HOT TAM-ALE | RHOC Recap with Alexis Janssen

Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives of Atlanta, New Jersey, and my own creation, the Love and Marriage franchise and Bell Collective. Every episode, we recap reality television from the Real Housewives franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset. in addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well.

Raindrops.

Alexis and Carlos are back for another recap of the Real Housewives of Orange County. Alexis, I mean, look, the past two episodes, you graced us with your presence, right?

My meltdown, you can say that.

How about your mother down, okay? You are giving mother, honey. So not a meltdown, honey, a mother down.

Yes, okay.

So your name was mentioned in this episode.

I literally was watching it like, what?

Well, so was I.

What in the world is happening here?

If Andy Cohen would have had Watch What Happens Live however many times Alexis gets mentioned, take a sip, everybody watching would.

Have been freaking drunk as heck.

I'm like, okay. And the other funny part to that is Janet last episode says, keep my name out your mouth, Alexis, as I'm walking away and I tell her, fuck off, bitch. And then... She mentioned my name. I don't even know how many times, but if you can just see, she's actually like projecting what she needs to stop doing.

I'm like, girl, you.

Got to move on.

Move on.

I'm married to the man for over a year now.

Like, move on. Celebrating her anniversary.

And the thing is, it makes me laugh because you could tell it's all projection because.

You're not even on the show. And it's so.

I have an out-of-body experience every time I hear your name drop because I'm waiting for you to walk in the room.

I'm like, is she?

Oh, fuck.

She's not on the show this season. So are they talking about her again?

Let's be fair. We don't talk before the episodes, you know, before we podcast. But however, if I was going to make an appearance, I would have like called or texted and be like, hey, Carlos, I'm going to be on this episode or whatever. I would have let you at least know that. But like, no, anytime they bring up my name from here on out is just, They're just talking.

It's just going to be talking. There won't be any Alexis walking in.

Well, listen, a girl can dream and anything is possible. It's what I've learned in the game of reality television.

Because who would have.

Thought Kara Radswell would be back on New York City Housewives? And it's so pleasing to my eyes and ears.

So, with that being said, okay. We have to get into this episode. Alexis. I....

Sorry, it was a good episode. It's a lot of deep breaths, but it was a good episode.

Alexis, so good. Also so emotional. Listen, Tamara's back, and let's just get into it. So they're in Japan, and the thing about this recap, which is so interesting... there were two things happening throughout this whole episode. So I feel like there's no need for us to go from scene to scene. I want this to be us talking about, of course, what happened, but just going down the rundown of the relationship. So look, Shannon is with the girls and she's being told that while Vicky was in the car with the other women, Vicky did not say That Shannon and her were best friends. Vicky said that her best friend is someone she's known for years.

She says, I'm close. They ask, are y'all close?

She says, I'm close to Shannon. We're not enemies. Shannon is trying to defend her friendship with Vicky. As she mentions you. Hugging Vicky. And. You know, the girls took that opportunity to talk about Vicky's loyalty to her. Shanna says, I'm very loyal. I've known Vicky for 12 years. And when Vicky is down bad, she's down. So what do you think about all of that in terms of why can't Vicky hug you and still be friends with Shanna? That's the part I'm not quite understanding.

Well, that's like when I was talking about the Heather DeBrove at all, where she's like, I can't go to the wedding. At least Vicky has a backbone. And that's why she's not, you know, feckless. Because Vicky can be like, I'm friends with both people. And sorry, Shannon, you know. And I like that Jim Pedrante showed that also this episode and last episode. It's like, we are 50 plus year old women. We don't need to be choosing lanes.

Because if you do that in Orange County, it's too small. And there's too many people you're going to have to X out from all the divorcees and all the things that are happening in Newport Beach.

Okay.

But, or all of OC, but I felt like, first of all, I've known Vicky for 16 years.

So I went in that one.

Okay.

And Vicky and I have been friends. We were there through divorces together. We were like, you know, like, I don't know. We are friends and we know we can call each other. And we had a little tiff on season 18 because she was defending Shannon too much and didn't know the whole story. But then you see how Vicky gets over things. The one thing about Vicky is, Yeah, she says some hurtful things. I think she's noticing that more this season. But she doesn't hold grudges. She kind of is like, okay, well, move on.

Let's move on. Can't we get over that?

So I appreciate that because I think you should be able to move on at this age, especially if you've said I'm sorry.

So I don't know. That's my two cents. Did any of it make sense?

No, no, no, no, no.

It all makes sense. It all makes sense. It all makes sense. The thing that is happening to me.

As I'm watching this episode is I do feel like the other women are trying to poke holes at Vicky's friendships.

I think it's purposeful.

OK, so I was going to ask you this. I had the same thought. Do you feel like you know how they're kind of going after Heather at the beginning of the season?

Yes.

And now I feel like it's just constantly Vicky.

And I think what viewers don't know and the list aren't the raindrops to consider this is they don't they've never filmed. But you do get kind of beat down and sick of people kind of poking at you. You take it because you know everyone has to take one for the team for the episodes to be good.

It's going to go around.

It's going to be, you know, Emily this week. Then it's going to be Heather this week or this couple weeks. And then it's going to be– it's on Vicky right now. And I think Vicky is just over it. And she's just kind of like, okay, can it be anyone else? Can anyone else please take a little bit of the brunt of it? And some of the things they're poking at her about, I'm kind of like– I think they're silly.

Not the Tamara one. Her and Tamara needed to have that out and have that– hash that thing out. But some of it, I'm just like, okay, get off of her.

You know, I don't know.

Well, I think this is what's happening, right?

I do agree with you that, yes, there is clearly an agenda to poke holes at Vicky's friendships with Shannon and Tamara.

That's obvious.

And you are right when you say at the top of the season, the focus was Heather, right? Like how Heather is duplicitous, two-faced, a phony baloney.

Yeah.

