The Dragon's Thanksgiving Special

0:00 You can have Thanksgiving dinner with either the Inner Circle from actor or Violet's friend group from the Imperium. Who are you choosing and why? Inner circle every time. Every time. Specifically at the townhouse. Like none of this House of Wind shit like Thanksgiving at the townhouse. Drive back yesterday I like started having a headache and then suddenly every tail light on the road Oh no was like Spearing into my brain.

0:52 I was like this is perfect. Were you driving exactly what I needed? I didn't drive the second-half because of aforementioned headache. Yeah. And it's like this is not safe. Do you think it was a migraine? What do you think? It was a migraine? I think it became a migraine which I've never had in my life. I haven't either.

1:10 That sounds terrible. I'm sorry. Crazy. I have had. So I recently was acquainted with the term ocular migraines. Are you familiar with this? So I guess you can have ocular migraines where you have the aura like in your vision, but you don't have the pain. And that's happened to me like many times. I just thought that it was like a sign of dehydration. It would happen on the runs frequently. What is this like you see, like, what's the aura? Like you like the edges of your vision are like blurring, not blurry necessarily, like you just don't have vision in certain areas.

1:45 I don't know how to describe it. You just see nothing. You see nothing. It's not black, you just can't see. It's what I imagined not being able to see is like, except for in a specific like area. Interesting. I feel the need to report back on the results of Oedipus. Yeah, please do. My parents are thinking of seeing it.

2:04 My, my mom was like, oh, Ronnie saw that. Totally see it. Should they everyone? Should my parents okay Everyone should see. It I mean, okay, I feel like you should see it if you know the plot of Oedipus. I want to be so clear. If you don't know plot of Oedipus, do not see display or just spoil it for yourself. Yeah, well.

2:25 I was, my mom was like, oh, your dad wants us to go see that. And I was like, but do you know what happens in Oedipus? And she was like, I think so. And then I was like, so you remember like that this happened, that she was like, what? No, I don't want to see that. And I was like, OK, well, that's in the play.

2:42 I don't know. You really need to know So, so last I can't remember there was last week. It was 2 weeks ago, I guess we talked about how I was seeing Oedipus on Broadway and had absolutely, I have no idea what to expect because the promotional material said election night and Oedipus is is a play by Sophocles and it's called Oedipus the King. To be clear, no elections there, no elections. But it was a modern day presentation of Oedipus. It was a studio 54.

3:08 It was fabulous. It was crazy. We saw Nicole Kidman. It was a whole thing which like she is. She really can't go anywhere without being seen. She is very easily detected. She is an imposing figure. Yeah, she really is very you. Want to know what's so funny? I think the moment that you were seeing Oedipus, I think that I is this right?

3:29 Was I watching Frankenstein in movie theaters? And I was watching the Nicole Kidman AMC ad for the movie theaters and you were with Nicole Kidman in the flesh. What are the kids? The day after, because you were telling me that you we saw Frankenstein the night before. Oh, you're right, that is what happened.

3:46 Well, whatever, 24 hours. 24 hours, same we were we were thinking about Nicole Kidman within the same 24. Hours. She's always on my mind if I'm being honest. Like she's always there. She was there, my friend that I was with, like we were getting drinks and she was just like, oh. And I turned around and was like, what are you?

4:05 Oh, it was Nicole Kidman. Anyways, so it was about Oedipus. It was a modern day presentation, which immediately when you find out that it's modern day presentation, you're like, how in goodness's name are they going to make this work? Because I'm so sorry if you don't know the end of. Oedipus. He finds out that he has been fucking his mother the entire time and then he gouged his eyes out.

4:30 So you have to wonder one how is he going to find that out in the modern day? Like how is that not? How do you not know? Extremely obvious. And two, like how is he going to couch his eyes? And I'm not going to spoil it for you, but they pulled it off. They did. Have you seen the lobster? No, I'm not. What's OK?

4:49 Well, there's just. I'm just gonna just. I'm just gonna stop there. Yeah, I'm just gonna stop there. I would not recommend the lobster, but if you've seen it, you know what I'm talking about. No, I wanna know. It's what's his name and I'm going to butcher it. It's so Greek. The guy who's doing all these movies with Emma Stone, like he did the favorite and he did.

5:08 It was like one of his early movies with Colin Farrell, who is my fucking #1 crush? My first crush, Colin Farrell. You watch Mr. Sugar or whatever it's. Called What's Mr. Sugar? Hold on, that's going to be embarrassing. If I got the name with Sugar. Sugar is the name not with Colin Farrell. With Colin Farrell. No, it's really good.

5:26 I really liked it. Well, it's really good. It's interesting. It's really good. It gets interesting. Oh, it's on Apple TV Plus. I only recently got Apple TV Plus, so that's why I haven't seen it. All right, well, we'll add that to the list. But yes, this is Colin Farrell and Rachel Weiss. Who? I like. Rachel Weiss.

5:44 Yeah, who I love, obviously, because I love the Mummy. If you follow us on Instagram, you know that I love the Mummy. So anyway, don't watch The Lobster, actually. We love Colin Farrell, but don't. We love Rachel Weiss, but don't watch the. Lobster, lobster. Interesting. He's got like a weird, he's got kind of like a creepy look going in the lobster, in the lobster. Also, it's Yorgos Lance the most. I mean the lobster grown 87% on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah, it's one of those movies that the critics love. It's like, and I don't watch these types of movies anymore. It's like a movie that's like, goal is to make you feel like pretty deeply uncomfortable.

6:22 And I just like, I don't have the time for that anymore. It's like the world makes me so deeply uncomfortable. Why would I watch a movie that makes me feel that? Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I can't believe it's already Thanksgiving. How's home? You know. You know, I see. OK, All right, moving on. Hi, everyone.

6:42 I'm Ronnie. I'm Abby, and this is direct. My dad is. Playing the fucking piano right now. Like are you fucking kidding me? I can't hear anything, OK. I can hear it. I hope you guys can't hear it all right anyway. Thanksgiving with the fam Home for Thanksgiving. Home for Thanksgiving. This is Dragons in the Details, where we pick apart our favorite fantasy series over the course of an undetermined number of episodes.

7:09 This week is a special week because it's Thanksgiving weekend, so we're doing a special episode in honor of Thanksgiving, both to celebrate the holiday and also give ourselves a bit of a break to spend some time with our families. If you are an OG, you know that we have put out theory content every single week since March 9th, 2025 of. Time.

7:32 And we have full time jobs and that's crazy. So we're just going to yap this week. And so we know you come here for the theories. So if that is the sole reason you tune in every week, then we apologize because this will not be a theory heavy episode. Come back next week. But we will still be talking about romancey books today. So if you are an avid reader and you just like chatting about these things, you could stick around. Also, if you just like us, you could stick around. But if you were here for theory, theories and theories alone, come back next week.

8:02 We're not offended. This is just going to be a cozy little episode. Guys, just a cozy episode, just a little cozy chat. Might I argue it's probably just going to be like a normal podcast, like most people's podcast podcast, like we're going to be today, an average podcast. So the first part of our episode is just going to be some general fun book talk, book talk, TALK, to be clear. Do you know the podcast The Book Talk for Book talk? I don't know Book talk for book talk, but that's a clever podcast name.

8:34 They're. Actually great, I just want to give them a shout out. They like do like kind of similar to what we do, but they actually have English degrees. So they like examine these books from like a literary background and like what the like mechanisms actually are. It's great. You should check them out.

8:49 Love it. So we're going to do just some book talk in the first half, still probably romanticy themed DVD, plus a fun little update on an event we both went to. And then the back half of this episode is going to be our reactions to a series that we both read recently called the Shepherd King duology. That's one dark and two twisted Crowns by Rachel Gillig. So if you happen to have read that or you don't care about being spoiled and you just want to know you're curious, stick around.

9:17 We are still going to attach our a guitar disclaimer, spoilers for all a guitar books in case we want to talk about that in this episode since this is our a guitar season and you probably all have read it. If you know us and you're following this podcast at this point, you probably read actor. So spoilers for all books in the Accord of Thorns and Roses series by Sarah Janas. We are also still adults who curse and are talking about adult books.

