Charlotte and Harry Forever! with Evan Handler (S6 E4 "Pick-a-Little Talk-a-Little")

0:01 Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Welcome back, everybody, to Are You a Charlotte? Evan Handler, part two. Thanks for joining us. Here we go. Okay, let's rewatch a little bit. Let me ask you about this.

0:17 I didn't know we were going to do this. Oh, you didn't?

0:19 No. Oh, is it okay?

0:20 Fine, yeah, sure.

0:21 Okay, great, great. Because I love to rewatch with people, actors who are on it, because it's fun. You know what I mean? And people like rewatch. It's weird for me to rewatch sometimes, but also sometimes I have like, really, it's very interesting. You know what I mean? Like stuff you don't remember at all. It's really interesting. Can I ask you? So, so what, because I had forgotten about you and Liz having a previous relationship, when you watch the burger of it all, what do you think about burger and Ron playing burger or whatever? Like, do you like that character?

0:54 And how do you mean in relation to me and Liz?

0:56 What does that have to do with Liz? I think of Liz because she and that other guy whose name I lose all the time wrote the, he's just not that into you. And then they had the book, right? In my mind, she is Integrally associated with this phase of the show, you know, that she was new. She hasn't come on the podcast yet. She's coming, but she's in production, as you said. So, and I love Liz.

1:19 I think Liz is fantastic. But like, to me, when Liz shows up is also kind of when Berger shows up and she wrote these lines that were then made a book and a movie and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'd forgotten that you and she had had a thing and whatever that that was. I'd forgotten all of this.

1:36 When you watch Burger, what do you think about Burger?

1:40 I'm censoring myself. I know.

1:47 It's hard. It's hard.

1:48 I'm sorry.

1:48 Did I put you on the spot? I'm sorry.

1:50 What is it you're trying to elicit? You have some idea, I think.

1:54 Genuinely, I'm so torn about Burger in so many ways. I had only really remembered Burger. the bold strokes of Berger, right? The post-it, he's just not that into you. I had forgotten almost everything else, right? So when I rewatch it, I'm like, the motorcycle, do you remember all this? But I'd also forgotten that he was a writer and that they kind of meet on this intellectual level, which was totally different than Aiden and Big, right? So he's very, very, very aggressively different, which I know that's What they were trying to do, obviously.

2:29 Right.

2:30 And then Ron is a very different type of an actor. And I think he pulls it off really well. Like you have to believe that this guy could write like a Pulitzer Prize winning novel or whatever. So it's a lot.

2:41 Right.

2:41 And I do believe that Ron, you know, Ron acts kind of from a. dry intellectual place, not like a heart centered, like how I would describe John Corbett as kind of a heart centered actor. Do you know what I'm saying? Not that he's not intelligent and everything, but like he, there's so much emotion in John at all times. Obviously, Chris, I would not describe that way. He's, I don't even know what I would describe Chris as, but whatever, something complicated. But, you know, Ron was just so, different and as were you right so in some ways also i think of both of you coming on to the show him first then you but like we're branching out we're trying to get different men in their different vibes and we do

3:24 we do get it but then it's also like kind of jarring sometimes like when i watch burger and carrie i'm like whoa what is happening.

3:32 Yeah it's hard to i'm hesitant to be you know just because i don't want to criticize no no the writing or no of course because you know, it's all proven itself.

3:44 Of course.

3:44 But I think the burger stuff, sometimes what I remember and what I just watched last night feels a little off balance. Like, like the part where she says, I love you. You know, they say I love you to each other. And that kind of comes a little bit of surprise out of nowhere. You're like, what?

4:02 Yeah.

4:03 Agreed. I think the, I think, I think the, the, I think the misfires that happened between them work more successfully than the connection. 100%. And so you're wondering, why are they so connected? And if that had been reversed, if you really saw them connect, and then the misfires start to happen. So maybe that's a.

4:27 Little out of balance. That's so well put. That's so well put. And I think also, and I would have to look back, but I know for me rewatching, the chemistry between Sarah and Chris and Sarah and John. It's so intense, right? So that they could write all the different things that happen in the relationship, but the chemistry would kind of win out, you know? And the writing would also bring them back together, right? The relationship itself is not based on chemistry, first of all.

4:56 Well, you can't create much chemistry when a big feature of the relationship is showing you having awkward, silent sex. Totally.

