An Unlikely Affair: Marry For Money, Pay Forever

0:01 Hi, Amber.

0:02 Hi, Lola.

0:03 Welcome to an unlikely affair. Hello, everybody.

0:10 Welcome to another episode of an unlikely affair. I am very excited about today's episode, though.

0:16 I'm excited too. Anytime you put a woman in front of me who's like just fabulous and talks like pop culture and money is like the best day of my life.

0:25 Okay, guys, you may know I found her on Instagram and then I became literally obsessed. Her name's Haley Sachs. Welcome, aka Miss Dow Jones.

0:35 Thank you so much for having me.

0:36 We're so excited to have you. How did you come up with, is it Miss or Mrs. Dow Jones? It's Mrs. Oh, Mrs. Dow Jones. How did you, like, what made you come up with that little nickname?

0:48 Well, it was sort of that era of Instagram where everyone had a pseudonym. Like, I feel like now everyone's going back to just being like, my name's Haley. And it was about being married to your financial future because I think I always grew up thinking that I needed a man or my dad to do my finances. And then when I became financially literate and in control of my own money, it just really made me feel so empowered and it was something I wanted to spread. And so it's about being married to your financial future because it lets you say no to whatever the fuck you don't want to do.

1:20 Yeah. Right. So does that mean that you do not have a business manager? Like you are over not saying, cause I oversee everything. I'm very in the know, but I do have a business manager and someone who like bops in and does my, what is that? Taxes. Well, that too, but my investments. Are you doing all of that on your own solo? No.

1:45 So I always tell everyone, like you really just need a two to three fund portfolio of index funds and you will become a millionaire. Like you don't need to be the person who's like day trading and doing crypto. Like it's, you want your life to be exciting. You want your clothes to be above average, your relationships, all these things. But when it comes to your money, you want average. And that's like really important to just nail into your head because if you don't just get really comfortable with like an eight to 10% return, which is normal for the stock market, then you start looking for ways to get rich quick. And so I do have people who help me with my finances now just because things have become bigger.

2:30 Right.

2:31 And like with taxes and things like that, you need support. but I always keep an eye on my bottom line.

2:38 Yeah.

2:38 And so I'm very involved in everything, but you don't need that. Like it's, you can have a very simple portfolio and have amazing results and just enjoy your life and watch the new season of Salt Lake City.

2:49 Oh, don't forget. That's a whole episode in itself. If we're two episodes in, I could literally do a thousand podcasts about it. I'm obsessed between the facelifts, the fabulous clothing, rich bitches. I love watching fabulous rich women.

3:04 Yeah, me too.

3:05 I'm going home to watch that, actually.

3:06 And then the realizers of New York, it's like the popcorn ceiling. I'm like, we've got two different spectrums. I'm like, are we on the same network?

3:17 I'm so... Okay, so... But I love the rent.

3:21 It's rent stabilized. I would tell her never to move.

3:24 Yeah.

3:25 I'm like.

3:26 Safe. She's killing it. Crushing.

3:28 Anytime you can get a fixed expense locked in... Like a, you know, a phone bill, you know, any sort of rent or wire, like just any sort of bill that you can get locked in for a long time, do it.

3:43 Really?

3:44 Baby raising that.

3:45 Well, I mean, think about living in LA, people who have like rent controlled apartments. Like I have my dear friend who like crushes it in set design. And his apartment is literally $ 900 a month. He's like, I'm never moving. Even if I get another place, I will never leave this place. Because, I mean, they will jack your shit up.

4:08 Oh, yeah.

4:09 There's a lot of that in New York, right? Oh, it's insane.

4:11 Well, I have a friend in L.A. who doesn't have a washer-dryer, but is like, I will never move from this.

4:19 I know. It's a thought. You have shows of kids. I feel like if you had kids, you'd need the washer-dryer. What does that mean? It's like in the basement? quarters no she's got a laundry mat.

4:28 Yeah one of the like just like not glamorous but whatever she's having to do with the laundry doesn't matter compared to like how much she's saving on the rent and she's you know traveling she's able to like live a really great life because she just puts it towards you know cost of living.

4:43 New yorkers are built different by the way if you told me you have fixed rent It's never going to change. No washer and dryer. You have to go to the laundromat. I'd be like, raise my rent. Raise my fucking rent. In-unit washer and dryer for the love of God.

5:01 It's also once you raise your... There's a whole thing with... So there's a study about. People who make 200K a year are more likely to be in debt than people who make under 70K. Because as you make more money, you increase your cost of living. You're like, oh, well, I got this raise. Might as well move to that apartment with the washer dryer. Might as well, I'm going to start getting my Russian manicures.

5:30 I'm going to start, you know, Going to that, I may have one too.

5:33 I love them, by the way. You're not taking away my Russian manicure.

5:37 But it's like all these things that we, every time that we feel richer, we increase our lifestyle instead of our savings and our investments. And then, you know, you end up with nothing at the end of the day, but you do have nice nails.

5:49 Well, let's talk about girl math. Yeah, I hate girl math. You do. Tell me, explain.

5:56 Just because I think it doesn't need to be gendered. I think that it really just makes it seem like we're dumb bitches who can't handle our money. And already the financial services industry is so... created for men and makes us feel a little spooked by it because they use all this jargon and it feels like, makes us feel like we can't trust ourselves, you know? And I just think that whenever you have to do anything to, like, pull wool over your eyes, sort of, with money, like, where you're tricking yourself, like, girl, I'm not this all about tricking yourself. Oh, I returned this thing so I can afford that. No, you just return that thing and then let's, like, figure out if you can afford that.