9:39 So this episode is still rated R Do not listen with your children, please, please and thank you. OK, we're still doing a fun question because Fun Question is kind of maybe my favorite part of these episodes, second only to Cosm's, which unfortunately I kind of didn't think to include Cosm's in this episode. No, it's OK, We'll come back to.

9:57 Cosm's next. Week we're gonna have next week. Cosm's are really more of like a theory. Theory. They're little bonus theories, yeah. Yeah. OK, Fun question of this week is also Thanksgiving themed. OK, Abby, you can have Thanksgiving dinner with either the Inner Circle from actor or Violet's friend group from the Imperium. Who are you choosing and why?

10:21 Inner circle every time, every time. I don't know like I just they inner circle like they're just more fun. Not even for Riddick. Yeah, I mean, me too. I'd rather hang out with Cassian than Riddick. Why? I don't know. They're adults. I mean, I love Violet, but she's a child and they've got like 500 years of stories to tell. I mean ferret I think is younger than Violet to be fair. Do you think Ferret?

10:50 Yeah, Pharaoh was 19 when it started. Yeah, I know, but. But everybody else is like 500. Plus. 500 plus, so the average age really comes up. If I'm being honest, I think that the I think that the friendships in Sarah J Mass's books are stronger. I got Now I'm getting a fucking phone call. Stronger than the friendships. And phone call and do not disturb. Because it's Derek, for whatever reason, Derek can just get through my do not disturb.

11:19 I don't know why I never like set that up that way. I know it's sketchy, right? Anyway, I would say inner circle. I just, I just think I vibe with them more like they have good banter. Like, I don't think the friendships of the Iron Squad or the Quest Squad are necessarily like the strongest actually.

11:36 Actually, I would have a harder time answering this if we were talking about the marked ones because I love them so much. Like, I would fuck with Imogen at Thanksgiving dinner. That would be super fun. But like Ree and Riddick and who else is in there? I don't know, Sloane. I don't know, I mean. Sloane is the marked one.

11:54 I mean, definitely not Dane. Like I would kick Dane out, honestly. Yeah. I'd rather hang out with Cassian and Azriel, and I'd even tolerate more. But I also want to hang out with Nesta and Elaine. Yeah. Do they count? Are they here? Yeah. Yeah, Yeah. I think Inner Circle has expanded to them. Has expanded for the swings, Right?

12:14 I think so. Yeah. They're part of the royal family. Yeah. And they just sit around and drink wine. I'm like that's. All Yeah, they sit around, they drink wine and. They gab and they gab. Until until an ungodly hour when people are falling asleep on the cat on the couch. Yeah, Yeah. What about you?

12:30 I'm with you. Definitely Inner Circle. I said I was specific specifically at the townhouse. Like, none of this House of Wind shit like Thanksgiving at the townhouse. And specifically, I want to see Cassian get really, really drunk and then annoy the shit out of Amarin. Yeah, like that sounds like.

12:47 That pairing specifically, Yeah, I agree. I would definitely prefer that over over Violet's friend group. Although I would pay money to see, like, Riddick, Violet and Zayden at Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. Yeah, it'd be fun either way. Definitely their circle. Definitely their circle. OK All right, so we went to an event. Well, Abby, do you want to just explain how we came? Into tickets for this event to begin with. OK, so I was perusing Instagram as I do as I do. And I saw a post and I was like, holy shit, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life.

13:30 And it had been posted one hour before I saw it said posted one hour ago. And it was a conversation between Cynthia Areevo and Rebecca Yarrows, possibly the two most important women in my life outside of the women I know And in conversation in New York City on a Wednesday night. And it was like noon, which I know is not a good time to get Ronnie because as you guys know, Ronnie works very hard and she's very busy during the day. So I was like, OK, I love these women. I know Ronnie loves these women.

13:59 I have to just, I just have to see what the ticket situation is, right? So I like clicked on the link on Instagram. Shit you not, there were five tickets left for this event, 5 tickets and none of them were together, but two of them were in the same section. So I literally just text her. I said, Ronnie, I'm buying us tickets today. If you can't go, If we can't go, we'll figure it out. But I'm just buying these tickets, say yes or no, it's fine.

14:22 But I'm buying them. And my parents live in New York, so I was coming up for Thanksgiving anyway, so I bought the tickets. We weren't sure if we were going to be able to go. It was super chaotic, but we both managed to get there and we went and it was great. We were not. Sitting how long? How much time passed between when you texted me?

14:41 I'm just getting the tickets, and I actually saw that you were getting the tickets, but I was just like, OK. Yeah. And but The thing is, between the time I saw the post and the time I bought the tickets was about 3 minutes. Like that was like. Yeah, I do believe that. Yeah, I do believe that. It was full. It was full booth guys.

14:59 No one sat next to either of us. I know and we did not sit next to each other. We. Did not sit next to each other, but we pulled that seats empty right next to us. Yeah, I was like, what happened here? Yeah, that part was unfortunate. Not that we would have like been talking during this. But we both pulled out our Kindles to read Brimstone.

15:18 That's true. Yeah. But I thought, I thought it was a really, really great event. Usually Rebecca. Explains what the event is. Sorry, the event was. Cynthia Rivo has written a book. It's right here. It's called Simply More by. Cynthia Arevo. So this was basically like her book talk. So Rebecca Yaros was interviewing her, which is usually like the opposite right?

15:41 Usually Rebecca's being interviewed. So Rebecca was interviewing Cynthia. Apparently Cynthia is a huge Onyx Storm 4th Wing fan, which was amazing. Rebecca said that she was the only one who received an advance copy of Onyx Storm, which I think is fucking crazy. Like Rebecca sent Cynthia Arevo an advanced copy of Onyx Storm and nobody out of which.

16:01 Shocked the world. I was floored. Yeah. I know she gets to be alphabet and she gets to literally. Fuck I'm like this woman is on top of the world and she's receiving the only advanced copy of Onyx Storm. Yeah, yeah. If I didn't already want to be Cynthia Revo. Well, and I don't know if you guys, I don't know how closely you pay attention to the Wicked press tour, but I was texting Roddy the day before because I was like, she cancelled Cynthia Revo canceled her events in New York because she lost her voice.

16:30 And I was like, is she going to be able to do this? But she, yeah, yeah, she she was scratchy, but she did a great job. She was definitely scratchy, you could definitely tell her voice was struggling. I mean this is. Just not singing 2. Straight years of just like a vortex of. Fame. Yeah. Yeah, Well, two straight years of the Wizard and I and Define Gravity will absolutely annihilate your voice, no doubt about it. But it was so I thought it was great. Like Cynthia Revo was so funny and like down to earth and just like she connected with the crowd. So there was a moment towards the end where she literally saw someone in the crowd.

17:10 She saw two people in the crowd. They weren't together, but they were both like Tik Tokers that she was like, Oh my God, I love you guys. Like she was like calling them out and having them stand up and like take a bow. And it just felt like such a like, it was just so nice. It was just such a good energy, good vibes.

17:26 Yeah. What did you think about it? I thought she was great. I thought they were both great. I mean, I think Rebecca set the stage so well. I think Cynthia could have sat there and just yapped to us for an hour and a half unprompted. Like I think she seriously could have just sat down and just and just chit chatted with like honestly, zero prompting. Her crowd work at the end I thought was hilarious. There was a point at which Rebecca transitioned to audience specific questions, like audience driven questions. And so she would read out like who had submitted the question and the IT was in a classic like stage and audience format. So the lights were out in the audience and then the lights were on on the stage.

18:08 Such is a normal the stage audience format. And as Rebecca's calling out like, OK, I don't I'm making up a name because I don't remember what actually happened. She was like, Jennifer asked this question is Jennifer here? And then Jennifer be like. I'm here. Hi. And she would like wave her hand. And by the second time this happened, Cynthia was like, shine a light out there.

18:29 Can we get a light out there? And they they like turned the lights on in the crowd. And that's when she started like recognizing people. It was crazy to watch like she as soon as she turned the lights on, she's. Like, Oh my gosh. Hi, guys. Hi everyone. It was so good and then her talking about her mom and calling her mom.

