Episode 32 - Zach Myers

0:00 I look over every single night and he's in my corner, dude, like. Are you on? Shout out to Drew. Shout out to Drew flopping my tech. He's going to like the fact that you showed up. No guitar. No guitar. He's going to hate that. He's going to. He's going to feel anxiety from from where he is, right? We got we got Zach rigged up with all the NCC studio gear. I've been wearing these clothes for three days. So it's going to come through in the tone. Hey, but here's something, although you might be where you're at now, I'm sure there's been many times on tour back in the day, bro.

0:29 Listen, there's, there's been lots of times where I've chosen to wear the same thing. This was a forced upon me thing. I was shopping right before I got here. Just I'm going to drive home tomorrow. But I I like I had to get other clothes to wear, but yeah. How how many days a year are you traveling now?

0:44 It's not what it was like. Sound of Madness days like 2008, like I remember there was a run where we did, where we were literally gone for six months, like no home straight. And then we were also in our 20s, early 30s at that time. So yeah, it's, you know, it's not as bad as it it was, but Brent and I do so much outside of China.

1:03 You guys are always doing stuff. Yeah, we do Smith and Myers, but we also we're kind of like when we there needs to be radio press or anything like we're the two that have to go do it. So it's like I'm kind of and like Brent, God love him. He's my been my best friend for 23 years now. Doesn't have a house, doesn't have an apartment, I.

1:21 Think he told me this. Yeah, it doesn't have a car. By choice. By choice doesn't rent, doesn't own anything, doesn't own a car, doesn't own an apartment, doesn't rent a lease an apartment, doesn't rent or lease a car. He literally owns a suitcase, a carry on and a cell phone. He just stays in hotels.

1:35 Stays in hotels. He's a Buddhist monk. Kinda in more ways than one. We're not going to talk about that. But yeah, in more ways than one, kind of like that. But yeah. So he's he's an odd dude, but same thing like he, you know, so that in that realm it's like he has, he's got a son who just turned 18 and like son comes out on tour with us sometimes with Mike when my kid comes out and it's like, so he's like he always wants to kind of be going.

1:58 You're like, hey man, I'm at home. Where you at? He's like, oh, I'm in Saint Louis. Or or does he always stay? I'm in LA. He's usually only in three places, you know, usually here, Charleston, Orlando, normally. So his son lives in Orlando. Got it. So in our studios in Charleston, where Eric's house is, Yeah.

2:16 He's never in like, yo, I went to Omaha for fun. Dude, I'm in Omaha. You remember that time in Omaha? Yeah, I wanted to come back. So what is your situation when you plug into gear that you've never played before? This is going to sound really weird. Every vintage guitar I've ever bought and some new guitars I've never plugged in. Oh.

2:35 For me, if it has original pickups in my head, I already go, OK, it's going to sound pretty good unless something's wrong. And if it's something's wrong, I can bring it back. But to me, if a guitar can sound good just like this, not plugged in, it's going to sound good and you can make it sound good. That's to me.

2:50 I went. But I will say I don't, and maybe this is like imposter syndrome on my part. I don't feel like I have a tone in my hands. I can literally close my eyes and you can put 100 players in here and I'll pick him out of a lineup because he's got he's got a ton. And that's that's the highest compliment, right? Like thank you, brother.

3:08 I've told this story a couple times, but I was at the Dallas Guitar Show 98 and there was this amp company called Kendrick Amps back in the 80s and 90s and they had they're doing this combo. There's Chestnut one, it had a 10 and a 12 in it, which sounds, Yeah. Interesting, I guess. And it's cool until I played it and I was like, this sounds awful.

3:28 And I left my jacket in there. And when you walk in, there was like a little retaining wall and you walk around the wall and you could see the amp. And I left my jacket and I go back in and it sounds like Cliffs of Dover. And it's Eric. It's Eric. And I go. And I was like literally, I was 14 years old going, oh, I don't have a tone like that.

3:45 Amp sounded like shit when I play. It is a weird thing when you start to think about it like that because it's like, I don't know how that happens or I don't know, because it's not like a, it's not even like you can't practice that. You know, you don't. It's just like it starts. It's an 8, it's an 8.

4:01 It's it's something that inside you, but also like you have variables that add to that you've never used to pick right that you know that's that thing right there. Your attack is going to sound different than 99% of play. 100% man. So that's, you know, that's one of those things where like I wish, like I've I've got a lot of things going for me guitar wise in a lot of different ways, right. But like, I'll always be jealous of someone who has like that tone, like because I really, and I don't, I actually don't think it's a box.

4:27 I just don't think I do. I can make my tone. Yeah, but I don't like you can play through any amp in here and you're going to. Sound like brother, you know I love you and also saying that though, and I'm going to hand a compliment right back. There's a very big difference. I feel like with a lot of players, OK, you have a tone inside of you, right? But you've been able to literally create not only a tone for guitars to be like, oh, that's cool, but also like literally like popular music tone, which is like. Did you know Shinedown Zach's band has 7.7 million Spotify listeners?

5:01 I did not. Did you know that? No, I don't have Spotify. I looked it up. And that's a month. It's definitely a testament to the accessibility of the music that you create, which I think you're talking about tone when it comes to guitar players talking about tone, but creating tone for the. For the masses, the. Grand audience, I think is way more difficult and I think a lot of people who you praise would love to have your talent in doing that.

5:26 Because a lot of the times when we are so focused and nuanced, it's really only the cream of the crop that rise to the top when it comes to guitar playing, when it comes to bands, that sort of tonal architecture that you can create is a wider variety. Especially now, like think about like even when we were like younger or like I remember growing up and listen to my brother in the 90s, it would be like Alice In Chains and like all the post grunge stuff.

