, it's just a question. This is a. Fun, Like if we had to pick someone who would we pick? My first pick is Riddick but I think he would be doing it for Violet's own good. Like Riddick definitely does not give two shits about Zaden and he makes it very clear when he finds out that Zaden is Vennon. He calls him like a dark wielder to his face and he's like Violet you tell me everything right now. I could see Riddick and I honestly think this is probably the most likely case for like anybody in this. I could see Riddick betraying Violet not in giving up Violet explicitly but making her think he's helping her find and cure Zaden but actually not be working towards the saving part. Like actually be working towards

38:27 this is for your own good. Like we need to end this once and for all. He also heard from the Eared's mouth that there's no cure. So he probably, I think that all then and have to just be killed. And so I think even though Reddick is like our kind of token Violet supporter in every situation, I do think his incentives are not aligned with Violets at all. Like Violet wants to save Zayden, Riddick wants to protect Violet.

38:52 Those two things do not necessarily go in the same. Direction, yeah, I think you're right too, because we get the scene about where is the line, right? Yeah, right. And you don't, you don't have a scene like that. If there's not a scene where the line is, then. The line is crossed. Yeah, and there are consequences for that.

39:08 Yeah. So it's really shitty because the line was hurting Violet, right? So although one could argue but that by disappearing and erasing her memories, Zayden has of course hurt Violet. So it might not mean like physically, it might just mean emotionally. But yeah, yeah. I think I'd be right. If I had to pick one, that's where I'd pick. Who would you pick?

39:26 I picked Marin. You just mentioned we don't know what her signet is. We don't. Yeah. So like, and it's probably mine work. Who knows? Who knows what she's doing over there, right. And it's. I think it's very interesting that Violet has never asked Marin. Hey, Marin, what's your signet? What's what's your gift?

39:40 Whatever she out of everyone has had the most, like, personal loss in this war, right? Like she lost both her parents, her brothers were, but she lost both her parents. And not only did she lose both her parents in the war, Theophany was specifically setting a trap for Violet right? Like that was Violet is directly responsible for her parents, not responsible, but like there's a clear through line between Violet and her parents death right?

40:05 So like, I could see that getting really ugly and twisted. She she and she literally said that losing her family was her worst nightmare, right? That's what she says to Violet. And then they died. I like that's not that's not something that you like easily forgive and forget. Yeah. And then the other clue, which we did talk about in our Gods and Isles episode, is that she gets the orange tunics as her gift from Zenal.

40:28 And Brennan has been using orange flags to denote Fennon attacks on the map, so that's just a little like connection. The orange tunics could also represent her brothers, obviously, but that was my thinking. I do think also Marin has never been, I mean, she's a very sweet person in these books, so she's never been antagonistic, but her best friend is also Cat. And you could argue the Violet took a lot away from Cat in the whole Satan's situation.

40:52 Not intentionally, obviously, and Cat probably never would have had it to begin with because Satan broke it all off before they were even a thing. But even just in like the spirit of Girl Code, like she's probably, I don't know, not loyal to Violet, even if Cat is. Married from the get go is so reasonable and level headed about everything.

41:13 Like where did you come from? Like, you're so great. Yeah. So again, like, I don't really think that she will betray Violet. I don't. But I could see how if things start to go South or if something else happens or she's like, OK, enough is enough. Fuck this bitch. She is responsible for my parents dying.

41:31 Yeah, I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Who is the most unlikely couple in the Iron squad? Abby, you've got first pick. OK, I picked I picked Ree and Riddick. Interesting. And I want to caveat this with I think they both be very good partners. Yeah. Like, I think they'd both be wonderful, but I just get really strong sibling vibes from both of them.

41:57 Yeah. Like, I think of them as siblings. So fighting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially in her chapter. She was just like Riddick. Focus. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I do think they would have very fun sex because they're both bisexual and seem to have a lot of fun. Yeah. But I don't think, yeah, I just get real sibling guys from them.

42:17 So I think that is off limits. We're not doing that, Rebecca. I don't think she would do that, but. Yeah, especially since I feel like Reeve's situation ship with Tara is very much alive and well. OK, I was going back and looking at this and like this is so classic girl behavior with your friend, right?

42:35 Like Ree and 4th wing is so supportive of violets. I'll say sexual conquest every scenario. Like she's like, oh, you want to get with Dane? You should absolutely get with Dane. Like he's not. Who cares that? He And when she sees Zadan's flight jacket, she's like, what's it good? Yeah, I love you.

42:54 And I forgot about that because I think every is kind of like she's like squad leader. She's like kind of discipline and button up, but she's like won't date Tara because Tara is like it's too she has too much responsibility. So this is what I'm getting at. It's it's such a classic girl thing, right? To like encourage your friends to live their best lives and to go after it.

43:13 But then to be like, but I can't have I can't do that for myself. Right, right. It's so I just like realized that and I was like, Oh my God, IA 100% identify with this. Like you go re. But yeah, I'm like, just be with Tara. Like it's OK, Like relax, you know, you don't re. I get what you're saying.

