Stop Giving Warnings When Children Don't Listen (BratBusters Behaviour Board Audit)

0:00 Children like to feel like they have control over their own lives. They also like to feel enjoyed. They also like to feel like they're good people. Okay? This is what leadership does for them. Why do you not recommend warnings with calm leadership? Let them do whatever they're gonna do. As soon as you start micromanaging, you're trying to build obedient soldiers, which is ridiculous.

0:17 What would you say to a parent who goes, Lisa, you just don't know my child. I need to give them warnings.

0:21 Welcome to the Bratbusters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother.

0:28 And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Bratbusters. While I don't have kids, each episode we'll dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie, what are we talking about today? We are back today with another Bratbusters behavior board audit.

0:46 I like this.

0:47 Okay. It gives me something to chew on.

0:49 And then if you're listening right now and you're like, what on earth is this behavior board? If you go to Bratbusters.com, you can get access to the no-cost mini course when you join the newsletter. Kind of gives you some details on this. But I'm just gonna get right into the scenario unless you have any questions.

1:04 Nope. Okay. So it is a family of seven. There is a mom, a dad, and an 18-year-old, 17-year-old, 11-year-old, five-year-old, and three-year-old. So I'm going to start out with the mom and the dad and their rules and consequences. So the rules are no yelling, and the consequence is have to duct tape part of our mouth for the rest of the day and use other means to communicate, like sign language, charades, and writing.

1:28 Okay.

1:28 No, that's good. I don't know about the duct tape, how safe that is. But yeah, I oh, good one. Okay. No yelling and their consequence is no talking.

1:36 Now, do you find that most parents start with no yelling?

1:39 Yes, because most parents yell. And it's one of the first things that you want to get rid of. And the kids hate it when you yell and they really notice it when you stop. So yeah, very, very important. Okay. I like that.

1:50 Okay. And then getting to the teenagers, so the 18-year-old and 17-year-old, it says here that they don't have them on there because they don't really do anything wrong. And they're usually not around anyways because they're either at school, at work, or just out with friends. So they're wondering if there should if they should be on there anyways and have them pretend to break a rule.

2:11 So just like the same way that the parents pretend to break a rule sometimes or try and break their rule. Or is it okay that they're off the board?

2:17 No, I want them on the board. Everyone should be on there. Even babies I put on the board, but I just put down as their rule and their consequence, be a baby. All family members that live in the home should be on there. So it shouldn't be be a teenager. No, just put down some fake, like, well, I don't know what it could be.

2:32 Put your dishes in the sink or in the dishwasher when you're done. That's something that they're already doing. And uh yeah, exactly what they said. Just have them follow through, pretend to break rules and have a consequence. So because they got younger ones that are watching them.

2:44unknown Okay.

2:44 So And by the way, aren't they lucky that they have an 18 to 17 year old that are doing nothing wrong? Just want to point that out. Obviously, you may not even need my help if you've got two teenagers that are not doing anything wrong.

2:56 End of episode. Yeah. Goodbye. Okay, so now we're gonna get into the 11-year-old. Their rule is no hitting. And the first consequence is to give their favorite toy to whoever they hit for the rest of the day. They're nonverbal, so um, sometimes to get people's attention or so they hit sometimes to get people's attention instead of tapping or waving at them.

3:15 And the second consequence is to take video games away for the rest of the day.

3:19 Um, give favorite toy to victim. Uh yeah, it's not bad. That's the punishment fitting the crime. You know, what are the what they call natural consequences? Yeah, that's not bad. Both, they're good. And then the the no, what was the other one? No screens. If the second one was no screens. So what we're talking about here is the kids always get two consequences.

3:36 You always start with a positive action, get them to do a chore or something. But in this case, if they've hit someone, then they have to give their favorite toy to that child for the rest of the day, which is a good natural consequence. Not always necessary to have natural consequences, but that one just fits in.

3:50 And then if they won't do that though, like they won't do the first consequence, the positive action, then you resort to the negative deprivation. You take something away. So yeah, they're they're good.

3:59 I like it. Now, what would you say if instead of a favorite toy, it was like a stuffy that they loved?

4:04 No, because that's a nurturing, um, that sort of love, like they fall in love with their little stuffies that they sleep with and all that. So yeah, I don't take that away. Anything that's a comfort thing, I don't take that away.

4:14 Good question, though. So if they love Monopoly, no Monopoly for that day.

4:18 No Monopoly. I'll tell you, Monopoly is a family annihilator, really. So many fights happen over that game. Anyway, it's not, it's a good game, but yeah, lots of fights happen over that.

4:28 Actually, sidebar, it's like that game scruples. If anyone's played that, boy, that can start some arguments.

4:33 That's a good one. Yeah. It's all about scruples. It's a good one.

4:36 Yeah.

4:36 Anyway, okay, so yeah, no, I like that.

4:38 So far, so good. Everything's going great. Okay. The five-year-old, their role is no hitting, kicking, or throwing things. And the consequence is cleaning the dining table within 10 minutes. The second consequence is no TV for the rest of the day.

4:49 Yeah, I'm wondering about the rest of the day, though. It should be 24 hours. The only reason I'm wondering if what if they do that at 7 o'clock at night and they go to bed at 7:30. So make it 24 hours instead. Yep. And same with the 11-year-old. I was gonna question that, but then I let it go and I shouldn't have.

5:04 So yeah, it has to be 24 hours you remove something. The negative deprivation should be for 24 hours.

5:09 Then we have the three-year-old. So it says here, I'm struggling with him because basically he's not listening, antagonistic towards brothers, throwing toys for fun, not because he's mad, and stalling. I'm not sure where to start, so he's not on the board yet, as just turned three, and I'm still doing the toddler thing, saying no and distracting him.

5:27 If he is stalling, like trying to get him up and down the stairs, I will physically pick him up and get him down the stairs. If I'm telling him to get off the table, so he won't, I just get up and physically get him off. Not sure if he's ready for the board or what I'm waiting on. He does like to clean the table, though.

5:40 I just wanted to ask that question.

5:42 Okay, you uh for what he's old enough to be on the board if he's just turned three. And then you said you're doing the toddler thing, which is the consistent corrective action and the distracting. I don't do distracting with toddlers. Okay. Uh there's odd situations where I might sort of do indirect redirection, but I don't use distraction.

5:57 It's sort of more of a reward. I do that with babies. So that's 15 months and under. So yeah, um, I would put no aggressive behavior on the board for sure. And that throwing toys, was that what it was? He was throwing, yeah, that's aggressive behavior. Just say no aggressive behavior. And that's what you put down for the other two, also.

6:12 So all three of them, just put down, you had no hitting for the 11-year-old, just put down no aggressive behavior for all of them. That means hitting, kicking, throwing things, et cetera.

6:20 And then they did have a follow-up question. They said, Am I supposed to be doing a consequence for every time the children don't listen? So, for example, if I say to the five-year-old, don't play with that, that is not for the kids to play with. And he continues to play with it and doesn't put it down.

6:33 Am I supposed to immediately think of a positive consequence for every occurrence of not listening to what I say? I know you say eventually you won't be using a board after you learn how to do consequences. So is it never appropriate to give a warning? Like I just said, don't touch that. If you don't put it down there, I will have a consequence.

6:49 Yeah, you can't do that. Uh that that is uh like the first three weeks in coaching or in the course, the three to 12-year-old course, the first three weeks is behavior boards. I don't go off that, which is what you're talking about. You can't punish a child for not listening to you if you're not a leader and if you haven't gone into the fourth week anyway.

7:08 So, because we're only focused on what's on the board. If he doesn't listen to you, it just means that he doesn't respect you. That's all it is. You can't blame him for that. But once you're finished with the boards, we do get into that. Um, but yeah, he's just not, he just doesn't respect you yet. So you can't, if it's not on a board right now and you're working on the boards, you can't you can't address it.

7:26 Now I think not listening is such a broad term, and I think it's also something that so many parents deal with. Like I feel like not listening feels like something you want to put on the board as a rule.

7:35 The thing is that they're not listening because they don't respect you. You can't demand respect. If you put down um, you have to listen to me as a rule, what you're saying is you have to respect me. No, you earn that. That's why we never address attitude, uh, because it's something that you have to earn.

7:52 Their bad attitude towards you means they don't respect you. You've got to set yourself up as a leader because you have to be respectable to be respected by kids, right? You can't be a non-leader and yell and you know be inconsistent and expect to get respect. Of course they're not gonna listen to you.

8:05 You're not a leader yet. Once you're a leader, they do listen. You gotta earn that though. You gotta work for that, okay? You don't just uh expect to get respect without earning it. So yeah, you gotta work on that. So you can't put anything that isn't, you can't deal with every anything that is not on a board.

8:20 Um, in like I can't give you advice on that until you're finished with the three boards, the three weeks. Um, everything else, just do whatever you were doing before. But just think of it this way they're not listening because of you, not because of them. Don't get mad at them. You're working on yourself here.

8:42 I'm teaching parenting, not kidding. They already know how to kid. They're just reacting to your parenting. That's it.

8:47 Now, this person did put down as like a final note. They said, You got my attention when you related the idea of respect to a coach or a mentor. So I just wanted to go into that in case someone's listening and they haven't heard you talk about that. Why do you think that that relation's there?

9:00 You mean uh well, I've always said that the most I I can never think of a way to explain the way I treat kids. And then um would the most uh common commonality I would have with anyone who works with kids would be a coach, like a sports coach that's lots of fun but has rules, okay? And the kids look up to them.

9:18 They're they tell that coach everything. They're you're like a mentor to kids. It you're someone that they look up to, they feel good about themselves, they never yell at you unless you're on the field and they have to. You get the idea. But like a really good coach is always on the kids' side. They don't hold grudges or anything.

9:33 They're there to bring out the best in kids, okay? So let's say it's a baseball coach and they've got like 10-year-olds, and the one 10-year-old decides he's gonna cheat and not touch second base when he's running the bases, okay? So that coach is gonna be on him. He's gonna say, Okay, we're gonna have to be benched for the next inning, right?

9:48 And because they got to have consequences. So the kids bench bench for that whole inning. Then after that inning, then the coach says, Okay, come on, back in the game now. They're all positive again. That those children generally want to do well for that coach. Okay, that's what I teach. I teach calm leadership.

10:03 I lead with connection, not correction. Everyone wants to know about discipline. That's not what I'm about at all. Was I about discipline when you were growing up? I genuinely don't remember much of it. Yeah, it's I'm about connecting. I'm really good at connecting and being their love language, kids' love language is fun.

10:19 Okay, it's mine too, by the way. It's fun. So when you're having fun with your kids and you're really good at connecting, the correction hardly ever needs to happen anyway. So I really do lead with connection.

10:30 I feel like it's almost parents' approach this, like chicken or the egg kind of things, that it feels like sometimes it's hard to lead with that connection when they're acting out all the time.

10:39 Okay, you gotta find it. I've worked with hundreds of kids, troubled teens. So I know what I'm talking about here. And it's really hard to find something to connect with when a kid, especially a teenager, is being really nasty to you. Okay, but I'm always looking for that. I'm always digging for gold.

10:52 I'm always trying to find a way to connect. Now I don't let anything go either, but you've got to do this when you're learning how to be a leader. You gotta let some stuff go or just do what you were doing wrong before or whatever. Um, but yeah, I never let anything go. I correct as needed, but I move on fast and then I move right back to connecting.

11:08 Okay. Can you get into as well the idea, just to circle back on it, is the warnings. Why do you not recommend warnings with calm leadership?

11:17 Well, it doesn't make any sense at all. Uh, let's say a kid was going to touch something that they shouldn't touch and they're looking at you. I'm gonna touch it, I'm gonna touch it. I would say it's your choice, it has nothing to do with me. I let them make their own choices, okay? I I want them to feel like they're in control of their own lives.

11:34 But once they make a poor choice, I'm in there like a dirty shirt and I'm I'm correcting and I'm saying, oh, you did that. You shouldn't have done that, you knew that was wrong. Anyway, here's the consequence. And you follow it up. No anger, no yelling, nothing. Let them do whatever they're gonna do.

11:48 As soon as you start micromanaging, which is what warnings and threats are, as soon as you start micromanaging, you're you're trying to build um obedience soldiers, which is ridiculous. I want kids with pride, self-discipline, self-esteem. I want all that for children. I want to empower them. And you do that by letting them make their own choices.

12:05 But they learn very quickly that if they make a poor choice, you're gonna be in there like a dirty shirt handing out a consequence because they need to be accountable, just like you are. If I made a mistake, I'll tell you, kids I worked with, my own kids, they called me out fast. Gee, Lisa, you said you were gonna bring that and you forgot.

12:21 They love that, and then I'd make it up to them.

12:23 I think that's a big part of calm leadership and just also the behavior board in general is the autonomy back onto the child because I very much felt in control of my own life. And I feel like a lot of parents probably grew up maybe feeling like they didn't have control.

12:38 I felt I had control too. Uh, I was raised by a leader. My dad was more the pleaser, um, but he learned to kind of follow my mom. She was more the leader. I always felt heard. I was never yelled at or anything. And whenever I'd say to my mom, and my mom being, they always go to the leader first for answers and that.

12:52 I love my dad too, but I mean, my mom was the leader, right? And so I told her everything. And if I had a problem, I can remember this when I was really little. I'd go up to my mom with a problem. I'd say, mommy, this, you know, so-and-so isn't being very nice to me, or what should I do? She always answered the exact same way.

13:07 I don't know. You're a smart girl. You can figure it out, and then we'd work it through together. But she'd feed me some maybe suggestions, but she never told me what to do. And I was very, I never did that with my kids either. I just said, Well, you know, here's a what do you think you should do? I always wanted them to feel like they were in control of their own lives and they were in control of their own decisions.

