5 YRS AGO SMACKDOWN POST-SHOW: Keller & Lindberg on Lesnar-Reigns contract signing, Becky vs. Sasha, on-site reports from SD & Rampage

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1:35 Now, PW Torch brings you the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show.

1:44 On today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Thursday, October 15th, 2026, we jump back Five years to the October 15th, 2021 SmackDown post-show. I was joined by PW Torch's Nate Lindbergh, and we talked about Roman Reigns, Brock Lesnar contract signing, and whether Lesnar's just messing with Paul Heyman, or there's a real possibility of a secret Lesnar-Heyman alliance. Also, Sasha Banks against Becky Lynch, the Queen and King tournament semifinals, Edge, Seth Rollins hype, and more. We also had on-site correspondents who attended SmackDown and that night's Rampage. The SmackDown taping included a tribute to the troops special. All right, let's get to it. This is the Wade Kilder Post Show,

2:21 five years ago flashback. Well, Nate, it's quite the Friday night. We've got kind of an adrenaline rush of a head-to-head battle going on here with AW Rampage, at least for a half hour, going head-to-head with the last half hour, commercial-free, what a coincidence, of SmackDown featuring two mega segments. The contract signing with Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar. and the Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, uh, first one-on-one match between them in years. Uh, do you think we'd have gotten that bonus half hour, if not for, uh, for Tony Khan launching AEW and, and, uh, putting it on TNT on Friday nights?

3:00 Oh, I don't know. It's tough to say.

3:02 It's I liked what they put on for the, you know, the, uh, the last half hour here, but, uh, at the same time, like the contract, it's contract signing just felt so extended and dragged out. Um, I mean, nice little caveat, nice little, uh, like, uh, cherry on top at the end there with the Paul Heyman, Brock Lesnar, uh, um, you know, uh, reveal, but, um, but yeah, just, it seemed like it was like 10 minutes, just stretched out. Um, it wouldn't be surprised if people may have switched.

3:37 It's funny. As you said that, I thought you were being sarcastic. I thought it was like this really tight contract signing compared to what we mostly see because it was only about 10 minutes. You know, you had Reigns and Heyman come out. Heyman examined the contract. And in my mind, I'm watching this going, is Paul reading over a bunch of stipulations that he doesn't want Reigns to know exist because he's really working with Lesnar? Or is he making sure all the I's are dotted and all the T's are crossed to be sure that there's nothing that can be used against him by Lesnar? And I really enjoyed Lesnar just kicking his feet up at the table.

4:10 He's got not a care in the world, and he portrays that so well. When you're as badass as him and have as much money as him, I mean, he's always had an FU attitude, and now he has FU money to go along with the ability to say FU to all but 12 people in the world and kick their ass and not get your ass kicked. So, of course he has that attitude. And I just love the smirk and.

4:37 You know, when he scribbled the contract and just, like, didn't even look at it. And then Reigns chews him out. And Lester's like, I don't need to read it. I read it earlier. And I'm like, oh, okay, well, that's a good thing to say. And then he goes, with my advocate, Paul Heyman, I popped for that. I thought there was, I mean, I should have seen it coming.

4:54 But that was great. Honestly, Nate, I don't think there was a wasted 20 seconds in that segment. I thought, yeah, go ahead, yeah.

5:02 Sorry, the segment itself, like, no problem at all. It was the entrances, I think, that were dragged. And granted, with Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns, yeah, sure, you're going to get long entrance segments. But I was kind of taking note of how they were trying to utilize this extra half an hour. And the entrances were just a little over five minutes, which is what it is. But I'm kind of thinking to myself, okay, do I really– like, if I wasn't doing the show with you here tonight– Would I stick around just kind of through those entrances, or would I be flipping back and forth? And that was kind of where my head was with that. But as far as the segment itself went, I thought it was great. I completely agree with you with Lumberjack Lesnar

5:45 just not giving a care in the world.

5:48 I love the new look he's got. And since he's.

5:51 Come back, he's had that completely different attitude.

5:54 So, yeah, I'm completely in agreement with you there.

5:57 Yeah, and you know, the ring entrance is a big part of Reigns and his act. And Lesnar, you don't see very often. So I think they did okay, especially because it's like a long ring entrance, but you don't know it's going to be long until it's happening. You know what I mean? Like if you flip away, you're going to flip back because you want to see what's going to go on. I think with this contract signing, with all due respect to CM Punk and Matt Sidell, I mean, I think people want to see. If they are aware and watching SmackDown at all, They're going to want to see what happens here with Heyman Reigns and Lesnar.

6:32 I mean, if you're going to deliver a half hour to try to take a dent or put a dent into the viewership of Rampage, I thought that this was a very strong effort by WWE. And if this was just meant, let's set aside AEW because I don't want to over-focus on that. If this was, hey, let's get people excited for Crown Jewel, then I think it worked too.

6:56 You know what I mean? This idea that Cole is overtly playing into, which is can Reigns trust Heyman? Is Heyman really on his side? I mean, they're playing it up so much. I think Heyman is going to be on Reigns' side. And I think Lesnar's just mind-effing Heyman and trying to throw Reigns off. When you watch this, does it seem that's obviously the case? Because if it works out the other way, where Lesnar's really with Heyman and Heyman laughs at Reigns and Reigns goes, I should have seen it coming. I did see it coming. I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have let my guard down. All the pieces will fall into place on that also. Heyman has, even in his wording, been pretty careful not to deny anything.

7:35 You can't even call him a liar. He just sort of, in a roundabout way, denies it, but has that opening to say, well, I didn't explicitly say I wasn't doing stuff with Lesnar. Heyman's reaction is always to look at Reigns to see if Reigns believes Lesnar, but not really deny it.

7:51 Yeah, and that was exactly what I kind of got from that segment. With Paul Heyman's face... When Lesnar kind of revealed that he went over the contract with his advocate, Heyman, earlier in the day, that's exactly the expression that I took away from it. It was like he– it was almost a guilty expression, but he didn't– there was no actual evidence or– What am I looking for? There wasn't any sort of indication from Paul Paul Heyman that there that that was actually true and that he actually did sit down with Lesnar earlier in the day. So, yeah, I'm there with you as well. Like it could really go either way. I'm kind of I'm kind of on what you're saying, too, with Roman Reigns. I don't think he's I don't think he's going to end up siding

8:39 with Lesnar. Like, I'm kind of thinking he's probably going to stick with Reigns. This is kind of like my gut feeling. But again, like you said, if they did go that other way, all of the pieces would fall into place and it would feel like it, it would feel like an important story. I mean, Brock, um, Roman reigns, a big part of his act has been Paul Heyman, you know, and one of the things that, that I have said for a while now, um, I think I said this on, on a wrestling night in America, Greg parks, a few, few weeks or a month, a month or two ago, um, but like, he doesn't necessarily need Paul Heyman anymore in terms of his, his speaking ability. Um, yeah, I feel like that he could do without Paul Heyman, um,

9:21 and still, you know, feel like a big deal.

9:24 But at the same time, I do like the addition to it. Cause it kind of just makes it feel like, you know what?

9:28 Yeah.

9:29 Roman can talk.

9:29 Roman can be a, uh, his own advocate if he needed to be, but he has that, he has that extra caveat, that extra, um, Uh, just, he has that Paul Heyman, he's got Paul Heyman, that extra factor there kind of just makes it like, I'm too cool for school.

9:45 I don't need to talk. I got this guy to do it for me. So either way they go, I think he'll be okay.

9:50 And I think I'll still be on board with, with Roman reigns, uh, and, and the act. Um, but I am, I'm really intrigued to see where this goes and which way it plays out.

9:59 Uh, I'm enjoying Lesnar as a baby face so much, and I don't want to see Heyman as a baby face. So I just hope in the end, this actually strengthens a bond with Heyman and Reigns. I hope that they kind of tie a ribbon around this. It's clear by Thursday afternoon that Heyman was with Reigns and it, I want there to be a shift in the dynamic with Heyman and Reigns just a little bit, which is Heyman believing that this validates how much Reigns should trust him.

10:26 And I want Heyman, as a result, to maybe have just a little bit more of a spine when dealing with Reigns. And not to the point where it makes Reigns have to act subservient or where he emasculates him or shows him up or anything like that, but just a little more spring in his step. Like, all right, Lesnar, you gave it your best shot, but... I proved that I'm with Reigns. Reigns knows I was with him all along and that you were just messing with him. And now Reigns actually might feel foolish not trusting me because he feels foolish that Lesnar tricked him into not trusting me or at least doubting Paul a little bit. And so I think there's an opportunity coming out of Thursday to validate and strengthen the Heyman-Reigns bond, but also give

11:09 Heyman a little bit more of an edge because once he has Reigns' trust, I think Heyman can shift from being sort of that eager beaver, I need to please you and I'm going to look at you and admire you and study your every move and just aim to please you and have a little bit more of a chip on his shoulder about, I've got some experience here and I can help out. And that can lead to other, you know, a new chapter of a dynamic between them.

11:34 And that can happen whether or not Lesnar beats Reigns for the title. You know, Reigns can retain or Reigns can lose. But it can lead to a shift in the dynamic with Heyman and Reigns. So I hope they keep them together. I think they will. I think Lesnar playing this role of a man of few words, totally without a care in the world, is the Lesnar I want to see. And I don't know how often we'll see him between now and WrestleMania. But this works for me of Lesnar as a lone guy. And there's just so much more to do with Reigns and Heyman. I don't want to see them break them up after just a year.

12:04 Yeah, no, I definitely hear you.

12:05 And with Brock Lesnar right now, this is the most I've actually enjoyed Brock Lesnar ever. probably since he's come back to WVL, maybe not since he's come back when he first came back, it was like, I was like, okay, cool.

12:18 Beast is back.

12:19 And it was, it was cool to see that gimmick, but maybe, maybe since the whole suplex city thing, this is really the most excited I've been about Brock Lesnar. So I'm, I'm, I am, I don't really want to see, you know, see them change it too much, but, but yeah, we'll see obviously what happens.

12:36 I'm looking forward to it.

12:37 I was kind of just ready to, for Lesnar to go away. You know, I mean, I, I didn't get a lot out of his act, um, for, for quite a while. I, other people still did and that's fine. Um, I did not. Um, I thought that it, it ran out of steam and it was played out. And so this is a really fun new chapter for Lesnar too.

12:59 And that's kind of why I'm anxious to see, I mean, I've, I've really enjoyed Heyman and, and, um, Reigns the last, you know, 12, 13, 14 months. I just, Kind of want to see something new. You know, I want to see them take, and because they're so good at what they do, I want to see them move to the next chapter. Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial free. A nice streamlined listening experience. pwtorch.com slash go VIP for full details on a commercial free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme. And also unlock nearly four decades of archives and access our ad-free website with VIP exclusive content, pwtorch.com

13:41 slash govip. Your time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip. Let's pause there, Nate, and introduce ourselves, and we'll get to some calls. We have an on-site correspondent coming up, too. I'll talk about that. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show for Friday, October 15th, 2021. I'm Wade Keller, the host of the program, the editor, founder, publisher. I want to have more titles than Tony Khan does when he introduces himself. CEO, head of creative. I'm head of creative. I'm, I'm, I don't know.

14:19 Yes.

14:20 Yes.

14:20 Of Pro Wrestling Torch. That is me. And also the host of the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows and podcasts and Handful of VIP exclusive podcasts like the daily Wade Keller Hotline, post pay-per-view roundtables, everything with Rich Fan and also The Fix with Todd Martin. We had a marathon session around five hours yesterday. Was it a three-hour mailbag and then two hours of current events? And we went in-depth on it. Really, I joked with Todd. One of the email questions we got, one of the mailbag questions should have been like, given to us at the beginning of the pandemic, if wrestling shut down, we could have done an eight week series and fill time on this.

15:00 It's the kind of thing I thought we would do if wrestling did shut down early in the pandemic, which was how would wrestling be different if Vince McMahon never existed or the rock or Eric Bischoff in more names. It was a fascinating discussion. We got carried away. Um, I urge everybody to go become a VIP member, subscribe and, uh, and listen to that. But it was, it was a robust mailbag, lots of fun topics. And of course, um, Todd and me giving each other a hard time, um, uh, constantly, uh, or not constantly, but frequently giving each other a hard time. So, um, check that out, uh, pwtorch.com slash go VIP. So lots of things you're missing out on by not being a VIP member and, uh, things just pick up what a,

15:43 what a season we have here. Sometimes it feels like a slow season. Um, when we get into October, November, other than survivor series, and sometimes that feels anticlimactic, but I'm watching Junior Dos Santos in a wrestling match right now against Chris Jericho in the background. It's like, what is happening here? There's so much going on. We've got Full Gear around the corner, Crown Jewel Thursday, Survivor Series after that with who knows what main event matches. So a lot of fun stuff going on. And Nate Lindbergh is my co-host today of the PWT Talks NXT program and also does hits and misses and sometimes fills in for Kelly Wells covering the TV show. Nate, welcome to the show. We have to get in when we talk

16:21 about what a big season this has been. It's just a brief, some brief thoughts from you on NXT 2.0 for those who have not been checking out your conversations. That is added to the list of a lot of cool things going on in wrestling this season.

16:35 Oh yeah.