18:48 My secret was so. Fast, the best. That was the best it. Was so good. Yeah, she it was such a good mix of like humor and heart and inspiration. And I thought, but what both of them talked about with like fame, basically like neither one of them was out here. Like they were both like, I was thinking about this today, right?

19:10 They were both like fairly successful, like moderately successful. Like probably what you think you're like, OK, this is my life, right? Like I'm I'm here, right. And then something happened and now you're just like fucking up here, you know? And you're just like everyone knows who you are and like your life is completely different. And just like, I think how they both connected and talked about dealing with that.

19:30 And just like basically you're like, this is what you've wanted. This is what you've wanted the whole time, right? Like you now it's here. You have to be ready for it and you can't complain about it. And like, you have to kind of embrace it that like this is your life now. I thought that was really insightful and inspiring. And I thought it was just a very, very meaningful, good conversation, you know?

19:49 Yeah, yeah. And I thought it was so cool too, that that Cynthia, who is a performer by trade, was interviewed by an author about her experience being an author, and they got to like share in that specific, that specific art form, even though that's not really Cynthia's core skill set. Like I thought that was fun and interesting that Rebecca Yaros got to relate how. She works to how Cynthia was working, even though it was like a very like a relatively small sliver of Cynthia's like existence during that time.

20:29 Like they were both talking about how they had to like claw time out of their lives to like make this book happen. Their respective books happen, but Rebecca's life was being a like a mother and having other books out and like book tours and like things to be doing. And Cynthia had like her career that is not book focused. I thought it was really interesting. I thought I'd put it into perspective very nicely that like, it's so funny.

20:56 Like, because they're such different women, right? Like, obviously Rebecca has five kids and Cynthia doesn't have any kids as far as I know. And like, women will always find a way to like, be busy but also make the time, right? I just think that's such an interesting, like, yeah, I think they just think they just fucking figure out how to make it work, you know? And I think it's so admirable.

21:17 Like, no matter where where you're from or what your background is, which is not to say men can't. I'm not, I'm not putting down men, but I just, I think women are like really, really good at that. Yeah. And I love it. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, I thought it was fun. Great event, good job to both of you guys.

21:32 Oh my God, I reposted Rebecca's story today and she looked at it so maybe she knows who we are guys. She viewed it. Maybe she knows what our faces look like. That would be. That would be wild. I really don't think so. I really, Yeah, I don't think so. But maybe one day, maybe one day we'll sit far up enough and she'll be like, Oh my God, you guys who talked for literally 32 hours about my books. Yeah, you fucking crazy bitches.

21:58 Yeah, it's us. We loved it. We loved doing it. We'll do it again. Yeah, yeah, it was fun. I'm so excited to see Wicked. Are you, do you have tickets? Are you going? I don't have tickets yet because I don't know if my sister wants to come with us. I was literally just talking about this with my dad because if my sister wants to come with us, we have to go on Thanksgiving Day, which is what we did last year. But if she doesn't we can go whenever. So it's a logistical nightmare as always, but I don't know where I'm.

22:23 Going yet either, but I think I'm going to go in Florida because there's nothing else for our listeners. I go to Florida for Thanksgiving. Well, not every Thanksgiving, but this year. And there's nothing else to do in Florida. So I'm thinking one of the nights is Wicked Night. I'm sorry for everybody who lives in Florida.

22:42 I have nothing to do. I have nothing to do in Florida because I don't know anyone there. Well, maybe now you'll have some friends. Maybe our Florida listeners will. Reach out guys, hit me up. I mean, Florida's a massive state, so like this is probably not going to work out. I do have one friend there now, one person that I know, their parents got a house in the the same town that my parents live in, so that's convenient, I suppose.

23:05 Anyways, I have to go. I have to get tickets to Wicked still. And then I have to like, cry. Oh my God, did you see that New York Magazine put out an article bashing for good? Yeah, I did. I'm pretty done with New York Magazine. They've that's just been like 2 weeks to block that I'm I'm I currently pay for them and I might stop.

23:25 Honest to God, like they've just been trashed for so long like. I don't know, like maybe I'll eat my words on this one day, but everything that they've been putting out that has been coming up on my feed lately, I've been like, you guys are off your fucking rocker or is this rage bait? Yeah, no, it's got to be rage bait.

23:43 Bought. They got bought by Vox a couple years ago. I used to love Vulture and the Cut. I love them. I thought they were so good. And then they got like the cut. Yeah, yeah, they got bought by Vox and it's been fucking terrible ever since. Honestly, I don't, I'm going to cancel it. I don't read it anymore.

23:57 The only thing it's good for, actually the only thing New York Magazine is good for in my opinion, is the curb section, which is like kind of the like hyper local New York. It's like New York City news, but it's not like, how do I explain this? Do you read curbed? It's like how the city. Articles.

24:12 From Curbed, Yeah. It's like, it's like about like Upper East Side moms and it's about like, it's not like political, but it's like more like on the ground reporting, which I haven't really found anywhere else. But I don't live in New York, so I don't really need to know. I was going to say, why is this? Because I have New York Magazine and I'm from New York, so I read it because it's like.

24:32 Interesting, I see. Some people watch The Real Housewives. For people who are wondering why we're so passionate, they New York magazine Vulture specifically published. Like what was it It was like? The hit piece. Why? Like this year was stupid basically was, yeah, the title of the article. And one of the things on it was that like an incomprehensible book was a best seller and it was Onyx Storm, which like, obviously we don't think that Onyx Storm was the stupidest thing of 2025.

25:02 Nor do we think it was incomprehensible either. Certainly not. Certainly not. And then another one was, though Taylor Swift forgot how to write. Come on, can I just say? The author's whole fucking argument for the book being stupid was that she couldn't finish it because she couldn't keep track of everything that was going on.

25:20 So it was the book that was stupid, not the other piece of this equation. And this author was a woman, too. And I was like, I know, I know. Really bothers me. Really bothers me. Really, it got my goat. Got my goat too. I got my goat. I wasn't happy at all. And then, and then you basically said just.

25:37 Headline article for good was bad fuck off with that here's something and I know that it's I don't care. I don't care. There is nothing you could say that wouldn't make me see this movie like we're I'm going to be there like. I will be there. We might get into this later because I saw you put on a question of what what books we're thankful for.

25:57 I'll just talk about this now. Yeah. I've never seen the musical. I've never seen the musical. Wicked The book Wicked is the book I've read the most. I think. I fucking love Wicked the book. And it also has a different ending, so I don't actually know what's going to happen. And for good. So don't spoil for good for me, please.

26:15 I just I just love that book so much. Like it takes everything, you know, and it flips it on its head exactly like Sarah J Maas. By the way, I think alpha Bo walk so that re sand could run, but that's just me personally. And I just I just like I love I loved the first movie. I love kind of the female love that has come out of it and it just like feels like a good moment and I love it.

26:39 And there's like nothing that you could say to me that would make me not watch this movie basically is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, we're go like I'm I mean, you know this not everybody listening to the pondoses. I am a Wicked the musical super fan. I have seen that musical no less than five times and I've read the book. I love the book too.

26:58 It is very different. It's a incredibly different. I actually was like really concerned for a while. It is so good. I was really concerned for a while when this movie was gaining popularity and a bunch of parents were buying the the novel Wicked for their young children. I was like, no, no, like, I mean, maybe, but like, you should be aware of what's in it.

27:21 I read it and I would say middle school. This is a plug by the way. You guys should definitely read Wicked Wicked Wicked. You would love it. Read it. I definitely missed a lot of it. Like, I definitely should not. Yeah, it's like, up on a lot of things. But like, it's like up here. You could easily just skate right by it.

27:37 Yeah. But it is a dark, dark book. Like dark, bad things happen. Dark. Definitely not about about Glinda the Good Witch. Certainly not. No, no, definitely not. I'm excited that we're gonna talk about Wicked the book, though I guess maybe we just did. Maybe we just did. We can talk about it more.

27:58 But OK, fine, OK, great. Well, that was a great little event. I optimistically put Guitar 6 announcement speculation on the outline for this. Episode, I saw that you did that. I was like manifesting that there would be news but there has been no news. So I have nothing new to say here. Nothing new I hope for.