43:30 You're squad leader, but you don't have more responsibilities than Violet who is now fucking. Of Tyrandor. Like don't. Yeah. And certainly not Zayden, who was Duke of Tyrandor before this all happened. Right, right, right, right. You're just kind of making excuses. So maybe Bree and Tara aren't end game.

43:45 I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. OK, that's a good one. Who did you pick? I think my OK this is not my pick but I will say it popped into my head and I thought it was hilarious. Like I thought I was being hilarious. I first thought not my pick was Riddick and Arc because could you imagine someone so serious being with someone?

44:05 So I'm serious no arc sexuality. I don't even know if that's the problem possibility. It did just occur to me qualifying it, yeah. No, it did just occur to me that maybe ARC is gay because we haven't gotten any love interest for him yet. Yeah. But if he was gay like we've gotten of interest from other.

44:21 Gays. I know, I know, I know, I. Know I don't feel like that's a reason. I do think he's genuinely like I do not have time for love. I am. He may bring the fucking world actually. OK my actual pic is is actually Dane and Ree. I can't explain it. It just doesn't work. Like they to me are the same people. Like they're literally the same people. Like Dane is like an evolved like rule follower who's like a natural born leader and is like learning how to break rules. And Ree is also like a natural born leader who's becoming less of a rule follower over time.

44:53 But they are like basically the same character in Violet's life that both give like, elder sibling vibes. And like, they can't, yeah. They don't belong together. Like, I cannot. I I actually like, yeah. I can't even picture them like kissing in my mind. That's OK. Yeah, I know. I OK, so my second pick, I know I didn't have to make a second pick, but I did make a second pick for everything.

45:14 My second pick was Dane and Marin. And then I was thinking about it and I was like, I know everyone's all like, oh, Dane is so sexy now with the whole eyes here thing. But like, I'm still not, I'm still not super on board with Dane. I don't know. I'm still not like he seems very vanilla. I don't know.

45:30 I'm not. I mean he differently is yeah. I pictured Dane as like a light brown haired individual. Like I basically picture him as like AKL Westfall type. I exactly. In my head and I'm just like you would probably be a good time, but I'm certainly not going to go out of my way for. Any type of thing.

45:49 Well, and I think this is funny, right, because I think this gets back to Violet being our narrator, right? Because, like, she no longer thinks Dana's sexy, so we no longer think Dana's like, yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, people who follow our Instagram know this. I had a big 180 on KLS Falls.

46:06 So not that I I mean, maybe I think he's sexy now. I don't know. But yeah, no, I think you're right. I think it's a good analogy anyway. All right, that was a fun one. I was like, I don't know that this question is going to go anywhere, but I enjoyed that. All right. Whose signet is keeping in the same vein?

46:19 Whose signet would be the worst to accidentally wield during sex? Definitely riddicks. OK, I asked. So I have to do my second pick. I have a second pick if you need 1. So for clarification, Riddick's signet is ice wielding and we learned that he can like freeze living beings, right? And so I'm just picturing like what has.

46:39 So obviously we know when Zaden and Violet get it on, they like wield like crazy wielding like uncontrolled wielding at a certain point in the event. OK. And imagine if just you like froze your partner, like what do you do? Or maybe freezing your partner's not be accurate like way to think about it, because like Violet does not strike Baden with lightning, right, but like.

47:02 Just. Frost over the entire room like no horrible horrible no. So Riddick is my pick. Riddick was my pick too, I said. On the other hand, if it was wielded intentionally, potential for fun there. Could be fun, could be fun. My second pick was Dane. Interesting, right? Not a physical thing, but I feel like it could be a huge violation.

47:23 Basically. Like, it's not really a fun answer, but like, in the same way that he, like, steals Violet's memories, kind of. I'm like, yeah, OK, if you just like uncontrollably wielded when like while we were having sex and then just knew my whole life, I wouldn't feel super comfortable about that. You know, yeah.

47:39 It's not as fun an answer. So my my second pick was Reese because I was just picturing shit like Fly. Like. If everything just came like towards you. That's a better second pick, actually. That one's more fun. But I do, you're right. Like, I don't know what Dane would see, but it could definitely be violating, Yeah.

48:01 Not a very fun answer, sorry guys. But that's, yeah, I don't know. Who knows, maybe we'll get some Dane's sex scene, so we'll see. What? Happens. Yeah, we'll figure it out, I guess. OK, whose signet would be the best to accidentally wield during sex? Abby, you've got first pick in my view. There's one answer to this question, so I'm super curious what you said. I'm actually going to say cat, I think. That's the right answer.

48:21 I think Cat could be fun. Definitely. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Like Cat could be super heighten everything. Yeah, she could heighten everything. She may or may not be able to, like, put images into your mind. Yeah, Cat, that's the answer. Yeah, cool cat. Yeah. So my second pick, because I cat was my first pick, my pick would be actually Dane because because I think it would be fun if he could see like just recently, like basically see what you have just experienced. It would be fun for him if he could see your memories of what had happened over the last like 10 minutes or the. Way that Zayden and Violet.

