793. Ron James

0:20 Hello, everyone. Welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host. And it looks like here he is. We were thinking it was a no-show for the guest. I'm going to bring in Jack, since you were so good to come in as a villain. But thank you for being here, Jack. So, Jack, since you're here, you might as well join us.

0:39 Sure.

0:40 Absolutely.

0:40 Let's do it. Okay. All right.

0:42 I'll be bringing you back in. Thank you.

0:45 All right.

0:45 So just to let everyone know here, Ron just left. joined us just a second, so we're a little bit of panic here. So Ron James, he's a filmmaker, researcher, media relations director, and Ron is the creator of The Accidental Truth. It's a documentary series. I've watched them. They're very good. Next is Beyond UFO Disclosure, and he has new developments he wants to talk about. Before I bring Ron in, I just wanted to dedicate this show to to a close friend who just recently passed away, someone that I've been in touch with for a long time, since the beginning of the time when he started going on shows and talking about, I believe I might have been the first or second person to interview him in the podcast realm. Here I am last year with Mario Woods,

1:40 and unfortunately he passed away just a couple of days ago, and I want to dedicate this show to this great man. He was really an excellent person, He really was a heartfelt person. And I have to tell you, my experience with him is when I would have a conversation, we'd have a conversation on the phone or whatever. By the time that I said goodbye to him, he was always like upbeat, trying to make the whole situation, whatever it was going on. He was a very upbeat person and he will really be missed. I reached out to him recently and didn't hear back. And now I know why.

2:15 And unfortunately, he passed. Here is his obituary. I have that down in the show notes as well as in the notes in YouTube. Now I heard from his daughter and she said that she's really loving that people are posting memories and comments. So if you have something nice that you'd like to say about your memory of Mario, even if it's just being on someone else's show or whatever, please feel free to leave a message. She actually said that she's going to make some type of artwork. So I'm not really sure what that is, but she's going to make some artwork with all the messages that people are leaving for her dad, who she was right there by his side when he passed. A very unfortunate thing that just happened a couple of days ago. Just a

3:00 couple of things. This Thursday at 8 p.m., we'll be talking with Indy Peterson, and he had some really unusual orb encounters. My friend Jack, who will be joining us tonight, but he had something unusual. change like right in front of him, like it morphed into something else really very strange. Next Tuesday, we have the one and only Brad Olson joining us. And so be sure to stop by podcastufo.com and check out this week's blog by UFO history buff Charles Lear. He's an author as well. This week, he writes about the Iranian jet fighters chase a UFO back in 1976. I was lucky enough to actually interview one of the pilots, retired General Jafari, when he was in North Carolina at a convention in 2013, where I met

3:51 all kinds of people there. Randy Nickerson, I met there for the first time, and a bunch of other people as well. Finally, a big thank you to everyone who has... What happened? Okay, I'm not sure what just happened there. Hopefully you just heard what I was saying. But anyway, I want to thank everyone that supports the show, everyone that watches the show, listens to the show. And that's enough of me. I'm going to bring in my guest.

4:24 Having a little bit of technical problems here. Okay, here we go. I'm not sure what's happening. But anyway, here we are. People used to tune in to my shows just to watch the technical troubles. When I was going live for the first time, because I had all this OBS software, I always had issues. So people used to call it entertaining my run. Very nice to see you.

4:50 Glad you made it. Welcome to the show.

4:53 Thank you, Martin.

4:54 It's always a pleasure to be on your show. And yeah, look, I am knee deep in technical stuff. I own MUFON television and it's a website with over a thousand pieces of content, subscribers and membership stuff. And it's when One little thing goes wrong, it cascades, and then pretty soon you're spending more time on the phone fixing things than you are trying to make movies.

5:17 Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So how you been and what's up and coming? I know that you've been involved in this for such a long time. You've been in Washington. I've actually seen you there a couple of times. What's going on? What do you think's happening?

5:31 The dog and pony show of Fake Disclosure continues. The battle inside the mysterious realm of people who actually know what's going on continues and manifests in what we see in the press. The real disclosure is unfolding without a political process. And that's the good thing. It's like the experiencer phenomenon and different contact modalities are becoming undeniable. And I think people are pretty much figuring out that what we're getting through the official pipelines is convoluted at best.

6:08 So I'm working on accidental truth. Next made number one in documentaries worldwide. It is about to go. It's going to be free. People can watch it on Tubi. I think it's on Tubi for free right now. And pretty soon it's going to be on YouTube movies and TV and people can watch it for free there. So both of my accidental truth movies are going to be free for everybody to watch. If not now, very soon.

6:31 Excellent. Now I just had a talk with my producer, Donna, who you know, and Jack, you know, as well. And before the show, and she was just saying she feels like there's something above everyone that is controlling these things. And I have to agree. It feels like that. A lot of times when I say above, above the presidential level.

6:51 Oh, there's the humans there. And Jack, let me know if you agree with me. There's the humans there, but there's also the fact that if we really are dealing with superior intelligence, with superior technology. It would be foolish to assume that they don't have a say in what we're going to be told. So, yeah, there's a bunch of shadow folks whose names we will never know that are the interface with whatever other intelligences at play and who's controlling the ultimate process is probably not human beings.

7:22 Yeah, I think that's a really good point, Ron.

7:24 I really appreciate the way you phrased a couple of your responses so far on the stream here. I appreciate your candor, just calling it what it is in a very non-emotional state, which is good just to describe the current landscape that we're in. But it certainly is an exciting time.