You know, all the things that, you know, I see when I look at Heather Dubrow. The girls are now talking about it. And she did.

One thing that I told you I gave her credit for. She owned it. She said, Carmella, I said some shitty things about you. It wasn't nice. I'm sorry. And Carmella had no choice but to be like, okay.

Vicky, unfortunately, the reason why she's an easy target, Vicky doesn't own anything and... Listen, you can say maybe she doesn't remember or she doesn't give a shit.

Like she said it and it's fine.

But I think the reason why she's an easier target than a Heather is because she does have this tendency to say things that are not nice. And when confronted... She doesn't even want to talk about it. And I think that's the difference between her and Heather.

You're right. You're right.

But here's the other.

OK, the other thing to think about with that is Heather never would have owned that if it hadn't been done on TV or like there. So it never would have been owned. So let's not give too much credit to that. OK. Yes, she did finally own it because she knew that she would have to for viewers to understand and be like, oh, she's great and all this.

But but still, she didn't do it except for the fact that she knew all the other women were talking about it in scene. So it has to be addressed. But with Vicky, you are absolutely right. And I do have to, I'm objective where you have to be objective and she doesn't own it. And I think that's what Jen Padrante was saying. She's like, just own that, you know, what you've said, and then we can move on. We can all put it, because that is part of the thing about this is we all do say things we want to stick our foot in our mouth about or whatever when we're filming. But if you don't own it and you kind of sweep it under the rug, That's why Vicky is getting the pushback.

So you're right about that.

I think that if she would just, but to her defense, her producer or her sidekick on her podcast, Christian, has admitted to me, he's very close with her. They work every day together.

He even admitted to me way back when, when I was doing her pod, he's like, Lex.

Vicki literally doesn't even, she'll say something. She doesn't think it's, she takes things so lightly. It's not like deep, deep, deep. It's just, it's just, we're here to talk about, we're here to film a podcast. We're doing, we're here to film a TV show, whatever we're filming. So in my mind, knowing Vicki's heart, I don't feel like she does things with malice in her mind.

I think she's... You know what malice means? Or why did you.

No, I disagree with you. Oh, okay. Tell me.

I don't think everything she does is with malice, but I definitely think she does things.

With malice intent for sure. Wow. I think.

I think telling Carmella that you should be home with your 15-year-old daughter because my grandson is 14 and my daughter would never do that, I think that's intentionally being malicious and mom-shaming. Now, do I think saying something flippant like, oh, I'm not... I'm not enemies with Shannon.

I'm close.

I think something that small is malicious. I don't think she looks at Shannon as her best friend. She looks at Shannon as a great coworker. That if they had a cubicle, they're cubicle sisters.

I completely felt that too. And I think Vicky, Vicky is.

A guarded person.

So I think Vicky just had her guard up and just does have her guard up knowing on this TV show, that people do kind of throw each other under the bus sometimes and then have to apologize. So I think Vicky's just very guarded. I don't think it's, you know, I wonder, I wonder like if we could ever ask Vicky, like how much she talks to Shannon when they're not filming or the two years that, you know, or six years that Vicky was off the show, how close were her and Shannon? I mean, I would, I would love to know that.

I've never- Yeah, well, I think, I think she sort of intimated it when she said, we don't talk every day.

Um- Oh, but then Shannon goes, oh, we almost do. So it's like, okay, which one's the truth?

Well, I think it's Shannon's bubble that she resides in on the streets between delusional and unhappy. I think she looks at it like we are friends, but Shannon is only a friend to people when she's in need of them.

When she has need for you, she's friends with you.

I think Shannon has picked up the phone more when Vicky joined the cast because she's able to have somebody.

You know, in her corner.

The thing with Tamra, when Tamra was off the show for two years, Shannon, I'm sorry, Tamra said on my podcast to, you know, when she was fired.

Right.

Can you believe that Shannon has not called me? And we talked every single day. That let me know everything I need to know. So I think two things can be true. I definitely think when it comes to Vicky looking at Shannon, I don't think she looks at her as her best friend. And I would be more surprised if she did say we're best friends because I would just be like, no, you're not.

And I think of her defense. They're not best friends.

I think Shannon's, Shannon does it, in my opinion, live in the real world.

She lives in the world of Housewives of Orange County.

And in Shannon's reality of Orange County on Bravo every Thursday at 8 o'clock and then Fridays on Peacock, I think Shannon believes that Vicky's her best friend because that's the world in which she thrives.

Does that make sense?

Yes, and you put me in a no-win situation, so I'm going to plead the fifth and just.

Okay, all good.

All good.

All good. All good.

All good.

But.

I will say this. And I do want production to really take heed to this.

I'm over this game of telephone. Okay.

Keep going.

You know, I got to be honest with you. I'm over this. If you really sit with Alexis... The drama that's happening on all of these shows, especially Housewives, but let's stick to OC for the sake of this conversation and recap. The drama is courtesy of where she said this about.

You when you weren't around. Well, no, she actually said this about you.

Are you going to confront her? Well, you know, off camera, you said this. And that's not the show I want to watch. And it's interesting to have it every once in a while. But if you really focus singularly on this season, Alexis... The biggest drama, right, has been the game of telephone.

You are so right.

And I never looked at it like that.

You're so right. And it's almost like, you know, you can play that game at your dinner table when, you know, when you're trying to keep your little four-year-olds at bay.

Well, I had four, four, and five.

When you're trying to keep them at bay while we're having dinner, you know, okay, let's pass around and we're all laughing. It's like, you can do that, you know, for a little bit and then that game burns out. So you're right.

It's burnt.

It's burnt. It's charred.

We're done.

We're ready to put it in the trash.