16:35 And the G1, that too. Not quite as, not quite top level G1, but still a fun, fun time of year. So Nate, welcome to the co-host chair.

16:45 Yeah, no, thank you very much for having me. This is a, a, glad to be here.

16:49 Um, like, like Wade said, I do the, uh, NXT hits and misses, uh, which I usually try to have out, uh, as soon as NXT is over, if not the next morning. Uh, and I also am one of the co-hosts, PWT Talks NXT. Um, but yeah, I, uh, did, did, were you asking for my thoughts on NXT?

17:06 No, we'll save that till later.

17:08 All right.

17:08 We don't want to make people wait on hold. Um, if they're on hold now.

17:12 Yeah.

17:13 Uh, but we will, we will, uh, sneak that in as, as we go here. Um, Yeah, so speaking of which, let's give out the phone numbers. We have open phone lines here, so if you're listening to us while watching Chris Jericho hit a line salt on Scorpio Sky, because it's syncing up with what's happening here, give us a call.

17:29 347-215-8558.

17:33 That's 347-215-8558. And when you call, be sure to push 1 on your keypad. That flags you on our switchboard as wanting to be brought onto the show. You can always find our live stream by going to pwtorch.com. And at the top and bottom of my TV report covering either Raw, Dynamite, or SmackDown every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday night, just look for Keller's TV report in the headline. I've got a link, a direct link to the live stream that starts five minutes or so after the TV show's end.

18:01 You can also look on our Twitter account at PWTorch. I almost always remember to put a link to the direct stream in. Oh, JDS just took his first slam through a wrestling table. Or a table, not a wrestling table, but It's a wrestling table. And so you can find the link there to the live stream, or you can just go to wadekellerpostshow.com and navigate to the live feed.

18:23 So lots of ways to join us live. Most of you download the show later. And I get that. Makes sense. And we appreciate you doing that. If you're a VIP member, this is a reason enough to subscribe. You get the downloads of the post shows and podcasts that I host with ads removed, with the in-house plugs and in-house ads removed. Um, it's just a nice streamlined listening experience. One of many perks along with 30 years of archives of cool back issues and, and, uh, hundreds of radio shows from the nineties, whatever era of wrestling you like, you can dive in and in here, hear or read what I had to say about it and our whole team. All right. So let's, uh, let's get the phone call. Oh, our email is also open.

19:02 That's the last thing. Wade Keller podcast at PW torch.com. Wade Keller podcast at PW torch.com. Let's uh, Oh, there's going to be a distraction. Unbelievable.

19:13 All right.

19:13 I'm going to stop. looking at the other screen and focus.

19:16 All right.

19:17 I'm doing the same thing.

19:20 It's, it's, I imagine if someone's listening, it's kind of annoying. I mean, it's one thing to, you know, mention Junior Dos Santos is wrestling Jericho, but I don't need to do like random, random outbursts. Like I'm sitting here on a couch with friends. All right. Let's, let's go to our first call and we'll go to Jay from Michigan.

19:38 I know Jay, you were on hold recently and had to drop off. So I'll take you first here. Jay, welcome to the show. What do you think of SmackDown tonight?

19:46 Thanks for having me, Wade, and thank you for acknowledging the fact that I did have to drop off. You know, things are different now. I was like a star in the pandemic era, and now I just kind of get bumped to the bottom of the car, man, but it's okay. I still, I love you, Wade, and I love this show, and I will always try to call and get through, man, when I get an opportunity.

20:09 Hey, Jay, I always tell people you can email me and you can email me during the show. And if you say, you know, please move me to the front of the line, you know, obviously we're not going to let you just jump ahead of people every week, but some people are going to just listen to the whole show anyway, live and others just only have a few minutes and want to contribute. So I encourage anyone if they want to call and be on the show, but there's sort of, you know, a small window because you got to get to bed or other things going on.

20:33 Always feel free to just email and say, you know, if possible, take me sooner. And we can move you ahead because, you know, sometimes the order we take calls is more arbitrary than set in stone.

20:43 Yeah, I will definitely keep that in mind. The last time I did call, though, man, you kind of put me on like one of those, it's like that pay-per-view card where you kind of stack all your big matches on the back end because you put me.

20:55 In some really good companies.

20:56 So I did appreciate that.

20:58 Sure thing.

20:59 Nevertheless, man, I will get into what I felt.

21:03 Of the show tonight.

21:04 I didn't get to watch a lot. I'm going to go back on my DVR and go through it probably after I, you know, get off the phone or maybe, you know, listen to a little more of you guys. But, you know, the first thing I really want to say is, man, to comment on something you said about, you know, kind of being tired of Brock at a certain point. you know, during his previous run. Like I, for one, I want him dudes, man. And like, I just love Brock Lesnar.

21:30 He can do no wrong in my eyes. I don't care what he does. Whenever he's around, whenever his presence is on my television screen, I can't get enough of the guy. He's just such a freaking attraction, man. So the way he is, I'm actually surprised at, you know, how well he's playing in his babyface role. That, I will agree with you, man. I am truly enjoying him.

21:52 Just like, to me, it's kind of obvious that he's sort of like messing.

21:56 With Roman, but.

21:58 I just, I enjoy it, man. It just seems like he's having so much fun in this role. And, you know, I'm looking forward to, you know, Crown Jewel. And I typically, I'm typically pretty upset that they put so many big matches on this pay-per-view that's usually.

22:14 Of little consequence.

22:15 Just, you know, kind of like a dog and pony show for the Saudis and the blood money and all of the bad things that we associate with it, which is pretty accurate. But, I got to admit, I'm looking forward to it, man. Like, you know, the stories of this Brock Roman thing, it really got me excited. I'm really excited about the women's triple threat match to see how that ends. I kind of was like wrestling back and forth with thinking maybe Sasha will win and take the title of SmackDown. And, you know, they'll figure out something else for Becky on Raw. But Becky taking that pin tonight, I can't really see her take another pin.

22:49 I mean, obviously she can pin Bianca Belair and win it, but... You know, Becky ain't taking another L, I don't think, so.

22:56 Admit it, you love Nick Barbatti when he co-hosts with me on the Wade Keller Post Shows. Well, now you can listen to him every week on the Nicky's Club, a VIP exclusive podcast. Here's Nick to tell you more.

23:05 Hey, wrestling fans. It's Nick Barbatti, and I'm back with the Nicky's Club, the place where the family of Nicky's comes together for big laughs and sharp takes on WWE. From WrestleMania rumors to surprise returns, I got you covered. The Nicky's Club, where the wrestling feels like the coolest club in town.

23:19 Nick Barbatti wants to be part of your pro wrestling life every week, so... Why not let him? GoVIP. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP for full details on signing up. We're compatible with Patreon, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and just about any other iOS or Android app out there. You can also stream directly from our ad-free VIP website. The Nicky's Club, waiting for you every week at PWTorch VIP. Nate, Nate, yeah, Becky took the loss. My criticism isn't that Becky lost.

23:52 I mean, no one had to lose. But they really had to have someone lose. I mean, you can't do another non-finish. And so if you're going to book this match, try to draw a rating and take a chunk out of Rampage's viewership in the process. And, boys, it's going to be interesting when those numbers come in to see how much less Rampage does in the first 30 minutes than usual relative to what it does in the second 30 minutes. There's going to be some math to kind of make sense of it. and put it in perspective because, you know, with other sports competition out there, you know, the numbers might have been down anyway, but it is more how does that second 30, is there more, does the second 30 minutes actually draw more than the first

24:29 30 because SmackDown took so many viewers away or is it the same pattern and they just have separate viewers? And I think WWE is curious about this too. And that might've been one of the reasons they did this is they want to know what kind of overlap there is. So if they're going to put Sasha and Becky out there, that's a big match. You can headline a WrestleMania with that if you build it up. They put that out there.

24:49 You have to do a finish. And having Becky lose, you know, I mean, they didn't want either wrestler to lose, but Becky can absorb losing. But they did do, you know, essentially a distraction finish. And I guess the issue that I had more than any other with the finish is I don't like dumb babyfaces. And Bianca Belair knew Becky didn't intend to hit her. She was standing there. She saw everything play out. Becky was clearly flying towards Sasha, and Sasha moved, and the forearm hit. Bel Air. So what I'd like is for the announcers to say, is for Bel Air to get back on commentary and say, okay, I'm going to try to calm myself down. But you know what? Becky could have stopped herself and she didn't.

25:30 I know she could have and she didn't. And then see an opportunity to then interfere, but kind of lay it out there that it's not that she thought Becky did it like on purpose from the start, but plant the seed with viewers. We know Becky could have stopped herself and she didn't. In fact, she kind of gave a little extra at the end And now she wants to deny she tried it. And I think there's a way to establish that. So Bianca doesn't just look like the usual dumb baby face who doesn't understand, you know, an inadvertent, inadvertent contact. So that was my critique. Nate, what was your read on that? Do you think I misread it or did you read it different? What do you think?

26:06 No, I'm pretty accurate to what, pretty similar to what you were saying, to be honest with you. I, I'm, I'm also in that same camp. I can't stand a dumb baby face. uh, especially when it's so glaring like that. Um, yeah, the countless, countless times in, in just in wrestling in general, not just WWE, but wrestling in general, where there's just something that happens like that, where the baby face clearly either should see what's going on or, or, or, or whatnot. But, uh, um, yeah, that, that was kind of what, you know, how I took it away from it here as well. Um, with it's like for, you know, Becky, Becky Lynch, uh, Since turning heel, her character hasn't resonated with me nearly as much as

26:47 the man did.

26:48 I still think she's doing.

26:50 A good job, but the character just, I don't really care about the character as much as I cared about the man.

26:58 However, she's still a big star.

27:00 A lot of people still obviously do care about her and want to see her in action. I think this was a pretty good match, if not a pretty damn good match, To throw on in this particular spot opposite Dynamite, it had me hooked the entire I think was just shy of 20 minutes. Yeah, actually, I'd have to look at your report. I don't have it up right now, but I think it was just shy of 20 minutes.

27:24 And it hooked me in.

27:26 I was not.

27:28 And I think this kind of ties back into what I was talking about with like the ring entrances for Lesnar and Roman Reigns. I think it's because that match just flew by for me. Cause I got so into it. Uh, especially, you know, we haven't seen them wrestle for a while. We haven't, you know, in, in Becky, um, Becky and singles action. It's, it's, I wouldn't say it's a rarity, but it's, uh, since she's coming, since she's been back, it seems just kind of nice to see her in singles action here. So I, uh, I really got into it.

27:54 And if the match flew by for me, um, I think that Bianca Belair, um, kind of similar what you're thinking what jay was uh jay was talking about at the beginning here i'm wondering if she's in the match to eat the pin um it would make i hate to say it would make sense because she ate the she ate the pin 26 seconds it's kind of in a way believable to me that she might be able to or she may you know uh lose there but um at the same time i don't want to see that too i want to see bianca belair i almost want to see her win the belt back i feel like Where she lost it in 26 seconds, for me anyway, it really took some of the shine off of her.

28:37 She's kind of gotten it back since.

28:39 But I want to see her win it back and kind of almost reclaim that title that she lost so quickly. But that's kind of where I'm at with it.

28:50 I think Belair's got to win it back because otherwise you're affirming– the message that a lot of fans received that I don't think was intended or as foreseen as it should have been by Becky and management. You know, as Becky talked about this past week, in an interview, if she had beat Bianca in 12 or 22 minutes, well, she's better than Bianca. They had a match and she got the win. But by winning the way she did with an unexpected cheap shot, the idea was to protect Bel Air. What WWE, Becky, and enough people in power didn't take into account is that people still resented the Lesnar-Kofi Kingston finish. And they saw a racial connotation here, which is you're a big star until the real big star shows up. And then you got to know your

29:33 place and we're going to put you in your place. And we're going to do it decisively with disregard for how your fans feel and the legacy that you've been building up and the body of work that you've created as champion. So they had that baggage and they just misjudged. They didn't see it or they disregarded it too easily.

29:52 So clearly Belair's got to win and be champion again based on the way that she lost or else it's affirming that it didn't matter how she lost, she's a level beneath her. There's a million ways you can tell that story, and I don't have a timeline on it or a way it has to happen other than it needs to happen sometime between now and, say, WrestleMania. And we just got to see where things shake out with the different brands and the different alignment on the brands and let everything settle in there. Jay, let me throw back to you for... Any follow-up on that or another topic specific from SmackDown that you want us to react to?

30:31 I will follow up on the last bit about the Bianca Belair and Becky Lynch situation. I can initially say that there was a bit of outrage when it initially happened, but I think that it was very smart booking because You know, the whole thing to me has gotten Bianca over so much more as a baby face. I feel like she's really stepped her game up, and I think Becky has brought her up as a heel. But, you know, with Kofi and Brock, it was just kind of obvious in the aftermath of it that they just had no more use for Kofi Kingston. And, like, he was really just– they just kind of were forced to put the title on him, and Brock showed up, and it's like, okay, now.

31:18 We can really get it to who we wanted to have it to.

31:20 With Bianca, I think that there is still going to continually be a push for her, and they still see her as a top star. So, you know, she's not really buried by the way she lost because they told a very good story behind it. And with Becky, like, entrenching herself as a heel, especially against Bianca Belair, I think that it makes the most sense.