28:16 I did hear we can cut this. If I'm wrong I'll like do research and try and validate whether I'm correct. I heard a rumor that she by I heard a rumor. I mean I read an article somewhere that she's planning a new series in addition to she's basically planning a fourth series that's gonna that is rumored to be.

28:36 This is the part that's definitely rumored to be like a mega merger series. So what I know about this and again, I know nothing I I have not even read an article. This has been like social media, like stalking, not even stalking, just like through the great friend social media. My understanding is Sarah J Mass and if you know let us know because I this is not this is typically no Sarah J Mass made a Pinterest board called something Gods Gods and something I could Google this real fast. Hold on, let me do.

29:04 It I think I had something more concrete than that. Let me see if I can find it while you're doing that. Yeah, she did say, okay, so she has a new series. So Bloomsbury has contracted Sarah Jamas for six upcoming books, which which apparently, according to a YouTube video, is a mix of ACOTAR, Crescent City and a brand new series.

29:23 Yeah, and that brand new series there was a Pinterest board. I'm getting this off Tumblr by the way, so I don't know Excel that of. This review I'm not on Tumblr. But to be clear, this Pinterest board was called Twilight of the Gods, so people think that the next series would be Twilight of the Gods, which would fit with what we have been talking about this season. And I'm not going to say any more than. Yeah, the content of the new series, we do not know much about.

29:45 The fact that the new series is contracted and exists seems to be pulled from a Bloomsbury Publishing investor meeting. So there's a little bit. More. I'm here. I'm here for six more books. I will read any book she writes honestly. Yeah, I mean, I'm here. I like I'm here for it even if even if it wasn't like a mega merger anything.

30:07 If it went to another world, it'd be good. Anyways, a guitar 6. We have no news. No news. But we'll write, we'll read. Anything she writes, we'll read. Especially if it's a mega merger. Anything she writes, If there's a mega merger, I just want to get back to Irelium. However, we can do that. Through whatever series.

30:26 I did read an article where she teased that it was in New York Magazine. We have to keep the New York Magazine subscription for this. Yeah, it was. I read an article where she's where she teased maybe going back to it was not clear if she was talking about writing another Throne of Glass book or if it was something more mass verse related. So we'll see, OK.

30:48 All right, I mean, what are three books that you're grateful for? We're giving Thanksgiving special. Everyone we're talking, we're grateful about. We're giving thanks. I already did one with Wicked which I really. Have to be 3. If you don't have three, I don't really care. Like I'm not going to grade you.

31:03 I'm not going to give you a report card on whether you have three books or not. Well, obviously Onyx store. Like, yeah, because like, we got all this from Onyx Store, which is fucking awesome. And we love you guys and thank you for listening to us. If you're listening to this episode where we're just gabbing, like definitely extra.

31:20 Thank you. Yeah, definitely extra. Thank you. It means that you tolerate us. So thanks. Yeah, so definitely, definitely Onyx Storm, which just kind of like also, I mean, people say this all the time, but I really did like re spark my love for reading. Like, I have read probably more books this year than I have in the past five years, honestly.

31:41 Yeah I agree, I like barely read in college which is kind of crazy to. Think Oh my God I barely read in college. To do. We had a lot going on but I feel I just feel more alive. I don't know how to explain this. Like reading has just made me feel better rather than just like sitting in front of ATV every night and just like watching something stupid. Like I'm just like I feel more in touch with my emotions. I feel smarter, I feel like I can analyze shit more. Like everything is better in my opinion. Yeah, I was telling someone at work that like I was like, we're talking about something.

32:12 I read Bravo and they were like, what's your like? OK, like I watch my trash TV is Bravo like what's your trash TV? And I'm like, I read like trash fantasy. Not that not that the fantasy that we talk about here is trash fantasy, but like some of it. I'm trash though. If I'm looking for like trash content now I seek like super readable just like trash fantasy books.

32:37 I do. OK so the Baskas kiss of the Baskas is trash fantasy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, what is the authors name? Lindsay. Straub. It's Lindsey Straub. That's her name. Oh, it is Lindsey Straub. Yes. Do I know where? Do you? She lives in Portland. OK. Well, Lindsey. Straub, I'm sorry, I'm sure you're an excellent you are an excellent writer, but this is this is my trash bans. You are bravo to me.

33:03 Sorry anymore, I am so mad at her after Between 2 Kings. All right, you guys all heard me recommend reading Kiss of the Basilisk I think last week. I still recommend you to read that. Do not fucking read Between 2 Kings. Just stop after Kiss of the Basilisk, OK? That's my rant and my rant might be my RAM, might be different. We'll see where I'm at in a.

33:21 Couple weeks Ronnie has picked up Kiss of the Basilisk and she has thoughts and that's OK. We welcome so Onyx Storm, Wicked and and probably Mist and Fury. It's probably another book I'm very thankful for. I literally when I finished Mist and Fury made it like I posted on Instagram that I was like, I'm just happy to live in a world where this book exists because I I actually love it so much.

33:45 Even though I would say Silver Flames is probably still my favorite in that guitar series. Like yeah, Mist and Furious was just so touching. Yeah. It's just like I felt different after. I run. Yeah, it changed. Yeah, I just felt changed. I've been changed for good. So yeah, for good. Yeah, right.

34:04 I also had Mist and Fury on this list, so I'll just get that out of the way. I mean, yeah, It's like it's one of those books where you just read it and you're like, wow. Like, I don't even know what it is to be loved like this, but I feel like I do. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel changed in that way. And so I agree with you. I do feel happy to live in a world where Mist and Fury, Mist and Fury exists.

34:30 And so that I would define as grateful. So I'm grateful for a court of mist and fury. I just have to call out Harry Potter because Harry Potter is the reason that I that I read honestly, like I don't think I would have been. I definitely read books other than Harry Potter as a kid, but like I was not voracious until I started reading Harry Potter and I honestly also didn't.

34:55 I wasn't a rereader before Harry Potter and Harry Potter made me a rereader. I've been, I've been a long rereader. Like I've been rereading for a long time and Harry Potter like sparked that for me the whole series. I'm not sorry. Three books, like 10 books. I'm going to like all the Harry Potter books. All of them.

35:14 If I had to pick one, I guess I I would pick Goblet of Fire. It's the best one. It's the best Goblet of Fire is when it it was when it got it was the make or break book. And it made it, you know, I didn't think that The Prisoner of Azkaban was quite good. I would say that that book was also really good. But like, yeah, Goblet of Fire was like, OK, the series is like this taken off.

35:35 Yeah. This is like, it was like a well-rounded story. There was like a a plot outside of just Harry Potter trying to defeat Voldemort. And there was a whole set of trials. We love trials in his pocket. He's love trials. We love elaborate. You're on Dragon Maze. We love, we love a trial. We love a labyrinth.

35:55 Great subplot, great subplot. So definitely Harry Potter. And then the third one. This is admittedly top of mind because it's been showing up in the media, but one of my favorite books that I was forced to read. I say forced. I don't think that I was. I remember whether I was made to read this as part of school, but I was definitely introduced to the Bronte sisters through school and then found this book through school was Wuttering Heights. Wuttering Heights is a sick book for anybody who's not taking the time to read it because it's a little bit, I mean, it was written longer ago and maybe it's a little bit dense and maybe it's a little bit dark.

36:35 It's mate. It was one of those books. Kind of like how you were saying that you don't like consuming art that makes you uncomfortable. This is admittedly art that makes you uncomfortable. I don't like consuming art that is intended to make me feel bad. That's what I meant to say. Uncomfortable is OK, yeah.

36:54 Yeah, I mean, this is definitely a book about two people who do kind of terrible things, but like, you empathize with both of them. And it made. It's one of those books where you realize that like, even really sad, like tragic, kind of unpleasant tales can be like beautiful works of art and have, like, silver lining even when, like, the overarching theme is just like, really fucking dark.

37:18 So you're really. Fucking me up here because I have vowed to not read it because I want to see this movie so bad and I don't want, I don't want my opinion of the book. Read it after you see the movie. Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to read it after I see the movie. Yeah, read it after you see the movie, like because what is it?

