RHOBH SHAKEUP: LEAH REMINI with Kate Casey

Reality with the King is hosted by me, Carlos King. I'm an executive producer who have produced some of your favorite shows from the Real Housewives of Atlanta, New Jersey, and my own creation, the Love.

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Every episode, we recap reality television from the Real Housewives franchise to The Bachelor or Selling Sunset in addition to celebrity guests, whether in the unscripted space or scripted as well.

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Hey, Raindrops, on today's episode of Reality for the King, your favorite duo is back together, KKC and Carlos King.

Hey, my beautiful Kate.

Good to see you. You look very fit and trim, like you just walked out of an Abercrombie ad. Are you doing modeling gigs now? What's going on?

Listen, I am campaigning to be a Skims model, okay?

Like, hook me up.

I know. You would be good. By the way, a side note. Listen, do you notice that that's something that's so... That's like a Carlos colloquialism. Listen. Like, you should get merch with hats that just say, listen. It's like one of your little picadillos. Have you ever noticed that?

No, I haven't. It's funny because people do say to me, I have a couple of them.

Listen is one of them. But I feel like you gave me one more, maybe sometime last year. You know what you said?

You said, Carlos, when you talk, sometimes when you end your sentence, you end with this inflection.

Like, it's a... You go up. Yeah.

You go up. You know who does that? Germans. Talk to anybody from Germany and they always like, end up. Cut. End up.

So, yes, I do know I have that, but I don't listen is one of my favorite things.

And you're one of my favorite people.

And this is going to be one of my favorite episodes because I have been inundated with the raindrops commenting me, messaging me, saying, when are we going to get your thoughts on Leah Remini joining the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills?

And I was like, I'm going to do it.

I've been kind of crazy busy, but I said there's no other person that I want to have this conversation with in Cape Casey because we have to talk about the fact that this former Scientologist and all of the great things that Cape Casey talks about, which by the way, before we get into that, kudos to your episode, the.

Woman, I'm having a brain fart. But you did an episode last week, I think it was.

The last week or two weeks ago, breaking down Meghan Markle going back.

To the UK with a journalist.

You would like her. You should collab with her. Yes.

Hey, I'm like walking down the street, getting my on, you know.

And I enjoy that episode so much of your breakdown with Meghan Markle, the decision of going back to UK.

What does that mean?

And all of, to me, Kate, what makes your podcast so special that I always tell people is you go deeper in terms of the psychology of the reality star and this social experiment in which their subculture of the show is based around, whether it's Mormon Wives, the UK with Meghan Markle and the palace, or the Real Housewives. So, Leah Remini, Kings of Queens actress, JLo's best friend.

Yeah.

Former Scientologist is joining a show that has the women of Kyle Richards, Sutton Strack, Bozomo, St.

John.

Now we have Dorit Kemsley, Erika Jayne, in addition to Million Dollar Listing star Tracy Tudor.

I need to know your thoughts on.

This sort of world that we're not going to embark on.

Well, I always think someone's origin story is most important to consider. Leah Remini comes from a great family. Super funny. They've had TV shows. You will be endlessly entertained by them. Her mother got pulled into the Church of Scientology. And Leah was raised with her sister sisters because her mom remarried from a very young age. And that is the reason she's claimed for some of her early success in the entertainment industry. And I think that people who have been in that program have also said that because it teaches you to almost be fearless. So in the audition process, while when so many people get a little bit of rejection and they're like, forget it, I'm out of here.

they almost look at it as fuel. And so I think she probably got a lot of roles because she was fearless in her pursuit. The problem with Scientology, as we now know, and Lord knows I pretty much have a PhD in it now because I've been studying it for so many years, is that it's totally controlling of your life. So while people would say, I can be a Scientologist but also have another religion, It's not really true because it's all-encompassing. You can't really just be a working person and then be a Scientologist. Scientology creeps into every facet of your life. You have to take a ton of courses, and it's structured in a way that the courses really never end. So you have to keep going up these levels, and then when you get to

the top level, you realize you don't really know anything. You have to go back to the bottom level, and you have to buy all of these books. materials you have to give everything of your life to them and in the process there are people who were part of that organization that were ensuring that you are giving so much of your personal information so that you feel sort of trapped by it that your secrets will be really will be released now we know from other cults that what would seem like not a big secret to one person maybe to another person. So, you know, maybe you've struggled with like alcohol or maybe you have a relative that's something that they almost use that over you. They almost shackle you because they make you live in fear

that the little thing about you is so embarrassing and that if you are not completely loyal to them, that it will be released. So these are the conditions in which she grew up. Also, they kind of tell you schools are relevant at one point. Like you just need to study Scientology, but okay, you're studying the Scientology manuals.

You're not really learning the same things that kids in a school environment are learning. So then you have this insecurity, like how am I going to fit in socially? How am I going to get a regular job when I do not have a pedigree? And Leah, I'm sure we'll talk about on the show how she's actually gone back to school, which is a huge feat because you're sort of taught for so long, Schools are irrelevant. And then you're like, oh, my God, I have so much to learn because I've been brainwashed into thinking that it wasn't necessary.

