Andy Cohen TELLS ALL! Nene Leakes, Kandi & Phaedra's S9 Scandal, New Love & His Legacy!

0:03 Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives of Atlanta, New Jersey, and my own creation, the Love and Marriage franchise and Bell Collective. Every episode, we recap reality television from the Real Housewives franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset in addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well.

0:36 Okay, so raindrops. The moment has come.

0:42 This has been four years in the making since I started my podcast. I received a DM from this gentleman when it was announced that And he said to me, you are killing it, dude. He's always been a champion for me throughout the years of my work on Atlanta Housewives, Jersey Housewives. He's not only a mentor of mine, he is somebody who I think is just a special human, whether it's his success as a executive producer turned host, turned mogul, a five times New York bestselling author. And on top of that, he is somebody that I absolutely look up to.

1:28 Give it up for the white Carlos King.

1:34 That is the best. That is the best. Because you have been called the Black Andy Cohen, right? Yeah. All right. Well, it's a compliment. Let's be clear. I love it. I love it. Let's be clear.

1:46 It's the best compliment in the world. But no, give it up, y'all, for Andy Cohen.

1:51 Thank you.

1:52 Thank you. Was that a surprise for you?

1:55 That was so good.

1:57 You know people are gagging right now.

2:00 Let's gag him. Yes, yes, yes. No, I want to.

2:03 Because, you know, listen, you are such a gem in my life and you always have been.

2:09 Well, I knew you when you were a little one, a little tyke running around Atlanta. Those early reunions.

2:19 Yeah.

2:20 And so it's been really fun seeing you grow. And it is so fun. When I was coming out with this book, which is celebrating 20 years, my 20 years on Bravo, I was like... I was like, this is the moment. I got to talk to Carlos. Yeah.

2:40 Well, I appreciate that. And listen, I was up last night reading the book. First of all, it's such an amazing book. It's a scrapbook, not only filled with so many iconic photos, but you get to get into the mind of Andy as he sort of takes us on this journey, not only from each reunion.

2:59 It starts off with Beverly Hills.

3:01 It culminates a little bit in terms of the cities of the reunions with New York City. So I can't wait to get into like the beginning.

3:08 And the end of the middle.

3:09 But he also gives us like behind the scenes photos and stuff and watch what happens live. So we are here celebrating 20 years of a show, Andy, that you have been a part of since OC as a development executive at Bravo. Did you think for one second in that NBC office? that 20 years later, it will still be a monstrous hit that it is.

3:36 Absolutely not. I remember when Lauren Selaznik, the show was called The Real Housewives, and she wanted to add of Orange County. And I thought that was the dumbest thing. And she said, well, we'll do that in case we ever do it in another city. And I was like, we're not doing this show in another city. But Here we are. Here we are. And I wouldn't be where I am without these women and this show. And so... Um, yeah, I mean, the, the book is a celebration of, of 20 years of my personal archive of photos. Every reunion show I turn to my left and I turn to my right and I take a photo on each side and they're all in this coffee table book. And so it's, it's really fun to be able to see it all in one place. And when you look through it, it's

4:25 like going down memory lane of all these iconic moments before they happened.

4:31 No, it's beyond iconic. And like I said, it starts off with Beverly Hills.

4:35 And, you know, one of the best stories that I think really speaks to the genius that you are, in addition to the executives at Bravo, is the fact that Beverly Hills, right?

4:45 Because you were like, why are we doing Beverly Hills? We have Orange County.

4:50 And the producers said, oh, no, it's a little different. And you saw the casting tape. You saw Lisa Vanderpump. You know, I'm like you. I'm a young gay boy who loves soap operas. I'm a CBS girl, though.

5:02 Okay, well, I'm a Young and the Restless guy. Okay. Okay.

5:05 Dusilla Winters.

5:06 Yes. Oh, my God. Victoria Rowell. Oh. Yes. Yes. Shamar Moore. We've had some fun with Shamar in the clubhouse. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. And so, yes, I'm a big. And then Mamie started dating John Abbott. That was crazy. John Abbott starts shipping the maid. I mean, come on. That was amazing. Yes. That was really good.

5:29 So looking at that, you see Lisa Vanderpump.

5:34 Yeah.

5:34 And you're just like, you know, Susan Lucci, what's going on? I was like, oh, wait a minute.

5:38 Yeah. She's like Jackie and Joan Collins. And then you've got the Richards sisters on there who were child actors. And so once I saw that, it was like, oh, yeah, we have a show here. Yeah.

5:55 And we see that the show is now entering into its, what is it, 16th season, I want to say?

6:01 I think so, yes.

6:02 Around that.

6:03 Yes.

6:04 You talk about in the book the moment Lisa Vanderpump did not show up to the reunion.

6:09 Yes.

6:09 And how disappointed you were. Talk to us about that day because, listen, we've done reunions together.

6:16 Yep.

6:17 First of all, he's early. He has no team with him. He uses the girls, the housewives glam. You don't come with a makeup artist. You have your suit and your hanger. You know, like Andy is such not a diva. But you're there for like 15 hours. What hour did you know that Lisa Vanderpump was not going to come?

6:40 Well, we knew the day before. You know, you always kind of hold out hope. And she was just, she was done. And she didn't, you have to, if you, when you show up to the reunion, you have to be willing to either meet someone halfway or at least have the conversation. And I think she was so over it and offended and felt that there was nowhere to go.

7:11 You know, let's go back a few years to when Adrian Maloof did not show up to the reunion. And I talk in the book about, I don't love the way that I handled that moment. I was very flip and we had, I think we had t-shirts for everybody and I kind of threw Adrian's aside and I know she felt a certain way about it. And looking back on it, I thought maybe that wasn't the most, maybe that was a little petty of me. Believe it or not, I've gotten less petty over the years, Carlos. Yes, yes, yes, Carlos.

7:42 I'm trying to think. I'm a grown man. Ha! I'm a grown man.

7:45 Oh, you're grown.

7:46 We'll get to that later. Oh, we will?

7:47 That's like 30 minutes later.

7:49 Oh, okay.

7:50 How grown you are.