7:40 It's an exciting time, and it's also a very frustrating time because of just the things that we mentioned. And the hardest thing, I think, Jack and Martin, has been watching people that I've known for a long time, changed their tune in order to fit the narrative. People I would never expect to do that. But stems from what happens to these guys. Let's look at these members of Congress.

8:05 In the very beginning of this, back in 2017, when Lou came forward, and when Jim Berkowitz was coming out, I'm going to get to the bottom of this all, and blessed him. He's my friend, and I'm not criticizing him in any way, but his dialogue has gone from, We're going to get to the bottom of this, too.

8:21 If you knew what I knew, you'd stay awake at night. So the people that promised to deliver the secrets are now keeping the secrets. And this is cascading throughout almost every office in Congress, as well as.

8:33 Most of our journalists.

8:35 If I see one more journalist on TV say, my sources told me this and I can't tell you, I'm just like, guys, you've become part.

8:43 Of the problem.

8:43 Who is going to be our hero and just run to the public like they did in Disclosure Day?

8:49 We need that.

8:50 We need catastrophic disclosure by somebody who understands how important this is.

8:55 Yeah.

8:55 Wow.

8:56 I like this guy, Martin.

8:57 Listen, yeah, Jack, I'm going to have you take the lead here for a minute because I'm having technical trouble and I'm going to have to reboot my computer and I'll be back.

9:07 Okay.

9:08 Good luck.

9:09 All right. Thank you.

9:12 Yeah, Ron, I think you're just calling it all out. I totally agree with you. I don't really find too much. It's kind of a mixed bag. But overall, would you say, Ron, despite all that, even the journalists that are currently changing tune, and if you're not releasing any of the information, you make the argument, you're part of the problem, which I feel like I tend to lean towards that argument as well.

9:34 But would you say overall, we are trending, we are better today than we were 10 years ago in terms of getting more eyes on the subject. Would you say that's overall a good thing? Or would you say the eyes are looking in the wrong place today than they were 10 years ago, even though it's far less eyeballs on the topic?

9:52 Jack, the truth of.

9:53 The matter is that if you really want to see what's going on, you don't look back 10 years, you look back 75 years. And we had a period of time in the late 40s, and in my first Accidental Truth movie, we point this out, but that movie has become more and more relevant over time, not less. We had the same thing, the exact same thing. We had the military coming forward saying there's technology in the skies, it's not ours.

10:15 We had books being published. We had movies being made. This is the era that gave us Chariots of the Gods and all of the greats and the hundreds of books.

10:22 That's when MUFON started. This whole thing has happened before. So now this new fervor in UFOs and UAP and trying to understand it and government transparency and everything else, it's really nothing more than a repeat performance of something we've already seen. At the end of the day, it just fizzled out the last time. And it looks like these guys are going to drag out. They haven't given us anything. The stuff that the Pentagon has released has been, half of that stuff was already in the public domain.

10:50 Everybody's talking about these dirts, the defense intelligence documents. In Accidental Truth Next, we talked about all of them. We showed every single one of them and we talked about the technology. Michio Kaku talked about how feasible it was. We put that stuff out years ago. And so there's nothing new about that. And if you know the history of this and you know the players of the past, it's easy to understand that we're just being played one more time.

11:15 Yeah.

11:17 I'm a little bit speechless because everything you just said, not speechless, but I'm having trouble finding words here because that's, again, I'm just going to keep repeating myself.

11:26 That's spot on.

11:27 I have these same thoughts that you so eloquently put together and were able to communicate far better than what I probably could.

11:35 And having that been.

11:36 Said, it does seem, when you look at the, have you seen that clip on X or Twitter of Kehoe, Major Kehoe, United States Air Force? And like, you see these old clips, Ron, from way back.

11:47 Yeah, he's in my movie.

11:48 Don Kehoe was one of, he was like a modern day Lou Elizondo. Only Don Kehoe actually really did come forward trying to blow the whistle instead of just pretending to be a whistleblower. Don Kehoe, military background, wrote books, stated equivocably right on the same stage as General Sanford that, yes, we have these things. Yes, there's crash retrievals. And what was then new programs are now legacy programs. And my next movie is taking a deep dive into what those are and who uncovered them. But yeah, it's like Don Keogh is a major player. General Sanford was a major player.

12:22 Leonard Stringfield was a major player. These people that have been forgotten by the modern podcasters who don't seem to have a lot of respect for their elders.

12:32 Or history and knowledge of their elders.

12:36 Have been, they're all acting like this is all new and it's not. And it's very hard to watch.

12:42 Yeah, when I see those old clips online, Ron, to speak to, to add to what you're saying here and the argument that you make, which I find there's some validity there, is that the clips, like it, my stomach just sank when I watched some of those, especially with the Kehoe clips. They are literally, Ron, saying the same things, the same conversations. We're still having them in 2026. It's like heartbreaking in.

13:05 A weird way.

13:06 Yeah.

13:08 That the 2017 rollout of Elizondo and to the Stars Academy and everything else was a contrived version of what was going to be a controlled disclosure process before it imploded. To the Stars Academy imploded for a variety of reasons, but the fact of the matter is that it was organized and rehearsed and guided. And the same things happened before.

13:33 And the fact that it's evolved into what it is, I point out in Accidental Truth Next, we're a decade in now almost since Lou Elizondo came forward on television.

13:43 And what do we have that's definitive and concrete? We have nothing.

13:46 We have more government people that are contradicting each other. David Grush is, in my opinion, Grush, Elizondo, even Jake Barber, these guys, they don't pass my whistleblower litmus test. And that is, if you have to get what you are going to say publicly cleared by the Department of Defense before you can say it, You're.