6:33 You know, it's not, like, we don't have to. Do all of these mental games.

6:39 I don't know.

6:39 You're like, I love girl math.

6:40 Your face is like, it is my religion. It is my religion.

6:45 No, no, it's not my religion, but what I was just thinking, that look that I gave you, or like that you read.

6:51 Yeah, I was like, okay, you good girl?

6:53 Well, I literally just moved back from Montana. I stopped my place in Montana, but the cost of living here is so significant and just different.

7:04 For one, there's no sales tax. Oh, hell yeah. So that makes everything so. I'm like, what do you mean? It's $ 85 for dinner and that's it? I know.

7:12 My friend has a house in Montana and she sends all of her packages there.

7:16 Yes.

7:16 To heaven.

7:17 And I'm like, can I send mine?

7:18 I'm like thinking all of my Amazon returns.

7:21 So I'm moving in this house and I'm thinking of all the Amazon stuff that I bought that like I have to return. I'm like, okay, well, if I return that, then I get to buy that.

7:28 And just exactly what you were just saying. Like, I'm rationalizing.

7:32 Because you already spent the money, so, like, it's gone already.

7:35 Right. I know.

7:36 Oh, gosh.

7:37 Okay. I'm stressing.

7:40 Let's talk about, first of all, I want to know a little bit more about you. I think for the audience, I want them to understand your background.

7:46 Yeah.

7:47 And what you do on a day-to-day besides, like.

7:50 I love her Instagram.

7:53 It's so nice. You're an inspiration to me.

7:56 You guys are an inspiration to me.

7:58 I need you in my algorithm all day, every day. It's so nice. But you're from New York. Yes.

8:04 Born and bred New Yorker. Grew up on the Upper East Side. Grew up with a dad who worked on Wall Street. I'm on Park Avenue. Very Gossip Girl vibes.

8:16 Yes.

8:17 Surrounded by money, but no one ever explained it to me or like, it was clear that that was the driving force of what was happening around me. Cause like, especially New York is so like, you know, it just really, you feel it there, the financial edge. But I just had no confidence or education around it. And I wanted to be a comedian. So I, you know, graduated college and I got a job with Lorne Michaels. I was, you know, this is, I'm skipping a lot of parts of the story. It was not that easy. It took a long time to get there, but it was my first full-time job. Because, you know, when you're a struggling comedian, you're doing improv, you're doing standup. I was a nanny.

9:00 I worked at a Pilates studio. I was like, you know, whatever you needed me to do at an hourly rate, I would do it. And then the cash was like just under my mattress.

9:08 Was that like, were you, did your dad, Push you to go get a job? Or did you have like the silver spoon treatment?

9:18 And I definitely had silver spoon in terms of rent, but the rent was quite low.

9:21 Like I will not.

9:22 Like I and I would be an asshole to complain about having any sort of leg up. But I think that something that I've noticed that is sort of universal is whenever you are living off of money that's not yours, your life is not yours. So that could be you're borrowing money from the government, you're in debt or, you know, from bank or whatever, or you're with a partner who's paying for everything. And then you're reliant on that. You're not free. And so I was not free. I might've had, you know, my $ 1, 500 rent paid for, but it came with so many strings attached.

9:54 Totally.

9:54 You know, like I remember my, I loved my grandpa, but like he was so sick and like, I would like, you know, I was the one who had to like go get him from the hospital and like do all of this like you know I was in my early 20s like doing so much stuff for which was nice I liked the time with him but also it was like definitely because in a certain way I was like on the payroll like there was there was a certain way.

10:15 I had to do things for them to get what I needed in return. Nothing's free. The most expensive thing you'll ever do is marry for money. That's what people say.

10:24 Well, Bethany Franco says, marry for money, you'll pay for the rest of your life. Exactly. Amen. That rings so true. So you, you're a hustler at this point in time. I definitely was.

10:35 Silver spooned, but I was, but, and I was looking, yeah, but I needed to get, yeah, they were pressuring me to get a job. I think more for clout than for like finance. Like there was like, what are you doing with your life? Like, I think it's scary to have a kid who's like, Yeah, like I'm working the front desk at this exercise studio. They've spent like hundreds of thousands of dollars on your college education. And you're literally, I worked at David Letterman. That was my first job.

11:01 That's sick. That's great. So fun.

11:03 But part, I was a page. And so part of it was to be in Times Square. And to try and get people, tourists, to come to the show to.

11:12 Be in the audience. So did you hand out, like, tickets? Oh, I love those people. I'm like, yes! Yes.

11:17 But my mom was, like, with her theater group going to play and, like, saw me in Times Square and was like, oof.

11:23 Like, that's my girl! Question mark!

11:25 Like, it was, like, a dark moment of being like, so what's the plan here?

11:30 Like, we good? So they were relieved.

11:34 I was relieved. But I also was so excited and nervous because... you know, it's a dream come true to get any sort of break in the creative industry and in the comedy world. I mean, now it's everyone is doing it online, but it was a different time. You still needed the gates of Hollywood to be unlocked for you in that moment. And so it was a big moment.

