Kherson Under Fire: Voices of Survival

0:00 Russia's war against Ukraine, which former US President Donald Trump had promised to end immediately upon taking office, continues unabated. Bombs are still falling on Ukrainian cities, people are dying, suffering persists, and lately there have been growing international efforts to achieve a ceasefire, especially through pressure and sanctions, particularly from European leaders.

0:23 Donald Trump is also making efforts. In fact, on the very day this podcast is being recorded, he held a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin. However, so far, all these initiatives remain inconclusive and offer little cause for optimism. This raises the question, what do the people in Ukraine actually think?

0:46 What do those living in bombed-out cities make of the developments on the international stage? That's exactly what we'll be exploring in today's episode of In Crisis Mode. The people who experienced the occupation in this war, they will never be the same again. In Crisis Mode, the podcast from Conflict Zones with Jan Jessen.

1:09 Welcome to a new episode of In Crisis Mode. I'm Jan Jessen, Chief Political Correspondent for NDR ZD and a War and Crisis Reporter for the Funkamedia Group. You can read my reports in the NDR ZD, the WAZ, the Hamburger Abendblatt, the Berliner Morgenpost, and of course on all the online portals of the Funker Media Group.

1:30 Today, I'm taking you to Kherson, a city in southern Ukraine that, perhaps more than any other, has become symbolic of this war. I've been to Kherson several times, and you can find those earlier episodes linked in the show notes. Kherson gained symbolic significance because it was occupied early in the war by Russian forces.

1:51 Located at the mouth of the Dnipro River, it was the only regional capital to fall into Russian hands after the invasion began. The city surrendered with little or no resistance and remained under occupation for eight months. During this time, Russian forces established a highly repressive regime. Some call it a reign of terror. Die Menschen verletzten, wurden tortured und verletzten, beide Männer und Frauen.

2:18 In der Fall von 2022, die Stadt wurde liberiert. Aber seitdem dann, es hat sich unter constantem attackiert. Von der Opposite Riverbank, still controlled by Russian troops, Drones, Rockets, und Artillerie strikes bombardiert die Stadt almost daily. Civilian casualties sind, sadly, ein regularer occurrence.

2:38 In this episode, you'll hear directly from people living in Kursen, how they live with fear, why they choose to remain despite the dangers, and what they think about the latest peace initiatives. Let me start by introducing Natalia. She's in her late 30s and lives in Kursen. Each day she faces the full force of this war. She works as a firefighter, often risking her life to save others.

3:05 I met her in one of the relatively safer parts of the city, the Shumensky District. There, people can still walk outside, unlike in the city center, where crowds once celebrated liberation on Freedom Square in autumn, 2022. Today, it's almost impossible to walk there due to constant drone activity. Some of these drones are fiberoptic and cable-controlled, making them immune to jamming. A frightening detail.

3:33 But even in the relatively calmer Shumensky district, just last week there was heavy shelling. Natalia shared her views on Russian demands, specifically that any peace agreement must include uncontested access to Kherson and other territories that haven't been occupied. The Russians want Ukraine to withdraw and effectively give up these regions, also parts of Luhansk and Donetsk.

3:58 It's a steep demand. I really hope that Kherson doesn't end up with Russia and that the Kherson region remains part of Ukraine. And Zaporizhia and Kharkiv, we will take them all back completely. Too many human lives have been lost to just give everything up like that. Not far from where I met Natalia, I spoke with Deniz, who was sitting on a bench beneath the trees.

4:22 In Kherson, residents stay under trees to avoid being spotted by drones, which may carry grenades or act as kamikaze devices. Remaining unseen is often a matter of life and death. You notice this everywhere. Cars are parked under trees. Buses are avoided. Anything visible is a potential target. There have even been deadly attacks on public transport. Dennis and his friend Taras, both 20 years old, are studying to become sailors.

4:52 Dennis spoke about how special it feels to visit his grandparents in Mykoliv, just 60 kilometers away. Er beschreibt, wie die dire life in Kyrsten hat. Wenn ich denis über die Kriegs-Negotiations- such as die recenten Talks in Istanbul, war er skeptisch. Die waren los-hier-deutsch-Diplomaten Talks mit noem tangibles results.

5:13 Die Russen fortschreitend zu demand full control von all Territories sie claimen zu annex in 2022. Well, in Kyrsten, there ist constant artillery shelling. Drones fliegen nonstop every day. At the moment, you can only move around more or less freely in Taryski and Šimanski, where they are currently located.

5:34 The rest, like the city center, I've even been there myself. It's impossible. There are literally drones on every corner. Driving is almost impossible because of the constant attacks. So, yes, it is very dangerous. I asked him if Kursen could be considered the price for peace. Denis was conflicted. Er wondered if Kursen could still be called a city, given all the destruction.

6:03 Ultimately, he said it was up to the politicians. Taras had a different view. He pointed out that many of the soldiers currently fighting are from regions like Kursen, Donetsk or Luhansk, and they should be asked how they feel about surrendering their homes. A powerful and thought-provoking comment. I follow the news a little bit, but honestly, I found it pointless.

6:26 They came, talked about something, but didn't really agree on anything, as always, and left again. So, that's an interesting viewpoint, and maybe it's worth asking the soldiers, those who risk their lives, what they think of such plans. Just a few meters from the bench where Taras and Denis sat, there is a building that used to be both a cinema and a nightclub, a place where people celebrated, danced, laughed, and watched movies.

6:55 After the Liberation in Autumn 2022, it briefly served as a humanitarian hub where food was distributed to Kirsten's residents. Then, a few weeks later, the Russians bombed it, and now it's just a ruin. Shattered glass, twisted steel, broken concrete scattered around. Before that, I met Tatiana, who was out with her friend. Both have pitbulls.

7:19 You might even hear one in the background. That's Katya's pitbull, which was quite intimidating and very aggressive. Anyway, I spoke with Tatiana about the situation. She said she used to go to that cinema and watched films there. She regretted that it's now destroyed. She's a primary school teacher and teaches many of her students online.

7:42 Some are abroad, but some still remain in Kursen. She's trying to maintain some normalcy and told me how she manages. I'm quite busy because I'm constantly online and working with children who are abroad. That's why I rarely go outside. Wenn wir gehen, dann sehr schnell. Sie gehen von der Zaporizhjee.

8:05 Sie gehen von der Zaporizhjee, of course, weil es einfach zu gefährlich ist. Sie sagt, sie haben lange lange walken mit den Päden, manchmal eine Stunde und eine Stunde oder mehr. Das ist nicht mehr möglich. Jetzt geht sie nur kurz nachdenken, um die Päden zu lassen, weil es viel zu risk für lange Zeit zu gehen.

8:23 Ich habe auch gefragt, wie sie fühlen über die Gespräche und die Russische für die Unkontestetung von Zaporizhjee still unoccupied parts of Luhansk and Donetsk. She said those demands are completely unacceptable to her. My mother lives on the left bank and stayed there alone. She buried my father by herself.

8:47 Still, we want to return, reunite, see each other again in Ukraine. She also shared some other thoughts with me. By the left bank, Tatyana means the area on the other side of the river that is occupied by the Russians, from where they keep shooting into the city. Sometimes I get the impression it's simply revenge for losing Krasnodar in autumn 2022.

9:14 Otherwise, it's hard to explain. These are, in my opinion, pure terror attacks because they constantly target civilian infrastructure in Kherson. As I said, now drones specifically hunt cars, civilian vehicles, buses, and such, which has no military purpose. So, it really looks like revenge, trying to demoralize the people in Kurson, who, as I mentioned, celebrated and cheered on Freedom Square in the city center in autumn 2022.

9:46 Now, that place is a no-go zone because it's just too dangerous. Und ja, Tatjana sagt, dass ihr Mutter in dieser Umgebung ist allein in dieser Umgebung, und sie hat ihr Vater buried. Das ist eine der heart-breakingen Geschichte, die ihr immer wiederhörtert. Wenn die Russen kam, es kam so schnell, dass sie nicht mehr Zeit haben, und sogar heute, die Familien bleiben.

10:10 Tatjana sagt, dass ich mit meiner Mutter wiederhörte. Ich will wiederkommen. Ich will wieder sein. Ich will wieder sein. Und das muss ich Ukraine. So a very clear statement, she does not want Ukrainian territory ceded to the Russians. Olga, who I also met in that area, thinks similarly. She had a small Pekingese dog with her on a walk. She said the dog is not scared at all.

10:35 I asked if he gets nervous from all the explosions. No, no, no, he's used to it. He's a frontline dog, which was funny because he was so small. Olga, like almost everyone I talked to there, except maybe Dennis, was very clear about what she thinks and how she sees the future. I don't believe that our government will simply give up Kherson, that they would hand over the city to Russia.

10:59 That's not going to happen. I just can't imagine it. These demands from the Russians, they can go where their warship already ended up. We suffered under the occupation for eight months and still resisted. That must not have been in vain. I refuse to believe that our government would now just sign a document that gives up Kherson.

11:18 The warship she mentioned is the Moskva. You might remember that in April 2022, this Russian flagship of the Black Sea Fleet was sunk. It also became a symbol of resistance and defiance because back then, in March and April 2022, no one thought Ukraine would survive this war for long. But it did. And the sinking of that ship became a symbol of that resistance.

11:43 Many people still remember that. Und so hat Olga gesagt, »They should all go into the water, into the sea, they should be sunk. After we left Kursen, we spent a few hours there, heard other stories, but then we headed east. As I said, Kursen is in southern Ukraine, and we continued east to Kramatorsk, where I am now.

12:05 Please excuse the sound quality of this recording. I'm doing this from an apartment because, as journalists, we can no longer stay in hotels. Most are destroyed, and hotels are often targeted because military personnel are stationed there near the front. That's why hotels are deliberately attacked. So lately, we try to find apartments, that's why I'm here now, hoping the sound is okay.

12:28 While we were driving here, there was that conversation between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. As mentioned, Trump believes he can end this war relatively quickly. He keeps demanding that it should finally be over. And yes, somehow this conversation, like so many others lately, seems to have happened without any real outcome.

12:51 So, hier in der Hintergrund, wir sind in Ukraine, speziell in Kramatorsk, kurz nach Putin und Trump gesprochen auf der Telefon. By der Zeit der Kallende wurde, es hat bereits dark gemacht. Und wie Sie hören können, es ist eine andere Sirene-Aira-Siren. So Sie können verstehen, warum Menschen in Kramatorsk nicht wirklich glauben, dass Frieden kommt irgendwann bald.

13:13 Ich habe auch mit meinem Fixer gesprochen. Fixers sind die Leute, die uns auf dem Boden helfen, Open Doors, Prepare Trips with Us, Local Colleagues And my friend and fixer, Artem Lissak I asked him what he thinks of these peace talks Or the phone call between Putin and Trump today. To be honest, I don't really believe in the diplomatic efforts that are happening right now, not just from Trump and the Americans, but especially from the Europeans.

13:42 There was, for example, a joint demand from the heads of state and government of France, Poland, Germany and the UK for a 30-day ceasefire, which was coordinated with Ukrainian President Zelensky. Putin didn't respond to that just like he now refuses to agree to a ceasefire after the conversation with Trump There is no any results of the call they talk and the result is that Ukraine and Russia need negotiations, okay, everybody knew that they need negotiations so I can't see any results but what we really saw again that Donald Trump prioritizing short-term deals over stability.

14:29 He's talking about earning money. US will earn money. Russia will trade with US. It's so cool. Sometimes I've got a feeling that he don't understand the problem of this war. This particular conversation was pointless. I don't feel that it will bring any results. Personally, I feel peace won't come for now.

14:57 Things can change fast, but my gut says this war will sadly continue and people in Kursen will keep suffering. People in anderen Frontline cities, wie Sumy oder Kharkiv in der Norte und Norte, constantly shelled, will also continue to suffer. People will keep dying. Soldiers will die in a pointless war that serves only the ego of one man in the Kremlin.

15:23 It's total madness, but that's how it is. I'm not sure how this will end. On the other hand, I understand Ukraine. Everyone wants peace, but not at the price of a dictated peace Das bedeutet, dass sie ihre eigenen Land einfach nur weil ein brutaler Diktator in Russland attackiert werden. Rewarding Putin für diese Krieg würde den falschen Wissen zu allen Diktatorsen weltweit.

15:47 Ich hoffe, die Europäische Union zu stehen, unterstützen Ukraine, pressen Putin und vielleicht sogar Trump zu endlich wachsen und sehen, dass Putin nicht der großartige Mann er denkt er ist, Aber ein Krieg, ein Aggressor, responsible für die Deaths von Tens von Tausend, vielleicht sogar Hunderts von Tausend.

16:08 Das war ein sehr Spontaneinens-Espisod, given die current globalen Entwicklungen. Ich hoffe, Sie haben es noch nicht useful. This episode wurde von Alexander Baumeister, ein Journalist von der Funka Media Group radio station. If you like our podcast, please recommend it. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.

16:34 Follow us and share with friends interested in this kind of content. If you have questions, suggestions, or criticism, write us. That's it for today. Thanks. And I'll keep you updated. I'll certainly report more from Ukraine. Take care. See you soon. Ciao, ciao. Ein Podcast von Funke.