5:04 Right?

5:04 Yes!

5:05 I mean, that was almost insurmountable.

5:08 It makes it tough.

5:09 Yes.

5:10 I felt the same thing. Yes. Oh, my God.

5:14 I had not remembered that at all. I was like, what is going on? Oh, my God.

5:19 Yes. It's tough in a relationship if you start having awkward, silent sex to get beyond that to anything better. Yes. Although I have triumphed in that way at certain times in my life. Good job. but it can be, it can be difficult to overcome.

5:31 Totally. I would leave. I would leave. I'm not married.

5:34 Right.

5:34 So I can say that, you know what I'm saying? Like if you, I mean, that's, it's a toughie. It's a toughie. Good, good call there. Good call. So you're sharing my thoughts. You're sharing my thoughts and you're, you're really articulating them all. So I appreciate that because I've just been struggling through watching it and going like, how it's so weird. But the thing that I do really appreciate is that, I can see why they were doing what they were doing, the writers, and what they were trying to do, right? Like we needed a totally different guy for Carrie, a totally different guy.

6:03 And he is.

6:04 And then I love some of what they wrote about the success, you know, like his success is going down and her success is going up. And that's so incredibly difficult. So incredibly difficult. And I'm wondering how much of that I haven't had a writer back on since we started watching this phase of the show. I wonder how much of that is because all of the writers are becoming very successful now.

6:28 Right.

6:29 And they're about to steal Jenny and Cindy away.

6:30 And when Liz and I were a couple, she was an actress. She hadn't been writing yet.

6:33 Whoa.

6:33 It was really toward the tail end that she just started working with a few other women in an experimental comedy troupe. And writing some really interesting stuff. And then she wrote a couple of really, really amazing, very unusual plays that got her introduced to Michael.

6:53 Got it, got it, got it.

6:54 And second seems her first writing job. So she was having that experience.

6:58 I didn't realize this, incredible.

7:01 Compared to when we were together and I was getting invited to go out of town all the time and that's a difficult dynamic to sustain.

7:07 Definitely, most definitely. Okay, this page that I have about Carrie's storyline is so incredibly long.

7:25 I remember doing a radio interview years ago with Joan Rivers, who was great. Oh, yeah, yeah. She loved my book, Time on Fire. But she had somebody who kept handing her little cards. And I was sitting there with nothing. And at some point I said, you keep getting handed cards and nobody's giving me information and background.

7:42 Yeah, what did the card say? Did you ever find out?

7:44 I don't know. No, I don't know.

7:45 They probably said, ask him this, ask him that. Or cut short this or whatever. Luckily, we have that power of editing here. So you can always try to keep me on track that way, you know, because sometimes I go way off, as you can imagine. I want to ask you one other thing. It's not about our storyline necessarily.

8:03 It's just come up a couple of times and I can't remember. I think with Molly, in my mind as well, in terms of the writers trying to write something different with Berger and with Harry, one of the things that I remember being stressful and that Molly brought up was that, you know, they wanted you in not great suits, right?

8:20 which also didn't make a ton of sense because you're my divorce lawyer. You're obviously, you have a very highfalutin and you were Bitsy's, you were Bitsy Von Muffling's divorce lawyer as well. Do you remember this?

8:30 Yeah. No, I actually, this was all the walking on eggshell stuff for me at the beginning. Yeah, yeah. Because again, I'm coming into a hugely successful show. One of the most successful elements was Pat Field and the clothes. And I was being given these like, what felt to me at the time, kind of ill-fitting, stiff, not very attractive suits and ugly ties. And she kept, she kept inviting me and thinking, I'm going to show you the greatest thing ever. And I would think it was hideous. And she was, you know, not happy about my lack of enthusiasm, but I was keeping it all to myself. And actually when I rewatched, because then I had convinced myself somehow, why were you so vain? I mean, they wanted this

9:16 guy to be wearing ugly ties. So what? Maybe they were the greatest ugly ties in the world. Why couldn't you appreciate them for what they were? They were not. And last night I watched and it was like an ugly suit.

9:25 Totally. It was a very ugly suit. It was very ugly.

9:28 So these were just things that I just, you know, said, you need to keep your mouth shut and roll with it. And, you know, you're in their hands.

