Onyx Storm: The Marked Ones Fantasy Draft!

0:18 I've tried to be better about having like snacks between episodes that aren't like full meals so they don't take as long and the snack of this week is boom chicka pop. I like underestimated how sticky they make your fingers because I'm eating the kettle corn one. I think I'm going to run it back. I hate, I hate kettle corn.

0:36 I know that you do. I love kettle corn. Oh my God, I find it like nauseatingly sweet. We went out with our friends last night and started talking about like, French fries, and Derek and I were both like, the best condiment to put on French fries is mayonnaise. I see your face. I understand. Have you been to Amsterdam? I'm OK with mixing ketchup and Mayo. And yes, I have been to Amsterdam. I don't like ketchup.

1:00 Have you had hot steaming fries fresh out of the fryer, dipped into cold? Not helmets. I'm going to be so clear about this. Not helmets, but like good Mayo. I truly think it's a transcendent experience. I truly think it's one of the best things in the world. I could see like a garlic aioli being interesting but not just like plain I think I so maybe I should just leave with I hate mayonnaise like on everything.

1:25 But like, have you had not? Have you had good Mayo? Like not helmets, Mayo. I feel like I've. Been to restaurants that have good Mayo on their sandwiches and I still hate it. You still hate it. I like OK Chipotle aioli is aioli. Mayonnaise aioli is just. Mayonnaise with stuff mixed in. OK then. I hate plain mayonnaise.

1:43 OK. And I think that's fair. I still think a hot French fry dipped in a cold mayonnaise. And come at me in the comments, people, I'm fucking ready. Let's go. I think it's one of the best things in the world, like I truly do. But then our friend, so my friend had the same reaction that you did. And she's like, I'm really judging you right now. And then she's like, ranch is the best thing to put on fries. Holy shit.

2:07 What? What are you? Saying ranch she's. Going to be mad I brought this. Up She does listen to this podcast sometimes ranch actually, so I'm curious whether you have the same reaction. My actual go to for French fries is sweet BBQ sauce, so maybe that's just as weird as ranch. Maybe. Maybe kindred spirits? I have.

2:25 I have a big issue with sweet and salty. No, I love sweet and salty. But I find like though like a French fry and salty. Do you also not like French fries, dips and Mcflurries? No, I like a French fry, dips and a Mcflurry. My issue with BBQ sauce and ketchup, both of them is there's this like sweet cloyingness because they're made from corn syrup.

2:45 They're not actually made with sugar or honey or Maple syrup. And it's like, I just can't. I mean, you know how fucking bitchy I am about food these days and like what I will and won't eat. Like I, I just can't, I can't do that. That flavor. I just, I don't know. Yeah. But anyway, now that everyone knows I'm a super picky eater, in my defense, in my I'll just let our list.

3:06 I don't think it's used to work as much as it is, like Snooty almost, but I respect you for it. It's OK. I used to work in kitchens. I was a cook for two years. Like I used to eat like really good food every day and I highly recommend never doing that. Don't do that, especially if you love food because a, your palate will be completely fucked forever.

3:26 Like you'll just have a really high standard and it'll be really hard to eat anything ever again that's not made in restaurants. But on the bright side, you get to make almost no money and never see your friends or family, so you know it's great. I'm also hearing maybe you'll just get skinny because you're going to hate everybody.

3:41 No, we are not doing. We're not doing this. We are not. Fucking doing this. Let's hash this live. OK, All right. Hi. Hi, I'm Abby, I'm Ronnie. We're having a very real episode of Dragons in the Details today, a podcast where we usually pick apart our favorite fantasy series. Today we might be picking apart each other though. We'll find out.

4:03 I'm just. It wouldn't. Be the first time this series is focused on the empyrean. Sorry this season is focused on the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yaros. These episodes contain spoilers up through Onyx storm. If you've not finished Onyx storm save this podcast save this episode and come back later due to the contents of this series this podcast is rated R and should only be listened to by mature audiences.

4:27 Each week we dive into a specific topic in depth. We think we'll follow that structure. We're not following that structure today. So today what we are doing, if you've listened to our previous episodes, you know we've already done 16 deep dive episodes. We feel like there's not that much more to dive deep on, but we still want to talk about Onyx Store.

4:42 We are also prepping for our season 2 on Akatar. So these are just some fun little episodes. Today we are doing a Marked Ones fantasy draft. So last week we did an Iron Squad fantasy draft. This week is the same format. We'll get into what that is later, but it is with the Marked Ones instead of the Iron Squad, who we in general feel are perhaps a more interesting group to talk about, maybe a little bit more fun.

5:03 We'll see. I think they're more fun. Yeah, we love them. I truly think every marked 1 is like fantastic. And I would talk about them for hours. We're coming with receipts. If we have theories, we typically have quotes to back them up. Again, this is probably not going to be a very theory heavy episode, but in general our theory, we are still doing precog corner though we are still doing precog corner. We're still doing corrections, omissions and social media. So, you know, we still we, there's always going to be theories with us, but it's just not as theory focused this week. I think that's it for intro.

5:32 Any announcements? Just next season at Qatar, yeah. So if if you plan on rereading a guitar, A Court of Thorns and Roses by Sarah J Maas, our girl, I would start. You don't have to, you can just be along for the ride. I know these books have been out for quite a while now, so we are going to be covering A Court of Thorns and Roses in the next season and we're super excited. And we're going to keep with the same format, so we're not going chapter by chapter.

5:57 We're not doing chapter by chapter. We're doing the same format, similar format. We think it'll be the same. Same vibes, yeah. Cool. All right, so I sent you an article earlier today. I forgot what it was called but it was about Book Boyfriend. Yeah, and how they're ruining the world. It was, that was kind of it.

6:15 It was an article in the Washington Post. I thought it would be interesting. It was about, I think the title was like, you're perfect man does exist, he's just in a book. And it was about how book boyfriends are becoming more and more prolific, women are getting more and more excited about these men who existed books.

6:32 And it was about kind of the real world consequences of that. You know what it honest to God made me think of, and I'm going to get butchered for this, but I'm going to say it anyways. It made me think of those articles that people wrote about men and adult film. Honestly, kind of honestly, that was like the vibe that I got from the headline.

6:52 Obviously the article is quite different and I do want to talk about it, but I was like, huh, interesting parallel that my brain immediately drew here I. Think that's totally fair. I think that's totally fair. Obviously the difference is there are no real people in this who are being potentially exploited. It's just, yeah, everyday men having to live up to fictional men and whether or not that's fair, right? And I do think the article raises some good questions about that.

7:22 I also, I don't know if you caught this, it really pissed me off. They spelled. Pharaoh's They were wrong. Yeah. And I'm like, come on, guys. I made a Washington Post account to read this article. This was a Washington Post article, which I don't like. They're. I don't. Know. Not great, not great. We're not huge fans of The Washington Post, but I did think that it was interesting to read about it. They also described, I'm just going to say, the male main character for Akutar to avoid spoilers. Yeah.

7:50 They say that he sexually humiliated Farrah, which he absolutely did not do. That is not what happened in that book. Like, context is very important here. And, like, clearly they just read the first one and probably didn't even read it because they spelled Pharaoh's name wrong. And we're just like, oh, this happens. Yeah.

8:05 And that really, really fucking bothered me. And I felt like was a disservice too. Yeah, I mean, I do. We have. And we'll talk about the fact that there are some things that happen and those books that are a little bit, there are some beginnings that are suspect. And I'm like, for sure, I wish that this wasn't the way this all started.

8:23 But yeah, it definitely belittled that character development overall, Yeah. Yeah, that really pissed me off. I did think it was interesting. I guess I my thought of this is that like, you're in a relationship. I'm in a relationship. I feel like these books have actually only like, strengthened my relationship and made me really appreciate things about my partner and like the things that he does. Obviously, these men are fictional. We fucking understand that, and we don't even spend that much time talking about the men.