31:43 And even if.

31:43 Bianca Belair eats a pan at Crown Jewel, again, we can always go back to, well, Crown Jewel, It matters, but it really doesn't matter, even though it's built up this time. It matters, but it doesn't matter. And she's going over to Raw anyway. So I think she's going to have a really good run on Raw. And, you know, I think she's fine. I think her character will be fine.

32:04 And I love what Becky's doing at the heel, man, because the whole idea of what the man character became was, you know, birthed by, like, what she's doing right now is what really kind of got her in position to be the man. So I think that eventually we'll get to that point where she is entrenched as that baby face character again. But I personally feel like if they would have brought her back in a baby face role, because a lot of people seem to think that, oh, they made a mistake by turning her heel. She was over as a baby face. But people turn on you pretty quickly. And if we really look at Typically with the WWE story, when they bring a babyface back who's triumphantly coming back, whether it be Daniel Bryan when he

32:50 came back from his injury, Edge coming back last year, they seem to kind of go kind of cold as a babyface relatively quickly. And it wasn't until Bryan turned heel that he really picked up steam for me. And Edge, although he didn't turn heel, His story in Russell, like the story that they were telling between him and Roman, was kind of cold. And then when they interjected Brian and Edge, you know, no pun intended, got his edge back, you know, and got into more of a heel bag, I think that his character took back off so he could become that baby face that he needs to become.

33:28 I think if Becky would have came back as a baby face, she just kind of would have grew stale relatively quickly because I think she was growing stale you know, prior to her exiting. And I just think that they made the right decision, man. So, you know, that's really my take on that. Like I said, I did not see a whole lot of SmackDown.

33:45 I'm going to go back and watch it.

33:46 So I don't want to eat up too much time. But, you know, I did want to call and say what's up and, you know, throw my little two cents in on a few things.

33:56 Yep.

33:56 Okay.

33:57 Sounds good, Jay. We'll move on to people who saw more of the show and get additional thoughts. But appreciate it.

34:03 Of course, man.

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34:48 347-215-8558.

34:49 We'll go next to Nick in Brattleboro. Nick, thanks for holding. Welcome to the show. What did you think of SmackDown tonight?

34:57 Hi, Wade. Hey, Nate. How you doing? On the women's match, I thought... The in-ring action was great and such. And, okay, you know, a slight distraction finish, you know, I can deal with it. The one thing I think is because of the time constraints they had, in any other time, Becky would have gone after Bianca and they would have had a brawl. I know they had to get them out and get the table set up and the contract signing, but it's kind of one of those things that WWE's consistency in what happens just doesn't make any sense. It's like Becky just took that and didn't go after her. uh...

35:55 i think i'm wondering is that they ought to be charlotte so that then she can take the the the pin from sasha and sasha gets the the the smackdown title and then the titles are all in the right.

36:09 Place yeah i need have you thought through different scenarios and do you like the one that just uh.

36:15 laid out that that was something that that uh... did come to my mind uh... shortly after i stopped talking a little bit ago but no, it does make the most sense. Like, uh, if she, if she wins a belt from Charlotte, she kind of, she gets her win back. I mean, it's clearly, it's not the same opponent obviously, and it's not the same title, but she has a title and she's still, you know, she's still considered a champion.

36:38 And so it kind of, kind of gives her that, uh, it's, I don't, it kind of cancels out.

36:43 That loss that she had, I guess. Um, and then, you know, as, as he said, uh, you know, she.

36:48 Can eat the loss, uh, you know, eat the pin and the triple threat, um, and still kind of come out on top and all the, all the things kind of do fall into place there.

36:55 Um, so that, that's certainly something I.

36:58 Feel like she, that's probably the most likely scenario because it's like for what we were just talking about with, um, with Bianca Belair, she kind of, she needs to win.

37:09 She needs to get that.

37:10 It needs to have some sort of a win to, to really kind of give her that shine back. Um, And I think that's probably what makes the most sense to me anyway. Even if she doesn't necessarily eat the pin in the triple threat, which, again, I hate to see Sasha eat it too, but it is what it is. But even if that was the case, winning against Charlotte, bringing that Raw title back home, bringing it around her waist, should definitely improve her stock.

37:48 I would be all for that.

37:50 Nick, back to you.

37:52 I just can't see any other reason why they're having the match. The one thing that I found interesting about this supersized SmackDown is I'm a little scared that they might... I know they can't go past 10 on Fox. The Local affiliates would just go absolutely ape and ape blank because that's their main moneymaker is their 10 o'clock news.

38:26 And as much as Fox, they need their affiliates, and so they can't piss them off. But I hope they're not thinking, oh, well, let's put a half hour onto FS1. afterwards, and that would still piss off the affiliates, but anyway.

38:45 I am not, I will say I'm not too worried about that, because I think WWE needs to, and I could be looked back on as being very naive in saying this, but I think WWE knows what they need right now more than anything is SmackDown on broadcast, Fox Network, to be as strong as possible. And when it starts to feel like a pre-show or a lead-in to a half hour on cable that a lot of viewers don't even have, you're going to start Spending two hours on broadcast TV advertising something that a sizable percentage of your audience doesn't even have access to. You just start burning goodwill.

39:19 It gets confusing. And I just I think they know better than that. I don't think a half hour or an hour on FS1 for the rights fees is worth watering down the good thing they've got. going on SmackDown. You would hope lessons have been learned from, you know, what happened to Raw by going to three hours. Yes, they got a lot of extra money, but did they not lose at least that much money in other ways because they burned out the product and hurt the Raw brand and caused people to not want WWE Network because Raw is such a slog to get through so many weeks.

39:49 And then you also have SmackDown. So I don't think they're going to do it. I think this was what it was, which is we're on FS1. We want to learn. How many people can we keep from watching Rampage if we are head-to-head? But I think it is a one-off. I really do. I don't see a scenario where it's anything but sort of a one-off here, Nick.

40:09 Yeah, oh, I totally hope so because the two hours of SmackDown was just like Raw. It was mostly talking segments. boring talking segments, you know, what five minutes of, of Corbin and, and, and, and Moss laughing. I just, it was, it was painful to watch. I was actually watching the, the YouTube on my, on my iPad while it was on to watch the Daniel Bryan, uh, Minoru Suzuki match, which was kind.

40:43 Of cool actually.

40:45 But, um, One other thing I just wanted to bring up is Edge and Seth. I think the match is going to be good. I'm not going to see it, but I think the match is going to be good. But Edge has to do something else. It's all of his stuff with Randy. with Roman, with Daniel Bryan, with Roman again, with Seth now, is he starts out as the bike salesman from Washington, and then he gets a little bit mad, and then he becomes crazed, eye-popping. It's a good promo, but it's just he's done this now for a year and a half, and it's just getting...

41:40 Either go completely heel and be nuts or figure something else out.

41:45 Yeah, I'm ready for Edge to go to a different place. I mean, this wasn't a bad promo. given the circumstances of everything, I just don't want to see Edge in this mode anymore. It's a fine mode, but it's just too much to continue on beyond this. And I think they're going to. I think Edge is going to be on Raw, and he's either going to be a heel opposite of Big E, in which we're going to get a different side of Edge's personality, other than sitting in the ring, fuming mad, frothing at the mouth, and doing the submitted-for-any-consideration type promos constantly. And I want Edge to...

42:19 I want WWE and Edge to realize you don't have to have every performance be that climactic scene of a play or a movie. Like, just be a wrestler. Just blend in and be Edge. And that's enough. Not everything has to be so heavy. This is fine. I'm not ripping at all on Edge's performance here. He hit the right tone for what happened with Seth invading his house and Seth's annoying personality. But it is time for Edge to move to another place. And, you know, I talk about wanting to see the next chapter in Reigns-Hayman. I want to see the next chapter in Edge as a guy who's not a special attraction. I can't believe he's here after years away. This is bonus time, but he's probably a part-time special attraction. No, no, he's just in.

43:03 You tune in every Monday to see him. And whether he's a more cheerful babyface because he got something out of his system beating Seth at Hell in a Cell, Or something at Hell in a Cell, set him off and turn him into a heel. Whatever it is, I just want to see a different chapter. Nate, how about you?

43:18 The fiend shows.

43:20 Up.

43:21 No.

43:23 No.

43:23 I'm kind of there with you.

43:25 I've even said it on this very show in the past.

43:28 I'm a huge Edge fan. I'm a massive Edge fan.

43:32 Back when his initial vignettes appeared back in 98 or whatever, I thought it was the coolest thing as a kid. Um, so he's always been like one of my guys, but I have to agree. I kind of would like to see him go to a bit of a different, well, all of his promos while in a bubble, like if you just look at the individual promo, they're always great.

43:52 They're always on point, very, uh, energetic and passionate. Um, and all of that, they, they kind of hit the same beats. They definitely do. And he always kind of gets. angry and he starts yelling towards the end of them. Um, which, you know, I personally, I do like them, but, uh, it kind of does, it gets a little bit repetitive and he has been doing it, you know, for the majority of the time he's been back. Um, and you know, a lot of the, a lot of the feuds kind of similar, you know, a lot of similar beats, you know, to, you know, touching on, you know, his family and things like that. I think, uh, I think like Randy Orton and Seth Rollins now, and, uh, I think Roman hit on, on some of his family stuff. Um, so it's just

44:32 kind of like, I would like to see something different. Like for example, the brood stuff that he brought back, like that, that was a little bit different. That didn't touch on, uh, you know, his family and things like that. It was just, it was kind of going back into an older. Well, I thought it was awesome. I loved the brood back in the day. Again, I was a kid, but it was, you know, um, so I thought it was cool to see that, but it was, it was different.

44:56 And it was something that, uh, um, he hadn't obviously done in years. So I would like to see him go to something a little bit different. But him and Seth Rollins here, I'm still in it.

45:10 I haven't grown tired of this feud yet.

45:13 Matter of fact, I was trying to think of who it was that he did the brood entrance against earlier in the night.

45:18 I Googled it.

45:19 I couldn't remember. I'm like, it can't be Seth Rollins. It doesn't seem like it's been going on that long, but.

45:24 Obviously it was.

45:26 But one thing that I do want to just point out here is I absolutely love the fact that they're using a Hell in a Cell at a non-Hell in a Cell pay-per-view. That they're actually using this as the way it should and kind of almost is a blow-off to– assuming it's a blow-off to a feud. But just kind of a– or if not a blow-off, but a major plot point in their feud. But not just because it is a time of the year on the calendar to bring out the Hell in a Cell.

45:58 So I do– appreciate that anyway.

46:01 Yeah, I totally agree with that there. The Reigns, Heyman, Lesnar, they signed the contract, and then Adam Peirce, whether it was Reigns or someone said, well, go ahead, Adam, tell them what's in the contract. And Peirce goes, I'm not going to tell them. You tell them. And then it got lost in the shuffle, of course. So I don't know whether Raines put a whole bunch of steps in there.

46:31 And that's what Paul said. Everything is as you wanted it, my tribal chief. And just further on on that, I've suspended my disbelief in this, and that's fine. Brock is playing with Roman's head and with the Paul Heyman stuff and such. But part of my little voice in the back of my head is going, if this was real...

46:55 The last thing Lesnar would be doing would be letting Roman know that Paul's on his side. So it's kind of like, I firmly believe, like you guys mentioned, that Paul's going to end up with Roman. Roman needs Paul because he doesn't want to have to deal with Pierce and DeVille. He sends Paul off to do that. So I think Heyman needs to stay with Reigns, and I hope he does.

47:23 My thinking on Lesnar messing around is what we're supposed to think is that they are intentionally choosing to overtly say what they're doing so they can rub it in Reigns' face later. We told you. And you still didn't see it coming. Like, I see that as the next level mind effing. You know what I mean?

47:51 So, anyway.

47:53 Yeah, but he said that he knew, that you knew, and I knew that it wasn't poison, therefore it was poison. Exactly, yeah. Princess Bride reference there.

48:04 One of my favorite movies of all time.

48:07 Oh, it's great. It's such a good movie. It is such a good movie. You killed my father. Prepare to die. Anyway, if Chris calls in, tell him I'm down for doing the podcast with him.

48:21 So.

48:24 Oh, he mentioned it last week. So tell him I'm down with that.

48:29 Cool.

48:29 Cool.

48:30 And with that, I will leave you, I will leave you to it. And, uh, always great. Listen. And Nate, I just want to let you know, I don't watch NXT. I use PWT talks NXT to kind of keep, keep abreast. And you guys do a fabulous job.

48:46 Hey, glad to hear it, man. Glad to hear it. Appreciate your listening.

48:50 Take it. Take, take a lot of credit for that. I think, um, You three are just fabulous. So I'll leave it there. Have a good night. Have a great weekend. And talk next week.

49:01 Awesome, Nick. Always great to hear from you. Thank you.

49:03 Thank you very much, Nick.

49:05 All right. I want to let everybody know we do have an outside correspondent who plans to call in in just a bit. They're actually taping Tribute to the Troops as we speak. So we'll have a little bit of detail on that. on that hopefully coming up here. So we'll give you a spoiler alert. But Ed was in attendance, and we'll see if it seems like something worth going on our way to watch. Hopefully everything goes smooth and he is able to give us a call to talk about what it's like in the building. I'm definitely curious about it.