7:51 Anyway, so, but yes. And then, you know, it also seemed crazy because we were all, you know, we were all thinking, wow, well, I guess that means she's not coming back. Of course, we were already in business with her on Vanderpump Rules. And we had a stacked cast at the time, but you never... You know, you, she was such a, she was such a centerpiece of that show in a, in a cast of centerpieces, by the way.

8:20 Is there a world where you think she would ever come back?

8:24 I don't think so. You know, it's funny. Beverly Hills is so small. She runs into Kyle like once a year. And they'll send each other something to their table with some snarky remark. I mean, it's quite funny. But I don't think so. I love it, of course.

8:42 Even as, like, the godmother role.

8:44 Like, we see Cynthia Bailey doing it.

8:46 Carol's back on New York.

8:47 Cynthia redefined the friend role. I mean, she really... Genius. She really... But Cynthia was so graceful when she left. And then when she came back in, it's like... I think last season was her first season as a friend, and she really was... She dressed up as Elmer's glue at Shamia's Halloween party, and she sent it to me, and she was like, I'm the glue. And I was like, you are the glue. So I don't think... Do I think Lisa Manor Bump is going to come back as a friend of? I don't see it.

9:21 The godmother.

9:22 The godmother. Okay, well, that's a nicer title. I think that's the new. So we're going to do this. We're going to start calling some friends of the godmother. The godmother. Okay. I like it.

9:29 Nymphid Billy's the godmother.

9:30 Okay.

9:31 Carol Raswell.

9:32 Yes.

9:36 You did that.

9:37 Well. Carol and I have had a journey. Oh, I know. And I write about that in the book, too.

9:42 That's what kept me up at night.

9:44 Okay.

9:44 Because you were so honest about... Because listen, you're like me. You love all the girls.

9:49 Yes.

9:50 And sometimes they're mad at you.

9:52 Yes. Right?

9:53 And you have developed friendships with these ladies.

9:56 Yes. And, you know, Carol I knew for many years before she was... ever on the housewives, she came on the housewives kind of as a lark. I mean, we were at a dinner and she let it slip that she was a princess and we were blowing up the housewives of New York. And I was like, You're a princess? Does princess beat countess? Like, what does this mean? So it just seemed delightful and unexpected for her to join the show. But yes, I'm thrilled she's back too.

10:25 First of all, we'll get back to that moment, but Roni is back.

10:30 Yeah.

10:31 I've been... Opinionated.

10:35 So is everyone. Okay. And by the way, rightfully so. Okay. We'll take our lumps.

10:40 Okay, listen, because, you know, I love my old gals. Not old in terms of, like, age.

10:44 Understood.

10:45 The legacy girlies. But I was sort of like, I don't know. This season, I must say, mazel.

10:56 Thank you. It's Carol. Thank you.

10:59 My favorite so far, because, you know, we're still watching the season.

11:03 I love Daisy. Yes.

11:05 Hayley is insane in the membrane, loving her.

11:09 And Erica is giving Paige DeSorbo vibes. And Erica in the interview chair is very funny and really relatable. She is a relatable billionaire queen.

11:24 How proud of you, because, listen... You thrive in New York City. This is your town, right? And I know when it came to New York City, like with me and Atlanta, like Atlanta will always have a special place.

11:37 Well, Atlanta and New York have always had a special place for me. I think because they've always been the funniest to me. And they've just, there's something so absurd about both of those shows in the best possible way. And so how proud am I that we got it back on track? Very. Yes. It was a very... It's been a journey. It's been a journey. Yes, yes.

12:02 Do you look at Carol coming back as a way of revisiting legacy OGs or vets to come back to the show when the time is right?

12:13 I view it as kind of a lark in a weird way, in a sense, maybe, but really what it was, was Carol for the last few years just felt like, you know, we were, we would always say, you know, I mean, of the legacy women, Carol is the one that kind of fits with this group the most. She has, you know, she's, seen them at the polo bar. I'll get sent pictures of Carol and Aaron or, uh, you know, seeing she's seen them around and she knows them. Uh, so when we brought her back, it was really because she had such a positive experience at Bravo con. She liked the new women. And again, we brought her back as a friend, really as a Lark and we upgraded her to holding an apple, uh, halfway through the season because she was so engaged and she was having so

13:10 much fun. And so we thought, well, this is great. So there was no, I can't say that there was any big, you know, huge plan behind the scenes behind her being brought back. Besides it felt right and organic.

13:27 You two obviously had a very public falling out.

13:29 Yes.

13:32 When it comes to you.

13:33 Yeah.

13:34 How are you able to get past the negativity that these women may say about you at a time when, you know, they're just going through a moment? And as someone who knows you personally, I know you love them and your phone is always on for them. You and Carol found your way back. How were you able to sort of work your way back to that relationship?

14:01 Well, Carol was... I think Carol, it was time. I mean, we literally, I got an email from her at the end of her last season that said, don't speak to me again. And then I didn't run into her in New York City for seven years, eight years. And then she and I had another moment. It kind of flared up. And then she texted me out of the blue. And it was this long text. And she said, I realized I could do this in private. Instead of kind of on my Twitter. And there was something in her text that made me feel like, oh, she's this, there's something of an olive branch in here, even though I knew that she felt strongly about, you know, certain things. And then I just kind of met her halfway and told her where I was coming from. And we wound up

14:50 through these texts. finding middle ground. Hilariously enough, I run into her a week later at the polo bar. Like, had not seen her in so many years. So that kind of began. Then we had her ring a doorbell on Watch What Happens Live, and it was just kind of this slow thing. So in that case, it was time.

15:10 And in terms of a housewife that maybe is feeling a certain way about an edit or how they're being perceived or something, I really view that as part of the job, you know, if they're upset in a moment. And I certainly want, I always want them to end the season in a place where, you know, they feel better about it and we can move forward. Yeah.

15:37 Is there any former housewife that you will love to have that same reconciliation with?