11:54 And then on the first day they were asking about, you know, health insurance and, 401k contributions and things that I'd never been taught and that I basically just ignored up until that point. And I was so embarrassed, I remember, because I didn't want them to think that they had hired the wrong person. I was so excited to have this job and I just felt like such an idiot that I had no financial literacy and also not confident in answering the questions. So I sort of skirted around it And was like, for sure, 401k. Like, that's not a road race. That's something I know about. And then went home literally that night and went online to try to learn about those, you know, what was going on so I could answer the next day. And I remember

12:48 going on YouTube and it was either these guys who really looked like they had never been through puberty or like mansplaining investment terms. I was so bored and like, just like hated them and couldn't understand, comprehend. Or it was advice for women that was just all about deprivation. Like there was an article about re-washing your paper towels.

13:14 So I was like, this is the financial education of our time. I either have to absolutely deprive myself and my life in order to be in control of my money, or I have to listen to these guys who I would never want to hang out with, let alone be taught by.

13:31 Yeah.

13:33 And so I was like, okay, but I do really need to learn because I don't want to be an idiot at work. And so I, that night was like learning about the 401ks and versus Roth IRAs and all this stuff. And I was starting to just sort of teach myself using pop culture because I've always been obsessed with celebrities. So I was like, okay, 401k is sort of like Kim, but the Roth IRA is like Kylie because it's newer. And like, you know, the 401k, you get robbed now because they take the money out of your paycheck and Kim got robbed in Paris. And so it was clicking for me. I was like, okay, the analogies are working.

14:07 Oh my God, I love this. I love this too.

14:10 She should teach a course in high school to teach like young.

14:13 I'm going to teach at Harvard.

14:14 I'm going to teach at Harvard.

14:15 You're great. Yeah. They had like an elective class for us that you know how you had to have like one elective to be a credit and it could be whatever you wanted. And I wish I paid attention in school in general, like, at all. I can't even believe, like, I'm here saying that, like, I graduated from high school. Like, that's so crazy to me. But I did take one of those courses, and they had, like, where you would sit and invest and watch it as if you were, like— Oh, that's so cool. A trader. Like a stimulator. Yes. That's sick. And— I remember actually doing pretty well and finding it fun.

14:50 But I'm telling you, the moment that I started learning about finances and thinking like, wow, I really need to get my shit together. I had started on a show called Vanderpump Rules. I was finally starting to make actual real money that was like, oh, I can like afford shit, right? I go to Tarzana. I find this like amazing house and I'm ready to fucking buy it, right? It's like, 875,000. Wow.

15:20 So I have a real estate agent like put in the offer and then he sends me all these forms and I'm like, tax returns. Yeah. The fuck? Yeah.

15:32 I think I.

15:32 Forgot to do a lot of shit. So I called my dad and he's like, what do you mean? Yeah. I'm like, you haven't been doing my taxes. He's like, you don't live in Utah anymore. How would I be doing your taxes? Thank God that my manager at the time set me up with a business manager. And- a fantastic, um, a fantastic lawyer. And that changed everything for me. They are still a part of my team today. Two men who have had my back, have never tried to like mansplain or treat me like I'm an idiot, like wholeheartedly believe in me and what I'm doing. And they have me on every call. They're like, this isn't like, yes, I could do this for you and explain to you later, but you need to be on the call to learn

16:13 about these things. It's the best thing that ever happened to me.

16:17 That's so great. I love that. And also what I think is interesting too with the Vanderpump finances is I correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of you guys did buy real estate and it was like successful. It seems like a lot of the cast members bought real estate early on.

16:31 And yeah, that was like everyone's first big purchase. And what's so wild is back then they were making a significant, I came in season four. So they had three seasons under their belt. But back then that real estate was like, These homes are worth like three now. That's what I'm saying.

16:49 They've had like crazy appreciation.

16:51 Yeah.

16:51 So amazing.

16:52 So how old were you when you started really diving in?

16:56 Oh, yeah. So then I.

16:57 So, okay. So then I started to make content about it because I was like... fame whore and also like I my whole life had been like making creative stuff and also when I was a comedian I didn't really love talking about myself and so this was awesome because it gave me something to talk about outside of myself that could help people which really clicked for me I was like this is it I feel so good doing this.

17:21 Like it's fun. I feel creative.

17:23 I'm learning.

17:24 Everyone's learning. But like, I didn't, I was never the, I'd ever want to be the comedian. Like I, I even now I have a lot of boundaries of what I share. And so I think that that's always just sort of been a little bit in me. And so it's nice to be able to have a voice, but not have to make it so much about myself and just make it about helping people. So I was around 25.

17:44 Oh, wow. You were a baby. That's young. Yeah, 25, 26. Yeah.

17:47 That's, I would, that's young. No, I mean, I always think about it in terms of year. I guess I'm 35 now. So it was like around 2017-ish.

17:58 Okay. Yeah.

17:59 And then, oh, and then I got laid off from that job. And so, by the way, at that job, I was so anxious and intense.

18:05 Yes.

18:06 Like, I don't even think I was funny because I was, like, so, like, oh, my God. Like, I can't believe they chose me. Like, I was, like, first one in the office. I'd be, like, first one in is the hottest. I'd be, like, 5 a.m. So it was a job in comedy. Like, guys are showing up, like, literally in, like— 11 a.m. Yeah, like, ugly t-shirts, like, just being, like— what's up? Like haven't showered in four days.

18:25 And I was like, yes, sir.

18:26 Like in a blazer, like way too intense. So it was honestly a good thing that I got laid off because I don't think mental health wise, it was the best.

18:35 You are so funny to me.

