The Takedown of Heather Dubrow | RHOC Recap with Alexis Janssen

0:03 Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives of Atlanta, New Jersey, and my own creation, the Love and Marriage franchise and Bell Collective. Every episode, we recap reality television from the Real Housewives franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset. in addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well. Hey, Raindrops. The Monday Night Live crew is headed to New York City. We have a live show on Sunday, September 20th, at the City Winery in New York City. That's right. Come see me, Carlos King, blue-centric Claudia Jordan, and Dustin Ross. live on stage in

0:56 New York City, Sunday, September 20th, City Winery. Get your tickets at KingdomRankInt.com.

1:07 What the heck? You didn't tell me we were starting with chest pumps and fist pumps and I don't even know what. What are we doing? Calisthenics?

1:18 All of the above. I'm a happy camper. So raindrops, if you're listening, you would not have seen how my light ring fell. My red light, rather. So thank God you didn't see that. But more importantly, my YouTubers, so subscribe to my YouTube channel at TheCarlosKing underscore YouTube because you get to see my excitement as we recap The Real Housewives of Orange County episode eight, I think this was?

1:47 Eight or nine. Eight. Eight. Because the mid-season trailer came out and this beautiful woman to my left was featured. And this is the best part. This is the best part. Not only raindrops do I, the Carlos King underscore, get the exclusive of how Alexis came to be featured on this season. And she kept it a good secret from her friend, me. Yeah. I was also thrilled to see the headline in People Magazine that broke the trailer. And let's just say Alexis Bellina was the headline because maybe they knew that would get us to stay tuned for the rest of the season.

2:36 Oh my gosh, Carlos.

2:38 Am I lying? Well... I don't know.

2:42 I mean, if people think I come on halfway through the season as a full cast, I mean, you know, it's not happening.

2:49 But Alexis, before we get into how this came about, am I lying? Your name was in the headline promoting the midseason trailer. No.

2:58 Well, I mean, when you see me come on there and have tears, you know, I'm crying. It's kind of going to get people talking. You know, the tears, the tears are were real. Oh, God. I don't know what they're going to show from that episode, but you know how they could play it up or they could play it back. So you just don't, I don't know. It's going to keep you all on the edge of your seat until that episode.

3:28 Well, how about this? Because I don't want you to spoil anything, but how did it come about? Did you... Because listen, we are celebrating 20 seasons of the Real Housewives of George County. I think what we all knew coming into the season was hopefully we get to see some of the former housewives be a part of the show, you know, and we get a chance to see you.

3:56 Were you... always going to show up because production called you? Or did you happen to show up because Tamara just said, hey, I'm throwing an event. You want to come by? How did that all come about, if you're allowed to say?

4:09 Well, I think I'm allowed to say. I don't think any of this is going to be a spoiler alert. But Tamara, they had many episodes. You've already seen a couple with some of the other old faces. So there were many parties where they were allowing other housewives to make a cameo, let's just say. Um, and, and Tamara had asked for a couple other parties that were thrown.

4:33 If she could invite me as her plus one. Um, and then, and then when she was throwing this party, because it's, um, in support of one of her new products that's coming out, it's a new Vena drink. Um, she, you know, she was, she just said, can Alexis come? And they're like, absolutely. So I think it was more about just when, when was the right fit going to be that Alexis can come on, you know?

4:56 Without giving anything away. Because listen. I can give a little.

5:01 I mean, this is me and you here now, right now.

5:03 Yeah, so.

5:04 I can do a teaser.

5:06 Okay, so tease it for me, baby. Tease it for me. Okay.

5:08 Well, ask something and then I'll tease.

5:11 We see you cry. Were your tears due to a conversation you may have had with Shannon? No, and they didn't.

5:24 Air on this one what I happen to say back to Shannon, which I hope they do air, but I don't know if they will. So we'll talk about it when that episode comes out. But my tears were not because of Shannon. So I will say that.

5:40 Okay. Were your tears because of another housewife? Well, hell yes.

5:47 What else were they going to be? John divorced me at that party? I mean, what do you mean? Why else am I going to cry?

5:55 Were your tears because of Heather, Vicky, or Emily?

6:01 Yes, one of them.

6:03 Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

6:06 Okay, okay.

6:09 Were you caught off guard by this confrontation?

6:15 You mean, was I ambushed? Yes.

6:21 Were you ambushed because of things you may have said on this podcast? Nope. Oh, okay. Are you... Did you reconcile with the people who ambushed you? No. There's a lot.

6:50 It's going to be a very interesting podcast depending on what is shown um because if i have to go off and and state the real it's gonna happen so let's just hope that they show authenticity in these scenes.

7:09 That's all i'm gonna say and listen raindrop just so y'all know because.

7:14 I don't have a muzzle put on me and i will tell the truth of what happened the whole entire truth which might not be necessarily good for every person involved so yeah Yeah. Stay tuned, Carlos.

7:26 Oh, I'm staying tuned. The beauty is this. The beauty is this. Raindrops. And I'm being very honest. Alexis told me nothing. She told me nothing.

7:34 Hey, that's our pact, Carlos. We can talk about the sun, the moon, the stars, everything else. Our pact in doing this podcast is we do not discuss anything ahead of time. And we don't have a script to go off of. So whatever you throw at me or whatever I throw at you, it's all real. So no, we have never broken our pact. And so our pact is going to stay the same way it is. Even though you do want to know the dirt ahead of time, I know you do.

7:57 Of course I do.

8:01 I'm going to ignore your texts. I'm going to ignore your texts until that happens.

8:06 Of course I do. But I also respect the professionalism from my friends. And I'm never going to put my friends in a position to do something out of line. So I respect it. I'm not going to go any further. If anything, Raindrops, this makes us want to stay tuned to see what happens because I feel like what you have.

8:28 Given me is more than enough because the excitement that is brewing from figuring out what's about to happen.

8:41 So, Raindrops, once again, all we know is Alexis cried, she felt ambushed, and we know that somebody... Whether it was Heather, Emily, or Vicky, one of those three caused it. Or more than that. So we have to stay tuned to see. Real Housewives of Orange County season 20 airs every- But we.

9:06 Do know, and also with all of this, we know that that tear is not from Shannon because that woman would never get a tear from me. So there you go. But it was a good teaser. It was good. By the way, by the way.

9:16 Yeah? I enjoyed the mid-season trailer.

9:23 It looks like, I told you if we just stay, just be positive, cup half full. I said, let's stay, let's hope.

9:31 You did. You actually did.

9:34 We didn't know it was going to be 14 episodes in.

9:42 Bada, bada, bada, bada, boom. And there goes the zing, okay? Listen, I want to start off by saying this as we, oh, oh, I got to do this first because you know we have a very active audience.

10:01 Yes.

10:02 So last week's episode, we did ask the raindrops once again, like, okay, about Vicky. Should she stay or go? Okay. And I promise the raindrops and you, Alexis Jansen.

10:16 I do want another. Okay.

10:18 Okay. Let me tell you something. Shout out to my raindrops. We have a highly engaged audience who listen on Spotify. Alexis.

10:27 Okay, real quick, real quick before you start. Are you, we are both in alignment that we are pro Vicky staying on because I don't want her off my screen. So before you start with any of that, I don't care if I'm in the minority on this or the majority. I don't care. I want Vicky.

10:42 Well, what I said last week was this. Based on what I've seen Vicky on Ultimate Girls Trip and OC, my question was more so, as somebody who's a big fan of Vicky, I love Vicky, my question was, should Vicky leave to sustain her legacy? Because I'm not enjoying her. So that was the question. And you said, no, I want her to stay. And I said, well, let's see what the others say. Here are the results. We have 43 comments.

11:19 Wow. Okay.

11:21 It's the most we've ever had on an episode recap in history. Oh, wow. Typically it's like 12, maybe 20. We have 43. Okay.

11:34 I cannot wait to hear what you assessed.

11:37 So I'm going to just read the top lines. Vicky has given enough time to retire. Totally agree with Carlos on Vicky. She wants everyone to thank her and bow down. Alexis, I'm going to give you grace because you haven't watched the most recent episode of Ultimate Girls Trip. Vicky needs to go. Vicky needs to go. Her stick is up.

12:00 Team Carlos. Vicky needs to go. Time for Vicky to go. Vicky needs to go. Wish she never came back. Vicky has given lots of housewives. It's time to tap out to keep her positive legacy. The party pooper's time is over. Team Carlos, 1,000%. Team Carlos. Team Carlos. Alexis is friends with her, which is why she is defending her. Carlos knows best. Time for her to go. Vicky's acting like this is a monumental moment. I agree with Carlos. Vicky is exhausting. I've enjoyed Vicky over the years for the most part. Agree with Carlos. Agree with Carlos. Team Carlos.

12:34 I'm with Carlos. Not one. Is there one? Alexis. No, we are happy Vicky is back. Vicky needs to go. The orange needs to be juiced. I'm trying to see Bob Victoria, Team Carlos, Team Carlos, Team Carlos. Alexis, not one person agrees with you.

12:58 I'm going to remind you words from Carlos King. Don't worry about the 1% that's on this. Okay? That's all I'm going to say because maybe the other 99% aren't on your stupid little poll.

13:11 That's stupid.

13:15 It's only stupid because I lost. Well, I'm sorry, guys. I really, I love you guys, the Raindrops, but I really love Vicky. It is true that she's my friend, but I just, there's something so quirky about her that's just authentically quirky. Like she's not, you know, the other housewives, some of them are putting on shows for the camera and they want to do what they think the audience really likes. Vicky doesn't care what the audience likes. She's just quirky in herself. And that's why I like it.

13:41 I don't know. Sorry, guys.

13:42 I'll be on the outside. Well, I will say this. I wanted to read that first, but I also want to be fair. And I would like to start this episode by saying something I haven't said since episode one of this season. I actually enjoyed this episode. Oh. Wow. I enjoyed it.

14:06 I won't tell you that then we were 10 minutes into the show and I looked at John. I said, I think we're halfway through. And then I looked at my watch and I go, oh, shoot, it's only been 10 minutes. So I won't tell you that. And then I kept looking at my watch and I kept pausing it going, is it almost done? Are we almost done?

14:22 I'm not laundering.

14:23 I want to go do some things. I want to get off the couch. Sorry, girls. I love some of those girls so much. But yeah, it just, I was, yeah.

14:32 Okay.

14:32 So we don't see eye to eye on this one.

14:35 I will say this. And I enjoyed Vicky on this one. And we'll get to that later because the quirkiness to me was much more digestible than past episodes. But I enjoyed this one. And I'll explain why. A lot of it was personal story. And this is so shady. I mean, I love a Heather takedown. So maybe that's why. Oh, gosh.

14:56 I should have known you were going to. I should have known you were going to go there.

14:59 If you want to come to my show, let us know.

15:03 Oh, I'm sure she cannot wait to come running to your podcast.

15:08 Hell no.

15:08 When hell freezes over, she's like, I don't want anything to do with Carlos. Probably me.

15:15 So I've heard. Um, okay. I'm hoping for my sources. Anywho. So one of the things that I want to talk about is, um, The scene that happened in the episode where Emily, Tamara, and Vicky are talking about Heather. Okay, because what happened last week, as we know, Vicky was making comments to Carmella about the fact that, you know, her 14-year-old daughter was sick and Carmella was in Vegas hanging out with them. Heather approached Vicky and said, stop, you're pretty much mom-shaming her. In this scene that began the episode, Vicky talks about Heather. And what she is saying is that she feels Heather is entitled. And Emily joins in and says she wants, meaning Heather, that Heather wants everyone to fall in line. And that's pretty much

16:13 who she is. Before we get into Heather talking to Carmella, I want to get your thoughts on that in terms of Do you think Heather comes across as an entitled person that wants people to fall in line?

16:33 I definitely think that there's an air about her that she kind of wants to lead the room or kind of be the head dog. But I also feel like a couple of the other women do too. So I think that it's kind of like they're all kind of trying to get to who's the top dog or who's the one that leads the room. Um, there's others that the girls that don't really care where they sit or where they stand or what they do, you know? So, I mean, so yes, to answer your question. Yes, I do think so. But I also think that some of the other women do too.

17:10 I think everything you're saying is true. I think when it comes to Heather, look and Heather's real life, Heather controls everything. Um, Heather has a controlling spirit. We've seen her with her husband, Terry. She's a control freak. She's type A. She's just somebody that has that energy. And we've seen it on this show. It's the reason why they gave her the label Fancy Pants. It's the reason why she's anal when it comes to how her house is organized and everything else. That's who she is. And I think when it comes to the rest of the housewives that she has, has to work with. Because once again, I'll go on record saying this, none of these women are her real friends. These aren't Heather's friends. When the

18:02 cameras aren't rolling, Heather isn't calling Gina to invite her to the Baccarat Hotel to have tea. She's not doing that.

18:10 Well, but Carlos, in all fairness, I don't think many of these women are true friends. I think we've all solidified that Gina and Emily are, but But I don't know. I don't really know deep down when filming stops, how many of them really get together off season. You know?

18:30 I agree. I agree.

18:33 I agree with you when you say that none of these women are her friends. I agree with you.

18:36 Yeah, these are her real friends. And I'll be honest with you. I personally would love to see Heather's friends like be a part of the show, like at least two, because I am fascinated. I am fascinated by her, right? I'm fascinated by her world that she has curated for herself. And I'm fascinated by the people she has hand-selected to be a part of her world. You know, like, to me, it's like the process of elimination. It's sort of like, I like you because you belong here. And that's why even when the girls reveal that, and this was more so Jen, Emily, and Gina saying this, that even when it comes to Carmella, which shocked me, not shocked me that Heather said this because let's be clear, she said it.

19:38 It shocked me that they're singing on camera, they're breaking the fourth wall and saying, all of a sudden, you know, Heather... is taking up for Carmela, but she has said things about Carmela calling her trashy, saying that she doesn't, you know, belong in this group, which is translation. She doesn't belong on this show. But then we see Heather at Carmela's house trying to like have a conversation with her.

20:09 I think that that's what the audience is kind of reading about. And even though they're the other girls, the other housewives are kind of reading is that it's, it's almost like one of them said it perfectly. Gosh, I can't remember who said this on this episode that, Oh, Jen, I think it was Jen and her confessional said that everything seems calculated with what it does. And that's, it's kind of, if it, if it doesn't feel authentic or if it, if it's not authentic, it's going to be sniffed out. Eventually you might get by with one or two of the not inauthentic things, but then it kind of becomes, it kind of becomes your MO. And I think that's what the other one and the audience is seeing right now.

20:48 No, that's why is she talking?

20:50 Why is she talking trash on Camilla, but then saying, can you help me with a rental and then giving her a big hug and then telling her, you know, we saw the episode coming up where she's going to tell her, I, I called you trash, you know, and I loved Carmela's reaction. She was like, geez, Heather, that's in the trailer. But like, you know, I don't know.

21:09 This is Reality with the King and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show. I think what I what I appreciate is the fact that I feel like the women are now being brave and courageous enough. to talk about Heather in this way. I've been saying it since this podcast started in 2022 that this is somebody who I believe does this. But I always felt the girls were too afraid of her to call her out on her shit. But this season, they are doing it.

21:43 And I do find it to be interesting because even when the girls are going shopping and they're talking about Carmella... Look, Carmella is somebody that physically doesn't look like most of the women in OC, right? Dark hair, tattoos, you know, she has like this rock star kind of feel. She doesn't necessarily look like some of the women that represent Orange County. And I think that's why you and I appreciate her, Alexis, because when we watch these shows, these shows work because... We don't want to see a representation where everyone is alike. And I think her being this rock star figure is the reason why the audience at large loves Carmella.

22:36 Well, I think it's also her wit and her, she is authentic. She is not caring about what is being said and worrying about like how the audience is going to perceive her boyfriend. You know, she's being very authentic with sharing her personal life, with sharing her family life. Um, you know, and she just, I, I, I like her wit.

22:57 I like her authenticity and I like that she lets everything roll off. Like she does not get, she, she does not get bothered by all the little, you know, digs and things that happen when you're in this group of women.

23:10 Yeah, yeah. Now, Carmella's wit, like you mentioned, is top tier. When she's talking to Heather and she says she thinks Vicky apologized because she knew it would make her look bad and wonders if Vicky is like Betty White, where you get older and have no filter. And then they flash.

23:33 Back to Betty White. I'm sort of saying, like, who.

23:40 Who.

23:41 Comes up with all of that?

23:43 She's good.

23:44 And notice, notice, I can't wait to see how she handles the Heather thing when Heather tells her that she called her trash. I can't wait to hear Carmella's wit in the confessional box. I'm so excited to see that. But even with the Vicky thing, she's like, Yeah, Vicky just, you know, it's like the guy that gets hit in the sack and she just, something seems off here. You know, I don't know.

24:08 Good stuff.

24:10 Yes.

24:11 No, she's good. Again, kudos to Cass and Carmella. I think this season, even if the episodes haven't been the best, Carmella has been the best part of this season to me. So kudos to Carmella. Um, Emily, like I said to you earlier, Alexis, Emily, Jen and Gina go shopping. Um, Jen tells them that in Vegas, Carmela made a joke that she's going to buy a dress to cheat on Danny, you know, pretty much as her payback. Gina feels that if Carmela is saying those things, um, that the relationship they have is not going to work out because if you're unable to truly forgive your partner for the infidelity, um, and you're walking around making those comments is because you truly aren't over it and it's not going to work.

25:02 And I agree with Gina. I think Carmela either has to accept the forgiveness that she is saying she has and not allow it to dictate how she operates in her relationship or for the sake of her sanity and mental health, She should leave. But the question remains, is she not leaving because Danny is a good babysitter?

25:31 No, I don't think so. And I have a little bit of a different take on it. I think that because how authentic and open book that Carmel is being, I think that she might go back and watch this season and find a way in her heart to forgive her boyfriend. I don't know why. I just think there's a lot of things that happen when you're filming... a reality show that you, you watch playback and you learn about yourself and you're like, it's almost like it is, it is almost like a type of therapy. If you really digest what happens and go, okay, that's something I need to work on with myself, or that's something I think there's a chance Carmela could go, you know what?

26:09 I've been really hard on him. He has stuck by my side because remember she last, last episode, episode seven, she commented to his face, When she goes, she's in the brown outfit and she's talking and she's like, I'm hurt. I'm never going to get over this. I'm never going to get over it. And takes the bite of her cake.

26:24 And then she goes, okay, well, let's go pack so I can go cheat on you while I'm in Vegas and do it back to you or something like that. She said it to his face. So I just feel like maybe she'll. regroup a little bit and say, and, you know, do some inward looking and be like, okay, I really do love him. I do want to get over.

26:40 I don't think it's just for the kids. Any, any guy you, you, you, you you're with it. You have four kids. They're going to, well, I'm sorry. No mom is going to pick a guy. That's not going to be willing to help out with the kids when you have four kids.

26:51 No, no, I'm not saying that. No, no, no, no. I'm saying, well, maybe I am a little bit saying this. I, I, my opinion, I do think it's rare to find a boyfriend that, that is willing to babysit and hang out with your kids while they're sick as you are in Vegas hanging out with your girlfriend. I think that's rare for a boyfriend.

27:18 But they've been together for like how many years now? And number one, they've been together like four or seven, four or seven for some reason. I'm hearing.

27:26 I want to say four or two for some reason.

27:28 I don't remember one of those numbers, but, but here's the thing. When you first get with a guy and he becomes your boyfriend, you're thinking long-term with that, especially someone like Carmela when she's got four kids. So I'm sure on the first year they were dating, he didn't just like go, Oh, I'll take your kid with the flu, you know, while you go gallivant off. But now they're in for such a long time and she's, She did stay with him through his infidelity. So I feel like like if John would have if I would not have gotten that feeling from John that he was going to be a father figure to my kids, like a stepfather figure, whatever, I would have not even gone on a second date with him. So I don't think Carmela is going to

28:03 go on dates with guys that she can't see being a part of her family, her her kid's life and helping out.

28:10 My advice to Carmela is to get therapy. Go to couples counseling.

28:14 And you know what? I talked it over with a few people about the way you were looking at it. And you're like, you know, I really do. I absorbed what you said last week. And that is, if she can't get over it, she's really got to let him go. Because it's going to be, how miserable is their life going to be if she's always got that heaviness? He's getting digs thrown at him. I mean, that's just, you know, for right now, I get it because they're still not worked.

28:39 They haven't worked through it all. But yeah, therapy. And then if not, it's time to just cut the losses because although he is the one that cheated, he doesn't deserve the constant digs and she doesn't deserve this dark cloud hanging over her of feeling insecure of him.

28:52 So, yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. I agree. And that's why for me, look, it's debilitating, right? to know that somebody who you love, and like you said, you make the choice to be with them because you do see a future with them with your kids. And to know they cheated, it is a betrayal. You know, Alexis, cheating is a betrayal.

29:24 And I'm like, you and I have talked about it. I don't honestly know if I can get over it. I don't think I would be the one that could just be so easily to say bye You know, but I don't know. And I don't know if I could take it. I don't know.

29:36 Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I just don't know. one thing I do know is you can't, if you see that Danny in this case is trying and he's giving you no reason, then perhaps you may need to let things go because it's not fair to you. And by saying this, it's also not fair to Carmella because you should not, as a woman, put yourself through that. I think that's so self-destructive.

30:08 Yeah. It's harmful to both of them. Although he's the one that did the act, it doesn't really make it any better that she keeps throwing digs at him. It's not two wrongs don't make a right. But it's not good for her mental health and her health about constantly having that worry about, is he looking at someone else?

30:25 Is he thinking about having sex with someone else, like all of that, you know, just too much, too much. Life has too many other things thrown in your directions all the time, but it's like, that's just not one to keep in your circle.

30:38 Yeah. I agree. I agree. I agree. Um, what we also saw Alexis was Emily and her husband, Shane, their wedding anniversary is on Valentine's day. They weren't able to celebrate the day of because, you know, a lot was going on according to Emily. Um, As she and Shane were dating, having a date night for the anniversary. Going back the moment Emily joined the show, because again, I've been watching OC since Tamar Judge joined. So what I was....

31:19 That's why they have to tune in to watch in person because no one gets our little... When we start laughing and you're listening to it, I mean, people have to go, why are they laughing right now? Because they don't see what we're doing behind the scenes.

31:30 That's why you got to watch on YouTube. And it's funny because on Saturday mornings, they'd be like, Carlos, where's our YouTube? I'm like, it's coming at noon, guys. Noon Eastern. Okay. So what we know from Emily since the beginning of her and Shane's relationship is Shane is a ball buster, right? Right.

31:46 He's a ball buster. He's sarcastic. I've always enjoyed him. Even when people were like in his first season with Emily, oh, he's the most hated husband. I always thought he's busting her chops. That's their dynamic. That's their thing. And then a lot of people turned around saying, wait, Shane's a good guy. We now get him. So during this date night, what we do learn, Alexis, is that I was reading in between the lines and I wonder if you picked up on it.

32:20 Oh yeah.

32:21 Okay.

32:23 I was reading in between those lines too, honey. It was double spaced. Okay. Those lines had double spacings.

32:37 Okay. Alexa, I'll have you take it away this time because to hear the nuance of I'm just going to spit it out. To say we're pretty much together because of the kids, I mean, you take it away. As a married woman, as a married woman who's gone through a divorce, What was your take on that scene? I could not wait to talk to you about this particular scene.

33:06 Because again, I respect the fact that I'm not married. This is a married couple. They have kids. I said, this is Alexis Wilhouse, and I would love to hear her POV surrounding the scene. So Alexis Jansen, take it away.

33:19 Okay. Well, I do think it's true that people try to stay together for kids because I did it. I was trying to stay until they were 16. I made it until they were 10, 10, and 11.

33:32 And wait can I ask you this not to cut you off can I ask you this you okay may I ask you this because you don't have to answer it because you're not on the show and I always want to respect your boundaries but when you said that in your mind you thought to yourself okay I'll stay with the kids until they're 16 but you lasted until they were 10 11 do you know the moment you how old were they when you felt that way.

34:01 You mean how, what age did I feel like, okay, I can't do it anymore? Probably right around like eight, eight-ish when they were eight. I just knew I've like, I've only got eight more years to go. They'll have cars by then. They can drive wherever they want. And, you know, there won't be such a fight over who's, who gets them, what, you know, the custody thing. I would say if I felt it brewing probably a year and a half or two after I got off the show, maybe a year and a half, I felt it brewing like this might not, be salvageable. Um, but then I was, I was still all, all in, you know, through the therapy and through everything. And then when it finally, when I finally realized that I'm only staying in this now

34:43 so that I could have them have a car, um, you know, then it just, it just went really South after that. So what I was going to say about relating this back to Emily and Shane, I do believe that people can say they want to stay together for kids and you won't, you can't understand that unless you have kids yourself, which your dogs kind of are your kids.

35:01 Right.

35:01 So I do believe that. But here's the question I was thinking. Well, there's two things I was thinking in between the lines. I've never seen them be affectionate or lovey-dovey. Like when John and I are together, we're not huge PDA people. We're like putting tongues down throats and stuff. But we're very touchy-feely. We're very much in love. We're very much– like you can just feel– that energy. And I, I, you know, when I'm with Tamara and Eddie, I can feel that energy between them. They've got this and they've been married for a decade now or over, over a decade. So, I mean, there, there's just people that exude like, okay, they're really in love. And then people that are more transactional.

35:34 And I feel like she even used that word. I feel like their marriage is transactional, kind of like Hillary Clinton and Hillary and Bill Clinton. There was, I feel like that was a transaction.

35:43 Absolutely.

35:44 So then it's like, that's the first thing. And the second thing is when Shane said that, you know, when you're in on your phone doing Instagram while I'm putting the kids to bed, that was M and F and true. That was so true that she's in their Instagram. She's doing all those TikToks and everything that it's like the big thing now. Poor Shane. I mean, if he's with the kids all the time and you know, that was, and then she defended it. She's like, Oh no, no, no, no. I'm, I'm putting the kids to bed too. Um, but he, he never said, Oh yeah, you do. Like he, he stood by his, his truth, you know? I don't know.

36:19 I just wish, I just wish that if they are staying together for the kids, they can go do some fun things and kind of try to get some spark back in their marriage. You know, that would be, that would be what I would wish for.

36:31 It's one of those things where, listen, I have the privilege, obviously, of working with reality stars who are married, single, divorcees, whatever. And one thing I know for sure is, like you said, staying for the kids is never going to work out for you. It's never going to work out for you because the one thing that I don't think people even understand, and I got this from reading self-help books, watching Oprah Winfrey talk show when it was on, 100% of therapists said, staying for the kids is the worst thing you can do because your kids want their mother to be happy.

37:15 You know what's funny is now that my kids are adults, they have told me that they could sense it and wished I would have left sooner. Like they could sense it. And so now as adults, even back then, they could feel that, you know, and by the way, the one thing that really, the one thing that I would always pray to God about is I said, give me a sign.

37:36 And as soon as the children get involved or the children are seeing things, I've got to leave for the kids. Because honestly, you don't want your kids to grow up in an unhealthy marriage because then they're going to think, that's what they're going to be looking for with their spouse. Like, Oh, this, this is what mom and dad had. So this is okay. No, it's not. It's not okay to not be. I want my kids to be grossed out that John comes over and squeezes my butt when I'm cooking dinner. So what? Yeah, he loves me. And yeah, you guys can roll your eyes and be mad or, or you can go in the other room and let me cook. You know, you don't want to know that sometimes I do it with only an apron on sweetie here. So, I mean, I'm

38:09 just saying, it's like, you know, you want your kids to see what love really is like and, and to be treated and spoken to well and, and to have doors open for you for the girl. And if the boy's not opening the door, you're not getting your allowance because you better be opening your girlfriend's door every freaking time too. Like, you know, you want them to see the way that men and women should treat each other or same-sex marriages. I'm just saying your spouse, you know?

38:33 Yeah, of course, of course.

38:34 So for me, I just think, you know, I just wonder if when her kids are older, if they're going to say, you know, my mom and dad, I mean, I haven't had friends that their parents have been together for 50 years and they're like, but I've never seen them hold hands or kiss. Ever. And they've been married 40 years.

38:52 I mean, that's... Yeah. First of all, thank you for your honesty. And thank you for doing what's best for you. Because I think a lot of women need to hear that. A lot of our listeners are married. A lot of our listeners could be going through this. And I think our advice is, If you're staying for the kids, once again, your kids can sense it.

39:17 But I never knew it. I didn't know it until they were this age, you know, older. I never knew that. I thought all the time we I did just just right you know we faked it while we were and then and we got out as soon as when things started to go really south but no they can they that kids are so freaking smart even at eight nine ten eleven like.

39:38 Because they don't have listen the thing that we have being our age is Even back then, when obviously you were younger, the world is heavy and we have so much on our plate. It's the innocence of kids. The kids aren't choosing the right or wrong thing. They're being children by their feelings and the senses of it all.

40:02 And I think kids are so underestimated with being wise because they don't have the heaviness of the world. Because listen, They ain't got a word about paying bills and all this other stuff and life is lifing. And my, listen, Emily gets a bad rap because obviously Emily's a polarizing character on the show and I'm not excusing her behavior.

40:25 But my advice to Emily would be, and we saw a little bit of this in the trailer. And I really want to talk to you about this further. My sense is this. Emily looks drastically different now than when she started the show.

40:48 Mm-hmm.

40:52 Emily is not the same woman she was when this show started. And based on what I saw in the trailer, when they showed her in the two-piece bikini, and they're marveling how hot she looks, and they're pretty much intimating that, you know, Emily's a different person. Like, she's getting all this attention now. I do wonder, I wonder, and I'm curious by you being in this reality zeitgeist of a world, if you have seen this happen, I do get the sense that Emily, Emily may want something different because she's not the same woman who married Shane.

41:32 Well, I mean, she's not going to be the first, her and Shane aren't going to be the first couple that ever outgrow each other either. I mean- You either grow together or you grow apart. That's the reality of it. And if you let a wedge, a big enough wedge get between you, you're going to grow apart. So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see because, you know, there were just so many statements that she's made this year, last season, season 18 when I was on, little statements that she's made that I've kind of picked up on that just make me feel like they're not really, they are more like just best friends, you know, raising kids together. So- How long can you do that for before you really want to find someone that you just can't wait to

42:14 get home and, you know, whether it's watch a movie on the couch or Netflix and chill with a little more? You know, like, I don't know. It's like, I don't know how long you can just do that without needing that other thing where you're like, God, I love him. I can't wait to call him. You know, you can have a dozen best friends. You have one person that's your partner.

42:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, she said that she's making a lot of steak and they're having a lot of sex. So, hey.

42:52 Okay. I mean, that sounds really good on paper. Every man wants a steak and sex. The two S's, okay? But, I mean. If it happens once a year, I'm not sure that gets you very far. Shane's like, Shane's like, um, yeah, you made me steak up one. And then he changed the subject.

43:09 Yeah. Cause he's like, he's like, he's like, thank you for.

43:13 My one steak. Oh, then he goes, thank you for my steak.

43:15 Like, yeah, like, like don't go there. We're good. Like, I'm not going to go there. I'm not going to go there. But, um, I thought that was very interesting. Just seeing their dynamic. So moving on to that, moving on from that, excuse me, you know, the ladies are with Carmela. She invited them over. They meet the kids, the whole nine yards. Then all of a sudden the ladies are outside and Emily tells Heather, I want to talk to you. And this is my favorite part to me.

43:52 Heather exhaled and said, here we go. Like, like, all right, we're filming a show and this is what you're about to do. Like I'm in the hot seat, right? Alexa, did you get the same feelings?

44:09 A hundred percent. As soon as, As soon as someone looks at you and goes, hey, I want to ask you something, you're like, it's me, it's me. I'm going to get dissected right now. Every housewife exhales and does that in their mind. Heather just happened to be vocal about it.

44:32 That's why I love recapping the show with you because, okay, so to our raindrops, let me tell you a secret what happens on set that that alexis can also co-sign.

44:45 So there's this word called a beat right so a beat is when a producer goes up to you and reminds you to bring something up that you may have shared with them as they contacted you right alexis.

45:05 Or something you've said two scenes ago that they didn't air or they don't know if they're going to air. And so now they have information. So then they want you to go and speak a little bit more about that.

45:14 Yes.

45:15 More. Yes. So raindrops. When the girls are together, they all know if we're all together, somebody's in the hot seat. You may not always know. The only ones who knows is the one who has to bring up the topic.

45:36 One that gets tapped is the one that knows. And she's holding all the information. And she might go tap another girlfriend and say, hey, come over with me. I got to do this beat. And then they all go, you know, so that's how it happens. And if you haven't been tapped, you better darn straight know that it might be you about to get attacked.

45:54 Yes. And one of my Atlanta housewives said this once. If you don't get a beat, it's because you are the beat, honey. You're the beat.

46:05 Sweetie pie, that was so good.

46:07 That was good. That was good. That's so good. Okay. So my point is, that's why this podcast- And by the.

46:13 Way, you don't like either. You don't like either. You don't like to be the one that gets beat because you also don't want to have to bring up certain things. You're like, oh shoot, why did I mention that before? Now I've got to talk about it again. And you also don't want to be the one that's not beaten.

46:28 So basically these all get together suck is what I'm trying to say.

46:31 So just so y'all know, housewives, they get nervous when all the girls are together because they know like, oh fuck, who's my hot seat? Housewives also know when they go out of town on trips, something big is going to happen. So just so that's okay. So my point is, Heather's like, here we go. Like, fuck, okay, I'm in the hot seat.

46:56 It's my turn today. Go ahead, Emily. So Emily starts.

47:01 To- Heather, it's been Heather a lot, though, this season.

47:05 It's the takedown of Heather Dubrow season. I'm telling you, it really is. So to make this scene make sense, which I thought, I'm kind of on Heather's side here because- Emily is complaining of all things. Heather has to sit at the center of the dinner table. She has to walk in first. She has to walk in front of everybody.

47:35 And Heather's like, what are you talking about? You sit in the middle of the front. You guys also walk in first. When I do it, it's because of good lighting. Heather, I give you a hard time, but when you're good, you're good. And Alexis, that was good.

47:55 That was good. She's always got good one-liners. She's witty as hell. She always does. I mean, that's not something... You may pick her apart about other things, but that is one thing you cannot say about her because she has words that a lot of people don't know how to spell or what they mean. And she also has good...

48:12 She has good witty lines, one-liners. So, I mean... It was kind of the pet, spit it out, Alexis, the pot calling the kettle black when Emily said that because then they flashed back to all the times Emily's in the middle and sitting at the center of the table and all that. So it's like, okay. Like, honestly, they probably won't find any pictures of me in the middle because I just don't even care where I end up anywhere.

48:35 So that would have been a true statement, but not for Emily. Emily and Heather are very equal in that category, in my opinion.

48:44 It is. I feel the same way. I was just sort of like, look, I don't understand why this is an issue. You guys are bringing up that she trash talks Carmella, but maybe you want to do that when you're not Carmella's house. So I get that. Tamara tells Heather, we love you, but sometimes you're a lot. And also said that You know, you screamed at Vicky, telling her to stand down, but you also told us last year you don't like the whole thing. yelling thing because your father did it and Heather's like don't break on my father and Tamara's like but you said it.

49:29 Exactly it's like you can't say that because you're the one that brought his name into it last season so so it wasn't Tamara that brought it up she has a right to you know that was a very good comparison by the way, that Tamara made.

49:39 It was. Very good.

49:41 Very quick, because I would have forgotten about that scene if Tamara hadn't thought of it right then to compare it to.

49:49 Yes. I thought it was a good tip. Great comparison. And listen, you know me, I love an activated Tamara. So I was like, welcome back home, bitch, because you've been missing. I literally have to call 911 and file a missing persons report Because I'm like, what the fuck is Tamra? But Tamra gave us a little bit of that this episode. So I'll take it. I'll take it.

50:10 I'll take it. Heather is in the hot seat. But meanwhile, Vicky and Carmella are talking. Shannon's there. And, you know, Carmella's telling Vicky, like, look, I want to make sure we're good. Because sometimes when things happen, I pretty much have a delayed reaction. And I just want to make sure we're good. And Vicky's like, look. Don't put the mom shame thing on me because that was not my intention.

50:37 And I want you to know that was not my intention. But then it cuts to a confessional where Vicky says that Danny is filling the role many times. Which I did laugh.

50:51 I laughed too.

50:52 That's a Vicky I like.

50:54 At the same time, Carmela's not leaving her kids except for going to work. I mean, is she not supposed to work? Let her work, you know?

51:03 What? No, I'm with you.

51:04 Not like she's on a Vegas trip because she's with her best friend. She's on a Vegas trip working because that's where the all-cast trip was. So I don't know. I mean, I had to leave my kids when I would do those trips.

51:16 Sucks.

51:16 I don't like it, but I do it.

51:18 It's your job. You're a working mom.

51:20 Yeah. And I think Carmella's a good mom. I agree.

51:25 And I always say this. You can tell what a great mom a woman is by the way her kids treat her. Yeah. And, and they treat Carmela like, like you said, like she's our mom. Yes. But she's also like our friend. Like we like her. We bust her chops too.

51:41 Oh, they're laughing and having fun together. It's not like they're rolling their eyes or like their mom. They're totally all, they all do the same shtick, which is fun. They have a great sense of humor in that family. I loved it.

51:51 I loved, oh my God.

51:52 Are we going to get to that? Where she says, I'll give you a blow job if the daughter was right there.

51:56 Yeah.

51:58 I literally, I'm like, thank you, Carmella, for giving us some comic relief on this episode.

52:03 No, I'm telling you, she's fan-fucking-tastic. I just love her. I love her. She's who she is. And I like any woman that is unapologetically her. Like, she is who she is. Speaking of inappropriate things, I did find this moment to be cute. End of the episode where the women are just talking about you know, their relationships. And I forgot who said it about, was it Emily who said she does not have the passcode to Shane's phone?

52:40 And so let me ask you this. I don't, I've never had the passcode to my, in my relationships. And by like, we didn't share each other's passcode, nor did we ask. We also don't share location. Just, We just don't. We keep each other abreast to like via text, like what we have going on.

53:02 None of your partners, you've ever shared phone or locations? No.

53:09 Wow. Do you and John Jansen share location and passcode?

53:13 You know, we haven't even ever had the conversation about location because we're together. We're either, we know we're, we're either one of our businesses or we know where the other person is. So it's not like, it's not like, I don't know, but if we ever discussed it, I would totally share my location in a heartbeat. And especially if I'm like, I think I have shared it with my– I would share my location with kids when I would be in sketchy– or, you know, if I didn't have John or whatever, I would be in sketchy places or whatever.

53:38 But we– every boyfriend, fiancé, or husband I've ever had, and we know I'm on my third husband. Fourth fiancé, third husband.

53:48 So, okay.

53:51 We're just keeping those numbers getting high, okay?

53:53 I don't know. I love it. It's popping now.

53:55 Anyway, I've always– made it very clear. We have to have full transparency with passwords, bank accounts, like, like everything. It's like, we have full transparency. So yeah, we do. And not that I'm opposed to the location thing. And it's not like we get on each other's phone. It's not like, you know, I don't know. I've never, the only time I've gone on John's phone is when I need to get a picture that he has on his phone to send it to me or vice versa, you know, like whatever. And it's funny because the kids all know my password. So then they were trying to figure out John's password to get in his phone and his daughter was, And she's like, oh, I got it. I go, how did you know the password? She goes, because it's yours backwards.

54:32 And I was like, oh.

54:35 These kids are so smart.

54:39 I know.

54:42 I was like. I would have never guessed that.

54:46 Yeah, it's crazy. And my kids, that's the thing. My kids have my password. I don't have anything to hide on my phone. If you have anything you want to hide on your phone, you put it in the vault on your phone and then no one else can get into that. But you don't keep things on your phone that you don't. I have a very honest life anyway.

55:00 So it's like, I don't care who can get it.

55:04 I'll say this. I'll say this much. It's too much work to like cheat. I feel like cheating is another job.

55:12 And then to keep your, where it would get stressful for me is to keep it, like, where did I tell him I just was? Or who did I tell him I was? Like, trying to keep everything, like, I can't even keep the truth together all the time. I'm like, oh, wait, where was I going today? Oh, yeah, I'm going there.

55:27 I can't even keep the truth.

55:28 So how am I going to do that when I'm trying to, like, cover up something?

55:32 The same way. Because the thing for me is this. To hear how, I think, yeah, Shannon brought this up, that her ex- The woman he had an affair with, he had her number under a different name. Crazy. And because she memorized the number, she called it once, and it was another name, and she read through the text messages.

55:57 My thing is this. I don't have time for that. I don't have time to cheat, and I don't have time to be cheated on. I'm not going through your fucking phone. If I feel the need to do that, I'll break up with you.

56:13 Well, okay, so you're telling me that you're with Brian, is your boyfriend, current boyfriend.

56:19 Okay.

56:20 And you've been together for a year.

56:22 Okay.

56:22 And you know that something's off and that you think he's lying to you.

56:25 Yeah.

56:26 And you confronted him and asked him politely and nicely and you think he's lying.

56:30 Yeah.

56:30 You're saying you wouldn't get in his phone.

56:33 No.

56:33 And just do a quick assessment and see if you can find the truth. Because this detective would. So, John, if you listen to this podcast, sweetie. I do have your passcode and this bitch will be coming.

56:45 Through your phone.

56:45 So you better not lie to me because I will find it out quicker than you can even say shorts. I am not too shy to find out if somebody's cheating on me. Here's the thing. Here's where I would back up though. If I ever got a feeling that someone was, that my partner was lying to me, and there was something off and I felt like he was cheating, there's a problem. So the problem goes deeper. And then if he is cheating, you want out. But also if you're having those feelings about it, there's a deeper, there's a deep issue too. So yeah, just because you have the passwords to each other's phones doesn't mean you're tempted to look or you think anything's wrong.

57:29 I feel like this though. I just, okay. I'm going to tell you what I, what I, what I, Okay, exclusive for you, Alexis. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's fine. Look, it's you and the millions of people who are watching and listening, which is fine, okay?

57:47 Just me and a million other people.

57:49 It's no big deal. Okay, I was in my 20s. We had a long-distance relationship, okay? And I felt that he was cheating. And what I did do, one night we were... Coming home, I was visiting him where he was living, and the police sirens came on. And he was nervous, like, oh, my gosh, am I going to, like, get arrested for, like, whatever reason, right? Like, he was nervous, like, whatever.

58:23 You're a siren.

58:23 I'm not thinking it's me.

58:25 Yeah, the sirens came on, and the cops pulled us over. And he said, if I get arrested, this is my PIN number to my ATM card. And I said, okay.

58:38 Why? Were you using his money at the time?

58:42 No, he was just saying like, in case you have to build me out of jail. Oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

58:47 Get me out of jail.

58:48 Sorry. Here's my ATM card. In case you have to build me out of jail, here's the PIN number. Withdraw the money. Okay. So the cop pretty much said, you know, I'll just put you over because of the license plate, whatever. But I remember the PIN number. And because I was suspicious of him cheating on me, Remember back in the day?

59:09 look at Alexa's face. You gotta watch YouTube.

59:11 I already know. And I'm so glad you're telling me this story, but keep going. I know the PIN number was his phone password code number.

59:18 Okay. So remember back in the day? No. So this is like, this is like early, early, like mid 2000s. Right? So remember back then, you would call the cell phone, and when the voicemail came on, you hit pound and type in your passcode to the voicemail.

59:37 Yep.

59:38 Okay. I called his phone. He didn't pick up. I hit pound, and I said, let me see if his PIN number is the same as his phone passcode, and it was.

59:50 And so you heard voicemails, and was there another dude on there?

59:53 Yes.

59:53 He was cheating?

59:54 Yes.

59:55 So see, you are not Mr. I don't do pass code.

59:58 This is 20 years ago.

1:00:00 I'm just saying, I'm just have a feeling, Carlos, if you were with someone that you loved and you thought you're wasting your time on a cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater, you would, you would do some detective work too.

1:00:12 I think I would just, I'll say this much because the, okay, so let me finish telling the story. So long story short, I confronted him. He admitted to it. I was hurt. We got back together.

1:00:28 Well, you can't lie about it. You heard the voicemail.

1:00:30 Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was just sort of like, whatever. But I took him back. But I remember my mother saying this and it stuck with me. She said, be careful what you go out looking for because you then are forced to make a decision that you may not be ready to make. And she said, if you are suspicious enough to do it, then 99.9% of the time is true. And the reason why I'm saying today in 2026, if I feel it, I don't even need the confirmation anymore because I feel like I have enough sense to know that whatever. And I would rather say, hey, let's talk about if you are. And I think I think I'm smart enough to understand if I at least, if I at least position it that way to my partner, then they'll say, okay. And if I feel like you're lying,

1:01:26 I'm breaking up with you.

1:01:27 But, but it's different when you're married though, Carlos, because you can't break up with Don. You know what I mean?

1:01:32 Like if I felt like he was.

1:01:33 If I got to that point, I would have to do some research and detective work because you're not breaking up a marriage. Even if you don't know you're going to break up a marriage, but like, So I don't know. I can see how in 20 years you've grown and you've decided I'm just not going to do that anymore.

1:01:47 I'm just going to end the relationship. But I just think you can't really judge it until you're in the situation. Because if you're madly in love with this man and you were thinking about marriage and like you guys have kind of started to co-mingle and you've got stuff at his house, he's got at yours. And I mean, you're not there with anyone, but I'm just saying if you were, you might not just say, oh, sorry, I'm getting a red flag. We're done. You might have to do something different.

1:02:10 Yeah, no, 100%, 100%. So my big thing is, listen, Raindrops, let us know in the comments again, if you suspect your partner's cheating on you, would you go through their phone?

1:02:24 Oh my gosh, this is so great. We have to hear these answers next week.

1:02:28 We've got to.

1:02:29 I guarantee this one, I'm going to make a prediction. I think this one's going to be 40, 60. I think 60% of people of your comments are going to be, yes, I would have a passcode. And yes, my husband and I do. Because a lot of people do on their computers and everything. I think 40% are going to be like on your side. No, I'm not just, I'm just not going to do it.

1:02:48 I actually agree with you. You do? I do.

1:02:51 I do. I do.

1:02:51 Because the thing is this, I know a lot of couples who that's, they have each other's passcode. Yeah.

1:02:58 I almost every, I'm trying to think right now, aside from you, almost every friend that I know that's in a relationship has the passcodes.

1:03:09 So raindrops. More than 40-60.

1:03:12 It might be more like 70-30.

1:03:13 No, it's going to be good. Listen, the past poll, I got 100% to your zero. So raindrops, leave a comment. Go to Spotify. The Spotify comments are the best. Leave a comment. If you're on YouTube, leave it on YouTube, and I will read the comments on our next episode.

1:03:32 Just agree with me a little bit, guys, because I lost the last one. I can't be a believer every week.

1:03:36 Now you're cheating. Not cheating. Cheating, cheating, cheating. Okay.

1:03:42 You can DM me and tell me you agree with me. I'll send you my passcode. So now I'm cheating and bribing.

1:03:50 She's competitive, y'all. She's competitive. So rain, God, let us know. Spotify comments, YouTube comments. And if you're not subscribing, subscribe to my YouTube so you can see Alexis and I on the big screen. Alexis, I will see you next week. Have a great weekend, darling. And my girl is back. Can't wait to see it. Gosh.

1:04:09 Love you guys.

1:04:10 Bye. Love you, boo. Reality with the King is executive produced by me, Carlos King, produced by Jamie Schaefer in partnership with the Black Effect Podcast Network. You can also find us at our YouTube channel at thecarlosking underscore. I'm also dropping tons of exclusive episodes on Patreon, which you don't want to miss. Make sure to subscribe to that, too.