15:47 I think that, You're trying to ask me about Nene? No, I wasn't. Okay. Well, I think that I'll just say that I was really happy as we've been looking back on 20 years of Housewives. I was so happy. that we were able to celebrate her on Ultimate Girls Trip and that she came back. And I think that was such a, I think the fans wanted it. And I think it would have been really hard to do that show without her, especially going to Atlanta. And so I was really happy to be able to have her meet that moment and be on and Kiki and really get flowers from so many people. So, um, that made me really, you know, I'm a really nostalgic person. Yeah. And I think if you look through the book and you look through, um,

16:46 especially what I, what I write about Atlanta and I write about my time with Nini, I mean, we really had some great times and just some absolutely killer moments. And I mean, she made some historic television with you right there, right there with her. So, so I was really happy about that. Yeah.

17:08 No, listen, one of the things that I think is beautiful about that is the fact that you know you and her have talked about the fact that you guys are back texting and you did reach out when you learned something was going on with her son yes and again i think.

17:22 For the world it really does show your heart.

17:26 Some things are bigger than the show and you know greg uh meant so much to so many people and to me included and i always loved him and he was always uh I think I used to call him Pastor Greg at the reunions. I just loved him. He always, he was always someone that I could call on at the reunion and he would kind of, he would kind of, God, what's the word? Neutralize things with his words and his guidance and his thoughts. And so I was so sad when he passed and, you know, certainly, yeah, some things are bigger than, then then the show and you have to look at uh life and um respect your journeys in that way one thing.

18:17 She said recently is the fact that she does not want to peach yeah she does she does not want to be full time yeah um she would love to maybe host the girls on a trip yeah for like three days and go back home yeah is that something you're open.

18:30 To Who knows? I mean, you know, I've I've been focusing. It was such a big deal to get her back on UGT and also it rebuilding. You talk about rebuilding New York. We have really and I know that you will understand the brick by brick process that we've been in with Atlanta. And so I've been so in it on that with Truly Original and rebuilding that show. And I'm so happy with where we're at right now. And I think you are too.

19:10 This is Reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show.

19:17 Listen. Yeah.

19:18 You've been very... When it comes to my.

19:23 opinions.

19:26 Yes my opinions about atlanta yes right i know that it holds weight right and i know that i know that you know what it is yeah and i know that sometimes my opinions may come across a bit harsh it's never my intention but all adults right but we ran into each other recently in los angeles and you said carlos i'm like are we back are we back can like, oh, bitch, you're back.

19:51 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's back. It's back. K. Michelle.

19:54 Pinky Cole. Angela Oakley. You know what I mean? The show is back.

20:00 Does Angela give you some charade vibes in her casual reading? Can we talk? Yeah.

20:10 I am obsessed with Angela Oakley.

20:12 Yeah.

20:13 And as a day one Atlanta producer, every time I see her.

20:19 You were like, whoa, what would she have been like?

20:21 With the Nene, the Charades, the Kims, and all of that of the world. She would have marveled. She's marveling now.

20:28 Yeah.

20:30 I think she's the best casting decision that show has seen in a long time. I... I cannot get enough of her. Even though I'm like, Angela, no more investigations. That aside, I think she's stellar.

20:45 Yeah. She's so good.

20:46 In the book, you talk about Atlanta, specifically season nine, you know, the Phaedra incident. In the book, you really were transparent about... wanting to sort of guide Phaedra to sort of show some sort of like, you know, remorse or just have more of a conversation with Candy. Obviously, since that moment, she was off the show. She's now back.

21:12 Candy has been very vocal about not coming back while Phaedra's on the show. Is there a world for you where you would love to see Candy back on the same season as Phaedra?

21:26 I don't think, much like Um, much like to quote Nini, the door is closed. I think in candy's mind to that ever happening. And much like, I don't think Vanderpump would come back if Kyle was on, because I just think she feels like that's done. I, this, I mean, the sense that I get is that candy feels that way too. So, um, you know, look, we're filming a new season right now. So that's not happening right now. I, uh, I only go as far as I can see. So here we are and we're filming and we'll see how this season goes. And then, you know, look, life is funny.

22:14 People make up, people fall out. They may run into each other somewhere and have a moment and figure it out. Who knows, you know, but That's kind of more, it's like Teresa and Melissa. I just, at some point you have to say, you know what? Y'all are going to do what you're going to do. And whatever you're going to do, don't do it for us. Don't do it for the cameras. And I remember when the two of them, Teresa and her brother were going to go meet. I had heard that they were going to go meet and then they were starting to talk. And someone said, does someone want cameras there? And I was like, we have seen this on camera. We've seen you make up many times.

23:01 If this is happening, you guys go do it and we'll catch up with you another time. We'll see if this works. Sometimes you have to live your life and then we'll follow what happens. So, you know, if that happens, we can't force anything to happen with those two. But getting back to your original question, Phaedra at that reunion, I was, I just thought that if she said, if she said to candy, this is why I said it, or this was my motivation, or this is how I was feeling, you know, maybe at least one, there would have been some understanding in the room or there would have been a way to talk through it a little bit. But, um, yeah, that was, that was a done and done.

23:48 Yeah.

23:49 Yeah. Yeah.

23:49 Yeah.

23:50 One of the things that you also mention in the book is Orange County, which obviously is kicking off the 20-year celebration.

23:56 You know, Vicky is back.

23:58 Yes.

23:58 You talk in the book about, you know, the moments in the reunion. You know, Tamra's, that's my opinion. And even her last reunion where... you kind of felt that, you know, maybe this show just isn't what she signed up for anymore at that time. When you look at Vicky now, she's on UGT, she's on OC. She's very polarizing to watch, right? I've had on my podcast as well.

24:27 I'm sure you saw the feedback. People do sometimes wonder, when it comes to Vicky, has she outgrown the show?

24:35 Well, I think that first of all, much like Nene, I don't think you could celebrate 20 years of Housewives without Vicky. So when we picked Vicky up to do Ultimate Girls Trip, it was before we had decided to bring her back to Orange County. And I think when I gave her the orange at BravoCon, I don't think that they had shot Girls Trip yet. No. So, um, so what we shot girls trip, and then we shot orange County a few weeks after that, actually, I think that if they had lived separately, the viewers might have less of a strong reaction. Uh, so they happen to be living at the same time. I, personally think that her arc right now on orange County is really interesting.