18:39 But then I got laid off and I was like, fuck. I was babysitting before that for a little kid named Winthrop on the Upper East Side.

18:45 He was a brat. Winthrop? Winthrop? What a fucking name. I know. Holy shit. What's Winthrop doing now? Oh, he's gay.

18:55 He had me and then my friend Chloe, who was also a comedian and has nannies and would literally come out of his mom's room with her heels on.

19:03 She was never home. How cute. Yeah, he was. And we had a little deal. How cute. So cute.

19:10 But I was stressed when I got laid off where I was like, am I going to have to go back to Winthrop?

19:14 Like, holy shit.

19:16 Like, isn't it like, oh, like I got.

19:17 Like a little bit of momentum here. Like, am I screwed? My life ends at Winthrop.

19:23 But then I was like, then I, there was a guy who was, had been at the Laura Michaels job who had switched jobs to a different, to Fuse. And I'm not like a music person. I'm so just like, whatever the pop charts say, I'm going to listen to. But I was like their go-to girl to write all the music things for a year for all, like there would be, you know, all the cool rappers and this and that. And I'd write them little like internet sketches.

19:47 And so I was doing that. And then I, also had time while I was doing that to build Mrs. Dow Jones and I was fanatic about it where I was like okay every day I'm gonna post and I'm doing this um and then a year later I got in the New York Times.

20:01 That's incredible and then.

20:03 It was the pandemic which was a really good time because that.

20:08 Everyone was online and everyone was talking about money to you to tell them what the fuck to do and make them laugh a little, probably a lot. If you're me, I'm cackling, not at you with you. No, you're so funny. But, uh, yeah.

20:27 And so then it just sort of went from there. And then, you know, as things go, it like just builds and builds, which has been amazing and you develop it and you grow and all those things.

20:45 Can we talk about fashion for a second? What a switch. I love it.

20:51 We have to because I'm in this like, okay, I'm 38 now and I feel like I'm still like there's times where I'm just like wearing my vans and just jeans and whatever. And then other times like I want to look fucking great, but then the stuff I want to buy is so expensive. And I'm like, that's I feel like that's so irresponsible of me to do that when I have two kids. They need tutors. College is happening in a couple years for my oldest one.

21:20 And I just like, I don't know.

21:22 So will you please help me and the listeners and you.

21:27 I love this.

21:28 About what to buy. You see those cute pair of Chanel flats.

21:33 Do I buy them? Do I not? Okay, go.

21:35 Okay, well, first of all, I will say that I, women are taught so much to have shame about our fine, like about what we spend on. Like men, they're like, good job, you sports bet in, like you go king. And then for women, it's like, oh shit, like you're going to buy the avocado toast.

21:52 Like, oh, like, yeah. The rumors are true.

21:56 You're an idiot. And so we need to reframe that because you're allowed to spend money on yourself.

22:01 Thank you. Yes. And actually all.

22:04 The data shows that if you look good and you wear makeup, you make more money. So it's an investment in yourself.

22:11 Okay. Well, that changes everything. I should start pulling my shit together more.

22:16 You guys look amazing, but it's like, you have to do it, first of all. I will say, I think it's really... I just did... It was just Fashion Week, right? And it's so crazy with Fashion Week because it'll be like. The big designer labels, like Burberry or Loewe or whatever, they'll put out a collection and the collections will both have crop trench coats in them. And then you'll see...

22:49 There's like 10 articles, like Elite Daily, six reasons you need the crop trench coat this fall. The six pieces you can't live without in 2026. And it's all the crop trench coat. You've never even thought about a crop trench coat. Or it's even like a color. It's like, oh, fuck, now I have to change it.

23:06 To brown or butter yellow.

23:09 The color that you can't, you know, go jump off a cliff if you're not wearing this one.

23:14 Yes. Whatever.

23:15 And then you go on your Instagram page. And all of the influencers are wearing it. So you're scrolling and it's repeating, showing it to you. And the human brain, when it sees repetition, it recognizes it. It recognizes a pattern. And so even if you not, not, even if inherently you wouldn't have wanted the crop trench coat or the butter yellow, you are being conditioned to want it. And then what's even crazier is that brands like Lulu's and Zara use AI to.

23:44 Scan all of that.

23:46 And then they release their version of a crop trench coat, not for the $ 2, 000 that the Burberry one would be, but for $ 80, which makes you feel like, oh, I'm getting a deal on this because it was 2000 and I'm so smart. I found the $ 80 one.

23:59 And then you buy it.

24:01 But then all the data shows that you only ever wear the fast fashion piece seven times. So- The best thing that you can do is not deprive yourself from looking good. It's to just basically try and like figure out your own personal style, not in regards to trends, because the more that you play into trends, the more that you're going to just fall victim to that pernicious.

24:23 And spend more money. Spend more money.

24:24 You're never going to wear it. Right. I think it all comes back to budgeting, like knowing how much you can spend. Like I have a friend who works at Google and she is really successful and And I was like, you should actually spend more on clothes. And she was shocked, but I went through her finances with her, but I was like, and I was like, yeah, you could spend more, like buy that Max Mara coat. Like you're going to wear it for the next 12 years. It looks amazing.

24:48 You are a boss. It's going to make you feel great when you walk into every room and like you should do it. And I really believe in that, like being able to, but you have to be able, you shouldn't be financing these things. It shouldn't be that you're buy now pay latering that coat or the crop trench or the butter yellow. And you need to make sure the biggest way that people get, the only way that you're going to become a future rich person, which is my book that we're here to promote that I have it once and i didn't even bring a copy genius fucking yeah you know and it's like honestly listen to the audiobook you'll have yourself a giggle but um i love audiobooks that's so.

