The Real Reason Children Use Verbal Pushback

0:00 If you look the least bit upset by that, they're winning. They're just trying to upset you. It's kind of sometimes all they have. My almost two and a half year old is picked up using the word stupid. If she's only two and a half, you've got to follow that up with consistent corrective actions.

0:11 I know I'm not a leader because I show frustration, anger, and disappointment, and I yell.

0:15 The number one thing that I picked up on that I want you to stop doing right away is welcome to the Bratbusters Parenting Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a parenting coach. I'm a mom. I'm also a grandmother.

0:25 And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter, and I handle the marketing and planning here at Bratbusters. While I don't have kids, each episode we'll dive into parenting topics and Lisa will answer your questions. Let's get started. Okay, sweetie, what is today's parenting topic? We're talking about verbal pushback.

0:41 So we have questions about children saying, I hate you, those guilt tripping phrases, like you don't love me, you never play with me. And then also what to do when your toddlers start giving you some pushback. But first, I want you to get into the idea of if your child says that they hate you, how do you respond?

0:59 I remember once I obviously wasn't very bright. Uh I think I was about nine or ten. And I don't know why, but I was mad at my dad for some reason. And I said to him stupidly, I said, I wouldn't love you if you weren't my dad. I couldn't get myself to say I hate you. I wouldn't love, in other words, love you, dad.

1:18 Anyway, and he just burst out laughing. I was so mad because I realized right away that didn't land. But anyway, uh, they're just saying it to fish hook you. That's what I call when they're throwing stuff out and they're trying to hook you and hook you into stuff. It's just pure manipulation. They're just mad because they didn't get their own way.

1:34 They're mad because things aren't going their way and they don't like that. So they're gonna try and hurt you. They're gonna try and get under your skin. If they just go on and they say, I hate you, I hate you, you're the worst mom in the world, nobody loves me and all that, just go, oh, okay. Yeah. If they're just okay, and just walk away and go do the dishes or something.

1:52 Don't walk away in anger, just go about your business. Like they're just fish hooking you. Now, this is when they're mad. If they say something like that when you're, let's say, on a ride at an amusement park and they're having a great time. If they said, I hate you, then I would ask questions. I'm like, what the heck?

2:09 It we're just addressing the ones where they're mad, okay? Like almost like it's a retaliation for having a consequence or something like that. Well, what else have they got? They can't take your car keys away and not let you drive for a week or something. They got nothing over you, basically. That's that's their control, is saying, I hate you.

2:25 Do you know what's funny is I I don't even know why this is, but a lot of little uh little wee kids, like two, three, four, mate, they come up with the exact same nasty name for their parents. It's poopy face. Now they can't all be sharing this, these notes. They don't hear it from someone else usually.

2:41 Because I ask around, I say, you know, where'd they get this from? They often come up with that poopy face. Isn't that weird? They all had a mastermind session, they go, Yes, poopy face. Poopy face, that's gonna land. I really like that one. Yeah, okay.

2:52 Yeah. Well, why do you think neutrality is so important in these situations?

2:57 Well, if they're trying to fish hook you, just don't be caught. Like, just don't get pulled into it. They're trying to manipulate and control you. Don't allow that. They're just mad because they didn't get their own way. If they keep yelling, I hate you, I hate you, say, okay, anyway. And then if they when they calm down, then you change the subject.

3:12 Don't dust, don't discuss it afterwards. A lot of parents wanted every parent almost wants to go into these huge discussions around all this. Big mistake. There's no point discussing it. Okay. You're just going to embarrass them once they've calmed down. And there's no point, there was no meaning behind it.

3:26 It was just empty words trying to upset you, trying to control you, trying to manipulate you, trying to get a reaction out of you. If it gets no reaction, they're going to stop doing it.

3:35 What would be your response if a parent wants to say, well, I love you anyways, and then just moves on?

3:40 I don't even do that because they already know that. I'm assuming you're already connected, okay, when I'm talking like this. So if you say that, now you're on the low road, you're actually responding to it. So they're they've just controlled you. So yeah, I wouldn't even say that. So I hate you. Well, I love you.

3:55 Yeah, it it can work. By the way, it can work. I just don't like it. I think it's a stronger message to just go, okay, or whatever. Alrighty then. And then just wander off and go about your business. I think this might be a- Wait a minute. There's that thing that they say that the worst thing, the the worst thing you can do to someone who's on the attack is be indifferent towards them, right?

4:16 It's not coming back with a good one-liner or trying to appease them. It's indifference. And that's what we're using here is indifference. Like, doesn't bother me. Okay, whatever. They say that's the best medicine for someone coming at you is indifference.

4:28 This might be a little bit of a sidebar, but do you want to talk about your approach with saying I love you to your children? Because I think a lot of parents maybe didn't hear that very much growing up. So it might not feel natural coming out of their mouth.

4:40 Well, how often do I tell you I love you? Oh, daily. Of course. Um, but that's my style. And I I, you know, I remember my mom never told me she loved me, and neither did my dad. Um, it was just wasn't done back then. She was a very loving mom, um, and we were very close, but she never said, I love you.

4:57 And I'm really big on that. And I remember I was an adult and I said, Mom, I said, you know, I love you. And she's and she goes, Well, you know I love you too. Like that's such a lame way of responding. You know I love you too. And I said, Mom, just say I love you. And so she did. And then she goes, Yeah, I'm just not comfortable verbalizing that.

5:13 She wasn't raised that way. They were English, you know, stiff upper lip. They just didn't talk about their feelings. And so anyway, what was interesting is I said, Mom, you she loves sugar. She loved compliments. It was just she didn't have any of that growing up either. So she loved compliments. And she said, I and I said, Mom, she goes, Well, people know I love them, so I don't have to say it.

5:31 And I said, Mom, you love sugar. The nicest sugar you can ever receive or give to someone is the words, I love you. Then she got it. We said, I love you every single day after that. And she loved it. She started it, she'd say it all the time to me too. But they're just wonderful words to hear. So say it.

5:48 I think it's just one of those things because I don't think you've ever had the opportunity to really talk about that very much on this podcast. But yeah, that is something I heard. It's interesting because you talk about you don't tend to overpraise, but I heard I love you and all of those really nice things daily.

6:04 Well, I don't praise, I'm not one for praising. Oh, you did such a good job with I don't do that. But what I did with my kids, every single day they knew I told them in many forms how lucky I felt to have them, how special they were to me. So every day I wake up and I think, am I lucky? I got you two gorgeous children.

6:21 So I talked like that, but I didn't praise just because they put their laundry away or something. I don't praise normal stuff, but the fact that they were my precious children, yeah, I praise that all the time. But I used words like, you know, I just I feel so lucky I've got you such gorgeous kids. I'm just so lucky, so grateful.

6:37 So I talked like that, but I didn't praise them for stuff they did so much. Um, I just didn't.

6:43 Yeah, and I think it's something that I've carried into my life now too. Like I say I love you to you all the time. And I don't know if I'm as much someone who verbalizes that.

6:52 So no, that's me. That my mom wasn't like that, and you weren't like that, and it's not your basic nature or your brother's basic nature, but they both say it all the time because they were raised with that. So to them, and you know, it is still, and and some people say, well, it doesn't have meaning after a while.

7:06 I mean it every single time I say it. I never say it to someone that I don't love. So I mean it every single time I say it. So it does have meaning. Doesn't dilute it. No, not at all. And you know, even if it's not your way, I still think it's a nice thing to introduce. I just do. It's the nicest thing you can say to someone is I love you.

7:24 By the way, Amy, I love you.

7:26 I love you too, mom. I just felt necessary. Um, it feels a little diluted, you know. Yeah. Um, but what if you have maybe a dad listening who's maybe a little bit more stoic and they just don't want to say it?

7:39 Okay, if you don't want to say it, you don't have to say it. I'm just saying it's a nice thing to say. You don't have to say it, but I think it's the nicest thing you can hear from someone is I love you. So, uh and if you love your kids enough, just give it a go. Just try it. You know, love them enough to say I love you.

7:54 I do think it's important. Now you don't have to say it every day like I did, or every time I see my kids, I say it, but you have to at least give it a go once, I think, in their lifetime. You know, my dad died when I was 14. We never said I love you. You know what? I mean, I have a lot of regrets because I was only 14.

8:10 There was a I didn't get to know him. I didn't grow up, you know, he was sick for many years before he died. So I missed out on a lot. And I really regret not telling him what he meant to me. I don't think he had a clue how much he meant to me. And I really regret I never told him I loved him, but it wasn't his way either.

8:25 But you know, you don't want to die with any regrets. You don't want to die thinking, boy, they didn't even I didn't even say I love you to my kids. Give it a go. Just try it. Might be awkward, but give it a go. Oh, this is funny. I I told this to, I was telling this to a client once years ago, and they said they told their kids they loved them and they laughed at them because they'd never heard it before.

8:48 And then they ended up getting better at it. But I thought that was hilarious. It might feel a little unnatural at first. Yeah, the kids thought, what did we do? What did we, you know, they thought it was a joke.

8:57 Kids said, and the parents said, Boy, have we got some work to do. And it was cute. Now, circling back to the topic, um phrases like I hate you, you don't love me, could you put that on the Bratbuster's behavior board?

9:09 Never, because that's attitude, that's retaliation, and it's just anger-based. Anything attitude you can't put on there. The only things that come out of their mouth that you can put on the board is if they swear or name-call. So you can put down no bad words or no name-calling. You can put that down, but you can't put down attitude because their attitude is on you.

9:26 You can't blame them for your lack of leadership. If you were a leader, they wouldn't have a bad attitude towards you. So that's your that's on you. You can't punish them for something you you did. And their bad attitude is on you. Okay, should we get into the questions? Sure. Just before we do, I love you, mom.

9:41 Love you too, sweetie.

9:43 Okay. Now that one felt really watered down. Okay, the first one here is Ash from the United States. When telling my almost four-year-old no after they make a request, he then screams, cries, and decides to hate terminology such as, I like when you go to work, I don't like you, I wish you weren't my mom.

9:59 I like such and such mums instead. I understand this response is emotional based. However, how do you respond and how do you ensure it doesn't continue?

10:07 Oh, if he's four and he's going on and on, I would be standing there listening to him, kind of nodding, looking at him. As soon as he's done, I'd say, Oh, y'all done? I'm gonna go do the dishes now. Remember, indifference. Like in other words, you know what he's doing and don't let it get under your skin.

10:21 But I'd be standing there listening to it. I hate you. I wish someone else, they're they're way better. I wish I was their kid, blah, blah, blah. Don't say, I wish you were their kid too. Be careful with that stuff. So just as soon as they're done, say, Oh, y'all done? Okay, I'm gonna go do the dishes now.

10:35 He will escalate because he didn't, he didn't win. He probably will get worse. And that's okay, that's what you want. If he gets worse, it means you just won.

10:42 Yeah, I think that that could be a trap of fighting fire with fire, being like ditto, or right back at you. Like that would be hard.

10:48 You don't think I thought that I'd be better off with hit with the other kids? So you gotta watch that stuff. Don't buy into it. Then yeah, then you're just out, you know, you're attacking him the way he's attacking you. Uh, but yeah, don't don't buy into it. Just listen to him, be nodding while he's talking.

11:04 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, like you're listening. Then oh, y'all done? Okay, I'm gonna do the dishes. That would throw them off. Remember the I can't remember the exact saying, but indifference. It's like doesn't bother me. It is the most annoying thing when someone's trying to trying to upset you.

11:25 We'll get into the next question. So, Kendall from the United States. My daughter is turning four this week. Lately, when we correct her, she doesn't get her way, she'll say, You don't love me. If I need to finish dinner or work instead of playing, she says, You never play with me anymore, you're always working.

11:38 She also starts saying, I'm just a little girl, I'm only three, I don't know things, even when it's something she understands. My husband and I both work and I know I'm away more than I'd like to be. When we're home, we play with her and we try to give her each um each of our children at least five to ten minutes of individual time with every parent every single day.

11:56 She's also cared by uh for by loving grandparents and attends preschool. I can handle tantrums, but these comments are harder for me. I don't want to dismiss a real feeling, and I also don't want you love me to become the way of avoiding a limit. How do you respond in the moment to a nearly four-year-old who says this?

12:12 And how would you handle her distress when I leave for work without expecting her to understand adult responsibilities like paying bills?

12:19 You're not gonna like my answer. You gotta spend more time with her. She's feeling neglected and unloved. Yep. Even if you're at work and you can do a FaceTime, you that even that is good. You gotta spend more time with that kid. It's one thing that she said that sparked that. She said, You don't spend enough time with me.

12:38 And then everything you said backed that up. I spent at least five to ten minutes a day with them. Nah, that's not enough.

12:44 It sounds like there's multiple children.

12:46 So do you think just And you do when you said five to ten minutes with each of them, you don't do that. You don't single them out and do one-on-one time. You do it with both of them or all of them. Um, yeah, you you don't spend enough time with them. And I'm I'm I'm thinking you do it out of duty. That's my gut.

13:00 I'm getting a real feeling here that you do this out of duty. Well, we timed it. We spent five to ten minutes with you. Um, that should be good enough. You know, we did that one-on-one time. Yeah, it's just guilt that you're doing it. You're just doing it because you feel you have to. Find joy in your children.

13:14 Just follow, follow everything I've I'm talking about here. Follow, do we have any podcasts just on connection? I will link them in the show notes for you. I don't know that because you need to learn how to connect with your child. Uh everything that you said led to me to believe she feels neglected and unloved.

13:28 I think this is why I love having parenting questions, is because at the very start of the podcast, if you were to use that approach of just dismissing it, how would it impact this situation? Big mistake.

13:39 Yeah. I won't I won't go on about it because parents, if you're listening, you're probably already feeling bad about it. Don't feel bad. You didn't know. Okay. Now you know. You got to spend more time with her. She doesn't feel special. She needs to feel special.

13:52 Now I know that you've worked with a lot of parents who are working full time, like they have a lot on their plate. What are some nice ways that you found that they've been able to connect that maybe don't take hours and hours?

14:03 Well, a lot of video calls, if a lot of parents travel a lot and they're very busy. A lot of my clients both will work full time and they travel a lot with business, etc. And uh video calls can really help, have rituals too. They love that. Such a silly thing. But I remember my dad, uh, he didn't work long hours or anything, but we were up really early.

14:22 Uh I was like a baby when he would do this. My mom got up a bit later, so he'd get up at five and go to work by six. So that time was precious to me. That was mom and dad, that was me and my dad time. And I remember every time he'd leave, he'd say, See you later, alligator. And then in a while, crocodile.

14:37 Like we did that every single morning. And it's those rituals. And I always saw that smile on his face. He he loved me. I always felt so special when I was with him. And that takes that that you know corrects a whole bunch of stuff. So yeah, um, have rituals, have things where you just do with your kids that and and try and relax, try and relax into it too.

14:57 Don't look like you're doing time. And you said grandparents are looking after them. You know what? I'm a grandmother. My granddaughter loves me and I love her, but I'm not mom. I'm not dad. Mom and dad are the most important people in those children's lives. Okay. Grandparents, we're we're second best.

15:12 We're pretty darn good. She's got great grandparents on the other side, too. Yeah, we're pretty darn good, but we're not mom and dad. You can't, they can't make up for mom and dad.

15:20 The next one's Alyssa from the United States. My almost two and a half year old is picked up using the word stupid, not by me or her grandmother. She really only says it when she's not getting her way. When she's not getting her way, it's fairly loudly to let you know she's not happy. Or when she goes down for a nap, she'll go under the covers and say it under her breath.

15:37 I just haven't hit the crossroad of my child saying a bad word, and I don't really know how to go about handling that. Should I ignore it? Just say okay, say no, we don't say that. Help a first-time parent out, please.

15:47 Okay, if she says it when she's going to sleep, I wouldn't do anything about it. But if she says it right to your face and she's holding something like a toy, and she says stupid, then I would say, no, don't say stupid, and you can say that, don't say stupid, and then take the toy away from her. You've if she's only two and a half, you've got to follow that up with consistent corrective actions.

16:04 But if she she's just saying it under her breath when she's in bed, I wouldn't worry about that. Just ignore it. Let it go.

16:09 I don't remember what I said, but I do remember, I don't know if I got a consequence for something. Something set me off. I would have been like five. And I remember going to my room to mutter things under my breath.

16:21 Yeah. She used to go and mutter. Yeah, she, if she got frustrated with something, she'd go and mutter under her breath. She was not confrontational at all. Her brother would just say something right to my face if he didn't like it, where she would go in a room and I'd hear her muttering.

16:33 I think this is so embarrassing to admit. I think I'd look in the mirror. You'd probably say it to herself. To really, you know, hammer the point home.

16:41 Yeah. I was probably in the kitchen laughing. Yeah, whatever. Get it out of your system. I don't care. Your brother just would have come up and said, Mom, I didn't like that. I don't think, and so we'd talk about it. But she, but she always has had a different personality in that she has to process things before she verbalizes them.

16:55 So she wasn't one to just come right out and say what she was thinking. So, you know, they're all different, right? And boy, have you disrespected that so much. Hmm.

17:03 No, I you do respect it, but I think there's been times where you're like, just say it.

17:07 Yeah, I was frustrated by it. I thought, you know, if you're bugged by something, just say it. Because I just say it. Your brother just said it. You were just like, well, I don't know. I'll think about it. You know, just say it. Because then it would come out later and I could tell it'd been on her mind.

17:18 I said, You wasted a whole hour with you sitting stewing on that. Why didn't you just say something an hour ago? But she didn't have the, she didn't have, she wasn't old enough to explain that she had to process it before she could speak it.

17:29 Yeah. Now if I'm perturbed, mom, mom will be like, okay, I'll hear about it tomorrow.

17:33 Yeah, I said, Oh, well, you'll tell me tomorrow. So I'm just so used to it now. But I, because I'm not like that at all. And there was an old Roseanne. I just love this, uh, the old show, Roseanne, the original Roseanne show. And there was Roseanne and Jackie, the two sisters. They couldn't have been more different.

17:47 And something was bothering Jackie, and she wouldn't tell anyone. She goes, Oh, I'm just, I can't, I can't talk about it yet. And Roseanne said, That's the difference between you and I. When something's upsetting you, you hold it all in and don't talk about it. When something's upsetting me, I like to share it instantly with everybody and bring them all down.

18:04 That's me. I like to share my misery right away, whereas Jackie liked to keep it to herself. That's that we're both like that.

18:10 I think that would be the interesting thing though about having children is that they're all so different. And then they're little personality tweaks. It's like you might have one child who's just a spitting image of you in all ways, and then others are not.

18:21 Yeah, and that's what I loved about raising kids because the rules were the same for them both, but they had such different personalities. And every kid I've worked with, there's always something different. And you got to respect that. We're not min, they're not mini you's. And a lot of parents complain about having the black sheep in the family, and they're the ones who's different.

18:37 They might be the real successful ones keeping you all in your old age. So yeah, it doesn't just because they're different doesn't mean it's not good. Like a lot of parents tend to think that way. Well, they're so different from me. And is that maybe a good thing? Like it might be a great thing. I loved watching them form their different personalities.

18:53 I loved it.

18:54 Okay, we have one final question. So my six and seven-year-olds speak to me very disrespectfully. I know I'm not a leader because I show frustration, anger, and disappointment, and I yell. I've shamed my kids for their bad behavior. That's what happened to me as a child, but also it's because my husband and I argue all the time in front of our kids.

19:09 So I'm working on myself and my husband too to never do any of this again. I'm worried it's too late given how old my kids are and I've given them emotional challenges. Is there a better way to respond to our daughters when they're grumpy, complaining, angry, or yelling? Or, for example, refusing to wear the thing that they picked out for school the night before or mean to their sibling?

19:26 I just don't have the words to say, especially when we're under a time crunch. Sweetheart, we don't speak to people that way. We speak respectfully. It's on the behavior board, so we're gonna move to the consequence when we get home, then move on. They usually both end up with a consequence at the same time because they always retaliate.

19:41 When you said sweetheart, we don't talk to people that way. You're wasting words there. It's ridiculous. Yeah, don't do that. Um, but the number one thing that I picked up on that I want you to stop doing right away is arguing. Uh, you and your husband arguing. You can argue behind closed doors, but never argue in front of your kids.

19:57 It scares them, makes them feel really bad about themselves. It's funny, they don't tend to feel bad about you. They tend to feel bad about themselves. Everything goes in with kids. Um, if parents divorce, they blame themselves. What did we do wrong? You know, so it's just kids, they're very um in they everything is all about them, basically, because they're children.

20:13 That's the way they view things. Stop arguing in front of them. You can argue behind the scenes. I'd suggest you get your own behavior board, um, you and the husband, and kind of use it with humor and say never undermine each other in front of the kids, something like that. That's your rule. And then the the consequence is usually like a foot massage, or the husband has to bring you coffee in bed the next morning or something, or vice versa.

20:33 But yeah, it's supposed to be kind of funny, but it just points out, you know, makes sort of turns a negative into a positive. Anyway, and then the shaming. You said you blame your kids, you shame your kids. And then you said we don't talk like that. We don't, you know, sweetheart, we don't talk like that.

20:46 Yeah, they do. They just did, so we do. That's an absolute empty statement. It makes you look so weak, like you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, we don't talk like that. Yeah, we just did, so we do. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Okay, so use the behavior board, start there. And you said you're shaming them.

21:01 Yeah, that I won't go into that because I don't know exactly what you're saying or doing, but it would be something like this. Why would you do that? Or you know better than that? That's the shaming, blaming, and bullying. We don't do that. We just say, okay, you did that. Here's your consequence. Start with the free behavior board.

21:13 It's at bratbusters.com. Start from scratch with all that stuff, and then you guys fighting, yeah, you got to stop that. It really does scare them.

21:21 But I do you think that there is an element of it's almost acknowledging it and having the awareness is like the first step.

21:27 Uh maybe. Um, you know, but then again, still following through is still hard to do because I with clients, they oftentimes they'll rehire me over and over and over again. And it's I'm saying a lot of the same stuff, but they're just not ready to hear it. So yeah, it can be like, wow, I didn't see that coming, or yeah, I get it, but they're still not ready to make a change.

21:46 So you've got to change in your own time. Uh it's not going to be easy, by the way. Um, but yeah, changing, you're basically changing yourself in a lot of ways. That's what I'm asking of you. And I and I'm not unaware of how difficult that is, but your kids are worth it. And I want you to touch on the idea of it being too late.

22:01 It's never too God, there's six and seven. My goodness. I specialize in troubled teenagers. If it's not too late at 16 and 17, it's not too late at six and seven. You got plenty of time. Okay. Well, that was it for the parenting questions. Okay, so it was verbal pushback. Uh, the verbal pushback is usually just baiting you.

22:18 You know, they're throwing out the hook trying to catch you. And uh just don't fall into it. Just go, oh, okay, never mind, or whatever. Yeah, and don't look perturbed at all. If you look the least bit upset by that, they're winning. They're just trying to upset you. It's kind of sometimes all they have.

22:32 You know, they haven't got a lot of power over you. So telling you they hate you, that's maybe power, but don't give it any power. If you look upset, it has power. Okay, I think that's a great place to end. Sounds good. And we'll talk to you again soon about another parenting topic. Happy parenting.

22:46 Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to dive deeper, check out Bratbusters.com to learn more about the behavior board, parenting courses, and private 101 coaching with Lisa. If you've enjoyed the show so far, we'd love it if you could take a moment to follow, rate, and review us on your favorite podcast platform.

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