25:40 She is, we're looking at a woman. We have 20 years of this woman's life that we've been documenting. She's now, um, in her early sixties life in some ways has turned out, you know, not how she wanted and she has regrets and, She is looking at her life and how it played out and decision she's made. And I think it's really relatable in that way. I think there are other ways that she's really over some of the stuff that comes with being a housewife and the viewers are responding really negatively to that. And that's fair. But I do think that there would be less of a intense reaction if those two shows were weren't airing at the same time.

26:31 Would you bring her back next season?

26:33 Who knows? We haven't shot the reunion. I don't even know if she wants to come. I thought, we all thought it would be important for her to come for 20. And I don't regret that decision. I think it's really, I think there's something, frankly, you know, kind of moving about someone who has lived this life on television for so long who's who has really serious regrets about letting go of her marriage and there's another housewife who's wondering what's going to happen with her marriage her reaction to kyle on ultimate girls trip was much maligned for its perceived insensitivity. But then when you dig into it, you understand that she's saying, I regret what I did. You know, don't make the same mistake that I did. So I

27:30 think there's something there. And, you know, where we go from here, who knows?

27:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaking of where we're going from here, I love Miami.

27:40 Me too. Number one Miami fan. Carlos, if it was up to me, we would be shooting right now. They are the back picture of my book. Yes. So, yes, I absolutely love Miami. And what can I tell you? People say, why was it? Usually when a show is not picked up. Why is that, Carlos? As a producer. Yes. Why is a show not picked up?

28:10 Honey, it's all about the numbers.

28:12 Thank you. Like, the thing is this. Here's the deal.

28:14 I watch Miami like this. And I belly laugh. I'm obsessed with it.

28:19 I get it. Stephanie was a great addition. I love all the girls.

28:25 So, you have K.

28:27 Michelle on Atlanta.

28:29 And K.

28:30 Michelle is fantastic on Atlanta. And I work with her on Love & Hip Hop.

28:34 Atlanta. So, I'm not surprised how great she's doing. She is from Love & Hip Hop.

28:39 There's another woman from Love & Hip Hop Atlanta named Jocelyn Hernandez.

28:43 Yes, of course. Do you know her? Yeah, I know who she is. Okay. Yeah. So, Andy. I think she should be on Miami.

28:49 So, let me tell you what she said.

28:50 Yeah.

28:51 Hear me out.

28:51 Okay.

28:52 Okay. She lives in Miami.

28:55 Okay.

28:55 Okay.

28:57 She has been very public about wanting to be a Miami housewife.

29:03 Okay. Okay.

29:04 She has said publicly, Andy Cohen, that she's the reason why the show is on pause because you don't have her on it.

29:13 That's okay. So she feels like.

29:15 Okay.

29:16 She feels like, tap me in, coach. Listen, if we get a.

29:20 Green light, she's going to be the first person we call to put on a casting tape. Okay. I mean, you know, there you go.

29:26 I think she'll be great.

29:27 I love Miami. If it was... I want people to understand who reach out to me on social media, yell at me about Miami. It was a show that I was an executive producer for. If you have a show that you're producing, you want it to get picked up. Right, Carlos?

29:44 I know.

29:44 Thank you.

29:45 It's sad when it doesn't.

29:46 Yes.

29:46 It's not a good feeling.

29:47 So I would love for Jocelyn Hernandez, in addition to Lisa Milan.

29:54 I love Lisa Milan.

29:55 She lives in Miami now.

29:56 Yes, I love Lisa Milan.

29:58 Okay.

29:58 Lisa Milan at BravoCon two years ago came up with, she floored us in front of like 3,000 people when I asked Sharae, who makes that dress? And she said, Alexander McQueen. And Lisa Milan said, Alexander McQueen or Alexander Sheen. I mean, I fell to the floor. I mean, it was Kenya Moore I thought was going to pass out.

30:32 I mean, it was legendary. So, you know. I think she'll be great. I think she'll be great.

30:39 So that was my little advice in terms of how I felt like we could bring Miami back.

30:44 Get Jocelyn and Lisa Milan.

30:46 Okay.

30:46 Okay.

30:47 Okay.

30:48 Now, we have to talk about you.

30:50 Okay.

30:51 Listen.

30:52 Yes. You are....

30:55 This media mogul. And I know you're humble.

30:57 And I know this is the part of any conversation you hate talking about.

31:01 Okay.

31:01 You don't like talking about yourself.

31:02 Okay. Well, I mean, I love talking about myself. No, no.

31:05 I mean, in the sense of— Have you met me? I meant in the sense of when someone reminds you of what you built, this empire you built for yourself.

31:15 Thank you.

31:16 You are a little gay boy from St.

31:18 Louis. Yes, I am. Right? Yes.

31:20 Who watched soap operas.

31:21 Yes.

31:22 Who, who's, who's auntie pour sweet tea on him because you were in the car just talking for two hours on a road trip.

31:31 Right.

31:33 You are living this dream.

31:35 I am. Yeah, I am.

31:37 Is it everything you thought it would be?

31:40 Yes, it is. It really is. I can't believe it. I feel like the luckiest guy in New York city. Um, When Watch What Happens Live started, I remember the first night one of Watch What Happens Live, me and Danielle Staub with Sarah Jessica Parker calling in on the phone. And I went to the bathroom before we went live and I looked in the mirror and I wasn't sweating.

32:03 I wasn't nervous. I was so at peace. and I felt so lucky. I could not believe there was a studio that I was walking into. That was a show that I got to host. So, um, and to have been a part of what I think is the greatest, uh, greatest unscripted soap opera of all time, uh, is, you know, absolutely everything I was ever interested in and more. So, uh, you know, we just, we launched this Bravo verse on Peacock of this endless universe of clips of Bravo that just keeps going and going and going. And it's like this unbelievable well of memories, but incredible moments. And I was talking to the folks who, who, who devised the Bravo verse. And I was like, Look, they kept sending it to me saying, what do you think? And I

33:03 was like, look, we can't launch this until I love it because I actually am the number one fan of this. Don't get it twisted. Like, I love this as much as you and anybody else who's watching.