So she grows up in this environment and it becomes your entire social circle. So there's another fear. If you leave it, you're cutting yourself off from your entire social world. And in her case, it's also members of her family. So when she left the Church of Scientology, it was a huge deal because she members of her family left with her. And also, the way that L. Ron Hubbard structured it when he began the Church of Scientology, and I use that word church with air quotes, because it really isn't a church. He wanted to use celebrities. And now we see this in every single cult doc that I've ever covered. We now know because of our modern ecosystem with influencers that if you have somebody who has

a big platform, they can be enormously influenced. They can be an enormous influence. So he wanted celebrities to be part of the organization. And then when the new leader took over, he sort of ramped it up. So that was why they probably grew so much, I would say, during maybe like a decade or or two because of the Tom Cruise's and the John Travolta's because they're putting a face to this organization and people are sort of a Lord into it, slurred into it. So when she leaves, she had just gone to Tom Cruise's wedding and she created problems internally because the leader of the church, his wife had disappeared and no one was allowed to ask what happened to her. Her Still to this day, no one knows any idea where she is. But internally, you

can't ask because there are consequences. There are labor consequences. You have to do certain things. They make your life really difficult. So she goes to this wedding, the wedding of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, and she says something in passing like, where's Shelly? And the organization is structured so that everybody snitches on you. Everybody snitches. So... they reports get back to headquarters. Lee is asking about the leader's wife, which is a big no, no. And then they were like, we're out to destroy you and make your life difficult. And that was sort of like the straw that broke the camel's back. There were a number of things, but that was like, I can't take this anymore.

So it was a huge deal that she left. And then she writes this book. And the book is like a New York times bestseller right away because she As you can imagine, everybody's finding this organization is so mysterious. And also, if you remember, Tom Cruise marries Katie Holmes, and their relationship is so bizarre. It was actually just when I moved to L.A. that they got married, and I used to pray that I would meet her at the coffee bean and be able to save her. Just take her back to my apartment and get all the information and save her. Eventually, we know now that she leaves him, and it seemed like it was in the middle of the night. Now, if people that are listening go back in history, you will be enormously amused when

you look at pictures of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes when they lived in New York City running because he would insist they wore monochromatic outfits and they held hands while they ran. I mean, the most bizarre behavior. So everybody was sort of mystified by that relationship already. And then you see celebrities like Leah and Jenna Elfman and John Travolta. And then because Leah was so such good friends with Jennifer Lopez and Mark Anthony, that they go with her to the wedding. Now, do they have a relationship with Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes? Probably not. But as we know with these celebrities, Meghan Markle too, like there's a wedding, let's invite as many people because that gets us more attention. And then it shows like that

we're this high powered couple. It gives us currency. So it was a big slap in the face to the organization when she leaves, then she writes this book. So she goes on to create this series on A & E that goes behind the scenes of the church and interviews people who had left. And her co-host was Mike Rinder.

Mike Rinder had been one of the top, basically, top lieutenants in the church, and then he had left as well. So two of the biggest headaches for this organization are super public, and they did what everyone thought was unthinkable at the time, was convinced a network to partner with them to bring these stories, because everyone was sort of frightened about doing or saying anything that would go against them.

So it becomes a huge hit. They get Emmy nominations and Leah and Mike become so close. And you can only imagine why that would happen because so few people would understand the kind of life experiences that they both had. So Mike passed away from cancer. And I have to say, he was one of the nicest people ever. I interviewed him.

He has a great book that you can go back and read and was generous beyond measure. I mean, if I needed a guest, even if I had Nothing to do with his line of business. He would go out of his way to help me. Wonderful person. So the loss of Mike has been a huge loss for Leah. But when the announcement came out that she was joining the show, it reminded me of something that Mike said to me. Because I had asked, in doing this A & E show, I had also interviewed a producer who had said, when we sign on to the show, we... really had to all go off social media because we didn't want to be targeted because the people that had left the organization, former members, you know, they're, they're telling everybody we're having

people follow us or like our phones are getting bugged, all of this. So for, for a network to say, we don't care. This is a story we need to tell. It was a big deal. So I asked him, are you in fear now because you're being so open and going against them and being so public? And he said, that you're almost protected the more you are in public, which is not what you would imagine. So to me, I think a lot of people would think Leah Remini, maybe this is not her, maybe she watches reality shows, but it's a surprise to me that she would do this.

I have to think that she's mindful of what Mike said. It gives her even more power. And she has that kind of personality, I think, that... You know those... When we would go to a fair or a carnival, there's things that you punch and it pops back up? I think that's Leah Remini. And I think she's like, you think I'm down? You got the wrong girl. So I think that she would seek out an opportunity like this because of the platform that is. And she is going to...

She's going to be able to share her story with a whole new audience. And Lord knows, you know this too, the Bravo audience, if they love you, they are going to support you. And I think there's so much power in her telling her story. And I'm grateful because, you know, to me, I want these shows to show different experiences of women. And I don't want to hear about the bags you bought. I want to hear about your heartache and, and your, your triumphs and your tragedies and all of it.

And I just think this is an incredible story to tell. And I mean, just with that, the death of the pastor's wife documentary that you just saw.

Last week, it's huge. Crazy.

So many people reacting to leaving one's, um, religion or their church and how emotional it is and how scary it is. And I think she's going to connect with audiences in a huge way.

And to your point, though, I was trying to think about this, you know, based on what the producers said in terms of the more you're outspoken about this the Scientology, the more protected you are because there is more eyeballs put on you. And listen, worst case scenario, if they try to do something to you, allegedly, all.

Roads will lead back to that.

Particular organization if that's the case. So the thing with Leah Remini, which you and I both know, a lot of A-list Hollywood actresses and celebrities watch this show from Julia Roberts to Jennifer Lawrence. They've been very vocal about watching the show. So what's interesting is She is going to also, oh my gosh, I'm fascinated now. If I'm Julia Roberts, Kate, or Jennifer Lawrence, and I know about this other side of Hollywood, the fact that Leah Remini is going to be so bold to talk about the Hollywood world, not only we as the consumer is going to be intrigued, that audience of A-list celebrities is going to watch it and be like, That is the truth.