48:57 Yeah, right. Yeah, that could be fun for Dane. Not fun for me. Could be fun for Dane. Fun for Dane, yeah. Especially if Dane has like a vanity thing, which I sense he does, honestly, yeah. I put so I I had this question slightly differently and I had who would be the most fun in bed and I had my first pick is Riddick.

49:15 I think Riddick Riddick would be very fun in bed. But my second pick, who we haven't talked about at all, so I feel the need to give him a shout out here, is Sawyer. Because I just feel like Sawyer Rebecca talked about on one of her tours that she feels bad that she's not giving him enough attention. But I think Sawyer seems very sweet and I think he has big man written by woman vibes.

49:36 He actually might be the KOS fell of this. That's true. You might. I mean, that's a little on the nose, but sure. Oh yeah, you're right, it is. Fuck, I think about that. He just seems like a giver. I don't know, just seems like. Yeah, I mean, he doesn't. I mean, all these men are givers. But like, he's learning sign language for Justinia. That's very sweet.

49:55 Yeah. True. So I feel like shout out to Sawyer, which I. And then I realized this question is funny because the one I'm actually in love with, which I talk about all the time, is Aric. But he did not make my place. Yeah, I just don't think he gives like, fun. Well, fun in bed. What was your question?

50:09 Was it fun in bed or best in bed? I said. Fun. OK, yeah I probably wouldn't pick ARC. I would pick ARC for best though. Perfect. Yeah. What about ARC gives you? I mean, yeah, yeah. He's just very good at everything. I don't know, I just maybe I'm just saying I think arcs really attractive. No explanation in my mind, I just think that he is. I obviously completely agree.

50:30 I think Arc is incredibly. Attractive. I don't. I wouldn't. Have a strong picture of what he looked like. Is he blonde? I think he's blonde. Wait. And I'm not. No, I think he's. I think he's. Like a sand, like a like. Medium brunette. Yeah, like somewhere in between. Like a like a golden, like can I tell you actually something that annoys me so much since we're rereading a guitar. Sure.

50:52 The whole brown hair wrapped in golden strands that the Archer on sisters have. I'm like, are they brunette or are they blonde? What are what are we doing? They're brunette with. Blonde highlights. That's very normal. That's what I think too. But then there's all this art online where they're blonde.

51:07 I'm like. No, they're definitely not blonde. 0 out of 10 on that. I feel like their hair color is like what mine was when I spent time in the sun. Yeah, and I can see I yeah, right, like a light. Brunette Yeah, yeah, I agree, right. Anyway, but I actually can I change my answer for that I think would be most fun and bad question.

51:24 Definitely cat. I'm choosing cat for that one. You might be right my answer for that. One has foxed him. Yeah, and taught him things and taught him things. Yeah. So that's my official. Official. So now I do. But I didn't answer. Now I do want Kat and R to fuck just to see what would happen. For fun, one time, no more. Remember when Ree and Sawyer?

51:46 Fucked. I actually blacked that out. I blacked it out. I actually did black it out like I, yeah, completely forgot about it until this moment. Ree and Sawyer had sex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Isn't that gross? Yeah, I don't care for it, OK. And is maybe the only man that Ree has slept with FS guy so maybe he's not good in bed. Maybe she was like, I'm done with Med. Yeah, who does?

52:14 I don't know. OK, All right, I'll, I'll ask you the next one. This one's not so fun, and I think I know your answer. Who is the most likely member of the Iron Squad to die? I had my first to second pick here was a close call but my first pick is going to be Riddick because he's already cheated death twice and he's on the 3rd. So just clarification right?

52:36 Riddick has almost died. I'm going to say almost in quotes here. Almost died 2 times in the series before 1 when he was shot with an arrow during Wyvern attack and pilot was freaking out and Brennan had to come mend him. And the second when he almost gets stabbed with a chef's knife in the kitchen.

52:53 But then he wasn't actually stabbed and his gift from Zenal was a kiss. And a lot of people actually think that that kiss means that Luck loves him and he's going to be lucky forever. Which I could see because he is the human embodiment of just Yoloing and being lucky throughout this entire series. But I worry that it actually means that Luck is going to betray him.

53:15 What does it say about us that we see a kiss and we think, Oh, no, death, death, death, death like. That's not me. I feel like it means that I went to Catholic school, which is exactly what happened. Yes, my first pick was also Riddick. He's getting a lot of screen time, a lot of screen time for supporting character. That usually doesn't mean good things, but we'll see. My second pick, who I'm gonna guess was also your second pick, is Arc.

53:42 Because of the quote. I will fight in this swarm, most likely die and do so knowing that I protected others. So I wrote down here like, does this also give us some insight into his signet, right? Because he said most likely not, I will. So either he was just the most likely answer is that he was just trying to let people know he's not a pre cock. Like he's not trying to give away. Oh yeah, I'm going to fight in this war and die. But it could also mean that again, there's like multiple paths to choose from here.