49:40 I'm Chris Maitland.

49:41 I'm Justin McClellan.

49:43 We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, a podcast of independent wrestling.

49:46 Every week, Chris and I review a different show or talk about important topics from around the indie wrestling world.

49:52 Learn about the hot underground stars and the future main eventers before anyone else. You can reach us at TorchCoastToCoast at gmail.com and me on Blue Sky at Mind of Maitland.

50:01 You can reach me at Blue Sky at Justin McClellan.

50:04 Find the show on your PWTorch Daily Cast podcast feed Search PWTorch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

50:12 Also, stream the latest shows on PWTorch.com.

50:23 Okay, let's keep rolling through calls. I see Javier has called up. He attended Rampage. Is he at Rampage? We'll talk to him in a bit.

50:31 Oh, wow.

50:31 Yeah, but also Sean from Tennessee. We will go first here to Kyle in Baltimore, though. Kyle, thanks for calling. We talked a bit about the women's situation. I'm assuming, perhaps not safely, we'll see, that you want to chime in on what we saw with Sasha and Becky tonight in particular.

50:48 Yeah, but before I get to that, I wanted to talk about the Rollins promo itself.

50:51 Oh, good, yeah.

50:52 I kind of piqued my interest about stuff. So, because I learned about Hell in a Cell 2019 itself because it also relates to Becky and Sasha too because it took away from that match because that match was great. You know, that Hell in a Cell actually, Becky and Sasha, and because of that, of Ron's care after from Hell in a Cell and being what happened there, it just completely damaged the entire situation with Becky and Sasha.

51:27 But I just.

51:29 Enjoyed what he had to say about that and then saying that Hell in a Cell, he said it was kind of like my... kryptonite or something is like my own hell of being in that in that type of uh match so and so that was interesting and that made me just thought that is that you thought that you know about what even what's the matter with sasha becky was like and that was a great match dude they have great chemistry i really enjoy this is why they're both my favorites i cannot pick either for either one of who i like more because they're both my favorite um but yeah i just thought i just thought what ron didn't say about that because like Everybody keeps talking about how bad that match was that no one's

52:06 ever talked about. I heard no one talk about Becky and Sasha at all because that was like an afterthought because of the whole situation with Rollins.

52:15 So do you.

52:16 Think with having, because of Hell in a Cell, is it fair to say that Becky and Sasha was just lugged out, just was a complete afterthought because of the whole Rollins-Bray Wyatt situation?

52:33 What do you think, Nate?

52:35 Maybe, but I think the Rollins and Fiend match was just the big talking point of that pay-per-view simply because of how much.

52:46 Of a crapshoot it was.

52:48 Um, for lack of a better term, um, there's really not. And I mean, I remember watching the show live. I could not tell you any other match that was on that show, to be completely honest with you. Um, I don't remember it, the show really blowing me away at all. I just remember, I remember that match, um, even before the internet started blowing up about it. I mean, in the moment watching it live, I'm sitting there like, what is going on?

53:12 What is this? Like, why, why is.

53:15 He getting a disqualification for, you know, pulling out a hammer and this.

53:19 That like, it just didn't make sense.

53:21 Or actually, I guess it wasn't just disqualifications or stoppage or whatever before he hit him with the sledgehammer. But, but I, I think that's probably why things get talked about that match gets talked about for that particular pay-per-view more so than anything else.

53:37 Because it was just such piss poor booking.

53:41 I mean, even in, I don't remember if it was the last Broken Skull Sessions, but it was one of the most recent ones with Seth Rollins. Seth even gets into it quite a bit with Stone Cold, talking about that particular match and how upset he was and how upset.

53:58 A lot of other people were at the booking.

54:02 So I got to say, I think, at least in my opinion anyway, that is probably why a lot of the actually the majority of the rest of the pay-per-view is probably forgotten.

54:13 Um, because there was just that one moment.

54:15 There's a lot of pay-per-views that kind of get the rest of the card kind of gets forgotten because there was one match, one moment that, that really stood out.

54:22 So that's at least my two cents.

54:25 Uh, very good. Um, Kyle, uh, anything else from tonight's SmackDown you want to talk about?

54:29 But just the magic stuff between Becky and Sasha was just really good. I just really, they just have this great chemistry. That's my point about, about that. And then, and then, um, And then it was just, it was just so, because I get, and I like that where I don't know who's going to win because both of them are my favorites. So I like, I don't care who has the winning. But then, and so heading into Crown Jewel itself and with the smack is so, that's why it's so, well, hard but not hard because part of me is thinking that Becky's going to retain and they're going to do the flip-flop state of Charlotte becomes the Raw Women's Champion and Bethesda was champion and Becky becomes the Raw Women's Champion or Sasha will just win

55:07 the championship because I can't really see Becky losing the title this quickly after winning the title two months ago, but I can also see it. But if Bianca does win the title, I'll be questioning myself saying, well, why would they do that at SummerSlam just to have a shock value if that's the theme? Because Becky still doesn't get booed. She still gets very cheered, even if she wants to say she's a heel, I just don't get what's so different. She's still doing that attitude that she did in the past. So I don't see the difference there, but, um, but that's my thought.

55:45 Well, let me pause you there, Kyle. Uh, Nate, what if, what are your thoughts on, on Becky tonight relative to Sasha? I noted this in my report at pwtorch.com. Sasha didn't, if you just read a transcript, Sasha and Becky didn't sound all that different. You wouldn't be able to tell who the heel was. Um, But Sasha was, I thought, a lot more obnoxious. That just hideous laugh she does, the whole facial expressions, the body language. And then Becky was sort of like Ric Flair, circa 85.

56:12 Like, woo!

56:13 You know, it's just like, I'm the best. Y'all know it. And I'm just going to brag about it. And granted, Flair was a heel, but he was a likable heel. Becky's a likable heel. And to me, and I know for every woman out there, there's a bunch of people who there's nothing they could do that won't sound biased against them if you don't just say they're always the most awesome person on the screen. But Sasha, I think, is clearly going for booze. And Becky, in this instance, opposite of Sasha, was perhaps intentionally or perhaps not, but the more likable of the two. But the finish was Belair and Becky getting into it in a way where you would hope the fans are against Becky and for Belair because Belair should have a clean path to being cheered.

56:58 They shouldn't give any headwind or any obstructions. to fans liking her more in every situation she's in. So it's still a conundrum. That's why I just keep saying I can't wait to get to Friday, next Friday. I just want to get past Crown Jewel. I want the rosters to be settled. And I want the women's divisions to have clear-cut baby faces and heels. And there are some issues here. So, Nate, your thoughts on the Sasha-Becky contrast in particular?

57:23 Yeah, so I completely agree with you there where you said Sasha seemed a little bit more obnoxious and Um, and things like that.

57:32 It, Becky, Becky's a much better promo. Um, just all around. She, she has been as long as I can remember anyway.

57:40 Um, you know, one of the things that we actually talked about on, on PWT talks NXT, uh, not that long ago was, was Sasha's promo abilities. I forget why we got into it. Cause it's not like she's on, um, she's actually on NXT right now. but we, we started getting into it. I think actually maybe Tom and Kelly were talking about it on, on their eight year, eight years back podcast. Um, and it's somehow played over an hours, but you know, listening to her even back, like in the day when she was on NXT, when she, when she first debuted, even when she left, uh, she's never been.

58:13 A solid, strong promo. She kind of seems scripted.

58:17 She seems like she's reading off of a teleprompter or, or trying to recite from memory. Um, you know, I mean the long short of it, I mean, she's, she's a wrestler, she's not an actor. But so I get to give her credit for that, but she's, her promos kind of are always a little lacking, at least for me.

58:37 I know Tom and Kelly on my show as well. They've kind of always been a bit, you know, lacking. So I think there was definitely that contrast there too. It's like, I, I, Like I'm looking at Sasha and she's doing this fake laugh and everything that she's doing just kind of seems choreographed and scripted.

58:58 Whereas Becky, I love that.

59:00 I love the analogy that you had you know the just cooler than school rick flair 1980s like that's how she came across um so there's definitely definitely that that uh you know kind of a contrast there for for me anyway um.

59:15 With with becky and belair um Yeah, because I agree.

59:23 She kind of came across the face at the beginning, and then at the end, it's kind of a heel. I would want to see a lot more clear-cut, clear-defined baby faces really across the company. But that's another can of worms I'm not going to get into right now. So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with the two of them.

59:43 All right.

59:43 Very good. Kyle, any quick closing words? Because we have our on-site correspondent standing by.

59:48 Yeah, so the last little part of the match is about the other women, like Liv Morgan and Carmella. Like, why are they having short matches? And Liv was wearing sexy clothes. Like, why would you do that? But that's it for that. It's just that whole part of the women's division is so weird, and that's it.

1:00:08 All right.

1:00:09 Thanks, Kyle.

1:00:09 Appreciate it. Did you know that you can enjoy commercial-free versions of all of your favorite Wade Keller podcasts and PWTorch daily casts on Spotify? Just go to patreon.com, search PWTorch, and subscribe to a VIP membership tier. You get a seven-day free trial, by the way, to kick the tires a bit and see if you like the service. And then sync it with Spotify, and you can listen to commercial-free versions of our free shows, like the Wade Keller post shows, the Wade Keller podcast flagship, our flashbacks, and also the PWTorch daily cast lineup. Again, all commercial-free, a nice streamlined listening experience. But with third-tier membership, you can also unlock all the VIP podcasts, including Everything with Rich

1:00:47 and Wade, The Fix with Todd Martin that I host with Todd every week, the Wade Keller News Bulletin's post-pay-per-view roundtables, and an array of other VIP-exclusive podcasts with different hosts and different themes. Check out the lineup. Go to Patreon and search PWTorch and subscribe and sync it up with Spotify or stay within the Patreon ecosystem. Either way works, go to Patreon and start your seven-day free trial. Okay, let's do this. Let's get to Ed, who attended in person tonight, our on-site correspondent. Ed, thanks so much for giving us a call after attending SmackDown tonight.

1:01:28 How's it going, guys? Is it Nate? Right, it's Wade. I think it's Nate Lindbergh. I think I got the name right.

1:01:33 Yep.

1:01:33 That's me.

1:01:34 You got it.

1:01:34 Yeah, SmackDown was good.

1:01:35 It was awesome.

1:01:36 From the top of my head, the building was full. There were no empty seats at all. They did a tribute to the troops. Yeah, that's what it is, a tribute to the troops. So everybody stayed. Nobody left. They handed out flags and whatnot. So after SmackDown ended at about 727, they ended up doing that afterwards. But after SmackDown.

1:02:00 I would tell you, like, I'm going to be a bad in-event person, but it seemed like everybody had at least a good reaction.

1:02:11 You know, I mean, there was, I'd say maybe, who was it? Carmella and Zelina and then Naomi and Shayna and Sonya. They probably had the weakest of the things, but, you know, Edge came out. I mean, the place just blew up, which it was probably the biggest pop of the night. And then, you know, Brock, Roman, same thing.

1:02:36 Those were probably the three biggest of the night. But Edge just, once he came out, it blew up. And they did some fireworks for them. And that was unexpected. So that was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know. But it was a good show. And I would definitely say well worth the money. Definitely a different experience. I mean, I've been in before, but it's definitely a different experience in person than it is watching on TV.

1:03:00 So let's... Let's give people a small spoiler warning here for Tribute to the Troops. And let's have you just tell us about that, what it was like. Match finishes are fine and outcomes, because it's not like big, I assume they're not big storyline developments. And then also, you know, just the vibe of the show. What were they trying to get across?

1:03:24 With the Tribute to the Troops, they had, at the end of SmackDown... roman said whoever you know he's going to do an open challenge whoever wants to come out but they didn't uh they didn't really draw it out once tribute to the troop started but uh they they gave everybody flags they had hands and flags all out and uh louis and garcia sang the national anthem and uh then you had biggie versus uh golf sigla and obviously uh biggie won and he you know he had the belt and all that so i don't know if that means he's Going to keep it until when that show airs, but he had the belt in that. They had Bianca versus Liv Morgan, and obviously Bianca won, and then Roman versus.

1:04:15 Shinsuke.

1:04:17 Yeah, Roman versus Shinsuke, and Boobs was with him. That match. That match ended, Boogs would play the guitar to give Shinsuke some, I guess, energy. And then the Usos came out, attacked Boogs, and Roman did the Superman punch on the outside, and then the spear on the inside and pinned him. Yeah, no, they were good. They wanted the whole patriotism, patriotic stuff, and all that. They had the Marine color guard there.

1:04:48 to presenting the colors and whatnot. That was good. It actually lasted longer than I expected. Like I said, they did draw it out to about an hour. You spoke about it before, but Pat McAfee is like... I think I'd say it was more toward the second half of the show, he was jumping around, but even in the Tributes to the Troops, he would do his stuff that he does with Shinsuke, and Roman was telling him to sit down. They were doing a little back and forth, and Pat McAfee running away from him and all that.

1:05:20 Nate, jump in with a question.

1:05:22 I just want to say, I love that.

1:05:23 I love the fact that Pat McAfee is allowed to be Pat McAfee and kind of just not be another faceless or nameless announcer.