Okay. At this point, you're right. We need some more like meat on the bone, like some real drama, like, like somebody actually getting a divorce, God forbid, or somebody actually getting a wedding and seeing the wedding. Maybe people are sick of weddings, but I'm not, I'm never sick of seeing a wedding. Cause I love love, but yeah, we need some more meat of things. Or like when Lynn Curtin was losing her house and she's still doing her cuffline, you know? It's just like real things happening.

And it is kind of like it's just telephone.

You are so freaking right. This is why you're good at what you do.

Well, thank you. The thing is this.

And that's why for me, I want it to be a show where these women confront each other about it.

Stop telling... these other women, how you feel.

And then they're going to take it and be the bone carrier and say, well, when you weren't around, she said this about you instead of that person saying it to that person's face.

And that, that, that brings me to, um, Tamara of it all.

I was just going to ask that to you because I'm like, well, the one scene that we do have that was authentic and needed to be done is the one between Tamara and Vicky, because I do know, behind the scenes, that that was real feelings. Like that was not, no one was putting on a show there. Nobody was trying to make ratings. Nobody was trying to, on both sides, both Vicky and Tamara, that was legitimate.

No, it is.

So can't wait for us to get to that because that scene gave me chills. And what happened prior to that is we have learned that Tamara says her friendship with Vicky is complicated due to comments that Vicky made on her podcast where she pretty much told the world that Tamara needs to get off the show in order to salvage her relationship with her daughter, Sydney. And for the range dogs who may not know, Tamara, unfortunately, has a daughter who isn't speaking to her. It's her daughter's decision.

Tamara has tried. Tamara has also... respected her daughter's boundaries so it doesn't.

Come across she's trying not trying I'm sorry that.

She's pushing her further away and it's a very delicate dance you have to do because when Vicky said on her podcast two years ago that you know I would be begging down her door my daughter's door begging her to talk to me I would get off the show it I gotta be honest with you, I forgot about that moment, but to be reminded of it, that's a shitty thing to say. And there's just no, and that's another example for me when I say that's another moment of Vicky being malicious. And I think, and I wanna hear your thoughts on it, I think at that time, Vicky was in a very dark place and a bitter place Because at that time, she was fired from the show.

Well, I mean, we are here to be honest. So I'm going to be honest and objective. And it's hard when both of these girls are my friends, right?

So it's really hard.

I'm so sorry for both of them because I know they both podcast, so they both get it. So that's the beauty of me being a friend with them is that they get what I say is, is I'm just trying to talk about a scene.

I'm not talking about their character. And, you know, this is just about the scene.

So I do feel, I never asked either of them this, but I do feel Vicky was bitter at that point.

I do feel like she didn't give Tamara enough.

Grace and the fact that, you know, Tamara had a lot to say about Shannon and Tamara wasn't going to back down and Shannon has a drinking.

Problem or did or whatever it was.

But Vicky or Tamara's allowed to her opinion on that. But Vicky didn't give any kind of grace to Tamra. She just went for the gut jugular on that. And then she went for the jugular also on the kids, on her podcast, I mean, with Tamra's daughter. And I do know a lot more about it. I don't wanna talk a lot about that whole thing, but I just know that it is so much bigger than anyone really does know about it. And it is not just because of Tamra's career. So that just needs to be put to rest. That's why it hurts Tamra so much. And I do feel like Vicky never, really apologized genuinely until this, we'll get to that point. I know I'm jumping, but I do feel like that it finally came out where they were both sorry and they're both like, okay. But yeah,

I think a lot of it had to do with Vicki being bitter and now she's on. So, so she's not as bitter and she's like, why are we still talking about this? You know, but at the same time they had never squashed it.

I get it. Why are we bringing stuff up?

You know, it's kind of like Heather at that party when she brought up what happened three years ago and Jim heard or John heard the crash and Okay, it's the.

Same kind of concept. It's like, no, that's years ago. Why are we bringing it up?

The reason it's more valid in this one is because it cut Tamra so deep that Tamra hasn't had that conversation with Vicky and hasn't gotten that apology until this episode.

This is Reality with the King, and I'm Carlos King. Let's get back into the show. This one is very tricky.

Because, ah.

Well, for Tamara to say, okay, go, no, go.

No, no, you go, go, no, please, please, please.

For Tamara to say in one of those, in that moment when she, she really did have a meltdown, like a, she would never want to act like that on camera. Tamara is very, as you've seen, she's very put together, very stoic on, but she lost it.

Okay.

For her to say, I would probably go back to Simon if I would know and could keep my, you don't say that when you're married to Eddie for 13 years, if you don't mean it and don't have this guttural connection.

Ache in your body.

That's like, I would go back and be in my hell just to have my daughter again, because there is something about the maternal instinct. It is like, if your kids are not with you and not good, you're not good. So, so you won't say a line like that, even on national television. If you're, if, if it's not like the hardest thing ever to not have them being Sydney and her communicating.

Yeah, no.

So when Tamara confronted Vicky, all the girls are together, and she says to her, look, you made these comments. I do want to address it. Like you said, Vicky's like, why are we talking about this? What is so obvious that is happening in this particular moment, because in this moment, the name of the place I forgot, but it's before they all get dressed up. So They're all like sitting around and you could tell Vicky obviously is breaking the fourth wall. Vicky's behavior this entire episode was breaking the fourth wall up. Why the fuck are the producers telling you to bring this up? Why are we talking about this?

Are you guys trying to comfort me? That's obvious. Vicky's like, I apologize to you. And we talked on the phone and Tamra's like, no. And one thing you and I both know about Tamra, you especially, is she has a great memory.

She is a Rolodex, a walking Rolodex and Encyclopedia and Jeopardy master.

Okay. Exactly. Okay.

She remembers everything. And she's like very calmly. No, you did not apologize. And no, we didn't talk about it. And, you know, at this point she breaks down and cries. And when she made that comment about how she was staying in a bad marriage to her ex-husband, if that meant, salvaging her relationship with her daughter i mean whoa whoa to the point where she she is crying hysterically to the point where all the girls console her console her excuse me and vicky leaves.