25:23 I always say i'm reading audiobooks and she laughs at me you're not reading an audiobook you're listening to an i'm.

25:28 Like i read an article it's just i watched a tiktok That's what I do too.

25:32 I love it.

25:34 I'm like, oh, I was reading this crazy thing.

25:37 In the New York Post as I'm scanning the New York Post online.

25:41 Take it in my veins every morning. It's a little shot.

25:44 I love it.

25:46 And Wordle.

25:46 Sorry.

25:47 Oh, I don't do Wordle. obsessed. I should get in on that.

25:51 Oh, but okay.

25:51 So yeah, you need to know what you can afford. And so the only way that you're going to grow wealth is if you have money left over at the end of every month, which for Americans is very hard because we're just always in the cycle of debt.

26:01 But I recall that.

26:02 In the book action money, because that's money that you can take action with to improve your finances. So you might be in the place where you're starting to fund your emergency fund, which is the first step in your financial journey. Maybe you're using your action money to pay off your high interest rate debt. Maybe we're using it to max out your Roth IRA or to invest. Whatever it is that our next financial goal is. And I make these really clear in the book. So if you're like, I don't know what my financial goal is. I am a financial dominatrix. I will tell you what it is.

26:33 Read the book. It's all there. But as long as you can afford to have money left over to take action with, you can spend money on yourself. But I think, you know, when you're a single mom and you're, I don't know the finances with, if you like, if it is just one income stream for your kids or like if there's anyone else who's contributing, but you have to be really careful about also making sure that you're putting your own oxygen mask on first, because if you don't take the time to put money away for your future, your retirement, your healthcare, you know, the average American spends over 300K on healthcare after when they're older and like in retirement, just because it's like, fucked up system then

27:16 your kids are going to have to pay for that and then they're not going to be able to put money towards their futures and then their kids are going to have to pay for them and instead of creating a cycle of generational wealth we create a cycle of basically generational debt so i think that's really hard but really important too.

27:35 I want to know what advice you would give to a woman who is in just like a very traditional marriage. She doesn't work. Oof. Her work doesn't provide a paycheck because— Women work. Like, stay-at-home moms have the hardest job on the planet. Oh, my God.

27:53 I really couldn't stand by that more. I'm like, I could not do it.

27:57 It's brutal. I know. So my question is, that woman, she's married to a man who brings in most of the dough. Let's just say one day they don't work out. How is this woman— Because I always say, if a man doesn't want to pay you, he'll make damn sure he's not going to pay you. He will have all the attorney's fees— racking up just to ensure that you don't get a dime.

28:21 So funny, there was just an amazing actual article, not a TikTok, in New York Mag about this where- Like there used to be a lot more protections for women in those situations, but they sort of took them away because it was like, well, what if the man's staying home and all this stuff? But it's really hurt women who go through divorces where they're actually, you know, get really financially screwed. So I don't know. I was just reading that. It's making me upset.

28:48 Yeah.

28:49 I think the number one thing is, A, you need to, while you're in the marriage, if you're not earning, you need to make sure that your name is on everything and that you understand the finances. So like your name should be on the house if you have a house. Your partner can open you something called a spousal IRA, which is a retirement account that's tax advantaged that you don't need to have earned income to contribute to. That's important.

29:14 Mm-hmm.

29:14 Make sure that you're on all the investment accounts and that you are, that it's a conversation between the two of you. Because I think that for, you know, a lot of women, you're working so hard at home, right? Like you're doing the housework and you're making sure there's food and you're signing up for soccer and making sure that they have their tutors and this and that. And so if you have a partner who says, hey, guess what?

29:37 I'll take one thing off your plate and it's the money.

29:39 Go. bless you. Thank you so much.

29:41 I don't want to do the money. I already have 18 other million things I have to do today. Don't ever say yes to that. Let them do anything else. Let them sign up for the soccer. Let them go to Target, whatever the hell it is. Let them do anything else, but never give up your seat at the financial table. That's the biggest thing.

30:02 It's really, really, really important. Yeah. And obviously a prenup. Yeah. Prenups are so important.

30:09 I would say more than anything to let you understand how the other person thinks about money. Like there was, I got a lot of crazy, not crazy, but like fun, crazy emails from people about their personal finance situations. Cause I do a segment called financial secrets and which is really tea.

30:26 It's really fun. I love them.

30:30 And so last week we got one from a woman who was engaged and in the prenup conversation, the, her fiance wanted to put, and she wants like three kids want to put in the prenup that she has to keep working. Oh, I saw this.

30:45 Oh, yeah. It's crazy.

30:46 Isn't that so crazy? And so it's like, it's not that she was necessarily didn't want to work. It was just like, why are you making it a thing where I have to work? You like, you know, what does that say about how you value household labor? How does that like, it just like tells you so much about someone's psychology and like how they view your partnership.

31:04 Yes.

31:05 That's, that's, I love prenups for like the legal protections and whatever, but I mostly love it because it's, for most people, you don't have the financial conversations with your partner. And then that's like a moment where you do, you know, who did a Kelly Ben Simone from Real Housewives. She remembers she was on ultimate girls trip and she was obsessed with that guy.

31:25 She's like, look, he's writing me love letters. Like we're engaged.