54:06 And like some of them ended his death, some of them don't. I'm praying for the one that doesn't. Let's hope. Yeah, but I think you're exactly right. Like I interpreted that quote as I see 10 different paths and and eight of them I don't make it basically is how I thought in answering that or saying that, saying what he said there. Yeah, he was my second pick.

54:25 OK. Who do you think will play the biggest role in the upcoming books? I kind of had a tie for this one. Why don't we just talk through our answers for this one, not do them draft style. Does that work? Because sure, For me, the entire answer here hinges on who the 4th writer is that goes with them.

54:41 So in my mind, it's either Dane or Arc, and it could be both of them because we've talked about how they're playing to their probably playing two different sides of this. Like one of them is with Violet, one of them is with Zayden. I think it's gonna be one of them, maybe both of them. Have you noticed that Kath and Mulvik are next to each other a lot? Like they land next to each other a lot. They fly next to each other in formation. I've definitely not caught on to this. I like their mate in.

55:07 My head, I'm kind of like they're besties, like because they're both male, Like I don't know whether animals can be. Home. I'm sure, I'm sure this is Rebecca's world. I'm sure they can be. But I don't know they. Haven't had any same sex. Dragons. Dragon baits. Well, we don't know We. Don't know the genders of those other Dragons whose names I can't.

55:27 Remember, yeah, I don't know, but I do think it's interesting that they are together like calf and molvic occur many like more than once, which is like enough. I love this, Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm so. Bad at paying attention to the Dragons. It's really it's a fault on my end, but. I Loki, love the Dragons.

55:47 They're kind of like my fave. Anyways, you you were saying about about the biggest role hinging on who's the 4th rider. Yeah. I just think it's it's kind of so you're. Assuming so, just for everybody who's listening, right, You're assuming that there are. So we know that there are four riders, right?

56:05 The third is the brother, the 4th is who knows? And so you are making an assumption that the third, the brother is neither of them. And so one of them is with them. You're assuming the brother is Bodie. Yes, sorry. And we're talking about the four missing riders at the end of Onyx Storm. Yeah. Also to clarify, we had a girl comment this morning, maybe I don't remember, but it was on our clip about who killed the elder.

56:24 She's like, wait, when did the Elders die? And I'm like girl. You got one like that too? I sympathize with you. I understand. I also miss this. Clearly it was a big moment. Like there are dead elders and I'm like a girl. We had the same moment. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. So we are talking about the four missing riders at the antibiotic storm.

56:43 Yeah, we talked about in our last episode. Who we think those 4 missing riders most likely are? We think Zadan, Garrick and Bodie are pretty much a shoo in and then the 4th could either be Dane or Arik. Therefore I think either Dane or ARE has the biggest role to play, but we're not sure which one it is.

57:02 Who did you have for this? Verbatim I wrote. I mean, definitely ARC, but that's no fun like it is, I mean. It's arc. It's ARC, yeah. See, at the at the end of Onyx Storm, it is revealed that arc is a full precog. Like it's this like, Oh my gosh moment where we know that he knows so much more than we do and that we ever suspected that he knew. I don't know where he is now.

57:26 Like yeah, like you mentioned, like is he is he with Violet? Is he with Zaden? But no matter what like he is if this is a chess board, like he is the queen on the. Chess board, yeah. Like he is like the wild card of just like could go anywhere, could wreck anyone. Like I do think he'll he'll play the biggest role.

57:45 And it's interesting too, because it's almost the opposite of what I said actually, right? It's whoever has stayed with Violet. Assuming these books continue to be written only from Violets POV. If I agree with you, ARC is now probably the most important player on the board. But if he has gone with Zaden and if we don't get Zaden for a while, then he's got like a smaller role. You got what I'm saying?

58:07 Like less screen time? But still a few time. But he's a more critical. Yeah. I think either way, whoever he's with, whoever he's with is going to be working off of information that nobody else has access to. Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah, So my second pick actually was Cat, which was kind of a sleeper pick, I think. But I, I do think her role becomes super important now because Tyrandor is now kind of like in the center of this alliance between Navarre and peromial, because Tyrandor is clearly not in Navarre's favor currently. Like they've opened his borders and was like, F you like I'm not seceding, but like I'm not listening to you and I command my own forces.

58:48 Tyrion Door is now like a super important chip between peromial and Navarre. And peromial I think will always choose Tyrion Door over an alliance with Navarre. And so Cat being there and being a member of Peromish nobility, I think it's going to matter a lot. Like, I think she's going to hold a lot of weight in like the politics that follow this like, rather messy outcome.

59:11 Yeah, I think you could be right. Because peromial could easily be like, OK, Carrie Navarre, like if Terendor is not with you and you're gonna say like, we have to choose basically like we're going right, Terendor. Like absolutely they have the. Teladium, yeah, all the teladium, all of the physical advantage as far as I.

59:29 Truly wonder if any other podcasts that cover this book talk about Teladium as. Much as we do is important. The ORS are important. Palladium and Mayor's site, they're gonna be big, OK? Gonna be big. Heard it here first. Yeah, yeah. I think it's me. Really interesting to see how that plays out. I think it also could get back to using marriage for alliances. I do think we could end up in a cat arc world. I think that's possible, say.