Well lexus caught something else in that too though by the way so yes you're right And yes, your eyes being that wide open is true because when Tamara said that, all those girls are tearing. And I swear tears fell out of my eyes too because I'm like, I've been in a bad marriage and I would probably do the same.

I would stay if I knew one of my kids were never going to talk to me again because of how, whatever the situation. But what I caught, Carlos, is Jen walks over to Vicky and goes, I think some space would be good.

Let me help you up. Let's go.

So it wasn't like Vicky was just being... Vicky at that moment thought, OK, maybe Jen's right. I mean, I'm not speaking for Vicky because I did not.

Let me clarify.

I have not talked to Vicky about this. But I feel like in that moment, she's like, oh, my gosh, Tamara's having a meltdown.

OK, I'll go with Jen.

I don't think Vicky's sitting there going, OK, let me walk away because Vicky, they end up talking a little bit more later on about it. But I so I caught that because I thought the same thing. I'm like, why isn't Vicky walking over and saying, Tamara? Oh, my gosh, I can see how bad this hurts you. But I heard Jen say that and go help her get up and walk her out. So Vicky's probably like, oh my gosh, okay, I'll just go with Jen.

I mean, that's another way to look at it.

No, no, no.

But I think this. I know you, for example. I... And you tell me if I got this wrong.

I believe.

And listen, you and Vicky are two different people, so I'm not comparing the two of you guys.

Mm-hmm.

Um. I know you and I do believe that if you and Shannon had a moment like that and Shannon.

Felt you said something about.

Her kids, although you never would have, but let's just say in this moment you did and you see her saying that about her ex who cheated on her, David, I just see you trying to In that moment, fuck our issues, fuck.

Whatever, there's a mother crying.

Which is why I thought it was fascinating that of all people, Shannon was the one that bear-hugged Tamara the tightest. Because, again, to your point, you have someone like Jen, where we saw earlier this season, talk about her son who said to her, like, things are different because dad's not with me every day.

And she's like, I make a big mistake.

Look, I just got chills because it is, it is just that feeling of that mom that just, you just are like, you die for your kid.

I mean, dad's would too. I'm not saying that, but a mom was like, you die for your kid.

Mom is yeah. And listen, I told you this before.

Mothers are to me the number one greatest occupation in the world, right? It's a privilege to be a mother. Um, because, uh, I don't know how you guys do it.

I really don't. And like you said, there was not a dry eye in the room.

And yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Jen got Vicky out of there. I would have loved for Vicky to say, Jen, move.

Tamra, gosh.

But I think Vicky....

And we'll see if she talks about this at the reunion. If I'm a betting man and if Vicky's honest... I just think Vicky looks at Tamra as a professional reality star. And I think at that moment, she felt nothing because she's like, she's doing this at my expense.

I don't know how anybody... Like you said, you're at home. You're just like, I'm watching it on my fucking phone like... To me, it shook me to my core. The way you have chills when I brought up Jen.

I'm sure Emily thought about like, damn, me and Shane's going through shit. Can I do this to my kids? I thought about Gina, who's divorced with her kids. And I'm just like, that shit, that to me was one of the realest scenes of Orange County history.

And I would have preferred....

If Vicky would have not thought about how this made her look and was a human in that moment.

Yeah, you're right.

But I also, I feel like I've said all season long, Vicky bit off more than she could chew. And I think that just like when they pulled up this, this episode, Emily goes, Emily was like, The gardener just got here, so it distracted me for a minute. But anyway, Emily was like, oh, you know, when has Vicky ever stayed the whole party? You know, I feel like Vicky's just a little bit over, she's overstimulated. It's a little bit too much. And she bit off more than she could chew.

And I feel like in this scene, the same thing happened. She kind of got overwhelmed seeing Tamara cry like that.

But you're right.

You might be right about that. I never looked at it like that.

But maybe she was like, oh, Tamara's just turning on the waterworks because she's a professional reality star.

Maybe she did have that thought.

The way I read the scene more is just like, she just kind of shut down and she's like, oh my God, like they just keep coming at me.

It's always something. It's always, I'm doing something wrong. I've got my laptop open too much. I leave too early. I'm doing this, I'm doing that.

And they were, you know, kind of like just beat her down a little bit to where she's just like, oh my gosh, I can't do anything right.

Everyone's coming after me every episode.

Yeah.

I think two things can be true. I agree with you. I think that could have been part of it as well, right?

For sure.

But I think we're saying the same thing, except two different angles. I think your hypothesis is more about, I'm tired of getting beat up by these women. And I agree with that. And I think my other one is, I think she looks at Tamara like, here comes the waterworks.

Fuck. Like, I got to get out of here. And that's why even when.

What we saw in the flashback, Alexis, When she got in the car, Emily tells Tamara that Vicky doubled down on it.

And what we saw in the car was Vicky.

Telephone.

Okay.

Another thing of telephone.

Yeah.

No, no, no. This entire scene. is the game of telephone, if I'm being honest.

So, Emily tells Tamara, like, well, in the car, she brought up Sidney and said that Sidney said this publicly, that the way Tamara acts is what... The way The way in which Tamara acts is what Sidney has a problem with.

And I'm just like, Alexis, I'm like.

I was, you know, the head slap. Hey, Carlos. It was like when they were slapping heads. That was the funniest scene ever. I, I, I teetied a little bit.

Cause it was so funny.

I was laughing so hard, but I was like this to my head. I was like, Vicky.

Oh my God. Are you not reading the room here?

Don't bring up her daughter.

Stop talking about the situation. You're not helping yourself at all. I did beat my head against the wall at that point a little.

You're digging yourself deeper and deeper in the bullshit. Emily tells her this. And listen, I don't care, people. Listen, I feel like this. At this point, all bets are fucking off. So when Emily tells Tamara this, Tamara's like, oh, really? Well, let's ask her if her daughter Brianna is speaking to her right now.