31:28 Like, oh, isn't everyone jealous? Like, my life rocks. And we were like, okay, Kelly, like, shut up. Like, scary island vibes. And then she pulled the whole relationship. She dumped him because they were doing the prenup and he didn't want one.

31:42 Yep. I do remember this.

31:44 I thought that was so cool of her. Like, I was obsessed because, you know, the hardest thing, it's almost easy to gather the information about someone, but it's hard to act. Especially when you're a woman and you think, oh, like, clock's.

31:56 Ticking, perimetopause, all this shit.

31:58 We got to get our first facelift at 50, 45, maybe 35.

32:02 And if you want a good one, it's going to run you 100K. Yeah, like, there's just so much pressure.

32:07 We feel like there's such scarcity and that we have to, you know, if we finally do meet a man who wants to marry us, even if he's not perfect, we should just do it. And it's like, don't do it. Let's actually get the data and then use the data. Yeah, pause. That's the hardest thing though. I find it really, like that's the hardest thing for people. Like they want to just keep going.

32:30 Well, I think you have to go. It'll be different for them. Yeah. We always think we're going to be different. Yes. Always. We're not. I think you have to go.

32:38 Through like a really difficult divorce or breakup. And I think in our situation, because we share the same ex, it's just, you just move differently, like, with relationships. And the older I get, the more I'm like, it's scary.

33:03 How do you guys deal with money now when you date? Or do you not date?

33:07 No. She dates more so than I do. I was not married to our ex, so... it was just kind of a different situation. And, um, again, I got my business manager and that team in order and I have been on a show and just kind of let, you know, my penny stack when I was living with our ex, um, you had more financial freedom. I had, yes. Like I lived in his home, like his name was on it.

33:37 There was something telling me that I just didn't want any, I didn't want my name on anything that was attached to his. And I can't even say that there was a reason why. I just didn't. I wanted him to remain separate from me. And thank God, like we never ended up getting married. And thank God I didn't have my name on anything. But I think when I go into dating men, their financial situation is kind of the last thing on my mind. There are two things that like you do not fuck with when it comes to me.

34:07 And it's like my family and my money, because I've worked really hard to make sure that I can, you know, provide for my family. So if a man came in and he was like, Hey baby, can I have like, you could lay the best pipe in the world. You asked to borrow money from me. Get the fuck out. That's a red flag.

34:26 How do you feel about that? If they have the same amount as like, okay, like I have a friend who has a lot of financial trauma and she like doesn't make that much money, but we, and so we, but we talk about money all the time. Cause I'm just like, so Jones always talk about money and she's in a horrible relationship. I'm dying for her to get out of where she may hit the ball. The guy makes like three X her amount, but always wants to split everything.

34:48 Oh, but what about if you.

34:51 Made the same amount of someone, would you split with them? Like, I think that if you guys make the same amount or, like, I make a lot of money and I, like, like to live in a fancy way. Like, with travel, I want to travel nice.

35:04 Same. And I have.

35:07 Dated people who, even if they make the same amount as me, they just, I feel like guys, like, don't care as much about, like, a nice travel.

35:15 I don't know.

35:16 Like, they're, like. I just see the guys who are like, whatever, like, we'll sit in the back of the plane.

35:22 Red flag. Yeah.

35:23 And like, we'll like, whatever, like, oh, the hotel will book at last minute and whatever. And I'm like, no, like we, I need this to be a great experience. Cause like I work so hard and this is more than anything.

35:33 Time is money.

35:33 So I'm going to take the time to go on a vacation. I need this to be a great vacation. And so I'll pay to stay at a nicer place. Like, what do you think about when you put. your money towards, like, I always think that the person who wants to do the fancier thing should just pay for the fancy thing because it might not be aligned with the other person's values and it's not fair to ask someone to spend money in a way that they don't want to.

35:53 It doesn't sound like it's a good match if that's the case. It sounds like down the line that's going to be a huge problem.

35:58 I think if I'm in a situation where the two of us are making the same amount of money and he wanted to, like, he wanted to go somewhere fabulous and I needed to pay for myself and he was paying for himself.

36:07 Oh, no, not you.

36:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah. How would you feel about that? I'm down. I don't need you to Pay for my stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now if I'm dating someone and I want to go on a vacation, I'm certainly not paying for him. And I've got the vibe check that you most likely cannot stay where I would like to stay. Therefore, we're not going and I'll catch you on the flip. Yeah, love that. Yeah.

36:29 How do you feel about it? I think that....

36:34 If you want to do something nicer than what the other person can afford, you should never put the financial obligation on the other person. That's unfair, but you can invite them and that's okay.

36:46 Yeah.

36:46 And I also think that it's very, we're in a very different era, girls. Like we're the first generation of women who really have like financial freedom and can like, you know, proudly own being like single moms and make our own decisions and all these like amazing things. Like we couldn't have our own credit cards till 1974. It's fucking wild.

37:05 It's insane. So I don't know.

37:07 I just sort of feel like I'll do whatever the fuck I want. And if I want to bring the guy there to like, Lay some pipe. And, like, I'm not going to pay for, like, the meals and shit. But, like, if I'm getting a hotel room, like, you can come.

37:16 You can come. Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not paying for your flight. I just recently got comfortable. Yeah, hotel room I'm totally fine with. I just recently got comfortable with men... paying for anything. Because there was a very, thanks to Amber, there was like a long period of time where I felt like if a man was paying for anything, he had, and this was all mental, right?