14:06 Not a whistleblower. You're a tool.

14:08 And every one of these guys is exactly that. I don't see any of them taking any real serious risk to lay it all out. And now we have Jay Stratton, who's popped on the stage. Jay's been around for a long time.

14:19 I've met him. He's a spooky guy.

14:22 But again, he's just another one of these voices saying what he's allowed to say.

14:27 So it's just it's hard to watch.

14:30 And there's a lot of people that are swallowing it hook, line and sinker. And that's even harder to watch, especially when it cascades into the podcasters. And Jesse Michaels just interviewed this guy that used to run the Department of Energy. And this dude throughout the entire interview is lying through his teeth. Jesse asked him point blank about Roswell.

14:49 And the guy smirked. He goes, I'm.

14:50 Like, I'm sorry. I've got some follow-up questions to that. But he just let him slide. The Department of Energy is one of the places where Christopher Mellon states in Accidental Truth 1, that is able to run some of these programs and literally keep it away from congressional oversight. According to Chris Mellon, he couldn't even get to some Department of Energy programs.

15:12 And we know that the DOE is.

15:14 Involved in a lot of this reverse engineering, crash retrieval research and technology. And then when we had Bill Richardson, who used to be the governor of New Mexico, this guy stepped forward and said, I'm going to get to the bottom of Roswell. And he went on a campaign and he got taken into a room And I believe he was read in. And then he comes out of this room and says, people deserve to know the truth.

15:38 And a couple of years later, all of a sudden, he's running the Department of Energy. So it's pretty clear to me that he got read into Roswell. And once he did, he was a perfect candidate to take over one of the most secretive government operations anywhere. And so this Jesse Michaels interview with this guy about the Bryce Zabel sound light and frequency issue. This interview was totally softball.

15:59 The guy was completely lying through his teeth every time he was asked about something classified. Anybody who is who even an amateur at studying body language and facial expressions would know this.

16:10 But he got a pass.

16:12 And yeah, it's it's I would say it's amusing, except I've invested almost 20 years in trying to crack.

16:18 Yeah, I get that.

16:20 But it is it's it is amusing. And frankly, I think I'm just going to go become a grape farmer.

16:28 That was great. Michael, the recent interview, I'm having a little internet trouble. So hopefully this will, I don't understand how that could even be possible with what I have. But anyway.

16:40 I know.

16:41 So I did watch part of that. And I also was talking with Bryce and Brent about that whole situation quite a bit. And I believe, I definitely believe Brent over that guy. Totally.

16:55 For sure.

16:56 Yeah, I do too. The story Brent tells makes sense.

17:00 The history of the families makes sense. The idea that this guy is fresh into Washington, D.C. and read into a bunch of stuff and it's disturbing him and he decides to confide in a young man that he's got a long relationship with, it all makes sense. And the way this guy caged and answered these questions, if you really study his facial expressions and the way he would smirk and he looks away and he gives very short, curt answers to the stuff that anytime Jesse would approach something classified, His whole demeanor changes, and he responds in the way that he's instructed to respond. And the way you're instructed to respond is you say as little as possible, you lie, you deny. That is the standard code for

17:39 anybody that is in possession of classified information.

17:43 He's classically trained. You can totally tell.

17:46 He shows some arrogance, too.

17:48 Hey, by the way, Martin, you got Lou, man. Good catch, dude. Yeah, good catch, Martin.

17:55 I got him in 2017, and I'm still writing off that interview.

17:58 Nice.

17:59 Yeah, I'd like to get him again. Him and I text back and forth quite a lot, and I've had some things to say to him recently, including telling him that he needed to be the first guy to come out once Trump cleared the whistleblower path.

18:13 He's not going to do it.

18:15 Yeah.

18:16 Unfortunately, I'm having trouble. Luckily, it seems to be recording okay, but I'm hearing part of what you both are saying.

18:23 Okay, got you, Martin. This happens.

18:27 I literally have Starlink and business cable internet because every time I get on one of these things, they're messing with my internet. And I'd like to think I was paranoid, except it seems to only happen when I'm on a podcast.

18:40 That really creeps me out.

18:42 I've had something similar happen.

18:45 I don't know what your background is, but when I was making the first Accidental Truth movie, There were three times when I came home and stuff was moved around in my house. I was not convinced that movie was going to come out until the night of April, I think, 18th, when at midnight it popped up on Amazon. Until that exact moment, I was 50% thinking they were going to squash it. And the new Accidental Truth movie, they've done everything they can to keep people from seeing that one.

19:14 Do you have any, have you noticed Ron? I don't know what your experience is with YouTube and views, but sometimes I have an interview that I gave on a YouTube channel where the views get throttled. And I've tried to do some research to see if that's a normal thing where like half of the views will, 50% of the views just disappear the next day and it starts all over. But anyways, that's just a rabbit hole, but that's some pretty scary stuff for sure.

19:39 I mean, not really.

19:40 So when the accident, when the trailer for accidental truth next came out, Okay. In one week, it hit almost 40,000 views.

19:47 Nice. And then.

19:50 I tried to go ahead to buy the video boost that you can pay for videos to be bumped.

19:55 Yep. And Google turned me down and my views dropped to almost zero on this.

20:00 So you have experienced it.

20:02 Oh, I experience it all the time. I help run MUFON's YouTube channel. We just hit 100,000 subscribers.