13:25 But I was there sort of guiding them along if they wanted me to, but I never told them what to do. I was very careful about that. They knew right from wrong.

13:32 Sometimes I could tell that you were like biting your lip to like not tell me, and I was like, Oh, fine, tell me what you're thinking.

13:39 If she did ask that, uh, okay, fine, what is it? And I go, okay, fine. Phew. And then I'd say what I was thinking. But she had to really pull it out of me. I didn't offer it. Sometimes I wouldn't. And I could just tell. She was like, oh. And then she'd come, then she usually asked me anyway. If she knew I, if she knew, she could tell if I was thinking something.

13:57 Yeah. But it's very important that you don't try and micromanage your children because it's not sustainable. It doesn't last through the teen years. Okay. They're going to rebel. They're going to hold secrets from you. If they're just obedient soldiers listening to you, then that's ridiculous. It's not sustainable.

14:11 What would you say to a parent who goes, Lisa, you just don't know my child. I need to give them warnings.

14:16 I know your child. I've met them. They just had different names throughout the decades. Okay. I've met them all. Um, all children like to feel like they have control over their own lives. They also like to feel enjoyed. They also like to feel like they're good people. Okay. This is what leadership does for them.

14:30 Their self-esteem skyrockets with good leadership. And when you feel good, you do good. When you feel bad, you do bad. You know, threats make people feel bad. Could you imagine if you were like, let's say your spouse and you're out somewhere and they said, Oh, don't touch that, don't do it. Like, how it wouldn't you kind of want to rebel?

14:49 Yeah, it's just, you know, let them do what they're gonna do. Unless it's dangerous, then you intervene, obviously. But yeah, you want them to have self-discipline and pride. Where's their pride if all they're ever doing is listening to you? There is no pride. They're just obedient soldiers. That's ridiculous.

15:04 Okay. Well, that was everything on my end. Do you have anything on your end?

15:08 No, actually, this was a good one because they got pretty, I was just nitpicking, which is what I'm here for. So yeah, I really like the no yelling uh for the parents that and then also they can't talk for the rest of the day. That's one of the most common ones I use, especially with older kids. You're allowed to answer them.

15:22 And and what I usually say is I say, okay, you're not allowed to talk for usually after dinner. So that's usually what I do. So I say, okay, so if parents yell, then they're not allowed to talk after dinner. It could be a whole day, whatever. Um, but then you're allowed to talk if they say you can. And what I do with that, if you're not watching me, I'm holding my hand up and my got my fingers open like a little puppet talking.

15:43 They can literally go, okay, you can talk when I hold my fingers open like that, but then when I close them, you have to stop talking. Kids have a riot with this and play into that. Go, well, what I was thinking was it, and then they close their mouth and you have to stop talking right away. You're supposed to have fun with this.

15:57 Your consequences are connecting and fun for the kids.

15:59 I liked that. It's like it does add a little levity to the whole situation as well to make it feel like the consequences aren't this like big, bad, scary thing. Which is the whole point.

16:07 You know, your consequences are supposed to be connection with your kids. They're supposed to feel totally in control of you during your consequence. Oh, I had the cutest thing today. Um, one of my clients, um, she said, uh, oh, I know, her little six-year-old uh was mom had yelled or something. I can't remember.

16:24 Anyway, mom broke a rule, and the six-year-old said, Do you know what I want you to do? I love it when kids start offering consequences. Like they start coming up with their own ideas because that just proves they're into this whole system. They get it. By the way, I learned all this from working with kids.

16:37 I've never, that's all I've ever done. I've never read a book on parenting. Everything I teach, kids and teenagers have taught me. This little six-year-old said to the mom, you know what, mom? Instead of you doing whatever it was, the normal consequence, I want you to wear no makeup all day tomorrow.

16:52 Is that the cutest thing? I thought that was adorable. So the mom said, Sure, okay, great. But the kid, isn't that darling? That just proves that the kids feel respected. That's what that said to me. That child feels respected. I thought that was adorable.

17:06 Anyway, just to clarify, she gets permission to share these. Of course I do. Anyway, thanks so much for listening. One last thing is if you would like to submit your own board, you can do so. We have in the show notes where you can submit a podcast question. So for a chance to be featured in an upcoming episode.

17:21 Okay.

17:21 Thanks so much for listening. Happy parenting. We'll back again soon.

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17:41 Your feedback helps us reach more parents just like you. The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional advice. Lisa is a parenting coach, mom, and grandmother. She is not a licensed psychologist or counselor. Her services do not replace the care of psychologists or other healthcare professionals.

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