33:14 And I want to say this about because I don't think people know this and I want to not to cut you off, but I have to say this. Your memory is impeccable when it comes to.

33:25 Idiotic moments that have happened.

33:27 Like, like, like, like, like when I was working on the show, you would call me and say, Carlos, like, you know, remember that moment where Sheree did this?

33:33 You should like, maybe.

33:34 And I'm like, how the fuck do you remember that with everything you have going on?

33:38 Right.

33:39 You love this more than anybody I know.

33:40 I really do. You do. Yeah, I really do. You really do. Yeah.

33:43 Is it, is it sometimes hard to.

33:51 Be a part of something so big?

33:54 And not get the respect that you feel you deserve. Because when I look at what Watch What Happens Live has done, you have single-handedly built a late night show in cable that celebrates unscripted talent. Especially, not just the Bravo Leberties, unscripted talent, but you also got people like Julia Roberts on the show, right? Which I know you're like, I got Oprah, Julia Roberts, Mariah Carey, switch seats.

34:17 You know what I mean? Like, you have all of these amazing people celebrating you.

34:20 Do you sometimes feel like you don't get the same recognition as your talk show counterparts.

34:28 You know what? There was a moment, excuse me. There was, there was a moment where I was in my feelings kind of, um, at some point in the run, we've been doing this 17 years now. I am, actually just so happy to still be on the air and still being able to do it. The TV landscape has changed. Colbert, number one show in late night, just won all these Emmys, gets canceled. So trust and believe that every year when we get picked up, I am like, wow, we get to keep doing this another year. And we have a party that night and watch what happens live. So the rest is... I feel respected by the people who matter to me and I just want the viewers to keep watching and loving it. And so the rest is, it really doesn't matter. You know?

35:28 When did you accept that for yourself?

35:30 That's a good question. I don't know. I think around seven, years ago, maybe it's not, I don't know. Yeah, it was both. No, it was before the 15th anniversary. It was, it was just, it got to a point where I was like, wow, we're still doing this. And the, you know, get out of your head, you know, there was a vanity fair photo of all the late night hosts one year, um, in like 2014 or something. And I was really pissed that I wasn't in this picture. And Chelsea Handler was in it, who was on E! at that time. And James Corden was in it, whose show hadn't even launched yet.

36:21 And I was like, well, I mean, I'm on at 11, you know, whatever. And so, but again, yeah, I got over it. I got over it. It's actually not important.

36:34 It's not?

36:34 No. It is not.

36:36 Because, you know, listen, you are ambitious, right?

36:39 Yes.

36:39 So the thing is this. Are there still dreams you want to accomplish? Because even so, like, there were people who thought, like, okay, he's going to be with Kelly Ripa on daytime. You know, there were people, there were words about that. First of all, was that a gig you wanted?

36:56 I think there was a moment where I thought that I did. But it never seemed ultimately realistic. First of all, I was under contract to NBC Universal and I would have had to leave something that I helped create and build and was doing so. And the other thing is, I think that it just, it didn't, it seemed exciting and like a dream. And it's funny, I got one of those, one of those digital frames recently. Do you know one of those? And so I have one in my office and one in my living room. In the living room I put all these family pictures. And in my office I've been throwing in all these photos from just like more personal stuff that my kids wouldn't care about.

37:55 But a picture of me and Kelly co-hosting live came up from like one of my first times. And I was like, I gotta put that in because It meant so much to me. It meant so much that she thought that I could do it. And it was a really big deal and it was so exciting. And so I'm just, look, I treasure my friendship with her. And also I have to say doing a show on your own, I love doing my stuff with Anderson and he and I are on the road and I love doing New Year's Eve with him. But, you know, when you host a show by yourself.

38:28 There's nothing like it.

38:29 Yeah, I know. It's pretty great, you know.

38:31 No, because you don't have to answer to anybody.

38:33 I know.

38:34 Do you know what I mean? And it's your stuff.

38:36 Yes, exactly. And I also, you know, I'm kind of outside of Bravo, the last word on my show editorially. And, you know, so, you know, I have a great gig. But yes, there was a time where that would have been cool.

38:54 Is there anything that you want to accomplish that you haven't yet in terms of your career?

38:59 Not really. I mean, everything right now is gravy. I love doing long form interviews. I love being on the radio and being able to sit with someone for longer than, you know, I mean, my show is so frenetic and it's fast. And so it's like short attention span theater. So I like doing long form interviews, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm really, Happy and settled. Yes.

39:29 Oprah retired. the Oprah Winfrey Show 25 seasons.

39:32 Yes.

39:33 Okay.

39:34 Yeah.

39:34 You're at 17.

39:35 Yes.

39:37 Do you see yourself doing it? Watch What Happens Live to 25 seasons.

39:41 We are picked up through 18. Okay. And so through the end of 2027. So again, I only go as far as I can see. I hope they will pick it up for another year after that, but I only go that far. I would like to keep the Housewives going for as long as humanly possible. I would like to keep Radio Andy and Andy's Kiki Lounge going for as long as possible. And again, I just don't, you know, I just, that's all I can think about.

40:16 When it's all said and done for you.

40:17 Yes.

40:17 Like when you retire and you hang up the microphone.

40:21 Retire? Well, listen.

40:23 I know, I'm just kidding.

40:24 When you hang up the microphone.

40:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:27 Is there anybody you can see yourself passing.

40:31 The torch to? I think that will become apparent if it ever would come to that. I can't imagine saying, I want to leave Watch What Happens Live and hand it to somebody. You know what I mean? I think I will go down with that ship unless something absolutely terrible happens or I get canceled or something and they're like, We're doing this without you. But, you know, so, but I, again, that's not something that I really think about.

41:04 You have his glow.

41:05 Yes.

41:06 It's not the J-Lo glow.

41:07 Okay. Okay? Yes.

41:09 But you have his glow.

41:10 Okay, Carlos. Okay. What's the glow?