37:33 Come out in February. Yeah. Yeah, you got couple months. I can wait two months. It's three months. And I also think it's. I don't know if it's actually a dense reader, if I was just young when I read it, but it felt dense when I was younger. Love what? I'll read it. I love. Wait. I want to check something before I sound stupid.

37:51 Yeah. OK. I really liked Jane Eyre, which is the other Bronte sister. I really. I did have to read it for school. Yeah. Charlotte But I I did really. That I was made to read for school and I was like, oh, Charlotte had his sister. She wrote this book. Oh. Different kind of book. Yeah. But what Heights is also was it. This is someone the listeners are going to know this. I don't think Abby's going to know this, but I think Wuthering Heights might have been Bella from Twilights favorite book. I think that's the case.

38:22 It's going to be really awkward if I'm wrong. Let me just do a quick verification. It is. First of all, Gemini's Gemini on Google Search needs help. Yeah. And its result is Bella Swan's favorite book is Wuthering Heights, which she calls fun. It's about the inevitability of two lovers being kept apart by not.

38:47 I'm not going to finish that sentence, but it isn't. I assure you, it's not fun. It's definitely not fun. But maybe Bella thought it was fun. Maybe Bella thought it was fun and that's why. She almost died. I didn't read these books. I didn't see this movie. I don't know what. You mean she doesn't actually, but I trust you.

39:03 At the end of her husband, she almost dies because she's pregnant with a half vampire. Classic that'll get you. Classic. It'll really get you. So yeah, those are three books that I'm grateful for. I'm also grateful for Onyx Storm, obviously, and 4th Wing and like all of the things that made this podcast, this podcast because of course, but I figured we were going to say those so.

39:26 Can I just plug real quick? Yes, I had a different I, I loved Harry Potter. I'm with you. But there was a fantasy series I read before Harry Potter that I think actually sparked my love for fantasy. And it was the Alana series by Tamora Pierce, which I may have plugged on this podcast before. I don't remember.

39:45 I was like it's like for like 7-8 year old kids. Like it's it's younger than Harry Potter probably, but it is about a girl who I think has a twin brother and she disguises herself as her brother because she wants to become a knight. She's very Aylin coded. She's like an early younger version of Aylin. It's for kids, but I.

40:05 These were like, these were the books that I read over and over and over again. I absolutely love these books when I was growing up. And they're so like the fantasy is great. There's a little bit of romance, but obviously it's for kids. It's nothing crazy. And she just, I mean, I haven't read them in years, so I don't remember. But like I remember, well, I don't know, but I remember her just being such like a strong character. And obviously, she was a woman who was, like, training to become a knight, which was like, unheard of in those days. Yeah, it was great.

40:32 If you're looking for fantasy books for young women, highly, highly, highly recommend these books. So good. Shout out to Tamora Pierce, wherever you are. Shout out Tamora Pierce Where is Tamora Pierce? Probably in Maine or something, I don't know. Isn't that where authors go? South Connellsville, PA. Not Maine, Oh.

40:49 Wait, that's just where she was born. Where is she? Where is she now? Miramar. OK, I don't know. I don't know where she is. That's OK, I can't find. It's OK. She's not on fine my friends. Seems she lived in New York City for a time, maybe moved to Syracuse. Shout out to Pierce. Love it. OK, great.

41:08 And maybe, just maybe, maybe parents listening to the podcast, because we know there are parents who listen to this podcast, maybe read to maybe read the Alana series to your, to your children. Yeah, I mean, I think I was truly 7, maybe 9 when I started reading them. Yeah, they're good for kids. They're kids.

41:25 Books. Yeah, I'm not going to lie, this is this says more about me than anything else. But when I first saw like this cover, I thought of Link immediately from Zelda. But better. You know what I just remembered? She has purple eyes. Tire into the sapphire eyes episode good. What are your cozy Thanksgiving read recommendations for people who are home like this is coming out the weekend the Monday after Thanksgiving but cozy Thanksgiving recommendations.

41:54 I mean, I'm reading Brimstone. Yeah, read Brimstone, of course. Obviously I'm about to start. What I'm going to read after Brimstone I've heard really good things about, but I haven't read it obviously is the will of the many, which I have gotten a lot of like recommendations for. I think it's a little more sci-fi. I don't like to go in knowing much about books, so I don't know much, but I've seen on Bookstagram, I've seen, I've my friend Maeve, who we've talked about has recommended it to me Faithfully Fantasy.

42:22 You remember Faithfully Fantasy when we were talking about Fourth Wing, They just posted about it and they're like, you have to read this book. This is the best book I've ever or read, so I'm really excited about that and The Will of the Few, which is the sequel, like just came out so I can just go.

42:33 I love just going from 1:00 to 2:00, you know? Yeah, but I'm is it? I don't think so too. OK, I think, I think, I don't know. I think it'll probably be a trilogy, but yeah. So I don't know if that counts as a recommendation because. You've not read it yet? I've not read it yet. Honestly though, if you're home with your family, I think I've mentioned this before. I love David Sedaris.

42:56 This is not romanticy at all. I think I've mentioned this book, but his favorite book, my favorite book of his is When You Are Engulfed in Flames, Which. Is. Yeah, right, cuz of the. Specifically when when a certain character bursts into flames, you continue to mention this book. But it's short stories, but they're very family focused and they're hilarious.

43:17 And it's about like, his dysfunctional family in like, North Carolina and like, probably like the 60s or the 70s. It's really fucking funny. Maybe I'll give that a reread while I'm home. But it's great book. Yeah. Yeah. What about you? None of my recommendations were fantasy, actually. I mean, like I recommend all of the fantasy books that we have been talking about on this podcast.

43:41 Like go read everything that Sarah J Maas and Rebecca Yaris, Well, Sarah J Maas has ever written in Rebecca Yaris. All of the I've read, obviously, 4th Wing through Onyx Storm. I've actually not read Rebecca Yaris's contemporaries, so maybe I should give that a try. I've kind of been thinking about it. Yeah.

43:57 I don't typically read just like contemporary romance. Yeah, I don't either. I might be willing to try I'd. Be willing to try. I just feel like they hurt. Like honestly feel like they hurt. Obviously I recommend Wuthering Heights. You're not going to read it, but I'm telling everybody else to do it. One that I actually think is really cozy. Genuinely cozy is Have you ever heard of Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garland?

44:26 Yeah. Yeah, I haven't read it was made into a show, but if you haven't seen it yet, or even if you have seen it, the book is really good. It's about a, like, brilliant chemist, woman chemist in the 1950s who is a single mother. She's like discriminated against in the workplace because she's woman single mother in the 1950s and she Long story short, like leaves chemistry to this isn't a spoiler. This is like promotional material leaves chemistry to become a really successful cooking show host. Oh my God, it's lovely.

45:02 It's very lovely. She has a dog named 630 like the time of day and it's very cute and it's cozy and it's heartwarming, heartwarming, but definitely like has depth. Like you, you cry. So be forewarned. You're going to cry. That's good. Is that Brie Larson? In the show, is that the show with Brie Larson? I don't actually.

45:23 I haven't seen the show. It doesn't matter. Oh yeah, there she is. Brie Larson. Oscar award-winning actress Brie Larson. Brie Larson, there she is. Yeah. Maybe I should watch that show. It's like a fairly recent book and show, I believe. Yeah. The book came out in 2022 and the show came out in 2023.

45:45 Wow, that's very impressive. Yeah, yeah. Like. Why are we waiting 5 fucking years for 1/4 wing show? Seriously, I don't know how long it's going to take. Well, I don't know. 4th Wing was released a while ago. Two years ago. Yeah. Yeah, two years ago. 2 1/2 years ago. What the heck? And then my other one is like more of a thriller, which I feel like if I feel like if you read fantasy and romancey, if you're gonna like any other genre, that's not that.

46:13 I feel like it's going to be like thrillers and like murder mysteries. I don't know why I feel that way, but I feel like that's the like adjacent real life genre. Maybe I feel that way because I like it. I don't know the. Closest to fantasy is murder mystery. Well, if like what is Crescent City if not that? Certainly the first Crescent City is a murder mystery. I agree with you.