20:08 But we can't seem to break a few thousand views, and we're putting out more content on one channel than practically anybody. So yes, I am pissing off a lot of the wrong people, which is one of the reasons I'm about to finish this and move on to some other topics. I've added what I can add to the conversation.

20:25 It's up to people to figure it out. My new movie is about Leonard Stringfield and the legacy programs, and I'm doing it with Michael Stratt. We've got 37 cases of crash debris that were found in Leonard Stringfield's files. And we have reenacted all of them by in complete state of the art AI animation. And it's just, it's an amazing film. It's probably one of my best ones.

20:48 So that's going to come out.

20:49 That's going to be really good. That's going to be good.

20:52 I'll be done at that point, I think. Okay. All right.

20:56 Let me ask you this, Ron, with everything that you've laid out here today on the stream. How do you approach your work and your research knowing that history has a way with this topic to repeat itself, so to speak, to put that lightly at a 50,000 foot overview? Does that change the way you do your work or your approach to this topic or film?

21:18 No, not at all. Because at the core of it all is that we're spiritual creatures having a human experience inside of a simulated reality and everything else is just decoration. At the end of the day, you've got to be up here. The getting down into the minutia of, oh, they're from Mars. No, they're from Venus. No, they're from here.

21:35 They're from there. No, dude, they're from everywhere. The whole nature of reality is not what we think it is. AI is a living, breathing force inside of our universe. And it is probably behind a lot of the things that we're seeing. And I just don't even I don't even dwell at street level. Wow.

21:53 Okay.

21:54 We are hitting heavy here. And by the way, chat, Martin just disappeared. I think he had to do another reboot, so he'll be back. So you're a big fan of the simulation hypothesis or just living inside of a computer, essentially?

22:06 Not so much that.

22:08 In the last part of Accidental Truth Next, we talk a lot about simulation theory.

22:12 Rizwan Virk is in there. Dr.

22:13 Gary Nolan talks about research that they're doing that is actually defining the pixel count of the simulation.

22:19 Yeah. It's not, yeah, like matrix, like we're living in a.

22:25 Computer, like we're in some kind of blob. But the facts are really simple. If consciousness is fundamental, what does that mean? And I did an experiment with some audience people one time. I said, how many people out here believe that consciousness is fundamental? And all the new agers and progressive thinkers raised their hands. And I said, how many of you agree that must mean we're living in a simulated reality? And none of them raised their hands hardly.

22:51 But the fact of the matter is that if consciousness is fundamental, then anything that springs forth and takes physical form is a simulation arising from the energy of consciousness. So if you believe consciousness is fundamental, then we are living in a reality that is somehow created through some energetic process. And then when we look at what science already tells us about the universe, all of them, there's no debate here. What we see as matter, a table, a chair, our bodies, is not really what we perceive it as being. It's energy vibrating at certain frequencies, giving us the illusion of solid objects.

23:28 So what is that? That's a program.

23:30 That is an energy-based set of cascading algorithms and mathematical imprints that are giving us the illusion of a physical world. So yeah, we're living in a simulation. It's a simulated reality. And all of our religions tell us this. Christianity tells us this. Jesus said this world, this life is an illusion.

23:47 Islam talks about it. The Eastern religions all tell us, the Maya.

23:52 That this is an illusionary world.

23:54 And so the reason it's really hard for people to understand simulation theory is because when they hear it, they shut down because of their preconceived notions. But it's the best words we have right now to describe what we're seeing.

24:09 True.

24:09 True.

24:10 That's a really good point.

24:11 And it is hard to describe a phenomenon where we don't have the vernacular that's been approved by some official body that gives us permission to accurately define with the words that we speak what it actually is that we're seeing. I can tell you I saw a glowing floating red orb at night, but the actual determination vocabulary of what I could use to actually describe what that is, I don't have it.

24:36 It doesn't exist.

24:37 I'd have to use things that i've seen in my day-to-day to describe something i've never seen before so that certainly can be complicated especially when you're talking about simulation theory consciousness how it relates to humans the whole kit and caboodle one thing ron it's all connected for sure i tend to lean towards that way as well and was there something else you wanted to mention ron i.

24:59 Was just looking i'm told not to pay attention to the comments but sometimes i do.

25:03 Oh yeah for sure what are they saying We've got.

25:05 Bcat who said, Jesus said, focus on the unseen, it's eternal, the seen is temporary. That's exactly correct, that even Jesus talked about the illusionary nature of this world. And then I have a Dothy guy saying something about that's broken logic, man. All I can say is watch the last half of Accidental Truth next, which you can do for free now.

25:24 It lays it all out in everything from the nature of reality to consciousness to AI to the origin of these beings. I'm not saying that It lays out the definitive truth of the universe, because who am I to deliver that in a UFO documentary? But the argument is there.

25:41 Great.

25:43 Ron, I was watching an interview that you gave, I don't know, not too long ago, within the past 12 months. I forget the channel, so forgive me on that.

25:51 But.

25:53 I learned something from you about the UFO topic as a whole that I wasn't necessarily aware of that I always think it's good to highlight for those in the chat watching this live stream later in the days to come who may be new to the topic. You shed some light on how information is shared within the community or within different podcasts, journalists, whatever, that information is siloed just within the the just regular live streams like this, some whistleblowers or UFO sighting people, experiencers are allowed to talk to one person, but they're not allowed to share information with other filmmakers. Does that ring a bell? I've heard you talk about this before.

26:32 I'm summarizing.

26:33 Because there's people out there that are part of, they've made the devil's deal.

26:37 And that's what I call it.

26:38 And the devil's deal is you're sitting in a room with a congressman, you're sitting in a room with an Intel guy, you're sitting in a room with somebody who knows something. And that person says, Hey, I'm going to tell you something, but you can't share this with the public. And as soon as you say I'm down, you have created, you've committed a selfish act. You have done something for your own personal gratification that null and void your ability to go public with what the public deserves to know.

27:05 You've inserted yourself into the narrative. You've become part of the story and we see it over and over again. I'm not going to name names. I'm not trying to pick fights, but the, the fact is that it's happening. And those are the people who make that deal that get the interviews.

27:21 And they're the ones that get the access.

27:24 I've been very lucky in my two accidental truth movies that I got access to these people. I'm the anomaly. I went around a lot.

27:31 Of different things.

27:32 I had my work with MUFON that got me into the halls of Congress. I got to Lou Elizondo in the very beginning before anybody really knew who he was.

27:41 And Christopher Mellon, too.

27:42 I was involved in History Channel programming back then when they were making the show.

27:46 And so I got access to that.

27:48 I was able to get to a lot of these guys that I couldn't get to them today. Lou is a friend of mine and I could text him right now and have a conversation, but he won't sit in front of a camera for me ever again.

27:59 I don't think. Same thing with a few of them. Kirsten Gillibrand is another one.

28:03 Interesting.

28:04 And real quick, Ron, looks like there's someone in the chat, Jim from MUFON, looks like the Massachusetts chapter, if you will. He had a question, which book or documentary could help with understanding simulation theory? Nick Cook has some interesting work. And he just says, thanks, Jim.

28:21 Yeah, look for Thomas Campbell, look for Rizwan Virk. Watch the new Accidental Truth movie through the second half, and it covers a lot of that stuff. Hey, I see somebody talking about MUFON's YouTube channel.

28:33 We are very proud.

28:35 We've been making this new content and we've got a bunch of people contributing and we just hit 100,000 subscribers. And then, of course, we have Mufon Television, which has all of that content commercial free, but you have to subscribe. But yeah, it's nice to hear that somebody out there is watching our YouTube because we've got, I believe that we're on the verge of having one of the best YouTube channels out there.

28:55 We're putting out really good quality content all the time.

28:59 Isn't Bob helping with that? Bob Spearing as well?

29:04 Yeah, Bob Spearing is really instrumental in the YouTube channel work. He just was moved to the board of directors for MUFON.

29:11 Yeah, he's doing a great job.

29:13 Yeah, my internet is working right now, but I rebooted the whole system, started over again.

29:19 You're still looking a little bit like Karen Dell. Am I really? Sorry, Karen. I had to chime in.

29:30 But anyway, Bob is great. He contacted me and he said something about working together to help the MUFON channel move ahead. So there's a couple of questions. questions I've seen come in. I don't know if you've addressed these or not because I couldn't hear any of the show. How about this right here? Do you think people who stoke fear of evil, horrific alien invasion do so mostly because they believe it or because they are performing a government function? What shadow forces benefit from bad NHI?

30:00 There's a lot of reasons for stoking fear around NHI.

30:02 And there was talk about things like project blue beam, which would be a fake alien invasion. I don't think that's really likely in this day and age because none of us can believe anything we see or hear. So the flying saucers could, could hover over Chicago and we'd be like, yeah, bullshit.

30:16 Right.

30:16 So I don't think that's too likely, but the fact of the matter is that there, there is, it's highly likely that there is a very dark side to this whole story. Just like there's it's yin and yang everywhere. And I believe it has to do with AI. I believe that it has to do with civilizations and entities that are beyond our comprehension, that have different agendas for us.

30:39 And there's a lot of reasons to stoke.

30:42 A little bit of fear.

30:43 And some of it might be valid and some of it might just be being used to forward an agenda. And there's a few different agendas that could be forwarded by scaring the hell out of the population.

30:54 Ron, you're the first one that I know of that's put anything about AI in the Relationship And I'm going to connect someone, a professor overseas to you, because I think you'd be fascinated by this person. But can you just kind of go over a little bit of where you think that plays, that AI plays in this whole situation?

31:15 Yeah, I think we're in for a big surprise when it comes to AI. And that surprise is this. If you do a thought experiment about life in the universe, billions and billions of years, If you believe that there are intelligent, technologically advanced races in the universe that have had billions of years headstart on us, which a lot of people do believe, you cannot escape the conclusion that the ultimate technological revolution goes.

31:44 To AI and artificial intelligence.

31:46 And I think that what we are going to find is that AI is one of, if not the most predominant life form existing in the universe. And that the AI that we're creating could very well be a part of an AI.

32:01 That exists way beyond what we know.

32:03 And that our future is that artificial intelligence is going to be an active force. And in our movie, Thomas Jane says some very, very scary things. He talks about how you have this planet, right?

32:17 It's rocks and it's water. And you want to turn it into a data node, but you need technology. So.

32:24 The DNA robots can spend a couple million years because time is nothing to AI, and they can dig the metals out of the ground and develop the technology and build the buildings and build the power plants and do everything necessary to create a technologically sustainable planet that then the AI can take over and finish building itself. And why would you do that? If you're an AI trying to cultivate a planet, you couldn't just put robots down there because the energy requirements would be insane.

32:52 So it's much easier.

32:54 Just to go down to the planet, populate it with biological robots who are operating on a DNA directive to eventually build this technium. And when they've served their purpose, they've served their purpose. And I think that this dark side to disclosure may very well have to do with AI.

33:12 Very interesting.

33:13 Yeah.

33:13 I mean, look, it's all speculation. I don't want people to think I'm trying to pitch this or sell something. I believe I am saying that there are people that are making this argument and there's a certain amount of worthiness of this argument that it deserves attention.

33:29 I remember Nick Pope had the dark side of disclosure. That was one of his presentations. That was, that was fascinating.

33:36 He talks about it in, in accidental truth. Next we have the, we have the, one of his very last interviews and he really goes all out on simulation theory and the dark side of disclosure. So yeah, it's a, I really, Accidental Truth Next is now free. You can get it on Tubi. It'll be on YouTube pretty soon.

33:52 I really encourage people to watch my movies and I can't be accused of having motivations because they're free. But I've won, both of them made, Accidental Truth made the top, it made number two in documentaries worldwide on Apple. Accidental Truth Next made number one. I've won 42 film festivals with these two movies. But then I meet people in the UFO field that have never seen them.

34:19 It's funny. Wow. Yeah.

34:21 Here's a comment. Martin is back. Does he know he's been gone for three hours? I knew I had missing time.

34:26 Yeah.

34:27 Yeah. Wow.

34:28 Yeah. You look a little roughed up too.

34:29 That was pretty good, Christopher.

34:33 No, you're not having any pain when you sit, are you?

34:37 Yeah.

34:38 So here's Tony from the UK writes this. Couldn't consciousness just be a part of the nuts and bolts universe?

34:44 Yeah.

34:45 Of course.

34:46 We don't know.

34:48 I'm not the person walking around like the Johnny Appleseed of answers. But at the end of the day, it's much easier to explain the universe as information in mathematics than it is to explain it as dirt and metal.

35:00 Here's another one from T-Bone. This one says, what do you think of Dr. Beatrice Vissarol and her first Palomar sky survey? Have you looked into that?

35:12 I love Beatrice.

35:13 Yeah, I got to interview her at Contact in the Desert. So I spent about a while, half an hour, 45 minutes with her. And she's fascinating. And as a kid, I grew up in San Diego. We used to go to Mount Palomar and do all kinds of nefarious stuff. So I'm familiar with the telescope out there. Beatrice's work is groundbreaking and nobody's been able to debunk it at this point.

35:33 So yeah, go Beatrice. We're trying to get her for the MUFON symposium.

35:37 I think that Avi Loeb threw her under the bus a little bit on that. Particular thing, but I've never called her by name, but I did address that when I did interview her myself.

35:47 Look, her stuff got peer reviewed that in, in academia, that is a huge deal and she deserves her platform. And Avi really, nothing against Avi, but come on, dude, don't be the pot calling the kettle black. Now the, at the end of the day, you're the dude who's, who said AI Atlas was a spaceship maybe.

36:06 So yeah.

36:08 He's definitely not the right person to be calling out other scientists that are trying to make progress.

36:14 Good point. That's what a lot of people have made that point. So here's one from Dr. Richard. Please discuss the current UAP event in light of every real possibility that the NHI is forcing the cover-up on pain of some terrible punishment of humankind. Do you understand any of that?

36:34 Look, the idea that That there are non-human intelligence that are forcing humanity to not be informed probably makes sense.

36:44 I don't know if there's some kind of punishment.

36:45 I think the punishment being bestowed upon mankind is being bestowed by mankind. We're doing it to ourselves and we're on the verge of screwing ourselves pretty bad. It's not going to be aliens that come down and get us. It's going to be us destroying ourselves. And I think that's one of the reasons that they do stay hands off and they do stay in the background is because We as a species and a civilization are being allowed to self-determine.

37:10 And if we make it, great.

37:11 We get to join the spacefaring thing and have a future in the cosmos. And if we don't, too bad, people.

37:18 Get out of the way. It's a perfectly good planet. We're going to do something else with it. And I think that's what we're seeing.

37:24 Yeah, we do have the bottleneck to get through, that's for sure. That's been discussed by other.

37:30 People on the way. I don't know if it's the bottleneck or Engman's news.

37:32 I see somebody named Yanni talking about gnosis and gnostic stuff. That would be Archons and the fake beam of light and the soul recycling and the Demiurge, which is an insane god ruling this realm. Yanni, all I can say is I hope that's not true, because what would be the point? I've been looking at those belief systems, and what I can trace the Gnostic stuff back to is that the Gnostic priests were trying to come up with an explanation for why there's so much suffering on Earth.

38:00 And so this whole.

38:02 this whole cosmology sprung forth from seeking that explanation. I'm increasingly not buying it. I believe that we're spiritual creatures coming from source and that we have a certain divinity and I'm not interested in living an entire life so that I can be cataloged, discarded and spit back out as somebody else.

38:24 So what do you think about the, I think it's called the scientific board, the, That was being formed. I haven't heard much about it. Do you understand what I'm?

38:33 Oh, yes.

38:34 Yeah. A new committee to study all the committees.

38:37 And, you know, another committee.

38:39 And let's come up with a new acronym. And what's really funny about that bunch is what do they do in private? It's like Gary Nolan sit there and pretend to Avi Loeb that he doesn't know we have spaceships. Avi Loeb. It's a bunch of guys that.

38:51 Cannot sit in a room and keep a straight face with each other because half of them already know more than they're ever going to be willing to tell. So why are they there? I have been petitioning to get on that panel. I think MUFON deserves a seat at the table. I hope your audience writes your congressman. Yeah, put me in that room. We'll get some results.

39:11 So if you think there are scientists working with government agencies and they discover something extraordinary, do you think they'll be able to publish their findings? Or do you think it would be another cover-up type of situation?

39:26 No i don't know just ask all the dead guys that have come up with free energy what the answer to that question is.

39:32 Oh that is a spooky rabbit hole.

39:34 Ask all the missing anti-gravity scientists you know i suppose if you come up with a new way to grow hair you're going to be allowed to bring it to the world but if you come up with a new way to power a house it doesn't involve an electric bill you're.

39:46 Hell no yeah.

39:50 Yeah.

39:51 Wow.

39:52 Very interesting. So when you're, let's get, just jump around a little bit here in the MUFON media relations. What is your actual goal? What do you, because I haven't, unfortunately, I haven't watched much of what MUFON, the YouTube channel is actually doing. What is it actually doing? Are you actually doing interviews? I know Bob was interviewing Some people, is that what's going on or is there all kinds of things going on?

40:19 We've got a lot of really talented people inside of MUFON that are creating media and we're consolidating it on MUFON television and we're consolidating it on.

40:27 MUFON's YouTube channel.

40:29 Richard Beckwith is doing an amazing, he's doing two shows, the official MUFON podcast and a new one called The Briefing Room, which is really cool. And then Bob Sparing has been, I created a show called MUFON Presents and Bob Sparing has taken those graphics and used it to bookend content coming from.

40:46 All over MUFON.

40:47 We've got thousands of members all over the world and some of them are pretty talented. So we are creating this YouTube channel that is populated with, it's not just one guy doing one podcast and one show. We've got tons of shows and all being created by different people and put in, and then we're doing collaborations with other people like Martin, you could be on, you could have the podcast UFO on MUFON's YouTube channel. And if we did it as collaboration, you actually still get the revenue.

41:15 You just park it in a place where people can get access to it.

41:18 So we're doing a lot of that.

41:19 I think that's what Bob's been talking to me about. I believe that's what he's been talking about. And I have no problem doing that.

41:24 Yeah, no, it would be fun.

41:26 And then as far as my media relations job, that is mainly just interfacing with the mainstream media. Like when Ancient Aliens wants to license a MUFON case for an episode, I'll handle that kind of stuff. When the press sends queries and wants to talk to somebody from MUFON, I'll try to spread that around. I don't know how much longer I can do that job, frankly, but I've been doing it for about four years now.

41:48 Okay. Here's a question from Polly. Could you describe how do you see society's reaction when all this comes out one day?

41:58 It's all about context.

42:00 People used to say, oh yes, we can handle the truth, but we can't. And if somebody were to say, hey, there's non-human intelligence, they're all around us, they're interacting with us, they've been documented for years. They come from outer space, inner space, and the space in between. But hey, it has absolutely no effect on your life. Then, okay, people are like, yeah, cool, man.

42:21 I know.

42:21 I watch Chariots of the Gods. They move on with their life. It doesn't have this gigantic impact on society. But then if it's, hey, we're secretly being controlled by lizard people that are raising us for food, hey, that's a whole different context. That's going to spark a completely different reaction. So the the nuance of are we ready for the truth is not black and white anymore it's full of shades of gray.

42:43 Yeah i never thought i've thought of that i've just have said my thoughts are that we could handle it but i never thought of the conditions of what we're handling because at this point we still have no idea what it is that's interacting with us.

42:57 No we don't and when we talk about Is it ghosts? Is it UFOs? Is it as angels or demons? Is it a civilization that's been here? Is it AI?

43:05 Is it beings from other planets? I think that we're going to find out that it's all of the above. And as Nick Pope says in the new film, in the simulation, there's.

43:14 Just a lot of stuff. And he actually says that. I think it's one of the funniest moments in the film. It's like, yeah, good point. And if there's a need for something that's not already here, it's like, and there you go. It's part of the program. Yeah.

43:27 Here's a question. about MUFON. Do you still collect and post monthly reported sightings classified by type?

43:36 Yes.

43:37 In fact, MUFON just rolled is rolling out a brand new system for reporting and database. And we do that on our site. We publish our most recent sightings pretty consistently. And then if you become a MUFON member, you get access to all of our stuff. And then we also have the new UFO reporting system and database called Andrus, which is rolling out anytime.

43:58 It's two, Super advanced technology. And then we.

44:01 Have Project Aquarius, which is a database that people can subscribe to. And it's set up like a vault that you can literally navigate and find thousands of pieces of information.

44:12 It's incredible what MUFON is doing.

44:19 Ron, we might have lost Martin there. I've been wanting to ask. I always ask people when I meet them. It's a super basic question, but if you'd please appease me here. When was the moment that you decided, hey, I'm going to spend the next 20 years researching this topic, doing all this research, producing all these films, working with MUFON?

44:40 For me, in order to get involved in this topic.

44:43 At a very smaller level than what you've accomplished, Ron, over the years is like, I had to have my own sighting. I had to have something 200 feet away from me that was totally not normal or something that I'd ever seen before in my entire life for me to finally wake up, so to speak, and say, hey, this topic isn't just a bunch of Looney Tunes and crazy birds. It's actually real. And it's a phenomenon that's been happening for a long time. But I had to have that sighting. I always thought everybody was crazy or it was just kind of like fun and games.

45:14 But what was it for you? Did you have your own sighting? Are you an experiencer?

45:17 Or did something else tip you off and you were like, I need to figure this out, even though you hadn't?

45:22 Yeah, it's an interesting story. I'm glad you asked. When I was like 12, I.

45:27 Read a book by an author named Jane Roberts called Seth Speaks. And I got to tell you, if you're 12 years old, don't read that book. It totally lays out reality in ways that left me spinning, left my head spinning for pretty much the rest of my life. But so that led me on a path where I had a very broad interest in answering these bigger questions.

45:46 In fact, that's the name of my TV show that humanity is facing.

45:50 And so I'm studying religion.

45:52 I'm studying the paranormal, but only as an armchair enthusiast while I lived a normal life like everybody else and worked my businesses. But then I ended up in the video production business and I owned a company that did live streaming. And Steve Bassett, I was in Sedona, Steve Bassett from Paradigm Research Institute comes through town. And I'm like, oh, I want to interview this guy. So we met and I interviewed him when we found out I had a production company. He told me he was doing these X conferences and was, would I be interested in going and live streaming them for him? And I later did the citizen hearing on disclosure with him as well. But so I get to the first X conference and I'm hanging

46:31 out because I have all access. I talk to anybody I want, do anything I want. I'm going to shoot interviews.

46:36 And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. There's Nick Pope. I saw that guy. I've known that guy on TV for years. There's Stanton Friedman. There's George Norrie. There's George Knapp.

46:44 There's all these guys that I'd seen on television and never thought I'd be rubbing elbows with. And it was at that conference and listening to these guys speak and getting to know them that I realized there's very few questions that are more important. And we're dealing with the biggest deception ever laid out to humanity. And being somebody who had the ability to create media, I was just like, I'm going to start making some documentaries. So I made my First UFO documentary, it came.

47:10 Out in 2012.

47:10 It was called The Disclosure Dialogues. It won the UFO Conference People's Choice Award and Best Featured Film. And then I've made a bunch of content, worked on a bunch of shows, and my two Accidental Truth movies are like the feather in my cap after all of that.

47:27 But that's how it started. It started at the X.

47:29 Conference, seeing the people that I'd grown accustomed to seeing on television and in films.

47:37 Nice.

47:38 That's a good origin story for sure. Considering the body of work that you've put together over the years, for folks who are just new to this topic, who may see this video five years from now, who knows when they're on YouTube surfing the web, what's one film or piece of work or research article that you've written, interview that you've done, where would you point to somebody to first with the work that you've done?

48:02 I really think that Accidental Truth and Accidental Truth Next are Fantastic movies for people that want to understand this field. They've got plenty in there for people to think they know a lot and they've got plenty in there for people that just want to, that don't know a lot. And so I'm mostly proud of those two movies and you're always proud of the last thing you did because it builds on everything that you've done in the past.

48:22 And Accidental Truth Next is a, it's a film I wanted to make and it's it's done pretty well. And and I think that if you put those two films together, There are people who say that these are the best UFO documentaries ever made.

48:39 I'm not saying that.

48:40 I'm humble.

48:40 I don't want to toot my own horn. I'm just saying what people say. And they've won more awards than any other.

48:45 I've won more awards for my films than any other independent filmmaker. So that's very gratifying.

48:51 The new film about Leonard Stringfield, working with Michael Schrat, who has spent years researching Leonard Stringfield's files and his cases, we roll out 37 crash retrieval cases.

49:04 From Leonard's files.

49:06 That's going to be awesome.

49:07 Some of them have witnesses and we reenact all of these with really state-of-the-art AI. And I got to tell you, man, Michael Shratt, I love him, but this guy is a stickler for accuracy. We would have a truck driving down the road and you'd say the grill on that truck isn't right. And so these reenactments that we've done for this film are just really tight and pretty amazing. And yeah, this is coming out in February. I'm really proud of it.

49:33 It's really shaping up.

49:34 It's almost done.

49:34 Nice.

49:35 Nice. That's awesome.

49:36 Dave Beatty was telling me he calls those type of people rivet counters. They're counting the rivets on a B-52. I'm actually using my phone right now for internet.

49:47 Oh, wow.

49:48 That's way better with your phone, Martin.

49:50 I know. My home internet, which is fiber or something's wrong with it, it's down anyway.

49:56 All right.

49:56 So I've heard very little of this show. And Jack, I'm so glad that I called you in. The whole thing just worked out perfectly and that you rescued the time here, but it's been really great. Ron, I don't know. I didn't hear it, but did you give out all your information? I think we have everything.

50:15 No, you can follow the movie at accidentaltruthnext.com. MUFON television is over a thousand pieces of content.

50:23 They're really cool.

50:24 We're revamping it all the time. It's inexpensive to subscribe and you can become a MUFON member, which I recommend people do. And yeah, that's pretty much those places. I'm on Twitter and social media. And all of those places as well. But Accidental Truth Next will give you clicks to links to see the new stuff. And you can sign up for my newsletter, which will get you information about the new film and things like that.

50:48 Very good. Very nice talking to you for very little that I did, but I do appreciate it.

50:53 I know, darn, this is an hour. Sure you don't want to do two hours? I'm just getting warmed up. I got a fresh coffee here.

50:59 I'll let you and Jack go at it.

51:02 Jack, I hope you.

51:03 Weren't a guest that was expecting to talk because I might have been a little too long-winded, but it was great meeting you.

51:10 Yeah, nice to meet you too.

51:12 Jack helps out once in a while. We live fairly close to each other. He's helped me out a lot in the last couple of years and a real asset to what we do here. But thanks so much and we'll see you and thank you, Jack, as well. All right, so don't forget to come back on Thursday at 8 p.m.

51:29 Eastern.

51:30 We'll be on with better internet, I'm sure, by then, with Andy Peterson about orbs and other things. Actually, he's going to be talking about quite a bit. It'll be a really great show on Thursday. So we'll see you then, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.