1:05:31 So that's great.

1:05:34 One of the things that I am always curious about, actually, I guess this is a two-parter. First part is, is this the first time since the pandemic that wrestling has come to this area?

1:05:46 Or at least WWE is coming to this area.

1:05:49 Yeah.

1:05:49 Yeah, it is.

1:05:50 It's the first time, uh, AEW hasn't been out here. AEW is out in Las Vegas. I did, was that their like first, first pay-per-view, but otherwise, yeah, this is the first one that has been out, out here, meaning LA and, uh, in this area since the pandemic.

1:06:09 Okay, cool.

1:06:10 And then my, my other question is, uh, is, is kind of like, what was like the, the COVID protocols and things like, I know, you know, it's different everywhere. Um, but it's still a topic that like on PWT docs, NXT, we bring up a lot.

1:06:23 Um, so I'm just, uh, got some people.

1:06:26 All right.

1:06:27 Um, but yeah, just kind of curious, like how that was going. Like, uh, you know, you said everything was full. All the seats are full. I didn't notice any like social distancing in the seats or anything like that, but I was just kind of curious, like what they had COVID protocols there.

1:06:41 You know, as far as I could tell, they, they didn't have any, um, I know I got an alert from Ticketmaster regarding it that said about either a negative COVID test or a vaccine card. And when I drove in, the parking attendant mentioned, you know, did you see it? And I said, yeah. But when I walked through the doors, they didn't ask us anything. They didn't ask to see the card. They didn't ask anything about it. They weren't taking temperatures or anything. Just a slight note, Ontario's in San Bernardino County, whereas L.A. County, literally probably a good just maybe 15 miles away. They do still have a mask mandate and whatnot, whereas San Bernardino County doesn't. So that might have played into it. I took my nephew

1:07:30 to the show, so he's 14, but we were vaccinated in that. But, you know, it was just off and on. Some people had masks, some people didn't.

1:07:37 Yeah.

1:07:39 So how full was the building percentage-wise among this, if they didn't block off any seats? Because obviously they would unblock seats if they could. So just of all the seats that, other than those behind the big wall, what percent of the seats in that arena were full?

1:07:52 100%.

1:07:54 Cool.

1:07:55 Yeah.

1:07:55 So, because sometimes people say 100%, but, oh, but the upper deck was all tarped off. And it's like, well, no, then it's not a sellout because they would have untarped that and sold those tickets if they could. So that's, and then there was a level of enthusiasm that felt more, in line with a crowd excited to be back, seeing live sports. As Nate's bringing up, this is the first time in that area.

1:08:15 Yeah, that was why I asked, because especially for that initial Edge pop, they went crazy. And they seemed like a lively crowd, or you guys seemed like a lively crowd throughout the whole show.

1:08:25 So that's one of the reasons I was wondering.

1:08:28 So Edge got one of the biggest pops.

1:08:30 Yeah, that was.

1:08:30 Oh, good.

1:08:33 No, I was just going to say, yeah, no, it was a, it was a, the crowd was, you know, live all night. There were everybody at some point they were cheering something and they were into the whole, whole show. And yeah, there were, there was nothing tarped off. It was whatever it was behind the, the screen. Otherwise everything else, everything was filled. And yeah, I was surprised that I was surprised that nobody left for a tribute to the troops.

1:08:56 Usually if it was 205 live, it, you know, it's index. and I was one of those people who thinned out too, but you know, yeah.

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1:09:41 In attendance for.

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1:10:07 See you in the Paradise! During the Edge promo, were people just kind of glued to the edge of their seat? Did it feel kind of heavy in the building? I mean, that was pretty heavy stuff that he was getting into. Did he hold the audience? Because, you know, people show up there. They want to see wrestling and bombast. And Edge is suddenly sitting down having this heart-to-heart that, you know, was, like I say, emotionally heavy. How did that play among the live crowd?

1:10:42 Oh, it was good.

1:10:43 Yeah, everybody was there. They were, you know, there weren't any... uh, like different chance, I guess, boring chance or anything like that while he was talking to that, once he came out, everybody, you know, everybody was excited. And then, uh, once he got in the ring and that everybody, everybody listened to, then, you know, obviously he mentioned, uh, he got a pop for when he mentioned, uh, going after Becky. Um, but otherwise, yeah, no, everybody was, everybody was glued to it and, and listening to it. And that we, uh, um, we said we were on the side next to the announcer. So like, uh, to the right of Pat McAfee. So we were right there anyways.

1:11:18 Um, the, uh, the, the, the actual, uh, King of the Ring matches, uh, I mean, Sammy and Finn, that was some good action. Um, and Selena Carmela, I thought it was, you know, fine. It was short. Um, when there was wrestling, I mean, it, cause there wasn't a heavy dose of wrestling on the show. Uh, I guess, uh, I shouldn't say that there was an heavy dose of wrestling the first kind of half of the hour of the two and a half hours of SmackDown. Was there any sense of restlessness and were, were the fans maybe especially into the action because of that?

1:11:46 No, it didn't.

1:11:47 It didn't think people got restless. It was, they were into it, you know, with the Sammy match and that, you know, they were cheering, you know, yelling, whatever, Sammy and all that stuff. And, and Balor got a great pop too. I should have said that before. And everybody's into his, whatever you call that, the flailing of the arms or whatever you want to call that. Everybody's into it and does it with them. But no, no, I mean, it, the crowd never seemed to get into a lull and nothing, you know, none of that hijacking stuff or anything like that.

1:12:20 Yeah.

1:12:20 How, how did the happy Corbin thing work out? Um, he made his entrance. There was a commercial break. I'm kind of curious. Did he and Matt Katmos do anything during the break or did they just like sit there in darkness?

1:12:32 Um, they will, uh, what did they do?

1:12:34 They did that.

1:12:35 And then, um, they were kind of a little back and forth with, uh, Pat McAfee, uh, having Corbin came down, he was close. He didn't go to the announced table, uh, But they were doing a back and forth with him. And I'm assuming you guys saw who came out?

1:12:53 The guitar player. That was weird. Boogs and Shinsuke. You might not know this, but they were wishing Mike Cole a happy birthday.

1:13:00 Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, that was the thing I was wondering about. I was like, yeah, I was thinking that on the way out. I was like, it's funny, you know, as much as you complained about the commentary, when you're there in person, you kind of lose a... that story, the thread through the whole show or whatever. But yeah, that was it. And then the Street Profits came out.

1:13:18 And so that, when I was watching, I was like, oh, that was kind of odd. But yeah, they just did their jokes in the ring, which I assume you guys saw.

1:13:24 Yeah.

1:13:25 And then they just went out by the bellkeeper.

1:13:27 Yeah, it was existential humor. Layup, what percentage and did it sway at all from ring entrances to how the story was told in the ring with Becky and Sasha? how behind the wrestlers they were. Like for ring entrances, was one person cheered, but then as the match progressed, it changed, or was it just the same for ring entrances through the finish?

1:13:53 I think I was thinking about that when I was with the match and that, and it was actually hard to tell.

1:13:59 It was like.

1:14:01 Becky got cheered and she got booed. But I think Sasha got cheered. I don't think she ever got booed. That's the best I can say with those two. I think as Sasha went on and on and on, the crowd started to get behind her. But there was still always a very strong... It was definitely more... Becky had more cheers than she did boos. I don't think it was that close.

1:14:30 But the fans were not.

1:14:30 75-25 split.

1:14:31 75-25 for who?

1:14:31 Sasha? That....

1:14:39 In terms of cheers and booze got about 75 percent cheers now I get it but as like I said as the match went on though uh it seemed like the the crowd started to fall behind Sasha and.

1:14:53 How about Belair for her ring entrance what uh how did her reaction compare just in terms of volume regardless of cheers or booze like how big of a star if you didn't watch wrestling didn't know any of the three women wrestlers history would you think Belair was at the level of Sasha and Becky.

1:15:09 Um i would i don't think at the level but she got i'd say like a very good response not the they got strong responses and you know like uh you know becky gotta have i can say a very strong response so she got a strong response and probably bianca got a very good response very good.

1:15:29 Uh nate do you have anything else you want to ask about uh smackdown and uh ed's experience at the show.

1:15:35 So the only the only other thing that comes to mind, and this is something I've been wondering for a little while, when Eric Boogs plays along with Shinsuke's music, does it actually like because I mean, you can kind of hear the music on TV, but like in the building, does it sound OK or does it sound like completely off and out of key?

1:15:54 It takes a few minutes. It was funny when they were doing the tribute to the troops. Roman does the the Hancock to go for the Superman punch. and he punches the ground and all of a sudden you, you start hearing this. And I'm like, I said to my nephew, I was like, is a storm coming? Like, that's what it sounded like. And it took a minute to realize it was a boogs playing. Um, yeah, no, it's just, uh, it's just, he, you know, keying.

1:16:22 Up, whatever.

1:16:23 It's not, uh, you know, tuned or whatever. It's, it's the play to, to, you know, like, uh, uh, like Nakamura is one of those, uh, Years ago, they had the plants that would move to noise. That's more or less what he's doing.

1:16:38 Okay.

1:16:39 Yep. That's kind of what I figured. That's kind of what I figured. It's kind of the way it came across to me on TV. But, yeah, I was just curious.

1:16:46 I've been wondering that for a few weeks now, so I figured I'd ask when I had the chance.

1:16:52 If you're listening to us on the Apple Podcast app, on Spotify, or any other app that allows you to rate our podcast, please take a moment to give us a five-star rating. It really helps us in the algorithm and helps them know that you recommend us to others. Just look for a place to rate the show on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to our shows, and please click that five-star rating. And of course, thank you so much for listening. As far as Reigns and Lesnar went, was there any split? Did Reigns just get almost entirely booed and Lesnar almost entirely cheered? Do you have a percentage breakdown on that? Did it seem to change at all as the segment rolled on?

1:17:33 I'll say when Roman comes out, it's hard to hear boos for him. It's not, you know, part of it, I'm sure, is because maybe people are just saying Roman or something, but it's hard. You don't, he gets a good, obviously he gets a, the simple way to put it, he gets a strong reaction, very strong reaction. And I didn't hear too many boos. Brock just got straight up cheers.

1:17:59 There was no, you know, everybody was just into that and into Brock completely. Once the, once it went a little further with Roman and all that, Roman got more boos. He didn't get, I'd say, obviously it wasn't a match, but it, in whatever you want to call it, the interaction they had there, which I will say I thought was a lot lighter than I expected. I was thinking it was going to be a little more, but I guess they left the juice there at the end with Brock saying, you know, Paul Heyman read the contract for him.

1:18:31 But that got a big gas from the crowd. But no, it was Roman. Everybody's, you know, sticking their finger in the air for the one you know with Roman and everything. So I mean the crowd's there. I think as it went on, you know, within the, within that interaction, they, they were behind Brock. You know, I think they, I'd say that way they chose. I don't think Roman really gets booed, you know, that much.

1:19:05 Yeah.

1:19:05 It wasn't, you know, you'd hear a boo, but, but it wasn't, there was no, you know, uh there was no what is it you know cena cena sucks thing or anything i mean it he got he got his cheers or he gets that pop or the the uso thing you know everybody has whatever little sound they'll make.

1:19:22 For him but it really weren't any.

1:19:23 Booze so i i do have another uh i do have another question for you um so on tv anyway they played a vignette for hit row uh showing up on smackdown either a couple weeks i forget exactly when they said they were going to be showing up Did they play that in the building?

1:19:40 And if they did, was there any sort of reaction for Hit Row?

1:19:43 Because they're probably one of my favorite things in NXT, and I'm really looking forward to seeing them on the Marine roster.

1:19:48 So curious if they got any sort of reaction in the building.

1:19:52 They did play it.

1:19:53 Yeah, they did.

1:19:54 It was, you know, so I wouldn't say the reaction, you know, I would say generally there wasn't much reaction to it.

1:20:01 Okay.

1:20:02 That's kind of what I figured, but I was hoping it was going.

1:20:05 To be different, but that's kind of what I figured.

1:20:07 Oh, my final question for you, I think, is did the makeup of the crowd seem like if there was an AEW show tomorrow night in the same city, there would be very little overlap? Or did this seem like a crowd that fits the AEW demographics too? I ask fans that in terms of every market might be different, but it seems like WWE continues to be mostly families and a different kind of fan. What was your impression of that?

1:20:35 Looking around, there weren't that many kids there.

1:20:39 It didn't come off.

1:20:40 Yeah, I would say definitely it would be an AEW type... It would be the same people at an AEW show, I guess the plain way to put it. There were kids there, no doubt. Families there, but it wasn't in any way an overabundance of like, why am I sitting here? I'd say it probably skewed. I wouldn't be surprised in that easily in that 30 to 50 range. They were probably, I would say is that higher, you know, if where most people fell into.

1:21:14 Yeah.

1:21:15 Yeah.

1:21:15 Cool.

1:21:16 You know, I don't know.

1:21:17 I'd say maybe, maybe 10, 10%. It seemed like we're kids that I, where I would tell you we're under, you know, when I say kids, probably 12 and under 10 and under like maybe 10% at most. I don't even know if it was that many. I mean, well, they weren't, They weren't running around like I thought they would be.

1:21:38 Cool.