46:36 Yeah. And for that, I recommend The Paris Apartment by Lucy Foley. Have you heard that one? It's by the same. Have you heard of the Guest List? The Guest List is like her cornerstone book. But the Paris Apartment is basically, it's like this thriller about a woman who goes to Paris to find her brother, and then she learns that he's missing and she goes to the apartment building and discovers all sorts of secrets about his neighbors.

47:00 And I can't stress enough that I like this is one of those books. It's like a paperback, maybe 200 something pages. Read it in a day and a half. Just like, glue yourself to your couch. Read it in a day and a half. Done. Yeah, it's lovely. Those are my cozy recommendations. I'm sorry, they're not fantasy. I failed you.

47:21 Yeah, well, mine weren't really cozy either. You went cozy. I went find solace in other people's misery with their families, if that's if that's the kind of Thanksgiving you have. Yeah, well, yeah, really just read Brimstone because tis the season. Tis the Brimstone season. Yeah. Get your Kelly Hart books.

47:40 Reread Quicksilver if you haven't yet, because God knows everything happened in the last 20% of that book. OK, and actually this is very important and I did not do this before I started Brimstone. You have to read the Kingfisher chapters on her website too. Like those are actually very important, which I'm kind of frankly a little annoyed about, but I like had to, I at one point stopped reading Brimstone.

48:03 I was like, OK, I have to go. So read these Kingfisher POV chapters because this is like, yeah, I have been noticing this trend. This is not usually a podcast where we share our views. So I'm sorry that I'm, we're sharing so many views. But I have been noticing this trend both in music and in writing where we're like, artists are spreading content in all of these places that are hard to find. Yeah.

48:32 Releasing special versions of records with like an extra track or like a special edition of a book with a fucking bonus chapter that's exclusive to Target. And I'm like, where can I find this? Yeah, if it's going to be critical to the plot, why? Is it so? Hard to find if it's gonna like, if it's going to be hard to find, just make it like just extra for fun, you know? And I'm not going to criticize Kylie Hart specifically. Like this is totally like, yeah, it's fine and it's fun and it's kind of like a treasure hunt.

49:02 But like, sometimes I'm just like, just give it, just make it in the book. Just put it in the book. And to be fair to Callie Hart, these chapters are on her website and they're free. Like, they're not that hard to find. But it is kind of annoying for me personally because there were moments where I was like, oh, I want to like, annotate this. I want to highlight this.

49:20 And I'm like, I just can't. I just can't. This is a website. This is not my Kindle. I would argue Kelly Hart is doing the most innocent version and that what you had to do was basically go to her website and then make sure that like your digital version was updated so that you had like the refreshed phone known as Chapter at the end of your Yeah, digital. Version I have the hard copy of Quicksilver, so I have. To you have the hard copy of Quicksilver like you kind of needed to get the new version of like the latest edition of Quicksilver.

49:46 And this is kind of the annoying thing too, because we did, Empyrion did this too with the maps. Like it's like it's becoming less and less viable to have the physical copy of the books because things change, things update, you know? And like, that seems really strange to me as a physical book lover.

50:03 And it's like, I don't love it. Yeah, it's getting weird out there. I mean, I guess it's like where the world is going. So it makes sense that they're like capitalizing on this, like way to get new content out to people. Yeah, because like the majority of people have it. But yeah, it's interesting.

50:21 It's like your your physical copies can become dated of a book. Like a textbook, like that's what happens with textbooks. Yeah, it's. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, kind of crazy. But then in 10 years there'll be special editions, you know, like having this version of Quicksilver is going to be so valuable. That is not Kingfisher.

50:41 I know it's our fault. We said it. She changed the cover. It's our fault. Not Kingfisher. OK, do you wanna do reading habit confessions? I only have one. I don't have any I read. You don't have any weird reading habits? What would be a weird reading habit? Well, I can tell you mine and then you can. Yeah, I actually.

51:00 Do have one? I do have one. Go ahead. OK, my the prompt, to be clear, this is our first special episode, guys. OK, so we're not very good at coming up with these. All right, so this prompt was reading Havoc Confessions. Like, do you do anything strange? Like do you have ADNF that you want to confess?

51:17 Do you judge books by their covers? Do you buy things and they never read them? My reading Havoc confession is that for all of my physical books, when I bookmark, like when I stop in a certain point, I fold the corner every time. That's your confession? Yeah, that's nothing. That's not weird. Everybody thinks I'm crazy for folding the corner of the book because. You dog ear a book.

51:38 Yeah. You, I don't know that, sound like judgy friends. You do whatever you want. OK, fine. What's yours? Mine's a little, it's what I'm reading rather than now. And you actually know this? I've told you this. So you skipping to. Romance scenes. No, I would never. I would never. I read every page of a book. I want to be so clear.

51:59 OK, good. Sometimes I can't sleep and when that happens less less. Lately I've been better at sleeping lately. I have tried many times to read Lord of the Rings. The actual walk, I can't get through it. I can't get through it. However, I am very fascinated by the mythology and the world building of Lord of the Rings. So what I used to do when I couldn't fall asleep is just go on Wikipedia and find different things about like like different articles about like the first stage and the third age and like all the elf cities and like I could talk to you about Gandalf for hours.

52:34 But I've never actually read Lord of the Rings. So that is my weird reading habit is that when I need to fall asleep, I read Wikipedia entries on the Lord Lord of the Rings. Like I know the God system of Lord of the Rings like the back of my fucking hand. But like have an interesting that you like can can be interested in it when you haven't read it.

52:52 I guess you've watched the movies. You've watched the movies. I've watched the movies, the idea that one man and now obviously we have Sarah J Mast, like kind of following at his footsteps, right? But the idea that one man and people are going to yell at me for comparing Sarah J Mast to Tolkien, but I don't fucking care. Came up with all of this.

53:10 This entire fucking universe just came from his head and he spent 40 years of his life on it, right? And like, most of his work is unpublished. Like most of his work isn't like appendices and like additional books that like his son published and like so much work went into this for these three books.

53:27 It's, well, 5:00 if you count The Hobbit and the similar real Simmerellian. I don't know how you say that word. I think it's wild and there's so much lore. It's so fascinating. I think it's so cool. So those are different levels of confessions, Ronnie. I think that one's that bad though. You're just like a nerd.

53:44 Yeah, I'm just like and I like physically harm my book. I write in my books like my copies of all the imperial novels are. There's scribbles everywhere. So I think maybe I grew up with like a. Bias and I don't know how this happened, but like I grew up with a bias that you're supposed to like be careful with like you're supposed books or something that like you want to preserve like you want to keep them good and nice and I beat them to death like my Harry Potter books, I cannot stress enough are in pieces they're. Loved literally like I broke the spine on with that. The spine didn't make it like it's got clear tape. That means you love it.

54:24 I don't know. It's loved. It is certainly loved. OK, All right. Well, we are now moving on to. Well, actually, the next question is what are you reading? But we're both reading Brimstone. So do I need to ask you what you're reading Brimstone? Reading Brimstone? It is for, for what it's worth, it is the Friday after Brimstone came out and Brimstone came out on a Tuesday. And I am, for one, furious at how little time I've had to read Brimstone this week.

54:50 And so I will be cementing myself to the couch after this concludes to read Brimstone. I support you. OK. Do we want to talk about it at all? No. We'll talk about it when we're done. Yeah, we can maybe, I don't know, let us know how you guys feel about this format that we're about to do slash that we're doing and maybe we'll do a reaction episode to that.

55:12 But TBD OK, we are going to move on to our shepherd king duology reaction section of this episode. If you have not read it and or do not want to be spoiled, then this is where we leave you. We are on social media, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, YouTube dragon, the details pod. We have a discord server Dragons in the details.

55:35 It's LinkedIn, all of our BIOS everywhere. We have a website dragonsinthedetails.com and please like rate, subscribe, give us feedback. It really helps us as a small podcasts looking to grow and we love it when you guys comment on our episodes, our theories you have. We're getting more comments on like our intros and like shout outs agreeing or disagreeing or asking us questions about random stuff that we talk about, which I love and it's so fun. So please keep doing that really warms our days and we love our little community that we've built here, so. Oh my God, I did love when Cynthia Revo talked about how much she liked a crispy Diet Coke. I was like, this is a full circle I know. Guys, Cynthia loves crispy Diet

56:17 Coke. Crispy Diet Coke? Yeah. Little moment of joy. Yeah, little moment of joy. Small indie beverage brand Coca-Cola. And in the spirit of Thanksgiving, we're thankful for all of you. Thank you. We're. Thankful for all of. You and hanging out with us and we love you so much. All right, we're moving on.