And that fascination is going to be hurt as well.

It's going to set their truth free.

Yes. That's genius.

It's really genius.

I was talking to a producer friend of mine and she said to me, Leah Remini being cast on Billy Hills, it does nothing but help the other franchises because that is a huge hit.

Do you agree with that sentiment? Because I actually do as well.

I would think And if you are somebody who watches Leah Remini on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, and she's explaining this entire life story, which is so compelling, and then you're going to go watch an episode of Real Housewives of Orange County. It's like two different planets, right? Right. I think it's going to make the other franchises realize that the audience is hungry for really compelling storytelling. And if you are not willing to crack yourself open and show us really what your life is about, we're going to move on. I think it's going to make other shows rise to the occasion. Like we really need to be finding people who are really, just really have compelling stories.

And, and, and being bold to speak about something that's controversial. Look, When it came to the previous couple of seasons of Beverly Hills, you and I are avid viewers of the show. I don't want to speak for you. I felt that the past couple of seasons have been hard to watch only because the missing element is what you said so eloquently, which is.

We care less about the price of the bag.

We care more about the price of fame or the price you're paying to be, you know, a housewife or like Sutton, you know, losing your last name, what that meant for you in the high society. And, you know, when Amanda Francis was on, and I couldn't wait to talk to you about this particularly because you and I have talked off camera about even her presence on the show.

Amanda Francis obviously was a a younger newbie that came in with a cult background, but it appeared that the ladies just did not open up to her. They didn't welcome her with open arms, and she only lasted for one season. TMZ reported she was not asked back.

To the show. but she was asked on the show about her background in being a cult. You now have.

Leah Remini, who sort of is giving that on a grand scale. Where do you think things went wrong for Amanda Francis that Bravo did not ask her back, but they got Leah Remini? To me, there's a parallel there that I don't think people are really touching.

Well, two things that jump out at me is that I think what you need for Real Housewives of Beverly Hills... is somebody who tells the story of the city, right? And you want somebody who has worked in the entertainment industry. Leah Remini has worked in the industry. She has connections with everybody. She's been on shows. She's been in movies.

Her friends are movie stars. Amanda Francis feels like somebody who came from the Midwest and was plopped onto a show. So she didn't really have the connections. That's a missing piece. And I think that the audience... If you talk about how, and it was sort of just like in passing, I was part of a cult, but then you have a business that seems to operate like a cult adjacent. I think viewers turn away from that. I actually thought she would have been better on Real Housewives of Orange County.

She really doesn't even live that far from me. I think that Orange County is more of a, and I say this living here, I'm an outsider who now lives here It's much more about everybody here wants to present this image that they are like a big-time baller, even if it's not true. In most cases, it's not true.

And they're in deep debt, but they want you to think they've got a Maserati and they've got a beach house in Malibu. I mean, that's just the way... And she sort of represents that to me, where you're telling me that you have all these things, but is it all just sort of surface? So I think... It was two things. I think she didn't really have the deep entertainment connections. It's just she's not really enhancing the story of the city, which is a company town. It's an industry town, right? And I think that people were sort of turned off by, I was in a cult, but now I'm operating a business which gives cult vibes.

Were you surprised she wasn't asked back on the show? No, not at all.

Uh-uh. I did not think she would be asked back. I didn't think she would be asked back after the first episode I saw.

Why? Tell me.

Well, I just didn't see any connection with the other women. I think that that's a problem maybe across all franchises too, is that she was younger than them and she's just of a different generation. And I think there are a lot of like communication gap, which one could say, well, that's kind of interesting to chase that story. But yeah, since she didn't have any connections, it didn't make sense.

Like let's say it was Billy Lord, who is the daughter of Carrie Fisher. And she's an actress. If she were on the show, that would be more of a compelling story because you know that she probably has a connection to Leah Remini and Kyle Richards. But just to take someone younger who has no friendship with them, has this like bizarre business that's hard to explain to people.

It just felt like stunt castings.

Yes. Yes. No, for sure. For sure. For sure.

And I think what was so interesting to me watching it was the women refused to even like embrace her or like even give her a chance. I think they all felt like you're not somebody that we want to be friends with.

You don't really represent us.

And they did not even try to pretend that she did.

And one other thing.

I have to say is that this is not a group of women who are grinders. they're women of the, they represent the city. They're women who like, well, my husband was a producer and I get to go to lunches and she's a grinder that there's like a despair, you know, there's a disparity there. She doesn't fit in.

Like she, she, she treated the show infomercial. She was like telling you about her books and with all of her like little hash, you know, hashtags and her, and her one-liners, and, you know, she's, like, selling you constantly to a bunch of women who are not grinders. Interesting.

With that being said, though, because you're onto something, to me, why didn't Rachel Zoe connect then?

Because I think Rachel Zoe's a grinder, or not.

But she's, like, she's... God bless, God bless. But, like, she has been working in that industry for so long. She has the connections... she's not going to embrace somebody who like rolls into town is like, I've got a manifesting business and you do, you need to give me the respect I deserve. It's like somebody who has like a startup and they walk into like a Forbes conference and walk up to like the CEO of like Goldman Sachs.

And they're like, you and me, we're on the same page, man.

They're like, no, we're not.

Yeah.

I mean, listen, touche, right? Touche.

Do you think, because one thing I know working in reality, especially when it comes to like a franchise as big as Real Housewives is, you know, there is this desire.

To go younger, right? Because you don't want to age out your demographic.