9:36 Right. That's all. And that is true on a show in general, right? Like, we're all in their hands, right? Like, I also had my own journey with Pat that was rough in the beginning because she did not like my body, which I pretty much said, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, don't get me started.

9:54 We need to have a word with her.

9:55 Well, I think it's fine now. I think over time, because, you know, we have had relationships with all these people for a very long time, as you know. But Pat, you know, Pat just has no filter, right? She just says stuff. Whatever is on her mind, she says. And she had come from a world where, you know... she was in charge of everything, right? Like she had her store.

10:17 And if she did a fashion show, she hired the people. And you know what I'm saying? It was her vision without being watered down or changed or filtered or anything like that.

10:25 Right.

10:26 And she would just be just so frustrated with my curves because at the time when we started 1998 or whatever it was, 1997, you know, everything was straight, like straight. And I've never been straight, nothing, no amount of dieting. Like when I watch back and there are some episodes where, Not so much when you come. When you come, I think, I mean, I'm dieting for sure, but I think I'm feeling better. Everyone needs to just calm down. You know what I'm saying? This is just what it's going to be, right?

10:55 Kristen. Yes, Evan. Whenever anybody says, oh, you're that guy from Sex and the City. You were with the gorgeous ones. Oh, sweet.

11:04 Thank you.

11:04 Thank you.

11:05 Thank you. Yeah, I needed those people in my fittings with Pat. But I had Molly Rogers. And Molly, that's why Molly and I have this everlasting relationship. you know, intense closeness. But at the point that you come along, we have like, like when I watched our wedding, like it's, I love that dress.

11:21 It's beautiful.

11:22 Like, like everything's working and I have hips and it's fine.

11:25 It fits.

11:26 It's good. You know what I mean? I think she had to just like, surrender that i was just going to be curvy and it took some time like no amount of dieting because there was a time earlier in the show where like you can see my my ribs like like i had dieted it was like later in the season and it was one of those hot summers and i just remember i just ate m & ms i just ate m & ms like for a couple weeks i don't know why i didn't lose my mind or whatever and like i have no breasts left like it's just like bones and she was like great you know Like, oh yeah, did you not know that I was going through that?

11:57 I'm trying to equate how eating M & Ms and having no breasts left go together. I don't know.

12:03 What I mean is that I wasn't eating any real food. No, no, but it wasn't healthy. And I did go to this acupuncturist one time. He was like, don't put that in your mouth. And I was like, why not? It's all I eat. Because I had read that ballet dancers smoke cigarettes and eat candy bars. So I was like, well, if they can do it, I can do it. But I wasn't smoking a cigarette.

12:22 I mean, I don't know what it was. I guess I do kind of know what it was. It was a couple of different... It was partly me and my personality, but a couple of different health issues at the time. But I mean, I. I was heavier in my 40s, which means from Sex and the City through the first some seasons of Californication.

12:41 And I don't know why it took me till suddenly around 50 years old and I said, what is this about? And I just slimmed down, you know? Yeah. So watching those episodes, you know, it's like, oh yeah, look, you know, I had a gut.

12:53 But you look fantastic.

12:56 Not in what I watched last night.

12:58 Oh, I think you did.

12:59 No, I looked okay in the Harry Naked Everywhere thing.

13:03 Yeah.

13:03 But, but, uh, uh, no.

13:05 You didn't think you looked okay?

13:06 With the hairy back?

13:07 Oh, no, the hairy back's horrible, but the hairy back's not you. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? No, they wanted you to be like that.

13:14 Yeah, I know. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I didn't think I, but then the first few seasons of Californication and then suddenly I was like, all right, enough of that.

13:22 Got it. But I mean, you've gone through so much with your health. I, I, Shame on anyone who would say anything to you about anything like this.

13:32 In my mind. No, I used to go out to dinner in New York and people would sit. People would actually say to me, they'd say, you look so much fatter on the show.

13:39 They would say it to me as well.

13:40 You don't know whether to say thank you to that or not. Totally.

13:43 Evan, for years and years, this is all they would say to me. They'd walk up to me and they would say- You're not fat.

13:47 Exactly.

13:48 Exactly. I know. And you would just be like, okay. Anything else you want to say to get us out of this moment? Like, it's so awkward.

13:58 You know what I mean?