5:52 Like these bands had sounds. You guys are like that now. And it's very rare to hear a band now that has like a Sonic sound or like a tone, you know? We also said about other bands. There's certain bands that make a noise and to me that's the most important thing. Like I always said, it's like people can say what they want about my band and say whatever.

6:10 No one sounds like us and we don't sound like anyone. We get people like, well, they kind of sound like, you know, because we came out around the same time. They sound like Nickelback. They sound like this and like, no, we don't. Our singer sounds different than any. I have one of the greatest singers in rock'n'roll. Yeah, he's a monster.

6:24 Period. So like the fact that like people, they sound like I'm like, no, we don't. You can, you can throw anything else on me. You can say a song sounds like you can say it reminds me of. But like that's true. Like I don't think we've ever sounded like anyone. And that's like, to me, that's like, that's Pete. We were talking about this with Bonamassa the other day. It's like so many people as well are going to listen with their eyes, and it doesn't matter if we're talking about guitar players or bands or whatever.

6:47 And I just feel like that's just something that no matter how unique you are, you'll never escape, you know, Like, you could have amazing stuff, but once someone sees you, they're going to typecast you on. And that's what those observations are, I think, are generalizations from people who have only heard one song. And they're like, Oh well, Shinedown's this because I heard two minutes of this hit song.

7:07 100% But that's, you know what? I also have to like take myself out of it and go. That's how they treat every band, you know? So it's like I can't. Welcome to the jungle. Yeah, you know, dude, if I if I read in online comments like I used to, it would be I would be in a dark place mentally. Probably.

7:23 Well wait till you see the comments on this video. They're going to be so good. There's. We have an awesome community. No, this community rocks dude. I did a Guitar World thing one time, like a playthrough for Guitar World and it's still on YouTube to this day. And it's, this is when I realized kind of like both of what you guys were talking about in the sense of like, I'm not this Steve I shredder. I'm a Blues kid.

7:45 So I got a guitar for my 12th birthday. It was a Series 10 Stratocaster pointy headstock. It was probably from like Walmart or Target or something nice. And I when I when I picked it up for the first time, I didn't know you were supposed to put your left hand on the guitar. Oh, you just what? Did you? I've got pictures of me like full Garth gear brush, popper, bolo tie, cowboy hat with a guitar up here. Didn't even know.

8:11 You're just like, I got it. I'm. Just sitting there. I'm just sitting there playing. Nothing else matters. Nothing else matters. I heard that acoustic version you guys did. Is that what Am I playing it right? It's just E Black belt in Taekwondo. So I was like play baseball, play basketball in a sports.

9:08 And then like right before my 13th birthday, I was sitting at home, I was watching MTV and a band actually that just toured with us all last year was on and I saw the greatest looking man of the 90s ever and. I was like. What the fuck is that? And so I like sat there and I was like, I was like, I got to, I got to figure out how to do that. And so I grabbed my guitar, which is probably in 11 different tunings at this point.

9:34 And I just, it was because the part of the video was live. So they were actually, you know, they actually had to be playing. So I started kind of watching it and it probably in my head right now, it sounded way better than it probably did in the living room of my apartment. But I was like, I, I want to do this. And I learned what I learned was there's a difference between creating something and and playing something and being able to write, play a song.

9:56 Definitely. And that's for me. Like the comments we I was doing, they asked me Guitar World asked me to do a song called Cut the Chord, which is the easiest song to play. There's there's nothing to it. Yeah. And on the comments, it's like, Boo gets, you know, Mark Holcomb on here. Mark's my buddy, dude. Dude, why aren't you?

10:16 And I'm like, I'm thinking about that. I'm like, dude, what if, what if YouTube was around? Like when like, you know, you're sitting there and like, like, this song sucks, dude. Dude, we've heard that I will say this. Like 7 nation army. Yeah, of course. That's the yeah, like, like, that's the same kind of idea, right?

10:35 But I'm like, I was just sitting there, like reading comments. I'm like after that I was like, I don't read comments. I I think though that guitar players and and I feel like it's not as bad as it was, or maybe it's worse. Tell me it's just always seems to always a lot of community based stuff. They're like we need more and more and more. So if you play a lick and you went right, cool, but someone will go that lick sucked.

10:58 It's never like even playing a song or playing a lick. It's just like it's never enough. Maybe that it's always like someone wants to be. Their mind needs to be blown at all times. I completely agree with you, but what I also think it is true at the same time is the people who we look up to that doesn't even register with them. They only care what they're playing, and they don't even care what external sources are looking at what. They do, but they're right.

11:24 Yes. As a result, they're just like well. No, they shouldn't care. You know, I, I my first tour ever was with B.B. King. Ever. Dude, that's insane. That's not bad. Me, me. And I know like Stevie kind of has a story similar to this, I think with maybe Albert, but like it we were he would bring us on.

11:40 There's other two other young guitar players that who I won't name on the tour as well. And they were like every night we come for the encore would be nobody loves me but my mother and Thrill is gone. And we'd all just do the BB thing that he kind of started where I was like cutting heads everybody like so I was the first on the bill.

11:56 I was the young kid. So I go 1st and like this particular night I think we were in Dallas and like I felt really good and then other kid went and I was like I think I got I'm. Doing. That thing in your head, you're like, of course, you're like you're, you know, it's always healthy competition. Like, I don't ever have a beef with anyone because like, there's enough for everybody.

12:14 Right. Of course, yeah. So and then the other kid goes and I'm like dude, like I. Feel pretty good smoked them. And then BB looks back at Tony. Coleman was playing drums at the time. BB looks back at Tony Coleman goes and he held an over 12 bars and I swear to God I put my guitar on the stand and walked off stage because I was like he what he was doing to us was like, none of that shit matters if you can do it with one note and you'll have to do it one. Note No, I totally agree.