So like even when OC, you know, I can't believe it's been seven years, but seven years ago when they cast Emily and Gina, right?

The intention was we need.

Someone younger to balance the age gap of these other women. What I think is so interesting is the fact that they got rid of Amanda, who was by far the youngest, and then they cast two women, Leah Remini and Tracy Tudor, women in their 50s.

What does that say about.

Where Housewives of Beverly Hills, let's stick with them, where they're heading in terms of success?

Well, I think that they probably really look at, or I assume, it's interesting because it's the same producers, but I feel like the women of Beverly Hills, they sort of seem to be evolving together in a way that the OC women never do. They still feel like, women who despise one another who show up and clock in for work. I don't think they ever talk outside of, and their lives really haven't changed in like 20 years.

It's just like, so you're watching, you're like, okay, I want to watch women who have like fabulous lifestyles. I'm like, only maybe Heather has that. And she doesn't even live in orange County. Right. I want to see, okay. If they don't have fabulous lifestyles, maybe they're just old, old time friends who have the most fun together and have, first of all, they don't have any fun together and they're not really friends and none of them have any compelling stories to tell. Again, someone who left a cult versus, you know, Gina is like maybe going to get married.

I don't, by the way, I've never, I'd never see her kids and sure. You can argue with me. Is it necessary to see the kids? Well, but if you don't show me your spouse, your place that you work, any of your friends, I don't know anything that you do for like throughout your day. I absolutely, I like, I don't know anything about Gina. It's not that compelling. Yeah.

I'm with you. I'm with you.

I'm like, why don't you show me When she gets up, when the butler comes in and opens the shades and then is preparing her a hard-boiled egg, I want to know what she does. Does she get on an exercise bike? Does she walk around the block? I don't know anything about their lives. I know. Zero. Does Vicky have employees?

Do they hate her? What does she do with her boyfriend?

No.

It's like, you know what? OC is just feels like it's not even storytelling. It's like women going on trips. That's it.

And tripping and falling.

There's no storytelling.

I don't know.

Like if I get together with my friends, I'm like, what's new? What's going on? And it's like a litany of things. I hate my in-laws. I can't, I'm trying to get my kid into college. Oh, all the other baseball moms think that their kids, the next, you know, a rod, like they're stuck. Oh, everybody has stuff going on.

And how could you have a show about people that there's nothing going on? It's crazy.

No, listen, I could go on and on about that because I, you know me, one thing that you and I both love is personal story when it comes to these reality stars.

And that's why I am satisfied that.

The casting of Leah Remini alone really shows us that, yes, clearly what you and I have been preaching about for the past three seasons have been this urge of like, we need something that is going to show us something different that represents the city you live in. but also make us salivate at the personal story in which you're barking on. And that's been missing for quite some time.

And I think Leah is what the doctor ordered.

I think it's a great, great, great choice. What are your thoughts about Tracy Tudor? I'm not sure. We never talked about this. Were you an avid watcher of Million Dollar Listing?

I've definitely watched it. And I think what's interesting about her is that her father is this extremely successful real estate developer, extremely successful. Now she has the team.

People don't know that.

Oh, extremely successful, but more like commercial real estate. And she has said, okay, I went out on my own to become a residential real estate agent, two different worlds. And it's not like I was given all these opportunities. I think people would obviously have like one eyebrow raised as yours just did like, Well, how does that work when your father is like, I think he may be a billionaire.

Hey, Casey, shut the front door.

So that is like, I want to know, what is it like to grow up with that much privilege? And then your father's like, I don't know, you got to do this on your own. And then how do people treat you if you're in real estate and your dad is super successful and you're starting out your career? Does it help or hinder things? She was also married to a model who cheated on her. she's got two daughters who are at the best age that I think, because they're at the age where when you have little kids on shows, they're still, the mom's still telling them what to say, like early years of Teresa. And they think their mom is the greatest in the world. Teenagers and college age kids are the best because they're going to

roast the mom. So the mom's all about like, I want to present this image a la Vicki Gumbelson. And then, you know, Michael and Brianna are like, you're insane. That's stupid. Why would you do that? I think that dynamics always really funny. And she seems like somebody who would laugh at the things that her kids would say, which I really, which shows you to me, like she's a great mom.

So she's just been born into a world. When people watch Beverly Hills, they're like, I want to see bonkers money, unbelievable properties, jewelry, makeup, glamor. That is the world that Tracy Tudor was born into. That is her friend circle. but it does seem like she's like a girl who could go to Schenectady and like go to a local bar and have a great time. And that, that's why I find her really compelling. Yeah. She just, she seems like despite all that, she's like a fun girl's girl.

Oh, she, she's so fucking cool. Kate.

Yeah.

Um, right.

I think she's just, and it's funny because the reason why I'm gagging, I've, I've watched every single episode she's been on a million-dollar listing, and I had no idea about her backstory because on that particular show, it's less about your personal story. Yes, we saw her go through a divorce, and we saw her date the hot trainer, but that show is more about the transaction on the real estate, the negotiation of the deal, and, you know, the conflict with the three agents, especially if it... if it bleeds into their work, like that's what that show is about is less about like the legacy.

And I think when, when, when you.

Always talked about this too, which is so true, and I confirmed this to you, to you as a producer, the, the city in which you are a housewife, you have to represent that city. You, because our, our, our saying is always Kate, could this show.

Be in Idaho and we won't know the difference.

Yeah. Well, you've often said Salt Lake City at times could have been the Real Housewives of Scottsdale, and you would have been like, okay.

Nothing about that show, I love the show, but nothing about that show gives me Salt Lake City. If I'm wrong, it doesn't.