37:40 It's not factual. That he had some type of ownership over me. He was expecting something from me and I don't want anyone to ever expect anything from me.

37:50 Except your kids.

37:52 Exactly. My children. And I've started to get over that Like I was asked on a date and I'm like, this is so, I want to go. This will be good for me. But like the thought of a man paying for my dinner, like what the fuck do you want to pay for my dinner for? Are you looking for a blow job after the dinner? Cause that's not fucking happening. And it's like, bro, he just wants to like enjoy your company. Calm down. That's so funny. I would never pay for dinner. I don't know.

38:26 So weird. Like, I'm, like, so much more down to, like, pay for a nice... Like, I'm going skiing with my boyfriend, and we're going to Japan.

38:33 Oh, my God. You live such a fun life.

38:35 It's really fun, but we're... And he's not, like, stingy at all, but he's just, like, so busy and way more chill about, like, travel, like, booking stuff. And I'm obviously, like, no, I'm going all the way there. I want to, like... We're going in December and it's October. Like we need to book this soon. And so I'm like, yeah, I booked the hotel. That was why I was secretly asking you guys. I was like, is that weird? No, it's fine.

38:58 I'm like happy to do it.

39:00 Well, that sounds like. What's your sign?

39:02 I'm a Cancer.

39:03 Oh. I'm a Cancer. Are you Cancer? Yeah. On what date? On the 10th. Oh my God. I love it. I love a Cancer. Yeah. You what? I love a Cancer. And we love you.

39:13 Yeah.

39:13 I was just curious. Wait, wait. Will you say what you do in day to day? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amber's dating life is so interesting to me. Wait, in terms of what? Finances.

39:23 In terms of like the finances stuff.

39:25 Well, I'm not living with anyone. No, but like what about traveling? Oh, I'm not paying for anything.

39:31 Yeah, yeah, not paying.

39:32 No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Sorry.

39:34 Do you think that's– did you used to be more down to be 50-50 and now because of everything that's happened?

39:41 No.

39:41 You've always been.

39:42 If you're asking me to leave my children– And my bedroom, which I love.

39:47 I love my bedroom.

39:48 I love my bedroom. It must be a cancer thing. Yeah, no, it is. And then, no, I'm not paying.

39:54 Like, I will, if we go downstairs and we get a coffee or, like, we're on vacation, like, I'll offer.

40:00 But, like, a lot of times, like, I— Yeah, coffee or an Uber. Yeah, yeah, I got it. I got it. No big deal.

40:05 I got it.

40:06 But, like, if we're going on, like, a nice vacation— I'm not pulling out my credit card. You tend to just attract men, though, that really want to take care of you. And I don't mean that in a negative sense. No, there's a healthy... They really want to come in and be the man. That's cool. They want her to be independent and do her thing. But when it comes to you and I, I've got you. Yeah. I attract... The fucking losers. But they lay good pipe, girls. The best dick of your life. I know. You can't be sure of anything else. They gotta do one thing right. You gotta do something right.

40:42 I read something about dating a single mom that I loved where it was like the guy offered to pay for the babysitter. And I was just like, you should do that.

40:50 If you ask how to sing along. We had this, we had this whole thing. Oh, really? On the podcast. Oh, I didn't know that. She's all for it. Yes, we talked about this. Listen, it's not. I think it's such a, like a chivalrous gesture. Again, it tells me a lot about them. They're being. It's thoughtful. It's thoughtful. Yeah. And it's not, I'm not going to take the money.

41:05 No, it's just so nice.

41:06 But it's the thought that really freaking.

41:08 It's so nice.

41:09 Counts.

41:10 I was like, damn. Yeah, that's so nice.

41:12 Yeah. Okay, a Birkin or... We know this answer. Brokerage account.

41:26 Brokerage account.

41:28 Botox or Bitcoin? Botox. I want to get your take on Bitcoin, by the way.

41:34 It doesn't work on me, but I still get it every time I cross my fingers.

41:38 Ooh, I like this one. Girl's trip or designer bag? Girl always experiences. Oh, I've never been on a girl's trip.

41:44 Let's go, the three of us.

41:45 Oh, Mexico. Yes, live it up. I love a good Mexico.

41:49 I love Mexico. I don't think there's, like, Europe can go fuck itself. Mexico is worth that.

41:53 Oh, that's worth that. A hundred percent.

41:54 We're in Mexico. Like at Hotel Asensi, I love.

41:57 Where is that? Which part?

41:58 It's sort of near Tulum, but it's like the coolest place.

42:01 I've heard of this.

42:02 There's a private cenote. So you can like literally like swim in this crazy.

42:05 Let's fucking go there, please. Okay, blowout or DIY? Blowout. Ugh, love a good blowout. You remember when Dry Bar was like the shit? I don't like going places. I need someone to come to me. I'm not leaving the house for you to touch my hair.

42:19 I'm sorry. But also in LA, you guys are so lucky because you have such good glam.

42:23 We do?

42:23 It's on a different level than New York, yeah.

42:25 Well, it's because New Yorkers are, like, effortlessly chic. They're like, I've got French girl makeup. I'm like, you should have, like, Kim Kardashian makeup. I know. Get the short, get the lips. Get the lips. Get the short, get the lips. I love that. You guys have such cool lips.

42:41 I'm like, I need them.

42:42 No, you don't. They look so good. Really? I love New York style. You guys look so effortlessly cool. They're so juicy, juicy, though. They're so fake, fake, fake. I want to give both of you a kiss. I know. I know.