13:59 But yes, I went through that for quite some time also. Yes, it's very difficult. All right, here we are. Let's rewatch a little bit. Wait, okay. So wait, this is when, oh, this is the Shabbat dinner. Oh man, I listened to me doing that Hebrew. I don't think I did it very well, even though we had like three advisors.

14:17 I wouldn't be the person to be able to tell you.

14:20 I love that. I don't think.

14:21 I didn't grow up with that stuff.

14:23 Exactly.

14:24 Right.

14:24 No, I think I knew that too, because I was like, he doesn't even care, which thank God.

14:27 Right.

14:27 Thank God. Because if I felt like you were judging me also, do you know what I mean? But I remember what happened was we had gotten these different advisors. So it was like one person knew one person and then a different writer knew a different writer, a different advisor who were going to help me, but they would disagree on pronunciation. And then I would just be like, ah, And remember when we did it on Just Like That, finally, Julie and Elisa would just advise me themselves. So at least I had them and I trusted them and they were on my side and I wasn't so panicked because it can just send you into a whole panic. And what I also remember about that scene, I remember being so worried about it because of course, also I want

15:04 it to be beautiful and wonderful so that people who are Jewish don't hate me, right? In the audience. And I remember I do it, I'm so scared, so scared. And also I have to have the emotional side of it and all that. So I'm trying to get it all together. And then we cut to you, we do your side. And then they're like, oh no, Kristen, we have to do this again. And I was like, oh no, we can't because the Hebrew is gone, okay? Like the second that you finished my coverage, it's flown out of my mind. We can't go back. We can't go back.

15:31 And they were like devastated.

15:33 I don't remember any of this.

15:34 Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. It's just one of those things where I just felt like I should be better at this. I should somehow be better at speaking foreign languages than I am. for my job, which requires us to do a lot of weird things or whatever, but it's just not one of my easy, easy things. You know what I mean?

15:54 I think you got a much longer column of great moments and comedic bits than mispronounced Hebrew words.

16:03 No, definitely, definitely, definitely. But you know, I'm very type A. I want everything to be great. I want everything to be perfect, obviously. But I mean, so does Charlotte, right? So you can't even separate Do you remember when we, so remember the hairy back is because I take you to Julie Bitsy's wedding in the Hamptons, but it wasn't the real Hamptons. And we're there and you get me to dance on the dance floor. Do you remember all this?

16:28 I do remember that pretty well.

16:29 That was fun. But it was also really hot when we were at the pool.

16:33 I remember I wore my own suit.

16:34 You did?

16:35 I pitched that suit. It was a suit I had bought in Paris years before.

16:38 Oh, it was good.

16:39 A cream cotton suit.

16:42 It looked great.

16:43 It was a nice suit. Yeah.

16:44 There you go.

16:45 Good job. Nathan was there. Nathan.

16:47 Yes, exactly. Exactly.

16:49 And that was, that was, then I guess I asked you to dance and the girls give their approval. Yes. I think, I think you undersold this one or something.

16:55 Definitely. Yes. Well, because I think that's also why they were trying to get you to be so kind of extreme in the scene in the bed, because I go to a coffee shop and I say, I just don't know if I can be seen in public with them. Right. Like it's a pretty big statement. So I think they wanted you to make sure you back that up.

17:14 That's also the scene where I say I have to marry a Jew, right? Yes. Yeah. Which is harsh.

17:21 I know. And you say it so casually.

17:24 Yeah.

17:25 And I didn't think when I watched it back, I don't think, I don't know if I really respond properly to that. You know what I mean?

17:34 I don't remember the response because I didn't watch that.

17:37 It's not big. It's not big. And I think partly because we're in this beautiful setting, everything's so amazing. And also she'd just been through hell with the other one, right? And I think I just look like confused, like, huh, what? And you have no idea that this whole massive drama is going to start up.

17:55 I mean, those are very foreign concepts to me anyway, you know, requiring people to join your religious brand.

18:02 Listen, me as well.

18:03 I don't, I don't, I don't understand. Totally. How much it can mean if you can switch from one to the other. Totally.

18:10 And then, and then when we break up and I'm still a Jew, and then I go to the Jewish mingle, it's very interesting. I mean, the whole thing is very interesting, but I do have so many people who still talk to me about it, that it's sweet about their spouse converting for them or them converting for their person or whatever, and how much it means to them. And, You know, so good.

18:31 I know. I know. I know. I've seen it. I've seen it in family members. I've seen it in friends.