Uh-huh. Kind of like, oh, okay, well. And you know what I noticed also? Because I had that same thought, Carlos. Tamara didn't bring it up in front of Vicky to make it a bigger scene. That slipped out of her mouth because she was mad. In that moment, you could tell I could read Tamara just as clear as day.

And then when she got in front of Vicky, she didn't go, you know, she didn't start going off on Vicky and saying, oh, but what about Brianna and your two kids aren't talking and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, you know, which she did say behind the, you know, on camera, behind her back.

But she didn't make it a bigger scene than it needed to be.

She kind of, I think she probably felt like I don't want to go there with her right now. I feel bad because I don't want to do the same thing to her that she's doing to me right now.

So Tamara's growing up a little bit, right? We've still seen that this season.

No, she, no, listen, you can tell that Tamara is trying to have some restraint.

Oh, you can read it so much.

It's almost like she's almost twitching. She's trying to restrain us.

Don't say it, Tamara.

Keep it up.

Don't.

Camera.

It's coming.

No, no, no, no.

She did a great job.

No, she did. It was.

And this is why even Tamara said this. Um, you can't live in glass houses and throw stones, right? What we, what we do know based on the season earlier was the fact that Michael, Vicky's son and Vicky's daughter, they haven't seen each other in years.

And listen, you and I had to talk about it.

Um, Vicky responded to our commentary about it on her podcast with Christian.

Oh, Oh, do share.

I don't know this.

Okay.

I mean, yes.

She... Well, look.

What?

It wasn't bad.

It wasn't bad. It was very Vicky. It was very Vicky. Okay.

What did she say?

She didn't say our names, by the way.

Oh, she just said on a podcast?

Yes.

So... But. And, and, and, she didn't say anything mean. I want to be clear, right?

That's why we didn't talk about it, because it was very Vicky what she said.

And I'm going to paraphrase it. When I find it, I'll text it to you. Okay. So, she's like, ugh. So, she's like, ugh. I saw a podcast where they talked about it, and look, not true. Stop with your theories. Leave it alone.

Well, I mean, let's be fair, Carlos. We do theorize a lot on this podcast, okay?

We all do.

And say, I know everything and you know everything.

We are simply podcasting or theorizing and it's fun as heck, okay?

Leave us alone, people.

We want to theorize. Don't tune in then. It's all good.

I wasn't tripping off of it. I acknowledged that. I said a theory.

And in your defense, it was my theory.

My theory, I said what I said.

I'm not going to repeat it. because I want to respect Vicky's boundaries. I said my theory to Alexis. Vicky responded and said, stop with your theories.

Not true. And leave. And she said, they're fine.

Okay.

All good. I washed my hands with it, right? Because remember, I read a Facebook post of what Michael said. But hey, it's all good. So theory, sure.

Michael's own Facebook message update.

Whatever. Tomato, tomato. Theories, facts, receipts, hypothesis. I don't fucking know.

I like that you're respecting though.

I'm respecting it. She said stop. And guess what I'm going to do?

Stop.

Because that to me isn't a storyline. And with all due respect, I can stop talking about it. Now, what I'm not going to stop talking about Is now they're faced with each other, right?

Tamara. Did you see Tamara's face, Alexis? While all the girls are.

Like.

And she's like.

And the funny thing is, Carlos, her head never moved. She sat back. She was like, she had her arms crossed and she was just no, no, she didn't.

She had her arms down. If I'm remembering correctly, I could just read.

She was seething.

And I could just read.

She's like.

She won't even blink.

She's so mad.

She's just deadlocked on like, you know, it was her having the twitch, but it was an internal twitch because she's like, it's about to bubble over. And I'm about to I'm just about to start screaming and throw a napkin in someone's face again or whine in someone.

And then she says it. And I was like, oh, here it goes.

Here it goes.

Here it goes. Tamara has collected.

I do miss napkin throwing, Tamara. Okay, that's what it's been.

You miss napkin throwing, wine throwing, slapping, and whatever, Tamara?

Not the slapping.

I don't know if she ever slapped anyone.

I don't think she slapped.

I don't think she slapped. I take that back.

Okay, okay, she never slapped.

She did throw a napkin, and she did throw some wine. So she's a thrower.

Okay, and out of those two, I miss napkin throwing. OK, because, you know, OK, fine.

Whatever.

I digress. Now, she is seething and she's wearing red because she's red hot. She's boiling.

Looks hot as heck, too. Looks hot and it's boiling.

Hot water boiling.

See, I don't want to say that because I don't want to seem biased. Not that you're seeing bias. She looks so fucking hot.

I was like, Tamra looks good.

She flew her glam out there, okay? So her glam was there helping her, which is good. She looked good. She looked good.

Yes.

Good job, everybody.

Jamie, let's call this episode Hot Tamra. Wait, is that a Hot Tamali? Hot Tamra Ali? I don't know, Jamie. Figure it out.

Okay.

Hot Tamali.

Hot Tamra Ali. Tamra Ali. Ollie.

Okay. Hot Tam Raleigh. Okay.

There we go.

No, they won't get that. Hot Tam Raleigh.

No. Hot Tam Raleigh.

Okay. Okay. We'll go with yours.

We'll see if it works. Okay. Now, she shuts it down, Alexis.

And she's like, I just find it quite interesting how we're not addressing the, we're not talking about me.

But you know what? She doesn't even say it with like, she's, she's so boiling over inside and she's trying to stay so restrained that she says it even so like almost it's eerily calm. She's like, are we just going to avoid the topic of the elephant in the room? Like she's not like your normal Tamara where she's like, Hey, I'm not doing this.

You know, that kind of thing.

It's more like, you know, She is just, I'm sitting there, I'm almost shivering for Vicky when I'm watching this part of the scene.