56:34 Shepherd King. One dark window, 2 twisted crowns. If you do not want to be spoiled, please leave. Love you. Bye. OK. Love you. Bye. And we're doing Shepherd King duology reaction. OK. All right, let's start with how many stars. How many stars did you give the series? Would give this series 4 stars.

56:52 And the reason for that is, is because I would give the first book three stars and I would give the second book five stars without hesitation, and therefore that averages out to four stars. Do you want me to expand on that? It sounds like you really didn't like you. You really picked it up in the second book and the first book, like really frustrated you.

57:13 I would say that's exactly right. I also didn't do any prep for this episode, so sorry. This is just going to be stream of consciousness. We ended our last episode talking about this, so maybe we've already prefaced this a bit, but I had a lot of frustrations with. But I couldn't say anything because you weren't done. I know.

57:30 I know, I know, I know. I'm saying for our listeners, I'm saying for our listeners. Sorry if you've heard a bit of this. We're picking up the threat. I have now finished these books. I had a lot of frustrations with Elsbeth in the 1st. Book who? Doesn't fucking matter. Exactly. Exactly. But she's your first person POV character and she's the only one in the first book, right?

57:53 And she is. Stupid. She's stupid. I'm sorry, like she is not picking up on things that she should be picking up on. She's like putting herself in danger. Like she's just not all there seemingly, which I understand there's a monster in her head, right? What I did like about the first book was the monster and the magic and the setting and the side characters.

58:15 And what we got in the second book was the monster and the magic and the setting and the side characters. And it was so much fucking better in my opinion. Like this was like a master class in how to write a sequel that's actually like moves the story forward. Expect like it it focuses on the side characters, right?

58:34 The side characters from the main characters. I fucking loved Elm and Ione Ione Ione Ione, Yeah. I mean Elman Ione became yeah main characters. It was funny because you texted me after I'd finished Book 1. You were like, I really liked Elman Ione. I was like, what? They're bearsing in this book.

58:52 What are you talking about? I don't. I don't get why she would say that. And then I read folks, too. I was like, fuck yeah, I love. Well, I liked Elm, I think. I mean, I, I also liked the side characters a lot in one dark window. And I think, I think what I said to you is I like Elm a lot in one dark window because he's the only person who has his head fucking screwed on straight and is appropriately suspicious of what's going on. So I already knew that I liked Elm in one dark window. And then, yes, of course, like he had, I would argue, the best plot line and, like, character development in the second book, like the whole air Ione like, romance vying for Will, not vying for, like, he didn't

59:36 really want it, but like, getting kind of thrust upon the throne and then his brother coming back. Like he had such good development. But I still liked him from the start because I was like, this guy knows what's going on. Great. Yeah. This guy is the right he he's the only one who's looking at this like, at all logically.

59:54 And by the way, the nightmare also thought so. Yeah, I agree. And the nightmare, I said this. I think I said this. I know. I always have the students. The nightmare was my favorite part of book 1. So the fact that the nightmare was a central character in book 2 was delightful in my opinion. And that Elsmith was like kind of in it, but like she obviously took kind of a backseat. I also thought Raven was better without Elsmith was just like more interesting.

1:00:18 I I thought, yeah, I I really, really loved the second book in this in the series. I just thought it was I thought it was it was. I thought it was interesting. This was these were her first two books, right? I think, I believe for the. US author. I don't actually know. I think these were her first two books and I feel like she figured it out in book 2, which was which was delightful to see. I also liked Leone Ione sorry, Ione like I liked. I thought she was the maiden.

1:00:45 I liked the fact that the maiden was fucking with her and you weren't sure what was her and what was the maiden. I thought that added a really good layer of kind of complexity to all of it. I loved their their love story was so good in my opinion. Like it was just. Yeah, yeah, I thought her development was amazing.

1:01:03 She in my head and I don't I've I think I've told you this and I think I've said this on the podcast. Like I don't normally, I don't normally picture actors in my head ever for books. But in my head, Ione without the maiden is Saoirse Ronan. Like, I don't know why I just picture her. I don't know, like she's I picture her as like wild kind of.

1:01:25 And I just loved her, like, I loved her character independent of the maiden and and with the maiden. And I loved that the maiden had this, like, secret element to it that was more powerful than we had ever appreciated. Yeah. I really like that. It made it obvious. Like it it added this extra layer to like, why people seemed so inhuman with it.

1:01:46 It's like, oh, you're inhuman because you are inhuman. Like, you actually immortal, are immortal. Yeah. Yeah, that's so sick. And I loved the idea that it had just been dismissed basically, right. Like it was like, oh, it just Makes You Beautiful, Right. So like, we're not going to pay attention to this one. It's actually like the probably the most power, maybe the most powerful card on the deck.

1:02:07 Certainly much more powerful than other ones. Yeah. And the anger I felt when. What was the brother's name? Helm. No. Hoth. Hoth. When Hoth fucking reappeared I was like. No, no, but you knew that was going to happen as soon as you found out the maiden could heal. As soon as you found out the maiden could heal.

1:02:25 As soon as I found out the maiden heal, I was like fuck off is going to be fine. And that's the worst. But I thought what had happened was that Elm in his distraction had left the maiden card instead of the I think it was a nightmare card in Helms in Hoth's room. And then that's what I thought had happened, but not Hoth, just like figured out, figured it out.

1:02:46 See so. Yeah, Hoth saw Ione for everybody. Just to refresh everyone's memories. Listen. Or who's read the books, heard the books. Whatever way you did. Ione had this maiden card. It helped her heal multiple times but Hoth tried to kill Ione and then Ione was fine and then Hoth and his like basically paralyzed state saw Ione and then use the nightmare card which is the smartest thing that Hoth has ever done in his entire life. OK didn't tell to tell the nurse whatever he was. Hey the maiden card heals.

1:03:19 Use the maiden card to heal me, which sucked. Yeah. Yeah, that really sucked. But Hoff was a great like an umbrage level villain in my opinion. He was like so frustrating, you know, like you just want to like, fucking scream at him. He was a good villain and he was a good like counter to Elm who was he was just a well placed good character, especially when you think about how the Shepherd King perceived him relative to the rest of his family. Yeah, I mean, he wasn't Hoth I'm talking about now. I he wasn't a mastermind, right?

1:03:55 He wasn't. I don't think he was like, even particularly strong. Like he was just a man, a bad man who had been given power and was now abusing that power. And like, I just thought, I think that really worked. Like, you know, like there was nothing particularly special about Hoth. He was just born into this family. And I always like that as a villain trope, like, because it makes it more relatable, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:04:19 I mean, I think my challenge with how you felt about One Dark Window is I think it's totally fair. However you read a book is how you read a book. Like however you feel is whatever. Like, if you didn't like it, if you were frustrated by it, that's obviously everybody's prerogative. But I think what I thought Rachel Gillig did so, so well, obviously this was a very intentionally haunting book, right? Like everything about it was haunting. You had the, like, rhythmic poems, you had the mist, you had the forests.

1:04:48 And there were all of these subliminal things that were not overt in our faces throughout one dark window. That points to the fact that what was going on was not the core plot. And the entire series was called the Shepherd. The Shepherd. Yeah, Right. So when you find out that the nightmare in her head is the shepherd king, like you realize that one dark window is build up.

1:05:18 And so you have this like overarching plot of the shepherd king and his demons and everything that happened in his past and the spirit of the wood and like this whole his whole life and getting his life back and being free. And that is the real story. And then all of this that we've been witnessing and the parts that we care about and are excited about are actually. Subplots and that's the epilogue is. Like fucking sick.

1:05:47 And so when you when you hit that part of one dark window, yes, it's cool because it's like a big reveal, but then you just pull back and you're like, holy shit, the story that I thought was a story is not the story. And so I appreciated one dark window way more because I was like this was build up is all.