It just doesn't.

I think Real Housewives of New York should be a lot of women that have direct connection to the financial service world. Because to me, New York is like a financial service town. Atlanta, to me, is entertainment. Yes. We've got to tell the story like Chicago. I feel like that's like finance to sports to Miami is all about like fast living and you.

Don't know where the money actually comes from. Yeah.

Like fancy houses with, but, but like, is this clean money? Like what's happening? Like everyone is so rich in South beach, but then you go five minutes down the street and it's a total other, total other thing. Yeah, you got to tell the story of the city, like what makes that city so unique and who lives there and why are they like that?

Because when you think about Tracy, it's the idea of this is somebody similar to like a Kyle Richards, right? Obviously, Kyle is more entertainment based, but she comes from.

The world of her sister was a child star, right?

Her mother was, you know, before there was a Teresa Giudice, Big Kathy was, like, the stage mom who married well and taught her daughters, like, you all need to do the same thing if you want to be taken care.

Of in this life.

And that's what we saw. When it comes to Tracy, the idea of her father being this major commercial real estate, you know, entrepreneur who.

May be a billionaire.

and us having access to that town, I feel like it's going to be super intimidating to the likes of Dorit, which you and I know based on our research doing these podcast episodes, that there's already integration of these two women being at odds because Tracy's glam team told her that Dorit never paid them, and that became fodder on social media. So the fact that Tracy's coming in with a little bit of a you know, leg up.

She's not afraid and not afraid to say anything, but I think someone who may have not grown up in the city and already has all these connections would maybe be intimidated and not want to say something to read because they think she's got more leverage because she's been on the show longer. But that's the beauty of Beverly Hills.

It's like, who gives two shits about this show? I've lived here. I know people who are like, like run movie studios. You're a nobody. The classism thing on every show is my favorite.

It's the best.

It's a social experiment. What happens when you take a woman from great privilege who already knows everybody in Hollywood, let alone their secrets, and plops them into a show with their own sort of system, operating system? Tracy may be the new Kyle Richards of Kyle Richards wants to move to Nashville and like take a break for a year or maybe not even come back eventually. Like I think they, they got a really solid cast member with her because I think she really exemplifies that city and she's bold and funny and not afraid to tell her story and like just crack her life open. And I think those are all the things that, in the same way I think that Alexia is great in real housewives of Miami because yeah. Oh yeah. And it was like, yeah,

my ex-husband was like a cocaine dealer and went away. Like I love somebody. That's the beauty of making shows with women that are over 40 years old because they've had a life well lived and they get, and they get to a point where they're like, I don't worry so much about the people in my community and if I fit in. I'm over that shit. My kids are older.

I've been there, done that. Maybe I'm working on my second career. Or maybe my husband left me and I'm like, now I want to live the life that I have always wanted. They're at a place where they're much more confident about who they are. Now, then they go on the show, they become famous, and then all hell breaks loose.

But in terms of joining a show, I like somebody who's had a life well-lived.

Do you think Leah is going to bring J-Lo on the show?

I don't know if they have a great relationship right now.

No? Wait, did I miss something?

Yeah, I don't. I think the Ben Affleck of it all complicated their relationship. Because my understanding is that Leah is probably the kind of friend who's like, this guy's a bozo. And if you're really in love with someone and you want to make it work, maybe you have to take a pause. Because you don't want to hear the truth. Sometimes a friend's like, I'm just going to go hard and tell you what you need to hear.

And a lot of people are not willing to hear that. So I think, I think they're kind of maybe trying to find their way back to what it was, but, but again, very true to life. And you do, a lot of people have friendships that kind of ebb and flow because of the person they choose as their partner. If I were her, and I would go lean into that, talk about that, because the audience is going to love that. Like, yeah, it sucks. I hated the guy she married. What am I supposed to do? Lie about it? I don't want to hang out with him.

And you know they're going to talk about that because the thing is this. When I was watching... Did you watch.

J-Lo's documentary, The Making of the Greatest Luster in the World.

Which is my example of a bad documentary. When they are the executive producers of their own documentary, you know it's going to be a doozy. You know?

I'm pretty sure you and I would agree on this.

One of my favorite scenes, I'm going to say yours too, the Jane Fonda phone call.

Yes. Yes.

When Jane Fonda called JLo and said, I feel like you're trying to prove something to people, the photograph of you guys kissing. And Jayla got defensive and said, well, this is my real life. This is our real life. And looked at her team with a little bit of a, like, what is she talking about? And it was sort of like this wise woman is telling you this is a bad idea.

Months later, you guys are divorced.

I'm pretty sure to your point, Kate, Leah Remini also was probably like, This is insane. And that's the type of brutal honesty that Beverly Hills is going to need because, listen, we're kind of over the calendary thing.

We got it. We get it. It's done.

But to get real conversations, I think those two women, Kate, are going to have the likes of Erica Jane and Sutton really step it up. Like, they're going to need to start being... brutally honest about things because, listen, I'm a big fan of Erika Jaynes. I appreciated that she was able to tell her story of domestic violence last season.

But the elephant in the room was you were going through this, you know, at some time last year, the year.

Before, and no one knew about it. No one even knew you were dating. Look, the abuse is one thing, right?

Which we know, unfortunately, women... They are afraid, and I get that. So I'm not saying she should have told us when it was happening.

Duh.

But I think for all of us as the audience, no one even knew you were dating. So when the bomb dropped, while we appreciate and felt, and of course our heart felt for you, we also was left with, what is happening in your life that we're not getting?

I think she probably would have been better off taking a year or two off the show and then came back. She needed to like collect her thoughts, but I'm sure financially she was in a position where it was not a good idea for her to go off the show. I do have some empathy for Erica because if we go back in time, remember when they would film scenes in the Pasadena house and the way that he would talk to her and talk to the other women and he would have that gross like styrofoam cup, like he was an absolute loser.

He was. But you could tell.

There was a complete power disparity and she was terrified of him. So I think people were frustrated, too, after everything kind of happened. It's like, why are you supporting this guy? He was awful to you. And if it's true that he's put you into financial ruin, just be honest about it. But a couple years out, you have to wonder, is she still afraid of him and why?

I wish she would talk about that stuff, but she doesn't want to yet for whatever reason. And I think it would have been better... She went off the show for a little bit and then came back because I get the sense when she even opened up about the domestic violence situation, she was still in fear of how the audience would take it because she's so used to people pummeling her. I think that maybe Leah will be great because she's going to say, that guy was an asshole.

Tell your truth. And it may be the first person that maybe she feels like, this person has as much power or the kind of power I want to be around. And then she's going to feel the freedom to kind of express maybe what she wasn't free to do or didn't feel confident enough to do, you know, a couple of years ago. She just doesn't seem like when you're that kind of a force of nature and you're around a bunch of duds who like don't even talk, you're not going to feel compelled to open up, especially if you feel like, the audience is going to have a reaction because I'm perceived as like the villain on this show.

Who's like domineering. But if you have somebody else who comes on the show, who's domineering, it softens you a little bit.

True.

Maybe the audience would be more open to hearing about what actually happened in her marriage, which I have to believe was really difficult. That man was an SOB. I mean, the memory would, At that dinner, and he was just, like, so condescending to all of the women. I get a visceral reaction to those scenes in the same way I got a visceral reaction to, like, David Foster. I like the way he talked to David Foster. You did?

You didn't tell me this.

Yeah, like, he was a jerk to those women.

Tell me what scene particular.

It's no different than if, like, you have a bunch of girlfriends, and you go to someone's house for dinner, and the husband's kind of, like, an asshole to everybody. Like, you stupid wenches at my house, get out of here. You, like, have a reaction. And I felt like he was... Not very kind to Yolanda.

Yolanda.

Like when he was playing the piano and he was like, oh God, you broads don't sing. You know, he just seemed very dismissive of everybody. Now, maybe if I interviewed him, he would say, our marriage was in the shitter and I really didn't want to be on the show. I didn't feel great about my marriage. Then I would make sense.

But watching in that span of time, he looked like a jerk.

Wow.

Yeah. That's why I think it's important for everybody to kind of tell their story because you never really know the full truth until someone opens up. So like a lot of the stuff that happens with housewives or Southern tournament years later, that's why I love those interviews that you do. And I do where you check back with somebody years later. It's so much, it's so more informative because you see things that they weren't willing to be open about at the time because they're still living so deep in it. Erica has been still living through this process while still filming a show. And I just think you got to go off the show sometimes. Of course, again, I don't know what her financial situation is. Maybe that

she couldn't do that. But I mean, it's like if you go to work every single day for, you know, four months, you become an asshole because you need to go and spend a weekend, you know, at home and relax because you can't really see the forest through the trees. Yeah.

Yeah. Listen, I agree with you 100%.

And that's why the introduction of these two women, I think, is going to take Beverly Hills to unforeseen heights. And I would go as far as KS to say, Leah and Tracy have the opportunity to really be some of the force multipliers that this show needs.

100%.

There isn't, as much as Kyle is sort of the face of the show and the women respect her, there needs to be like this Lisa Rinna-esque force that, like you said, the one thing Lisa Rinna did not have, courtesy of maybe people looking at her as a soap opera actress, she did not have, to me, the respect or the pedigree where these women felt the need to like Not bow down to her, but, like, you know, listen.

I think Leah and Tracy are two women that have what it takes for.

These women to, like, get in line.

I know. It's going to be great. That ratings for the premiere is going to be high. Again, I think the other women, if you are in Real Housewives of whatever, you're going to watch that show and go, Now this is compelling TV. Like, what am I doing? The other thing I'll say about the two of them, they have been so successful in their careers. I'm less worried about them becoming absolute monsters because I feel like if you didn't really have a sense of identity and then you became like a Bravo star, that's when you become the monster. Well, that's why you had a whole identity beforehand. You can separate.

You're like, this is wonderful that all that this audience like is really gravitating to my story. And it's lovely that I've been invited to watch what happens live in Bravo con, but this is not career defining for me. And that's where I get worried about a lot of housewives is that I'm like, Oh God, now they've gone to the other side. We lost them. We lost them.

Okay. My last question for you. Yeah.

Leah Remini has joined. Which means anything is possible. I thought getting Eileen Davidson was the biggest get.

Right?

Leah has set the bar.

With that being said, hey Casey, is Meghan Markle going to join next?

Absolutely. Because I really believe that their marriage is just not going to be great. And I fear that there may be some sort of headache about this. kids because I just don't see them wanting to live in the same continent. So what do you do with that? That's what, but the only thing of that Harry and Megan story, the only thing that hasn't happened is like, she's told us like sold the book that I'm sure she's got like already 14 chapters written. Right. So, That's probably like her ace in the hole. Uh-huh. Well, you know, there, I mean, I think that it's widely been since we talked about it. I talked with Kinsey is that she had been shopping a book about like being on her own, like post-divorce.

Do you believe it?

Yes.

Okay, do you really think that they're going to be long and lasting?

They're just two different people. Absolutely not.