Because you know it's coming, you know it's coming, you know it's coming.

So the ladies are sort of like, okay. She's like, I need to talk about this. And she pretty much says that you did not apologize. And Vicky said, I apologize. I said I was sorry.

Um, I'll do it again.

And Vicky said, you never apologized to me. And Tamara said, tell me one thing I said very calmly. Tell me one thing I said that you want to apologize for and I'll do it. She goes, okay, well, you said that I was in on the scam, the cancer scam with Brooks. Tamara being the fucking Britannical encyclopedia, pamphlet, all those things, honey.

Thesaurus, all of it. Immediately. Jeopardy. Jeopardy. Immediately.

Trivial Pursuit.

Like any of those games where you actually have a brain to play, you know, all the ones that.

In the new york times okay so immediately she says well shannon said it too.

I'm like wait because alexa.

This happened like 10 years ago so of course i'm like alexa's like wait did she But the beautiful producers flashed back to it.

I remembered it.

Okay, let me tell you something.

I was on the couch at the reunion when it was Vicky and I. Vicky and I were besties. Well, on the cast at that moment, you know what I'm saying?

We were the tightest.

Where Jim and I, I was still married.

To Jim at the time. Jim and I believed.

Brooks and we were defending Vicky and Brooks at this point because Vicky even believed it. And I don't think that she was in on a scam. I still to this day will always think that Vicky didn't know because we were taking Brooks soup when he was vomiting and not healthy.

So that is how much he had us in on the game too.

So, so. I do remember when Tamara was calling her out on that reunion couch saying that Vicky knew the whole time about the scandal. And I just defended Vicky. And I was like, Tamara, she didn't know. Because in my mind, I was living through some.

Of that with them. So I don't know.

I still don't know to this day if I believe Vicky knew. I don't think she did. So I don't know who all does think she did. But I'm telling you, Brooks had us fooled.

Yeah. No, listen. And that's iconic insight based on that.

And based on this scene, because it did happen.

Yeah.

Did, did claim that, or, you know, throw that. So here's the thing, Carlos. I mean, they're both pretty bad. So that's what I don't like is when somebody says, oh, you were so bad to me, but they don't remember how bad they were also, you know, like everybody needs to say, we kind of are shitty to each other sometimes on this cast. Like sometimes we are, and it's a good TV show, but, but sometimes we do just, you know, and that's what I think the women are wanting from Vicky is just to own it. That, yeah, she's been shitty sometimes. Like Jen said, you've been shitty and, and you just need to own your shit and then we can all move on. So I kind of feel that though. And I don't know at that moment, Tamara's right.

Vicky did say, or, you know, Vicky's right. Tamara did say that about Vicky. Now is the daughter one worse?

Yeah.

Cause it's your kid.

I'm going to.

Ask you that as a mother and as somebody who was there, because again, I can only tell you from my POV, I think what Vicky did is worse. And I'm going to tell you why. Yes, I think your kids is off limits, but also Vicky said that on her podcast while her and Tamra were not on the show together. And they weren't in a good place. And it wasn't a part of the storyline, right? And I think in Tamra's... This is my opinion. In Tamra's defense, Brooks and the cancer story was on the show. They were on the show together. It was a part of the storyline. And she said it to her face. I think you're part of the scam. And she has every right to defend herself.

And she did.

But I think to go on your platform, you guys aren't filming. And to bring up her daughter... And that, listen, to intimate that shows fame over your child, that's.

Well, when you put it that way, and I hadn't thought about it like that, but you're right. It's kind of one of those things where what is brought up on the show is fair game, you know? And we all do have, every reality person has... their life, that there's some things that people don't know, like, you know, like things that are going on even in my life right now, or like things that are going on in Tamara's life that aren't shown on camera are kind of like, yeah, don't bring it up. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a whole nother layer to this onion that you're saying, which is true. So yeah, I would definitely think that what Vicki did is worse than what Tamara did, but equally, but here's the deal. Bad is bad and they're both bad. And so they both do need to realize, okay, look, we have, And maybe you're right. Maybe their friendship is only going to be surface level because they're reality stars.

It is really hard. You know, I think I don't think Tamara and I would be as authentically close and as good friends as we are right now if I was still on the cast, because it does it changes dynamic.

Yeah.

And that's why for me, like, here's the deal. I agree with you. When you're on the show, all things for a game. You know, let's not forget that Vicky was a part of spreading rumors that Tamara's husband, Eddie, was gay.

Right?

Like, that was something that happened after.

The cancer scam comment.

Which, as a viewer, I looked at it as that's Vicky's payback to Tamara.

You know what I mean? Like, you were talking about my man and rumors. I'm going to talk about your man and rumors. You know what I mean?

And I think, as a viewer, that's fair. Because Tamara was able to know about it and defend herself and her husband. But to go and talk about the kid on your podcast, don't beat somebody up while they're down.

You know what I mean?

And I think that's what Tamara's trying to say. So even when she's trying to talk about it, Vicky leaves. She's yelling at production, I don't want to do this. You guys have ruined my vacation. You ruined this trip. I don't want to have this conversation. And Tamara just sitting there like, let's talk about it. Because I do feel like Tamara wants to address it and move on from it.

And Becky doesn't want to. She wants to, in the words of Sutton, let the mouse go. Okay? Okay?

But, okay, this is again where I'm not trying to defend anyone. I'm just trying to be objective and give.

Other people perspective. No, that's why you're perfect for this. Go ahead. Yeah.

I also, in that scene, read that Vicky's like, okay, first of all, let's be real. There is no vacation when you're going to film a girl's trip.

It ain't a vacation.

So no one, it's not a vacation. It is, you are there to work. And unfortunately you got to clock in for 10 or 12 hours a day and you clock out and.

Then you go home.

And you do get the experience.

Hold on though. You do want to go to Japan, right?

On Bravo's budget because you want to experience all those things that you wouldn't really even know how to even, they, they have such good teamwork teams to source all that out and figure that out. You wouldn't even be able to find half that unless you had a travel agent or someone tucked in your butt. So, so they do get a little vacation, but a lot of it's work.

But the other part I read to that scene is that, Vicky is again, like, guys, it's always, you guys are picking me apart for everything. There's always, it's, I feel like everyone thinks Heather got a lot, you know, this season. I just feel like Vicky got a lot. They were on her about a lot of stuff. And I think she was just kind of like, again, overwhelmed and like, I'm done. Like, why does it always have to be on me? Why am I always the one that's getting somebody scrutinizing and, you know, pointing fingers at me? And I, Because then when she went back in, after Shannon talked some sense into her, she went back in.

Good job, by the way, on that.

I will say this. I will say this, though. Because I took it props where props is due.

Uh-huh. I thought Shannon did a.

Great job this episode navigating the friendships between Tamara and Vicky.

I agree. I agree.

I agree.

Completely agree.

And I thought what she said to Vicky outside was very wise, a wise way to tell her.

To put your big girl pants on and go back in there and hash it out.

Because at the end of the day, they need to get it completely hashed out so we can move on in storyline.

Like, we need to get this done and move on.

Because we need to.

Get over this fight really fast, too.

You know?

So let's just.

Get it over with. And, yeah. I agree. Good job.

So.

Well, not to change the subject, because I want to get back to this, but I meant to ask you this earlier.

It slipped my mind. Sorry, Shannon. I gave you a compliment, and so did Alexis, but I got to bring this up. How did you feel when.

Going backwards only for five minutes, Alexis.

I'm going to go backwards for five minutes.

When Shannon said it bothered her when you appeared on Vicky's podcast and she did not get a heads up from Vicky.

Uh, It's, again, a fuck off, Shannon, because you don't own anybody.

And it's like, just fuck off.

And quit telling me to use your name and just stop bringing me up.

Just stop.

I'm not getting paid a dime. And you get to use my footage and all of my charisma. You could use my charisma for your scene. Hello. But anyway, no, to be honest, I think it's ridiculous. Yes. Like I am not calling people all day long and asking them if I can name them in my.

Podcast or are you okay with this?

Are you okay with that? This is all high school stuff. It's juvenile. It's like, just like, oh, I can't go to someone's wedding because, oh, I can't be friends with two people. Yes, you can.

Yes, you can.

Idiots.

So it's like, it's like, it's like, I just don't like the whole. thing about like, because I really don't care who's friends with Shannon. I'm still going to be friends with you if I like you.

Tamara, I love you. Be friends with her.

I don't care.

Vicki, I love you.

Be friends with her.

Jim, be friends with her.

I don't care. I don't put a friendship that you have with someone else in the line of what I have to run through in a day.

That would get so exhausting to think about who I have to check in with. Oh, someone just texted me. Should I ask them?

Oh, oh, you know, back when I was in the middle with Tamara and Jen, that is the perfect example of I did not want to be in the middle of anything.

I just said, don't bring her name up to me, to Tamara.

Bring up Jen.

Jen, don't bring up Tamara.

I love you both.

I can keep both friendships separate.

That's it.

And that's what I feel like people should do. So in that case of what you're asking, that's what I feel. Like Vicky didn't owe too much Two nickels to anyone to say who's coming on our podcast. She's got a job to do. She's a podcaster.

You make money. You got to do your work.

By the way, we had so much fun on that podcast. And I squashed beef that I had. Vicki and I had gotten into it, you know, before that podcast. We'd gotten into it on season 18.

I forgot about that. You're right.

From the minute I walked in that podcast, we hugged each other and it's like, we're grown up, grown ass woman here.

Let's move on and do a podcast. And we squashed the beef.

If y'all want to go back and listen to that episode, I was weeks away from my wedding and Vicki and I squashed the beef on that podcast about all the crap she'd said about John.

Before because when she said, I like John, I go, oh, do you really?

And I go, let's go down the list here, Vicki, of what you've said about my husband in a couple of weeks. And so I go down the list and she's just like, oh God. And she did the exact typical Vicki. Oh gosh, Lex, that was so long ago. No, I'm fine with John. I know he's a good guy. I like him.

I'm like.

Yeah, it's like, but you said these things and.

yes so i am i.

Am the rolodex also and i brought out all the receipts of what she had said and then she's like oh i did say that dang okay but okay we're moving on i don't i don't feel that way and i'm like okay vicky.

You're like but vicky we gotta talk about it and that's why and then she goes do.

You and then she goes do you have an invitation for me to your wedding over there in that.

Bag was she at your wedding No, I didn't.

It was two weeks before.

I would have invited her if that podcast happened two months before, but the wedding was two weeks away. It was like, no, sorry.

I believe that. I believe that. I believe that.

So as Vicky goes back in, like you said, Shannon tells her to go back in.

She does it.

And the funny thing is you could tell she didn't want to talk about it because she would not sit down. She kept pacing, walking around. And Tam was like, Vicky, sit and let's talk about this. I just don't want to deal with this shit. Like I just, I do not want to deal with it. And I loved, loved seeing Tamara get up and hug her.

Well, that's kind of what Vicky needed to do when Tamara was down and about, you know, in the, when they were in their kimonos, that's what Vicky needed to walk over. Like you said, and, and, and kneel down and embrace Tamara and say, look, let's put everything aside. Because in that moment, Tamara did put everything aside because she could tell that Vicky was trying.

To hold back tears.

And it was an authentic moment, you know, because you can tell when someone's fake crying or trying to create a scene and you can tell when it's a raw emotion that's just coming up. And I think she could read that Vicky was like it was bubbling. She was going to start bawling. And, you know, he probably went back to her room and cried. Not going to lie, because there's times you go back to your room after you're filming and you just have this letdown of emotion and you just you just cry.