1:21:38 And anything else you want to add before we let you go? Anything else that maybe you took a note on mentally that you wanted to pass along to us about your experience?

1:21:46 The only other thing would have been with Seth when he came out. I guess it probably went to a commercial break because he left. He came out with his entrance and then he left. And obviously it was dark when he left. But he was doing the same thing, jawing a little bit with McAfee. And then McAfee did his thing where, you know, he stood on the desk, and I guess the McAfee minute or whatever. But basically McAfee was, I guess, I don't know, putting over Seth as a, you know, as a heel or whatever you're saying.

1:22:16 Seth told him about the Giants got screwed, that Ontario's the worst city in California. And so he did that during the break, I guess, to kind of gin things up a little bit for Seth.

1:22:31 Very good.

1:22:31 Ed, thank you so much for taking time out to talk to us tonight.

1:22:34 All right, no problem.

1:22:35 I appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, what I would say is I definitely would, you know, I know WWE takes the knocks and I'm definitely one to knock them, but the show felt worth the money. And, you know, I think he definitely left on a good note. I took my nephew who's 14. He's not big on wrestling where he's sitting there every week watching it or anything, but he likes going to the shows and he's happy when he gets a hand slap from the referee or from the wrestlers.

1:23:01 Yeah.

1:23:02 So he got a couple of those, and so he was happy about that.

1:23:06 Nobody's happy to get a hand slap from a referee.

1:23:10 Actually, the person in front of us, I don't know which referee it was, but they got a couple of high fives from him.

1:23:19 Okay, cool. No, referees are people, too. We have to remember that. By the way, I love McAfee tonight going, referees get it wrong in every other sport all the time, but not here in WWE. I love McAfee after the blowing umpire call and whatever else is going on in regular sports. McAfee, without even an ounce of irony, just says pro wrestling referees are the class of referees. They get stuff right all the time. You missed out on that.

1:23:47 I'll have to watch the show back and see what I missed. That's funny.

1:23:50 Yeah, it's when the ref caught whoever's foot was on the bottom rope and stopped the count. I can't remember what match it was now, but I popped for that. All right, cool. Thanks, Ed, so much. Appreciate it.

1:24:00 All right, you guys have a good night.

1:24:03 Yep, we'll talk to you soon.

1:24:04 Take care.

1:24:07 Hey, everyone. Longtime PWTorch communist Sean Radican here to let you know I've revamped and renewed the Radican Worldwide Podcast for 2026. a weekly VIP exclusive. Every week, I break down four or five of the biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis, providing insight that helps you understand the story better or see it another way than maybe is the controversial take out there. Then I bring on a special guest for the second half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone else who works in the business. Other times it's a guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view on a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have included Bronson Reed from WWE and PCO. One of my areas

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1:25:27 All right. We have our phone line still open. So if you're joining us in the live stream here in process 347-215-8558. That's 347-215-8558. Let's go next to Sean from Tennessee. Sean, thanks so much for holding all this time. What did you think of SmackDown tonight?

1:25:47 Well, first of all, Wade, I would always hold on for you, man.

1:25:51 I would always hold on.

1:25:51 I'll hold on as long as you... No, it's not a problem at all. No, it's fine.

1:25:56 Sean, you know what? I thought you were going to say... I thought you were going to say, Wade, I would always hold out my hand and give a high five to a referee. That would always make my night. I thought you were going to stand up to referees right there. That's where I thought you were headed.

1:26:13 Yeah. Oh, I should have now. I missed my moment, dang. It's over now. I missed it.

1:26:19 But no, Nate, like I said, I got to talk to him on Tuesday, but it's good to talk to you, man.

1:26:24 How are you, sir?

1:26:25 Hey, doing good, man.

1:26:26 I didn't think I was going to be talking with you for a little while, so it's good to be talking with you tonight.

1:26:31 No, for sure. Absolutely.

1:26:33 No, I wanted to bring up some other stuff. First of all, I love when McAfee, during the Sasha match, when she hit her knees into the post, and he goes, man, the pole was kicking the hell out of the boss tonight.

1:26:47 I was like, oh, that was great. That was funny.

1:26:51 Yes.

1:26:53 About Edge, I wanted to talk real quick about what Nick was saying about Edge and what you guys were talking about. I don't disagree with what you guys are saying with that.

1:27:04 It is repetitive.

1:27:06 The one thing I like about it is that Edge shows fire. He gets you invested in what he's doing. It's like I want him to stay invested and get you excited about every match. But yeah, I feel like there should be like a different way. If he is, you know, like, so going to stay, stay baby face. If he turns heel, that's fine. He could have that, that maniacal side. And it would, I guess, fit better in that sense. But I do like, you know, just the promos. He gets you invested. And that's what I've always loved about him. That's why, you know, again, the promo, like you said, you know, great. But so like, what do you think? I mean, are you still like, do you think he ultimately will go heel.

1:27:41 When he goes to, when he's on raw? Or do you think, You know, the fans just love.

1:27:45 Him so much, you know, that they won't want to turn him just because he's going to get a big pop every time he comes out, and they're afraid if he's a heel, he'll still get that pop every time he comes out.

1:27:52 What do you think about that, maybe?

1:27:54 Our on-site correspondents are saying time after time that Edge is getting the biggest pop of the night or tied, you know, tied or better than anyone in terms of pop of the night. And so, you know, there is a risk in trying to turn him heel, especially when you just are going through that currently with Becky. But...

1:28:14 I think Edge could pull it off. But, you know, as long as Big E stops talking about, like, you know, nipples and, I don't know, earwax or whatever he was talking about dripping down his chest on Monday. You know, it's like the nectar. That's it. Nectar, not earwax. You know, close relatives. You know, I mean, I like Edge and Big E as a feud, you know. but and I think Edge can take Big E to the next level but Big E's gotta resist being who he wants to be and having faith that being a more straight up you know just the guy who just owns a room but can take but can be taken seriously and conducts himself like a world champion who acts like he's you know, the center of a wrestling company instead of somebody who's

1:29:03 there to make us giggle and snicker and guffaw and go, I can't believe he just said that. Like, just move away from that. That's mid-card. That's upper mid-card. That's not world champion. You know, you can give a hint of that with just a subtle look, you know, or a little move when, you know, maybe a heel's not looking at you and he's yelling at the crowd and you do a little something to get a laugh from the fans and the heel turns around and goes, what'd you just do? Like, there's a place for it, but don't make it seem like you're so insecure about with the idea of being serious, that you just always have to be a clown. And he went back to that, and Drew didn't even seem to know what to do. So

1:29:38 if Big E keeps doing that, I think Edge gets teared no matter what he does, almost. You know what I mean? I want to see Big E be serious and an alpha male world champion with pride who doesn't feel he has to just earn his keep by being a jokester and zany. And then Edge just come in there and let's find a hook for that storyline and And bring it all the way to Mania. I'll take edges of heel against Big E for Mania, but I think it can go the wrong direction. It can go the right direction. And a lot of that is up to Big E being secure enough with not clowning around and understand people like him without that mid-card zaniness that New Day have done for so long. Nate, what do you think?

1:30:19 Yeah, I'm kind of in a similar boat. Like, I. I like Big E.

1:30:25 I really like Big E. And I even like the weird, stupid humor here and there. But I also have weird, stupid humor myself. So, you know, it kind of works for me.

1:30:37 But you're not a world champion wrestler trying to sell people on main event fights. Exactly. You know, I mean, that's the thing. It's just like there's a time and a place and a role. You know, it's like if you're a boss at an office... you got to have some respect. You know, you got to have your employees respect.

1:30:57 And I think Big E should be the guy who isn't there to entertain people as a court jester. He should be the guy who walks in and just owns the space because he's the freaking world champion. That's what I'm looking for.

1:31:08 Yeah.

1:31:09 Yeah.

1:31:09 Yeah.

1:31:09 You know, and like, you know, I don't, I don't mind having some of that humor weaved into his, his persona and stuff as champion because that's obviously his character.

1:31:18 But, but I agree.

1:31:19 I would like to see him kind of be a little bit more serious, a lot more serious when it, especially when he needs to be. And when it, when the mood calls for it, rather than, you know, again, talking about nipples and nectar and things like that. You know, like I said, I, I like the act, but for where he is right now as world champ, he kind of does.

1:31:39 I feel like he does need to rein it in a little bit.

1:31:41 You know, it was kind of similar with Kofi, you know, throwing pancakes and things like that as champion.

1:31:46 It, it, it was okay, but it just.

1:31:49 Didn't ever, And I hate saying this because, man, I loved seeing Kofi as champion, and I absolutely believe he deserved it. But his entire run never felt like it was taken serious to me.

1:32:06 I enjoyed it. I liked it.

1:32:07 But then especially with being capped off by that Brock Lesnar loss at the beginning of SmackDown on Fox, it just never felt like it was taken super serious. And I don't want to see the same thing happen to Big E here.

1:32:21 Um, if he kind of has to keep this.

1:32:24 Whole new day shtick of being, you know, uh, being silly all the time, being goofy and crazy all the time. Um, I wanted to see him kind of be more of that NXT biggie that we.

1:32:35 Saw way back in the day.

1:32:36 Um, you're kind of more of a killer and, and, uh, you know, that's what I want to see out of, out of this.

1:32:42 So yeah, by far.

1:32:43 Uh, Sean, back to you.

1:32:45 Yeah, and I wanted to bring up one quick thing. When Bianca was on commentary, and I wanted to kind of get what you guys thought about it, because I don't think she's been on commentary yet, like during a match, or if she has, not very much.

1:32:56 She was okay. She was well-spoken, soft-spoken, which was cool.

1:33:02 She kind of disappeared for a while.

1:33:03 They were talking about Sasha and Becky. Yeah, yeah.

1:33:08 No, she did.

1:33:08 I mean, I was up and down at times, because I thought she was okay. I just thought when they asked her, when Sasha and Becky were, you know, just at the start of the match and she's like, yeah, I don't mind them beating each other up. So it's easier for me. And I'm like, you're a baby face. You're a fighting champion. You should want them at their best to beat them. Like, I didn't, I didn't like that line that she used. Was that, am I off base on that?

1:33:31 Or I didn't understand why she said that.

1:33:33 I think that's a good point. You know, I mean, I don't think it's a major issue in the sense of, Hey, I'm facing these people and I want to be champion. They're beating each other up. It's logical, but yeah, And I don't want wrestlers to feel like gun shy to ever just, you know, speak their, you know, kind of speak off the cuff. But that said, it is a sign of a little inexperience, maybe not thinking through your character.

1:33:55 And this is, you know, I talked about this on a weight killer hotline a couple of days ago on the VIP podcast feed. You know, what makes a baby face and why has it been so bad at them? And part of it is, is there's just not a culture within creating characters and portraying characters that understands what makes somebody a stand up admirable person. And then applying that almost universally to the wrestlers who your intent is for fans to cheer. And of course, you got to pick wrestlers who fans like. You can't, you know, if fans are cheering somebody, you don't want to strip away what they like about it, but you ought to put them against heels and frame them as a baby face.

1:34:29 This isn't, it just shouldn't be hard. You know, fans like someone. Generally, you would, you know, Becky's maybe an exception that we're watching play out for better or for worse. But generally, if fans like a wrestler, Book him as a babyface if fans kind of don't lean into that and book him as a heel. But you got to have those bullet points of what defines somebody who people would cheer for. And I think in life, people cheer for badasses who are charismatic and entertaining, but also stand for something. And I thought Belair hit those points really well on Raw when she said, you know, Charlotte might like to brag about what she's achieved, but she hasn't done so with honor. And I want to be a

1:35:10 champion who has a lot of achievements, but I want to pair them with doing it honorably. I want to earn my accolades. I want to earn my trophies, my championships. I don't want to walk around as champion bragging about something that I didn't really accomplish on my own. And that needs to be part of it. So if that's drilled into her culturally as a baby face within WWE when they're going over promos and matches and things to say, it should be instinct by now for her to go, you know what, I enjoy seeing these two beat each other up, but, you know, I kind of want them to leave something for me, you know, on Thursday. There's kind of a way to frame it where it doesn't seem like you're just happy. You don't have to face

1:35:49 them at full strength. You don't want that to be the message that people take from the commentary.

1:35:55 Yeah, because I didn't, because I don't think that's the way she meant it to come across. It just sounded that way when she kind of said it. It was like, you know, what are you talking about?

1:36:03 But, You know that last segment you're just listening to and the next one that you're waiting to listen to? Those can be one second apart with a VIP membership. You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our shows. PWTorch.com slash GoVIP tells you how to do it. That's PWTorch.com slash GoVIP. Options exist within the Apple Podcast app using your Apple account, through Patreon, which, by the way, you can sync up with Spotify, or just about any iOS or Android app with a full VIP membership. You can customize the feed for individual shows and clusters of shows and themes. Go to pwtorch.com slash govip for full details on all the options to listen commercial-free. And with upper-tier options,

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1:36:53 One thing I want to throw in, Nick was talking about, if Nick and Chris do a podcast, I'll be the first one to listen.

1:36:59 I'll get involved anyway.

1:37:01 I know how, but I would definitely listen.

1:37:03 That's for sure. I love when they call in. It's always fun.