He's from some kind of aristocracy, and his father has someone clip his nails. That was his world. You're really going to move to Montecito and drive your kids to school every day and not have everybody go, oh my God, it's so incredible to meet you every day of your life? He's going to be like, let me get out of here.

Let me blow this taco stand. I'm going back to England where everyone's like freaking out when they meet me and they think I'm the greatest person ever. And her life, as we talked about, like it doesn't matter what you do when it comes to the aristocracy, they don't care you're self-made. They don't care you're from America. They don't care.

If you are not one of them, you will never be accepted. There's nothing that she can do that will ever accept her. Like ladies in London, it was so funny. I had someone come on and talk about why that show is so unique is that the Americans were trying so hard to, to like fit in. And at one point this American says, you know, we're all self-made and Mark and, um, the other one, I forget her name right now, but she said, what are you saying? We're not self-made like gross. Like they were repulsed by that.

Being self-made is embarrassing in England. Like what, what? So all the things that Megan holds, so like her value so much about herself, They don't really accept there. So they're never going to work out. And by the way, who would want that life to be a Royal? First of all, you have to wear pantyhose. No, you have like, you can't have colored nail polish. Like what color nail polish to wear. Also, you have to go to all these events and clap. If it's like, like some break dancers or like kids playing the flute or or people making muffins and you have to sit there and clap and act like you're interested. Like a reality star would not want to do that. You know what I mean?

Yes. So I think.

She'll be much happier in, in, in America and specifically in Beverly Hills, because that's probably like the thing that she cares most about in this world is probably like acting. I mean, American fame. So of course she's going to go back and, but what do they do about the kid situation? I think she's stuck there. Now, once the kids are in school there, how do you reverse course and get them to pack all their stuff up and then go back to America?

I don't envy her life.

I think, listen, I think she signed up for something she thought she could control, right?

Which is like, what were you thinking? Yeah.

And it's not what she thought it was.

And I think because when I listened to your episode, the moment that paused.

Me was when you guys were talking.

About the fact that what is life like now for Harry and how that impacts her and their marriage.

Like you said, the fact that he's waking up like, what the fuck did I get myself into? Do you know what I mean?

Uh-huh.

And the misery he must have in his marriage. And I think for her, the chasing of the moment has not been rewarding for her. And even, I think even now, there's still like this weird sort of like confirmation, non-confirmation of her joining the Netflix series season three of The Gentleman.

And... I don't think that was actually a real thing at all. I think the geniuses at the streamer were like, let's float this idea to get press for the show. And by the way, they're genius.

You know why they are? Can I tell you what I did? I started watching the show. See?

Because the characters that he writes, she would be like, I mean, it's probably loosely based on her. But yeah, now you're watching it.

Genius. Theo James is the hottest man on Netflix.

Listen, look, I was happy to watch, but it was on my radar and I said, let me.

Get into this before season two begins. And I started watching it. I'm like, oh, it's a good show. Kate, you're good.

So Raindrops, you heard it here first. If Meghan Markle First of all, you know what's so.

Funny, Kate?

It's not even out of the realm of possibilities for her to join Beverly Hills Housewives.

No.

Like, I can totally see her doing it.

Like, beyond. And also, she's, like, high school friends with David Foster's wife, Catherine. And, like, I could see them joining up. That's, okay, let's put that into the universe. I'm going to say three years from now, they join the show together.

Younger.

Mm-hmm.

The access of the world and having a different POV, I can watch episodes of what it's like to be married to David Foster and the massive age gap between him and Catherine McPhee, in addition to just the whole American Idol shit, you know, all that stuff. But then obviously with Meghan, not just the Harry shit, but the fact that somebody can say, what the.

Fuck were you thinking? Like, did you really think you were going to change?

I know. Yes.

It's fascinating to me.

You know what's also interesting about like crazy rich people and of course the Royals too, is that all of their assets are really just like, it's just property. They don't have like liquid assets. Like I have a friend who does celebrity weddings and mega, mega wealthy weddings. And he was saying that this one family, makeup family that you are very familiar with, within their family, because he did the wedding for one of them, they have to ask permission for everything. Like even just like spending money because everything is tied up in the properties. So it's like, like a trust and you have to ask for it.

That is what she thought she was going to marry into something that it is not. I think she was like, wait a minute, there's a lot of shackles going on here because I have to ask for X, Y, Z. Like I have been an independent, successful woman. And now I have to ask permission for a bunch of people who absolutely hate me. Like, I'm sorry, what? And then conversely, I think he was like swept up in the love story and he kind of like probably like likes to kind of do his own thing. And he's like an American actress. Like I'm in charge of my life and I can do what I want. And she is like everything I've ever wanted. And I think there were, there were probably people that were like, you know, the Leah

remedies of the world who were like, okay, I get the romance thing, but how are your lives actually going to work together? Because it seems like you guys are probably not going to be a great match in the long run, but you don't want to hear it when you're totally in love. You don't want to hear it. I also think his sense of self is so tied into his military experience.

Totally.

I think he did feel unmoored to be in America in like a very suburban area and And away from the British military, which is such a big part of his life. I mean, it would be like you moving to Luxembourg. And you're no longer around anybody who works in the television industry.

You're not watching shows.

You'd be like, what am I doing? What is happening? And if you are not happy with the place you're living, that just... it's a spider web effect to everything else in your life and every one of your, everybody around you.

Yes.

I say they split up. I predict three years. She's on Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and she's dating a billionaire. I think they split up and he marries again, some aristocrat, and then he can go and do all the aristocratic things that he has missed out on. If you grow up that way, you're going to be happy. Going to the local school for like, you know, back to school night with the teachers and all the parents were like, I went to Ohio State and I played water polo at UC Santa Barbara. He'd be like, where? I would love to have known the friend that he's calling. You know, he's like making the call from the car and he's like, what the fuck did I do?

That is not his brother he can call. Yeah.

Yeah he's like got someone back back in headquarters he's like you are not gonna believe this shit by the way that's if anybody needs a friend like that in their life please let that be me i love to be the person that gets the phone call from the car and you want to vent that's my chef's kiss i love it There's got to be somebody who's been like, I don't know what I'm doing. But again, the thing to watch, because they're going to split up, what happens with the kids?

Raindrops.

When you moved back to the country where the in-laws who hate you live?

It's going to be crazy.

No.

And you can tell he's an active father. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Well, rain drop.

It's fun when you have little kids. That's a bummer when you're not getting along with your spouse when your kids are little. By the way, my oldest is now a senior in high school. And I'm like, these people with little kids, they don't even know what's headed their way. When you're trying to get your kid into college, you're fighting about whether or not someone's going to take the birthday party at the skating rink. wait till you know what's up ahead oh listen before you go yeah i think that you have okay you want to watch something this weekend where you're.

Like yeah but tell him tell me.

Love is blind uk this season just ended season three okay it's actual love stories an american version it's we are peeing our pants we're punching the walls laughing we're like who are these lunatics and why did they ever think they would come together the people on Love is Island UK actually fell in love and they are amongst the hottest people that have walked the earth. When I'm telling you, your eyes are going to pop out of your head. They are, at least two of them look like they could be supermodels. Really? And I'm talking about the men specifically. You are not going to, it's such a great watch. And it's faster paced than the, but you know, you feel like the pods in the US version are like eight episodes. This one's a little bit faster.

That's the one to watch this weekend. Is there anything?

Okay, because Raindrop, she always gives us what to watch for the week on her podcast, Reality of Life with KKC. So KKC, let us know what we need to watch.

Love is Blind UK.

Binge the whole thing. You're going to love it. If you didn't watch Death of a Pastor's Wife, The Pastor's Wife. So good. But I got another one for you. Just came out two days ago. Two days ago on, no, yesterday on Hulu. Welcome to the Family, The Murder of Dan Markell. okay, this is up your alley. So picture it.

This couple, they're both attorneys. They get married. They have two sons. Her family is wackadoo. They're way too close. They they're in each other's business and her mom is like running her life. So they get a divorce. They're custody issues. He works as a law professor in Tallahassee, but the pair, her parents live in Miami, which is seven hours away. And they are trying to do everything to convince him to move to Miami area so they can be with the grandkids more. And he's not for it.

At one point, the mom and the brother say, we'll give you $ 1 million. If you just say, you know what, go ahead and move to South Ford and be near your parents. And of course the guy's like, no, I'm not going to do that. So what happens? The mom and the brother concoct a plan where they hire people to kill the guy.

Shut Kate.

So he comes home from the gym and, And dropping the kids off, pulls into his garage. Someone walks over to the car, shoots him in the head. Now the mom, the mother-in-law, so the girl's mother, calls the oldest brother who's like the Marilyn Munster of the family. You know, there's like always one normal person. He's the normal one.

And he lives up north. He's like, I want nothing to do with these crazy people. She calls him and she's like, well, Dan's dead. And he goes, what? What happened? Somebody walked over to the car and asked him, are you Dan Markell? And then they shot him and he goes, well, how would you know that? Think about it.

He's dead.

Someone walked over and said, are you Dan Markell? Like he's dead. How do you know that? So he's like, uh, and then he says, well, I've already been in touch with law enforcement. They've already called me. And she goes, well, you don't know anything anyway. He's then he never talked to his mother again. He ended up, testifying against her at the trial you think your family's insane watch this.

Documentary it's how many episodes is it.

To the family uh three perfect i think it's three yeah death of a pastor's wife's four this one's three and you're gonna get sucked into it and then so then after both those docs I interviewed the directors or the producers. So go back. Oh, and then also with the Dan Markell story, one of my listeners was like, Charlie Adelson, the brother who was involved in the murder, they go, oh, we knew him. He was in our social circle. So they came on and told me all about like what shenanigans he was involved in. You know, I'll always find somebody.

You got the exclusive from the social circle?

Yes. Anyway, okay, so let's go through that again. Love is Blind UK, season three. Binge it if you want a real love story and cry your face off. Okay. You're going to watch Death of the Pastor's Wife on Netflix, four episodes.

So good. I could co-sign that with Kate. So good. I saw all four.

And then lastly, Welcome to the Family, The Murder of Dan Markel. It's on Hulu, three episodes.

I'm watching that tonight.

But also Disney +, you know, Hulu and then Disney +.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Okay. Okay, I'm watching that tonight.

But they can go to katecasey.substack.com and if they go there and just plug in their email, I'll just send you an email every week that lists everything you need to watch.

So list the email again. What is it, the website?

So it's just go into like your browser, put katecasey.substack.com. That's it.

Okay. And your podcast is?

Reality Life with Kate Casey.

I love you, sister.

Thank you.

Okay. And I will see you on the next one. Bye darling.

Reality with the King is executive produced by me, Carlos King produced by Jamie Schaefer in partnership with the black effect podcast network. You can also find us at our YouTube channel at the Carlos King underscore. I'm also dropping tons of exclusive episodes on Patreon and which you don't want to miss, make sure to subscribe to that too.

RHOBH SHAKEUP: LEAH REMINI with Kate Casey

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