8:53 I do think it's like the mystery that is much more intriguing, at least for what we're doing. I mean, I think my honest take on comparing the men of the real world to the men in these books is, like you said, we're both in relationships. Like we're both in good, happy, healthy relationships. And these men are fictional and they do not be ripped in real life because the context does not exist in real life.

9:18 Like, part of what makes these romances so epic is that the stakes are so high and there's magic and people are dying and there's war and there's like big massive battles and like, that just isn't our everyday life. And so you cannot expect men to do the exact same things that they are in these books.

9:36 I do think that men should take the good realistic traits that they see in these books and live up to them. I. Think men should read? These, yeah. I think men should absolutely read these. I think it would be awesome. I've been trying to get Derek to read them. I understand that he doesn't want to, but like they're great.

9:54 Well, he the reason he doesn't want to is because I told him what happened. Like, he he knows that Zayda turned. So he's like, why would I read it? Yeah, I don't know. It's just such bullshit. Like, you're right. Like, adult films have existed for so long. Yeah. I'm like, not that. Well, and we don't want to compare these books to porn because they're not porn. But like, if you're talking about idealistic, unrealistic standards, right.

10:16 Like women have been dealing with this forever. Forever. And now we're flipping it's on on its head and it's existing for men and not all men, to be fair. Not all men. Like, oh, as I said, I think both of us have come to, like, appreciate more on our partners because of these books. But the idea that some men are like, well, this is not fair.

10:35 Who could live up to this? This is unrealistic. And it's like, do you understand female beauty standards and what men have done to women for fucking centuries? Like yeah, give me a fucking break. And I also just think the things that are to be lived up to within these books are like, I understand the bedroom stuff, like I totally get that part, but the stuff that matters is not the like ancient billionaire or whatever.

10:58 It's these main characters not overprotecting their women, allowing them to be successful, empowering them, being chivalrous, frankly. And so I think it's it's way more of a complex social issue than I think is like pertinent to talk about on this podcast. Absolutely. But I do think there are things in these books that these men and body that should be idolized and are not the same thing as like, you know, living up to unrealistic female beauty standards. So.

11:24 Yeah, no, I think there's a whole interesting conversation to be had here again. I yeah, I agree. I don't think the is the place for. It, but at least not like this episode yeah like we could do like a full. I feel like I could have this conversation for like an hour, yeah. And maybe at some point we will do that.

11:40 But what I'm trying to say, I think, is that these books are good blueprint for how to treat women in a respectful way that is still, like, sexy and good and everyone feels good about it rather than I can't talk to women at all or, oh, I'm going to be a Dick to women, I think is what I'm trying to say here.

11:57 Yeah, maybe not very well, but I agree with you. More men should read Romantic is what I'm getting at. The men should try it out also. Men should try it out. Honestly, the men who just think that they're all about like sex and I'm like there are maybe 3 scenes that get to that like level of intimacy. Like it's.

12:16 Mostly hot, so right. And it's not even even with relationship blueprints. Like you said, it's not about the bedroom, it's about the way they treat women in everyday life. Right. Like, yeah, I didn't take a page out of the bedroom. That's great too. It's. Fine, don't want problems there. You're looking for pointer.

12:33 Yeah, try it out. I agree with you. Hi, Chris. All right, interesting read for listeners. Give it a give it a once over. Let us know your thoughts in the comments. I am curious how other people think about this, especially as this genre has been around for a long time and it's only recently become so popular that people are talking about it like in small talk in everyday life. So maybe there were people who have been reading this stuff for far longer than we have that have thoughts on the recent prevalence.

12:59 Too. And there was another article in the New York Times this weekend. I didn't send this one to you, but it was about like, where have all the men gone? Like, we miss men and how they treat women. And I think that's a really interesting campaign. I read both of them like kind of back-to-back. I think they're really interesting companion pieces.

13:14 I think they speak to something larger going on with society here. Again, we won't get into it in this podcast, but like, it feels like a shift might be happening. I don't know. But they're they're very interesting pieces. It's interesting to think about it. Yeah. And maybe we're going to get cancelled for you to talk about this. I don't know.

13:30 Sorry. I know you guys don't come here for politics. You come here for fun sexy book talk, but this is the real world. There's real things happening here anyway. Corrections on mission social media chat. Yes, I have a couple, just little bitty fun ones. So one listener left a comment on one of our posts about Bodi.

13:52 As everybody here knows, I think we have a strong suspicions that Bodi is venom at the end of Onyx Storm and Theo M2 commented a very long comment that was well thought out and helpful. But the crux of it was it made me think about bodies second signet and bodies knowing about Zadens second signet.

14:12 And this commenter pointed out maybe Bodie because his signet is countering signets. Do you think he can feel someone wielding A signet against him? And if so, has he ever felt Zayden trying to read his intentions and countered it? Because never once did I think that Bodie might know about Zayden's second signet because he himself can counter signets and recognize that they are being wielded.

14:35 But damn, if he can then he knows everyone's signet. Yeah, I was thinking about this. It's kind of tangentially related to this because like, I was thinking about Bodie countering Cygnets and I was thinking about Arc being a precog. And I'm like how counter being a precog right? Like, yeah, because like in battle, he will like, turn it down like he's turning a dial.

14:55 Right, right. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if Bodhi knows everyone's sickness or knows everyone's sickness. And maybe he maybe he only could know signets that are being wielded like against him or like into him. So you think in this scenario, Zaden tried to read Bodie, Bodie felt it encountered it? That'd be so dickish on Zaden's part too. Well, I mean, they were young or together, right? Like Zaden could have been much less experienced and it was just pushing into everybody by accident maybe. Yeah, no, but if he's a year below, I guess, like, Zaden wasn't just manifesting for the first time in Brody's presence. Yeah.

15:32 So yeah, it would be kind of mean of Satan to do, but maybe he doesn't always consciously do it. I don't know. But I thought that was interesting. I remember Second is more of a shout out. A TikTok user called Trevor Thomas Williams commented something on our post that made me laugh. I actually don't know whether it was an insult or a compliment, but I'm going to read it anyways because I thought it was so funny.

15:50 Do you know the clip of Jenny Slate where she says I had to stop following NASA on Instagram because it was making me crazy? No. Do you know that? OK, Can you actually actually take a moment and look up Jenny Slate Had to stop following NASA on Instagram. I need, I need Abby to see this before I read the comment.

16:10 Is it from Drunk History? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, I found it. OK, Did you watch it? Yes. So Trevor commented, you know that clip of Jenny Slate where she says I had to stop following NASA on Instagram because it was making me crazy? They'd be like, here's a pic of a black hole. And I'd be like, that's how this podcast makes me feel.

16:30 Oops. I said we are so sorry, did. They unfollow us. I don't know, I haven't checked whether they still follow us, but I thought that was so funny and also like probably how I would feel watching our own podcast. Oh my God, I know there are people who comment at least on Instagram, like almost every day. And I'm like, what are what are you? What are we doing to your braids? What's happening?

16:52 Are you OK? Yeah, no, I mean, I love them. They're great. I'm really happy with how engaged they are. But I'm also like, Oh my God, this is a lot of theories. As we said, this is basically turned into a speculative fan fiction podcast. It's OK. Yeah. So thanks, Trevor. I don't know whether you meant that and positive night light or a negative light, but we understand and we understand. We're sorry.

17:15 OK, I had to one kind of in real time because this has to do with the clip we posted today, but the other is from our favorite person ever, Love Bug, who I'm starting to think I don't actually think this. Please don't no one go after Love Bug. But I'm like, are you Rebecca Yarrows in disguise? Because you know the details of these books so well. Like things I have completely forgotten about and I'm just actually going to try to find her full comment because it's really good.

17:40 Hold on. All right. So the theory was the the clip that we posted was Melgren. I was that Melgren killed the Adler. So it was our theory from our second Onyx Storm ending episode. My theory was that Melbourne killed the elders because we've been kind of building towards the spot line the whole book of a tyran door Navarian war.