18:35 Yeah. Right.

18:37 Just talking about myself.

18:39 And me as well. I mean, I'm not even married, as you know. So there's a lot of things that Charlotte cares about that I do not care about. But you just do your best to imbue it with the depth needed. Right. Substitute or whatever. Yeah. All right. Oh, let's talk about Jason for a second. So we're also into the Smith Jared, though he's still Jerry Jared, I think at this point. Also a very different guy. Like this is what I'm really appreciating from the writer.

19:05 He was good in what I watched last night.

19:07 So fantastic.

19:07 I think I was more skeptical of him back then. And what I saw last night, he was- Incredible. Naturally easy, charming. Yeah.

19:14 So much so, like I had no idea at the time. What I remember is when we, you're not with us, when we go to see him in the play where he's naked- And they made him bend over.

19:24 Right.

19:25 I was just so mortified for him. And I was so mad at our guys. I was like, cut him a break. Yeah, I didn't have so much.

19:32 Sympathy for him. You didn't? Well, he arrived on set and it was like a boat tilted. It was like the female population of the entire- And the male.

19:43 And the male.

19:44 Whatever.

19:46 Everyone, basically.

19:48 The whole- It's true. I thought he's going to be just fine.

19:57 I just felt that... And he's been on the podcast and we talked in depth about it. And he has really interesting things to say about it because he had been a model, right? So he had been objectified in all of the things that mostly beautiful women go through, right? And he has really fascinating things to say about it.

20:14 My feeling was... because there was so much pressure on him, right? Because of what you're saying, like the whole, everyone flirted with him. Everyone was like, Jason's here, Jason's here. Like the level of like, blah, you know? And I mean, that's just like so much pressure and you've got to act and everyone's, it's just a lot, you know? And then not only that, they put you up there. There's a, Theater full of people, all of us, but also all 500 extras, whatever. He's got to act in what appears to be a horrific play until he gets this monologue that is not even like necessarily so brilliant, but he does it so beautifully. And then he has to bend over naked. I'm just like, guys, guys, what are you

20:56 doing to this kid? But he handled it so incredibly well. And I remember just thinking like, how is he doing this? But I had no idea until rewatching it. how incredible is actual acting is, you know, like it's just effortless and he's so present and so are you. And that's the other thing that I think about in terms of like, yes, there were all these kinds of ideas about Harry, right?

21:22 Like Harry's this and he's gross and he's got a big tie and whatever, all these kinds of external ideas put onto you. But the thing that made it work was your presence, right? And your energetics, your energy was so different than everyone else's and than anyone that I'd previously had, which was just such a joy. And when I look back, I'm like, that's not easy to do.

21:44 It's amazing. I mean, at the time, that's how I felt. I felt like, thank God, this guy just has it and he's easy. That's what I thought.

21:52 They cast the right guy. They totally did.

21:54 Thank God I was there. Thank God I was there to say like, this one, please.

21:58 Thank you, I know. Oh, yes. I didn't know it came down to that.

22:03 I mean, I don't think I was the deciding thing, but because there had been this other idea that I'd been hearing about for a while as well.

22:09 Speaker 1:

22:11 This one, please, please, Evan, please. Sorry to the other guy, but it just, for me, the vibe that I thought they were describing to me about what they wanted their relationship to be, which is that you were very different, but you were very confident about, I couldn't be having to take care of a nervous person, which is what I was worried about.

22:33 Right.

22:34 Because I didn't think I'd be able to shift. They wanted Charlotte to shift. Right. That was the growth, you know? So if I was having to like caretake, I didn't think it was going to work out and I didn't have to at all.

22:50 Yeah.

22:50 And I am so sorry you were dealing with all this other stuff. I'm going to stop saying that, but, but I am anyway, let's talk about Miranda for a second. What is she even up to? Oh, yes, this is the whole, he's just not that into you. I feel so bad when she goes and tells those girls that he's just not that. Because they're just talking in the way the girls do about the ones like, oh, you know, he hasn't called me for two days, but he has to rewire his kitchen. And that's a big job. She's gifting them.

23:18 She's gifting them. She feels she has new information that's going to.

23:21 I know, but they do not want that information. They do not want that information. It's really interesting because you go like, huh? And it made me think about, like, it's so interesting to watch the young ladies watch the show now, right? Because it's been on Netflix and all.