Yeah. One last thing, though, that I know will be brought about the reunion.

Even after all of that, in the confessional, Vicky doubles down again and saying, I know why Sidney isn't talking to her because Tamara can have a flippant mouth. And as we know with confessionals, that tapes weeks after the scene.

And I was just like, ugh.

You know, like the moment, like, right, right, right.

Like Alexis, right? Like the moment. Well, hey, hey, screw you.

Okay, got you twice.

You don't get to just hit me like that.

Okay, let's do it. Raindrops, that's why you have to go to my YouTube to watch this hysterical. Okay. We're like literally putting each other in the face via the Zoom.

I'm just like, the moment I'm like, it's so sweet to see this, to hear that comment. I'm just like, okay, this is not going to end well for them. Before I let you go, I do want to ask you this. Do you have any insight for the raindrops on the current state of Tamara and Vicky's friendship today?

Well, I mean, I talked to them both a lot, but I haven't specifically asked that question. So let me just preface it with that. And I don't share everything on the pod. If there's something my friends have said not to, I just want them to still feel safe with knowing that I'm, I am still a vault, but I, I think it's about the same, to be honest. I, I, I don't, I think it's, Right now, I think it's just kind of more of a TV friendship, you know, because I always say you put it in a box.

It's either a TV friendship or it's a real friendship.

You have you can.

Still have a real friendship with TV moments, but there's a definite line with someone being your true friend that you call.

Up and you share.

Oh, my God.

John and I, you should hear this. I just pissed him off and he's not, you know, like in your moment or. the friend that you're just kind of like, okay, well we're filming. Okay. Love you.

Yeah. Love you too.

Okay.

Bye.

You know?

So I think that they're more at this, if, and I could be wrong and I could get a text from him in an hour. I don't know, but I think they're more of just at the kind of they've had, but here's the problem, Carlos, they've had a 20 year span of memories where they have been true best friends, where they have had falling outs, where they have had gone through a lot of emotions together. So you can't just like chuck that away. So let me say, I'll say it this way. I think if there was no TV show, okay, and let's just say Housewives doesn't have a season 21, there's no more, they're going to pause it or they're going to be done with Housewives of Orange County forever. I think Vicki and Tamara would have

a legit friendship. While the show is airing or having a show, I don't, I mean, maybe not a friendship like where Tam and I talk all the time.

Maybe not like that.

Maybe like once a month, they might meet every once every couple months, they might meet up. They just have too much of a history to not, continue some type of a friendship but i do think the show is getting in the way and i do think that as long as the show is airing they are going to be friends surfacy friends what do you think.

I think they had two years of not being on the show together and they still weren't friends.

For two years the show was off here's the problem I agree with you. And see, you bring light to a lot of situations for me and a lot of light bulbs for me because you have such a different take on things.

And I love that. That's why I love podcasting with you.

You said this time, just a couple minutes ago, you said Vicky was bitter because she had been fired and Tamara was back on. I think that played a lot into it. And then they both had hurt each other. And so for that two years, I think they were having a head-butting because you know, Vicky was team Shannon at that moment and Tamara was going for Shannon. You know, Vicky was mad at me at first for dating John and, and, and we got past that. But so there was so much happening in that two years that created some kind of a, like a wedge between them. But now it's all kind of aired out and dirty laundry. So I feel like it would be different. You know, I don't think that.

That's true.

I think it would be, I think it would be different.

That's true. Actually, that's, that's true. That's true. That's true. Because again, they were both, um, not in the best place at that time.

There's the Shannon of it all. Everyone was kind of, don't forget this though. Don't forget this part. Those three were the trace amigos, amigas, and Tamara had quit. So, so keep in mind, Shannon and Vicky were tight at that moment. Cause they were still trying to do the dose amigos and do this and that. And, and then for Tamara to come and attack Shannon and be like, but she's a drunk and she's done this. And now she hit a house and she's got to watch her drinking and all this brought me coming out all the while Vicky's trying to do a show with Shannon. I mean, this is just a thought that's going on. I could be- Yeah.

Their podcast. I mean, not their podcast, their tour. Yes.

And then also just like, you know, Vicky was sticking up for Shannon and Tamara wasn't listening to Vicky when Vicky's like, just.

Lay off of her a little bit.

So I don't know. There was just so much dirt muddying the water at that moment that now it's all kind of done and everyone's in decent places and everybody's kind of moved on.

I think if the show ended tomorrow, they would have a friendly relationship. Not best friends.

And I hope so.

And that would be my hope for them to at least be at a place to where they can reflect on their memories and be cordial to each other. Shall they see each other or reflect on moments like, oh my gosh, this moment happened and I'm texting her about it or whatever. I'm having a birthday party. I would like for you to come. So I do agree with that.

But like Alexis said, great episode. Oh yeah. I mean, it.

Wasn't a dull moment for me.

The costumes.

First of all, we didn't talk about the head slapping comical moment in the car comic relief. Thank you for that. Cause I love the one where you just start, you laugh out loud. And then their costumes when they went around with the pink skirts and the purple hair or all the different costumes.

It was like, okay.

You know, Housewives of Orange County loves a costume party. I mean, let's just give them that. I mean, how many dress up times did they.

Have this season so far?

It's already been like four or five and we're not even done. Oh my God.

It's really good. No, it was a really good episode. Shout out to everyone.

But Alexa and I will be back next week to recap another episode.

My beautiful girl, have a great weekend.

Thank you.

Give my best to John as well. Bye.

Bye-bye, baby.

Reality with the King is executive produced by me, Carlos King, produced by Jamie Schaefer in partnership.

With the Black Effect Podcast Network.

You can also find us at our YouTube channel at thecarlosking underscore.

I'm also dropping tons.

Of exclusive episodes on Patreon, which you don't want to miss.

Make sure to subscribe to that, too.

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