41:13 You have a glow of a man that looks like he's in love.

41:16 I'm in love.

41:18 You are in love.

41:19 Yeah, I am. Yeah. You are. Yeah.

41:23 Is this the first real love that you've ever felt in your life?

41:29 No, but it's a really adult, grown-ass love of a man with two kids who I know myself better than I've ever known myself. I'm more settled than I've ever been in my life and where I'm at and where I want to be, which is right where I am. And so it's very centered. It's very centered. It's very calm. And I'm very sure of it. You are. Yeah.

42:05 When did you realize he was the one? Because, listen, I've known you for a long time. I've only known you to have one other boyfriend. You kept that very private, right? So I'm not going to say anything about that. But that was very private. And this one... I was surprised.

42:19 Okay.

42:19 That you made this one public.

42:21 Well, it was made public. Uh, we were like holding hands, leaving a restaurant and a paparazzi got us, but we had been holding hands for a year all over the West village and nobody really in, in restaurants. I mean, we literally sit in restaurants holding hands. So, and nobody said anything. So, um, So that happened. I would have said something eventually because I do demand a certain level of transparency to the people who are in the chair across from me. And so I thought, and I was saying to him around that time, at some point soon, I'm going to have to let the cat out of the bag because I'm really happy. And I want to share that with people, but also it just seems a little hypocritical not to, not to, you know, speak on

43:10 it when I kind of demand it of others. And I also speak so much on the radio. I mean, I'm on the radio, um, uh, four mornings a week and I'm, I'm, I'm talking a lot about myself and my kids and everything else. So it just seemed natural that that would happen.

43:28 How did your kids feel about him?

43:30 They love him. They really love him. Yeah. And we didn't tell them until uh, eight months into dating that he was my boyfriend. So I really let them fall in love with him. And they did before I ever said anything. And then, you know, I said to my son first, I got, I got to tell you something. Um, he's my boyfriend. And he was like, Oh daddy. He was like, he goes, Lucy and I just love him so much. And you love him. And you've wanted a boyfriend. And, now you have one. And it was so sweet. And he was just, it was everything I would have wanted it to be. And it's so funny because for, for, you know, for the last few years, he would say to me, daddy, why don't you have a boyfriend? And I'm like, well, I haven't met the right guy. And

44:25 he'd be like, what about John Mayer? John Mayer, he's not doing this. And he's like, what about Bruce, who is my best friend? I love Bruce. Yeah, Bruce is great. I'm like, well, Bruce is married. He is? Yes. I know Bruce is married.

44:44 My bad, Bruce.

44:44 Yes. Anyway, so yeah, no, it's been a beautiful, it's been a beautiful thing.

44:51 You know, the girls gag when they saw your boyfriend. First of all, he's, he's, he's, he's hot. Well, you know, I showed the girls all at Bravo con. And let me tell you something about the real housewives.

45:00 Yeah. I mean, I was showing his picture to, I showed Giselle a long time ago. Um, I showed a lot of the girls at Bravo con, uh, What Portia was so funny when I showed her, she goes, oh, he's older than you. I was like, he's not, but you just made my day. So no, they kept the secret.

45:23 No, he's very hot. Some people were shocked because they expected you to be a black man.

45:28 I know. Well, I said on Potomac famously.

45:31 Yes.

45:32 But I've been like the UN, you know, you know.

45:37 All flavors.

45:38 Yes. All colors. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. The thing that.

45:44 I want to ask you about this, because you, I mean, you're in your skin, so I don't think you really see what we may see.

45:50 Okay.

45:50 So outside of you, you're a big fucking deal.

45:54 Thank you. You're really nice. No, no, no, no. You're being very nice to me. No, I'm not. What do you want from me?

46:02 Do you have time?

46:03 No. Okay. So, no, no. The thing is this. Okay.

46:06 Like, you can't walk down the street anymore without being recognized.

46:10 Like, that's your life. You know what I mean?

46:12 Yes.

46:13 So, you know, as I'm watching Roni... You're a big deal, too.

46:17 Yes. Okay. And I'm not.

46:19 I mean, not as big as you, honey, but, you know, I receive that.

46:21 We're not measuring our dicks right now. But.

46:25 You're in a relationship with a guy who's not a celebrity.

46:29 Yes.

46:30 And did you ever see Love Story?

46:33 I didn't watch it. Okay. Yes. Okay.

46:36 I watch it.

46:36 And obviously I'm watching Roni and the top of this earlier season, they were talking about it. You know, Caroline dating JFK, this big celebrity.

46:45 And she felt like.

46:46 I love it that I'm the JFK Jr. You are. Am I the Jew FK Jr. In this story? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Good. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Okay.

46:58 Obviously up until. dating you, he was a private citizen. Is it challenging for him?

47:06 Yeah, he doesn't care for it. Yes, he doesn't care for it. He doesn't like it.

47:11 How do you protect that relationship to where your celebrity doesn't really need it?

47:16 We only go as far as we can see. Okay. And it's why on my radio show, I really don't, I refer to him. I don't talk that much about us. I kind of refer to him as my guy or my fella or my boyfriend. I mean, and, um, you know, when we go to a work thing, um, and he comes with me, then, you know, he understands how this all works. He's a very smart adult person. So he'll be in a photo with me and, you know, that's that.

47:51 But I mean, the great thing is he's not, by the way, he's never seen the housewives. I got him to watch traders. Um, I really wanted him to come. It was very important to come to the ultimate girls trip premiere party with me because those women on ultimate girls trip and many more of the women who were going to be at the party were, I mean, Karen Huger was there and Cynthia was there and, people who I really love and, and I've been in business with for many, many years. And I wanted, I was excited. Look, I've met all of their people. Yeah. Them to meet my person. He had a business trip and he had to leave the, one of the great thing is he's very busy and he has a very, uh, busy job and life. And that's great because it keeps me engaged

48:41 because if I was dating someone who was always around, that wouldn't be amazing. It's great because we're both busy and we have our own things going and we kind of meet in the middle. What was the question? He doesn't want this. Did I answer it? No, you did answer it.

49:01 Wedding bells?