1:06:03 I agree with you, I definitely appreciate it more having read 2 Twisted Crowds I think. Rereading it, I would also really appreciate it more. I think that's probably I haven't reread it. I think I felt that way about I agree with you. I think that she made a really bold choice with her ending. Or maybe she did it like maybe maybe it's as you're saying, like maybe it wasn't the ending, right? Like maybe that was always the plan and she actually made the bold choice with the build up to the ending rather than the ending, right.

1:06:32 But like she basically killed her main character at the end of book one. Like not permanently, but she was like, I'm shoving you aside. You don't matter anymore. Now we're getting to the good stuff. And I. I thought that was just like, it was like killing Ned Stark, right? Like that, That was the equivalent of it, basically.

1:06:47 And I thought that was just great in Game of Thrones. That was awesome. I mean, I thought it was like her. If you didn't get by the time that you found out that the nightmare was the Shepherd King, if you didn't get it then, then you're like the main character just died and there's a sequel. Right.

1:07:04 OK, that's not the main character. But here was my issue was that when I figured out that it was the shepherd king and when Elsbeth figured out that it was the shepherd king, we're totally would have been at the same moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I only have the information that Elsbeth has.

1:07:19 It's a first person point of view. I do think that's a preference thing like some I there are definitely authors who like to play with like you've like the reader realizing things and like wanting to shake the POV and there was very much some of that in but. Yeah, she was way better about it in book 2, like she was.

1:07:38 Well. I think she kind of figured it out too, right? Because there's a big mystery about Raven too, right? And like, I, I felt like Raven and I figured it out to get like, there were pieces of it, right? It was like, OK, he's obviously like his descendant, but like, what are the pieces of it? Yeah, because like he had the missing son and like there was all this setup and I was like, wait, is Raven actually his missing son or is he a descendant?

1:08:01 Like I felt like there was still mystery. I had like 90% of it, but not all of it. By the time Raven figured it out, whereas with Elsbeth I was like, but his blood his. Blood opens the thing. Yeah, I knew he was his descendant. I just didn't. I knew he was related to the Shepherd King. I just didn't know, Like how I didn't know if he was like the missing son somehow had his memory wiped or something. But no, he's just, he's a descendant, which makes sense. Yeah.

1:08:28 I mean, I thought it all came together really, really well. I thought it was great. I thought Book 2 was so good. So good. So good. Magic system. Great like I I know you said that the cards were hard to remember I feel like by book 2 I remembered all the ones that mattered The Skype was how do you say that word Skype Scythe Yeah, OK Scythe card was fun Maiden card was fun the nightmare card was fun the nightmare card was fun I do like.

1:08:58 I wish we had a better explanation for why certain people's magic was the way that it was. Like why did Elspeth? Like maybe this would be more obvious to me on a reread, but like Elspeth absorbing what the nightmare gave up sort of thing. I don't know. I guess a couple I think was that Riddle, like the girl and the king and the nightmare we became or monster we became or whatever it was. It was kind of like whatever the Spirit decided to give you basically.

1:09:27 I think like that's, that's what it was with the sickness. Yeah, that's objectively what it was. But like, why? Why? Why certain people? I don't know. I wish we had gotten more time with the spirit. Honestly I felt like that was too too fast because I remember the shepherd king saying in book 1 about the chamber like she always she asked for a window. She wanted a window.

1:09:53 Yeah. And then we never really follow up on on that. Right. Like I thought he was keeping the spirit of the woods in that chamber, but I don't think he ever was. I don't know. Yeah, I have to do. I don't think there's follow up. OK, we'll repeat it. We're not going to cover it on this pod though, because it's.

1:10:08 Yeah, completed. That's also just like simply not enough. Enough. We only do. 16 books here. No, to be clear, three books is optimal. 3 books is optimal. Yeah, 2A duology that's completed is probably not quite enough. I don't know, maybe it would be interesting at some point to do shorter. Series, but loved Elm.

1:10:30 Elm just had such good development. Elm was great. Elm was like, he was probably my favorite character, honestly. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, Elm was so good. He was such a good mix of like funny and smart and brave and like all of the things that we love in our male main characters. He was just great, honestly. The nightmare was one of the best characters but sometimes I got like really mad at him.

1:10:53 I wasn't always pro nightmare. I agree for sure. I agree, sometimes I was like, you're really being a Dick. Dude, like, yeah, yeah, especially because I did like Raven and some like, why Raven really hate Raven? He's literally your descendant. Like he's your blood. Like why are you? Being such a Dick, yeah I don't know, but that's OK. I would still recommend this series. Yeah, I thought it was good, although I ended up picturing Raven, unfortunately for the majority of the book, as basically a Raven because of the number of times they alluded to his nose looking like a beak.

1:11:27 Yeah, it's kind of ruined. The attractiveness for me, I know that we were supposed to perceive him as attractive. Kind of ruined it. Kind of wish that didn't happen. I'm now realizing that Elm and Carrie on Swift are the same in my head. I can only come up with so many characters guys. It's just I definitely have.

1:11:41 Yeah, I feel like they have similar notes. Yeah, they're both redheads. Both redheads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. It's cute. Magic system was fun. Story was fun. I actually think that like the story and the layers of it and put like pulling back on it is really, really nice. I don't know if I'm making sense, but when you're like close to the plot, it's like cute. And when you pull back on the plot, you're like, this is this is really good.

1:12:06 I think it's a prime book for a reread exactly like you said. Like, I think it's just, yeah, because like we've talked about this before, but like anytime I'm reading a book for the first time, it's for the characters. So the second time is when you get to like enjoy the magic system and, and the world building and everything. So I'm sure I'll find, I'm sure I'll see way more on my second reread.

1:12:29 I also like that she just thrusts you into a world and you have to figure it out and there's not much explanation. That's always my favorite kind of book to read. Yeah. Yep. Like I'm like, what the fuck are Highwaymen, you know? Yeah, Yeah. You just, like, made-up a name for a robber and we just went with it.

1:12:44 Yeah. And I'm good with it. I'm good with it. Cool. Bravo, Rachel Gillig. Bravo. OK, Cool. Cool. Anything else? We're reading Brimstone. We're reading Brimstone. I think she also wrote The Night in the Moth, which is, I'll get to it some point, but people really love that book. Yeah. I think I'll read that at some point too.

1:13:03 I have a few things on my TBR that I need to work my way through, but I'll get there. I'm actually debating. Have you heard of the Metal Slinger series? Rachel Schneider. OK, when I just googled the metal singer, I got a list of heavy metal singer. Sorry if the series is Fire and Metal. The first book is called Metal Slinger.

1:13:26 Nope, I've never seen these in my life. Listeners, if you're still miraculously here, let me know if Metal Slinger is worth it and if not, what else is. Because I need I'm still. I'm not going to lie, I feel it's healthy. But I'm on a Sarah J masks hiatus. Not because I want to have less of Sarah J masks in my life, but because I already have an abundance of Sarah J masks in my life and I need variety.

1:13:53 Variety as. Soon as I as soon as I finish Kingdom of Ash, I was like, I feel like I could breathe again. No, I didn't even. Finish the rereads. I didn't even finish my Crescent City reread. And I was just like, that's OK, you know, I got through the parts I needed to get through. If, you know, you know.

1:14:10 All right, Yeah, cool. We already did the social media shout out stuff. You heard it. We're on social media, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. Dragons in the details, POT Discord server, Dragons in the details links in all our BIOS. We've got a Gmail Dragons in the details, pot@gmail.com. We've got a website, dragonsinthedetails.com. Reach out to us.

1:14:27 We love it when you do that. We love hearing from you. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Subscribe. You had a good one. If you're not in the States, Merry Christmas or whatever holiday you celebrate. Happy holiday. Merry Christmas. It's November. Yeah, people in Europe start celebrating the Christmas. Markets are up.

1:14:44 My boss went to. My boss is in London. My boss went to on the other day. That's. True, the Christmas markets are up, but it's still not Christmas. OK, let me remember this episode. It will be December. Fair. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Thanksgiving. We're grateful for you. Have a lovely Monday, we love.

1:15:00 You have a lovely Monday, love you. Bye.