23:36 Yeah, I don't get a lot of that because I don't have a lot of contact with those young ladies. Right.

23:40 I only do through social media mostly. Yeah. Don't go to Erewhon in the middle of the day is my advice.

23:46 That's funny. I'm at Air One fairly often.

23:48 Are you at the middle of the day when they're all there? Have you ever seen all the girlies descend on Air One to get their drinks?

23:54 I guess not.

23:55 Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot. Okay, it's a lot. It's a lot. Go early or late is my advice. I was like, oh, God, gotta run. Gotta hustle out. They're very sweet, obviously. But they're young. You know, they're young. It's interesting. And they post on social media a lot about so many different things about the show. It's super fascinating to watch. And I mean, because of the podcast, I look at a lot more than I used to. And one of the things that I love, one of the big things, arcs of it all is you know don't panic you're just in season one or season two of sex in the city meaning like they're judging where they are in their lives on their age but we are there to show you no no you have so many more chapters to come don't

24:46 panic which i think is great.

24:49 Right but their existences must be so different i mean you know there was no swiping.

24:55 Oh, no, no. So many different things. But it doesn't necessarily matter because the central questions are the same, right? Like the mechanics are different.

25:05 Well, look, everywhere I go, women tell me, you know, I want to find my Harry. Oh, I know.

25:08 That time you posted about it.

25:10 The only thought that goes through my mind is, you know, how many Harrys have you turned away and how many Harrys did you turn away yesterday? Oh, my God, Evan.

25:17 I know you're just out there trying to kill us.

25:19 You say you want a Harry.

25:20 Ooh. Ooh. Oh, I know you posted that one time. I was like, oh, lordy, lordy, lordy. That might be too much truth, okay? Too much truth for everyone to hear. I don't know. It's kind of like he's just not that into you in a way, opposite way.

25:39 I think they wish they could want a Harry.

25:42 Yes. The idea of a Harry is excellent. Yes.

25:45 Yeah. So seven years of therapy and then you can.

25:48 Or a failed marriage or, you know, whatever Charlotte had to go through. But this is why I love Charlotte so much, right? It's because you don't expect her to grow like this. Right. And yet she does. Right. Thank the Lord.

25:59 Yeah. Right?

26:01 Thank the Lord. Wait, I do have some weird and random questions here. We've covered how different the storyline was.

26:08 I wanted to design a storyline for Harry and Charlotte. Well, what has it been? But they would never do it. They would never do it.

26:12 Well, let's hear it.

26:13 What? Several years ago. Mm-hmm. Elisa and I went to a financial advisor because I had no investments, whatever.

26:22 You didn't? Oh, no.

26:24 And they said, well, you know, you've done really well. You know, you've saved all this money, blah, blah, blah.

26:28 Right.

26:29 And you spend this much a year. You earn this much a year. You spend this much a year. And, you know, without investments, without it growing at this rate, you'll run out of money in 17 years. Oh, Lord. That's a long time. But I was like... I would have been 74 and Elisa would have been 65. That would suck. And I thought, well, come on. Charlotte doesn't want Harry working as much anymore or he doesn't want to keep working. They realize they don't have as much money as they thought they did or enough. They do the same thing and find out that they can't actually sustain what happens to Harry and Charlotte if they feel they have to change the way they live.

27:16 It would be interesting.

27:18 I just think it would never, it's not the world they wanna explore.

27:23 It's true, it's true. I mean, I feel like, look, we don't know what's gonna happen, right? Like I have trouble believing that we're not gonna do one more thing because that's just always how I feel, you know? It's just always how I feel. But also because it's fun to think about what we might do, right? And I do think that it would be interesting And I do feel there was a time we toyed around during, I can't remember which off time it was, but we toyed around with what would happen in general if someone in the group had changing circumstances.

27:58 A financial crash.

27:59 Yes, yes, yes. But I don't know if it was, I don't know if it was that, like sometimes I think like- Well.

28:07 Because I'm going to interrupt you for a second, but you know, The show, I think, eventually struggled under the burden of the extreme wealth.

28:18 I think you're right. I think you're right. And I think that I know that Michael Patrick, so the aspirational element is really what we're talking about. And the aspirational element is a big thing. Like, I don't know. Actually, I probably do know that you probably didn't watch Five Star Weekend.