49:03 I mean, Carlos, I only go as far as I can see. Okay.

49:07 That's good.

49:08 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

49:10 So when it comes to you, you are now- I really.

49:14 Appreciate you're doing all of this without any questions.

49:17 Oh, I don't write down questions.

49:18 Yeah. Because the thing is this. Great.

49:22 I'm a journalist.

49:23 Yeah, I get it. Right?

49:24 So, I like to, like... I do all my research.

49:26 Remember when Portia said on the reunion that she was a journalist? And you're trying to... And I was like... Yes.

49:30 And you said, really?

49:31 She said, oh, really? You're trying to.

49:32 Don't play my job?

49:33 I know. She was mad. And you were like, okay.

49:35 So, that leads me to this.

49:37 Yeah. Because.

49:38 When it comes to you, right, you have had your moments with these girls on Housewives at the reunions, and you talk about it in the book. So I want to talk about a few moments that I always wanted to.

49:51 Know how you felt.

49:53 Like, the portion was a good one to kick things off.

49:56 You were like, okay, girl, my bad.

49:57 Yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

50:00 When you were at the reunion this past Beverly Hills.

50:04 Yes.

50:05 And you had Kyle on one side and Dorit on the other.

50:10 Yes.

50:11 And you asked Dorit a question. You're like, well, Dorit.

50:13 She goes, why don't you ask her? I mean, I don't think I thought. Did I react? Did I do like. You did this. Yeah. She's like, she's right there.

50:24 You asked her and you said, yes, she is.

50:27 Yeah, right. The answer is it was when I left that day, I did not think twice about it. These days, as you know, are so long that even when I got pushed by Teresa, it was like hours later that I was like, wow, she pushed me. You know what I mean? Like it's, you were in such a, you're so shell shocked after the unions. It's so dramatic and intense for real that sometimes you don't remember these little things.

51:06 And then I'm watching a cut and I'm like, Oh, caught a stray yes what else did you want to ask me about.

51:13 So so you have that moment yeah you also have a moment when you're hosting reunions of roni back in the day and you're like sitting there you wore a black suit with a black tie white shirt underneath okay and you're like shut up yes okay that.

51:29 Was the first time i yelled at a group of housewives and i i don't like yelling having to yell to get everyone's attention and so many times viewers are watching and they say why can't he control them i've gotten way better at it but it's hard as you know yeah um so yes i was losing my mind then the new york women in the early years i was so entertained by them and it was so funny but also they would make me kind of lose my mind in a way yeah.

52:06 No So because of that, everyone talks about the most iconic moments from Housewives. But you also have iconic moments too. So I wanted to present you with something. So I bought you a gift.

52:18 Okay, thank you. I'm excited. I'm gonna rip it. You made me my own book, the book of Andyism. 12 iconic reunion lines from the king of the cue cards, a table book. Wow. I have my own coffee table book and you made me a coffee table book.

52:39 I made you one.

52:40 Wow. This is amazing. Of Andy's. First of all, I love the cover art. Oh, I mean. Yeah.

52:45 Okay.

52:47 Yeah. Oh, this is so funny. My cards. Vanderpump rules. The cue card casualty. Oh, this is so nice, Carla.

52:56 Yes, that was all.

52:57 You signed it. My cards. You are a disaster on Twitter. To Candice. Look at this. Wow. I mean, do we have time to update my book to add all these?

53:07 Has it gotten better? Um, well, she acted out a little after traitors.

53:12 Okay. Shut up, shut up, shut up. New York city season four, the shut up meltdown. Actually. No, I'm not honey. Real outside of New York. I remind Ramona exactly who is and isn't on reality TV. Can we bring the bunny out? Amazing. Shut up. I got a dinner reservation. Honestly, that was when Teresa and Margaret wouldn't stop fighting. Now I didn't love that one because it made it seem like I had something better to do than being there.

53:46 And the truth of the matter is I was, I was there and I didn't have anything better to do. I should be there. You guys are acting like beasts today. Housewives of New York. I remember that one at a time. A noble request. Rarely honored, he says. We have to move on. Multiple Bravo reunions. The reluctant pivot. That is so funny. Who is the thirstiest? A tiny superlative. That's not a no. The Morgan Wade question on the Housewives of Beverly Hills. Well handled. This is so great, Carlos. Yes, it's for you. Let's watch.

54:28 Yeah.

54:28 I love. This is great.

54:30 No, it's for you. It's for you.

54:31 I love it.

54:32 I wanted to make sure you had that.

54:33 It's great.

54:34 Now, I couldn't let you go without turning the page on you.

54:39 Okay.

54:40 So, Andy Cohen.

54:41 Yes.

54:42 Now is the moment for you.

54:45 To plead the fifth. Okay.

54:47 You ready for this?

54:48 Yes.

54:49 Jamie can't wear glasses. You know, I'm in my 40s, child. So, these eyeballs ain't what it used to be.

54:53 How old are you now?

54:54 I'm 46.

54:56 All right.

54:56 Yes.

54:57 No, what you say is, I'm 46. Okay. All right. No, I'm happy. I'm happy. Look at where you are in your life. I'm blessed. Yes.

55:08 I have no complaints.

55:09 Look at what you know, where you've been, and where you're going. No complaints. Yes. At all. At all.

55:14 So Andy Cohen, plea the fifth. I'm going to ask... This is so funny doing this with you.

55:21 Because I have to explain the game that you created. You really don't. You have three questions and I may plead the fifth to only one. Only one. Okay. I hope I don't plead the fifth to any of them. You ready for this? Yes.

55:36 Andy Cohen.

55:37 Yeah.

55:38 Which celebrity will you never invite back to watch what happens live and why?

55:44 Um... Gosh. I mean, I've talked about this before so many times and I hope it doesn't get picked up because I actually feel like it's like it's so anyone who's listening is like page six or us weekly, you don't have to pick this up because Google it. It's been picked up like 18 times, but Jillian Michaels, because when she left, she like screamed at half my staff.

56:15 I don't know what she was mad about. She hates me. So yes.

56:20 All right.