42:51 Like, that's why you're getting all these dates, because guys are just wanting to smooch, smooch, smooch.

42:55 Well, she's getting dates. I'm getting people asking me to suck it or fuck it. And I'm like, what are you bringing to the table?

43:01 Yeah, but maybe you have, like, sort of, like, that sexy energy, though.

43:04 100%.

43:04 Someone wants to, like, choke you a little.

43:06 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let me spank you, pull my hair. Yeah. Oh, my God. I have a new position I have to tell you about.

43:13 So guys are like, okay, she's wife.

43:15 Yeah. And Lala's whore.

43:17 Just kidding.

43:17 I'm just kidding. I'm totally fucking around. Erewhon every day or retire early? That's funny. I don't know. I sort of would say Erewhon every day. I love Erewhon. Yeah, live your life.

43:29 And it's healthy, and you're going to live longer if you eat it.

43:32 Uber Black or Walking Heels? Fuck that. Uber Black. Uber Black all day. Of course. I'm not walking anywhere. That's why I chose L.A. I need drivable. When I see people walking in L.A., I'm like, get in your car. What are you doing? It's unsafe in these streets. Okay. Man with money but no personality or broke but hilarious? Yes. Oof.

43:53 That's actually so hard. Because I've done the broke but hilarious. And it is just really, it becomes difficult over time. Because like you all, like I, like yes, I'm going to pay for that hotel. But like my boyfriend is, like makes a lot of money. Like it's like he, like it's like it's not like.

44:09 By the way, that's the movie. And I need like.

44:11 Sexy career guy. Because I'm so driven. Like I can't be with like a.

44:15 No.

44:15 I dated a guy who lived in Bushwick who literally, I went to buy, went to the bodega and I got a Pellegrino.

44:20 Yeah.

44:20 And he thought he was going to get a rash or something. If he had a sip of it, he was going to end up wanting a House of the Hamptons.

44:25 Why? Why? It was so fancy for him. Because it was like, yeah. You don't want to pay $ 9 for one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:30 So I did the broke funny guys for so long. I did the comedians. But no personality I couldn't do. I think I would stay single.

44:36 Yeah, I think so too.

44:37 The broke but hilarious, that's the movie I want to watch. I want to watch someone else that falls in love. That's like a good 90s movie.

44:44 I think we do.

44:45 We stay single. And we are in our bedroom until we meet someone who's hilarious but also has a good job.

44:52 Yeah, and loves that I'm in my bedroom all day. Yeah, and wants to be better with us.

44:55 Understands that that's an important part of our life.

44:58 It's everything. It is. It really is. Rich boyfriend or rich best friend? Um... Rich boyfriend.

45:04 Yeah, rich boyfriend.

45:05 I think so too. Because I'm like rich best friend.

45:07 I'm like, are they going to pay for you? Like maybe not.

45:10 No. Yeah. And if the friendship goes south, they'll find ways to like fuck with you. Whereas like your rich boyfriend is probably going to move on to some young hot thing and forget about you.

45:19 We also can bring best friend to rich boyfriend. Totally. Might need like a group of girls.

45:24 Yeah. So fun. Facial or fancy dinner?

45:29 I love dinner, but I don't care about fancy like Michelin, but I just like anytime I can have dinner with my friends and like have like martini and like some fun appetizer that you like pretend you didn't know was fried, but it is fried.

45:42 That's my favorite thing. You're like, what?

45:45 Yeah.

45:45 Okay.

45:45 I'm having it though.

45:47 I want to end it on finish this sentence. I will always spend too much on my dog. Oh.

45:57 Yeah.

45:58 You probably feel the same way with your kids.

46:00 No. Oh, yeah. I'll fuck it up. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring the party planner for your birthday. What do you want, baby? What do you want?

46:08 As long as it's a rich boyfriend for her kids.

46:11 When it's my birthday, I ask my kids, what do you want to do for mom's birthday? The last year, I spent it at America's Got Talent because my now five-year-old is obsessed. And this year, I spent it... At Sportsman's Lodge where they were putting on like a kid's show with a bubble machine and stuff. That's great. You were there, Amber. Yeah. Wasn't it lit? It was so lit.

46:32 Wait, so are your kids related?

46:34 Half siblings, yeah. That's so cute. I know. That's the most special friendship. Yeah. You guys were really doing it right. I was married and then she was the mistress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was the wife. And then this happened and we have a beautiful blended family.

46:48 It really is.

46:50 So at this point, they're basically full siblings because we're one person.

46:53 Yeah, do you guys raise them together?

46:55 Yeah, our kids are at school together. We do drop off in the morning, pick up. So cute. We see each other at the bus stop. So nice. Yeah, it's really cute and sweet. It does. It really does. It does take a village. Yeah, I know. No, we're very happy and excited and so grateful that you made time while you're here in LA. Oh my gosh. Well, I'm so excited to be here. Yes, thank you so much. Well, that was one of my most favorite conversations ever. She is So funny. She's so funny. She kind of reminds me of Sarah Silverman a little bit. She's got something that I— it takes, like, a very specific person to make me cackle my ass off at just, like, just talking.

47:33 I'm like, you're funny. I learned a lot. I'm into her. I— I think that I am going to have to find someone to unfollow so that I can follow her. Anyway, let's not get into the way that my mind works. Anyway, thank you guys for listening to another episode of An Unlikely Affair. We're going to catch you next week. Love you. Bye. Bye.