17:59 We hadn't seen anything come from that. I think this is coming from that but commented to add to this theory. Halden is already camped on the tears border with Navarian troops because Zeidan ignored the order not to accept Peromas refugees and stop supplying to lady and from the tears minds to Navarre.

18:14 And what better time to strike a Risha than when everyone is off fighting the Ven and all the way injury this? So she pointed out that we actually have already seen some movements of Navarian troops. Halden is on the terrorist border. Neldon might be with him. And I completely forgot about this. But yeah, like, it's totally, it's just kind of adding fuel to the fire that this could have actually been like Navarre's first move in a war rather than a Venom thing.

18:38 Yeah. So that I really loved the second and I don't have anything written down because as I said, this is happening in real time. We posted our clip today of your theory about how the math does not work with Imogen erasing Violet's mind, right. So Imogen took 4 minutes to erase a 10 minute conversation it would take her.

18:56 Agreeing with that one on TikTok. Oh really? It's actually doing pretty good on Instagram. It's like people are engaging with it but they do not agree like. A lot of people were like, well, what if we use what if she used some like what if? What if they got slown? Yeah. And Sloan could do it. And I'm like, yeah, I hear what you're saying, but I don't think they would get a first year in fall.

19:17 Like I don't think that they would pull in Sloan, but a siphon, A siphon, right. So we're back to Naolan, I think. I think we talked. About that on the episode too, I think it just wasn't in the clip. Apparently I have black holes about episodes and I don't remember anything that we talked about. Definitely.

19:34 When we were talking about how it could possibly ever make sense that Imogen could have done this, actually somebody brought up an interesting one in our comments. So the siphon one got called out for sure. Sloan got called out. But I was like nailing. Have you heard of nailing? Maybe it's nailing.

19:49 And then the other one was we talked a while back about and this commenter remembered, which actually made me kind of touched. I was like, wow, you've been here for a minute. And we talked a while back about Violet seemingly making the people around her stronger. So could she have had an impact? And also like, what happens if you siphon Violet? I don't know.

20:06 No, I think either of those are options. I think, I think the image and thing was just us. Well, it's your theory, so I don't totally know. But to me, it's just us saying there's more going on here. Like this is not, we cannot take this at Facebook either. Yeah, it's either time manipulation or there's more people involved. Or can the ear?

20:24 Like the earrings can seemingly do everything, so could the earrings have played a role in wiping her memory? Like I don't know. It just felt 12 hours of memory felt like a long time for Imogen to have taken care of, given she took 4 minutes to erase Jack's brief. Experiment. I was not planning to talk about this, but since we're on social media, the Zaden and Garrett clip is also blowing up. Like absolutely blowing up on Instagram. Yeah, interesting.

20:51 And a lot of people are like, no, he was just back. And I'm like, no, he wasn't just back. And also, Rebecca literally put this line. And why would she have put the line in the book? Don't you think I'd be like, coming to your bed every night if that wasn't going anywhere? Like every word, Zaden and Garrett. I'm sorry, yes, sorry.

21:07 The clip is Zadan or Garrick is sneaking Zadan into Violet's bed. Maybe not every night, but a lot of nights. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And everyone's like, no, this like, well, I think. Yeah, I think people want to believe that it's dream walking. And I just don't think like we have no other physical. Like I wrote down where everyone was before and after every single dream, and I don't think we have any other times when Violet has seemingly traveled somewhere or the dream has travelled somewhere as a result of her dream walking. If it's dream walking, wouldn't Zayden wake up next to Berwyn like that makes any sense personally there? You go maybe she's novice and just like, yeah, I don't think that it's dream walking is my

21:50 point. But people I think want to believe that something like more is happening there when I think our most realistic options are Garrick distance, wheel distance walked in there or it's net in air. Like those are the options. We have literally been given the answer. She wrote it down. Like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know.

22:06 Anyway, Yeah, anyway. But back to your point on Navarian forces being on the border we actually got. So we got a question or not. I don't remember what the exact wording was, but we got a comment on that post wondering whether Towery could basically be behind the Vennon and the timing of that Vennon attack on Dreyfus.

22:28 I'm curious your thoughts because that obviously means that all of this is kind of everyone versus tier Endor. And so if Navarre enforces no and are in on and dictating potentially what the Vennon are doing, then that obviously is just like tier Endor never stood a chance, right? Although they did. But I think that makes this whole story so much less complex, at least with respect to Melgren and Terry specifically.

22:52 Because if it is like Melgren is fully allied with the venom, which I personally don't believe he is, but if he is, then like this whole thing becomes so uninteresting. It's just like literally Violet against everyone. It's it's Star Wars, right, if that's what happens, it's fucking Star Wars and it's been done.

23:09 I agree with you. I don't think it's as interesting and we talked about this because the sun comment right Berwin saying I have another people have said what if it's about King Tari? What if it's about how then an arc right, If King Tari is venom, there is no war they've won. Palpatine is the Emperor, right?

23:27 Pointless. And then Tyran Door becomes like a resistance, which they already are, I guess. But it's like, I don't think it's quite as interesting as the Game of Thrones level intrigue we are starting to have now with we have Navarre Matatirondor as a separate political entity. We have Tirondor fighting with her own meal against the Venin.

23:46 We have the Venin, which are basically the White Walkers. Like we're getting set up for a very yeah, like Game of Thrones level book. And I'm excited about that. Star Wars is great, but it's not as complex, you know? Yeah. So I agree with you. I hope, I hope it's not going that way. That doesn't mean it's. Not going that way.

24:03 Yeah, we'll see. OK, cool. Should we? All right, we're doing the draft. So do you want to explain the rules? You want me to explain them? I. Can do them this time. We'll see how. OK, so this is another fantasy draft similar to our last episode, but this episode we were focusing on the marked ones.

24:21 And so in our pool of characters that we'll be discussing, we have Garrick, Bodie, Imogen, Sloan, and we are including Liam. Even though he's dead. I'll let you in, but he's dead. So the rules are we have a series of questions that we've outlined in advance. We're each going to pick. We have picked 1 character and one backup character to answer each question.

24:43 We're going to alternate with who gets first pick. Once somebody's picked someone for a category. Like if Abby picks Liam for the first question, then I can no longer choose Liam. You can choose a character more than once, but you should be sparing about it. It's a little bit easier to be sparing about it in this one, in my opinion, than in the last one.

25:00 The last one we had like so many questions and like not really that many characters that a lot of screen time. So those are the rules. Did I miss anything? I don't think so, just I guess I feel like we should shout out to the Ringer who did this first. I'm just probably doing it better, but this was inspired by what the Ringer does.

25:17 If you have not checked out their podcast, you should House. I love House of Art. I would say House of Art is the blueprint for this podcast in my opinion. Like House of Art did it first, they did it better. We're just trying to do what they did for. Probably bad that I've not listened to that. You should, you should. I mean, they're, they don't really do books. They do TV shows.

25:34 But it's two women, Mallory and Joe. They like, really, really know their stuff. I think they're great. I mean, and they do a lot of Marvel, which I don't really pay attention to, but they do a lot of Lord of the Rings stuff. Like they their Rings of Power dive was so good. Yeah. So shout out to House of our great podcast.

25:52 All right, we're going to dive into it. All right, And these are pretty similar questions to last week, but we have a couple different ones. So who is the most powerful marked one? Right, first pick for this is Garrick. I just think in terms of signets and politics alone. Like Garrick is an air wielder and he's a pretty powerful one.

26:09 Like air wielding doesn't give a lot of air time with him, but like he is pushing. That was not intended to be fun. Air wielding doesn't. We don't get tons of visibility into his air wielding, but it is pretty powerful. Like he can push the air around his dragon, he can make himself fly faster, and we've seen really powerful air wielders through venom, so we have reason to believe this is super powerful. He's also a distance wielder which is like the sickest signet ever in my opinion.

26:33 Like he can literally walk across the continent in 30 seconds which is crazy and also carry people and his dragon literally he just grabs on to Chadra and just walks and then he's somewhere else. Do you think do you think he pushes him up over his head? Do you think he. Venom drags his tail or if the venom hold hands and then step I think he grabs a wing or. Yeah, he's just holding.

27:05 Yeah, just like touching him. I think I'm not too hard about how like the craziest moment for me, even though we knew that Garrick distance walked his dragon before this was when he picked up Imogen and quit. Just like I picture a literal Hulk just like like gathering up two people and like walking crazy crazy segment. But even apart from his signet, his dragon Chad room is particularly sensitive to runes and can locate basically any item with runes.

27:36 And we don't really talk about this one much, but I feel like that will matter later. I think so. Like that can't have just been exposed so that he could like know what that lure was. That doesn't seem right. He's Aidan's right hand man and his father was Fenn's right hand man as well. So that might get him into trouble now. But I think like previously and potentially going forward, that he's like super politically well positioned. And I suspect that his family line also has respect amongst the people of Arisha for that the same reason like his father was, you know, high up in in rank and respected by nobility. So my vote is Garrick.

28:11 And we don't know anything about his mother. Right, we don't know anything about his mother, but I would like to. So sad, so sad that all these people are orphans. It's so sad. I know, it's really sad. It's fucking devastating. Garrick was my second pick. OK, what is your first? Pick only at Bodie, and really only because Bodie at the very least is nobility by birth, and we have talked about how he might actually be the heir of Tierrendor and not Satan.

28:37 Go back to our Zayden episode if you don't know what we're talking about. But basically, it's very sketchy on whether or not Fen is actually the rightful heir of Tierrendor or if Bodie's mother should have been the rightful heir of Tierrendor. But also, wait, just to add to your Garrick thing before I forget about this.

28:53 Obviously, I just read Throne of Glass. And like, this is not really a spoiler for Throne of Glass, but like, Rowan's signet basically is wind wielding, right? And Rowan is really fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think Garrick will be able to suck the air out of people's lungs? I think so. So I kind of think we didn't talk about this enough when we talked about the six most powerful signets. I I'm really struggling to believe that it's truly aligned to the signet because it seems like the dragon and the rider are what makes a signet crazy or UN crazy. Like, like these really like standard signets, like air wielding and fire wielding.

29:28 Like it seems like if the dragon is crazy powerful, then that signet is still crazy powerful. Like there's no reason for me to believe that Garrick couldn't create a tornado if he wanted to. Yeah, Wind. Yeah, and how come some people get like parts of weather, but theophany just gets all weather? What's with that and Lilith, I guess, yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

29:50 Yeah. Cool. And also what quantifies is weather. Like, are we just limited to like, thunderstorms and tornadoes or do we get, like, earthquakes and tsunamis? Like, yeah, there's the line. I mean, she's dead now, so I don't know. Sorry I was just thinking of that line that's like Violet says something to Malik and the sky darkened in acknowledgement. Like, is there also a Garrick Malik tie through that? I don't know.

30:12 Anyway, just my brain. Just my brain doing things, ping ponging around. Yeah. So I picked Bodie and he just barely edged out Garrick. Honest to God. I mean, I think Garrick might be the answer here, but if Bodie is nobility, we know Bodie's nobility. If he's the heir of Tyrandor, that obviously adds a political element to this.

30:28 If he's the brother, it might not matter. But that was an interesting angle. Countering signets, as we talked about in Corrections on Mission, social media might be an insanely powerful signet, and we don't know. His second signet that is still up in the air, we definitely think he has one. If it's invisibility, that's crazy.

30:46 Yeah. Even if it's not invisibility, if he has a second segment, that makes him very powerful. I'm on top of his very powerful first segment. So I like Garrick, though. I think Garrick. I think there's more to talk about with Garrick, but my first pick was Bodie. I love him, he gives me the vibe of like. Are you talking about Bodie or Garrick? Garrick I like.

31:06 I obviously really like Bodie, but I. I know that this is not Canon. I know that Garrick is a brunette. I know that. But in my mind, he's blonde and I can't fix it. I can't fix it. Like, I don't know. Does sound like a blonde name. Yeah. What does that mean? What do those words mean? I don't know, it just does. But yeah, he definitely is brunette. I picture him as having similar coloring to Dane though. In my body he's blonde and has no eyes and I know he's brunette and has Hazel eyes.

31:32 Yeah. Oh my God, can I tell you something? I thought I was so funny. I don't know if you saw this on Instagram, but it was the clip we were talking about before about Zaden Sneaky or Garrick sneaking Zaden into Violet's bed. And someone commented, I don't remember what they commented, but I responded. I said, Oh my God, maybe This is why Garrick calls Zaden teddy bear because he's sneaking him into Violet's bed every night to sleep with.

31:54 I thought, I thought I was pretty fun. All right, So yeah, I think Garrick is the correct answer here, but we'll see. Which is funny because he doesn't. Get then that could tip the scales. Well, it definitely feels like Bodhi gets more screen time, but yeah, Garrick is kind of more interesting, I guess. Yeah yeah.

32:11 I mean, the distance wielding thing is just fucking crazy. It's. Insane. It's. Just fucking crazy. Also the fact that he's like just massive in general, like he like dwarfs Zayden in terms of breadth. And then just to picture him being like, OK, guys, and just like teleports basically like what is going on here?

32:29 No, it's like big Hercules vibes. OK. All right, Abby, who's whose signet would be the worst accidentally wheeled during sex? All right, whose signet would be the worst accidentally wheeled during sex? Imogen's memory erasing I think would be pretty bad it. Was my second and my literal writing was it would be hilarious and sad.

32:49 Suddenly this guy is like wait, why? Am I here? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny because my both of my picks were Imogen sickness because I'm like memory racing would be bad, Earth wielding also potentially very bad. Also potentially very bad. Yeah. He laughed so hard at the thought of Garrick accidentally distance wielding and just suddenly being like hundreds of miles.

33:15 Away. So my pick would be would be Garrick, if not Imogen. Because imagine just like, you know, doing your thing and then suddenly where am I? It's actually the same thing, kind of. Yeah, actually, yes, it is the same thing. The thought that you have is where am I? Just in one situation you've not moved and then the other situation you have. And they're going to have sex.

33:39 So, like, what's going to happen? Yeah. Like hopefully Garrett was able to remember where he went. Oh man, I hope we get the image of POV for that anyway. I mean, that would be fun if we're getting more POV chapters and we get more. I feel like that is maybe the way this will go because like, we've covered a lot of ground with Satan and Violet like.

34:01 Yeah, I hope we get more POV's. Yeah, I hope we get more Zaden in the book. Like I want more Zaden in the book. I think we have to. I don't think we can go a whole however long it takes for him to her to find him. Like without Zaden, like that's, I don't know. But then I worry that we're gonna get into like, it's gonna be like 5 fucking POV's and it's gonna be the thing where every time you think something's gonna happen, we have to wait for like four other chapters.

34:28 And I don't know, we'll see. So next question was who is most likely to die? And you have the first pick. Yeah, I have the first pick. Ronnie, who is the most likely to die? Refuse to believe that any of them die, however. I kind of see. I see. Bodie dying to protect Satan is my first pick, and I don't really have any more to elaborate on than that. His sole purpose is serving his cousin and his province. He does not want to rule it.

34:55 So what does that leave dying for it? Probably, yeah. I agree, my first pick was Bodie so I guess I'm not supposed to talk about it but the only thing I would add that you didn't put was how fucking reckless he was during. Yeah, insane. Ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah, like, clearly. I think Imogen even says like he has a death wish or something. Like it's like he does not realize the important Yeah. My second pick, and again, I don't think any of them died. My second pick was Garrick, but only by process of elimination because Liam's already dead.

35:30 And I don't think Sloan's going to die because Liam's dead. And I don't think Imogen is going to die because I will. Fucking no. I just think image, like Imogen doesn't seem like a character that's going to die. Yeah. So it's Garrick by process of elimination, but really I think it's Bodhi. So I know we're not supposed to talk about it are other picks, but my other pick was actually Imogen.

35:51 Also by process of elimination. But like for some reason I just thought that she was more likely than Garrick but I guess they could be interchangeable. This is like super picky of me, but it's not like a typical romance writing style to kill off the man someone has been pining after, but it is not uncommon to kill off the one pining and having that pined after character end up with someone else instead like Allah Les Miserables. That would be so fucking terrible. Terrible.

36:20 I would I would die like. Terrible would be terrible. But that's why I when I was thinking about Garrick versus Imogen, that was what popped into my head. Like there's no way that Garrick just dies. And then Imogen like never got to tell him how she felt. How? Both would be terrible. Also, like when you were, I definitely thought, I thought Imogen and Garrick were hooking up, but then they but then I think it's pretty clear they they're not.

36:45 She's never right, Quinn says. Quinn says you need to find some happiness, right? So. Zaden knows because he can read Imogen's mind, correct? Yeah. How? OK, so can a Zaden. Satan is just reading people's minds, so maybe he is reading Bowie's mind, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he at least read it to make sure that it wasn't him, that she was funny actor, I guess, because that is how he describes it, right? He likes Violet, loses her shit and she's like, is it Imogen? He's like, just remove me from the equation, right. And what do you see?

37:14 And she's like. So do the marched ones know about Zayden's second segment? No, he says. No one knows. He says no one knows. Yeah, I think Bodhi might know, but he says no one knows. Geez, that's. A tough conversation. That's a tough one. Yeah, I mean, Zayden has. I have a lot to say at the end of this episode about how much explaining Zayden may have to do.

37:35 At some point. Well, yeah, because it's tough too, because Imogen is all like to Violet. Like, you have to accept that he's gonna have some secrets. But I wonder if Imogen would feel that way if she knew that those secrets were also impacting her. And like, even like Zaden and Violet have so many arguments about like Zaden being Full disclosure and like telling her everything. And he only ever gets to the point where he says I will not withhold anything that affects your agency. Like Zaden does not commit to being forthcoming with even Violet.

38:03 And if not Violet, then like certainly nobody. Else, well, he's clearly not forthcoming, right? Like this whole book was him plotting and keeping secrets. Yeah, interestingly, the person he seems to have been the most open with was Brennan. Well, and our but we never get those conversations. But yeah.

38:18 I don't even know if they were conversations. You think they were just mind to mind? I think like maybe Arik had a plan and Zaden was just reading the plan. Oh my God. Wait, so they might not have been? I don't know that Arik is in on what's going on here. I mean, I think he probably sees, but like, I don't know that they ever had a conversation with each other.

38:37 Like here's what's going on. I think Ark sees things. Zaden is Venon and can read minds now. Zaden is seeing what Ark is seeing, and that's like how this has all been going down. That's fascinating. So they might not have been working together at all. Intentionally no, which was a primary piece of the argument for if if Zain does resent the person who became his brother.

38:58 Like maybe they just were never actually friends, they just, he was just using him. That's the complicated loyalty, right? I mean, I guess I assumed they were working together because they had that whole joke about violent dashes. Damn. This is how I've been thinking about it the whole time, so maybe I'm sorry that I didn't explain previously.

39:15 Wow OK. When would they have chatted? The opportunity didn't really present itself, isn't? The same like fighting with Violet at the beginning of the book and he like disappears sometimes. Or is that an iron flame? Definitely an iron flame but I think he also he did have a good amount of away time and Onyx storm 2 related to the scenarium stuff but like arc was being pretty arc far away from the scenarium because they would recognize him as. Yeah, Cam, great questions, great questions all around. All right.

39:42 Look, we are getting into there, but here we are. What are we on? Most likely to die. We did that. We think that, Bodie. We think Bodie. But we don't really think anyone's going to die. We don't really think anyone's going to die, but just feel like the most tragic thing that could happen is people turning, not people dying.

39:58 Who would be the best wingman or wing woman? Are you asking me in the first pack? OK. Liam. Liam is the answer. No hesitation, really. I feel like Liam is a wingman in this book. I feel like Liam's number one role is. Actually, man. Yes. Interesting. I mean, he did, yeah. But I guess he did like basically sell Violet on Zayden.

40:21 Like he's talking Zayden up the whole time. Like the whole time. And Zayden trusts Liam to not sleep with Violet. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Liam is a good answer. For me, the obvious answer was Garrick because he's putting things into Violet's bed. Oh yeah. Yeah, but Garrick better like technical wing.

40:43 Like if you're defining wingman as like someone who's helping someone land someone else, Yeah, then Liam did more of that. Garrick was more enabling them. Yeah, once they were already together. So Garrick would be my pick. I like the other note that I had after Garrick and Liam was. The rest would all be genuinely terrible.

41:04 Wing women and wing men. Well, I was just thinking that Zayden's a terrible wing man because he's not helping Imogen out with Garrick at all. Yeah, unless he knows Garrick's not into Imogen because he's really have his intentions. That would suck. That would suck. That's a good point, Zayden does absolutely nothing to help Imogen out, but maybe he also knows that like if you set up your friends like you could have really catastrophic consequences if they don't kind of find their own way.

41:31 That's true. So I was actually laughing at Bodi basically being a reverse wing man because he gave Violet his flight jacket and then Zaden flipped. Shit, right? And Zaden knows now. We think Zaden knows that Bodie has a crush on Violet, right? So that's why he flipped a shit. Yeah, so it's tough to be a good wing man when everyone's in love with Violet.

41:49 If Garrick is into Violet and he is sneaking Zaden's. Oh, I don't think Garrick's into Violet. There's like one line. There's like one line where it's implied. It's something around when they're doing cygnets firing or something. I feel like there's one line. We talked about it. Yeah, where he's like impressed by.

42:05 Oh and there was also their battle too when Garrick is training Violet in the sparring like pit rumber and she like strikes his dagger and he's like damn that was crazy. Kind of, yeah. No, I have actually no memory of that, but I've loved. That scene, it was the first time that Violet ever actually like wielded with any precision.

42:27 Garrick was fighting everybody using their signal. Right. And this is when it's all of them. She's with the whole squad, right? Like they are like they were going to do it. And she strikes, Yeah. She basically, I was like, you would be dead if I wanted you to be dead. And he was like, ha, ha, you missed. And she's like, did I?

42:42 And she struck his dagger and his. Daggers that were like behind him, right? Yeah, Yeah. Which is funny because she also Zaden and her under the tree. Zaden says you missed. And she says did I? Yeah. So it's a nice little callback with daggers. Yeah. Good job, Rebecca. Good job. OK, that one was fun.

43:01 So next question we had was who would you pick to back you up in a back alley fight? I have the first pick or you have the first pick? I have the first pick, but I guess I just ask you go first, okay? Definitely Garrick. Again, it's Garrick. Sorry. Hear what you're saying, but my gut impulse on this one was Imogen.

43:17 She was my second pick. I think she's also a great pick. Yeah, I think. Is more nasty, Like if you want someone who's going to actually brutalize whoever is advancing, I think Imogen is the answer. Garrick, I think, is more of a pacifist. Like we're just going to stand there and be a wall and be like, do not.

43:36 Yeah, like, kind of like like putting the palm up, like like you're running against him, Yeah. Oh yeah, images like I will pull out my right hook and that will be how we end. Yeah, I will dislocate your shoulder. Yeah, Yeah. And I feel like I don't know why I went to Imogen, but she's just, she was my gut. She's my gut.

43:54 She has the I will fuck you up vibes. She definitely. Does she absolutely does. Yeah, she absolutely. Does and Garrick definitely doesn't. But Garrick has like bodyguard card vibes. Like I would hire Garrick to be my own personal security detail and feel snug as a bug in a rug all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, cool.

44:11 But they're perfect for each other's, basically what they're saying. They will be a very safe. Couple. Yeah, no one's talking with them, right? The next one I have is who do you think your first pick on this will play the biggest role in the upcoming books? OK Imogen is my answer once again. Tell me why.

44:28 She gets a POV chapter. I think we might carry that pattern forward. I think she might get more POV chapters. We know she's with Violet at the end, right? So we know if even if Imogen does not start to get more POV chapters, she's going to be with Violet. And if Violet continues to get all the POV chapters just by being with Violet, she will, she will play a big role. She will have a lot to do.

44:50 Yeah. We know she knows something about what happened in those missing 12 hours. We don't know how much she knows. I previously said I don't think she can know everything otherwise it's pointless to white Violets memory. I stand by that. Her second signet crazy powerful. We just learned about.

45:05 There's never been an earth wielder before. Apparently she is an earth wielder so that seems like it's going to play into some upcoming fault lines. Especially if as we mentioned she can put power back into the earth potentially. I also think we'll get more of her back story, like we got that epigraph about her mother and her sister thing. I think they'll play a big role in all this. I think we're going to learn more about Lilith through them. So I just, I just think Imogen has a lot, a lot coming up. She's been set up as too good a character and done too little thus far for it to not pay off.

45:37 Yeah, I mean, I honestly think that those POV chapters were kind of our hints for like, hey, who's about to get a bunch of page time that has not gotten it to date. So I agree, my first pick was Imogen as well. My second pick, I do feel like an obvious one here, is Bodie, but my second pick is Liam because of our theories around Malik. Like if we do have a Malik plot line coming for us, I don't think we're done with Liam.

46:00 Oh. My God, I'd be so happy. And if everyone who dies is dedicated to Malik, commended to Malik in some way, and if Violet is too, then like, will we meet him again? I don't think it's out of the question. One person, I'm actually, I'm curious whether you remember us talking about this because I feel like in some corner of my brain we talked about this.

46:21 But I sometimes think we talked about things when I just thought about it a lot. Did we ever talk about the possibility of Quinn astral projecting as Liam in the cell? In the cell. I don't think we've talked about it. I think I thought about that being potentially an astral projection, but I don't think we talked about Quinn doing it. Yeah.

46:38 I don't think I have it. I'll just go back and reread it and see whether I can think of a reason that we can't. But I don't have a great reason. But that couldn't be true. It just. I mean, the only reason it wouldn't be true is because Quinn is now dead and. Quinn is dead and we. Never really throw back on it.

46:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, yeah, I had Bodhi for my second pick, but Liam would be so good. I mean, Rebecca said. And we know we can't, you know, hold stock and everything, Rebecca says. Because she has to keep her secrets. And we respect that. But she said that like, Liam's not going to come back to life, like Liam has to stay dead.

47:13 This works with that. Yeah, like if we are going to meet Malik, we could meet Liam. Have you heard the theories about Liam being a venom because Violet doesn't know what happened to his body? Like Zayden's kind of sketchy about what they did with Liam's body. I have but he also like stopped breathing in front of them.

47:29 Yeah. So I struggle with it. I have heard about theories, a theory about what happens if you don't burn all of the belongings of the dead, which we know that we still have Liam's figurines. That he can just, like, wander about. Like, yeah, I've heard that too. It seems like a pretty easy loophole.

47:47 Like, oh, I want to talk to Lilith. I'm just not going to burn all her shit. Yeah, but it also seems like it happens far too often, right? Like I feel like we've seen a bunch of belongings of the dead that. We have Lilith's journals, we have Asher's books, we have Liam's figurines. Yeah. Yeah, so don't know.

48:04 I don't think I I wouldn't I wouldn't appreciate Liam being a venom like he died because his dragon died. That would feel like very the explanation for it would have to be so good for me to like want to believe it. It would feel kind of cheap. I think Liam being dead is important. Yeah. Like, it really set the stakes for this book.

48:24 And it would kind of suck if he if he wasn't dead. I mean obviously I hate that he's dead but like. Right. Yeah, No, I agree. Yeah, and that also means he's just left Sloan high and dry. Yeah, I love Brennan. I love Brennan. I love Brennan, but Brennan? At least Violet and Mira had each other. True.

48:41 Yeah. Yeah. Also, we haven't picked Sloan for a single thing. I don't know if you've noticed that. I know I feel bad about it. I mean, maybe it's Sloan. Like, let's give her an honorable mention for the biggest role in the upcoming books because we've not seen a siphon fully trained. And we know from Kaori that Nalen was super, super powerful. So I don't know.

49:03 I know Sloan has a red dragon. I the name of that dragon is escaping me. Thor. Thor, Right. I don't know much about Thor. And part of me thinks that Nalen was mostly powerful because he was a siphon. And. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we also don't know if she has a second segment. What color was Liam's dragon?

49:20 Do we remember? Red. All right, but he died. It's not. It's not dead. It's not dead. Yeah, Day is dead. Day is dead, who would you most like? To hang out with, like Liam, Yeah. Obviously. Like, I definitely want to hang out with Liam the most. I actually. So the way that I had this question in my notes was who would you most want to grab a beer with? And my response was definitely Liam, but maybe a romantic beer. Oh yeah, I would love yes.

49:46 Yeah, I but jokes aside, I think it's a testament to how good of a hang Liam is that he's literally babysitting Violet, which drives her absolutely insane. She does not want to be watched after and she ends up loving him anyways because he's just that great. I know, it's so sad, like. And he's kind of.

50:03 Deserves Liam deserves to be the main character of his own series and he never will be. I know he's dead, so sad but. Like he never got to like, fall in love. Like it's just really sad. Like I mean, maybe he fell in love, but like we didn't get to see it. Yeah, and it certainly doesn't seem like it was fulfilled or acquitted, you know? Yeah, I don't know.

50:28 Yeah, I also had Liam. I would also grab a romantic beer with. Liam. My second pick was obviously image. Definitely, Yeah, Yeah, Unfortunately, still not a good question for us to pick Sloan because she's a miserable rash. Unfortunately, Sloan is a miserable human being in these. Books, she needs some growth. She needs an arc.

50:51 I mean, it's not fair because she said she's kind of had an arc. She goes from being mean to Violet because of Liam and then she goes to be like so guilt ridden because of Lilith that like she never really gets to be a person. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, yeah, sad. Sad. OK, All right. Were there Bora?

51:12 No, that was it. I had I put as a bonus if you want to do this, whose Cigna would be the most fun to accidentally wield during sex? For sure. Yeah, we can answer that one. You should your first pick though. OK, ironically my first pick was distance wheel. Don't weigh her. Who knows, Who knows? I don't know.

51:32 I think it could be fun. Who knows where you go, But like, if you could control it again, if you could use it to your advantage, you know, like all of a sudden you're like on a beach or on the Eiffel Tower or. Something, yeah, I mean of the cygnets we have available. So let's just like for the sake of this question, we've got distance wielding, air wielding, signet countering, earth wielding, memory erasing, siphoning. Siphoning.

51:56 Ice wielding and farsight. I have a good pool of cygnets, could choose from here. Yeah, kind of unfortunate. Maybe the wind wielding could be fun though. Yeah, if Garrick can do with wind what Zayden can do with shadows in terms of turning them into like. Exploding out around you. No, like, but that's what using them to touch. Yeah.

52:22 Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. OK, I can. Get behind that. I'm trying to think what I would actually pick. None of these are really speaking to me, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, it's tough. It's a tough one. That's why it was a bonus question. Maybe maybe I'll flip Riddick on its head and say maybe ice wielding with Liam could be could be fun. And if you're into like a do you think? Liam would be the most fun in bed. Like for sure, like as a person.

52:48 Yeah, I agree. All right, I didn't know this about myself until this episode, but like, yeah. But you were team Arc and team Liam hardcore. Yeah, I might have a blonde thing. Is not blonde. Okay, I don't. Know. Yeah, in my in my mind, he's like Bolden. But yeah, hold on, I need to look up some ARC fan art. I really thought he was like a lighter brunette. These people are also 20 which is insane. I know.

53:11 Sandy brown with green eyes. That's actually a great combo in my opinion. Okay so like this one, I don't know how to show you what I'm seeing. I can present. Should I share my screen? Sure. Are people going to see? This. I mean, they definitely will see it. All right, so like this one. Like would we call that blonde? No, I think that's Sandy Brown.

53:28 OK, I see what you're saying. Or like this one. Yeah. OK, that is Brown. Yeah, you're right. All right. Cool. I know things about. Myself, that looks also suspiciously close to what I thought Dane looked like. Hold on, let me find Dane. I mean, this is all fan art. OK, Yeah, this is. Yeah, that's Dane. What I picture is Dane and also that is what I picture as KL Westfall.

53:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they're the same in my head. They're. Very similar. Yeah, OK. All right. All right. Well, that was fun. That was fun, all right. Pre cog corner. Pre cog corner you want to go first. I want first last time. Sure. Once again I struggled to tie this to the characters in this episode. So it is loosely tied.

54:11 So where's the roll with it? OK, I'm pre cog corner theory is this is this is pretty out there OK. Mine's also pretty out there. It's bear with me. Yeah, Ben is alive and he is being contained at this guy. Stay with me for a moment, OK? We talked at length when we were talking about the ending of Onyx Storm about a quote from Panchek and Berwyn. Panchak says I'm the only one who can give you access to your son and Berwyn says I have another. You pointed out that was super weird that he said another, not others.

54:38 We started talking about paternal lines. OK, Jen commented on our TikTok, not our Jen, another Jen and said and said, when he said I have another, I thought he meant another person who can give me access to my son, not I have another son. So I took this and ran with it. Like ran like basically a marathon with it.

54:56 And here's where I ended up. OK, I'm going to go slowly because this took me fed together and I don't know if it's going to make sense to to you or to listeners. So just tell me if I'm not explaining it. Well Berwyn, if this is true, right? Berwyn has someone else who can give him access to his son, someone who has the same level of access to things at Besgayeth as Panchek, because that is where Pancheck has access to things. Lilith and Varish are dead, which basically leaves Atos and Melgren as those potential someone's of the people that we know.

55:24 And it means the sun is at Besgayeth. So here's the thing, like you pointed this out right, The Sun Pancheck is talking about can't be Jack because Jack was taken back to Orisha after the whole fiasco with the Oftening. So let's come back to our theory that Berwyn is Zaden's grandfather, which we have good reason to believe since he was a rider, but he didn't make it to graduation.

55:43 Berwyn has a tanned arm and has held the sword of Tier Endor in one of the dreams. If that's the case, there's really only one option we know of who could be a literal son and that is Fenn Ryerson. Could Fenn have known like the end is coming? The knowledge of the reason behind the tier needed to live on.

56:01 Could he have channeled to protect himself from what he knew was the proper method of execution and that was dragon fire. Like has he just been preserved this entire time in captivity at Bizgayeth? This would probably mean I don't know probably. But like I think this opens the possibility that Zaden knows and has known this the whole time and that's like a really damning thing. Which is why I went back to what he told Violet and was like, I won't withhold any information.

56:29 Information that affects your agency. This would also explain why they knows so well that the Venom want him. He's like, this is my family. Like I'm in this. OK. I also, I think you explained that very well. I also thought about pan check and the sun being fed, right, Because as you've talked about, we thought, we thought that Berwyn is Grandpa Rierson. Rierson, which means that Fen has to be the sun. Right, there's no other sons.

56:56 I thought about this. I I came to like kind of a similar place, but I went from it in a different direction. We don't know hand checks signet. I don't know if this works. I don't know this this works. But what if hand check can like commune with the dead talks like what if that's his signet? Yeah.

57:14 And that's why he's saying I'm. It has nothing to do with Baz guy if he's saying I'm the only one who can give you access to your son because I'm the only one who can talk to the dead. Yeah. Also possible. The I have another is a question and then someone said, and maybe I was misinterpreting, but like someone was like, what if it's Atos? Like what if Atos is Fen's brother, which I think would be kind of crazy.

57:34 I don't think we've had any explanation for that. Yeah. Which would make like Dane and Zane are cousins. Yeah, I don't think that works. Feels very unlikely. I like your theory more. I don't know. That's wild though, that Fen would. Be because it would be wild. It's out there like 100%. Dragon fire is not the only way Dragons can kill people, right? So if like if the dragon fire didn't work the alloy was around for one, they could stab him with the alloy. Yeah, they still would have been able to kill him, but would they have wanted to?

58:03 Like, I if this is true, I do not believe that Fen is free. Like I think he's no, of course not in captivity or something and being like kept alive the way that Jack was. I just don't think Zaden could have known, like Zaden would have done anything, don't you think, if he knew to get him free? Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

58:22 Maybe maybe the part about Satan knowing is like completely irrational because he, I mean, I can go back and look at how he speaks about his father, but it's generally with like enough mourning that especially after he like channelled, he would have done anything to find him if he knew. Yeah, but you're right. If Berwyn is Grandpa Rearson, then it has to be Fen. Fen has to be the one.

58:44 So then what does it mean? I can give you access to your son. Intriguing. Intriguing. I like the idea. What other ways could you have access to Fen? I guess you already mentioned talking to the dead. Right. And then I have another either means there's someone else who could talk to the dead or he has another son. It still it still is open.

59:02 I like that I have another meaning. I have someone else who can give me access because we think a toast is definitely about it. Yeah, yeah, there's also like a bunch of like we, we definitely get comments about like this is this is Towery like he's talking about Alec, like quite Alec. Yeah, like basically saying Alex didn't die at threshing when Satan killed him and he channelled or something like that. I don't know.

59:24 I don't really buy it. I mean, people have to be dead. Yeah. Everyone can't just be. I mean, I think Liam is dead. Liam's dead. People think Liam's offended. I don't know, Yeah. All right, OK. What is your pre card corner theory? Mine is also takes a couple steps so I'm also going to try to explain it.

59:43 Let me know if I'm doing a bad job. It's actually about slum. It's actually about Liam and slum. So I once again looked up names and the name Mary. It has Scottish Gaelic origins, like many things in this in this book, and it has two distinct meanings. The first one is bitter, which I think in the context of Sloan makes a lot of sense, right?

1:00:07 Sloan is very bitter towards Violet about Liam's death. The second one means of the sea. So I want to talk through this a little bit. We have kind of lightly touched on the idea, I think of irids coming from the sea on this podcast. We got a pot. We got a comment on Instagram. I'm from a one woman named Elise and basically the. Just fit was do you remember Heaton? The character Heaton Vaguely.

1:00:29 Yeah. They're they're third year marked one in fourth wing. Yep. Their signet dies, right? No, they're alive. Heaton is alive at the end of Onyx Storm, which I actually forgot. I thought they had died. But they are one of the marked ones who's guarding Jack in the cell. So Heaton is alive. Heaton has a signet that allows them to breathe underwater.

1:00:49 We find that out during when they're trying to steal the map from Lowe's office for War Games. So Heaton is able to bring breathe underwater. When we meet the Earids, it Elise points us out, it sounds like the earids almost crept out of the water. Like when we meet them, they are in the water, right, and Dharna is always trying to go in the water when they're in the aisles, right. And Taryn is like, I don't want I don't want to deal with wet you like with your wet scales, right, like and Dharna is always trying to go into the water.