12:42 Like I'm such a less is more guy, but then again I love fast guitar players. I think it's cool to watch. I've never had the interest. I think with those kind of players, and it's not only Blues, but like what? What, regardless of genre, a lot of players think of their guitar more as like like it's like poetry, man.

13:01 It's not about like a lick or a phrase. It's about like the overall, what are you trying to say? And I think that that's really it's like Gilmore to even Steve I and and some of that stuff you'll go, God, this is so lyrical. It's like. Exactly. That's my thing. I think playing fast. One thing, you know, the thing that you mentioned about Gilmore and VI, what's their melody?

13:23 They, it's, they're singing something that's coming through their hands. And that's what makes it great. Like, you know, I didn't get into Gilmore till like I was probably 25. Like when I was younger, I was not a Pink Floyd guy. And when I got a little older and I started listening to Gilmore solos, I was like, dude, this is the most tasteful. Money.

13:41 Guitar player, like it's insane to hear, but again, it always goes back to melody. There's some sort of melody. When I heard this thing. Like. What? Guitar can do that. Yeah, that's that's right. But again, you hear that You're like, man, that's probably him singing. Oh yeah, this. Is what I'm trying to do and I see players that are just like, alright, Yep.

14:06 I'm like, dude, God bless you. I can't, I physically can't do it. So I will give you the credit. I cannot do that. I could sit and practice that all day for a year and still couldn't do it. But also, no offense, you know, I gave you credit for doing it. I don't want to do it either. What's the technique for at the end of the day if you're not using it to really say something? But if you look at a guy like you said, like VI, who can do that but can also, you know, play the greatest melodies of all time on guitar, you're like, all right. Like that's I, I love being in the middle of that, you know, But I'm also, I'm a songwriter before I think I started out as a guitar player.

14:41 I think I'm more of a songwriter now than I am a guitar. Well, I, I feel like with you, you were able to find that like rare ground where you realize really early on you're like, hey, it's all about the songs 100% it's like. That's exactly how I said it in my. Head all the guitar playing is amazing but I need to use this to paint the song. Right.

14:59 But again, right. I want to use my guitar playing as the paintbrush. The song has to come first. Look at, you know, you know, I think the best version of that we were talking about before we started, this is Mayor, one of the greatest songwriters of this generation, one of the greatest guitar players of this generation, and doesn't overdo it, man. Whatever the song needs, that's what's there. I kind of want John to shred though you. Can't.

15:25 You need him to? You need him to. He can't. Just pull out that little pink Jackson thing that he's always got going on. You ever seen when he played the EVH? I was just thinking that dude. And he's like completely shredding. Yeah, he's. Ripping, but again, like I those are those are my kind of guys.

15:40 They have it in their pocket. It's a tool if they need it, but they know what's necessary for the song because dude, it's 10,000 hours is for anything. It doesn't matter what trade you're in, the more songs you write, the better you're going to get. You know, the more you play guitar, the better. And like, you're like, I'm, it's incredible to watch, man. Like watch you do it because every record's getting better. The songs are getting better.

16:02 And that's like, look, you look at a guy like Mary and you're like, dude, perfect songs. I say it all the time. Like he catches so much shit about certain things. And I remember when Born and Raised came out again, I'm a big songwriter guy, right? I remember hearing Walt Grace's submarine test, and I was like, I remember seeing people online kind of being like, what, you know, what the fuck is this?

16:20 And I remember going, I said to someone, I might have said an interview. I said if Bob Dylan covered that song and no one told you who wrote it, it's just Bob Dylan playing it, you would say that's one of the best Bob Dylan songs ever written. Yeah, man. Because again, like, like you said at the beginning, you judge the person, you're like, oh, fucking mayor, like, whatever.

16:40 But like, dude, that guy's one of the greatest songwriters of the last 30 years. I've I've. Period. We're. We're we're. Mayor, we're in agreement. Oh. Dude, of course every totally in agreement you started. Songwriting at the same time as your guitar playing or was the guitar taking helm first the.

16:57 Guitar was first. I, I tell people that like I went to see Jimmy Page and Robert Plant in 94 and 95. They toured both years and I went to go see him and the first time it was very acousticy and they had the orchestra and I was like, man, this is really cool and I love the songs. But I went over to see him in 95.

17:19 I was almost hesitant to go in a way. I was like, it's going to be kind of the same thing. Like, I want to hear, you know, I want to hear Paige RIP. And so like, I'm going into it with the same mindset. And like, it's at the Pyramid Arena, which is now our bass pro shops. I go up, there's like a boat up in the air, like in there. And I go up and tell my son I go, I saw Pearl Jam. That's so.

17:39 Funny, I saw Pearl Jam in the. Fishing rod section? Yeah, at the fish. Tank and like but so lights go out and and do like I'm getting chills talking about it. Like for me, I was like, I want to do that. It's happening. I want to do that. And then two weeks later saw Garth Brooks at the same arena and I looked at my dad and I said, I want to do it like that.

18:01 So I want to play guitar legitimate, but I want to put on a show like this guy. So that's kind of where it started for me. But like it was guitar first. I was I was in love with guitar. I wanted to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, like most kids growing up in that era. And then I discovered Albert Collins and Albert King and this Chris Duarte from Texas. Like guys like that.

18:19 Like not a lot of people know who Chris is. Love Chris. Chris is one of the. Greatest guitar players I've ever seen and with the most soulful too. And then anyway got a record deal. I would only been playing guitar for 11 months. Got a record deal with who? How? Did that MCA Nashville. Which would used to be a label here.

18:37 It may be again for country, but it could be now. Yeah, it was. It was MTA Nashville and it was, and it was great. And I, you know, I forced myself to sing, although I really couldn't at the time. And we covered a Chris Duarte song like on our first. Nice. Dude and. Then we did another record and then I started writing like legitimately writing like songs that were more leaning towards rock. And I would, I was so excited.

19:03 You know, I'm I'm probably 17, about to be 18 at the time. Give them the label and they're like, man, a couple of these are really good. I was like, oh dude, that like honoured. Thank you. Like who? Who do you want us to shot these two? And I was like, what? Like my? Songs, man, like wow, I was like I got to. Make a third record.

19:21 We have a three record. Like I, I got to make a third record. And they're like, yeah, but you're like this cute little. You're the bluesy kid, Blues kid. We're going to try and. Nashville, you right now and sell your song back then. You know, in the 90s, deals were not friendly. I mean, they're not, they're not friendly now either.

19:36 But no, they were like, you had to have four lawyers look over and make sure the lawyer didn't know the label because Oh my God. And so basically the only way I could get out of the deal was to break the Banda. That was kind of the only way. And I remember we were on a tour in Europe. We flew home and we're at the airport. And I was like, I was like, I don't know if I can do this anymore.

19:55 Told the band at like at baggage claim. Never forget it. I was like, I don't know if I do this anymore. And yeah, that was the end of that Zach Meyers band at that point. And but that's to me was like, that's when I like you said earlier, it's like I got to be a songwriter. I have to learn how to write songs.

20:10 And because that was that was kind of my passion. And again, like I love guitar players, but man. You know, I love Joe Walsh and I love Joe Walsh solo, but when I hear an Eagle, I can't really say that because Joe Walsh's songs are so funny. He's got some good ones, but I know what you're. Saying But you know what I'm saying? Like you.

20:24 Know when I hear take it easy I'm like, dude, I don't care if you hate the Eagles or not like you wish you wrote that song like you know those those kind of things are were what started to take over for me Are there some? Songs that you wrote in those earlier days that you can recall that are still like top of mind right now.

20:41 There's a song called this. Goodbye that I did, which is. Something simple like. That that wasn't like a normal E to C And so for me, like that's kind of what started. And I was like, oh wow. And then you come up with a melody. And like, I also think about that too. Like I wish I could go back to how simple it was when I wrote songs.

21:01 And I think because now I feel like there's so much pressure. Well, also. Like, yeah, you're like, I got to think this, this, this and this, you know, it's like we got. You get, you get a couple number ones and you're like. Oh no. What's next? Did that mess with your? Head hard. Oh yeah. How many #1? Songs have you written with?

21:18 The band has 24 #1 songs. We have the most ever in the history of Billboard or Media base or whatever, which I say that, but it's like it sounds cool and it sounds braggy, but it's like it's no dude you. Own that, I tell people it's like. Monopoly money. OK, it's like. It's good. You have in your pocket it feels good, but if you try to go spend it somewhere, it's like because they're like, oh, when we got I remember when we got like 17, they're like, Oh yeah, more number ones than Tom Petty. I'm like, so I still didn't write American girl, right? I still didn't write breakdown.

21:46 I still didn't write dude. That's the. Best way you could probably ever look at that. Yeah, it's. It's you know what, man, it's so real. It's great and I appreciate it and, and thank you to radio and billboard and all these people. But it's like, you know, for me, I, it's, it's what's next? Like what, what can we do? But anyway, to answer the question, I had so much pressure.

22:06 I remember when Madness came out and it had 6 #1 songs on one record and we toured for, we did like 400 shows on that album and then you go to write the next one. It's our third record, so it's not like, oh, we're writing our second record. Our third record was our biggest record. So you go to write that second record and we wrote a song called Bully.

22:29 I remember they picked it to be the first single. And I called our A&R guy the night before and said we can't because I wrote this. Me, Brenton, our friend Dave wrote the song. And I go, I go, we can't. This kid, we have to stop this from coming out. I go, it's going to it's going to bomb. Oh, you didn't? I was.

22:46 So you're so in your own head. About it I was. In my own hand, I was. Terrified because you know Sound of Man has had second chance. It was #1 on pop radio. Dude that that song was in Escape. You know when you're in CVS or. Walgreens and you go. It's like the soundtrack. To your to your salad. Yeah, Literally. Yeah.

23:05 Dude, it plays at Whole Foods, Yeah. And then you'll be. At the gym. Or so it was everywhere. Yeah, my favorite. Part about that era was like, I remember, you know, in the back of Rolling Stone, they used to have the chart and we got it that week and it was like Shinedown or one, and it was like Beyoncé, the Jonas Brothers, Miley Cyrus shows.

23:22 I'm like, man, Beyoncé's at home right now going who the fuck? And that's like, that was my favorite part about it. But again, all that those are big songs. So like when this new record was going to come out, I just had I just had this panic moment where all you. Guys kind of like that. No, nothing's.

23:37 Just me. Everyone else had the confidence of like, let it be what it's going to be. And again, like, I have critical imposter syndrome. It must be so. Hard, man, honestly, and I really mean this, to get to a spot where you're even thinking that way, that's got to be such like a head spin where you've had success and you've done all this stuff and then you're like, OK, let's ramp it up again. And then there's this emotion of being like, is it going to be? It's not over, right?

24:04 Like I didn't peak already, did I? That's. That conversation happened. It's happening in my head now because we got another record coming out. So it was like, but I will say, like the older you get, the more you rely on your, your people and your fans to, to, to grow with you and listen, you're going to lose. You're going to lose some people no matter what you do. We never make the same record twice. I'm trying to make every song the Best Song it can be. Now don't go in.

24:28 The juxtaposition is that I don't go in and go. I'm going to write a radio song because every time I've ever tried to do that, it's the worst song ever, the first. Note just sounds bad and it sounds. Contrived it doesn't sound real like you. We have learned as we've gotten older, just like let it come to you, man. Like, let it you know, I think there was at the beginning of this record, there was times where we were trying to force things and we had to just like, what are some of your? Songwriting techniques if you have any new ones or go to things Man I.

24:56 Write in the shower, OK and dead asleep. That's that's I found all my best ideas coming from me waking up and then and having to hum something into my notes or I'm in the shower and I leave the phone close by so it's a melody. Usually it's usually a. Melody. Sometimes it's a riff. Bully was at the riff first.

25:16 I kind of was playing it backwards from how it ended up coming out and Brent kind of hummed it the way that it is now. You guys are such a great. Duo, though, like to have like somebody that you'd be like, dude, check it out. And then he was just like, yeah, for sure. And then he hums it backwards to you. And then you're like, wait a minute, that sounds that that. Honestly, that's how it went and bully's just. Yeah, that sounds.

25:56 Cool. Yeah, that's cool. That's really cool, you know, for me. Like that and like, you know, we, I rely on the red whammy pedal so much. Our bass player Eric, who also writes a lot like a majority of our stuff too. You know, we are red whammy people. The whammy. Boys did not even necessarily. The the up and down of it. Although Down at Mattis, which is one of our biggest songs, that song is completely predicated on a Wham. Whammy goes out.

26:24 That's how it's going to sound Super weird. Who are the big whammy? Dudes I know Tom Morello. Tom Morello for. Sure. I mean, Steve Vibe, we keep bringing him up, but he absolutely has that going on. Korn, Jack. White. Jack White's a big whammy. Guy crazy stuff, right? He's got the triple graph.

26:37 Now, which he like messed with the whammy and like made his own pedal with third man something special about. The whammy though, man, I mean, when that came out I wasn't even playing guitar. But like, how long have you been playing? Guitar. Let's see, I've been playing guitar. Well dude, I've been playing guitar now for Don't say 10.

26:52 Years. No, no, no. 19 years. OK, All right. Yeah, I feel. Bad Six years. I thought you're gonna be like, yeah, dude, I started playing like 6 months before I met you. I was like no, picked up this. Les Paul on the way over here, Yeah. No, that and that's The thing is like what we would use it like Arch sound like that sound of Mana sound, Amaryllis, all that stuff is the whammy on the left side of the octave. It sounds better than any octave pedal you could ever get. I think that's.

27:15 Awesome. And just with. The pedal on, no movement. No, no. Foot. No, just the left side. I love that pedal. That pedal's great. And I have the sub machines submachines you have the. Double. Submachines the double. Every time I come. Over so this is Tyler's gear he always hooks me up and he always puts something fun on it's always a clon because he knows I he knows I love the clon Oh yeah it's. Crazy it.

27:48 Sounds great. Yeah, it sounds super safe. I love that you always. Put the claw on your board. He always does see without the without the kind of warble of that like that would be the sound of bullish. My board is actually only a wah analog wah, analog whammy volume. And then drew drew controls everything else. And as far as stomps go, tube screamer claw kind of a carbon copy for delay used to be the line 6, the big lines, the green one dimension C chorus, and that's kind of it. I don't really fucking awesome I. Couldn't put that.

28:25 Together for you, man. Yeah, next time they have that together. Yeah, my favorite stuff. Sometimes in my head I'll imagine it's this crazy thing, and now I'll hear it back and it's really just like a simple riff. But it's the it's how it's played and it's like, you know what I mean? The energy, everything's like. That like if you think like if you think, think of the greatest riffs, right, the the all time it comes on, people know it immediately.

28:50 Name one that's like super hard to play. Dude, I always think of fucking. roasted. Dude, you guys suck. Blame dude. Where's Mark Holcomb? Holcomb is. Always the go to dude everyone. In me and Mark are buddies with both like PRS guys Yeah so the fact and by the way this is Jared's for everyone watching it played so good.

29:20 There is APRS right here that I was playing, but I am playing to a PRS amp so everybody's good. Don't. Blame him. Just blame me. So if somebody's like mad about it, just be like, oh, it was Jared. Like putting it. I literally put it in his hands. No PRS. Knows that I have so much love with him.

29:34 Dude you've done a lot with. PRSI got my PRS. Here just representing how many years with. PRS 20, 30/19/90. 6 January 96 actually just posted a photo on the anniversary of when I got my first PRS, so yeah. January 96 So did you like meet Paul? Right away and like Paul. Two years after I got my first one, so I guess 28 years and they used, you know, I don't.

30:01 Is there still a Nam here? No. OK, well, they used to do, sadly used to be a Nam here. And Paul used to do this, that he would do themed booths where every guitar would be white or every guitar would be red. Oh, wow. So here I went. Every guitar was red. He made every single guitar just like this red. And I got to meet Ted McCarty, which was a I'm a kid, you know, so meeting them, and I've been with him ever since. This is my 4th, 4th or 5th iteration of my signature model, Yeah.

30:28 Yeah, you've done a ton. It's going great. I. And and dude, you know, to me, and you know this, I'm sure, but like when it comes to a company who's going to take care of your artist relations, there's companies that are great at it and there's companies that are not great at it. And for me, like I'm at the point now where like I always thought it was weird that like when you can't afford anything, you got to buy everything and then when you can afford everything, they give you everything for free. Totally backwards.

30:52 And and that's the. Thing I think you should give it to the up and coming kids who are who are struggling and need that stuff. But I will say like, I don't need to not pay for it. I'll pay for whatever. Give me a good deal on it. You know, don't. Yeah, hook me up the street. Cost but I'll but. But also all I need to know is like if it goes down, if I need something, if I need a part, if I need this, it's there immediately and you answer the phone or you answer any.

31:13 Especially with you, man. It's like the stuff you're getting, you're going to be using. You're like, hey, I'm going. To need ASC 2:45 and I need 2 Mccarty's a 594 and there was a day. There was a day you got a little stash. Where I did that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I got about 260 guitars right now. You've sent me pictures and I'm like, dude, like it's very bad. And I need to, I need to like, I'm the guy who feels bad that these guitars aren't getting played, but like, I'm also getting to the age where I can put some sort of sentimental value on anything.

31:42 So I'll walk around the guitar room and I'll go, no, I need that one. Jim Root, Yeah. Your. Guitar room looks sick dude. Like I got up, dude. I got that tomato soup burst, Bonamassa that that Joe gave me. I'm like, can't get rid of that, can't get rid of that. Can't get rid of these things. That people gave me or like, I'll be like, man, this was at a Guitar Center sale in Peoria on Memorial Day.

32:01 I've got a literally a telly that I bought at a Guitar Center sale on Memorial Day in Peoria. And I'm like, man, I got that for so cheap. I can't sell it of course. So that's, that's my problem now is I need to kind of like put like pink sticky notes on stuff and then just have Drew come in and like sell everything without me knowing.

32:17 Yeah, just like when I'm. Gone like come in and just clean it out, clean house. Like I, you know I've made a list. Of 10 guitars when I was in middle school on my on my notebook, and I've got nine of them now. The only one I don't have is like a 68 Paisley telly. And of course, you know, I've could have bought one 100 times, just hasn't the.

32:36 Time hasn't been right. This the the moment. Also it's. It's how you get it and that but also did a little bit of it's like, do I want to complete this list? Yeah, you maybe. Got to keep that baby. Oh, maybe you need to. Add to it just be like amend. Funny enough, one. Of them was like Garth Brooks Takamini, not a very, you know, not the most sought after guitar.

32:54 But years ago 2014, I gave him one of my signature models because again to going back to that story wanted to wanted to play like Jimmy Page wanted to be like Garth Brooks. I got to give him a guitar in 2014. I gave him my signature model. Dude, that's in my head, dude, this is my hero as far as entertainers go.

33:12 And in my head I'm like this thing's going in a closet and I don't care. I don't care. I got to meet him crying, you know, gave him the guitar. And they, he comes out on stage and, like, they're halfway through the show and he's about to play Khan, Baton Rouge, and he comes out with my guitar, dude.

33:29 Like, dude. Yeah, Yeah. And like, my wife has thoughts of video of me, like I'm screaming in the background. Nobody knew that. Was about to happen. Nope, not. Me. No one told me and I've since become close with Garth and his and his tech and and a lot of his crew. But that night, it's full circle. Right there, one of the assistants. Come out and they're like, hey, like, can you come back here for a second?

33:50 I'm like, you're so like Garth wanted. He had already laughed and he's like, Garth wanted to give you this. And it was the guitar. He played the whole tour. So now I have the I have the Garth Brooks Tacamini and it's like all chewed up dude. And I'll be honest, I it's in my guest room of my house and I forget that it's there. I just did like a Cribs episode and I like forgot to show it. I was in there the other day talking to my wife and I'm like I forgot to this is like one of the most important thing I should have.

34:14 Greeted them at the door with this should. Have been the door handle. This is my door handle to open my door my dude that. Story just blew my mind yeah that's crazy I. Grow with no money in in a very rough part of Memphis, TN and place called Nutbush. And so like nothing is expected like to the the fact that anything still happens blows my mind.

34:37 You know I've gotten a key to my city. Nothing means more than that you know like to a city that I still ride for to this day. I'll never leave. I'll never move out of that city. And you know, the Garth Brooks thing and you know, the, the how more #1 billboards than anyone. Like it's all great, but it's like, I don't expect, you know, every time we release a single, I'm like, this is the last one, you know, not in a negative way.

35:01 It's just like this could. Be it and it's also maybe. Trying to talk yourself into hyping yourself up again. That imposter syndrome. When it kicks in, it kicks in pretty hard. Sounds like it's a. Way for you to keep an even keel of your expectation by being like yeah, that's probably the last one because if you hype yourself up you're not going to make the music that's made you so successful you're you kind of have to operate from that place of feeding yourself down a little bit and it's.

35:25 I don't. I hate. I hate to to think of it like, I think you might have just described it perfectly, but I hate to think of it as like beating myself down to keep humility. I don't think I could ever get out of humility just because again, where I came from and like the way I was raised, I was raised by good people And like, but you know, the fact that I've got his number on my phone or I've got Joe Bond, a monster, I have Garth Brooks or I have you can have mine.

35:46 At. The end of the day, dude, we're just dudes who play guitar, so the fact that any of this has gone well is insane. The fact that I own anything, that's because it's more. Than 100. Dollars because I played the guitar and travelled around the world with my best friends. If you wrote a script, you're like, there's no way that ever happened, you know, And it's like, it's crazy to think of that.

36:07 And the fact that like, again, I've had this life, like, dude, it's, and it comes from right? It all comes from the fans, right? So like for me, like those are the people I take so seriously. Like, of course, that's, that's, that's the bread and butter. But like, again, when you take a step back and you're like, dude, you bought a house, you bought cars, you take care of your family, your wife, your kids because of this, because of. The shred bro.

36:27 George Lucas isn't writing that dude at the beginning of time. Like come on, the quickest way to. Earn $1,000,000 as a guitar player is to start with 2,000,000 let. Me. Just go from there. That's a good one, that is. So good, So what? What about your your guitar playing? You were a Blues man of sorts.

36:44 I'm still a Blues guy. Like I can't rock solo. Listen to any Shinedown solo. Any one of them and you're like, oh, that's just, that's the bluesy stuff. That's the Blues he's. Playing it through a diesel, yeah, yeah, it definitely. Is a rock'n'roll band, but they're Blues elements. Oh, there's there's so.

37:00 Many and like you can tell like Eric, so like Eric will write solo sometimes Eric, our bass player is a phenomenal guitar player and he'll write a couple of solos. Nick you can tell which ones are him which he's like he he's a better. I think he's a better guitar. That's a certain. Kind of bass player.

37:14 Those bass players who also RIP guitar. Prettiest star last three. Albums they're next star last three just the the. Genius on multiple fronts. He's literally really a. Genius and again he he says he will tell you that I'm a better guitar player than him. I disagree. I think I'm a very consistent guitar player. I think once I got something I got it and but that guy can play things that I can't play truly.

37:36 It sounds like he. He's like all over everything now he's which is a great man. Bandmaker. He did a. Record called Air Bats says I presents as I had a name that came out last year and it is such an amazing rock record and he played everything so I mean just such a talented guy but you can definitely hear the differences like you know there's solos like where you're like all right, that's that's probably an Ericsson probably though when. He watches you play, which is one of the things I like about your playing.

38:02 There's still a reckless abandonment of a guitar player and there's still a little bit of angst behind it. And I feel like sometimes when people play guitar that are like really great, I'll go, yeah, that's good. But it it doesn't needs more pain. It doesn't have that. Like black cat firecracker thing where I go oh oh is it going to work?

38:17 That can get you in trouble. Because. That's how I am. That's. How I play, it's very reckless, abandoned. We just did a song. Me and Brent just did a song with a another huge rock band and like, we go in the studio and like, they're like, all right. They're like just kind of riff on this last part of the song.

38:32 Joe's also on the song. Joe, bottom loss, OK. I'm not going to say. Who it is because it hasn't come out yet, but I'm doing the whole last part of the solo at the end and singer, the band, the producer. Like, dude, do what you just did again. Do you have this problem? Oh yeah, And you're like. What did I do? No.

38:51 I do like listen back. And be like, oh, I think I can get back into that head space. I listened back. To it to the point I listened back to it five times. They had to solo it where they had to isolate it because I was like, I don't know what I because again, I'm just a Blues kid. I'm just I'm playing what I'm feeling at that time. I don't remember now.

39:07 There's been times in the studio showing where I've written a solo diamond die solo I kind of crafted and came up with on the spot and, you know, put a little few things in there here and there when we first met. Though I remember like we hung out and like Zach literally like took me under his wing and we went and got food or whatever and right away we were like influences. A lot of the same influences.

39:32 Kind of play the same style like very much again, he like I can't. There's certain things you know, that I cannot do. I wish I could do, but you know, like that's The thing is like when you meet people like that that are like minded totally, you know, it it you kind of hit it off, brings out the best. In you, absolutely, but.

39:46 Also it's like. When you don't have to like explain everything to the other person because they already know, look up your wavelength. It's like, yeah, we're good. You were describing with the. Songwriting dude to me. Our whole band is a racquetball court now. How cool. That's a great. Way to think about bounce the ball and.

39:59 Someone's going to catch the ball or someone's going to hit the ball. And literally that's my favorite thing about like, you know, it's weird. I respect these writers so much that Jason Isbell is a really good friend of mine, obviously another another mayor guy where it's like greatest songwriter, probably the greatest songwriter of this generation truly as far as I'm concerned, and just incredible guitar player. He is incredible.

40:23 So incredible. And different of how he plays, but same thing, right? Like, I'll watch that guy and I'm like, I have people send me. Clips of Jason playing, they'll be like, dude, I was I'm at the concert and they'll send me a clip and I'll look at it. I'll be like what the like even to this now I go, he's so good. He's so.

40:40 Good. But like watching guys like that play, you know, like that, that inspires you to go, man, what the fuck am I doing? You know what I mean? Like it's, it's it's pretty cool to see. You know, I love bands that make a sound. You know, I look back at like you watch, you know, that early STP stuff like rock, as far as rock bands, you know, and like, you know, there's bands that you know how to sound Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, awesome. But the bands that came out later, you know, you, you look even bands like Velvet Revolver, which is I was just going to say.

41:04 Velvet Revolver on an Audioslave in that era. It was like, oh dude, when that. Audioslave Record came out those bands. Like this might be the. Best rock band of the next 20 years when you but. When you hear that, when you hear a song, you're like, I know who that is. And that that's to me the most important thing like like knowledge by being audible, you're like, all right, well, I hear this.

41:24 I know who this is. Like if I play a riff, I would love for someone to like. And that's the thing when we just came out with a new single called Safe and Sound. They hear it and they're like. I think that's the best. That's the best dude. What's what's exciting? About this new record that we can expect, we kind of threw.

41:41 Everything at it. So there's there are definitely again, we're not we're not a look back. Bam, we've never done a greatest hits. We've never done. We're not interested, which you probably. Could we? Probably. Do 2 of them in there. Yeah, seriously. No interest. We're again, we're not a look back, Bam, but there's definitely nods. I think on the last record we started like we like referenced the song 45 and a new song and like we were so anti that for so long where it's like again, we're not going to look back, but we'll do little nods and like like save and sound like that.

42:11 There's another couple songs on there that sound like they could have been from sound to madness. And so for me, what's exciting about this record is it's very eclectic, like every record we do we, you know, I call Shinedown a no lane highway. So you kind of, you can have the poppy stuff, you can have the rock stuff, you know, and, and that was kind of the, the best reaction to me about when safe and sound came out was that they're like, I think some people thought we'd kind of like lost it for a minute as far as like that heavy kind of like, and then you slap. That one on them.

42:37 Take this and there's more. There's more of those on the record. So I'm excited, man. You know, it's, it's, it feels like in a way, like I said this to to Brent, like, you know, Eric did this record. We did it in his studio. It's like we used pretty much every song we wrote for it. Like it feels like the end of a certain era of us, not the end of our band.

42:58 Obviously we're still 4 best friends and like our band gets long better than any band I've ever seen. That's so awesome. And but it feels like the end of something in a way. And it may be our last record on our label. We don't know. We'll see what they what they decide to do, but this was the last one of our extension from the first time.

43:14 So, you know, it's it's a, it's a record that I'm really looking forward to. Eric crushed it again. You know, we kind of on records, it's like he'll get frustrated and go hand me the base and go, all right, you're playing baseless. And I'll get frustrated and hand him the car because he'll it's a song that he wrote.

43:29 I'm like, I don't know how to fuck. Yeah, you play. It that must be kind of. A relief as a band to be like, well, dude, that's a real. Team man, Yeah, man, dude, he's. Again, man, our whole band is is that it's it's it's it's all for one, one for all. And in the sense of like, you know, it's it's very community.

43:44 And but as far as Eric goes, like we started the tour last year in Des Moines. I wake up that morning and I'm like, I feel a little off anyway, take a piss. There's like a white towel down on the floor back when there's like a red drop that hits the towel. And I'm like, oh God, I'm dying. I have can't, you know.

44:09 And then I call, we have like a band doctor and I text him. I'm like, dude, I don't know what this is. He's like, buddy, I think you I had kidney stones two years before. He goes, I think you got kidney stones again. I go, no, I go and I'm texting him. I go, I don't feel. And the second I typed feel my side started hurting and I was like Oh no no. The night.

44:28 The Tour. Starts 13,000 people sold out. I don't know what the. What kidney stones are like? I know what it is to pass them, but what is it like when you have them like that? Passing them is. Nothing. Yeah, but. Playing You can't do that right Or I. Did no dude, the amount of text I got from my peers in this industry for doing that because so I the first time I got them.

44:51 We're in Connecticut. I passed it before the show. I was I was good. I went to the hospital the night before this day main support bands about to be getting off stage. I'm still laying in a hospital bed. Oh no. Show up. I'm you know, I'm I've never done the fun thing about fact about being never done a drug in my life. Don't drink like never even smoked weed. Like none of that.

45:11 I'm higher than an eagle's Dick at this point dude. I'm on court all I'm on before it all. I'm on fentanyl before fentanyl. Was really what it is today pre. In the news, so and I do the show. But anyway, the point of that story is that day, because our band is who our band is. Eric goes into because we run.

45:35 We do run. I know that's a big debate, but we run tracks like string tracks and like, it's not stuff that you're. Playing it's ambiance that's the biggest. Misconception about when I say I'm cool with it because like everything you're hearing on the stage that ain't on there, yeah, you could turn that off and no one in the crowd is going to know.

45:51 But it's, you know, Second Chance is a 40 piece orchestra. I want people to hear that there. There's no vocals, There's no, you know, there's no guitars running. No, but also it comes. Down to that's, that's like an entertainment aspect. Yeah, dude. I want it sound fuller, but yeah, there's no guitars, no drums.

46:06 Everyone. Everything you see us doing, we're doing. Yeah, yeah, for better or worse some nights. But so we Eric went and recorded bass for the whole set list and to the system and sat down and learned every guitar part for the whole show. 19 songs and was like ready to go as a three piece with bass on track just in case just so we didn't let people down.

46:30 So like dude, that's the community of our band where like that guy takes his whole literally his whole day from noon on set there. We have a jam room backstage which has a drone case, guitar and set there all day. You know why? You're lucky to have that guy is because that guy thought that was fun.

46:46 Yeah, dude, he loved me. I think I'm. Going to be. Honest. I'm going to be honest. I think he was bummed when I showed up. Yeah, he showed up. He was like, I was going to play guitar. He was like, dude, I was looking forward to it because he is a guitar player first. So hold up you. Did you pass the kid? Yeah.

46:59 So what happened? So I did the first. Three shows with kidney stones. It was awful. Oh my. Gosh, it was awful it. Was awful, I was doing 3 Ivs a day just trying to pass fluids Ivs. Massage red. Light I was doing everything I could do two days off in Michigan, I text our head of security and I go, dude, I'm going to end my life if I do not get this take care of.

47:22 He calls our band doctor. We go in the back door of University of Michigan Hospital walk in. I'm in surgery in 10 minutes. Here's the best up part. They had to leave a stint in. If you don't know what that's like for a man, it goes from where you think it goes all the way to your kidney. Dude, I would have rather have had the kidney stones. Oh.

47:43 No, right? More like a so like in our stage, our stage. Takes up the. Whole arena floor and again I don't loiter on stage no, you're running it's a full contact sport yeah you're you're like. WWF up there my our show. Is a rugby match, Yeah, they're. Ripping I'm I'm running. Around I'm again, I'm not gentle on a guitar No and I dude, I I'm walking like an old I'm like.

48:06 I couldn't keep my legs. Together because it hurt so bad a couple of the before I went in the surgery, a couple of the nurses like can we take a picture? I was like, yes, you're and so he's in the. Ground he's like what's up? So like I think the. Doctor thought I was being like an asshole about this, but at the end of surgery goes, hey, we have to we have to leave a stent in there. And I'm also high out of my mind. I just came out of so you can't.

48:27 Even feel it yet anyway and. I go, he goes. So whenever it was like 5 days from then, it was like, I was like, wow, I'm being New Orleans. She's like, so you're going to have to just pull it out and I go. And I think he thought I was being like pretentious because the couple of nurses knew who I was. I go, I go, do you recognize me?

48:43 He goes, I know some of the nurses. I go, no, no, do you recognize me? I go. That's because I don't work here. I'm not pulling this thing out, dude. I had to pull it out myself. I was pissed. God, he did it. How bad? Did that hurt? It wasn't fun. You had to go. Slow and steady. Well, that's what I.

48:59 Texted my doctor. I go, I go do I RIP do I? He goes, he goes medium, just medium and just once you. Start, don't stop. Once you start, don't stop. That's it. And like once you here's the thing, it's the psyching yourself up to do it. Once I did it, it felt like I never had a kidney stump. I was like walking. I was like I was sex to my wife.

49:18 Great. This is the greatest thing this ever. Like I feel like a normal human being. Wow. Anyway, don't get Kitty stumps, kids.