56:20 The fitness lady. Oh, I'm aware. An expert on a new expert on slavery. Apparently.

56:26 That's why I'm very aware.

56:28 Yes. Of course. Yes. Okay. Okay.

56:32 Andy Cohen.

56:32 Yes.

56:33 Name one housewife Bravo fired that you personally did not agree with.

56:43 Well, you know we don't fire housewives. Paul. Everyone leaves at their own volition. No, no, no.

56:50 I have decided to focus on my family, my businesses.

56:54 Yes, go ahead. I feel I don't have regrets about when we've let go of people, it's been for a reason. I don't have any regrets. Okay. There are people that I wish wouldn't have left the show. I mean, we talk about Lisa Vanderpump. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

57:17 Have you ever hooked up with a celebrity that ended up being a guest on watch what happens live?

57:25 No. I mean, Lance Bass, we've talked about. Again, that's been picked up so many times. Don't pick it up. Again, he's a married man. He has children. We have talked about this so many times. Him. Who else? I mean, that's the name I'm giving you. There may be one or two more. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

57:50 My last question.

57:51 You didn't play the fifth. I didn't.

57:54 That wasn't too bad, was it?

57:55 No, not at all. Okay, okay.

57:57 So, Andy Cohen.

57:59 Yes.

58:01 What advice do you have for me?

58:03 Oh, I... You don't need any advice. I think when you started... Yes. I think in my mind, I had some advice for you, but I actually think you figured it all out. I think you are... I think you're doing a great job. I think you are. Um, so it's, it's not even worth me saying because, and I, I never, you and I never had the conversation, but I think you figured out the way to like, you're very, you're smart in the way you express yourself. And you can be, people want to hear what you think. Uh, and I think you're very smart about the way that you express it. And, um, so that you can also continue. People don't realize for someone who is producing a show and comment on other shows and also interviewing people from their own show, there

59:17 is a middle ground that you have to, you have to figure out a way to be in the middle while also giving people what they want, which is opinions and, and attitude and all that. But at the end of the day, you have to keep producing the shows you're producing, be in business with people, get people to come on your show. You are going to be asking Bravo for things.

59:44 You may be pitching Bravo for shows. And I think that you found your voice. You found your voice. So I don't have it. Okay. You found your voice.

59:57 I appreciate that.

59:58 Yeah.

59:58 And I do want to say this.

59:59 I said this to you personally, but I'm the type of person, this is just me, where, listen, you know there's people who think you and I have this beef.

1:00:09 Do they? Yes.

1:00:10 Well, why?

1:00:10 Don't they know what we've been through? I'm the black Carlos Gale. I'm the black Andy Cohen. No, the thing is this. I think- I'm the white Carlos. No, I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

1:00:22 No, I think what has been unfortunate, and it's nothing you have done.

1:00:26 Listen, people- Yeah. Everybody thinks everything. Yes, but my- It's nonsense.

1:00:31 You have always been someone. I remember one of the first conversations we've had, and the advice you've given me. You've always- reached out to me to give me advice. When things were happening on production, you have called me to say, it's going to be okay. We love you. We got you and all those things. And when I did get my podcast, you sent me the sweetest message.

1:00:56 And I do want you to know from my mouth to your ears, I'm able to do everything I'm doing, hosting reunions for my own shows, having a podcast, because of you.

1:01:08 Thank you.

1:01:08 You have paved the way for me.

1:01:10 Thank you.

1:01:11 And I never get offended when people say you're the black Andy Cohen.

1:01:17 Because I know the weight that it carries.

1:01:21 Well, I hope you wouldn't get offended.

1:01:23 I don't get offended. I don't get offended.

1:01:25 And what I've always said to people is, my hope one day is that you guys can see both of us as individuals.

1:01:31 Yes.

1:01:33 But let's be fucking clear.

1:01:34 Yeah.

1:01:35 I'm able to host reunions because, Andy, you have shown networks.

1:01:41 That it can be done.

1:01:43 And I just need for you to know that I love you, I respect everything you have done, and I really am so happy that you said yes. You could've said no, not the time. You literally said yes to me, and I don't take that for granted.

1:02:00 Thank you so much. I'm so proud of you. I mean, I remember being at reunions in the early days of Atlanta, and you were And you were, I'd be, I'd be like, Carlos, is that right? Is she telling the truth? And you'd be like, so I'm really proud of you. And yeah, I'm excited for everything you've done and I was really excited to have this conversation. And looking back on 20 years of Housewives and celebrating the release of Andy's Bravo scrapbook, which makes the best freaking Christmas gift, you guys. And you are going, if you love Bravo, you are going to love this book. It is truly behind the scenes from my vantage point. These are photos, Most of which I have taken and I take you through backstage, uh,

1:02:59 of everything. And I put a lot of opinions in there that you've been waiting for. And so I was really excited to come talk to you and I can't think of a better time to do it. And I'm really excited for you and I'll just be, keep watching and cheering you on. Yeah. Likewise. Likewise.

1:03:15 So listen, raindrops, the raindrops, you need to have a name for your, it's fine.

1:03:22 We got to come up with one.

1:03:23 You know what? We've been trying on Radio Andy and it's like, eh, Fandies, all these ridiculous things.

1:03:29 I like the Fandies.

1:03:31 It's fine. You don't like it. I don't need the name of my people. Okay. They're fine.

1:03:34 Okay.

1:03:35 Yeah.

1:03:35 Okay, okay.

1:03:36 So listen, Raindrops. It's in stores today, okay? So please pick up a copy. We're talking about a five-time New York bestselling author, okay?

1:03:49 Andy Cohen, ladies and gentlemen. Gays and days. Give it up for him.

1:03:53 Thank you. Thank you. That was great.

1:04:00 Reality with the King is executive produced by me, Carlos King, produced by Jamie Schaefer in partnership.

1:04:07 With the Black Effect Podcast Network.

1:04:09 You can also find us at our YouTube channel at thecarlosking underscore. I'm also dropping tons of exclusive episodes on.

1:04:18 Patreon, which you don't want to miss.

1:04:21 Make sure to subscribe to that, too.