59:55 Yeah, I mean, that would be so crazy though, would it? Like I don't know, it would just be like a little bit too picture perfect of an ending like second in line to Pyromish Throne marrying second in line to Navarian Throne I. Think one of them would have to die? Yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're right. I don't know, Yeah, I also feel like could you imagine Cat being Cat and Arc just like dealing with it like I. 1st we both agree she's gotten a lot better.

1:00:25 I do, yeah. I'm a fan of Cat's character. I just don't think, like, Arc seems pretty in. Like he's intolerant of Zayden as a hot head. Like, what of Cat? Like, yeah. I don't know. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. Yeah. I really thought we were going for ARC Sloan, and then it was Nope, Dane Sloan. Dane Sloan.

1:00:44 Yeah, I'm pro. Dane Sloan though this. Character is on Grey's Anatomy. Dane Sloan. Maybe I'm making that up. You know what it is I? Think that's. Fine, whatever. Cut that part out, all right? Yeah, all right. So biggest role probably are baby cat. I forgot her name for a second. Maybe Cat? Catriona, yeah. The thing is, with Cat being in line, killing Serena would. Suck, I know.

1:01:13 Like Halden dead, fine we hate him like it's OK but like Serena dying? Which is a bummer. Yeah, I know. I actually feel like Serena, if she's gonna die, she's gotta get some more screen time before she dies because right now I'm like, I would be really sad, but it would be like she's like off in the distance.

1:01:30 I haven't seen her and. Yeah. So if we start getting more Serena and before be very concerned about it, be concerned. Yeah, OK. Who is this our last one? Are we on the last one? I think we're on the last one and I actually didn't take any notes for this, so it's going to be a complete pick on the fly. Who's your favorite member of the Iron Squad? I feel like we've both already answered this. I mean my favorite member of the Iron Squad to read is Riddick. Like he is hilarious.

1:01:55 He is the funniest character by far. Yeah. So to give you the pic that I know we both want, I'm going to say Riddick. Like he actually I have not laughed. There were two lines in this series that have made me laugh really, really hard. One is Jude. One was when and Darna and Darna said can you fly insulted Taryn.

1:02:20 That one was hilarious. And then the other one was when they were riding on horses in Deverelli. And that whole exchange occurs and Riddick's like. I'm so glad I got on this. Horse. I love him. I think he's so funny. So he's probably my favorite Iron Squad member and would also be like, I'm kind of defining this question as like, who would you most like want to get a beer with?

1:02:39 Like hang out with Riddick would be a great time. Yeah, I don't disagree. It's ARC for me though, yeah. No, I know it's also ARC for me, but that was a favorite to you, Yeah. In my notes, he's hands down the most noble. He's hot, he's got nerves of steel, he's playing the long game, he's really powerful.

1:02:58 He's so defensive of Violet. He's the only one who's not afraid to challenge Zayden. Although I think Riddick also falls under that category now. But he from day one is like, fuck you Zayden, you killed my brother, which I think is fair. I think that's fair. He did kill his brother. Yeah. And we're just kind of forgetting about that, I guess. Yeah.

1:03:16 But it's our, I feel like we've covered it. Why? I do think it's interesting that Sawyer got basically no pics in this track. I know, I know. He's also had not had a lot of screen time. Like Rebecca is kind of right. Like she has kind of forgotten him. We had, I actually am surprised by it because we had like a whole plot line about like Sawyer getting back on a dragon.

1:03:38 And it was like a big thing that we were, like, trying to work towards after he lost his leg, Like, get back on the dragon. Like, don't give up. Don't talk about, like, becoming one of the retired writers. Like, you can do this. And then he did. And then it was just over. And then right. And I was like, OK, we're going to move right along. Like, yeah.

1:03:58 And it's hard to know if that was intentional on Rebecca's part and she's like fucking with our emotions or if it was just a plot line that didn't didn't hit for whatever reason. Yeah. And it's Sawyer is nothing, has done nothing but be like, wonderful, right? Like he repeated first year, like he did all this again, which is like, kind of really, that takes a lot of perseverance and it's very admirable. But he's still just kind of like a cool Sawyer, you know? Yeah.

1:04:25 It's a shame. I do think him and Jacinia are very sweet though. Yeah, I'm a fan of that. Like my heart does break a little bit because obviously, like at the start it was Liam and Jacinia. So like. I know that's very sad. Adored that. Would have adored it. And now I just also love the idea of, like, big bad rider Liam with Jacinia the scribe. And now, like, that's still the case. But like, Sawyer obviously has like, a much more tragic, like, aura about him and that he is an amputee. Yeah, with a scribe.

1:04:58 And I'm like, don't just like do this because you're a natural pair. No, I agree, like Liam and Jacinia and what's also nice about Liam and Jacinia, I kind of miss this, but rereading like Liam fucks a lot in the first book, which I kind of miss, but like Liam is out here. Yeah, I'm having a good time. Like arise like buttoning a shirt and I'm like. Yeah, like, yeah, after threshing, he's like, got a girl, like, around his arm or something. Like, he's out here getting it.

1:05:26 And he still was going to pick Justinia, which is just, like, so sweet And like, Sawyer, it's not quite that, quite that bad. I don't know. All right, P Liam, we fucking miss you. I miss you so much. Even this conversation about Sawyer has turned into a conversation about Lee. I know Sawyer, unfortunately, is forgettable. There's not.

1:05:46 We need to turn that around. I'm open to offering up ideas, Rebecca, for how we can bring him back into the ball, I don't know. I feel bad, like I don't feel like he's boring. I just feel like I don't have that much to say about him. I don't know. Yeah. OK. All right. That was fun. That was fun. I hope you guys liked it, but we still trying some I'm trying some fun episodes.

1:06:05 Yeah, the episodes not we're still doing precog and I like I know we talked about how we handle precog for these episodes. I think we can either do regular precogs about these people or like theory of the moment or just like precog. Like sometimes their precogs are just out there and that's fine. So it's time for precog corner Abby. You do do, yes.

1:06:24 All right, what is your precog corner? So I dug into, I can't not do a little theory talk. So I actually took some time. It's not really precog, but I think that fits with all this. I dug into the names of these characters and their meanings, and two of them actually have very interesting names. So Dane HOS is a very interesting name, and Rhiannon Matthias is also a very interesting name. I don't know if you also did this, it'd be a bummer if you did.

1:06:49 I'm assuming you did. All right, so I'm going to start with Dane in Norse Mesol. There are three Danes and I just, I just literally Googled, what does the name Dane mean? There's three Danes. One of them is a dwarf. Oh God, I'm going to fucking butcher this. I don't know how you say this. I'm sorry, don't come at me.

1:07:04 One of the four stags of Yeek Yeek Dressil. So like a dwarf and a mythical stag. Then the last one, the last Dane in Norse mythology is an elf who introduces runes to his race. So I thought that was interesting. Right, So we have a connection to runes here with the name Dane. Obviously right now we don't see any obvious connection, but we don't know who Danes mother is right.

1:07:27 So I'm like, OK, does Dane have perhaps a connection to tier and or a connection to the ruins through his mother? We don't know. We don't know that we don't know what happens there. So that was interesting with the name Dane. The name Atos though, is incredibly interesting. So Atos means eagle in Greek, but it can also refer to other large carnivorous birds.

1:07:46 So an Atos can be any large carnivorous bird. Obviously Griffins come to mind in that, right? So again, is there some connection through Jane's mother? Was she Peromish? Is there a Griffin connection? Atos was also besides just meaning eagle and Greek, Atos was a specific character in Greek mythology. Atos was known as the earth born childhood companion of Zeus, right?

1:08:10 So childhood companion, who does that sound like? That sounds like Dane and Violet, right? So the story is Atos was a beautiful boy born of the earth and he was like Zeus's best friend when they were growing up. While Zeus was young and hiding in Crete from his father Atos, Zeus became friends with Zeus and was the first one to swear fealty to him as new king.

1:08:30 But years later, after Zeus had overthrown his father and become king in his place, Zeus's wife Hira turned Aetos into an eagle out of fear that Zeus was in love with him. Right? So I'm seeing a lot of parallels here between Aetos, Zeus and Hira and Violet, Dane and Zeidan, right? So we have Aetos was a childhood companion of Zeus. We have Dane being a childhood companion of Violet. We have Hira becoming is it Hera or Hera I? Thought it was Hera.

1:08:58 Sorry, we have Hera becoming very jealous of Aetos, right? We have Zaden getting more and more jealous of Dane throughout Onyx Storm, to the point where Hera turns Aetos into an actual eagle. So obviously I don't think Zaden's going to turn Dane into an eagle. I am wondering if that jealousy plot line is going to turn into Zaden harming Dane somehow and maybe that's the line that Zaden crosses where Riddick is like OK this, he's crossed the line here. Like there's no coming back from that. Yeah, that would be sad.

1:09:30 I know. I do feel like Zadan's going to have some, Like, there's no way that we would keep hearing about this, like continued loss of emotion. And it doesn't result in him doing something that he really deeply regrets. Obviously, he regrets turning, but I don't think that's his deepest fear. Like, his deepest fear is not hurting himself.

1:09:45 His deepest fear is hurting other people and not being able to control himself. So maybe it comes through. And Dane. Yeah, we'll see. That's just a name connection there that I thought was interesting. And obviously Atos is such a specific name. I think it's probably pointing towards this and it's just kind of flipped gender flipped on its head, which is interesting. Right.

1:10:08 And then Rhiannon. So Rhiannon is a figure in Welsh. Welsh mythology means great queen or goddess, which of course, is interesting because when we first meet Rhiannon, she's described as looking like very similar to Amari. Like if Amari were made flesh, she would look like Rhiannon. Yeah. She, in Welsh mythology has a strong association with horses, which were believed to be able to travel between this world and the other world, a parallel realm of God's spirits and possibly the dead that existed alongside the mortal world, right? So we've kind of talked about this. If Violet is touched by Malik is like she now more connected to the dead.

1:10:47 We've also talked about, do the gods physically exist? Maybe there's a spirit world here that we're not totally clear on. And like the aisles are not on the fucking map, right? Like who knows? I don't really think the aisles are in a spirit world, but just kind of spitballing here. The other interesting point about this spirit world that Rhiannon is supposed to be able to traverse is that time is said to move differently there, right? We've got all these Asher things. How did he have time to do this?

1:11:11 How do you have time to do this? The ear, it seemed to work on a different time scale. Obviously Rihanna was not part of Quest squad. She did not go on on these on on this trip, but is there some connection there with the aisles with time moving differently and this Welsh spirit world? The other thing I think was interesting.

1:11:27 Remember I said Rhiannon had a strong association with horses and Welsh mythology. The boots that Ree is wearing when they when we first meet her, when she's about to cross parapet are equestrian boots, right. So that points to this connection towards horses. Yeah, true. So does she have some connection to the spirit world? Is she going to play a part in it? I think it, I think it's an interesting question. Yeah.

1:11:50 And then the other thing is that Rhiannon is described as a sovereignty goddess. So she's a figure that represents the land itself and grants legitimacy to rulers through marriage or alliance, right. So this idea of her representing the land itself, and we've talked about the source potentially being the land itself and we've talked about re being associated with Amari.

1:12:09 I think there's just like a lot of interesting symbolism happening here with these names. So may or may not turn into anything. I just thought it'd be a fun exercise. Yeah, interesting. I know. I think I feel like the fact that RE looks like so people in our comments and I'm sure Instagram gets them to love to draw parallels between the Iron Squad and the gods and like RE. No one's doing that on Instagram. A rude compared to Omari a lot Riddick is compared to Zenal a lot, Zayden is compared to Dune and Violet is compared to Malik. So it's interesting to think about this like I don't know connection between RE and like.

1:12:49 I also feel like equestrians and horses in general are associated with nobility and Amari is queen of the gods. OK, I like it. Yeah, just a fun one, no real theory. A lesson in names. Yeah, a lesson in names all. Right. I went a totally different direction and just have like normal precog theories. Unfortunately no good.

1:13:10 So this precog corner theory is about the cure. And it basically came off of the back of this doubling down that we started with at the beginning of this episode. And I'm going to preface this period with there are crazy theories that I think actually like might end up being the way that the book goes. And there are crazy theories where I'm like this just could like could happen, has enough, but like, I don't actually think it's going to happen.

1:13:35 So I'll start with like, I don't actually think that this is going to be real, but I do think we should talk about it because I think there's enough and it's actually kind of like a sweet message as well. So I think this book, like this series might just be one massive story about addiction. The earids and Jack have both said there is no cure and that becoming venom is a choice. This was mentioned in our comments section by don't the handle is don't ask and multiple others not don't ask who the person was.

1:14:06 So so we learned this right. Like we hear it from Jack very early on, like there's no cure. We don't want to be cured. And the Irids also say there is no cure and yet we proceed to just toil and toil over this cure, Especially Zaden. Zaden particular has been obsessed with finding the cure. And it kind of reminds me of someone who's like in the throes of addiction who thinks they literally cannot live without the substance that they are addicted to or they can't find a way out. Like they're doomed.

1:14:35 They're just spiraling down. They have to have it or they'll die. Like there's no way out. And in some cases, in real life addiction, right, they will. And that's what rehab is for, is like weaning off of it. But if in many cases, like they don't and they can be weaned off of it and this is, you know, able to be overcome.

1:14:51 We're told that once you start down the vending path, it's impossible, right? To come out of it like you're like, OK, like there is no cure. There is only control. But there's no cure. But there's only control. What if there is legitimately no cure Because channeling from the source is just a choice? Like it is legitimately a choice, a choice that you fully have the power to choose used to never make again. Let's talk a little bit about the venom that we have seen that are like starved from not channeling, right? We've got Jack who killed his dragon, so he doesn't have like a an OK source of power now.

1:15:24 And we've also seen that one venom in the ribostat chest who was being starved like being cut off from channeling. Venom can't survive without power. They waste away without access to it. We've seen that. But have we ever actually seen someone die from not channeling? Like, we've never actually seen a Venom like genuinely starve and die.

1:15:42 Yeah, we haven't. And we also haven't seen a Venom continue to have access to a dragon. And when you think about riders, right, like once they start channeling that power, like if their dragon dies, like if that source of power goes away, like they're dead. So we know that venom get really weak when they can't channel, but we've not seen any of them die.

1:16:01 We think they can't survive without power. But again, we we've not seen like a case where a Venom continues to have access to a dragon. So I guess what I'm getting at is what if the answer to all of this is the venom just have to choose to stop, like choose to never channel again. And those who just don't have access to a safe power source, like maybe that's it for them.

1:16:20 But if you can survive through a dragon until your death, like do you just live a normal course of life? Like it's it's simple. So it's too simple, I think to be the plot line that plays out in the story. But what the answer is like, if you don't want to be, you just don't. It's a choice. Yeah, maybe, I don't know, maybe.

1:16:37 I mean, addiction is an illness, right? Like that's that's a thing. But yeah, definitely. But it's not really way out, right? There is a way out. No, I think. Yeah. And there is, right. That's the piece of the epigraph that people like, always overlook. Like there is control. Like maybe control was the serum.

1:16:55 But like there is control. So like there is a way to control it. Why? Why are we not getting bored about what that is, right? Why are we? Yeah, actually, I think it's an interesting thing to think about. Like the concept of like, what if we just believe everyone and that there is no cure? Like, then how does this end?

1:17:12 Like is it just choosing not to give in to the temptation? I put up a video like propaganda. We're not falling for a video on Instagram. And one of the things I said was there's no cure for Venetism. And someone commented she's like, I love that you guys call it Venetism. I don't know when we started doing that. I don't know, and it only occurred to me easily that not everyone calls it that, but it just fits. I don't know.

1:17:37 I guess what is the alternative being ven? Being venom, I like vedanism more. I don't know. I now feel tempted to see whether this is ever used in the book. I don't think it is. I think we made it up. Well, it's interesting too, right? Cuz an ISM isn't it in medical terms, like an ISM is a condition and like an itis is like a disease and like, yeah, yeah, I don't know. We haven't called it venonitis.

1:18:00 That sounds silly though. Venonitis does sound silly and doesn't. Like there objectively has to be a cure. Interesting. Yeah, interesting ideas. All right. Reading Corner. What are you reading? Reading Corner. What are you reading when you go first IA couple weeks ago, maybe even a month ago, talked about how I was starting. This is how you lose the time more. And then I realized I had to read so much Sarah J Mass in order to get through.

1:18:23 Yeah, just season 2 of this podcast. So I put it down. I've picked it back up, though. I really, really love it. It's a tight novella. It's very short. It's like 150 pages. But it's so dense and so rich and like every word, it seems to be chosen so carefully. It is. I would call it a romanticy, but it's not a romanticy in the way that any other book, any other romanticy I've read is.

1:18:47 It's it's definitely romance focused. It's more sci-fi, but the sci-fi doesn't even really matter. Like the the chapters are letters that these two, you don't even really know what they are. They're not human, but like they're basically there's like they're two beings on opposite sides of a time war where they're trying to control the timeline and they start leaving letters to each other and like they're clearly falling in love with each other. It's like so sweet and so tender. I highly recommend it.

1:19:17 It's really, really, really great. Interesting. I will add it to my to be read which is again. Everything comes in second to rereading. Actor. But I need to add add things. Thanks. Are you just rereading Acatar? I'm. Mostly reading my e-mail inbox, I am. I'm like a couple chapters into One Dark Window, which is the first book of the Shepherd King duology.

1:19:41 It is intriguing but I'm like way too early to have any real thoughts yet. And I'm nearing the end of A Court of Thorns and Roses, the first book for a reread, which I actually think is I. I don't know that I would say it's like that. I like it better than the ones that I know we both like better. There's two.

1:19:59 However, I do think it's the best reread. There's so much hidden in it that I did not pick up obviously on the first read, so that's been really fun. Let's. Talk about this more in our Avatar episodes. But the first Acatar book is a book about gaslighting. It is just, it is fully a book about gaslighting. It's fascinating and it's so not what you think it is. I think it's great.

1:20:23 I actually really think it's great. We'll talk about it more in our Avatar. Yeah, we can talk about it more. Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited. OK. All right. That concludes our Iron Squad fantasy draft episode. Thank you for listening. Hopefully it was fun. We'll do little fun bits like this as we kind of wrap up the Empyrean series because it's really fun to talk about these characters and I feel like we haven't gotten as much opportunity within the actual episodes to have fun. And this book, this series is funny. So we're having a good time.

1:20:56 You can find us on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. We have a Discord server, Dragons in the detail pod is the server, so please follow us there. We post clips from our episodes. You can like you can comment. We respond to a lot of comments clearly on these episodes and we love it when you reach out to us and engage with us and we have an e-mail Dragons in the details pod@gmail.com if you would like to e-mail us. We've been getting lots of really great emails and it's a great way to go further into depth if you have like a theory you want to really dig into so.

1:21:27 Yeah, if you're and again, I love our listeners. I interact with you, a lot of you, on Instagram. If you're gonna send us a chapters worth of quotes about your theory, please send it in an e-mail. I love you. Guys, I love you guys, but it's a lot on Instagram to kind of scroll through it. All yeah, and tick Tock recently stopped limiting comment length or I don't know what the limit is, but it's like way too long.

1:21:49 And so some of our comments like I need to like unfold everything like hit more, more, more and then like screenshot and then like read them in a separate. So anyways, Long story short, e-mail is a great way to get ahold of us too or DMS. Those are good for longer ones too. Cool, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening.

1:22:07 Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye.