792. Dave Scott: UFO Disclosure, Government Secrets, Bigfoot & the Flight 21 Mystery

0:20 Hello and welcome to the show. We're actually live tonight and we haven't been the last couple of shows been prerecorded and one of them very edited nicely. I'm going to talk about that in just a second. My name is Martin Willis and thank you so much for joining us. And I hope you had a chance to catch last Tuesday show with Charlie Fultz and Jim Weiner, two of the men who were involved in the 1976 Allagash abduction.

0:45 There's quite a few things that have come out in the conversation This time, some of them are pretty chilling. Some of them are really fascinating. So if you haven't watched that yet, I actually encourage people to watch that on YouTube because it's edited really nicely. And I think you'll enjoy it that way. There's a lot of great images that come up that are pertinent to the conversation.

1:07 So tonight, we're joined by someone who's been on the show a few times. He's a good friend. He knows the UFO world from both sides of the microphone, Dave Scott. He's a creator and host of Canada's Spaced Out Radio. I've been on his show a number of times till the wee hours of the morning. And he spent more than a decade talking with researchers, witnesses, experiencers, all about UFOs and things unexplained. And he's also had some pretty remarkable experiences of his own. And we decided not to set any particular agenda for tonight. So we'll just see where the conversation takes us. And I'm sure we will get into disclosure government secrecy, et cetera, things like that in the current state of the UFO. Research and a

1:52 few things that neither of us are really expecting. I'm sure that'll come up. Before I bring Dave in, just a little bit of housekeeping here. Next Tuesday, the 20th at 8 p.m. Eastern, we have Ron James joining us. Then on Thursday, at the same time, we'll be talking with Indy Peterson, and he is going to be talking about orb encounters. It's going to be a very interesting conversation.

2:16 Make sure you're back a week from tonight to hear that. So I just started reading Jay Stratton's new book. And I have to say, it really starts out with a hook. And then I'm just in the start of it on chapter five. And he's kind of recounting things that we already know, if you've been looking at this for a long time. But we'll see where it goes. And he is only going to be interviewed by major news places.

2:42 I'm sure he'll be on Rogan. But not small potatoes like someone who's been doing this for 15 years. But anyway, be sure to stop by podcastufo.com and check out this week's blog by UFO history buff Charles Lear. This is the third and final series of the Gulf Breeze. It's part three, Gulf Breeze UFO Saga. And so check that out.

3:06 That's the last on this one. And it really is interesting. You can check out hundreds of blogs over at Podcast UFO. And finally, a big thank you to all who listens joins us live, and all those who support the show. I really do appreciate it very much. All right, it's time to bring in our guest. And welcome, Dave. Always good to have you back.

3:30 Martin, it is always great to be with you. Hope you've been doing well. And I'm excited to be on. I really am. Thank you for having me.

3:38 For those who are listening on audio only, we see a big foot in the back. no trespassing, crypto access only, et cetera, et cetera. Pretty fun studio you got going there.

3:50 You know what's funny about this, Simon? I know the podcast people can't hear it. About a month and a half, two months ago, my neighbor shows up at my house. And Chris and Amy are their names. They're just wonderful people. You always want good neighbors, and I lucked out. And so... During the summertime and spring, when it's warmer, I actually will have my studio window open. And so when Chris, who works out of town, when he's at home and working in his yard or his shop, I guess he could hear me doing the show. And so one day he decided, I've got all this extra stuff around. I'm going to make Dave a sign. So he made me this sign that says, no trespassing, encrypted access only. Unfortunately,

4:41 due to the lighting in my studio, you can't see that it's actually lit up. But yeah, it was quite a shocking and really cool surprise.

4:49 That's very nice. Very nice. So I don't know where you want to go. I thought I'd throw a couple things out when just you decide just with, I guess what I want to just start out with you is I know you've interviewed hundreds of people in this field. And I just want to know, has your understanding of the UFO phenomenon changed? since you started the Spaced Out Radio.

5:11 And let's tell people, you're on five days a week, every night?

5:15 Five days a week, Monday through Friday, 9 p.m. Pacific to midnight Pacific. We're syndicated on eight different radio stations, two in Canada, six in the U.S. Wow. And we continue to kind of grow. And I don't know how to podcast. I don't know how to do YouTube or social media, but I do know how to do radio.

5:37 And We just kind of formed this niche over the years of being that voice of the weird and strange at night. There's not many shows outside of maybe Jimmy Church or Coast to Coast AM that are doing what we're doing on a nightly basis. We may not be the biggest, but we have a lot of fun. We have a lot of entertainment. And if we could turn the woo up a little bit and people could sit back and enjoy it, that makes it better for me.

6:05 But getting to your question about Has my view on UFOs changed? I would say yes. When I first got into this, I got into this because I had my own close encounters and experiences. I wasn't able to find answers to what I was looking for because I could find things that were similar to what I had seen and had happened to me, but never anything that paralleled exactly what had happened to me. And that's kind of the reason why I started the whole radio show back in 2014. And fast forward to 2015, 2016, and then 2017, when the To The Stars Academy came out and everything was UAP this, UAP that, and it just never resonated with me. And the downside of spaced out radio is for a lot of people, even though I do it

7:04 full-time five days a week, I still have to have a daytime job to pay my bills. I still have to work a daytime job. And there are times when I don't get to put in the time that I want into the show that I think could make it so much better, stronger, even more journalistic, because I do have a journalism background. But I would say my attitude has really shifted into where everything was potentially a UFO thing to we see the explosion of the UAP term, which I've talked to so many people within the background who will say, and I take a lot of heat for this, and I sound like a broken record every time I say it, but I've talked to too many people not to believe that a UAP is a man-made object, and I don't think they really know what a UFO is.

7:59 Do I think they have crash recoveries? Yes. Do I think they have alien bodies?

8:03 Yes.

8:03 Yes. Do I think that maybe, just maybe, they have a Starlink set up to some distant planet where they can communicate with some of these extraterrestrials that may be visiting here? Sure, why not? It wouldn't be very woo-filled if I didn't say that. But I would say my attitude, I've become a lot more frustrated in the process because I see the shell game being played. Many people do not.

8:33 many people will say that I'm in the minority of what I see and that I'm just becoming a cynical jerk on the air, whereas other people were trying to open up their eyes to see that I believe people are getting played in this whole system by the government, by these insiders. I think we loosely define people as whistleblowers when they're not. I think they're experiencers who are telling a story. And one question that I have is, and this may seem vague, but what's the difference between my experience where I saw a UFO on the ground?

9:09 What's the difference between what I saw and somebody who had a military jacket on? There is no difference, right? At least in my opinion. Like I said, that's a pretty vague comment and a vague question to make. I do understand that. But I often wonder whether or not they're taking this as seriously as they say. And I become fickle in my thinking on how the UFO game, I don't think we're playing for disclosure. I believe we're, as Robert Bigelow said, and I've stated for years, we're playing for confirmation of the phenomena. And I think there's a lot of people out there publicly trying to figure out how they can get rich off of this, this threat narrative that is continually shoved down our throats. So no,

9:59 I don't have a, as good of an eye for it. But I will say this, if I can counter myself for a minute. I believe people more. The people just like in your audience or listening to this, or people who listen to my show, who say, this is what I saw. This is what happened to me. I've always believed people, but I believe them even more now because they've got nothing to hide. They've got nothing to lose.

10:29 They're not under an NDA where every book they write or every word they say has to be cleared before they can say it. It's natural. And am I for catastrophic disclosure? Yes, 100%. Because my disclosure is different, Martin, from your disclosure. It's different from every audience member that listens to your show or my show. My disclosure is I want everything. I want Roswell. I want to know if Eisenhower traded humans for technology. I want to go down that woo road that literally opens up every stupid question that we may have, but every genius question that we may have. I want to see the video from Holloman. Okay, that's disclosure. I want to know what happened at Roswell.

11:21 How many bodies did they pick up? We need to know. Why do we never talk about San Augustine when there was two crashes that day, but we only talk Roswell? What about the second crash where there were five bodies on the ground? We need to talk about that. We need to talk about whether or not Bob Lazar worked on these craft at Area 51. When we get the answers to those questions, I would say, That is disclosure.

11:49 What they're feeding us now is a bunch of WWE promos from whoever is talking, whether it's Burleson, whether it's Burchette or Annapolina Luna or even Elizondo, Stratton or Grush or whoever. They're feeding us a bunch of WWE promos, hyping us up for the big match, and then they show us dots on the tranches. They show us AI renderings.

12:16 They show us Walter Cronkite interviews. So have I become a lot more disingenuous with UFOs? Yes. Wow. That was the long answer, by the way.

12:30 Yeah, that was. But one thing I do want to counter on one of your comments, and that is I do believe there is a difference with military, and I'm telling you why. Because of the reaction that they get. of the reaction that they're supposed to cover. I have someone coming up named Tony Woody. He was in the Air Force and he's coming up. I believe it's an edited in-person interview that I had with him. But you're going to hear how the reaction is to that, how to keep it quiet. You never saw this, that type of thing. So in that way, I do think the military is when they say something, they're allowed to say something after they've been told to keep quiet. Then I think it It does matter. I also love the stories.

13:16 I like going to conferences and all of a sudden someone will come up to me and say, hey, can I tell you what happened to me? That type of thing. I love those stories. And you hear some, I've talked about this a couple of times. I don't want to wear it out, but someone from my childhood, when I remember hearing about a UFO encounter, was telling me that it was a silver orb that was chasing her on their horse, on their horses. There was two people on horses.

13:41 And that was in 1965 or four, something like that. There was no silver orbs running around as drones or whatever they're trying to call them, that type of thing. But anyway, I thank you for all of that. We do have a lot of questions coming in chat. Thank you all for being here in chat. And I'll try to get to your questions. And might as well just post one of them up here right now. Coming up with, we have the real Bob Lazar. He's the real one, by the way, just to let you know. He always comes in and watches us. Hi, Dave. I'll come to your current government and prime minister, Mark Carney. does not take the UFO topic seriously, especially since Canada former Defense Department Minister Paul Hellyer said ETs exist.

14:22 I will start off with this. Paul Hellyer believed that the Canadian government was in touch with two different extraterrestrial species. And I heard why.

14:32 I heard he was told that.

14:34 Yes.

14:34 That was his answer.

14:35 My last communication with him was back in 2019. where I sent him an email, and because his health was failing, he wasn't doing any interviews anymore at that time. But he did tell me that he did believe that there was a secret group of about 11, 12 people that included RCMP members, members of CSIS, and other government agencies that were looking into the UFO topic. And so it was very real. Now, if we rewind back to... When was it? I'm going to say 2019. We knew and we broke the story that Justin Trudeau had been read in on the UFO subject. For those who don't know, and I always plan on keeping this quiet until Lou Elizondo outed me on it. And that was, I actually helped set up the first conversation between members of parliament

15:35 and Lou Elizondo, Chris Mellon, And a couple others to get the door open. And I don't even, I don't even know if you knew that Martin.

15:45 I did not know.

15:47 And that was around 2021 when that conversation happened, when I put the groups together and I will tell you, I did something that I don't know if I did it right or not, but when I set up that conversation, I respected the privacy. of both sides, and I step back. I don't know if I should have did that part of the journalist in me says, boy, Dave, you really screwed that batch up. But the other side says you made some trust with some sources for setting that up, and which has happened. Now, I do know Justin Trudeau, when he was prime minister was read in between three and five times, three times for sure. As far as I have heard, Mark Carney has been read in at least once. But the problem that we have going on

16:40 in Canada, and this could be a very political conversation, is we have somebody who has... No, I'm not going to go there because I could get real political right now and I don't really want to. I don't think there... I'll answer it this way. I don't think there is a genuine... interest in this. We have the Sky Canada project that Dr. Mona Niemer, Canada's top scientist, had put together, and that was actually delayed by about four or five months before it was finally released earlier this year. And I know somebody who helped put it together, one of my sources helped put that together, that there is a cause for concern for the activity that is happening in Canadian airspace. But In Canada, we kind of have this

17:31 rule that if we don't talk about it, it doesn't happen. Maybe it comes down from the monarchy. Maybe it just comes down in the political way. We never hear of the great battles that Canadians have fought in the world. We hear about some of them, like Yipra and Passchendaele and D-Day, but we never hear about what our guys are doing in more recent, say, 20, 30 years. They seem to keep that quiet. They don't want to know what we're doing. And I think this is another one of those situations because it does involve defense. It does involve security. But the one thing that did come out of the report from Dr. Mona Niemer is that they did label any UAP slash UFOs as non-threatening, which I think goes against the grain. I do know that conversations

18:26 that I set up between the Canadian government or members of the Canadian government and Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon kind of went toxic because they wanted to push, they being the U.S. contingent, wanted to push a threat narrative over Canadian airspace. And the Canadian Department of National Defense actually came out a couple of years ago and said, no, we don't have any issues with the UFOs. They're not buzzing our nuclear facilities. We don't have nuclear weapons here, but we do have nuclear power plants. We're not buzzing them, even though there are reports. I think the topic also stalled a little bit when Member of Parliament Larry Maguire stepped down and retired before the last election. He was

19:12 the one pushing it. But I do see that the person who replaced him, Brandon Leslie, I believe his name is, he's now starting to ask some questions about UFOs. and UAP as well. So I think that we fell into that lull. I don't think Mark Carney has any interest whatsoever in the subject. Nobody ever brings up Paul Hellyer except for the UFO crowd. So that's kind of where we stand on it. Wow.

19:42 I am showing you this email right here. My last time that I talked with Paul Hillier was in 2020, on January 7th. And I'm not sure, I can't remember when he passed away. It was the following year?

19:55 It was shortly after that. Yeah.

19:58 Yeah, I remember. I thought it was like less than a year later after that. But anyway, I never got him on the show. He'd say, call me back or get back to me and I'll here and get back to me and get back to me. And it just never happened. Unfortunately, sometimes that, Oh, 2021 is when he passed away. Anyway, thank you for that. Here's a, Oh, are we going to get into charlatans? I didn't really read this question yet. Hi Dave, without naming names, how many charlatans do you think you've interviewed?

20:31 I love this question, by the way, I've never been asked this question and I love this question. I will say this. We have a band list. I think there's about 30, 31, 32 names on that band list. I'll give you one example. This is a fun one. Cause I actually ended up getting a little bit of petty revenge on this one. So Martin will have authors message us all the time. Hey, I'd love to come on and talk about my book. And I think my show is probably like, between six months and a year old at that point. I had this, this author, I'll even name him. His name was Arjun Ardagh. Okay. And he wrote a book about something to do with consciousness and everything.

21:21 And I always do a pre-interview phone call before the show. And I couldn't get ahold of him, could not get ahold of him. And about 35 minutes beforehand, this before I was on terrestrial radio, about 35 minutes before the show, finally get ahold of him. And he goes, have you read my book? I said, no, you didn't send me a copy. And I said, but I'm very prepared with notes.

21:44 I got a lot of questions. He goes, that's not going to matter because you haven't read my book.

21:49 I had that happen. I had that happen.

21:51 And finally I, he goes, I don't even know if I want to do the show. And I said, look, I'm a professional journalist. I am somebody who could make horse crap into a good salad. OK, we're going to have a great time. You're going to be impressed. It's going to be the best interview you've ever done. Everything I tell people to calm their nerves. No, I just don't see this going on. And we went like this for about 10 minutes where finally I said, you know what?

22:19 I said, I don't want to do the interview. He goes, no, I'll do it. It's just going to be a waste of time. I'll do it. I said, no, I don't want to do the interview. We're just going to end this. I'm not going to waste my time. I'm going to let my audience know there's no show tonight. And basically told him to go to hell. And about four years later, I get a message from a publicist saying, interview opportunity.

22:49 We would love, I've listened to Spaced Out Radio. We would love to have one of our premier authors that we publish their books. His name is Arjun Ardagh. And we would love to have you have him on the show. We think he'd be a great fit for your style. And I, oh, my fingers were clasping like this. And I was just like, here it comes. Just let it flow.

23:17 And I let it flow on an email. And I was very professional about it. And I said, you know what? I will never interview this person again. In fact, you should get to know your client. He didn't treat me very well. And I want to say what I really said, but I don't want slander or anything like that.

23:41 I think we have him in the chat right now. What's his name again?

23:45 I think it was Arjun Ardog.

23:47 Oh, okay. That's not him.

23:49 No, that's Ozzy Ange. Okay.

23:52 Yeah. All right.

23:54 So that was one of them. But I will also say this. Out of everybody that I have interviewed over the years, the people that have been the biggest pains of my butt have been paranormal people. It's true. It's paranormal people. And it doesn't matter whether they're a small, rinky-dink paranormal team in Massachusetts or a giant team on the West Coast or whatever it may be. It is just something that I've found that They are the most difficult to deal with, and that's why if you look at my show records over the last eight years, about eight years, nine years, you'll see very few paranormal shows compared to cryptids, compared to Bigfoot, compared to everything. I also find that there's a lot of charlatans in the

24:49 conspiracy theory group because in order to prove their point, they immediately have to bring up adrenochrome the the they kind of go down that that david ike road where in order to answer something say about chemtrails they got to go into four or five different conspiracies at once kind of like the flat earthers do and i just find it repugnant a little bit and i try and stay away from it because i just don't have time to battle one conspiracy with the next.

25:23 Yeah oh that's pretty funny When you have had your, let's just switch gears a little bit, if we can here. Sure. And I was just trying to think I had something related. Oh, yes. I'll just tell this really quickly because I tried forever to get Jerome Clark on. He's such a great researcher. I think the world of Jerome Clark. We were all ready to go. And he said to me, did you read my book? Any of my books? And I said, nope.

25:50 And he said, all right, I can't do it. And that was it. I was so disappointed. And I said, I'll read your book. I'll read your book.

26:00 No way.

26:00 But anyway.

26:01 No way. May I sound like a jerk here for a second? You don't mind? I may turn a few people off here. And I do apologize. It's not my point. Okay. Here's my theory on authors. You do great work. You do great research. I want to talk to you about it. But I can't have a two-hour interview about every time I ask a question or my audience member asks a question, it's you have to buy my book.

26:35 You have to read it in the book.

26:37 I am not a two-hour infomercial for you. And I have taken heat over that, but I've got way more applause for my audience and people than I have taken the heat. And I really wish... I'm trying to write, I've been trying to write my book for seven years. Okay. I just don't have the time to finish it, but I wouldn't expect anybody to interview me and say, tell me about your book. Tell me about your book. I'd love to talk to you about my book, but you know what? I'm going to give you what's in my book.

27:10 Cause that's going to make me want to buy it or somebody want to buy it rather than say, Oh, I can't tell you that you got to buy my book. Yeah.

27:17 People are really turned off. I get a lot of messages about that. People get really turned off about that.

27:23 So we actually came up with a plan when my booking coordinator filthy, when he is reaching out to guests or we have publishers who will reach out, we tell them point blank, we will mention your book. We will get into it a little bit. Okay. But your book is not the focus. It's you as the human being, the research that you did, why this is impassioning you to do everything that you're doing. That's what we'll get into.

27:52 Will we mention your book? Hell, I'll mention your book coming out of every break and going into every break. I'll even talk about it for 10, 15 minutes. But if it's going to be a two-hour infomercial of you got to buy my book, I can't do that to my audience. It's frustrating.

28:08 No, I totally get it. Let's see. I just want to let you know people are posting some questions. And I remember that we talked about this last time. I don't know if you want to get into this a little bit, but this comes up when you're on. And it's, can you enlighten us? Lighten the Masses on Flight 21 site, which I know that you've gone to. And I do believe when I spoke to you, I don't know, maybe several months ago, you were saying you were going out there again or something, right? Did you go?

28:37 We go out there every week or every second week. So just a quick history lesson of Flight 21. We have to go in there hard, Martin, because, oh, where did you go?

28:51 No, I'm here. I'm just letting people see you get into it.

28:55 Yeah. All right. We have to go into Flight 21 hard because unlike a lot of places in the United States, we have a timeline. Because of snow, we can't get in there until the snow melts late April, early May. I think we started going in there the first week of April this year. That's because we had such a light snowfall. The year before, we couldn't get into it until around May 21st and... it's in a difficult area to get to and you have to go into a gully in order to, it's about from my, from where I am right now, it's about 35 miles away. And that's just to get to the goat trail, to go into a gully that you have to drive out of the gully and up this, steep embankment in order to get to the crash site so on July 8th 1965

29:47 a Canadian Pacific Airways which is now a defunct airline was flying a DC-6 taking off in Vancouver and was doing a milk run north stopping in Kamloops or Prince George, and then it was going to stop north of that and then make its way up to the White House, White Horse, White Horse, Yukon. And there was a bomb on board that plane inside either a briefcase or a suitcase that was put in the bathroom stall at the back end of the plane. And about 25 miles outside of my southeast of my town, southwest, pardon me, the plane blew up. And it killed 52 people on board.

30:32 There were 52 souls lost. And some of the crash debris is still out there. And yeah, that cockpit section that you're seeing right behind the propeller is actually still out there. And in 2018, we did what may have been the first paranormal investigation out there. And my buddy Merle, who was with me, and our armed guard mark, and people will laugh. What do you need an armed guard for?

31:02 This area is in a very dense forest area where there's grizzly bears, there's black bears, there's moose, there are wild horses, wolf packs. Let's see, what else is there? There's mountain lions, there's lynx. There's a lot of animals in the area that could hurt you. And in 2018, after about 90 minutes of investigating, we actually had a Sasquatch encounter that pushed us out of the forest. And this was about two, three o'clock in the afternoon. And that really set things off for what was going to come.

31:39 And in 2023, we brought a television crew, an independent film crew up there to film and investigate. And Tim Senor, who is a former guest of yours, it messed them up. We've had everything there from sasquatch encounters to a to try to be lured into the forest by this voice that could have been a skinwalker or a wendigo we have a lot of paranormal activity we've had ufo activity including a landing and aliens walking through the trees it's pretty damn scary out there and the one thing about the phenomena out there that makes it even more interesting is if the phenomena doesn't want you there it's not going to react It's the weirdest thing. And the other thing that's weird about it is there's, it's almost like

32:29 there's this dome over top of the crash site where normally when you're in the forest, the rule of thumb is if everything goes silent, that's where you start to worry. Okay. Because there's usually something big lurking in the trees. However, at flight 21, it's completely opposite. Lake 21 is always silent, except when something big is around. Then the squirrels will go off, the ravens will go off, the chipmunks will go off, nature's security alarms. So it's very interesting to see how that kind of portrays itself in such a difference than what you're used to for usual forest safety etiquette. Martin, if you ever get your butt up here, I'm going to take you out there, going to scare the hell out of you Okay. And nobody's jumping out to say boo,

33:27 but put it this way. We had a little event about a month ago called CaribouCon up here. We put on our own paranormal conference here to help raise money for our local museum. And I brought some of the guests up there, including a guy you should get on your show. Christian McLeod is his name. He's called cryptedguy.com.

33:46 Or if you're Canadian, it's cryptedgee.com. And within two minutes of him exiting the vehicle, he was already finding footprints. Every time we go up there, there's footprints there. I think this year I've been up there probably, I'm going to say 12 to 15 times, maybe 16 times over the last number of months, maybe more. And I think there's only been like two times we haven't found footprints.

34:17 And go there just because the area is really strange.

34:23 It is the weirdest feeling place I would ever take you to Brandon Fugle at Skinwalker Ranch about this location. And he's asked me to keep him up to date on what's going on. Now, I will say this for transparency. Last year was way more aggressive and we got a lot more. a lot more happening than we did this year.

34:46 This year, they seemed a lot more docile, but I had to change my team up. And in talking to many Sasquatch people, they think that's the reason why this year slowed down was because there were different people there. And the one thing that I have learned about Sasquatch is they are very skittish creatures. They don't like change.

35:08 When I go there, I park in the same spot. I try and wear the same jacket, pants, it all depends on what's clean in my house. I wear the same ball cap. I hold up my Martin Willis picture that said, what would Martin do? And I flashed them around to him. No, I'm teasing on that, but we try to do everything the same. We set up our camp in the same place. Our lawn chairs are in the same place, everything the same for continuity, because that's what apparently Sasquatch likes it and trying to ease that tension.

35:39 But it's a weird place. And that's not even including the crash site. One of the rules that we have when we're out there is we don't investigate the crash site. That is in my, I know a lot of paranormal investigators may not like what I say, but to me, it's sacrilegious to go in there trying to get the ghosts to riled up. If the ghosts want to speak, they can come out to our base camp. It's only about a 60 foot walk.

36:06 Okay.

36:08 They can come out and join us. And the other thing, too, that we're very cognizant of is this is still an open investigation. This case is still open by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. And do I think we'll ever find out what happened? No, no, I don't. We're already 61 years in since the crash. They haven't found out. They got four suspects. All four of them are dead.

36:34 Yeah.

36:35 Okay, but they haven't figured out who did it. And I'm not there to investigate the crash site and the mystery of that. I'm interested in, I look at it as a cause and effect. The crash site was the cause, but the effect is all of this cryptid paranormal supernatural happening around it. And why is it happening? We've brought people up there where if, as weird as this may sound, if the phenomena hasn't cleared them, the phenomena is not going to perform. And then if you get around people that the phenomena has cleared, oh, my God, it is like a circus out there.

37:15 Wow.

37:16 And if you've never been surrounded by Sasquatch before, let me tell you, it's one of the most awesome yet scary things you've ever had happen. What?

37:27 But you never actually see them, right?

37:30 We got one photo. I had a potential sighting this year. Christian McLeod and his wife, Christina, had a sighting probably within 20 feet. And it walked right in between my Jeep and my friend's Jeep. Walked right in between. And the next day when we went out there, there were 18-inch tracks. Wow.

38:00 So tell me, what's it like you're saying there's nothing like having them around you? What's that like? First of all, is there an odor, the skunk odor people talk about?

38:11 No, we never get that. We never get the skunk odor. And to be honest with you, this past weekend was the fourth anniversary of my last sighting. And I've never had the skunk smell. Now, we did have a... Now, that's not true. Let me rewind that a second. There's one area where it smells skunky at times. We don't have skunks in our forest up here. It's too cold for them. And so with that skunk smell comes out, like anybody who's had a skunk run under their house or around their yard, you smell that and you can smell it everywhere. This type of skunk smell, it's almost like they've laid like a spray or a urine track on the ground. Now we haven't smelled it in months.

39:05 Last year, we smelled it quite frequently. but it was never emanating from the bush. And here's the other thing that was happening, was that the smell would disappear. You could move 10 feet, 15 feet from that smell and not smell it. You walk back into that area, there's the smell again. So it was very weird. But as for us, say, standing by our gifting site that we have, or by our tree knocking site or whatever it might be, we really haven't had that experience where all of a sudden the wafting smell. Now, one of the weird things we have happened is probably about 35, 40 yards from our gifting tree. there is a meadow. And in that meadow, there is a tree structure. And you can walk into that meadow, and you feel just fine. And all of

40:02 a sudden, you step into that meadow, and it's like there's no oxygen. There's no oxygen there at all. You're surrounded by trees. You're in nature. There should be oxygen everywhere. And you feel out of breath like you are gasping for air. I've had that happen twice up there now. It's a weird feeling. And yet you step out of the meadow, you're breathing fine. Just like you and I are breathing right now. I don't understand how that happens.

40:30 And I'm not scientific enough. And I do want to say this just for clarity. I am not a researcher. I don't know how to research. If it's a journalistic story, I know how to research that. But for paranormal, supernatural, cryptids. I don't know how to research. I'm an enthusiast. That's all I am. I've taken the knowledge that I've learned from my show and what I've had the pleasure of talking to other Bigfoot people. And I've taken all that knowledge and I've let it sink in, but to actually be able to say, this is how dumb we are out there sometimes. And we take it seriously, but we're not researchers. We're enthusiasts. My buddy, Brian, former Canadian armed forces soldier, He walks up and we find about a

41:20 nine inch, 10 inch track. And so Brian, not even thinking, he goes, let me measure that with my boot. And he steps right into the track. We got this on film. And I said, Brian, thanks for ruining that track. And he's like, oh crap. I just did that, didn't I?

41:42 And we're like, yeah, you did.

41:45 And we just started laughing. There's researchers out there that would absolutely blow a gasket over that. We're just out there. Oh my God, that's absolutely hilarious. That just happened. So we're having fun. We take it seriously. We go in armed because of the danger of the predatory animals in the area. Thankfully, we've never had to fire a shot.

42:08 I've only had to cock my shotgun pointy stick twice when I've been there. And I think they like us up there. And that's why we keep going back. We've traded items. They've stolen items. And there's that damn squirrel that keeps stealing my stuff. But we've had trail cameras played with. We've had everything kind of played with. And it's absolutely amazing.

42:36 Really interesting. I'm going to put up some of the questions in here just because I don't want the show to go by. And we have a lot of great people in chat. And thank you all for being here. And Christopher is one of them. Some of U.S. civilians in chat and elsewhere have had experiences with an H.I.

42:54 and U.S. military cooperating as early as 1953. For me, what would you say is the value of our perspective, our perspectives versus government disclosure?

43:09 I think there are a number of people who are trying to get the experiential crowd involved in this conversation. Martin, there was that big kind of get-together in Washington, D.C., where they did a roundtable, and there was one politician there. I forget the name of the guy, but he literally said, why are we not talking to people who've had these happenings?

43:35 They may know more than what the U.S. government is giving us.

43:39 Yes, I was there at that time. And I'm trying to think who that was.

43:44 It wasn't McConnell.

43:45 I'll ask my, Oh, it might've been McConnell.

43:48 Was it Mitch McConnell?

43:49 Not, no, not, but yeah, Mitch McConnell, maybe. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to ask my producer if she remembers.

43:56 And I literally was like, finally, somebody is saying it. Finally, somebody is saying it because like I said earlier in the show, I'm not a big fan of what the whistleblower testimony has been. I'm more of a fan of what people's experiences have been. And I think there will come a time down the road where, especially those who have been hit with the experiential crowd, where they can, this has gone through generation to generation. I think those people have answers. I think people have a lot more answers than the scientists and the government officials give them credit for. But let's also remember this. Okay, people like Lou Elizondo, people like Jay Stratton and other David Grush and others. If you listen to them, they don't say

44:45 it often, but they've all had experiences. And I remember talking to one insider who said, the people who look into this program are all experiencers. That's why they don't need to call on experiencers. Is that true? Was I being fed something? I can't answer that. What I can't answer is what was said to me. And I think that eventually people will get their just desserts. Experiencers will get their just desserts. It's just not in the near future.

45:18 I hope that answers your question.

45:21 Thank you. Here's one from dispatch here. What do you think the biggest story that you did on your show and in your opinion, why is it the top show?

45:34 There was a couple. There was a time I asked Lou Elizondo, this clip kind of went viral. In 2021, when I interviewed Lou Elizondo, I asked him if he had seen aliens. And he roundaboutly answered the question saying that he had seen some strange things. But nobody had ever asked him that question before at that point. There was the, oh, scientist, scientist Rich Hoffman. Yes. Where basically him and I got a little heated. And he basically said on the show for experiencers to get the hell out of the way. I want the scientists and the military do their work. Whoa. That was kind of cool.

46:18 That one was a very important one. I would say though, that my favorite shows that I do are people who have had firsthand encounters where they're not looking for fame. They're not looking for glory. They're just looking for somebody to hear their story. and those would be my favorite shows. It doesn't matter whether it's UFOs or Bigfoot or Dogman or near-death experiences. I like the ones where you get away from the research, you get away from the politics, and those would be probably my most important shows that I've done.

46:55 I agree. I often talk about one of my favorite encounters, and he's never been on anyone else's show, and He reached out to me after I put out there, hey, if you've had an unusual encounter, get a hold of me. His name is Albert Wayne. And that, if anyone would like to check that out, it's right on my YouTube channel.

47:14 Just type in Albert Wayne, W-A-I-N. And what a story. Just know what an encounter he had. And I love those stories too, a lot. I think they really are great hearing them. When you don't hear them often and then someone basically tells you, I think that's great. Here's another one from Christopher. Dave, do you think the presence of such cryptid and ghost activity is related to the hitchhiker effect?

47:39 Yes. Yes, I do. As somebody who has been attacked by spirits on more than one occasion through the haunted 108 company that I own, does paranormal tours, I would say that all of them know their power. And they can come home with you at any time, any place. And I don't like it when it happens.

48:03 I don't.

48:05 Now, do you try and take preventative measures? Sure you do. But I'm not a big proponent of having it happen. That's for sure.

48:16 Can you give an example of something that?

48:19 Sure. Sure. This just happened to me two weeks ago. If you go up on, let me, where I do my tour is called O'Hare. 108 mile heritage site. And we in our barn have a ghost up there that is just absolutely terrifying. And this ghost, Martin, I put a picture up. This ghost was first seen in 2011 or in 2017. He's walking up a stairway. And once he found out that he had been photographed, he started attacking us. And one of the deals that I had to make with him to stop attacking people was I had to bring him a bottle of whiskey. I had to.

49:10 So he's got a bottle of fireball. He's got a shot glass and he's got cigarettes. And nobody is allowed to photograph or film his catwalk. He doesn't like photography. He doesn't want filming and nobody to walk on his catwalk unless he gives permission. And a couple of weeks ago, we had some people up there who snuck up there without permission and And I went up there immediately once I found out. The next time we were doing a ghost tour, I found out. And I went up to him and I went, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have let that happen. This is my fault. I apologize. And the next thing I knew, my head was being squeezed tighter and tighter to the point where it was making me ill.

49:57 And I actually had to have one of my tour guides drive me home because I got very ill because of what he was doing. And I know that he was just doing that at probably 20, 30%, just enough to make sure that I got the message that you don't break the rules. And I got the message.

50:21 Sounds like you did.

50:23 Wow.

50:24 All right. Here's a, another question from Paramarv. What is the straw that breaks the back of the UFO coverup and will finally be make disclosure undeniable. What's your opinion on that?

50:37 Roswell. It all comes down to Roswell. I think anything outside of Roswell is a non-starting point unless it would be, say, something like the Phoenix Lights. And that's only because the Phoenix Lights are, what, they're coming up 30 years old. It was 29 years ago. It'll be 30 years next year. But I think if they let loose on Roswell... and they say we have confirmed that it was a UFO, that there were bodies taken, and they provide some sort of information, that's the straw. I think it all comes back to Roswell. I don't know how you feel about that, Martin, but I'd like to know your opinion.

51:19 I do think Roswell, I always, when I come up to people that say, oh, that was just the mogul or crash dummies, when they have all the million stories that they say, you know, the Russians, mogul and all that type of thing. I always come back with why on earth would the Army Air Force say that they captured a disc and have it out in the paper?

51:40 Why would that? What would be the reasoning behind that? And I never can really get a good answer to that. I do think there's really something to that. As far as the Phoenix Lights, I just want to get this out there that I am having a special show this year coming March on the 30th. And I do have a couple of witnesses that have agreed to be on and One of them is Tom King, who everyone knows.

52:04 Love Tom King. Great guy. And there's going to be another one as well. But just getting that out there. Because I think that I've had Marcia, is it Barnett, I believe. I'm trying to remember who received all the phone calls. Like 900 phone calls. I think it's Marcia Barnett, but I'm not positive. But anyway, I had her on.

52:24 And I think that is one of the top cases right up there. The witnesses and all that. The thing with Roswell is there's so many twists and turns, and there's a lot of stuff added to it along the way. They have the big thing every year, and some of it feels like fantasy. It's really hard to figure it all out. But the fact that, as Stanton Friedman used to say, the government changed their story, was it five or six times, on Roswell. Just that alone makes you realize there's something there. In my opinion.

53:03 I would agree with you on that. I would agree. And that's why I think Roswell is such a, an important truth because it can end a lot of the speculation. Even Stanton Friedman, we love, love Stanton Friedman. God bless him. He was convinced that there were two crashes that day, San Augustine one and Roswell. And he believes those two craft collided and then went down in separate areas.

53:25 That's right.

53:26 And so that in my disclosure ball, needs to be fulfilled.

53:33 There's a story about the geology team, and I don't know, there's a lot of controversy on that. The college geology team was out there supposedly, and I don't know if that was.

53:44 The Andersons were out there. The Anderson family was out there. Gerald Anderson, who was five, I interviewed Gerald a number of years ago. He was five years old, and he remembers touching one of the beings that was still alive, because they were about his size. So we go on that. Somebody knows the answer. And it's in that UFO Pandora's box buried underneath the Pentagon.

54:13 Well, we're about ready to wrap it up here, but it's, we both have, I was thinking about this today. We both had a lot of radio and guest experiences right now. I'm up to, I think it's 792 episodes, something pushing 800 episodes. And you've had thousands of them because you're on five days a week. And so I just... What do we really know at this point? I feel... I've said this a couple of times. Sometimes I feel like I know less than when I started. I'm kind of being a little sarcastic. But sometimes I feel as though the harder you look at this, the more questions come up instead. And I just wondered, do you feel the same way? Or how do you feel about that?

54:57 Yeah, I would say... There are times, and it's funny, I talk to Nicole Sackage every now and then. She's one of my best friends. If you've never had Nicole on your show, Mark, you should.

55:06 Oh, I'd love to.

55:08 Yeah. She, her and I will often say that it's getting so confusing. It's getting to the point where you just don't care because you can't bring it all in. And then when you add in the drama of, and I stay away from the drama on X, but when you add that into the storytelling and the negativity of You just get a bad taste in your mouth and really all you want is answers. So you have a bunch of people who don't want to be a part of the UFO community, but they want to be the face of the UFO community. And you have a bunch of people telling stories. You have bad tranches. I think we're being in this emotional tug of war with UFOs and UAP stronger than it's ever been before. And both sides are pulling equally. And it's the public, it's the

55:55 people who just want answers. Never mind the people of curiosity, but the people who have seen the UFOs, people who claim they've been taken, abducted, had contact, had close encounters. People who have real effects are the ones who are losing in all of this, as they always do.

56:17 I want to bring this up just because my Better Half producer, Donna, brings this up a lot. And I just wanted to get your opinion on it. It's like, where is the mainstream media? You know, I mean, you have News Nation, you have Fox News, you may have one or two that touch a little bit, but it seems like there's so much out there. And I talked, I met up with my cousins. I haven't sat with them.

56:41 I don't know if I've ever really sat with my cousins, these particular ones just a couple of weeks ago. And I said, Hey, you know, I do a show on UFOs and Is anybody into the topic? Has anybody seen what's going on? They had no idea. And I don't know who to blame that on, or it's just not in their scope of what they look at on a daily basis.

57:04 I think it's a two-point answer to that. Number one, more people more than ever are tuning out of mainstream news. That's why if you look at media outlets, you're seeing literally hundreds of jobs each month being lost in the, in a beautiful medium. Number two, you have people who run newsrooms and it doesn't matter what the medium is.

57:31 You have people who run newsrooms who still have that old school thinking that if I go down this road, I'm going to be fired. The average news director lasts five years on the job before moving on because it is a dog eat dog world in the news world. Some people want more infotainment. Others want hardcore news. Some people still believe in going to councils, city council meetings.

57:57 Other people believe it's all about feelings now. Let's get what we call the business streeters, where we run a microphone into strangers on the street and say, how do you feel about this controversy here? Like their opinion means something, which it doesn't, right? So, When you have news directors who still look at this as a fringe topic, and you have people who are tooting out on mainstream media quicker than ever in the history, which I think is a dangerous thing, because whether you like the media or not, we need the media. But the problem is media has become politically biased. So when you take that into consideration, that's why we're not seeing it on a lot of news networks. Now, I will say this. News Nation, Fox News,

58:47 if you look at their ratings, and they will admit this, when they talk UFOs, there is a major rating spike that happens.

58:56 And so why is everyone else so afraid to talk about it? That's the bizarre, like you said, I guess they're afraid for their jobs, right?

59:04 It's about their jobs. And number two, quickly here, most reporters are afraid to ask about the question because they don't know how to answer or get the answer. They don't know what to ask. They're sheepish about asking the UFO question because they think their ego is going to take a hit. Just ask the question. You're a journalist.

59:26 That's your job. Just ask the question. Not laugh and snicker. Ask the question.

59:32 Dave, why don't you throw out all of how people can watch your Spaced Out Radio and all that and where they'd find you and your website and all that stuff. Absolutely.

59:42 SpacedOutRadio.com is the website, YouTube channel, Spaced Out Radio. We're on all major social media outlets, TikTok, Instagram. Don't worry, our Instagram doesn't have my face for radio on it, so that's a good thing. You can also download us On any major podcast network, including Spotify, iHeartRadio, iTunes, Google Play, Deezer, everything else.

1:00:05 Very good. Excellent. Dave, it's always fun talking to you. Thank you so much.

1:00:09 Thank you, my friend. All right.

1:00:11 Take care now. All right, everyone. So just a couple of things. Don't forget to check out, if you haven't watched it yet, The Allagash. That was just a couple of days ago. It just came out. It's a really great one, I think. And last week's Lou Elizondo interview. is up well over 100,000 views on YouTube, so that is doing really well if you haven't checked that out as well. And next week, next Tuesday, we have Ron James, and that's at 8 p.m. on Tuesday. And I really appreciate everyone being here. Thank you so much, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.