1:01:16 Taryn keeps scolding her about how close she gets and trying to stay out of it. So Elise was like, this seems really curious to me. She pointed out if signets are based on need, what possible need could Heaton have to breathe underwater? Like why does that make sense? How could that possibly fit in here?

1:01:32 I remember Heaton is constantly changing their appearance. So Heaton tear change changes. Like they always have flames in their hair but they're either dyed red, green, purple, or magenta depending on when they are. So that seems to me to be like an irid calm right? Like heating is constantly changing their appearance?

1:01:51 Heating can breathe underwater. Kind of sounds like the irids to me. We've talked about the vibrancy of the waters on the aisles and we know the people of Hidotis are sketchy as fuck about the water and they're scared of the water and we think it's basically being overrun by venit. So in conclusion, do the Irids come from the water, right? Yeah, that's question number one. What does this have to do with the Mayeri's? You may ask me.

1:02:14 You've talked about this, right? The Mayeri family Crest being used as a lure in resin, right? So Liam's dragon is like, oh, there's like a heavily ruined box in that clock tower. It has Liam's family Crest on the. Family Crest box was the crate of Mayor's site, not the lure. Yes, sorry, but there is a box with Liam's family Crest on it, right? Right.

1:02:38 I've wrote the box in resin that's used to lure the venin has Liam's family Crest on it that we speculate has mayor site in it and that Liam's family had something to do with the discovery of. So yeah, everything could Liam's family, could the mayoris also be somehow tied to the erids to the sea and the and the venin know that and that is why that box was kind of a lure for them. Like, that's why they were going after Bresson because they were trying to find out whatever ties to the earrids there were in that box.

1:03:04 And it was a booby trap, right? I mean, it was basically a bomb. Like someone planted that box there, connects the Mayeris to the sea because Mary means of the sea. Oh, right, Mary means of the sea. So like, did the Venin see that box or know about that box thinks, OK, this has something to do with the earrids, which we know theophany is like desperately looking for, right?

1:03:25 And was it actually all? Was this actually was resin actually kind of a booby trap for the venom? Were they going to go after that box and then the mayor site was going to explode? I don't know. I think that's an interesting separate question, but my deep dive pondering down multiple trains of thought here is are the meteors somehow tied to the earrings as well?

1:03:43 I just heard a strange thought. It's not super related, so I can hold it. Well, actually, it's directly related. So resin you what triggered it is you said that was a booby trap for the venom. There was a lure and then there was a crate of mayor's site. Yeah, Liam's family Crest on it. Liam's family Crest on it.

1:04:01 Who organized war games? Atos. Atos and they like I guess. Like I figured the accepted explanation was Atos sent them to resin place to die, yet to die place that there to get the venin to come there so that they would die. Why the fuck is Atos planting something with a Mayuri family Crest on it?

1:04:22 I don't think it was Atos. I think there's a third player here that we don't know about yet, but I do think. But then how would I mean, maybe it was. Lilith. But no, Lilith didn't know. But like, yeah, like there's just a box full of explosives in the middle of the clock tower where they're trying to lure the venom. Doesn't that seem like a trap?

1:04:41 Seems like a trap to me. The. Explosives was in the outbuilding across the street and the lure was in the clock tower. However, like it's same same situation right? Like there are explosives and there's a lure to get Venom to a specific place that Atos clearly knew about because he sent them there but seemingly was not the owner of at least the crate of mayor site. There might be a third player here, one who knew that Atos was going to lure the Venom but was still trying to defeat the Venom.

1:05:07 I don't know who that would be. Isaac Mayeri would be an interesting guess. Yeah, Isaac Mayeri, who was executed in private for reasons unknown. Yeah, no, yeah. But that, that just kind of like once we started, once we started talking through the box with it, I was like, wait, no, this is a this is a booby trap.

1:05:24 This isn't like mayor sites, like highly unstable, right? Like we know that Violet thinks that when she falls back on it when she's fighting the Ocity, she thinks it's going to explode. So it's not like it needs fire. Yeah. Yeah. Which we still don't have an explanation for either. Yeah, OK, that was good fun anyway.

1:05:40 That was my pre correct theory. All right, what are you reading? The same thing I was last week, however, so I had another thing to talk about. So for everyone I'm reading, I'm rereading. I'm finishing up my reread of Acatar 1, Accord of Horns and Roses, and I also am a couple chapters into One Dark Window. I saw a musical called Hades Town. Have you heard of this?

1:06:04 Probably. But I don't know anything about it. Got to go. It was so good, actually so good. And it's like kind of I didn't realize this before I saw it, but now that I have seen it, it has like randomly A cult following. So it follows the story of are you familiar with you're familiar with the story of Hades and Persephone, right? Like Hades is the ruler of the underworld. Persephone is his wife, his wife. Like when she comes down to hell, then it's fall and winter up here.

1:06:30 And then when she comes up for half the year because her mother wants to see her spring and summer, the play follow this character named Orpheus. Are you familiar with Orpheus from Greek mythology? Like I know the name but I don't remember the details. It's like a musician, poet, right? Lyricist, whatever.

1:06:47 And this woman he falls in love with named Eurydice. And I think going into the musical, you know the story of Orpheus coming in, so you know how it's going to end. But it's still like so, so good. And the music is so good. And I highly recommend to anybody who hasn't seen it. But it's been out for a long time.

1:07:03 It's been out for like 5 years. So Hades and Persephone are like, listed as inspiration for ACUTAR. Are they? Like, yeah, like Farah is Persephone, and I'm not going to say any more than that, but yeah. Interesting, but she doesn't leave except for one. I don't know, we might have to dig into it a bit more in. Our deep dive.

1:07:21 Episodes, but yeah, that's something that always comes up. I think it's more that the male main character and who he is and what he represents. Yeah. And I actually really like that because I think Hades is accepted by like, like, people think that hell in Western culture is, like, by default, bad.

1:07:38 But I think, like, Hades is not actually the ruler of hell. He's the God of the underworld. So it's just like, you know, right. It's more than people like Malik, Like, he's not the devil, Right. Right. Yeah. Interesting. What are you reading? I have reserved from the library. I actually reserved one dark window because you said you were going to read it. And I said that sounds fun.

1:07:59 And then I got completely suckered by one of those Instagram posts where they just give you random quotes from a book. And I think there was some fan art too. I haven't really, I haven't started it yet. I read like a preview, but it's a book called Amarantha. What? No, sorry, it's not that. It's called anathema.

1:08:17 Sorry, she's writing royalty. Checks what is going on. No, no, no, sorry. As you can tell, I've been deeply rereading at Qatar this week. No, it's a book called Anathema. I think that's how you pronounce it. I've watched ATV show with a character named Anathema. That's how they pronounced it on the TV show. And it is definitely romanticity. But I think it's much, much, much darker than any of the Romanticity books we've covered, which I'm kind of excited about. Interesting.

1:08:43 But I got totally suckered by. It was literally like fan art and a quote. And I was just like, I want to read this book. This looks good. I want to read this book. Yeah, yeah. So I think that'll be fun. I'll report back. I'll let you know if I think you'll like it. Yeah, let me know. But it's more like it's Gothic.

1:09:00 It's like Gothic romanticity I guess. Cool. All right, all. Right. We are on social media drags in the details pod on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. We are also on Discord. We have a drags in the details pod server, which has been really fun. I think we're going to get a Google doc going with like a book recommendation list. One of our people on Discord reached out to me and she was going to put that together and I think I owe her a response. I apologize, but going to be a little TBR from people who listen to this podcast.

1:09:30 That'll be fun. Yay. We'll add that to our link tree. Yeah, it'll be good for me. I have no idea what to read, honestly. Yeah. Other than that, our e-mail Dragons and details, pod@gmail.com. We'd love to hear from you guys. It's always super fun. And I think that's pretty much it. Anything else? No thanks for listening.

1:09:50 Thanks for listening next. Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye.