Can Ryan Montgomery Run 200 Miles in a Day? (Singletrack News)

0:00 We are back. This is the Monday, October 26th edition of Single Track News, joined once again by friend, colleague Brad Hornig. Bret, how's it going?

0:09 Back for another week. Filling in for uh two in a row. Uh we're streaking. Excited to yeah, excited to uh chat news with you. Um yeah, kind of fun to do it like just one week after last because now I've got a little bit shorter timeline of tabs on what happened.

0:31 First up here, final takeaways from Biggs Backyard slash the international team championships. I think both you and I got more invested in this than uh than we thought we would, which is probably a good thing. Now that now that the dust has settled, now that the event's over, general takeaways from your viewership experience.

0:50 I really liked the nostalgic um feeling that I got from following it by watching a website. You know, I basically just watch it refresh once every hour, where I'd like be waiting for the timings to update on various countries and be like, I'm like, oh, okay, Belgium's still in, France is still in, Japan's still in, Australia's gone.

1:12 And then, you know, maybe I'd go do some and come up and I'd be like, oh my God, Australia disappeared. They tapped out. Now it's blah blah blah. And then the website, you know, would do all the math. So the, you know, the entire last like day and a half, I was yeah, I had the website up like the whole time and would just periodically throughout the day refresh it and see.

1:32 And then and then when it came down to like the last few la yards, uh, then I had the live stream up and I was watching that at times too. Um, so like I watched Japan's final yard. And uh and then I I actually missed the US's final yard. I it's kind of snuck up on me, and then and then uh yeah, and then and then it ended with with in it ended in a weird way.

2:04 I but at the same time I also kind of understand it. I mean care to care to break down how it how it all finished.

2:10 Well, the the US is I I was watching the US's final yard, which was which was weird because I tuned in because I was I was basically going back to the live stream at about the 50 minute mark of each lap just to see how those last 10 minutes would transpire. Yeah. Somewhere closer to the nose. And it was weird because right around 52 minutes, eight minutes left to go, the camera sort of pans out to the entire crowd there that's waiting to finish, and you can hear them chanting.

2:38 Um was it is it John Noel? Was he the one that finished second? I think it was John Noel. I I'm blanking on his name, but Noel was his last name. And they were basically like chanting his name from about eight minutes to go until the bell for the final lap. And the way because there was no commentary happening at the same time, so I didn't have a ton of context, but because of what they were doing, I had the impression that he was imminently going to come in and that this was going to continue for a lot longer.

3:06 But it turns out it was just eight minutes of them trying to basically will him out of the woods. Oh, and it never happened. And even Mark was really cool, it was cool to see Mark come in. Mark had a really strong lap and testament to this guy's durability, his ability to fend off sleep deprivation, et cetera.

3:24 But like he finishes his loop. Uh, and I'm sure with not a ton of knowledge about what's behind him. Maybe they did, maybe he did see this guy and was like, okay, like I think he's in a tough spot. I'm gonna cheer, but like hits the timing mat, turns around, and he's just like standing super upright, like great posture.

3:42 And he's like joining the crowd trying to get this guy in. And obviously, you know, long story short, it never happened, but it was really cool to see him set aside what I'm sure was a lot of fatigue and thinking about the next lap to like uh it really it it to me it symbolized like the team environment that they were participating in.

4:01 Which is also why I'm okay with the way that the whole thing ended.

4:07 So are you talking about the Belgian team? Yes. So you and I have both been hypercritical about ties in other ultra events in our sport, especially among the professionals. We did see something to that effect happen here. Uh the the Belgian team, actually, those two individuals set a new world record for the backyard format, the number of yards completed.

4:30 But as soon as they hit that world record, they both agreed to just stop there. Your thoughts?

4:37 This whole time that we've talked about this world championship, it's a team sport. Like the the only way, though, that a country can get out is if one person is left standing. Like there's only one lap, you know, like for Australia, for the US, there's only one lap the entire time where it's technically not a team sport anymore.

4:59 But for every other lap, it's a team sport because you're trying to score as many points as possible so your country can win. I mean, that was definitely the clear goal across everybody participating. So when Belgium's out here for 100, what was it, 126 or something? Yeah. Yeah, 126 laps. I can only imagine what that that bond is like by the time you get to the end where it's like you and I together, we would have to go 200 yards if we want to catch up to the US.

5:34 We have a chance of cracking the world record, though. So that's still something. Why would we we've done we've worked together up until this point. Why, why would we then try and have an individual win when this entire time there's been nothing individual about this? Like, see, that's where that's where I got hung up.

5:58 Because like to me, it's I've I've been viewing this whole thing without a single care at who the individual winner ends up being. Like what I was focusing on the entire time was which country had the most points. So like I didn't even I didn't really care who the individual people were in regards to like who was who won for Japan, who won for Australia, who won for the US.

6:23 I I was I was more invested in the team aspect of it. So then like once Belgium was the final country left, I'm like, well, why are you even still going? I mean, you're not gonna win, you're not gonna catch the U.S. in terms of points. So I guess the consolid consolation prize there is we have a chance at working together to break the world record because this is an opportunity that doesn't happen too often.

6:45 And then yeah, and then you call it at that point.

6:48 See, the my my take here is I wanted to see every single team go to failure with the U.S. We saw that. We saw John Noel just simply not make it to the finish line. Like he sort of played through the whistle, so to speak. The same with the Japan team. I did catch the part of the live stream where like the guy just kind of like keeled off to the side of the road and was just like kneeling over in total defeat.

7:11 Like they played to the end, to the bitter end. And I totally agree with you that you know the Belgian team, I think, was at least a day and a half behind. With two people left, it was going to take about a day and a half to to catch the US. But I still want to see him try.

7:27 I I understand the honor there in like going for it, but you know, you don't always have to smash every world record. Look at look at Mondo Duplantis in the pole vault. Just inch that thing up by a centimeter. Give yourself a year, go break it again, you know. I can only imagine the bonus money in breaking a backyard ultra world record.

7:55 Another piece to talk about here. Uh, I think this is interesting. So, you know, we're recording this in late October. We're probably five or six weeks away from our annual like year in review episode where you know we offer perhaps some helpful or just at least interesting takes around Troy, U-Roy, end of season awards.

8:11 Mark Dowdle has had, he's a backyard specialist. I think he would identify, he would self-identify that way. And if he doesn't, I apologize, we'll we'll fix it. But I think he identifies as a backyard specialist. He's had a great year, great 2026 resume. Question for you this is a fun, I think this is just a fun hypothetical.

8:28 Does he deserve to be considered in the Euroi voting?

8:33 So we've definitely had people who've done backyard ultras make it into the Euroi. You know, like I'm thinking Harvey Lewis. Harvey has made, he's been in the Euroi top 10 a handful of times. He's very good at backyard ultras, but do you think he would consider himself a backyard ultra specialist? Because he's done other, he does other things too.

8:54 In more recent years, he's definitely leaned more heavily into the backyard ultra. I'm curious now, like, can someone who's like say only results for 2026 are backyard ultras? How does that get weighed into the Euroi scoring? I think it absolutely needs to be put into consideration. There seems to be enough people doing backyard ultras where even if it's not the same runners that are doing, you know, the other Euroi races that we pay attention to, Mark Dowdle is still beating a lot of people and being the best at it.

9:35 So that has to count for something.

9:39 I'm looking at Harvey's results on Ultrasunter now just to confirm. And I would say, you know, maybe one of the interesting things about Harvey is at least until very recently, he's very diversified in his resume. He's got like, for example, a couple years back, podium to the Bigfoot 200. He's won strolling gym, podium at Bad Water.

9:57 We interviewed him before Weston States. A couple years ago. I think he was going for maybe it was like the one of the masters records or the over 50 records, something like that. Um, he's run Barkley a bunch, attempted Barkley. So he's been pretty diversified. Whereas, yeah, like I Mark has actually had a, I was just saying this uh in our group chat uh a few days, or maybe earlier today, that you know, Mark, Mark's first races in our sport were like some of these Air Viper races.

10:24 He took uh he ran the Elephant Mountain 50. Shout out Air Viper running like a month before COVID shut the world down in February 2020. Um yeah, like so, but I would say at this, if you look at just the last two years, Mark definitely has like become that backyard type athlete.

10:42 So the community I think I think it should be considered for the Euroi. Does it make the top 10? I don't know. I do think it should be considered. The biggest caveat with it that has been the same thing with many runners for Euroi is Euroi does take into consideration a diversification of races. Um one of the like uh Jen Lichter last year.

11:09 I don't know where she did she uh did she make where where did she end up last year? But it was like if you win every single 50k, there's a high chance and you are amazing at that. There's a high chance that you will never be number one on the E-Roy. Even if you're like easily by far throwing down the best performances five times in a row, but they're like it's still just like 50k, 50k, 50k.

11:33 Like we want to see a wider uh range of distances. So maybe it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, Mark Dowdle, I feel like is good absolutely going to be considered for somewhere in the top 10 of the Euroi. Probably not number one, though.

11:51 Yeah, I'm pull I've pulled up the the Roy voting from last year. I'm trying to look at like a comparable person. Like Meg Eckert might be someone who's somewhat somewhat comparable because like she ran Biggs backyard last year, uh ran a six-day over in France. But then like, yeah, there's some diversification.

12:12 It also ran across the years, but like she's also got some diversification, like ran a couple 50K's, bad waters in here. So yeah, to your point about the range, you know, there's that. But like I it if in their description for Meg, they're definitely highlighting her multi-day stuff. Like, you know, she ran like the six-day record that eclipsed Camille's time.

12:33 Totally, yeah. Which was big and it's just stuff like that, yeah.

12:37 And I and I guess there's probably gonna be people who are like, no, people who run backyard shouldn't even be considered for you. I mean, my counter-argument there is that backyard ultra is very much ultra-running. Definitely ultra running. It's it definitely seems to fit in that ultra-running category to me because it's like running a lot, it's an endurance event, goes for a long time.

12:59 That seems to check all the ultra-running boxes to me.

13:04 If we're being historic, it is the origins of the modern sport, pedestrianism.

13:08 There, yeah. Was it like New York City, like Lap and Time Square for a summer? No, they were filling Madison Square Garden with spectators. Exactly, yeah. With a lot of money on the line.

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13:54 Also, thanks to Precision Fuel and Hydration, the official nutrition partner of the show. You all know by now that I'm gearing up for the California International Marathon in about six weeks. Nutrition is absolutely a make or break component of having an ideal day out there. I've been using Precision's Fuel and Hydration Planner, which is totally free on their website to tinker with plans, especially as I've been training the gut during workouts and long runs to handle higher carb intakes.

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14:37 Similar to Nordham making my favorite footwear, precision by far makes my favorite sports nutrition in the sport. Go check it out. Very last thing here, Mark also has the chance to accept or turn down an auto qualifier to next year's Barkley Marathon. So I guess this is part of his opportunity if he wants to diversify in the sport and take on a challenge that uh is a little bit less structured, more navigationally oriented, should he take it?

15:01 Do you want him to take it? Even of course. I mean, even if something like Barclay is like way outside of what you should be doing from a like specialization standpoint, wouldn't the curiosity like be enough just to like, I want to just see it and experience it? Like if you had an opportunity to start Barclay, wouldn't you start Barclay?

15:25 Because you're just like, I gotta see what that's like. Gotta see what one lap is like. I think I just don't I just don't see why you wouldn't take that.

15:35 We, you and I were always debating whether or not the current golden ticket races for Western states are in alignment with that course. Like d do those races yield and prepare runners for the challenges of race day. I think m my strongest take here, it doesn't have to do with Mark. It has more I I'm not sure the backyard format is the right precursor for for Barclay.

15:57 No, it doesn't make much sense to me. I also don't know what other races out there are like good precursor for Barkley. I mean, there's probably some small ones. There's all that one down on like Auburn, the like Yucher Bar massacre. Uchrebar.

16:13 Euchre bar, yeah.

16:14 Yeah. Um that sounds like a Barclay kind of thing. Um But yeah, I mean, uh aside from just being out there for a long time and going very maximum sleep deprivation, I don't know what uh Barkley and a Backyard Ultra have in common beyond that.

16:38 Next up here, Ryan Montgomery calls his shot 200 miles in 24 hours at Desert Solstice in early December, a few weeks from now. Breaks the news with David Melli at Sidious Mag, which is pretty cool. That was sick to see. Yeah, your thoughts on on did you read the article?

16:54 No, I haven't I even had a chance to yet. I was too busy just thinking about well. Falling back yards. Well, Susie Falling Backyards, and then I mean yeah, I'll I'll go back and check the article, but um I feel like the headline was enough excitement for me for being like oh well I had a feeling Ryan was doing something on the track because he had been running a lot on the track.

17:22 And so I was like, I I thought it was gonna be a hundred-mile world record attempt, but instead it's 24 hours, which is also I think this is also one of the things that's really fun, but no one's broken 200 miles in 24 hours. Because what is it, 198? 198 from Sororkin. That's fun. That's fun to just have a massive milestone being a day, and a massive number shift where you can be in a different hundred.

17:53 Like that to happen to line up. You know, it's it's like sub two-hour marathon type, you know, breaking four minutes on the mile, sort of thing, sub ten second hundred meter dash. It's it's one of those big, like big ones where it's like you could crack 200 miles in a calendar day. Um yeah, I don't I'm excited that Ryan's going for it.

18:17 I mean, I and it doesn't surprise me that Ryan's going for it. It doesn't feel out of pocket at all because Ryan's done Ryan's done all the different types of races. And it it seems like Ryan has unlocked a new, I don't know, sense of fitness, confidence, um all of the things, consistency. It seems like this is the best time to go for it.

18:44 And it will be at Desert Solstice, right?

18:48 Yeah, Desert Solstice. I'm scrolling back here just to confirm. Yeah, uh was last year in 2020, ran 154 miles, which uh actually it was a this is a fun little historical anecdote. Amazing battle with Nick Curry. This was the year, I think, didn't record year. This was not because it was the next year.

19:11 Nick, so sorry, Nick ran 173 miles in 21, but still this was a great battle between I mean this this battle between Nick and Ryan came down to 1.3 miles. So what, five laps on the track?

19:25 Yeah. And you know, the other thing too is kind of like we've talked about Havelina, the experience part of this. There's not that many opportunities to race like a competitive track 24-hour Desert Solstices, perhaps our best opportunity in the US. Ryan's gotten to experience before, you know, it was a while ago, but not so long ago, where I'm sure like I'm sure he hasn't forgotten, you know, things that he should adjust or change.

19:53 Um so I don't feel like he's gonna be going into this, you know, feeling like a rookie by any regard. What do you think about CIM two weeks before this as a coach? Good call, bad call? Okay, racing CIM or running CIM kind of hard. Because those are different.

20:14 Yeah, let's assume if let's assume Ryan is keeping the main thing, the main thing, and he's racing, just like putting a good effort in.

20:21 If he's just like tempoing CIM and it's like I'm hitting these splits because it's like just this zone, fine, totally fine. If we're racing CIM two weeks out, bad idea. CIM, I also, yeah. This would be a good discipline test. I am nowhere near disciplined enough to do CIM as a workout. Like I wouldn't be able to do it.

20:44 I would absolutely start racing at some point because the energy, the fun, it's all there at CIM. This might be a really good discipline test for Ryan to run like, you know, 235. We'll just like throw a number out there. You know, Ryan's just like, you're running 235 flat. You're not going faster, you're not going slower, you're not letting anyone throw you.

21:08 That might be a really good discipline test for the discipline you need to run 200 miles in 24 hours.

21:17 Here is a vote for Ryan's patience in keeping the main thing, the main thing. So he raced Twisted Fork alure this year.

21:25 Yeah.

21:25 He he finished fifth place, about an hour behind the leader. I'm sure if he was, you know, keep prioritizing Twisted Fork, he probably wins this thing because a month later he goes and runs the fastest time ever by an American at Western States, breaks 14 hours. Exactly. So I I believe he I believe in Ryan's ability to compartmentalize, and I'm sure CIM is going to be that.

21:47 Yeah. So CIM's a good call as long as he's not racing it all out, in my opinion.

21:52 Let's uh quickly roll through golden trail stuff here. Um the final was in South Korea this past weekend. El Husin delivers a double Dominant performance claims his fourth victory of the season, third consecutive Golden Trail World Series title. On the women's side, Andrea Colbin's daughter delivers a spectacular performance, claims her first victory on the circuit, but it's Madalena Florea on the women's side who retains the overall Golden Trail World Series title.

22:18 She's had three victories in the season, two second place finishes from the five races that she contested. Fantastic. Any thoughts on anything you saw from Golden Trail this weekend?

22:30 I mean, I just wish it was a little bit easier to follow from the U.S. I mean, that's of course just like a big American bias. And like I it's it's like switched platforms a handful of times, and and because of that, I just kind of lost the will to like try to keep following it. Um the women's side seems to be slightly less predictable than the men's side.

22:55 Um the men's side, I don't the men's side's almost getting boring with how much like the main like three to four guys win. I mean that's just kind of how I've been viewing it. Um good racing, incredible running, but uh I don't know, is it is this a type of race series where it's like really, really hard to break into the top where you know you get invited to very all the races, get your travel comped, get your lodging comped.

23:30 I mean, those are all very helpful things. Um it seems like it's really hard to break into that like upper echelon of Golden Trail.

23:38 It used to be easier. I believe actually dating back to last year, it was a much easier, broader, more expansive tent of people that got invited. And then I think what happened was they traded all of those compensations uh in favor of a bigger, wider price purse. So they they they switched, they like moved their budget around.

24:01unknown Yeah.

24:01 But like here in Salt Lake, like for example, my buddy Garrett Corcran, who's a super strong runner, but maybe like not at the the very top of the heap for Golden Trail. Like he's he's someone, for example, who would get invited. Like someone who's won JFK and like dabbles a little bit in Golden Trail, but like isn't like a perennial series contender.

24:18 Like people like him who have really strong resumes, they would get invited and be supported.

24:24 Yeah, and it seems And also with it being a full series where the incentive is in doing a lot of the races. Not really possible to do that if you're not a professional, you know, professional in the sport. As a professional who's like decided to specialize in Golden Trail. Um Yeah, how much how much did you follow this season or the series this year?

24:50 I actually followed quite a bit. I am a huge fan of recaps. And I anytime Matt Now Post puts something up, I do the same thing. But I liked uh Golden Trail's speed, like speed to publish for their highlights. And so I followed those pretty religiously and got to know some athletes. I think they do a pretty good job at like the back, like for me, it's a great source of figuring out, you know, the backstories for a lot of these European-based athletes.

25:18 I love that Philemon and El Husin had an ongoing beef that they were basically almost coming to blows every single race. That was fun.

25:27 I did like that. Yeah, that's a that was entertaining, dramatic for sure.

25:31 Spe speaking of Philemon, uh, did you watch the press conferences in the lead up?

25:36 I saw some of the the Debo clips of basically everyone saying they want to run Western states. I mean, it was just like two, but um like is that really the biggest news that comes out of Golden Trail? Is that we ultimately are trying to run Western states? Doesn't that like undermine the whole Golden Trail series?

25:54 It's so interesting. It again, I think it's it demonstrates where the power and attention in the sport is that even while like the highlight of that discipline is on display, they are fielding questions about like when are you you know levering up in distance? And also it seems like they're eager to share those plans too.

26:18 Whereas I don't think you have we ever in our pre-race interviews for Western States, have we ever been like, yeah, so like when are you gonna go race sears and all? Like when are you thinking about dropping down in distance and you know doing a VK? Like when are you when? When are you doing it? Like you never asked that question.

26:31 Yeah, and I guess most sports are like that too. I mean, it's like you're driving. Like, are you ever gonna make it to F1? Like you're the best shifter cart driver in the world or the best dirt track driver in the world. And it's like you might be the best at that, but everyone's still always just gonna be asking you, like, so you ever drive an F1 car?

26:53 I will say this though, and we've been talking about this for a while, that one of the big debates in the sport has been uh, what is the most uh generalizable, commercializable product in our sport? And a lot of people have said, well, it's it's subultra, it's short trail or trail, however you want to brand it, because it's better for your attention span, it's shorter in duration, they've got all these built-in TV deals for distribution.

27:19 I still think, I still think, and I I think we're getting to a uh a fruition for this. I do believe that when the dust settles, it's gonna be these 200-mile adventure races and backyards. And I, because we were talking about like, you know, China being like the area for that next big event in the sport, but and I think it's part probably part of your content of the week thing.

27:40 I I think in the next few years we're gonna see more and more of these athletes being compelled by attention and money to go to these two other formats. Whether that's a good thing or not, I don't know. But I think that like that's where capitalism is gonna be sending people.

27:56 Totally. And you know, I'm always a good I'm a sucker for good storytelling. Um, and there's good stories that happen across Golden Trail, but you know, one of the like harps that I've had with like short trail, because they're like, yeah, it's the most packageable, it's the easiest for media, but then like a road marathon is much shorter than like the Golden Trail World Series.

28:20 That was two hours and 50 minutes for Al-Husine. Like marathon's two hours. Therefore, Golden Trail is worse than a marathon in terms of packaging the race, because at the end of the day, it's still just like athletes that are genetically better than us running really fast. And like that's also why watching a marathon is kind of boring because a 10K on the track is the same thing but shorter.

28:45 Like the 10K on the track, it's just the marathon minus the first 20 miles. That's better to package. Like, that's why in the Olympics, the race with the most viewership is the 100-meter dash. So then it's like, back to your point, I do agree that I think the races that are so different from traditional running, like backyard 200 milers, like those are the ones that gather this large fan base because it's different enough than just simply running hard from start to finish for a short amount of time.

29:21 For whatever reason, too, agree with all that, by the way. For whatever reason too, it seems like the people that are native to Backyard and even the 200-mile races, they have this, and maybe it's just a part of their personality makeup, they have this readiness to be entertainers and to think about the drama of it all.

29:41 Like I was, I just before hit record, I just watched this reel. Mark Dowdle's in it, and you know, he's he's referencing the fact that all these people over on the Australian side or something like, they just call me like a TikToker. Like, I'm not just a TikToker, like, I'm gonna go win this backward ultra.

29:56 You know, so like he has this like presence of mind to bring in uh like classic storytelling arcs around conflict and resolution, and like, can he do it? Can he rise above all the BS? And there's there's time to do that in these races, too. And there's time, but but also every single athlete in the sport has the opportunity to use the lead up to something however they want.

30:14 Whereas and it feels like maybe from what I've seen so far in in trail, uh, these athletes are largely masters of their craft, and culturally it's like you keep quiet, you stay humble, you you talk with your legs, with your athleticism, and like that's that. Whereas again, like the these other these longer races in these backyards, they seem more attuned to the social media era where it's like, yeah, you have to be a good athlete, you have to win races, but also like Yeah, put on a show.

30:44 Part of the special sauce is being like a P. T. Barnum type character and putting on a show.

30:48 And you don't, I think you can you can tap into that side of your personality when you're not having to intensely concentrate for a short period of time. Like, like I'm thinking like CIM marathon in six weeks. Like, there's not time to like mess around and do a first down dance like 10K into the race.

31:12 Like the race is too short, you're trying too hard, you have to just be running. But like 200 mile, you get to like chill out a little bit coming in and out of the aid stations, like chat with your friends. Like, there is that more relaxed nature, which then when we're thinking about it from a content creation standpoint, there's way more opportunities for just entertainment to exist outside of just like the physical competition of running.

31:39 Yeah. Also, thanks to John G, the official apparel partner of the show. Two things here. First, it's finally getting colder here in Salt Lake, at least in the early mornings and evenings. I'm starting to turn to warmer layers on my runs, specifically their Merino, repeat, long sleeve, and rover merino hoodie.

31:56 Check out both pieces at jongy.com forward slash singletrack and let them know that we sent you at checkout. The other piece here is we have a film coming out with them. They supported a video of our four-day fast pack of the Whites 100 Route in New Hampshire earlier this summer. That film comes out on the Single Track YouTube channel later this week.

32:14 Stay tuned. Finally, thanks to Raid Research, the official equipment partner of the show. Yes, I am in full-on training mode for the California International Marathon in early December, but I'm still taking Raid with me on many of my runs, specifically their LF2L belt. It has really come in handy on my weekend long runs where I need to carry all of my nutrition for two and a half to three hour stretches, but I also want to do so comfortably.

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32:58 Okay, Brett, we've got uh we're we're workshop in this segment. So if it if it if it works for future episodes, great. If it doesn't, we tried. I'm calling it keep cut fix. Okay. So you got to keep one of these, you got to cut one of these, and you got to fix one of them.

33:10 The first one is this is kind of like Kiss Mary Kill.

33:13 It's kind of like that. It's just more PG version.

33:16 We've we've already PG'd Kiss Mary Kill. Yes, we're gonna keep keep cut. Okay.

33:23 Keep cut. Keep keep keep cut fix. First one here, shared stop records in backyard. So what the Belgians did. The second is Golden Trail's finale scoring. And the third is Desert Solstice's prize structure. So Desert Solstice, they offer a world record bonus of 2K, which includes the win in the world record, a thousand just for the win.

33:42 Should it be more or less? Et cetera. So Desert Solstice prize structure, golden trail finale scoring, shared stop records in backyard, keep cut, fix.

33:52 Oh. Shoot. Okay. I was thinking that we were gonna keep cut, I was gonna say keep, cut, or fix for each each thing.

34:01 Oh.

34:02 Okay. So now you gotta keep one of these. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Um well, how do I keep cut fix the Desert Solstice Prize structure when there's like questions at the end of it?

34:16 So I I guess that's well, this was just me on our on our note sheet just giving you some things to brainstorm.

34:23 Then that's my thing, then that's my fix because it needs to be more.

34:30 Yeah.

34:31 I think there needs to be more money for a world record. I I love the idea of Desert Solstice, and it's always bummed me out that it hasn't like generated like I feel like I don't know, what are we looking five to ten years ago? It had pretty every every year it had like some pretty badass fields. And it hasn't quite had it the last few years, and I don't know why.

34:56 Because it like flat ultra running world records have continued to get broken in the last few years. Why are people not coming to Desert Solstice? It always seemed like such a great one to go to. Maybe maybe just adding a little boost in the prize purse a little bit, that could help.

35:22 Okay, so you're fixing that one.

35:24 Yeah. And then now after our chat of the the shared stop records in Backyard, now you've got me swinging more towards cut that. Even at a minimum, you coin flip or rock, paper, scissor over who's gonna stop two laps short and who's gonna go that one more lap. Like, there's at least that. Um, you know, I think I've talked about it on our long-run archives where a handhold finish for first should actually be zero first place finishers and they both tie for second.

36:05 And then there's no winners for that race.

36:08 And then their uh brand bonuses don't kick in, all that stuff. Like there's real consequences.

36:14 Yeah, yeah, because uh a handhold finish for the win ties you for first. And in my opinion, it's always I always thought it should be it ties you for second, not first, because first place is far too sacred for two people. So now after, you know, 30, 25 minutes of reflecting on the backyard ultra um finish and how you you know, I hadn't really considered that, you know, what you said, how it's just kind of like against the backyard spirit to just stop.

36:50 Yeah.

36:52 Now I'm thinking we cut, we cut the the shared record for the win. It might be like the rule is like you DQ, your country gets DQ'd if you do that. Now I'm like going fully in the other direction.

37:07 And you're keep so you're keeping Golden Trails finale scoring format.

37:11 Yeah, I actually am. Um Diamond League does a similar thing where you have your series champion or your season champion, and then you have your final champion. Um the one thing that makes it perhaps a little bit more interesting with Diamond League is because of the field sizes of a track race being, you know, either eight lanes or twelve if it's like a distance race, maybe fourteen if they did they need to squeeze in a Josh Kerr, a Jakob Ingebritson last minute.

37:42 It's not that many people. So there's a lot on the line for the regular season racing in regards to qualifying for the Diamond League final. We don't quite have that kind of mid-season race drama with the points, where it kind of seems like any of the people who are halfway decent at Golden Trail, like if you just do three or four of them, you're gonna be in, you're in the final.

38:07 Whereas for Diamond League on the track, they're like pretty like strategic and being like, I have to do this many races, I have to place this high, and like someone very good couldn't get knocked out because they're fighting for eight lanes. And when you have 15 different Diamond League meets and all the different athletes that can get in or bumped out, it creates a little bit more midseason drama.

38:32 That's why I like the two scoring. Um, like the the two different scores with the regular season score and then the diamond league individual like champion score. If if they could figure out how to make that a little bit more dramatic, I'm all for it. So that's why I'd like to keep it.

38:49 Before we close out, two other prompts we hear, Brett. First, we've got a couple, got some racing happening this weekend. Of the races happening, go inside those races, which athlete are you the most interested in following and why?

39:04 Dude, anytime Jim Walmsley lines up on a star line, I am interested in following it. Like, is that cliche and boring? Maybe. But has Jim's racing career been cliche and boring? Absolutely not. So whenever I understand how special it is to have a Jim Walmsley come through our sport in the years that I'm like very heavily following the sport.

39:34 So I'm not gonna take it for granted when he lines up to to run a race. Like we don't know when we're gonna get another gym in our sport. Like, and we've seen this in many other sports. Like, I put him in like the Kobe's, the Tiger Woods is of the sport, like the Tom Brady's, where it's like, dude, you don't like I hate Tom, I hate the Patriots so much, Finn.

39:59 You know that. But like I'm gonna watch Tom Brady play football because it's like, dude, this guy's so good at what he does. It's incredible. We're not gonna see another quarterback, like the chances of like another quarterback like that overlapping with him, so slim. Like it might be decades before we see another one.

40:18 So like, yeah. I might, I might have to set my alarm. I have no idea what time the race starts in terms of the US time zones, but I'm gonna be paying attention for sure.

40:31 What about you? We talked about this in our well, first of all, yes. I mean, it's it's almost it is probably impossible to disagree with that that choice. But we talked about this in our javelina preview. Thanks to Lee Yingling for pointing this out because she has a bit of an alias on all of the public-facing Reg platforms.

40:48 But Camille Heron. Nope, not Camille Heron. Sorry, run Camille and or just Camille. Camille is racing Javelina this weekend. Yeah. The the longtime former course record holder, second fastest time ever on this course, set in this decade, 14, very low. She is back racing. To say that her career has been tumultuous in the past three or four years is a wild understatement.

41:13 Talk about entertainment value. We were just talking about the backyarders and the 200 milers. She brings so much, in addition to talent, brings so much entertainment value to the sport. And I have, because all of her training is not posted publicly, I have no idea where she's at. So there's this amazing mystery, there's this amazing mystery that is hanging overhead of Javelina this coming Saturday.

41:36 There's not only a literal storm cloud over the race, there is a figurative, metaphorical storm cloud over Camille's potential on race day. And I cannot wait to tune into the Not Now Post livestream to find out where she's at.

41:49 Yeah, that's that's a great call out. Absolutely. Go check out the Havelina preview episode if you haven't listened to that yet. Um where in which Brett compares her to Seal.

42:00 I was just quoting super bad. But it seemed relevant.

42:06 Last thing here, content of the week. What's your content of the week? So I I sent this over to you a couple of days ago, and it was and this is I was like, dude, there's there's so many elements to this that I like, and is Sage Canada's Instagram announcement that he's gonna try and qualify for the last soul ultra, which uh we were I was just clarifying you, you were helping me like get this all sorted out before we started recording.

42:29 So Sage is going to do one of the qualifiers in hopes of I assume winning it, to then get him into the last soul ultra in the fall of 2027. And you had also let me know that he just did his first backyard ultra this past weekend.

42:47 And one.

42:48 And one. And one like I guess the follow-up question was well, how far did he go? It doesn't matter. He won. He's just you know, starting with, I think it was like, what was it? Did you say 36 laps?

43:04 Yeah, which uh 36 yards, which brings up a really interesting point. If you like you, if for for athletes in our sport who watched the team championships at Biggs and across the world and were inspired, and they're like, okay, like the individual championships are happening in 2027, how do I qualify?

43:21 One of the wild aspects of backyard is it's actually really hard to qualify in the year because you're reliant on going to a race where there's a strong enough field with a good enough number two runner to get you to the number of yards that puts you in the top 25 or 50 of the best backyards in the world to make the individual championship race at Biggs.

43:44 And that's because it's just a rule, like that's a one of the backyard ultra official rules where when second place taps out, first place can only go one more lap. And then it's over. So you're only one lap better than the second best runner, no matter what. But I always just like Sage has always been, I mean, he's always been pretty firm on a lot of beliefs, hate it or love it.

44:11 One of them is that he's like, I will race any surface, any distance. This is any surface, any distance. I love that Sage is doing it. You know, there's been so many haters on the internet telling Sage to do things like this, and like he's probably gonna throw himself into the lion's den of a very concentrated group of Sage haters.

44:34 But um I'm excited to see how he does and just like what what comes of it, because that's exciting to see, you know, a massive jumping of events. And I have no idea how ultimately good Sage is going to be. But one thing is at least across the running that he's done, he's been pretty good at all the different types of races that he's tried to do.

45:00 So as history would have it, he might actually end up being pretty good at backyard ultras.

45:07 My content of the week, uh, it's actually not content, I just didn't really know where to place this, so I figured I'd put it here. There's a guy uh who is making a transcon record attempt. His the project is called Breaking 42, Cameron Balzer. He is tr uh he's about a just under 1200 miles as of this afternoon into a cross-country record attempt.

45:30 He's aiming to beat not only Pete Kostelnik's time of 42 days, six hours and thirty minutes, but to break 42 uh in general, which I think is interesting because it's it's sub-six weeks. Okay. And uh yeah, so this is just for folks that are interested again in this like multi-day, multi-week stuff. I think this could be a fun thing to follow as he is uh let's see, how far is it across the country?

45:55 It's probably closer to 3,000 miles. So yeah, he's like a third of the way in, maybe a little over a third of the way. And so that's an interesting one.

46:02 Yeah, that's definitely far enough where if you're having like some problems, you've had them by now. I mean, I remember Pete had to take a day off. Like he had to take a full zero day, like a weekend, because he absolutely cooked himself in the first few days. Um fun fact about Pete's record, he was running for Hoka at the time.

46:18 He only used eight different pairs of shoes. I think it was eight, eight cliftons across the entire transcon, which for reference, like what was it, Carl Meltzer? When he did the AT, he used like 45 different pairs of speed goats. He like averaged over one pair of shoes per day. And Pete had like 600 miles per clifton.

46:41 But I just thought that was an interesting tidbit.

46:45 That's our weekend news. Brett, thank you so much again for uh your friendship and your service.

46:50 Happy to pinch it.