28:34 No.

28:35 So Five Star Weekend.

28:36 I'm not sure I know what it is.

28:37 It's fine. Five Star Weekend is the fantastic Jennifer Gardner and an incredible cast around her. And she basically plays like an Ina Garten, Martha Stewart type of a character who is married to Josh Hamilton.

28:54 Oh, yeah. I know Josh for many years. Yeah.

28:55 Yes. He's her husband. And the gist of it is he dies suddenly. And she's still trying to recover from this sudden death. They have a grown child together. She lives on Nantucket. It's all incredibly aspirational, is my point. And also she's this, you know, cook, you know, all the things, right? And she finds out through this five-star weekend that she has for her girlfriend that he was having an affair. So then that's devastating on top of that he died suddenly. But then in the end, spoiler alert, if anyone hasn't watched it, there's a good ending. I won't even give it away. I won't even give it away.

29:33 But anyway... There's an aspirational element to all of it because of her lifestyle and they're filming on Nantucket and it's incredibly beautiful. and her house is incredibly beautiful. And I was thinking, would this work if it didn't have that element?

29:46 Right?

29:47 And it's a hard thing in terms of our culture and the desire, like how Elisa said, well, for, for a rom-com, you want to have two incredibly good looking people because that's who you're going to be looking at. And you want to fantasize about them. It's almost the same with the houses and stuff. Right. So then, but I know that Michael Patrick, like when we were doing our final season and we had the time, we didn't get to go, but they went and they filmed the ballet.

30:12 That was super expensive. Right. And HBO was like, that's too expensive. That location is too expensive. And he's like, I have to deliver. this version of New York to our fans, because this is what they expect from us. And I don't think he's wrong.

30:26 Right.

30:27 But it's a burden to be having to do this forever. Right. Like it's hard. That's why I loved. And I mean, social media went crazy about it, but right after big dies, when Carrie doesn't know what to do and she's walking up and down the Island of Manhattan in her like weird outfits, it was so refreshing to, Do you know what I mean? That she wasn't wearing her Carrie glam, right?

30:50 But then of course the internet was like, why is.

30:52 Carrie wearing this?

30:54 Oh my God, what's happened? Well, because big died people, but they didn't know that yet. But you know, it's, it's all, it's very interesting to me. And I, I wish that there was a way because to me, what would be interesting is, okay, there are characters we know from over time who had all these things, but now what if they don't, what are they going to do?

31:13 That's a big question. It's interesting question. Yeah. yeah i would love to see that.

31:18 Yeah i think it'd be interesting to see them i think it'd be interesting to struggle with and it doesn't mean you have to make them you.

31:23 Know like destitute or no that would be upsetting um um and.

31:28 But it's touchy because i mean if you get into it if you really treat it comedically right like how do these very wealthy people try to cut back in the silliest of ways that could be insulting as well to people who that's true it's a I'd find it interesting to see these people confront at least. Yeah.

31:49 Not having everything.

31:51 What we've taken for granted isn't necessarily.

31:53 Absolutely.

31:54 Forever.

31:55 Absolutely.

31:56 Absolutely.

31:56 I think that's really good. I mean, I do think though that the, it's so hard to understand, right. What fans would want from us. Right. Because like one of the, complaints about it just like that was that it didn't that it wasn't the tone of Sex and the City but Michael felt very strongly that we could not possibly do the tone of Sex and the City because that would be weird because we're older and we're going through different things do you remember that documentary we did about going back to work with that adorable Frenchman Who's always around with his camera. No. Okay, that's cool. Don't worry.

32:40 I'm not sure I do remember this.

32:41 It's totally fine. So there's a documentary.

32:43 I'm sorry, adorable Frenchman.

32:45 Oh my God, the sweetest man in the world. Fabien Constant. It's adorable. I think it's called something like... And just like that, the documentary.

32:54 Several committee meetings.

32:56 Most definitely. Most definitely. It has the tone of Sex and the City.

33:02 Interesting.

33:03 Which was super interesting because... obviously we can still do that tone, right? Michael just didn't want to do that tone. But in my mind, what would be nice for a final chapter when I'm afraid we're going to have to wait till we're like gray, at least over here, not you, you know, is if we could somehow have like, you know, there's movies that have like Mary Steenburgen and Candace Bergen and I don't know, Jane Fonda. And, you know, it's like they're traveling or whatever. Wouldn't it be fun to do that? We could go on like a trip to Italy.