1:37:06 But no, one thing I will say, too, and Wade, you've harped on this forever, and I'm with you 100%. I never thought about it initially. They didn't even tell you they were in California, for God's sake.

1:37:17 It was ridiculous. Come the F on.

1:37:21 You're in Ontario, California. be happy that you're in, you're in the fricking building. You should be happy. I don't want to go on your rant, but I mean, I'm just telling where you are, like, be proud of where you are. Don't be like, Oh, well, we're in Ontario, California. You're in fricking California.

1:37:37 Like, come on.

1:37:39 I mean, it's just stupid.

1:37:41 I had to throw that out there. Cause I was mad when it first popped up and then didn't say where they were.

1:37:45 And I'm like, come on, man.

1:37:47 Like, I don't know.

1:37:48 So I'll get off that.

1:37:50 You can talk about more if you need to, because I get where you're coming from on that. But the main two things I was going to get into different was with the Usos and Street Profits, it was a very good match. It was a solid match. Where do you think they're going with the Street Profits? Because I knew they were going to lose. They've lost to the Usos every time, which I get. The Usos are a great act. The bloodline is great. Where do the Street Profits go? Because there's no good tag teams really that anybody's– that Vince is going to push any of them like the Viking Raiders. I don't see them getting a push coming up. I don't see, I don't really see anybody for them. So where do you think they're going

1:38:26 with them? because I see them on the downturn pretty quick right now yeah one of.

1:38:30 The downsides of trying to pop ratings and and you know chasing you know viewership numbers is you're giving away matches that maybe you can't afford to give away and clean finishes that that kind of paint you into a corner and on Smackdown I mean they did hype that New Day are coming so I mean Do we want to see more Usos New Day? I mean, it's good, but I don't know if it feels fresh yet. Mansour and Mustafa Ali broke up. I guess there's Angel Garza and Humberto. But they are not exactly on a red-hot winning streak, nor are they babyfaces. So the Usos don't really have a lot of opponents. I'm a little fearful we're just going to get Kofi and Xavier against the Usos.

1:39:16 And that's not a particularly deep tag-team post-draft depth chart, Nate. Anything else jump out to you? I mean, top dollar, I guess, depending on how they portray them, you know, can be added to the tag mix.

1:39:30 Yeah, I mean, that's actually what I was going to say is, you know, with Hit Row, because like, so, and this is something that I kind of wanted to get into at some point tonight anyway, but I absolutely, I love Hit Row. I feel like swerve swerve is going to come in and he should easily be put in you know the mid mid upper card area there top dollar and adrian the adonis uh they would be amazing and ashanti yeah wow i do that all the time easy slip yep uh ashanti the adonis um yeah they they could easily slide into the.

1:40:06 Tag let me let me just i want to make sure you got it nate it's adorable ashanti adonis right did he change it to a door? Cause he was, I'm riffing. I'm riffing on it. Adorably.

1:40:17 Oh, adorable.

1:40:18 Yep.

1:40:19 Okay.

1:40:19 Nevermind.

1:40:19 I pick up what you're putting down. Pick up what you're putting down.

1:40:23 I love it.

1:40:24 Uh, um, it's not easy to, it's not hard to confuse me.

1:40:27 Where's mad cat boss when you need them.

1:40:29 All right.

1:40:31 Uh, hanging out with bear cat, Keith Lee. Uh, I don't know why they're adding cats to everybody, but anyway, um, but, uh, but no, I feel like, uh, you, um, I almost did it again.

1:40:41 Adrian is honest.

1:40:42 Ashanti Adonis and top dollar, they could easily slide in the tag division. Uh, and B fab, um, should probably stay away from the women's division for a while.

1:40:50 Uh, but that's, that's another story. Um, that, you know, so yeah, hit row. Absolutely.

1:40:55 Uh, in the tag division, there's not, I'm trying to think like you have to get the Mysterios. Uh, but I feel like there's probably something going on there with the, with the, uh, a breakup coming up at some point. Um, yeah, I can't, there's no other actual major tag team that sticks out in my mind right now.

1:41:13 The last thing I was going to bring up, well, first, I was laughing when Zelina and Carmella were backstage before their match, and they said that they were going to play fair with each other, and I was.

1:41:22 Like, oh my gosh.

1:41:24 Sure, yeah.

1:41:25 Like, this is ridiculous.

1:41:27 And then, you know, Zelina winning, I still thought was dumb, but whatever.

1:41:30 I mean, I like Zelina. I just, I like her talking more than wrestling, and she's not a bad wrestler. Like, she's not terrible. She's just not somebody I really can get into right now. But anyway, it's a whole nother thing.

1:41:41 The last thing I was going to actually bring up was the Sonya and Naomi and why Shana in, like, that's what I didn't get about the whole thing. I understand why Sonya is obviously trying to get out of it because she's an authority figure. She's going to pull her weight against Naomi because she hates Naomi. And she's going to say, well, you know, basically enter end up like, I'm not going to wrestle, but why is Shana involved with Sonya?

1:42:04 Like, I don't, I don't know.

1:42:07 Maybe I'm missing something. Or do you think they're going somewhere with Shayna and her together somehow?

1:42:12 Or was it just.

1:42:14 Shayna, just like, I'm going to help. What do you think about it?

1:42:18 My take was Shayna was a one-week hitman, so to speak, for Sonya. But I don't know. Because they haven't explained what Sonya's issue is with Naomi. And I don't know if we're ever going to get it. the origin story for this. I hope that gets fleshed out where we kind of understand what Sonya's issue is with Naomi, because I just think the story needs that. It could go the direction that Shayna's the one who's going to just feud with Naomi and it continues, or Shayna could have been a one-off. I'd like to see Shayna be a babyface, and I think that fits her better going forward. But I'm trying to think. Baszler is headed... I'm trying to think where else she could be headed at this point if she's a heel. Because Toni Storm kind of got

1:43:15 jobbed out. It's just not a super deep SmackDown babyface lineup. And that's why I think Shayna as a babyface makes more sense. So possibly Shayna gets tired of Sonya. you know, Boston or around or, you know, trying to get her to do the dirty work. And it's actually a way to kind of transition her to being a top baby face.

1:43:36 Otherwise it, I fear they're going to try to build Naomi up into basically the lead baby face on, on SmackDown. And, and if Shayna stays healed, that depth chart, unless they turn Sasha face officially again. Yeah, it's, it's, I'm, Again, this is why I want to get past Crown Jewel. I want some answers. They drafted the rosters they did with some things in mind, and I'm curious what those things are for the SmackDown Women's depth chart and the heel-face alignment.

1:44:05 Sean, anything else? No, I agree.

1:44:07 It was just a weird... Yeah, no, I wanted to say real quick is, again... Wade, you and Todd for five hours was this great listening experience.

1:44:18 It was fantastic.

1:44:18 You guys go VIP out there. I mean, I know it might be like, oh, it's go VIP.

1:44:23 No, go VIP.

1:44:25 You won't.

1:44:26 You'll be glad you did. Trust me. You get a total bang for your buck. You get so many hours.

1:44:30 You don't even know what you're going to do with yourself every day. And Nate, I get to hear you just go on about stuff and I love it, man. I appreciate you guys. Wade, you're the best.

1:44:39 Nate, you're awesome, man.

1:44:40 Thank you always for taking my call. I'm glad to hear from Javier and see what you got going on tonight.

1:44:44 Awesome.

1:44:44 Thanks, Sean.

1:44:45 Appreciate it.

1:44:45 Thanks, Sean.

1:44:46 Yep.

1:44:46 Have a great weekend.

1:44:48 You too, guys.

1:44:48 Yep.

1:44:48 All right.

1:44:49 Very good.

1:44:56 Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn some wrestling history. Don't miss the 90s Past Cast every Friday on the PWTorch Daily Cast feed. Alex and Patrick will transport you 30 years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as the Torch reported it 30 years ago. That's the 90s Past Cast every Friday on the PWTorch Daily Cast feed.

1:45:40 All right.

1:45:40 Let's see here.

1:45:41 Yep.

1:45:41 Javier is still with us. So we'll take a little turn here to our Javier segment and let's see if we can have. Javier.

1:45:53 Welcome.

1:45:54 How's your evening going?

1:45:56 Much of a SmackDown segment.

1:46:00 I just missed you so much.

1:46:02 Talk to you about this week.

1:46:03 So, you know, want to say hi.

1:46:05 Hello.

1:46:05 Yes.

1:46:06 It's good to hear from you. I know it's not. Uh, what'd you think of SmackDown, Javier? I didn't say that for a reason, but I said, how was your night going? Cause I know it's a little bit different for you.

1:46:16 Yeah.

1:46:17 Uh, my brother's here by the way.

1:46:19 Hi.

1:46:20 Uh, who's this brother you speak of? You've never brought him up before.

1:46:26 Yeah.

1:46:27 Yeah.

1:46:28 Yeah.

1:46:28 Uh, just got back from rampage and, uh, I'm not gonna, you know, no spoilers for people who, you know, are listening to your show live and haven't seen rampage yet, but, uh, that it man i it's probably one of my favorite live experiences.

1:46:43 Yeah yeah well i mean i know what the highlight was for you hubby i think you can talk about it it's fine it already happened yeah i mean that yeah.

1:46:54 The youtube one uh yeah the the man the the um make sure i get his name right because i've been screwing it up all day brian danielson yeah.

1:47:03 Singing uh you know, singing along with it.

1:47:06 That was, I mean, that.

1:47:07 Was just awesome.

1:47:08 It was a great match.

1:47:10 I was a bit worried leading into it because, like, I didn't feel any excitement, like, leading, you know, like, when they recorded Elevation. Like, last time we went to the show, there was, you know, an excitement, you know, even during, you know, all the quick matches for all the dark stuff.

1:47:30 But then, you know, and then the same, they had the.

1:47:34 Take Conti and, uh, uh, Santana Garrett. And I'm like, Oh, you know, the people that are really into it. But man, it was like this mode. It was just like this, this tension that built up before they came out. It was just a tension in the building. And when, and when that started, it was just, uh, it was awesome.

1:47:53 And it was, and, and pretty much with the exception of the buddy match, uh, it was on from there. The crowd was into everything from that point on.

1:48:02 Nate, do you want to ask anything of Javier about his rampage night?

1:48:07 Oh, man.

1:48:09 I can't think of anything because, honestly, I kind of want to go back and watch the show. I don't want a whole lot of spoilers, to be honest with you.

1:48:16 Yep. Yeah, yeah.

1:48:18 No, no.

1:48:20 That's totally fair. Because I know some people had to make choices tonight, including baseball fans and hockey fans and such. They might be watching a lot of stuff on DVR this weekend. Was there a crowd response that surprised you at all tonight in terms of more or less than you thought? CM Punk, Junior Dos Santos, just... You know, some of the names, maybe there's more or less than you might have expected.

1:48:44 Well, in the order that they record, you know, they did the stuff. Obviously, you had the buy-in and then the rampage. And I don't think, spoiler, you know, the order of the matches. So CM Punk followed Daniel Bryan and Suzuki.

1:48:57 And that was.

1:48:58 God, I did it in a.

1:48:59 Don't.

1:49:01 Worry about it. Okay, here's... Javier, I want to give everyone permission. If you say Daniel Bryan... we are past the stage where it's cool to make a big deal out of it. Just go forward. It's, it's like, you know, it's like saying happy new year to someone on January 23rd. It's just like, stop it. That was so last week.

1:49:18 It's okay. We're going to do it. We're going to get it wrong. Now, Adrian Adonis is a whole other thing.

1:49:23 Yeah.

1:49:23 Adrian Adonis is a whole different thing.

1:49:28 It feels like I just got Daniel Bryan, you know, cause I was calling him Brian Danielson for like ever.

1:49:35 Yeah.

1:49:36 So it feels like.

1:49:36 It just got into my system. It's kind of like if you're one of those people who get used to saying, who are still saying 2020 like I wrote in something the other day, 2020 is a year win.

1:49:51 But yeah, right after that.

1:49:54 Match, I'm like, man, CM Punk has got to follow this.

1:49:58 And I'm like, I don't know what it's going to be like.

1:50:01 All of a sudden he came out and I'm like, oh, he's just being punk. That's all he needs to do is just be punk. That was definitely one of the biggest pops that we've heard since my brother and I were discussing whether it was The Rock or Stone Cold.

1:50:23 Well, rank the pop. Javier, rank the ring entrance pops. What was the top tier? Can you put them in order? Who was next tier? Because Jericho's out there. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of big names.

1:50:36 Yeah, so on the show, CM Punk was... CM.

1:50:41 Punk and Daniel Bryan, I think, were almost equal.

1:50:45 My brother keeps doing that. They were both about equal in.

1:50:50 And, uh, but CM Punk had the extended, it like just went on for like the entire entrance and all throughout that.

1:50:57 Okay.

1:50:58 Uh, who would you say the third person was?

1:51:00 Third person, probably Jericho. Jericho, probably.

1:51:04 Jericho, not a pop, but Lambert was just, I mean, the jeers for the guy. I was saying that we could hear what he was saying.

1:51:13 Yeah, I didn't hear a word he was saying.

1:51:15 We didn't hear a word he was saying.

1:51:16 It was that loud.