33:38 Wouldn't that be great?

33:40 Yeah. Well, it's gone to Paris twice. Nobody's invited me.

33:43 I know. Darn it.

33:44 Me neither.

33:44 Me neither. We got to run across.

33:48 Although they sounded like pretty rushed trips.

33:50 It was very rushed and everyone got sick because they ate the cheese just like our characters did.

33:54 It happened to me in Paris, yes.

33:55 And that happened to you? For real?

33:57 That's funny.

33:57 It has never happened to me because when I go, I'm scared to eat anything. I don't eat raw cheese anymore.

34:00 I don't eat raw cheese.

34:01 I know, right? Because we've learned our lesson from the storylines.

34:04 I had a bad trip from Paris back to London.

34:06 Oh, rough, man. Rough. But the thing that's, I think it's just interesting because the tone of everything is something that is created by a lot of people, the editor, you know, the score, like so many different things, right? But mostly Michael Patrick and or each director, right? Do you remember that time? I just want to talk to you about this because you were there and I haven't talked to anyone else about this on the podcast. Do you remember that time that we went to Whatever island we went to, Governor's Island maybe?

34:35 Governor's Island, oh yeah.

34:35 Was it Governor's Island?

34:36 It was hot like today, yeah.

34:37 I mean, we thought we were going to die.

34:38 It was really, really hot.

34:39 We didn't think we were going to make it. And do you remember how they wanted to light that bonfire?

34:42 They wanted to light the bonfire, yes. And do you remember- And I keep bringing up illness, but I was just getting over COVID. Were you really? I was just back up on my feet, yeah.

34:50 Did I know this?

34:51 I think so.

34:52 I was so worried about you, but the kids as well, because the kids, like we were sitting this close to the bonfire.

34:58 Yeah, that was a tough day.

34:59 I had to go in that tent and I had to say like- And neither Michael nor Melfi were there. I was like, we cannot light the bonfire. And we're just sitting there just trying not to faint, man. Just trying not to faint.

35:13 Yeah, it was well over 100 degrees. It was.

35:15 Yeah. But it looks good on film.

35:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:19 It's crazy. We lived through it.

35:21 We lived through it. And then we shot some of it in a studio. Yeah. Inside the tent.

35:25 Inside the tent.

35:26 Where they didn't have any cooling inside the tent and it became just as hot inside the air-conditioned studio.

35:31 I know, it made no sense.

35:32 As it had been on Governor's Island.

35:33 And that day the crew was like, no, we won't do it. Yeah. Because they had learned. They had learned we had lived through Governor's Island. We were not going to live through it again on a soundstage. It made no sense at all. Like the weirdnesses that go on in production is so weird. But then when you watch it, you have no idea it looks fine.

35:52 Right?

35:52 That's our job. Evan, you're a joy.

35:55 You're a joy.

35:56 Thank you.

35:56 It's so nice to see you. Thanks for having me.

35:58 Thank you for coming with your cute shoes. You world traveler. We'll have to keep tabs on you.

36:05 Yeah, I want to get back on the road.

36:08 You do? Yeah. Where do you want to go?

36:11 I want to go to London.

36:15 London's great.

36:16 Yeah.

36:17 London's great.

36:19 I meant to do more traveling the second half this time, and I was going to go there or stop in Paris on the way home.

36:26 Also great.

36:26 That kind of stuff. So we'll see.

36:29 One more question, Evan. So important. So important. Are you a charlatan?

36:36 It's funny. I just made a joke about this on the way here. My agent texted me about something and I said, I'm on my way to do Are You a Charlotte with Kristen Davis? And I put in parentheses, the short answer is no.

36:47 That's what I would have said. That's exactly what I would have said. That's exactly what I said. I think you're more a Miranda.

36:53 Oh, interesting.

36:54 No? Who do you think you are?

36:56 I think I would be a Carrie with some Miranda elements.

36:59 That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm also some Carrie, some Charlotte, obviously. But like, I think you have that cut, like you can see through things and you cut through the nonsense in a Miranda type of a way. It's a good quality. And then you have the thinking about things like how Carrie does. Yes.

37:17 Well, Carrie's also the artist, you know.

37:19 Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes, definitely. Love it. Love it.