1:51:17 Yeah, so he also got a massive reaction. And I think, oh, Tony Khan got a massive reaction.

1:51:25 And so did... Well, I mean, she had a big one too, but not.

1:51:29 Like on that level. And when Sammy Guevara got a hot tag, I mean that, you know, that was another hot moment and everything he did.

1:51:39 He showed great fire tonight too. I noticed that in the background. You know, I'm waiting for Sammy to kind of find his legs as a baby face who isn't just, you know, happy because I got a fiance and happy because of this and happy because my friend got a contract. Like he's got a, you know, they got to give him something to sink his teeth into and, and, Being in a hot tag match and showing that fire with hot tags just shows, you know, it's a building block of being an undersized but really athletic babyface.

1:52:04 The other one, Wardlow, who was on Dark, got, like, a mixed reaction where it was, like, booze.

1:52:12 And there was also a lot of cheering for him, too.

1:52:15 Anything else?

1:52:16 Else up the year.

1:52:17 Uh what was oh who was that that wardlow was wrestling again you know oh.

1:52:22 Uh wardlow wrestled someone from um i heard a i heard a uh a quick uh gcw chant oh sure give me a second let me check my notes uh where are you.

1:52:37 Will austin i'm not familiar with him but there was a gcw champ okay when he was out uh and so there.

1:52:44 Was there was a chant, there was a chant.

1:52:46 And then the same people who were chanting that when Wardlow came out started saying, please don't die.

1:52:51 Wow.

1:52:52 So, uh, that was fun.

1:52:54 Uh, in terms of like Miami was interesting because, uh, they would start chance in English and then realize we're in Miami and then switch to Spanish.

1:53:06 So they, we start the yes chant and.

1:53:09 Then like stop the yes chant and go with C. Um, They would start one more time and then stop and go otra vez. There was a count out spot where they started counting in English and about halfway they switched to Spanish. Some interesting stuff going on. I'm assuming if you were watching it was on mute. I don't know what they're going to do because there's a lot of salty language going on. um particularly with uh you know you could you could imagine you could you could imagine with uh dan lambert what kind of language you know thrown at well.

1:53:46 Let me ask let me ask you how about how about ruby so how about ruby soho she's been she was a bit you know anticipated and welcome signing um but you know not at the level obviously of of of punk and danielson especially and nor cole but how did the crowd respond to her.

1:54:03 Well, when her music started, the people were into it. They were into her entrance. You know, people singing along with it. I don't know how much was the song and how much was her, to be honest. But, you know, they were appreciative of her. But this was after both the Danielson-Tazuki and then CM Punk-Seidel matches. Right before Top Team and Inner Circle. So it was definitely the comedown match, and everybody went to concessions, that sort of thing. So although, I'm not going to spoil it, there was something at the end of that that got the crowd back into it, something that happens. But when the crowd got reinvested, The one thing I didn't want to bring up, because Tom Martin talks a lot about this, about how people go

1:55:00 watch a match and the way that they consume it is that they're watching something entertaining and they're not really watching it to see someone kick somebody's ass. That top team match with Inner Circle, that felt like the people really wanted to see Inner Circle kick top teams' ass.

1:55:19 So it was definitely, like, the.

1:55:21 People were way more into that match in terms of, like, pulling for the babyfaces than pretty much any match that's been a long time.

1:55:30 And that's a credit to Dan Lambert. It's also a credit to Ethan Page and Scorpio Sky, who have been really effectively, to me, obnoxious heels who you want to see get their asses kicked. iPhone users, if you're listening to us on the native podcast app on your iPhone, You can unlock our commercial-free versions of our free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts. You'll see a charcoal gray logo that says PWTorch VIP on it. Click on that.

1:55:56 There's some free samples of VIP shows, and you can unlock the entire VIP lineup, which includes VIP exclusives plus commercial-free versions of the free shows by searching PWTorch in Apple Podcasts and clicking on the PWTorch VIP logo. and then activate your three-day free trial. And after that, you can become a VIP member using your Apple account. It's that easy. Enjoy a streamlined listening experience to our free shows and unlock all the VIP exclusives, including our post-pay-per-view roundtables, the Wade Keller news bulletins, everything with Rich and Wade, the fix that I host with Todd Martin, and a variety of other VIP exclusives. Just search PWTorch in your Apple Podcast app. How did Junior Dos Santos look in

1:56:41 that environment? Did it seem, oh, I'm a celebrity, this is tongue-in-cheek, I'm at fantasy wrestling camp, can't wait to laugh with my friends about this? Or did it seem like he had a knack for it? And a knack for kind of giving off the right energy and approach to the tone of the match.

1:56:59 How would you say, Josh?

1:57:01 I mean, as far as his look, he looked like a million bucks.

1:57:06 But then, like, there was a lot of.

1:57:09 Like, the way that he moved in the ring, he was trying to adapt a lot of his MMA-style fighting in with his wrestling. And it just looked like he was just throwing potatoes at people. I think he may have taken, like, one or two bumps that was messy.

1:57:25 Yeah, I mean, green, obviously.

1:57:27 Right.

1:57:28 You know, would be.

1:57:29 But, I mean, in terms of how he carried himself, it didn't feel like fantasy camp.

1:57:34 It felt like.

1:57:36 you know, he was trying to, you know, get across these for those two. And in terms of potato, it was, you know, what Jericho's fine with those, you know, and I think Jericho.

1:57:47 Would rather get hit for real.

1:57:49 So it looks good.

1:57:51 Then, you know, not, you know, that didn't have like bad, you know, you know, bad, bad punches. I mean, and most of the stuff he did was just like throw punches and stuff like that. And a couple, you know, it's what you would expect for someone who's, you know, put into you know, not put into that position because I think he's actually interested, but, you know, like early on and, you know, fairly protected and stuff like that.

1:58:12 Sure.

1:58:13 I thought that the one that felt that ring more would probably be Jorge Masvidal. Like, he looked like he was really into it almost to the point that I'm thinking that might be the match.

1:58:24 Down the road.

1:58:26 Yeah.

1:58:27 Yeah, that's kind of what that felt like.

1:58:29 Um, and, uh, uh, is it Paige Van Sant who's been with them?

1:58:34 I think it was her.

1:58:35 Uh, she just looks like she's getting more and more into things.

1:58:42 Cool.

1:58:43 Uh, she looked amazing in this, but, uh, but yeah, I mean, it was, it was total fun. I mean, uh, I, I did hear like my same thought as we were leaving, there was a group of guys that were saying, uh, that they were surprised how good Rampage was because they thought that was going to be the weaker show of the two nights, but that they thought that Dynamite is looking weaker than Rampage.

1:59:06 Yeah.

1:59:06 So, particularly with the stuff that's been announced.

1:59:10 They had their incentive, you know, to bring it on. You know, it was the SmackDown battle, a little more inspired than you, plus a bad rating last week, you know, bad viewership number last week. So, you know, I think the thought is, well, if Dynamite, you know, flops on Saturday, well, it's Saturday. But Rampage in its normal time slot after a weak week, after a down week last week, and then you're trying to go to war with SmackDown on FS1. Yeah, I understand them bringing it a bigger show than Dynamite this weekend.

1:59:40 And I'm wondering if they're recording Rampage tomorrow because next week Dynamite's on Saturday again, right?

1:59:47 Oh, yeah.

1:59:48 Yeah. I'm not going to think that far ahead.

1:59:50 They're going to have a Rampage.

1:59:52 That's too far ahead. I got Crown Jewel between now and then. My brain is too full. I'll leave that to people who want to attend. Figure out that.

2:00:03 If they are recording Rampage tomorrow, then, you know, it might fill up the day better.

2:00:08 You know what I mean?

2:00:09 Sure.

2:00:09 Yeah.

2:00:09 No, that makes sense.

2:00:10 Yeah.

2:00:10 If you have like three.

2:00:12 Yeah.

2:00:13 So, because I think the only thing they have announced is Dante Martin versus, who's he wrestling?

2:00:20 I forgot.

2:00:22 Malachi Black.

2:00:24 It's Bobby Fish and Brian Danielson. The Lucha Brothers versus the Mast Wrestling Team.

2:00:35 Yep.

2:00:37 And what else was there?

2:00:39 I can't remember what else.

2:00:41 Yeah, there was another match that was mentioned, plus the announcement of the Eliminator Tournament. I'm assuming it's got to be more than just that. And, you know, there's rampage. And the only complaint I had about the lead-up to it is that it felt like they didn't really promote that, like promote what was going on.

2:01:04 I think they.

2:01:05 Probably would have been able to sell more tickets if, you know, they had a better idea of what's going on this weekend. And the building was a lot more full than I thought it was going to be, because when I was.

2:01:18 Checking the site, I.

2:01:22 Think Sunday, the building was like half empty. And I think they ended up, I would say like.

2:01:29 75 to 80 percent, more or less.

2:01:31 And sections that had been not open for sale had people in it. So I think they might have opened up sections. They must have sold a bunch, you know, in the lead up to Rampage, probably after some of the announcements.

2:01:42 All right, well, Javier, we'll be talking to you tomorrow night after Dynamite. So we'll check in then and compare the two shows.

2:01:48 Yeah.

2:01:49 All right. So, uh, uh, talking to you, even though it was a smackdown, I'm going to go watch that now.

2:01:55 And, uh, thanks to this alleged brother that sprung on us.

2:02:01 He'll be on tomorrow too, probably.

2:02:03 I make random appearances.

2:02:07 I think it's Javier just throwing his voice.

2:02:08 All right, take care.

2:02:10 We'll talk to you tomorrow night.

2:02:11 Take care.

2:02:14 Oh, now you're breaking up.

2:02:14 All right, cool. Thanks, Javier.

2:02:17 All right, Nate.

2:02:18 All right.

2:02:19 We've gone really long, so I'm going to more point people towards your PWT Talks NXT shows, because my producer will kill me if I don't get this over to him soon here to get posted tonight. But NXT 2.0, thumbs up, thumbs down, thumbs in the middle so far, and then we'll plug your podcast for people to hear the long-form take on those shows.

2:02:38 I'm going to say it's a little bit of a thumbs in the middle, but... kind of sort of pointing down um i uh i'm not really i'm not really digging it yet um but i think it does have some potential um but it's certainly not the nxt that i have uh that i know and love so were you i will.

2:02:56 Leave it at that were you thumbs in the middle or slightly up or enthusiastically up or slightly down before the switchover like how did you feel about the last one to three months of nxt 1.0.

2:03:08 So for me anyway, it was, I was about thumbs in the middle, slightly leaning up. It was more of a, more of on the hit side for me. I liked what they were doing and everything. This kind of new switch to more of a raw and SmackDown light is it's, it's lacking for me. It's lacking this past week was, was a bit better, but I'm willing to give them a few more weeks to kind of get in a swing of things and kind of figure things out.

2:03:37 And with this new, branding. Um, but as of right now, I'm, I'm not overly impressed.

2:03:43 All right.

2:03:44 Very good.

2:03:44 So, uh, how can people follow you on social media?

2:03:47 So you guys can find me on social media at Nate Lindbergh on Twitter. Uh, and I, I do the, uh, I do the NXT hits and misses as well as PWT talks NXT on the daily cast.

2:03:57 So you can find me there as well.

2:03:59 You can follow me on Twitter, by the way, at the Wade Keller, and you can follow our brand at P W torch.com. So yeah, check out our coverage, our written coverage of SmackDown and Rampage and the buy-in, including the Bryan Danielson-Suzuki match. And then I'll have my live coverage of Dynamite Saturday night, tomorrow night. So check that out at PWTorch.com or even better, go VIP and get our ad-free website at PWTorchVIP.com with not only an ad-free website with all the free content for PWTorch.com, but bonus content also. podcasts and articles and newsletters. So go VIP, pwtorch.com slash go VIP for full information. There's three tiers of benefits at our Patreon page, also patreon.com slash pwtorchVIP or

2:04:50 the full VIP experience, including all our archives at pwtorch.com slash go VIP. Nate, thank you so much. It's a pleasure having you back on in the co-host chair. Fun night and a diverse mix of topics, certainly.

2:05:04 Absolutely. Absolutely. Pleasure. A pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me back.

2:05:08 So you can hear Nate Lindbergh every Tuesday night by searching PWTorch on your podcast app. That will bring up the PWTorch Dailycast, a different show on a different topic every day of the week. There's a different show for every day of the week. And Tuesday nights slash Wednesday mornings is the PWT Talks NXT show. Tom Staup and Kelly Wells and Nate are often together, all three, on occasion, just two of them. and some guest hosts, too, when called for, along with live calls and emails and extended, in-depth, authoritative, opinionated analysis on NXT. So check it out.

2:05:46 Us opinionated?

2:05:47 Yeah, exactly. All right. Thanks to all our listeners. Thanks to all of our callers. And until next time, Wade Keller signing off. Your time is valuable. Go VIP and listen to our shows commercial free. A nice streamlined listening experience. PWTorch.com slash go VIP for full details on a commercial free listening experience. And with a full VIP membership, you can create custom feeds for individual shows or groups of shows by theme and also unlock nearly four decades of archives and access our ad free website with VIP exclusive content. PWTorch.com slash go VIP or Your time is valuable, and that's one of the reasons we offer VIP membership, pwtorch.com slash govip.

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